You came to the forums saying that your character is busted and I have tried time and time again to give you a solution. You are so set in your ways that you refuse to listen to help. Destroyer is much better and I can help you fix your problem and get you back to the top.
Look at the Destroyer tree and compare it some time to instigator. I will post my entire build here if you want.
I don't need your help. I need AP. You preaching to the world that everything is fine and dandy is not helping. You generate AP faster than Sentinel or Instigator DUE to your reduced cooldowns. Your role now gains AP faster than the other two roles and there is not a thing we can do about it. So how about you take a step back and try and understand that AP generation for the other two roles are now in the crapper and the only reason you are not feeling the burn is because of your feats. Feats which are too far up in the tree for anything but hybrid specs or a pure Destroyer spec.
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seisem2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I don't need your help. I need AP. You preaching to the world that everything is fine and dandy is not helping. You generate AP faster than Sentinel or Instigator DUE to your reduced cooldowns. Your role now gains AP faster than the other two roles and there is not a thing we can do about it. So how about you take a step back and try and understand that AP generation for the other two roles are now in the crapper and the only reason you are not feeling the burn is because of your feats. Feats which are too far up in the tree for anything but hybrid specs or a pure Destroyer spec.
You want to build AP for what Daily? None of our dailys are that great. Slam has been nerfed to infinity.
The most damage comes from unstoppable + spamming WMS at will on groups of mobs.
You want to build AP for what Daily? None of our dailys are that great. Slam has been nerfed to infinity.
The most damage comes from unstoppable + spamming WMS at will on groups of mobs.
Removed slam long ago except for pvp. That was before they even put up the reduction on the test shard. I run Crescendo for single target and Avalanche for unlimited targets. Pushing close to 50% crit and currently 115% crit severity (soon 128%) makes Avalanche the daily to use. Nothing like seeing 12k - 20k crits (depending on debuffs) on every mob. Now give me back AP.
Edit:slam for pvp
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seisem2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited September 2013
Unstoppable + WMS for 2 seconds will out damage 1 daily of Avalanche
Yeah sure, against a single target. Add another 10 targets and tell my how your logic fails.
I'm talking about a group of adds. 2 seconds of untoppable (that I can proc every 2-3 seconds) plus WMS with lightning enchant on a group of mobs >>>>>> 1 daily that takes you forever to generate. The dps is through the roof.
I'm talking about a group of adds. 2 seconds of untoppable (that I can proc every 2-3 seconds) plus WMS with lightning enchant on a group of mobs >>>>>> 1 daily that takes you forever to generate. The dps is through the roof.
When you are pushing over 40% crit chance then vorpal is better. There is a few older threads that discuss this in great detail. Now I will say that I will be slotting greater lightning in the new weapon set just for the flashy effects and pvp. Nothing like lagging out the other team.
You gave me a great test though.
Greater Lightning and unlimited targets may well be an increase. Will be testing that in the future.
When you are pushing over 40% crit chance then vorpal is better. There is a few older threads that discuss this in great detail. Now I will say that I will be slotting greater lightning in the new weapon set just for the flashy effects and pvp. Nothing like lagging out the other team.
You gave me a great test though.
Greater Lightning and unlimited targets may well be an increase. Will be testing that in the future.
Why are you so conservative and stubborn. WMS doesn't apply to every target(max 5 at once), and it gives your at wills 25% more dmg, same as your wicked, but wait if you no wms you got no 25% so your at the end only getting 25%.
Why are you so conservative and stubborn. WMS doesn't apply to every target(max 5 at once), and it gives your at wills 25% more dmg, same as your wicked, but wait if you no wms you got no 25% so your at the end only getting 25%.
You realize that we were on a different subject in regards to vorpal over lightning right? I'm well aware of our at-wills and how they interact. Sure call me stubborn. I'm only asking for AP generation to be reversed/tweaked or improved. Nothing more.
Hello,
I read 15 pages but all for that you talk are few things:
You want buff/dps for GWF.
You want tank's (GWF and GF) to be more wanted.
You said all the time that CW is OP but you do not want it to be nerf.
I do not know why you do not see where is exactly the problem. You want different classes in your parties - so the solution is simple:
Nerf the CW defense or survivability. Why ?
If devs do it then CW will die easy and all will start to looking for tanks. If you just back DPS on GWF this will not change much because people already know that 3-4 CW can do most dungs fast and easy.
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About the GWF I play it from soon and that I see is strange and stupid.
With full blue stuff (except sword from pvp) I do more DPS than other with full purple (9,7k vs 12k) which one make gear score bul**** as in all other MMOs.
With about 4800 crit rate I have (37-38%), is it strange for me how TR with 1800 crit rate have (40%) for me this is waste of item points and very wrong from the devs side. Yes with TR buff and Weapon Master I go after few hits on 52%+ crit rate but this is other story and cannot compensate the item points that I waste for it.
Because this up I think that one of the main problems on GWF is the crit rate percent and not AP generation. OK, I know that I am newbie in this game and I can to be wrong but for moment this is my point of view. But I will test and other builds in future for me all is just matter of time.
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At the end, that I know from my experience in MMOs is that that people want in the end of all:
To do dungeon as much as possible faster !!!
And If for this is needed they to make party from 3-4-5 identical classes - they will do it. So nerf CW defense or survivability and this will fix much things in the game. Other option is as someone other said nerf CW AoE but this can to destroy the class and because that it is not so good option.
And If for this is needed they to make party from 3-4-5 identical classes - they will do it. So nerf CW defense or survivability and this will fix much things in the game. Other option is as someone other said nerf CW AoE but this can to destroy the class and because that it is not so good option.
What if we started to talk about BUFFing GWF rather then NERFING other classes, if you buff, you will improve GWF against all classes. If you nerf, you will buff all other classes against the nerfed one.
And about nerfing CW defence - it could be good if there was a single class capable of holding threat. And GWF isnt one, the AoE damage is 5 target caped and rather small area, this would send GWF to graveyard, because GF would take the one random spot left.
The only possible way is to give all mobs CC immunity like in other games to prevent CW stacking and smokebomb tanking, that however is against all PvE concepts.
Guys you do realize that one of the main reasons why the CW is stacked in groups isn't just because of the AoE damage output but because of the control factor right? All damage aside, if a group of adds is constantly stunned/vacuumed up/frozen, then the entire groups survivability goes up dramatically. This is an aspect that no class whatsoever can compete with at all. I don't care how good you think you are, or how good your gear score is the fact remains that no tanking, no healing, no DPSing can even come close to the benefiting a group as much as crowds of adds rendered incapacitated.
My question would be then why are you arguing for a change up of classes so vehemently when it is blatantly obvious that this game suffers from incredibly poor monster design? I mean come on, as an example a CW can use ice and frost powers against winter wolves and frost giants and do damage? Seriously?
I think alot of the issue could be fixed if certain monsters were resistant to different things, had different behaviors in combat and chose different targets based on abilities. Imagine if the Illithids and brain dogs in the dread vault were scripted to attack magic users first because they fed off of their power or any plaguetouched creature for that matter. Imagine if some monsters had inherent spell resistance or resistance to certain types of damage. Imagine if enemy healing adds gained some sort of cleansing ability as well. You start changing the formula for the content up and there will be no need to "nerf" the classes at all as the natural demand will slowly begin to gravitate towards the diverse group rather than the caster cabals.
Point is, it's not just the class designs that need to be addressed. This game as a whole suffers from poor implementation and lack of creativity on the content side of things as well.
Caexar, you make a very good point. If they made different mobs target different classes, there could be all melee teams farming spellplague, and all spell casting teams farming Castle Never. Then they can post their loot in the AH for the other classes to buy them. Sergeant Knox should also turn undead every hour and become a boss fight so people in town have something to do.
You are welcome to try and beat my build in PVE dkcandy. Mindflayer shard any time.
I'm on mindflayer also what is your in-game character name. i'll look you up tonight and see if we can get you in an MC run. Then I'll be able to compare your damage to other GWF's I've ran with.
because of the control factor right? All damage aside, if a group of adds is constantly stunned/vacuumed up/frozen, then the entire groups survivability goes up dramatically.
100% Correct. The big issue is many CW's think they are a DPS class and not control when their names are even "Control" Wizards. You want high AP generation so you can spam those Sing's and allow your GF/GWF/TR's to burn the trash down and your runs will speed up drastically.
Don't use repel or meatball if you are knocking mobs away from your DPS or scattering them. I've had to kick many CW's from runs because they just don't understand the concept of team damage.
Guys you do realize that one of the main reasons why the CW is stacked in groups isn't just because of the AoE damage output but because of the control factor right? All damage aside, if a group of adds is constantly stunned/vacuumed up/frozen, then the entire groups survivability goes up dramatically. This is an aspect that no class whatsoever can compete with at all. I don't care how good you think you are, or how good your gear score is the fact remains that no tanking, no healing, no DPSing can even come close to the benefiting a group as much as crowds of adds rendered incapacitated.
My question would be then why are you arguing for a change up of classes so vehemently when it is blatantly obvious that this game suffers from incredibly poor monster design? I mean come on, as an example a CW can use ice and frost powers against winter wolves and frost giants and do damage? Seriously?
l.
This is why a pve sentinel cries after roar, i needed that ap gain to use my skills so i can be immune / generate threat and tank large crowds so cw could do dmg instead of CC. Now i cant do anything as a sentinel in pve and that little change kinda rendered useless all my enchants ,since i used recovery , also set, same reason... cause before there was a rotation and in pve u kinda have to use things like charge since your shift is not a reliable thing, also u need Daring Shout .. and leaves u now with what? IBS for AP gain since roar is no longer working.. problem with ibs is that u need to kill the target in order to receive the ap.. so useless. Did try a run after patch and i think if dc tried a little more he could pass me in dps. Is that bad what happend.
100% Correct. The big issue is many CW's think they are a DPS class and not control when their names are even "Control" Wizards. You want high AP generation so you can spam those Sing's and allow your GF/GWF/TR's to burn the trash down and your runs will speed up drastically.
Don't use repel or meatball if you are knocking mobs away from your DPS or scattering them. I've had to kick many CW's from runs because they just don't understand the concept of team damage.
The meatball as you refer to can crit for 50k, sorry but I'm not going to stop using it just for your benefit, plus it prones all of the mobs that it hits. Our fastest method of generating AP is by doing damage. The days of perma singularity are over and in many cases its better for us to use Oppressive Force as it offers immediate CC rather than having to wait for the mobs to be sucked up by singularity. Mobs are still able to cast their AoEs up until singularity finally pulls them into the air.
I love the "CWs think they are a dps class" comment when you guys are saying the same thing about yourselves. Both classes do AoE damage along with their other roles.
One other thing that I need to clear the air about. So many of you say that CWs have godly CC. We have Steal Time, Icy Terrain, Entangling Force, and Shard of the Endless Avalanche for encounter CC abilities. Icy Terrain freezes mobs once they get 6 stacks of chill on them, but parties generally attack those mobs and immediately break them out so its a pretty crappy CC. Entangling Force only CCs a single target which doesn't help a whole lot against a swarm of mobs. Steal Time is really our best CC as its an AoE stun. SotEA (or meatball as you call it) is in my opinion our second best encounter CC. My point is that it's impossible for a single CW to control mobs permanently. Our AoE CCs don't last for more than a few seconds at a time and then we've immediately got every mob wanting to smash our face. Yet another reason I laugh at anyone that says we have high defense or are at less risk than GWFs.
With what I said above it means you either need to bring several CWs to rotate CCs or have a tank to keep the adds focusing them while the CW has no CC abilities available. It's obvious that tanks in this game, especially GWFs need a buff to their tanking abilities so that bringing multiple CWs isn't the easiest method of managing mobs.
For kidbs: you keep saying that the GWF is a tank, and you treat it like a primary tank. it is not. It's a burst tank, and it's intended to work as a secondary tank. And work like that. Main GWF stat is strenght (devs note), not con. Yeah: strenght. For damge.
Also, class description given by devs:
"The Great Weapon Fighter is an unstoppable force of damage and steel, skilled in using the weight of a greatsword to dispatch those that stand in the way. The epitome of strength, the Great Weapon Fighter is also resilient enough to defend allies in need."
You read it? "the epitome of strenght" and "resilient ENOUGH to defend the allies IN NEED". It's not the description of a class who's primary role is the one of a tank. It's a damage dealer.
So if you don't play one, you already can figure this out from the descriptions. If you play one, you understand that what you write is nonsense. You and copti, to me, are just a couple of CWs (as you both stated) that don't want their class to lose the crown of both best cc class and best AoE DPS class.
For the ones who actually try to find a solution to the problem, rather than to negate it:
I find it a very good idea the one of different mobs having different resistances so that the cc does not affect oll the mobs indiscriminately, and CWs are actually forced to use strategy and parited are pushed to bring all classes into a dungeon.
The point is, as everyone said, right now the best choice in a dungeon are piled up CWs. While the best choice should be 1 of each class, with parties adding more than 1 member per class only if they have no choice.
The mobs redesign is a starting point. Still, GWFs would have no primary role, and a second CW would still be a better choice. No need to nerf the CWs if yopu want, but then GWF AoE damage should be boosted. I stick to this: to give GWFs a role that only they can do in a dungeon, you've to make them the primary AoE DPS. Else, they will still be a bit of a tank, a bit of a AoE DPS, a bit of a ST DPS. And if a party wants another AoE DPSrs, another tank, or another ST DPS, they call respectively: a second CW, or a second GF or a second TR.
Changing just the mobs design would force parties to call a tank and a st DPS if CWs can't cc all the mobs all the time. But a GWF would still be left behind and seen as not needed.
kidbs, you make good points about cw. Post patch, the best cw's I've seen now just toss mobs all around the map to avoid being hit by them. They can't cast enough singularity to rely on that to stay alive. Sadly that is a recipe for bad gf/gwf damage.
The meatball as you refer to can crit for 50k, sorry but I'm not going to stop using it just for your benefit, plus it prones all of the mobs that it hits. Our fastest method of generating AP is by doing damage.
The issue is majority of CW's do not know how to properly use meatball and scatter the mobs all over the place drastically lowering team DPS. Turning a fight from AoE trash burning to single target chasing.
Good CW's know how to properly place Sing and how to properly use meatball. If you are not able to use meatball properly and scattering the mobs all over the place don't use it! The run will go a lot faster.
The issue is majority of CW's do not know how to properly use meatball and scatter the mobs all over the place drastically lowering team DPS. Turning a fight from AoE trash burning to single target chasing.
Good CW's know how to properly place Sing and how to properly use meatball. If you are not able to use meatball properly and scattering the mobs all over the place don't use it! The run will go a lot faster.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche ("meatball") actually doesn't knock mobs very far. Shield pop, repel, GF knockback (frontline surge I think it is), and the DC burst ability all scatter mobs much further. The bad CWs are the ones who still use shield pop and randomly use repel.
@Pando
Dude, there are no half-tanks, half-healers, half anything in this game when it comes to utility roles. You can keep saying that your class isn't meant to be a tank all you want, but that's not going to make it so. You're not a striker class which is what is considered to be a primary damage dealer. I don't care if your primary stat is strength. A CW's primary stat is Int which is their main damage stat... doesn't make us primary damage dealers either. Accept your utility role or forever be disappointed that you're not playing a striker class.
It's funny that you keep calling CWs controllers and not primary AoE damage dealers, but you'll happily declare your class as being the annointed special case that should rightfully be topping damage as a non-striker and that your utility role is really just secondary and can basically be ignored. And read this before you try to stick words in my mouth... I AM NOT SAYING THAT CWs DESERVE TO BE #1 IN DAMAGE EITHER.
I'm sorry to say this but you're just stupid if you think that buffing GWF damage is going to get you into parties. You're completely clueless if you think that your damage output is what is limiting you from getting group invites.
EDIT - Panda I noticed in your other thread you say that you're topping dps meters again except for some "OP" CWs. Sounds like you're entire basis for your rage is being butthurt over losing out to some CWs in runs. If you're topping meters most of the time are you really going to be so angry over losing once in a while?
Shard of the Endless Avalanche ("meatball") actually doesn't knock mobs very far. Shield pop, repel, GF knockback (frontline surge I think it is), and the DC burst ability all scatter mobs much further.
You still don't get it do you... Mobs in a tight bunch for AoE or scattered for single target.
Only GOOD CW's know how to properly place their sing to bunch up mobs and how to properly use meatball. The bad CW's get asked to not use meatball or are kicked after a couple pulls.
You still don't get it do you... Mobs in a tight bunch for AoE or scattered for single target.
Only GOOD CW's know how to properly place their sing to bunch up mobs and how to properly use meatball. The bad CW's get asked to not use meatball or are kicked after a couple pulls.
Of course I get it. I'm just saying that SotEA doesn't knock mobs very far in comparison to the things that we use to use and the mobs run right back. In fact it barely does more than knock them down. The bottom line is it is one of our CC abilities and one of the hardest hitting attacks in the game. I can easily one-shot a pack of smaller mobs with it. AP takes a good while to build up now for CWs and I'm not going to sit around waiting for singularity to be ready.
For kidbs: you keep saying that the GWF is a tank, and you treat it like a primary tank. it is not. It's a burst tank, and it's intended to work as a secondary tank. And work like that. Main GWF stat is strenght (devs note), not con. Yeah: strenght. For damge.
Also, class description given by devs:
You read it? "the epitome of strenght" and "resilient ENOUGH to defend the allies IN NEED". It's not the description of a class who's primary role is the one of a tank. It's a damage dealer.
So if you don't play one, you already can figure this out from the descriptions. If you play one, you understand that what you write is nonsense. You and copti, to me, are just a couple of CWs (as you both stated) that don't want their class to lose the crown of both best cc class and best AoE DPS class.
For the ones who actually try to find a solution to the problem, rather than to negate it:
I find it a very good idea the one of different mobs having different resistances so that the cc does not affect oll the mobs indiscriminately, and CWs are actually forced to use strategy and parited are pushed to bring all classes into a dungeon.
The point is, as everyone said, right now the best choice in a dungeon are piled up CWs. While the best choice should be 1 of each class, with parties adding more than 1 member per class only if they have no choice.
The mobs redesign is a starting point. Still, GWFs would have no primary role, and a second CW would still be a better choice. No need to nerf the CWs if yopu want, but then GWF AoE damage should be boosted. I stick to this: to give GWFs a role that only they can do in a dungeon, you've to make them the primary AoE DPS. Else, they will still be a bit of a tank, a bit of a AoE DPS, a bit of a ST DPS. And if a party wants another AoE DPSrs, another tank, or another ST DPS, they call respectively: a second CW, or a second GF or a second TR.
Changing just the mobs design would force parties to call a tank and a st DPS if CWs can't cc all the mobs all the time. But a GWF would still be left behind and seen as not needed.
That's what i think.
Your problem is that you read too much, you assume too much, and you are basing your arguments on both, which have absolutely no basis in reality. If you actually experiment with all the facets of the class, you might see GWFs in a different light. I am not saying you will see them as OP and in dire need of a nerf, but learn about their strengths and making a more sensible plee with regards to their shortcomings. GWFs are 110% >>>>FULL TANKS<<<<, not half tanks, off-tanks, or sorta-tanks, and can fulfill this role in ANY spec, only if they know what they are doing. If you or any other players feel it is not possible, then that's your own shortcomings, not the class. GWFs are 100% AoE class who CAN and DO dish out good damage. If you or other players do not believe it is so, then again, it is your own shortcomings. Stop reading tooltips and meaningless class descriptions and play the game in its current state. I do not see you on the DC forum chastising DPS DC players for not following the description of their class.
You wanted to bring me in the conversation, then you got it. First of all I would like to apologize for rolling a CW as my very first class. I really am. It seems that this is an issue for you and others that for some freaky reason use it as a basis for an argument. You make it a point to always bring it up as if it has ANY relevance.
You're making a fool of yourself by also assuming that I am sabotaging the GWF class because I want to keep my CW CC+dps "crowns". Can an argument sound anymore pathetic? So I spend hours leveling a second class (and I also have a 3rd 60, so I will be sabotaging DCs next), buy an augment pet for it, gear it up and farm/clear T2 content with it, spend millions of AD on it, continue to play it and waste even more time running dailies farming crescents and whatnot, running MC daily on both classes to get the fragments, coming here trying in VEIN to relay my honest experience with the class, taking <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> from you and your likes about my "hidden agenda", alllllllll this so I can keep the CW class where it is?! So out of everything I said in the previous posts, this is the conclusion you come up with? And you want me to take your point of view about the GWF class seriously?
You're more pathetic to even consider for a moment that a Dev is actually following this ridiculous thread with all its melodramatic and exaggerated statements about GWFs, and actually taking your comments seriously. Yea I can see the next patch notes: We recently unraveled a conspiracy by some Forum members to keep CWs on top of the food chain and as a result we are nerfing CWs and buffing GWFs.....lol The class does have some issues, and I repeatedly, like a broken record, have acknowledged them. Sensible players would create a thread and discuss these issues based on facts and experience, and even suggest sound changes. Check the rest of the forum, there are quite a few threads like that. This one however, from its sarcastic cry baby title, to the exaggerated issues and posts littered with incorrect information, is nothing but a wall of QQing.
Anyone who thinks the class is utter garbage, shouldnt waste one extra second playing it. You should promptly jump onto the class you feel will bring you the biggest satisfaction. If the vast majority of the GWF community feels the same way and does that, then maybe Cryptic will take notice and make a change. I along with all the nut-jobs that feel GWFs are viable and fun to play, will continue doing what we're doing and if/when the class gets buffed, will be even happier.
I am only asking 'Devs' to fix the following;
1) AP per target returned or at least adjusted.
2) Fix Deep Gash/Punishing Charge interaction. Verifiable in the Trade of Blades.
3) Instigator capstone. Useless for soloing.
4) Unstoppable bugging out when CCed during initial cast of Unstoppable.
Not asking for much. Just some quality of life improvements.
Side note: I want a straw hat skin and a two handed rake or two handed hoe skin.
Nothing like running around looking like an innocent farmer until someone gets hit with his 'rake'.
I would agree with some of the counter points here: it's not our class that is really messed up, it's the way the PvE is settled.
Look at us in PvP. I did well as a destroyer (excellent damage, tank was okay) and better as a sentinel (now I hold positions and play 'speed bump' till my mates arrive, but have a harder time killing than before). Both also worked fine for me in dungeons, though I will be the first to recognize that some bosses just need a good TR to toast them, and while I can tank just fine, I'm not as good as a GF.
But if you (cryptic) played with the mobs a bit? It could really finish out the job.
- Set up choke points where a good rogue in stealth can make it easier for the whole party (I mean intended mechanics, not glitches). Like lowering a bridge or assassinating a watchmen.
- Focus archers on CW's, then healers, instead of letting them be judged by the aggro mechanism.
- Have certain mobs that actually get stronger if the wrong CC is used on them. Like Ice Elementals reacting to ice, or air elementals being untouched by sing.
- Add more environmental effects and hazards which, possibly with a well-timed swing of a big sword, can be stopped.
- Give the mobs a reason to focus on the tank. Like, a legitimate reason.
Just some quick ideas is all.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
Let's be honest here, the vast majority of players do not know a good gwf, they lead more by aesthetics than by factual description of the class. See themselves as a "rogue resistant" obvious reason for frustration.
Much is made of the players that exclude gwf of partys. The VAST MAJORITY of these players are not good either. Since my 9/10k without allure or something, I took many of them in the back, and only at the end of dungeons due recognition.
Now if you know how to prepare a building, you will realize that there is a CLEAR disadvantage of this class to all the other, a disadvantage which has increased even more due to this **** pvp.
* I will insist on this suggestion: in addition to reverse this nonsense they did with the "roar", add the possibility of "steel bitz" cause "interupt". This change, for those who understand what entails not only increase damage gwf as the rogues.
Comments
I don't need your help. I need AP. You preaching to the world that everything is fine and dandy is not helping. You generate AP faster than Sentinel or Instigator DUE to your reduced cooldowns. Your role now gains AP faster than the other two roles and there is not a thing we can do about it. So how about you take a step back and try and understand that AP generation for the other two roles are now in the crapper and the only reason you are not feeling the burn is because of your feats. Feats which are too far up in the tree for anything but hybrid specs or a pure Destroyer spec.
You want to build AP for what Daily? None of our dailys are that great. Slam has been nerfed to infinity.
The most damage comes from unstoppable + spamming WMS at will on groups of mobs.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
Removed slam long ago except for pvp. That was before they even put up the reduction on the test shard. I run Crescendo for single target and Avalanche for unlimited targets. Pushing close to 50% crit and currently 115% crit severity (soon 128%) makes Avalanche the daily to use. Nothing like seeing 12k - 20k crits (depending on debuffs) on every mob. Now give me back AP.
Edit:slam for pvp
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
Yeah sure, against a single target. Add another 10 targets and tell my how your logic fails.
I'm talking about a group of adds. 2 seconds of untoppable (that I can proc every 2-3 seconds) plus WMS with lightning enchant on a group of mobs >>>>>> 1 daily that takes you forever to generate. The dps is through the roof.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
When you are pushing over 40% crit chance then vorpal is better. There is a few older threads that discuss this in great detail. Now I will say that I will be slotting greater lightning in the new weapon set just for the flashy effects and pvp. Nothing like lagging out the other team.
You gave me a great test though.
Greater Lightning and unlimited targets may well be an increase. Will be testing that in the future.
Why are you so conservative and stubborn. WMS doesn't apply to every target(max 5 at once), and it gives your at wills 25% more dmg, same as your wicked, but wait if you no wms you got no 25% so your at the end only getting 25%.
They keep doing the same thing expecting a different result.
They are a very bad player and only think they are good and refuse to change to a build that works and is superior in damage.
Just ignore as they are a bad insane troll.
You realize that we were on a different subject in regards to vorpal over lightning right? I'm well aware of our at-wills and how they interact. Sure call me stubborn. I'm only asking for AP generation to be reversed/tweaked or improved. Nothing more.
I read 15 pages but all for that you talk are few things:
You want buff/dps for GWF.
You want tank's (GWF and GF) to be more wanted.
You said all the time that CW is OP but you do not want it to be nerf.
I do not know why you do not see where is exactly the problem. You want different classes in your parties - so the solution is simple:
Nerf the CW defense or survivability. Why ?
If devs do it then CW will die easy and all will start to looking for tanks. If you just back DPS on GWF this will not change much because people already know that 3-4 CW can do most dungs fast and easy.
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About the GWF I play it from soon and that I see is strange and stupid.
With full blue stuff (except sword from pvp) I do more DPS than other with full purple (9,7k vs 12k) which one make gear score bul**** as in all other MMOs.
With about 4800 crit rate I have (37-38%), is it strange for me how TR with 1800 crit rate have (40%) for me this is waste of item points and very wrong from the devs side. Yes with TR buff and Weapon Master I go after few hits on 52%+ crit rate but this is other story and cannot compensate the item points that I waste for it.
Because this up I think that one of the main problems on GWF is the crit rate percent and not AP generation. OK, I know that I am newbie in this game and I can to be wrong but for moment this is my point of view. But I will test and other builds in future for me all is just matter of time.
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At the end, that I know from my experience in MMOs is that that people want in the end of all:
To do dungeon as much as possible faster !!!
And If for this is needed they to make party from 3-4-5 identical classes - they will do it. So nerf CW defense or survivability and this will fix much things in the game. Other option is as someone other said nerf CW AoE but this can to destroy the class and because that it is not so good option.
What if we started to talk about BUFFing GWF rather then NERFING other classes, if you buff, you will improve GWF against all classes. If you nerf, you will buff all other classes against the nerfed one.
And about nerfing CW defence - it could be good if there was a single class capable of holding threat. And GWF isnt one, the AoE damage is 5 target caped and rather small area, this would send GWF to graveyard, because GF would take the one random spot left.
The only possible way is to give all mobs CC immunity like in other games to prevent CW stacking and smokebomb tanking, that however is against all PvE concepts.
My question would be then why are you arguing for a change up of classes so vehemently when it is blatantly obvious that this game suffers from incredibly poor monster design? I mean come on, as an example a CW can use ice and frost powers against winter wolves and frost giants and do damage? Seriously?
I think alot of the issue could be fixed if certain monsters were resistant to different things, had different behaviors in combat and chose different targets based on abilities. Imagine if the Illithids and brain dogs in the dread vault were scripted to attack magic users first because they fed off of their power or any plaguetouched creature for that matter. Imagine if some monsters had inherent spell resistance or resistance to certain types of damage. Imagine if enemy healing adds gained some sort of cleansing ability as well. You start changing the formula for the content up and there will be no need to "nerf" the classes at all as the natural demand will slowly begin to gravitate towards the diverse group rather than the caster cabals.
Point is, it's not just the class designs that need to be addressed. This game as a whole suffers from poor implementation and lack of creativity on the content side of things as well.
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
I'm on mindflayer also what is your in-game character name. i'll look you up tonight and see if we can get you in an MC run. Then I'll be able to compare your damage to other GWF's I've ran with.
100% Correct. The big issue is many CW's think they are a DPS class and not control when their names are even "Control" Wizards. You want high AP generation so you can spam those Sing's and allow your GF/GWF/TR's to burn the trash down and your runs will speed up drastically.
Don't use repel or meatball if you are knocking mobs away from your DPS or scattering them. I've had to kick many CW's from runs because they just don't understand the concept of team damage.
This is why a pve sentinel cries after roar, i needed that ap gain to use my skills so i can be immune / generate threat and tank large crowds so cw could do dmg instead of CC. Now i cant do anything as a sentinel in pve and that little change kinda rendered useless all my enchants ,since i used recovery , also set, same reason... cause before there was a rotation and in pve u kinda have to use things like charge since your shift is not a reliable thing, also u need Daring Shout .. and leaves u now with what? IBS for AP gain since roar is no longer working.. problem with ibs is that u need to kill the target in order to receive the ap.. so useless. Did try a run after patch and i think if dc tried a little more he could pass me in dps. Is that bad what happend.
The meatball as you refer to can crit for 50k, sorry but I'm not going to stop using it just for your benefit, plus it prones all of the mobs that it hits. Our fastest method of generating AP is by doing damage. The days of perma singularity are over and in many cases its better for us to use Oppressive Force as it offers immediate CC rather than having to wait for the mobs to be sucked up by singularity. Mobs are still able to cast their AoEs up until singularity finally pulls them into the air.
I love the "CWs think they are a dps class" comment when you guys are saying the same thing about yourselves. Both classes do AoE damage along with their other roles.
One other thing that I need to clear the air about. So many of you say that CWs have godly CC. We have Steal Time, Icy Terrain, Entangling Force, and Shard of the Endless Avalanche for encounter CC abilities. Icy Terrain freezes mobs once they get 6 stacks of chill on them, but parties generally attack those mobs and immediately break them out so its a pretty crappy CC. Entangling Force only CCs a single target which doesn't help a whole lot against a swarm of mobs. Steal Time is really our best CC as its an AoE stun. SotEA (or meatball as you call it) is in my opinion our second best encounter CC. My point is that it's impossible for a single CW to control mobs permanently. Our AoE CCs don't last for more than a few seconds at a time and then we've immediately got every mob wanting to smash our face. Yet another reason I laugh at anyone that says we have high defense or are at less risk than GWFs.
With what I said above it means you either need to bring several CWs to rotate CCs or have a tank to keep the adds focusing them while the CW has no CC abilities available. It's obvious that tanks in this game, especially GWFs need a buff to their tanking abilities so that bringing multiple CWs isn't the easiest method of managing mobs.
Also, class description given by devs:
You read it? "the epitome of strenght" and "resilient ENOUGH to defend the allies IN NEED". It's not the description of a class who's primary role is the one of a tank. It's a damage dealer.
So if you don't play one, you already can figure this out from the descriptions. If you play one, you understand that what you write is nonsense. You and copti, to me, are just a couple of CWs (as you both stated) that don't want their class to lose the crown of both best cc class and best AoE DPS class.
For the ones who actually try to find a solution to the problem, rather than to negate it:
I find it a very good idea the one of different mobs having different resistances so that the cc does not affect oll the mobs indiscriminately, and CWs are actually forced to use strategy and parited are pushed to bring all classes into a dungeon.
The point is, as everyone said, right now the best choice in a dungeon are piled up CWs. While the best choice should be 1 of each class, with parties adding more than 1 member per class only if they have no choice.
The mobs redesign is a starting point. Still, GWFs would have no primary role, and a second CW would still be a better choice. No need to nerf the CWs if yopu want, but then GWF AoE damage should be boosted. I stick to this: to give GWFs a role that only they can do in a dungeon, you've to make them the primary AoE DPS. Else, they will still be a bit of a tank, a bit of a AoE DPS, a bit of a ST DPS. And if a party wants another AoE DPSrs, another tank, or another ST DPS, they call respectively: a second CW, or a second GF or a second TR.
Changing just the mobs design would force parties to call a tank and a st DPS if CWs can't cc all the mobs all the time. But a GWF would still be left behind and seen as not needed.
That's what i think.
The issue is majority of CW's do not know how to properly use meatball and scatter the mobs all over the place drastically lowering team DPS. Turning a fight from AoE trash burning to single target chasing.
Good CW's know how to properly place Sing and how to properly use meatball. If you are not able to use meatball properly and scattering the mobs all over the place don't use it! The run will go a lot faster.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche ("meatball") actually doesn't knock mobs very far. Shield pop, repel, GF knockback (frontline surge I think it is), and the DC burst ability all scatter mobs much further. The bad CWs are the ones who still use shield pop and randomly use repel.
@Pando
Dude, there are no half-tanks, half-healers, half anything in this game when it comes to utility roles. You can keep saying that your class isn't meant to be a tank all you want, but that's not going to make it so. You're not a striker class which is what is considered to be a primary damage dealer. I don't care if your primary stat is strength. A CW's primary stat is Int which is their main damage stat... doesn't make us primary damage dealers either. Accept your utility role or forever be disappointed that you're not playing a striker class.
It's funny that you keep calling CWs controllers and not primary AoE damage dealers, but you'll happily declare your class as being the annointed special case that should rightfully be topping damage as a non-striker and that your utility role is really just secondary and can basically be ignored. And read this before you try to stick words in my mouth... I AM NOT SAYING THAT CWs DESERVE TO BE #1 IN DAMAGE EITHER.
I'm sorry to say this but you're just stupid if you think that buffing GWF damage is going to get you into parties. You're completely clueless if you think that your damage output is what is limiting you from getting group invites.
EDIT - Panda I noticed in your other thread you say that you're topping dps meters again except for some "OP" CWs. Sounds like you're entire basis for your rage is being butthurt over losing out to some CWs in runs. If you're topping meters most of the time are you really going to be so angry over losing once in a while?
You still don't get it do you... Mobs in a tight bunch for AoE or scattered for single target.
Only GOOD CW's know how to properly place their sing to bunch up mobs and how to properly use meatball. The bad CW's get asked to not use meatball or are kicked after a couple pulls.
Of course I get it. I'm just saying that SotEA doesn't knock mobs very far in comparison to the things that we use to use and the mobs run right back. In fact it barely does more than knock them down. The bottom line is it is one of our CC abilities and one of the hardest hitting attacks in the game. I can easily one-shot a pack of smaller mobs with it. AP takes a good while to build up now for CWs and I'm not going to sit around waiting for singularity to be ready.
Your problem is that you read too much, you assume too much, and you are basing your arguments on both, which have absolutely no basis in reality. If you actually experiment with all the facets of the class, you might see GWFs in a different light. I am not saying you will see them as OP and in dire need of a nerf, but learn about their strengths and making a more sensible plee with regards to their shortcomings. GWFs are 110% >>>>FULL TANKS<<<<, not half tanks, off-tanks, or sorta-tanks, and can fulfill this role in ANY spec, only if they know what they are doing. If you or any other players feel it is not possible, then that's your own shortcomings, not the class. GWFs are 100% AoE class who CAN and DO dish out good damage. If you or other players do not believe it is so, then again, it is your own shortcomings. Stop reading tooltips and meaningless class descriptions and play the game in its current state. I do not see you on the DC forum chastising DPS DC players for not following the description of their class.
You wanted to bring me in the conversation, then you got it. First of all I would like to apologize for rolling a CW as my very first class. I really am. It seems that this is an issue for you and others that for some freaky reason use it as a basis for an argument. You make it a point to always bring it up as if it has ANY relevance.
You're making a fool of yourself by also assuming that I am sabotaging the GWF class because I want to keep my CW CC+dps "crowns". Can an argument sound anymore pathetic? So I spend hours leveling a second class (and I also have a 3rd 60, so I will be sabotaging DCs next), buy an augment pet for it, gear it up and farm/clear T2 content with it, spend millions of AD on it, continue to play it and waste even more time running dailies farming crescents and whatnot, running MC daily on both classes to get the fragments, coming here trying in VEIN to relay my honest experience with the class, taking <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> from you and your likes about my "hidden agenda", alllllllll this so I can keep the CW class where it is?! So out of everything I said in the previous posts, this is the conclusion you come up with? And you want me to take your point of view about the GWF class seriously?
You're more pathetic to even consider for a moment that a Dev is actually following this ridiculous thread with all its melodramatic and exaggerated statements about GWFs, and actually taking your comments seriously. Yea I can see the next patch notes: We recently unraveled a conspiracy by some Forum members to keep CWs on top of the food chain and as a result we are nerfing CWs and buffing GWFs.....lol The class does have some issues, and I repeatedly, like a broken record, have acknowledged them. Sensible players would create a thread and discuss these issues based on facts and experience, and even suggest sound changes. Check the rest of the forum, there are quite a few threads like that. This one however, from its sarcastic cry baby title, to the exaggerated issues and posts littered with incorrect information, is nothing but a wall of QQing.
Anyone who thinks the class is utter garbage, shouldnt waste one extra second playing it. You should promptly jump onto the class you feel will bring you the biggest satisfaction. If the vast majority of the GWF community feels the same way and does that, then maybe Cryptic will take notice and make a change. I along with all the nut-jobs that feel GWFs are viable and fun to play, will continue doing what we're doing and if/when the class gets buffed, will be even happier.
1) AP per target returned or at least adjusted.
2) Fix Deep Gash/Punishing Charge interaction. Verifiable in the Trade of Blades.
3) Instigator capstone. Useless for soloing.
4) Unstoppable bugging out when CCed during initial cast of Unstoppable.
Not asking for much. Just some quality of life improvements.
Side note: I want a straw hat skin and a two handed rake or two handed hoe skin.
Nothing like running around looking like an innocent farmer until someone gets hit with his 'rake'.
Look at us in PvP. I did well as a destroyer (excellent damage, tank was okay) and better as a sentinel (now I hold positions and play 'speed bump' till my mates arrive, but have a harder time killing than before). Both also worked fine for me in dungeons, though I will be the first to recognize that some bosses just need a good TR to toast them, and while I can tank just fine, I'm not as good as a GF.
But if you (cryptic) played with the mobs a bit? It could really finish out the job.
- Set up choke points where a good rogue in stealth can make it easier for the whole party (I mean intended mechanics, not glitches). Like lowering a bridge or assassinating a watchmen.
- Focus archers on CW's, then healers, instead of letting them be judged by the aggro mechanism.
- Have certain mobs that actually get stronger if the wrong CC is used on them. Like Ice Elementals reacting to ice, or air elementals being untouched by sing.
- Add more environmental effects and hazards which, possibly with a well-timed swing of a big sword, can be stopped.
- Give the mobs a reason to focus on the tank. Like, a legitimate reason.
Just some quick ideas is all.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Much is made of the players that exclude gwf of partys. The VAST MAJORITY of these players are not good either. Since my 9/10k without allure or something, I took many of them in the back, and only at the end of dungeons due recognition.
Now if you know how to prepare a building, you will realize that there is a CLEAR disadvantage of this class to all the other, a disadvantage which has increased even more due to this **** pvp.
* I will insist on this suggestion: in addition to reverse this nonsense they did with the "roar", add the possibility of "steel bitz" cause "interupt". This change, for those who understand what entails not only increase damage gwf as the rogues.