I'll try to write my experience again and hope this time my connection doesn't close deleting it all .
Ok: yes, my GS raised from 8.9k to 9.3-9.4k just changing the feats to sentinel.
As destroyer i have to admit i didn't do a very good build:
I got unstoppable action, which is useless to me. Simple: unstoppable lowers your encounters damage by 10%. And you gain AP using encounters. If you've to lose 10% damage to gain more AP, it's not Worth it to me. Also, i got the first 2 instigator feats (5% healing with unstoppable and stunning flourish) to try and imitate the stunlock build. But on the other side i maxed the destroyer path and left out the first sentinel feat (15% def reduction upon critical, stacks 3 times). Bad move. Destroyer purpose is not Worth it. I tried a build that could be able to deal damage, stun enemies and survive thanks to fast determination gain and heavy unstoppable usage. Thing is, with just 24k hp i got in this build, in PvP you don't go anywhere. You've to play like a rogue, and if you walk into the brawl you can use unstoppable 1 time, may be 2, then you're dead. A rogue can tank more than you with ITC, dodges and smoke screen.
May be at higher GS it's different, but i doubt. I got 26 str, 16 con and 21 dex.
Changed it, trading constitution for unstoppable action, and again constitution (don't remember the name) for steel defense. My power went from 3.5k to 3k. Then got 1st instigator feat, 1st destroyer feat and full sentinel. My AC went from 28 to 34. HP from 24k to 29k. Survivability raised A LOT. On the other side, i missed just 500 power (20 damage), deep gash (that's a miss) and the 25% recovery into ArP feat (don't remember the name). Didn't get focused destroyer, may be that was a mistake too.
In the end i didn't lose much damage if nothing at all, and increased survivability a lot. My destroyer build was surely not good, but the 500 GS gain and increased effectiveness to me is due to the other 2 paths being much less effective than sentinel. Also, i didn't go for full sentinel. I won't stack regen or try and reach 37k hp, or stack tenebrous. I'm trying a half way build, with enough survivability to tank a lot but good damage (trying to focus on crit to make more damage and make max use of the 1st sentinel feat ( i have 95% crit damage. Left behind the 1% crit chance in heroic feat cause i think 5% more damage is better than just 1% more chance).
Also i use heroic duelist set. It's easy to get and the bonus is good. Or to be honest, would be good. 10% heal, added to the 5% of the feat, considering you use unstoppable all the time, is a good thing in PvP. Too bad it does not work that way. It heals 1% HP per second during unstoppable. Which means at best you heal by 8%. But still looks better than every other set bonuses. Even more if you have high HP.
My tactic in dungeons was to run ahead of my Group, pop slam and WMS to clear the trash and soften the minibosses. With steely defense passive i got 5 sec invulnerability during slam, which was good to tank before my Group could reach me. WMS also debuffed the mobs. If my Group was not there yet when invulnerability dropped, i could just pop unstoppable to tank a bit more. At that point my Group was there. Next move was to use IBS to mark mobs and deal some damage with single target encounters (mobs were scattered all over the place after the party arrived). That way i was 2nd in damage and kills usually.
Right now i tried this AoE rotation: come and get it, spinning strike if i have it up, not so fast, WMS spam. Then IBS to mark mobs. First results are... last in damage, or almost last in damage... even with destroyer and master of arms slotted.
Still trying to figure out what to do in PvE to deal consistent AoE damage.
Other than that, considering i'm still building my gear and decided to do not enchant anything until i can craft some grade 7 stuff, in PvP i have no problems.
Finding parties is another story. As i said, i'd love to run CN and find the ancient greatsword myself, without paying 800k AD for it in the AH. But the only invitations i get from queue are people who invite you and then leave you alone inside the castle.
@pando for having dmg as a gwf u need perfect enchants (a least greater lightning for mobs and vorpal for bosses), top tier gear avatar, a very solid mouse.. cause u;ll need to cancel animation on your wms and luck with feats bugging and giving u 12 sec of extra power )
BUT ... when a group of players come out and say "this is broken and our class can no longer function", and another handful of players are consistently topping charts, running CN/MC just fine and kicking butt in PvP, with the very same class that they are saying is broke ... what do you call that?
Oh, their opinion and experiences are simply invalid because ... what?
Our class definitely has problems. Namely, AP gain and Unstoppable bugging. But in my experiences, it's not broken and it's still effective and strong. I have that opinion because when I play, my character is not broken and is still doing what he's supposed to do. Just because I'm not as superior as I once was (which Cryptic and many other classes obviously thought was overpowered and breaking the balance of the game), doesn't mean I'm not superior now.
From my perspective, it seems more likely that players are complaining because the OP class they once had has been reduced to a regularly powerful class, and instead of working to improve their game and adapting with the class, they decided to trash their GWF's and complain about it ... loudly ... hoping against all logic and reason that their tantrum will get them what they want.
I have that perspective, and opinion, after watching almost two decades of MMO forums. 'Squeaky wheel gets the grease.' The average poster is NOT trying to be fair and balanced, but is incredibly biased and sometimes even outright malicious in destroying what others have or gaining more for themselves. They'll ask to nerf everyone else's class, and buff their own. Who is to know what quality of person sits behind that keyboard. Could be an immature person incapable of logic and reason. Heaven's knows there are so many of them anonymously stalking the internet that a good dozen of them could end up here.
And you can tell when someone has a good, thought out argument, too. The words they use, the points and counterpoints they make, etc. Trash talking, yelling, base accusations and denials? That's not a solid foundation, and someone who likes to debate like myself will continue to destroy the soapbox they stand on because they don't have two real facts to rub together.
When players point out specific instances, like what you are linking, it is an issue that Cryptic should settle. IF they can figure out if it's actually happening (remember, players aren't all saints and many lie *gasp*). Or WHEN they can figure out what's causing it (remember, devs are sometimes staring the problem right in the face and don't know it).
Plus, wouldn't the game, each time you log in, figure those attributes and possibly bug out? Wouldn't even the 'good' GWF's notice really bad days when everything isn't working for them? How could it bug out on an individual basis, if it's a random occurrence ... if it IS a random occurrence, who knows?
I can prove my claim to any skeptic. All they need to do is let me know when they will be in PE on my server (Beholder) and invite me to a party (Hartark@belprah), so that we can head over to the dummies, equipped with a stopwatch and keen eyes on the buffs underneath my character portrait. I've tested this repeatedly over several days, from when I first observed it, to the day after, when I recorded it (to prove I'm not making it up) and finally to right now, when I checked it yet again, just to see if, by some miracle, it has fixed itself. It hasn't.
It's a fact that I can demonstrate to anyone, easily, as many times as their skepticism requires, in order to shred any suspicion of being "unsaintly" and that it does indeed stick around, at least for me, no matter how many times I log in and out. A fact like this would obviously lead to a gap in performance between 2 GWFs, with all other things (gear, skill, spec) being equal, except for the bug. A gap that can only grow wider, if there are more feats and skills that give more to some and less to others, due to nothing else but inexplicable and stupid bugs. It also leads to having a skewed perspective and experiences, leading a portion of people to maintain a "it's fine, l2p" opinion, while others are left dissatisfied and frustrated. Thus, one can no longer claim it is a "l2p" issue - you just don't know how and where the disgruntled player has it different from you.
"Trash talking, yelling, base accusations and denials" definitely aren't a solid foundation for a discussion, I agree... but neither is a "you need to l2p" attitude, which I personally find to be incredibly elitist and condescending. As others have already pointed out to other posters, it does nothing but aggravate a discussion. Especially when they provide scarce, if any at all, details on how they managed it, as if it's a secret to be closely guarded from mere plebeians like me.
I can prove my claim to any skeptic. All they need to do is let me know when they will be in PE on my server (Beholder) and invite me to a party (Hartark@belprah), so that we can head over to the dummies, equipped with a stopwatch and keen eyes on the buffs underneath my character portrait. I've tested this repeatedly over several days, from when I first observed it, to the day after, when I recorded it (to prove I'm not making it up) and finally to right now, when I checked it yet again, just to see if, by some miracle, it has fixed itself. It hasn't.
It's a fact that I can demonstrate to anyone, easily, as many times as their skepticism requires, in order to shred any suspicion of being "unsaintly" and that it does indeed stick around, at least for me, no matter how many times I log in and out. A fact like this would obviously lead to a gap in performance between 2 GWFs, with all other things (gear, skill, spec) being equal, except for the bug. A gap that can only grow wider, if there are more feats and skills that give more to some and less to others, due to nothing else but inexplicable and stupid bugs. It also leads to having a skewed perspective and experiences, leading a portion of people to maintain a "it's fine, l2p" opinion, while others are left dissatisfied and frustrated. Thus, one can no longer claim it is a "l2p" issue - you just don't know how and where the disgruntled player has it different from you.
"Trash talking, yelling, base accusations and denials" definitely aren't a solid foundation for a discussion, I agree... but neither is a "you need to l2p" attitude, which I personally find to be incredibly elitist and condescending. As others have already pointed out to other posters, it does nothing but aggravate a discussion. Especially when they provide scarce, if any at all, details on how they managed it, as if it's a secret to be closely guarded from mere plebeians like me.
If it's that consistent, it sounds like a failure in a feat being added somewhere or not having the right tooltip. We all know there are several GWF feats that, for whatever reason, don't do what they are supposed to. One that I use says it will give me a certain amount of deflection, but that bonus doesn't show on the character sheet. It does, apparently (according to testers) show in the combat logs. So the feat works, but many avoid it because it appears bugged.
It sounds to me like you've got a feat that says it works, but actually is bugged and doesn't. Another on the long list of REAL problems we're having as a class.
We do have issues. We're not completely broken, but there are bugs that need fixed for sure.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
@pando for having dmg as a gwf u need perfect enchants (a least greater lightning for mobs and vorpal for bosses), top tier gear avatar, a very solid mouse.. cause u;ll need to cancel animation on your wms and luck with feats bugging and giving u 12 sec of extra power )
I already shift-cancel on my WMS. I also cancel IBS using sprint to trick more experienced CWs in PvP.
If a class needs perfect enchants to deal damage (which means, you have to spend a ****load of AD/ money, then something is broken. Other classes sure do not need perfect enchants and top tier gear to deal damage. If they have such gear they deal much more damage and are monsters. A GWF needs such stuff to just be decent or good enough?
I already shift-cancel on my WMS. I also cancel IBS using sprint to trick more experienced CWs in PvP.
If a class needs perfect enchants to deal damage (which means, you have to spend a ****load of AD/ money, then something is broken. Other classes sure do not need perfect enchants and top tier gear to deal damage. If they have such gear they deal much more damage and are monsters. A GWF needs such stuff to just be decent or good enough?
It seems is the way they want us to play the class. Shift from recovery to power with canceling animation and use of stamina, battle fury?!, and ofc double the hits, double the enchant procs and so the efficiency of the enchants is alot bigger then for other classes, also we have alot of hits due to steel blitz so we kinda proc the enchant 4 times faster then other classes.
Comments
Ok: yes, my GS raised from 8.9k to 9.3-9.4k just changing the feats to sentinel.
As destroyer i have to admit i didn't do a very good build:
I got unstoppable action, which is useless to me. Simple: unstoppable lowers your encounters damage by 10%. And you gain AP using encounters. If you've to lose 10% damage to gain more AP, it's not Worth it to me. Also, i got the first 2 instigator feats (5% healing with unstoppable and stunning flourish) to try and imitate the stunlock build. But on the other side i maxed the destroyer path and left out the first sentinel feat (15% def reduction upon critical, stacks 3 times). Bad move. Destroyer purpose is not Worth it. I tried a build that could be able to deal damage, stun enemies and survive thanks to fast determination gain and heavy unstoppable usage. Thing is, with just 24k hp i got in this build, in PvP you don't go anywhere. You've to play like a rogue, and if you walk into the brawl you can use unstoppable 1 time, may be 2, then you're dead. A rogue can tank more than you with ITC, dodges and smoke screen.
May be at higher GS it's different, but i doubt. I got 26 str, 16 con and 21 dex.
Changed it, trading constitution for unstoppable action, and again constitution (don't remember the name) for steel defense. My power went from 3.5k to 3k. Then got 1st instigator feat, 1st destroyer feat and full sentinel. My AC went from 28 to 34. HP from 24k to 29k. Survivability raised A LOT. On the other side, i missed just 500 power (20 damage), deep gash (that's a miss) and the 25% recovery into ArP feat (don't remember the name). Didn't get focused destroyer, may be that was a mistake too.
In the end i didn't lose much damage if nothing at all, and increased survivability a lot. My destroyer build was surely not good, but the 500 GS gain and increased effectiveness to me is due to the other 2 paths being much less effective than sentinel. Also, i didn't go for full sentinel. I won't stack regen or try and reach 37k hp, or stack tenebrous. I'm trying a half way build, with enough survivability to tank a lot but good damage (trying to focus on crit to make more damage and make max use of the 1st sentinel feat ( i have 95% crit damage. Left behind the 1% crit chance in heroic feat cause i think 5% more damage is better than just 1% more chance).
Also i use heroic duelist set. It's easy to get and the bonus is good. Or to be honest, would be good. 10% heal, added to the 5% of the feat, considering you use unstoppable all the time, is a good thing in PvP. Too bad it does not work that way. It heals 1% HP per second during unstoppable. Which means at best you heal by 8%. But still looks better than every other set bonuses. Even more if you have high HP.
My tactic in dungeons was to run ahead of my Group, pop slam and WMS to clear the trash and soften the minibosses. With steely defense passive i got 5 sec invulnerability during slam, which was good to tank before my Group could reach me. WMS also debuffed the mobs. If my Group was not there yet when invulnerability dropped, i could just pop unstoppable to tank a bit more. At that point my Group was there. Next move was to use IBS to mark mobs and deal some damage with single target encounters (mobs were scattered all over the place after the party arrived). That way i was 2nd in damage and kills usually.
Right now i tried this AoE rotation: come and get it, spinning strike if i have it up, not so fast, WMS spam. Then IBS to mark mobs. First results are... last in damage, or almost last in damage... even with destroyer and master of arms slotted.
Still trying to figure out what to do in PvE to deal consistent AoE damage.
Other than that, considering i'm still building my gear and decided to do not enchant anything until i can craft some grade 7 stuff, in PvP i have no problems.
Finding parties is another story. As i said, i'd love to run CN and find the ancient greatsword myself, without paying 800k AD for it in the AH. But the only invitations i get from queue are people who invite you and then leave you alone inside the castle.
It's a fact that I can demonstrate to anyone, easily, as many times as their skepticism requires, in order to shred any suspicion of being "unsaintly" and that it does indeed stick around, at least for me, no matter how many times I log in and out. A fact like this would obviously lead to a gap in performance between 2 GWFs, with all other things (gear, skill, spec) being equal, except for the bug. A gap that can only grow wider, if there are more feats and skills that give more to some and less to others, due to nothing else but inexplicable and stupid bugs. It also leads to having a skewed perspective and experiences, leading a portion of people to maintain a "it's fine, l2p" opinion, while others are left dissatisfied and frustrated. Thus, one can no longer claim it is a "l2p" issue - you just don't know how and where the disgruntled player has it different from you.
"Trash talking, yelling, base accusations and denials" definitely aren't a solid foundation for a discussion, I agree... but neither is a "you need to l2p" attitude, which I personally find to be incredibly elitist and condescending. As others have already pointed out to other posters, it does nothing but aggravate a discussion. Especially when they provide scarce, if any at all, details on how they managed it, as if it's a secret to be closely guarded from mere plebeians like me.
If it's that consistent, it sounds like a failure in a feat being added somewhere or not having the right tooltip. We all know there are several GWF feats that, for whatever reason, don't do what they are supposed to. One that I use says it will give me a certain amount of deflection, but that bonus doesn't show on the character sheet. It does, apparently (according to testers) show in the combat logs. So the feat works, but many avoid it because it appears bugged.
It sounds to me like you've got a feat that says it works, but actually is bugged and doesn't. Another on the long list of REAL problems we're having as a class.
We do have issues. We're not completely broken, but there are bugs that need fixed for sure.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
I already shift-cancel on my WMS. I also cancel IBS using sprint to trick more experienced CWs in PvP.
If a class needs perfect enchants to deal damage (which means, you have to spend a ****load of AD/ money, then something is broken. Other classes sure do not need perfect enchants and top tier gear to deal damage. If they have such gear they deal much more damage and are monsters. A GWF needs such stuff to just be decent or good enough?
It seems is the way they want us to play the class. Shift from recovery to power with canceling animation and use of stamina, battle fury?!, and ofc double the hits, double the enchant procs and so the efficiency of the enchants is alot bigger then for other classes, also we have alot of hits due to steel blitz so we kinda proc the enchant 4 times faster then other classes.