Close but a couple of other things happened as well:
- he was at approximately 65% health when the first CoS daggers hit
- he actually dodged the Shadow Strike so he didn't get dazed
- as he summoned his bowling ball the Rogue pops lurkers (you can hear it as the ball lands) and the Rogue briefly appears in front of him so this was taken post patch (mistake by the rogue)
- first impact lands and doesn't break stealth coz of lurkers but lurkers expires shortly after hence bait and switch
- couple more CoS and finish with second Impact.
So the rogue was forced to pretty well blow everything to kill a half-dead CW. On the other hand the GFs take him apart a few times from full health and it's the Rogue that needs the nerf... Now I really don't understand where apac is coming from.
Thanks for correcting me and giving me an idea. Lurker's Assault is why the rogue did not break stealth with impact shot. I missed the sound of LA. I agree that his own video shows he really has no reason to complain about TRs. He is just biased against them and wants them nerfed more even if it means all the other classes get nerfed as well. His own video and thread makes him look like a fool who whines because he simply wants to whine. This type of player is even worse than the ones that need to learn to play because they want to destroy the game for everyone else without even having a valid reason.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
I'm a cw, I play against top rogues daily (In lemonade stand, we do premades vs each other and there are no weak players and try playing with someone like foosoo targetting you repeatedly) superstealth rogues are my kryptonite however I will beat them since the last patch at about 3/5 (they win 5 to my 3 in a 1 vs 1 at around same gear) now given that I beat any other class handily in a 1 vs 1 I cant complain too much about control wizards, rogues are not overpowered though they do have incredibly annoying abilities.
Abac I've played you many times you have a bad tendency to sit on your at wills and not move, to beat rogues you have to play paranoid, constant movement, time dodges to match them entering stealth etc. If rogues are a problem for you spec better in feats; pure damage is great but isn't the way to win 1 vs 1s. Repel is an underrated ability but devastating in 1 vs 1 especially for beating rogues and keeping distance, its also instant cast meaning you find the rogue in stealth you can hit it and immediately jump them out ready for your choke. If your into defending the point it also means your team scoring everytime you get them off the point.
Bottom line is adjust how your playing and you'll see rogues aren't as bad as they were prepatch they are now very beatable for a good cw.
Yeah, post patch I've thought about changing to repel + ray, especially against GF. The problem I see with that is the lowered DPS. Also, unless repel is tabbed, doesn't fully help my team when it's getting clogged. Repel can be a pain too if we are 2vs1 and I knock the opponent away since I’m getting all the love. I feel the ball is more versatile and repel is better 1vs1 against some classes.
Could you please explain more about the moving around part? Do you mean with ports or by feet? When I started to play PVP I ported some in between but over time I've noticed that it will kill me more in the end. I really needed to save ports. If with feet, how does that make it harder for the rogue if I walk around? When I’m capping a base I normally stand still close to the center to see if the icon changes when a rogue enters.
What annoys me is the totally unbalanced ability stealth that initially allows them one more card in a poker game. That in combination with Impact shot or Lashing makes me initially sometimes the player with two cards on my hand in the same poker game. Premade is different since you have better knowledge where players are and learn the structure of attacks. In PUGs anything can and will happen which makes it harder to see the attacks since there are often 2 TR in each team.
I often win against rogues but even if I only get stealth killed once every second match it’s still too much. If however top rogues enter the field they can kill me with Impact shots where the first attack came from when they stealthed out of sight. I sitting with my poker cards and the opponent brought a gun.
Trust me… I’m hitting that port so hard my keyboard is complaining. Maybe it’s random or my ping is too bad (150-200) but sometimes there is NO way I can press anything until I’m dead from 3x Impact shots. The game should be about skill not unseen attacks.
I’m seriously considering making a program that ports 30 times per second to see if it’s always possible to get out.
Ilyuma right? (sorry if not lol), you're missing the point, you compare our premades (where btw we never send CW against a TR.....EVER, unless he's fighting some other rogue and you just go to help him) to pugs where you are queued against more than 1 rogue, uneven geared players etc'.
and once again I don't think its a L2P issue.
it was repel that gave you the clue? , the last premade we had i was on back point, and blackheart kept coming for 1 vs 1s with me there, had some great fights over and over, the main thing is even when i lost the point remained ours and we scored, before the patch SS rogue would tear me apart but now things have changed, what hasn't changed is survivability vs a massed group who all focus me first.
If were talking pure guild vs guild tactical matchups then yeah cw have their issues due to that lack of survivability but then I'm more worried about GF than I am rogue because of the chain stun out of AS and then swarmed.
Ping is huge for a cw either way, its an absolute killer as I'm running 300 vs the US players who seem to have silly low pings, if you've got a bad ping its going to affect you and there's nothing you can do but try to adapt to it.
I believe the majority of CW who complain do so because they cant play their class as well as it can be played, very few of the ones complaining play top level premades against the best guys in the game so wouldn't understand just how painful it is to get focused first everytime by people who know what they are doing. But talking about the other 99.9pct of the game CW do just fine.
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kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yeah, post patch I've thought about changing to repel + ray, especially against GF. The problem I see with that is the lowered DPS. Also, unless repel is tabbed, doesn't fully help my team when it's getting clogged. Repel can be a pain too if we are 2vs1 and I knock the opponent away since I’m getting all the love. I feel the ball is more versatile and repel is better 1vs1 against some classes.
Could you please explain more about the moving around part? Do you mean with ports or by feet? When I started to play PVP I ported some in between but over time I've noticed that it will kill me more in the end. I really needed to save ports. If with feet, how does that make it harder for the rogue if I walk around? When I’m capping a base I normally stand still close to the center to see if the icon changes when a rogue enters.
What annoys me is the totally unbalanced ability stealth that initially allows them one more card in a poker game. That in combination with Impact shot or Lashing makes me initially sometimes the player with two cards on my hand in the same poker game. Premade is different since you have better knowledge where players are and learn the structure of attacks. In PUGs anything can and will happen which makes it harder to see the attacks since there are often 2 TR in each team.
I often win against rogues but even if I only get stealth killed once every second match it’s still too much. If however top rogues enter the field they can kill me with Impact shots where the first attack came from when they stealthed out of sight. I sitting with my poker cards and the opponent brought a gun.
Trust me… I’m hitting that port so hard my keyboard is complaining. Maybe it’s random or my ping is too bad (150-200) but sometimes there is NO way I can press anything until I’m dead from 3x Impact shots. The game should be about skill not unseen attacks.
I’m seriously considering making a program that ports 30 times per second to see if it’s always possible to get out.
Stealth unbalanced? Ok lets remove stealth and replace it with the ability to repel or trap people or drop those balls. Your whining and raging in this thread just makes you look foolish. Your own movie shows the game is balanced. Not a single one of the classes is a juggernaut that can kill everything and not be killed. Simply wanting TRs nerfed because they kill you occasionally, you said it yourself its not all the time, is stupid. Too bad the game is full of people like you and there will be another round of nerfs for everyone in the future. The future of this game looks very bad because of people like you.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Dear god stop asking for nerfs on any class the PvE game is getting destroyed due to this constant <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> from PvP. Switch it up and ask for a buff but for Christs sake no more nerfs to any class or this will soon be a PvP game only
I just watched this video. You were killed by a rogue only once. In fact, you were chased by 2 rogues and a cleric before got killed by an Impact shot.
What are you trying to prove with the video?
-Rogue is OP or Impact shot is OP? Then they should kill you multiple times in a roll, not just once.
-So many rogues in a game? I see there were 4 CWs in your video.
The only thing I see from this video is a nice play of a CW, which should be used as a video guide for how to play CW not for proving TR is OP. Your video makes your argument unbelievable and ridiculous.
You say 4v5 is impossible? Cool story bro.
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idontwinitskkMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 43Arc User
edited August 2013
Abac,not that i could ever take you seriously after all the crying and missinformation you were spreading,i mean i really couldn't, but now after watching the video i can safely ignore all your posts.
Just to let you know,claiming your a good player that dies only in unfair situations then posting a video that shows you locking yourself in one place for 30+ seconds at a time and spamming shift whenever someone gets close to you with your back turned against them isn't very smart.If that GF was half decent at timing his ONE(a.k.a you can easily time it and dodge it) cc skill you would be respawning for half the video duration.CW's are a lot like rogues,timing and making sure you are always mobile are the keys to playing well.In those 6 minutes you did neither of those.
Abac,not that i could ever take you seriously after all the crying and missinformation you were spreading,i mean i really couldn't, but now after watching the video i can safely ignore all your posts.
Just to let you know,claiming your a good player that dies only in unfair situations then posting a video that shows you locking yourself in one place for 30+ seconds at a time and spamming shift whenever someone gets close to you with your back turned against them isn't very smart.If that GF was half decent at timing his ONE(a.k.a you can easily time it and dodge it) cc skill you would be respawning for half the video duration.CW's are a lot like rogues,timing and making sure you are always mobile are the keys to playing well.In those 6 minutes you did neither of those.
I understand that your skill and analytic ability is supreme. You are one of those players who glide in and own everyone.
This was the first video I recorded and took 6 minutes from start. I can do like many and make a collection of my premium kills and top 1 match out of 50, but I didn't. There isn't a single match I've played the last month where a GF owns me every time. Sure, I could have performed better but at that point I didn't.
Please never refer to intelligence in public like this. It just shows you lack it. It’s like you try to convince yourself that you are something which you aren’t. Everyone knows it…
Put your money where your mouth is and make one recording today and post it. Naa? Too... insecure? What if someone with supreme skill and analytic ability flames you and is RIGHT about it?
I still stand with everyone this is a L2P issue. As much as I cant stand to listen to anything you say because its always whining about something, your video and play wasn't "half-bad".
This video however provides zero proof on your point of thinking Rogues are OP. If anything, it shows quite the opposite, and CW's range is ridiculous.
I play competitively both a CW and TR in PvP. Some pointers from me if you care to take them or not.
1. You don't move enough. Standing still for 4-5 rotations of all your encounters is a sure-fire way to get owned by a TR. You mentioned wanting to save Dodge. In most cases I would agree. But you need to be aware of your battlefield. If you know a TR has just died, be that you, or your team has killed them, and you see the enemy running towards the middle, chances are you have a TR b-lining it to you. This would be a good time to randomly dodge, and move around. What you have to remember is by just walking a fiew steps, that "could" put you out of range for an incoming LB, and leave the rogue open to attack. If you played a TR you would know that it is incredible easy to dodge LB, as the dodging in this game is buggy at best. What I mean is, as a TR, every match, atleast a couple times, I will smack someone dead in the face with a Lashing, see the graphic hit them, and 1 second, sometimes longer, they will dodge away and somehow "dodge" the ability after the fact. This is not a Ping issue, or a graphical glitch, its just plain buggy dodge, and TR's learn to get used to it.
2. Other then getting extremely "lucky" with you moving your Shard around, you have zero abilities that make a rogue easily seeable. You are complaining about Stealthed TR's, but you have slotted not one encounter, that counters there stealth. I.E, CoI/Repel. CoI obviously better, because it is constant damage, owns the stealth meter, and lets you see them generally long enough to run through your cool downs. Repel >EF also affective, but imo, not as good as casting CoI immediately once you are able to see a TR.
Also, the GF that was using the cheese on you, KC, you had no real way to combat him. Ray of Frost as its instant, minor dmg yes, but when KC is on very good dmg, as well as possibly freezing him, would have done a lot better for you. Repel >Ray of Frost >ice etc.
End State: Given the group make-up that you are fighting, you need to adjust your encounter/ability set up.
Move around. A CW that obviously never moves around is easy pickins for a TR, and laughable easy for a skilled one.
Stop complaining on the forums. If you have a legitimate problem, there are plenty of ways to find out good responses
from people on the Forums. Starting a "<insert class>Is OP c'mon Cryptic! thread, will always get you flamed belittled and made fun of.
I just watched this video. You were killed by a rogue only once. In fact, you were chased by 2 rogues and a cleric before got killed by an Impact shot.
What are you trying to prove with the video?
-Rogue is OP or Impact shot is OP? Then they should kill you multiple times in a roll, not just once.
-So many rogues in a game? I see there were 4 CWs in your video.
The only thing I see from this video is a nice play of a CW, which should be used as a video guide for how to play CW not for proving TR is OP. Your video makes your argument unbelievable and ridiculous.
What is OP is that I can't see the TR but he sees me and can damage me. 30 % of my health from stealth in this case?
Come now... take a deep breath, open your mind and relax. A better geared TR with crit and the Impact shot takes more than 50 % of my health. Is that reasonable?
What is OP is that I can't see the TR but he sees me and can damage me. 30 % of my health from stealth in this case?
Come now... take a deep breath, open your mind and relax. A better geared TR with crit and the Impact shot takes more than 50 % of my health. Is that reasonable?
The same could be said about CW's range. Is it fair that a CW can touch me from what seems like halfway across the map and I have no abilities that can touch him?
Yes...of course its fair. Because CW's are a "Ranged" class. The only ranged "Nuke" class in the game.
Rogues are Melee DPS. Highest Melee burst dps in the game. But. We have to be close, very close.
If you have Repel slotted in Mastery, you get hit in the back with an Impact Shot, chances are the rogue is behind you very close. Turn, hit Repel, watch the rogue fly 8 miles away, EF, nuke, dot like every other good CW in PvP.
A skilled CW is hands down a TR's worst encounter 1 vs 1.
Some would say a Sent GWF, but....well...that build is just dumb and I don't even generally waste my time fighting them, as they tend to just run for pots anyway.
I still stand with everyone this is a L2P issue. As much as I cant stand to listen to anything you say because its always whining about something, your video and play wasn't "half-bad".
This video however provides zero proof on your point of thinking Rogues are OP. If anything, it shows quite the opposite, and CW's range is ridiculous.
I play competitively both a CW and TR in PvP. Some pointers from me if you care to take them or not.
1. You don't move enough. Standing still for 4-5 rotations of all your encounters is a sure-fire way to get owned by a TR. You mentioned wanting to save Dodge. In most cases I would agree. But you need to be aware of your battlefield. If you know a TR has just died, be that you, or your team has killed them, and you see the enemy running towards the middle, chances are you have a TR b-lining it to you. This would be a good time to randomly dodge, and move around. What you have to remember is by just walking a fiew steps, that "could" put you out of range for an incoming LB, and leave the rogue open to attack. If you played a TR you would know that it is incredible easy to dodge LB, as the dodging in this game is buggy at best. What I mean is, as a TR, every match, atleast a couple times, I will smack someone dead in the face with a Lashing, see the graphic hit them, and 1 second, sometimes longer, they will dodge away and somehow "dodge" the ability after the fact. This is not a Ping issue, or a graphical glitch, its just plain buggy dodge, and TR's learn to get used to it.
2. Other then getting extremely "lucky" with you moving your Shard around, you have zero abilities that make a rogue easily seeable. You are complaining about Stealthed TR's, but you have slotted not one encounter, that counters there stealth. I.E, CoI/Repel. CoI obviously better, because it is constant damage, owns the stealth meter, and lets you see them generally long enough to run through your cool downs. Repel >EF also affective, but imo, not as good as casting CoI immediately once you are able to see a TR.
Also, the GF that was using the cheese on you, KC, you had no real way to combat him. Ray of Frost as its instant, minor dmg yes, but when KC is on very good dmg, as well as possibly freezing him, would have done a lot better for you. Repel >Ray of Frost >ice etc.
End State: Given the group make-up that you are fighting, you need to adjust your encounter/ability set up.
Move around. A CW that obviously never moves around is easy pickins for a TR, and laughable easy for a skilled one.
Stop complaining on the forums. If you have a legitimate problem, there are plenty of ways to find out good responses
from people on the Forums. Starting a "<insert class>Is OP c'mon Cryptic! thread, will always get you flamed belittled and made fun of.
Didn't we agree that you shouldn't reply to my posts?
It's funny since I am many times the one in PVP who dies the least. If I would have died because I was standing still I would stop that. I have been there and done that and the random porting strategy didn't work for me.
Lucky with the Shard? I thought I was quite unlucky with it. Missing the GF that coasted me my life. Missed the TR too that might have killed him in the end. Trust me, I wasn't lucky at all.
Yup, ray + repel is without doubt better at some points. Other times charged Ice Knife and lockdown are better. There is no ItC, unstoppable, GF daily, healing or other ability that works when you are proned.
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borgued3Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 150Bounty Hunter
What is OP is that I can't see the TR but he sees me and can damage me. 30 % of my health from stealth in this case?
Come now... take a deep breath, open your mind and relax. A better geared TR with crit and the Impact shot takes more than 50 % of my health. Is that reasonable?
well, your class has a permaprone rotation that isnt really fair either, GWF has a perma stun/prone rotation as well, and CW have perma CC.
The same way you find stealth unfair just because you can't see it, we can give it right back at those 3 classes. You can at least shorten the stealth duration by dealing damage to the rogue with AoEs, now tell me how you stop being bounced around by a GF when it starts (before we are at death's doors i mean)? Or how you get rid of perma CC from CWs finished by ice dagger nuking nearly all your HP? Or how you stop a GWF from stunlocking you?
every class has it's perk to bring some advantage to it on pvp, and TR's perk is the ability to at least for some time avoid being locked down by the rotations of those 3 classes to even the fighting ground, and even so a GWF has that same ability when he pops unstoppable and becomes immune to CC, the difference is that he is still visible, but there is nothing we can do to shorten unstopabble, while there is plenty one can do to shorten stealth.
Buy im not all over the place asking to nerf GF/GWF/CW, i recognize they have the right to have their own combat advantage given that TRs have their's, but those 3 classes have the nerf to complain on stealth when they have means to make the fight completelly one sided for them given the rogue is not stealthed.
EDIT:
And Yep, A tr with better gear wiping 50% of your hp, you realize that now you are stumbling on the area we told you guys about so many times already right? TRs with ubber gear, just like ANY class will cause that much damage to even tanks. See how much damage your GF will pull up when he is properly geared and you will realize that the problem is not the classes, its the enchants.
The same could be said about CW's range. Is it fair that a CW can touch me from what seems like halfway across the map and I have no abilities that can touch him?
Hmm, nuking TR at range solo is quite rare. Often it is when the TR is running away and that is quite fast so the window is very narrow or the TR is fighting someone else. Sure, standing on top of a ledge, then it's usable.
Most often the TR isn't visible at range so I’m not sure it would make much difference if you even increased the CW range.
Didn't we agree that you shouldn't reply to my posts?
It's funny since I am many times the one in PVP who dies the least. If I would have died because I was standing still I would stop that. I have been there and done that and the random porting strategy didn't work for me.
Lucky with the Shard? I thought I was quite unlucky with it. Missing the GF that coasted me my life. Missed the TR too that might have killed him in the end. Trust me, I wasn't lucky at all.
Yup, ray + repel is without doubt better at some points. Other times charged Ice Knife and lockdown are better. There is no ItC, unstoppable, GF daily, healing or other ability that works when you are proned.
Being "lucky" with the shard was my point. You weren't Lucky with it. But in your set-up, that's the only ability IF you got "lucky" with it, that would make a stealthed TR able to see.
Its obvious by just about everyone who posts on this forum that you are apparently above having a normal conversation when it comes to this game. Your posts hold absolutely zero water, and even when someone tries to give you advice, you have nothing but attitude towards them.
Anxiously awaiting the day they merge the servers so I can make you rage quit in PvP with your silly non-moving CW tactics =P
well, your class has a permaprone rotation that isnt really fair either, GWF has a perma stun/prone rotation as well, and CW have perma CC.
This is great news! Please tell me how to perma CC and I'll respec ASAP.
I can avoid all classes’ abilities if I'm skilled but not the TR's. If the rogue stealth behind a corner skill doesn't matter anymore for the first blow. And if the wind/sun/ping is right I will die right there before even port goes out.
Being "lucky" with the shard was my point. You weren't Lucky with it. But in your set-up, that's the only ability IF you got "lucky" with it, that would make a stealthed TR able to see.
Its obvious by just about everyone who posts on this forum that you are apparently above having a normal conversation when it comes to this game. Your posts hold absolutely zero water, and even when someone tries to give you advice, you have nothing but attitude towards them.
Anxiously awaiting the day they merge the servers so I can make you rage quit in PvP with your silly non-moving CW tactics =P
You are welcome and by then I hope rogue is more balanced than today.
I have met many like you. Gets mad, invis, Impact shot... even if I'm right in the middle of my team. Spawns, runs around looking for me, invis, impact shot.
Why do you think I want TR to be balanced and fair?
EDIT: If you truly are giving me advice and is trying to be helpful I apologies with all my heart.
You are welcome and by then I hope rogue is more balanced than today.
I have met many like you. Gets mad, invis, Impact shot... even if I'm right in the middle of my team. Spawns, runs around looking for me, invis, impact shot.
Why do you think I want TR to be balanced and fair?
EDIT: If you truly are giving me advice and is trying to be helpful I apologies with all my heart.
I been a hard core pvp'r since the old days of UO and EQ 1. Getting mad over dieing in PvP is not in my nature. I adapt, get better, over-come, and when all else fails.. Run away, and live to fight another day.
Get mad, invis, impact shot?...No..not my build
From me you'll see Dazing in stealth, impact >LB. In most situations that's my preferred method for taking out CW's. As I am only running a lesser vorpal, after the patch to Lurkers my LA/Lb hits range from 19-25k. 22-23 Seems the normal lately(better geared players or just bad crits not sure). So I've been using LA >Dazing>impact>LB. Dazing is highly underrated it seems with many TR's because its all about timing. For me, Dazing in lurkers is good for 13-19k+stun, impact 8-15K. A lesser geared CW only survives that 2 hit combo from me by sheer luck, higher geared CW's take a bit more "sometimes".
Quite a fiew people on this thread have done there best to give you some advice. But you keep resorting back to "I'm a cry baby" responses. Not sure what you expect from people when your attitude is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> from the very first letter you type in every single thread you've ever made. All evident by reading your past posts.
Until you learn to lighten up, and take the advice with a grain of salt you are never going to get anything but flames in your threads.
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borgued3Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 150Bounty Hunter
This is great news! Please tell me how to perma CC and I'll respec ASAP.
I can avoid all classes’ abilities if I'm skilled but not the TR's. If the rogue stealth behind a corner skill doesn't matter anymore for the first blow. And if the wind/sun/ping is right I will die right there before even port goes out.
if the rogue is stealthed and intends to LB you, he will have to get in your field of vision, turn camera fast and shift. There you go, lashing blade blocked and you can start your permaprone chain on the now visible rogue, or, in case he popped ItC to avoid damage and CC just remain glued to him for 5 secs then start the permaprone combo, easy as that.
Impact shots? easiest thing ever to block being a GF, hardly a problem and given the cd between the charges is quite extensive, you wont have to worry with it for some time in case the rogue depleted it.
But again, if the rogue is managing to 1 hit you, being you a GF, it means that either he is overgeared (one of the few elite on the server) or you are undergeared (quite common), either way a rogue faces hell everytime he stumbles on a GF and victory is only visible if the GF sux or if the rogue has top gear and GF has none. Not saying you fit either case but if a rogue is beating you that easy something is wrong with you.
As for the perma CC question here are your stun/prone skills for GF:
Griffon's wrath (3 charges, 3 stuns)
Daily terrifying impact: prone in AoE
Frontline surge: prone and knockback
Indomitable strenght: prone and knockback (use either this or terrifying)
Bullcharge: prone and knockback
you have at least in 1 rotation 3 knockback and prone (dont try to play "its a daily power" card, we all know how fast GF generates AP) and 1 stun that can be applied 3 times, so yes, you can leave a person defenseless with ease except GWF who can turn immune to it with unstoppable, but all others are done for, and even if you replace one of them with something else, such as lunging strike for gap closer and dmg, or whatever you still have enough to kill a player without him doing as much as fight back. The only issue with rogue is that you will have to get him out of stealth, and that is manageable as well (either place an AoE there instead of griffon or wait for him to try to land big hit on you (which any player aware of his surroundings can see)).
I hope i helped you develop something to put rogues down. Trust me, i am trying to help you, as weird as it may seem considering i am a rogue and what i am saying here can and will be used against me. But fact is that on this forums we seem to have to teach people how to beat a class they think are OP regardless of it being our class, else the forum just gets flooded with people complaining how invincible something is, even when it is not.
if the rogue is stealthed and intends to LB you, he will have to get in your field of vision, turn camera fast and shift. There you go, lashing blade blocked and you can start your permaprone chain on the now visible rogue, or, in case he popped ItC to avoid damage and CC just remain glued to him for 5 secs then start the permaprone combo, easy as that.
Impact shots? easiest thing ever to block being a GF, hardly a problem and given the cd between the charges is quite extensive, you wont have to worry with it for some time in case the rogue depleted it.
But again, if the rogue is managing to 1 hit you, being you a GF, it means that either he is overgeared (one of the few elite on the server) or you are undergeared (quite common), either way a rogue faces hell everytime he stumbles on a GF and victory is only visible if the GF sux or if the rogue has top gear and GF has none. Not saying you fit either case but if a rogue is beating you that easy something is wrong with you.
As for the perma CC question here are your stun/prone skills for GF:
Griffon's wrath (3 charges, 3 stuns)
Daily terrifying impact: prone in AoE
Frontline surge: prone and knockback
Indomitable strenght: prone and knockback (use either this or terrifying)
Bullcharge: prone and knockback
you have at least in 1 rotation 3 knockback and prone (dont try to play "its a daily power" card, we all know how fast GF generates AP) and 1 stun that can be applied 3 times, so yes, you can leave a person defenseless with ease except GWF who can turn immune to it with unstoppable, but all others are done for, and even if you replace one of them with something else, such as lunging strike for gap closer and dmg, or whatever you still have enough to kill a player without him doing as much as fight back. The only issue with rogue is that you will have to get him out of stealth, and that is manageable as well (either place an AoE there instead of griffon or wait for him to try to land big hit on you (which any player aware of his surroundings can see)).
I hope i helped you develop something to put rogues down. Trust me, i am trying to help you, as weird as it may seem considering i am a rogue and what i am saying here can and will be used against me. But fact is that on this forums we seem to have to teach people how to beat a class they think are OP regardless of it being our class, else the forum just gets flooded with people complaining how invincible something is, even when it is not.
It's not a 1 vs 1 game. It's a team effort.
Nomather how well geared you are, how skilled you are. You're team is only as strong as it's weakest link. If you're team starts to make mistakes, like starts to attacking a Sent GWF when there's a CW standing pew pew a couple feets away you gonna pay for it. Sure there are som broken skills and items in this game. But they don't carry the team in pvp. If you find yourself in situations were you are alone alot with a glass cannon. Your playing it wrong.
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borgued3Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 150Bounty Hunter
hmm, could swear it was a GF, with CW it will indeed be riskier but i believe i posted a way he could beat a TR with it. When it comes down to CW its a matter of who uses the class better, it isnt as simple as "rogue always win" or "CW always win", whoever manages to get the upper hand on the other will take the prize.
If a rogue is caught by a competent CW who can perform a good perma CC rotation (and its more than possible in case aba doubts it) he is dead, the same way that if a CW is caught by the rogue and take a LB to the head without being able to teleport away (be it because he was unaware of his surroundings or because he burned all his teleports earlier) he is as good as dead, but given the odds that each class can kill the other with the slightest mistep from the enemy, i gotta say it is balanced, since both have the same chance of walking away victorious from the fight.
hmm, could swear it was a GF, with CW it will indeed be riskier but i believe i posted a way he could beat a TR with it. When it comes down to CW its a matter of who uses the class better, it isnt as simple as "rogue always win" or "CW always win", whoever manages to get the upper hand on the other will take the prize.
If a rogue is caught by a competent CW who can perform a good perma CC rotation (and its more than possible in case aba doubts it) he is dead, the same way that if a CW is caught by the rogue and take a LB to the head without being able to teleport away (be it because he was unaware of his surroundings or because he burned all his teleports earlier) he is as good as dead, but given the odds that each class can kill the other with the slightest mistep from the enemy, i gotta say it is balanced, since both have the same chance of walking away victorious from the fight.
The problem is competent rogues MELT CWs in split second even if they manage to CC the rogue first, which doesn't happen. The CW has a chance IF 1) rogues doesn't have daily 2) rogue doesn't have impact shot 3) rogues gets CC'd before he can start rotation 4) rogue is blind, stoned or otherwise disabled.
But CW has a chance, against GFs they don't.
When rogues complain being so so soo squishy they conveniently forget that there is one more class even squishier. 1.5k def doesn't help and you have to sacrifice much to get that much as CW, 28k hp doesn't help and again you have to sacrifice much.
I can teach you press stealth then press lashing blade!
If playing a TR is that mind numbingly easy...go play one. Make a video so we can all laugh at you when you get crushed...Thinking you just "role a TR and roflstomp" in pvp is hilarious......
pffff for god sake , all childs are whinning about TR , they nerfed us 2 times what do you want now ? to remove TR !!!
i sometimes get nailed hard by gwf and gf , cw can be a pain in the *** if they have enough high dmg and cc
just live with it
pffff for god sake , all childs are whinning about TR , they nerfed us 2 times what do you want now ? to remove TR !!!
i sometimes get nailed hard by gwf and gf , cw can be a pain in the *** if they have enough high dmg and cc
just live with it
ah yea because you got an overall nerf 40% to all your damage done? oh wait that was cleric and their healing!
If playing a TR is that mind numbingly easy...go play one. Make a video so we can all laugh at you when you get crushed...Thinking you just "role a TR and roflstomp" in pvp is hilarious......
we both know that different classes have different learning curves!
and to be fair ANYONE with decent gear bought straight off AH for 40k Astral can go in and oneshot or kill most players within seconds with ease as a rogue! that is why stealth classes are so popular in MMOS! they are easy to play and they generally win against most classes in pvp!
Comments
Thanks for correcting me and giving me an idea. Lurker's Assault is why the rogue did not break stealth with impact shot. I missed the sound of LA. I agree that his own video shows he really has no reason to complain about TRs. He is just biased against them and wants them nerfed more even if it means all the other classes get nerfed as well. His own video and thread makes him look like a fool who whines because he simply wants to whine. This type of player is even worse than the ones that need to learn to play because they want to destroy the game for everyone else without even having a valid reason.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Could you please explain more about the moving around part? Do you mean with ports or by feet? When I started to play PVP I ported some in between but over time I've noticed that it will kill me more in the end. I really needed to save ports. If with feet, how does that make it harder for the rogue if I walk around? When I’m capping a base I normally stand still close to the center to see if the icon changes when a rogue enters.
What annoys me is the totally unbalanced ability stealth that initially allows them one more card in a poker game. That in combination with Impact shot or Lashing makes me initially sometimes the player with two cards on my hand in the same poker game. Premade is different since you have better knowledge where players are and learn the structure of attacks. In PUGs anything can and will happen which makes it harder to see the attacks since there are often 2 TR in each team.
I often win against rogues but even if I only get stealth killed once every second match it’s still too much. If however top rogues enter the field they can kill me with Impact shots where the first attack came from when they stealthed out of sight. I sitting with my poker cards and the opponent brought a gun.
Trust me… I’m hitting that port so hard my keyboard is complaining. Maybe it’s random or my ping is too bad (150-200) but sometimes there is NO way I can press anything until I’m dead from 3x Impact shots. The game should be about skill not unseen attacks.
I’m seriously considering making a program that ports 30 times per second to see if it’s always possible to get out.
it was repel that gave you the clue?
If were talking pure guild vs guild tactical matchups then yeah cw have their issues due to that lack of survivability but then I'm more worried about GF than I am rogue because of the chain stun out of AS and then swarmed.
Ping is huge for a cw either way, its an absolute killer as I'm running 300 vs the US players who seem to have silly low pings, if you've got a bad ping its going to affect you and there's nothing you can do but try to adapt to it.
I believe the majority of CW who complain do so because they cant play their class as well as it can be played, very few of the ones complaining play top level premades against the best guys in the game so wouldn't understand just how painful it is to get focused first everytime by people who know what they are doing. But talking about the other 99.9pct of the game CW do just fine.
Stealth unbalanced? Ok lets remove stealth and replace it with the ability to repel or trap people or drop those balls. Your whining and raging in this thread just makes you look foolish. Your own movie shows the game is balanced. Not a single one of the classes is a juggernaut that can kill everything and not be killed. Simply wanting TRs nerfed because they kill you occasionally, you said it yourself its not all the time, is stupid. Too bad the game is full of people like you and there will be another round of nerfs for everyone in the future. The future of this game looks very bad because of people like you.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
I just watched this video. You were killed by a rogue only once. In fact, you were chased by 2 rogues and a cleric before got killed by an Impact shot.
What are you trying to prove with the video?
-Rogue is OP or Impact shot is OP? Then they should kill you multiple times in a roll, not just once.
-So many rogues in a game? I see there were 4 CWs in your video.
The only thing I see from this video is a nice play of a CW, which should be used as a video guide for how to play CW not for proving TR is OP. Your video makes your argument unbelievable and ridiculous.
Just to let you know,claiming your a good player that dies only in unfair situations then posting a video that shows you locking yourself in one place for 30+ seconds at a time and spamming shift whenever someone gets close to you with your back turned against them isn't very smart.If that GF was half decent at timing his ONE(a.k.a you can easily time it and dodge it) cc skill you would be respawning for half the video duration.CW's are a lot like rogues,timing and making sure you are always mobile are the keys to playing well.In those 6 minutes you did neither of those.
This was the first video I recorded and took 6 minutes from start. I can do like many and make a collection of my premium kills and top 1 match out of 50, but I didn't. There isn't a single match I've played the last month where a GF owns me every time. Sure, I could have performed better but at that point I didn't.
Please never refer to intelligence in public like this. It just shows you lack it. It’s like you try to convince yourself that you are something which you aren’t. Everyone knows it…
Put your money where your mouth is and make one recording today and post it. Naa? Too... insecure? What if someone with supreme skill and analytic ability flames you and is RIGHT about it?
This video however provides zero proof on your point of thinking Rogues are OP. If anything, it shows quite the opposite, and CW's range is ridiculous.
I play competitively both a CW and TR in PvP. Some pointers from me if you care to take them or not.
1. You don't move enough. Standing still for 4-5 rotations of all your encounters is a sure-fire way to get owned by a TR. You mentioned wanting to save Dodge. In most cases I would agree. But you need to be aware of your battlefield. If you know a TR has just died, be that you, or your team has killed them, and you see the enemy running towards the middle, chances are you have a TR b-lining it to you. This would be a good time to randomly dodge, and move around. What you have to remember is by just walking a fiew steps, that "could" put you out of range for an incoming LB, and leave the rogue open to attack. If you played a TR you would know that it is incredible easy to dodge LB, as the dodging in this game is buggy at best. What I mean is, as a TR, every match, atleast a couple times, I will smack someone dead in the face with a Lashing, see the graphic hit them, and 1 second, sometimes longer, they will dodge away and somehow "dodge" the ability after the fact. This is not a Ping issue, or a graphical glitch, its just plain buggy dodge, and TR's learn to get used to it.
2. Other then getting extremely "lucky" with you moving your Shard around, you have zero abilities that make a rogue easily seeable. You are complaining about Stealthed TR's, but you have slotted not one encounter, that counters there stealth. I.E, CoI/Repel. CoI obviously better, because it is constant damage, owns the stealth meter, and lets you see them generally long enough to run through your cool downs. Repel >EF also affective, but imo, not as good as casting CoI immediately once you are able to see a TR.
Also, the GF that was using the cheese on you, KC, you had no real way to combat him. Ray of Frost as its instant, minor dmg yes, but when KC is on very good dmg, as well as possibly freezing him, would have done a lot better for you. Repel >Ray of Frost >ice etc.
End State: Given the group make-up that you are fighting, you need to adjust your encounter/ability set up.
Move around. A CW that obviously never moves around is easy pickins for a TR, and laughable easy for a skilled one.
Stop complaining on the forums. If you have a legitimate problem, there are plenty of ways to find out good responses
from people on the Forums. Starting a "<insert class>Is OP c'mon Cryptic! thread, will always get you flamed belittled and made fun of.
Come now... take a deep breath, open your mind and relax. A better geared TR with crit and the Impact shot takes more than 50 % of my health. Is that reasonable?
The same could be said about CW's range. Is it fair that a CW can touch me from what seems like halfway across the map and I have no abilities that can touch him?
Yes...of course its fair. Because CW's are a "Ranged" class. The only ranged "Nuke" class in the game.
Rogues are Melee DPS. Highest Melee burst dps in the game. But. We have to be close, very close.
If you have Repel slotted in Mastery, you get hit in the back with an Impact Shot, chances are the rogue is behind you very close. Turn, hit Repel, watch the rogue fly 8 miles away, EF, nuke, dot like every other good CW in PvP.
A skilled CW is hands down a TR's worst encounter 1 vs 1.
Some would say a Sent GWF, but....well...that build is just dumb and I don't even generally waste my time fighting them, as they tend to just run for pots anyway.
It's funny since I am many times the one in PVP who dies the least. If I would have died because I was standing still I would stop that. I have been there and done that and the random porting strategy didn't work for me.
Lucky with the Shard? I thought I was quite unlucky with it. Missing the GF that coasted me my life. Missed the TR too that might have killed him in the end. Trust me, I wasn't lucky at all.
Yup, ray + repel is without doubt better at some points. Other times charged Ice Knife and lockdown are better. There is no ItC, unstoppable, GF daily, healing or other ability that works when you are proned.
well, your class has a permaprone rotation that isnt really fair either, GWF has a perma stun/prone rotation as well, and CW have perma CC.
The same way you find stealth unfair just because you can't see it, we can give it right back at those 3 classes. You can at least shorten the stealth duration by dealing damage to the rogue with AoEs, now tell me how you stop being bounced around by a GF when it starts (before we are at death's doors i mean)? Or how you get rid of perma CC from CWs finished by ice dagger nuking nearly all your HP? Or how you stop a GWF from stunlocking you?
every class has it's perk to bring some advantage to it on pvp, and TR's perk is the ability to at least for some time avoid being locked down by the rotations of those 3 classes to even the fighting ground, and even so a GWF has that same ability when he pops unstoppable and becomes immune to CC, the difference is that he is still visible, but there is nothing we can do to shorten unstopabble, while there is plenty one can do to shorten stealth.
Buy im not all over the place asking to nerf GF/GWF/CW, i recognize they have the right to have their own combat advantage given that TRs have their's, but those 3 classes have the nerf to complain on stealth when they have means to make the fight completelly one sided for them given the rogue is not stealthed.
EDIT:
And Yep, A tr with better gear wiping 50% of your hp, you realize that now you are stumbling on the area we told you guys about so many times already right? TRs with ubber gear, just like ANY class will cause that much damage to even tanks. See how much damage your GF will pull up when he is properly geared and you will realize that the problem is not the classes, its the enchants.
Most often the TR isn't visible at range so I’m not sure it would make much difference if you even increased the CW range.
Being "lucky" with the shard was my point. You weren't Lucky with it. But in your set-up, that's the only ability IF you got "lucky" with it, that would make a stealthed TR able to see.
Its obvious by just about everyone who posts on this forum that you are apparently above having a normal conversation when it comes to this game. Your posts hold absolutely zero water, and even when someone tries to give you advice, you have nothing but attitude towards them.
Anxiously awaiting the day they merge the servers so I can make you rage quit in PvP with your silly non-moving CW tactics =P
I can avoid all classes’ abilities if I'm skilled but not the TR's. If the rogue stealth behind a corner skill doesn't matter anymore for the first blow. And if the wind/sun/ping is right I will die right there before even port goes out.
I have met many like you. Gets mad, invis, Impact shot... even if I'm right in the middle of my team. Spawns, runs around looking for me, invis, impact shot.
Why do you think I want TR to be balanced and fair?
EDIT: If you truly are giving me advice and is trying to be helpful I apologies with all my heart.
I been a hard core pvp'r since the old days of UO and EQ 1. Getting mad over dieing in PvP is not in my nature. I adapt, get better, over-come, and when all else fails.. Run away, and live to fight another day.
Get mad, invis, impact shot?...No..not my build
From me you'll see Dazing in stealth, impact >LB. In most situations that's my preferred method for taking out CW's. As I am only running a lesser vorpal, after the patch to Lurkers my LA/Lb hits range from 19-25k. 22-23 Seems the normal lately(better geared players or just bad crits not sure). So I've been using LA >Dazing>impact>LB. Dazing is highly underrated it seems with many TR's because its all about timing. For me, Dazing in lurkers is good for 13-19k+stun, impact 8-15K. A lesser geared CW only survives that 2 hit combo from me by sheer luck, higher geared CW's take a bit more "sometimes".
Quite a fiew people on this thread have done there best to give you some advice. But you keep resorting back to "I'm a cry baby" responses. Not sure what you expect from people when your attitude is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> from the very first letter you type in every single thread you've ever made. All evident by reading your past posts.
Until you learn to lighten up, and take the advice with a grain of salt you are never going to get anything but flames in your threads.
if the rogue is stealthed and intends to LB you, he will have to get in your field of vision, turn camera fast and shift. There you go, lashing blade blocked and you can start your permaprone chain on the now visible rogue, or, in case he popped ItC to avoid damage and CC just remain glued to him for 5 secs then start the permaprone combo, easy as that.
Impact shots? easiest thing ever to block being a GF, hardly a problem and given the cd between the charges is quite extensive, you wont have to worry with it for some time in case the rogue depleted it.
But again, if the rogue is managing to 1 hit you, being you a GF, it means that either he is overgeared (one of the few elite on the server) or you are undergeared (quite common), either way a rogue faces hell everytime he stumbles on a GF and victory is only visible if the GF sux or if the rogue has top gear and GF has none. Not saying you fit either case but if a rogue is beating you that easy something is wrong with you.
As for the perma CC question here are your stun/prone skills for GF:
Griffon's wrath (3 charges, 3 stuns)
Daily terrifying impact: prone in AoE
Frontline surge: prone and knockback
Indomitable strenght: prone and knockback (use either this or terrifying)
Bullcharge: prone and knockback
you have at least in 1 rotation 3 knockback and prone (dont try to play "its a daily power" card, we all know how fast GF generates AP) and 1 stun that can be applied 3 times, so yes, you can leave a person defenseless with ease except GWF who can turn immune to it with unstoppable, but all others are done for, and even if you replace one of them with something else, such as lunging strike for gap closer and dmg, or whatever you still have enough to kill a player without him doing as much as fight back. The only issue with rogue is that you will have to get him out of stealth, and that is manageable as well (either place an AoE there instead of griffon or wait for him to try to land big hit on you (which any player aware of his surroundings can see)).
I hope i helped you develop something to put rogues down. Trust me, i am trying to help you, as weird as it may seem considering i am a rogue and what i am saying here can and will be used against me. But fact is that on this forums we seem to have to teach people how to beat a class they think are OP regardless of it being our class, else the forum just gets flooded with people complaining how invincible something is, even when it is not.
/faceplam
You do realize Ab plays a CW right?
Nomather how well geared you are, how skilled you are. You're team is only as strong as it's weakest link. If you're team starts to make mistakes, like starts to attacking a Sent GWF when there's a CW standing pew pew a couple feets away you gonna pay for it. Sure there are som broken skills and items in this game. But they don't carry the team in pvp. If you find yourself in situations were you are alone alot with a glass cannon. Your playing it wrong.
hmm, could swear it was a GF, with CW it will indeed be riskier but i believe i posted a way he could beat a TR with it. When it comes down to CW its a matter of who uses the class better, it isnt as simple as "rogue always win" or "CW always win", whoever manages to get the upper hand on the other will take the prize.
If a rogue is caught by a competent CW who can perform a good perma CC rotation (and its more than possible in case aba doubts it) he is dead, the same way that if a CW is caught by the rogue and take a LB to the head without being able to teleport away (be it because he was unaware of his surroundings or because he burned all his teleports earlier) he is as good as dead, but given the odds that each class can kill the other with the slightest mistep from the enemy, i gotta say it is balanced, since both have the same chance of walking away victorious from the fight.
The problem is competent rogues MELT CWs in split second even if they manage to CC the rogue first, which doesn't happen. The CW has a chance IF 1) rogues doesn't have daily 2) rogue doesn't have impact shot 3) rogues gets CC'd before he can start rotation 4) rogue is blind, stoned or otherwise disabled.
But CW has a chance, against GFs they don't.
When rogues complain being so so soo squishy they conveniently forget that there is one more class even squishier. 1.5k def doesn't help and you have to sacrifice much to get that much as CW, 28k hp doesn't help and again you have to sacrifice much.
If playing a TR is that mind numbingly easy...go play one. Make a video so we can all laugh at you when you get crushed...Thinking you just "role a TR and roflstomp" in pvp is hilarious......
i sometimes get nailed hard by gwf and gf , cw can be a pain in the *** if they have enough high dmg and cc
just live with it
ah yea because you got an overall nerf 40% to all your damage done? oh wait that was cleric and their healing!
we both know that different classes have different learning curves!
and to be fair ANYONE with decent gear bought straight off AH for 40k Astral can go in and oneshot or kill most players within seconds with ease as a rogue! that is why stealth classes are so popular in MMOS! they are easy to play and they generally win against most classes in pvp!