Fine lets go into details, please enlighten me what other build/s will suffer from unstoppable nerf, how will this effect PVE (keep in mind in an ideal scenario adds are perfectly controlled by CW, therefore there is no reason to pop unstoppable every 2 seconds).
And if I may add, you're solution involves so much balancing and R&D work for the only viable spec in PvP atm, If you fail to realize this you are either an avid Pve'r who does pvp for daily or a player from Beholder the ghost server.
Are you... trolling me...?
Have you read my posts. I wrote "destroyer build". Change it to instigator. Change it to "any build but the sentinel build".
Second: where did i wrote that it will affect PvE? I wrote it would make the class worthless in PvP, while it's ALREADY ruined for PvE, since, if you didn't notice, 90% of players do not invite GWFs into dungeons cause of the exploits (aka "push the mobs out of the map to speedrun the dungeon").
Third: if you want to talk about balancing classes, you shouldn't refer to how groups work and how you can fight when you have a CW by your side. You should refer to PvP or, at least, to PvE SOLO.
Fourth: have you ever played a GWF destroyer, or instigator, or any other build apart from sentinel? If not, i suggest you to try it. Level one to 60, go PvP, then tell me again you want unstoppable to get nerfed.
I'll share my experience in destroyer build. I have around 1,9k defense, 23k hp, 6k attack with 3,4k power. Pretty basic PvP heroic duelist with no enchants. The few times i could enter a dungeon, i was either first or second in damage and kills.
PvP against equally geared classes:
Rogues can bring your HP down by half before you can even press the tab button, attacking from stealth
CWs who knows how to play, can bring yout HP down by 35-40% before you can pop unstoppable (determination meter half filled), and after that they can teleport and avoid your Attacks.
DCs can tank and heal
GF have much more HP, defense, plus their blocking ability.
GWF are supposed to have unstoppable, which charges using the damage you take, cause they can't cc from far, can't stealth, can't tank like a GF, can't heal like a DC, but still have to eat all the damage. A lot of damage.
My build is made to max out the determination gain and make the best use of unstoppable. Yet i'm lucky if i can use it a couple of times in a fight.
However, if you've never tried, i suggest you to go PvP with any GWF build except for the sentinel path. You'l lsee unstoppable there is not OP, and is the only thing that prevents you from being easily salughtered.
2. Punting / Pushing mobs has been posted by DEVs as intended and not an exploit. Players that continue to post otherwise are ignorant.
I will also add that it can be a heck of a lot of fun if you spec for it and practice. My GF does better than any professional footballer/kicker and loves dungeons like Dread Vault and Caverns of Karrundax with plenty of great ledges. You have to think about positioning and actively move in combat rather than just stand and swing.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
I'll share my experience in destroyer build. I have around 1,9k defense, 23k hp, 6k attack with 3,4k power. Pretty basic PvP heroic duelist with no enchants.
I'm gonna address just this quote, I read everything else but I already know you have no real clue how this game works, for starters you didn't mention the MOST important stat for your class, next you said you're built for determination gain, have you actually tested it or you just trust what cryptic's tooltips say?
Your definition and grasp of the game is way different than mine, where your "build" ends in feats mine just begins. There is gear selection, enchants and skills synergy. You look at numbers and think "this is better because it has more % or #". Just as a protip, sentinel has better sustained determination than your "build" give it a try in dungeons, because you tank more you can sustain it resulting in more procs than determination feats/passives.
But lets say I do agree with you, you claim to be struggling in pvp even with unstoppable, don't you see its your fault, I mean what do you expect? you can just go PVE spec into pvp and be as successful? if this was PVE discussion I would of told you different things and discuss how you can make the sent spec work in PVE aswell, but I don't want to drag myself to an argument with some guy who PVEs and occasionally hops to pvp and cries about his build being to weak.
You know what, show me some footage of your PVP, show me how unstoppable allows you to survive near death scenarios. I'm guessing you can't because with unstoppable or without, everything else you're using is wrong.
ty very much for explaining what i said instead of talking HAMSTER about my grammar(which is extreamly bad)there is no need to nerf unstoppable coz we all know how that felt before the patch gwf was usseles in pvp and pve.and here comes this guy thinks the game should revolve on him and his pal steroids.coz the nerfes he is suggesting is only not going to affect them as he admited.quote"You know whats funny, the maker of the build (steroidz) was already running this before the patch that buffed GWFs and nerfed CWs, back then we already all agreed its the best PvP class"HE IS OPENLY SAYING THAT NERF THAT HE IS SUGGESTING IS NOT AFFECTING THEM AND ITS STILL OP......WHAT ABOUT US DUDE? AND calling all server beholder ghosts and only viable build is his.is this normal person?you want this guy as a friend?
He meant being the best for PvP as a GWF's build.. He didn't say it was OP...he simply said it was better than the other GWF's builds back then.
What really makes it OP is the ability to proc unstoppable infinite amount of times.
Again, no need to insult anyone. I do not think that there is a need for any nerfs. At this point I don't know where you are going with this other than flaming people, and that's uncalled for.
agree 100 percent no need for any nerfs.but please explain why he(llantis) want to nerf unstoppable.when he(2,3 players) only benefits from that.not dirrectly butt all others goona suck and then he will be even better.coz he cant say buff tenes he went other way around
are you stupid he said best pvp CLASS cant you read.why you didnt highlit the word CLASS,you know what he ment?are you his mommy lol,still so what if its the best... good for him why all other builds need a nerf exept that one. are you ok? and he said its op
So because i mistakenly didn't high light it, you act like i made it disappear.
Being the best and being OP are two different things. Sentinel Regeneration GWFs are almost impossible to kill in 1 vs 1 due to the high defense/deflection and regeneration they have, in addition to the super sayan unstoppable mode that gives them huge survive-ability.
You can't kill them 1 vs 1 unless you are perma stealthed or if you have 2 of your friends helping you.And that's what makes them OP not the teneberous nor their feats.
I suggest you calm down and have a cold drink. We are just expressing opinion here. And he said it is OP because of the unstoppable if you read carefully.
And to be realistic, your GWF class has no place in PvE currently due to the dungeon design and gameplay. They are always replaced with GF or TRs so no need to scream about GWF's PvE.
So because i mistakenly didn't high light it, you act like i made it disappear.
Being the best and being OP are two different things. Sentinel Regeneration GWFs are almost impossible to kill in 1 vs 1 due to the high defense/deflection and regeneration they have, in addition to the super sayan unstoppable mode that gives them huge survive-ability.
You can't kill them 1 vs 1 unless you are perma stealthed or if you have 2 of your friends helping you.And that's what makes them OP not the teneberous nor their feats.
I suggest you calm down and have a cold drink. We are just expressing opinion here. And he said it is OP because of the unstoppable if you read carefully.
And to be realistic, your GWF class has no place in PvE currently due to the dungeon design and gameplay. They are always replaced with GF or TRs so no need to scream about GWF's PvE.
LANTIS is just good player with full tenes build nothing more. butt hp stacking sent gwf with no tenes is OP lolololololol.
I'm gonna address just this quote, I read everything else but I already know you have no real clue how this game works, for starters you didn't mention the MOST important stat for your class, next you said you're built for determination gain, have you actually tested it or you just trust what cryptic's tooltips say?
Your definition and grasp of the game is way different than mine, where your "build" ends in feats mine just begins. There is gear selection, enchants and skills synergy. You look at numbers and think "this is better because it has more % or #". Just as a protip, sentinel has better sustained determination than your "build" give it a try in dungeons, because you tank more you can sustain it resulting in more procs than determination feats/passives.
But lets say I do agree with you, you claim to be struggling in pvp even with unstoppable, don't you see its your fault, I mean what do you expect? you can just go PVE spec into pvp and be as successful? if this was PVE discussion I would of told you different things and discuss how you can make the sent spec work in PVE aswell, but I don't want to drag myself to an argument with some guy who PVEs and occasionally hops to pvp and cries about his build being to weak.
You know what, show me some footage of your PVP, show me how unstoppable allows you to survive near death scenarios. I'm guessing you can't because with unstoppable or without, everything else you're using is wrong.
Lol.
Excuse me guy, but you didn't understand a thing.
First, most important thing: i never "cried about the build being weak". I wrote, if you can read my posts, that to me unstoppable doesn0t need to be nerfed. Period. And that GWFs other builds would be weak if you nerf unstoppable.
Just slowly read my posts again, it's written there. I know this is the internetz so you can just write something and pretend i was the one who wrote it. But i didn't say, not even 1 time, that my build is weak.
Second: i never said i'm an expert or something. I Always wrote: "i'll share my experience". Pretty humble. Also: this is not my final build. I imagined a build, but it's about 40% complete. Will it work? I don't know. I'm just trying and having fun.
All i said here is that unstoppable is fine the way it is, and doesn't need a nerf. The ones who cry, indeed, are the ones asking for a nerf.
So let me get this right... You dont really know how your build or class works because you are only 40% complete with ONE of the possible builds your character can have, and you feel qualified enough to say weather a skill is OP or not?
That seems rather arrogant from my perspective... Now, if you said you have 3 level 60s and have tried multiple specs on multiple character classes with multiple synergies of gear and also multiple enchants well...
THEN you might be qualified to say what is more than likely OP or not... and your name would THEN be Lantiss cause he HAS done those things...
So before you try and measure YOUR e-peen versus a guy who you know nothing about, you should probably check to make sure his anaconda sized one doesnt flat out eat your tiny epeen for breakfast...
Why I post like this is because you have players that are like Lantiss who PROVE skills/specs are OP via streams/posts/comments but when the DEVs come reading this stuff your ONE idiotic ignorant post cancels out probably 10 smart/informed posts of others... Just think about that before you say something like "it is fine the way it is"...
I think everyone who plays a GWF will agree with me, that its hurst so much, when unstoppable breaks down and we cant use it (we have to die again or make a relog). This is our main strength and defend at the same time, if they weaken unstoppable, we gwf's, lose our "weapon" and again we will be useless (some say that we are now).
now it is very simple what is happening here when you have 5 classes all will comlain if they were balanced so make an ugly duckling so 4 classes turn their attention to that one and say happy i am not that class or they are HAMSTER players l2p so they buff their egos.with gwf they went to far with the nerf people stop playing that class and started alts, which is not good to coz all will know gwf suck lol. then they putt it to some normal in pvp butt not in pve coz only good gwf is with better gear and you cant farm with gwf no one can compared to other classes.butt still people not used to gwf with great being ok started complainig.which is not good again so they will make a distraction like going to nerf tr which will never happen so they have to nerf gwf to lol. .then llantis comes in a play so when gwf says its op then it must be lol.then llantis the saviour is showing how gwf is still viable with money i mean tenes.and other classes take it for granted that gwf need tene all others dont.
Lol.
Excuse me guy, but you didn't understand a thing.
First, most important thing: i never "cried about the build being weak". I wrote, if you can read my posts, that to me unstoppable doesn0t need to be nerfed. Period. And that GWFs other builds would be weak if you nerf unstoppable.
Once again, you focus on the small picture, I already know how it plays out, so I maybe skip few steps and do them for you, don't take it as me being wrong.
Rogues can bring your HP down by half before you can even press the tab button, attacking from stealth
CWs who knows how to play, can bring yout HP down by 35-40% before you can pop unstoppable (determination meter half filled), and after that they can teleport and avoid your Attacks.
DCs can tank and heal
GF have much more HP, defense, plus their blocking ability.
GWF are supposed to have unstoppable, which charges using the damage you take, cause they can't cc from far, can't stealth, can't tank like a GF, can't heal like a DC, but still have to eat all the damage. A lot of damage.
This looks like a cry post, we are in a thread that focuses on GWFs strongest PvP spec and you bring other classes and say how strong they are against you? you also give out examples of half scenarios. so what happens after a rogue takes you down to 50%, should I assume you just kill him then? sounds like unstoppable just delays your quick death anyway.
There is nothing funnier than someone who goes into an argument without properly testing stuff, bottom line is: you don't know GWFs limitations, you have a "40%" build, You're in a PvP thread making silly comments without any knowledge of the mentioned spec, I'm not sure whos a bigger tool, You or the kid that spams replies after each of ours.
So basically you guys came here crying for the GWF to be OP, and asking for a nerf of unstoppable. Then people come here and tell you that to them unstoppable is ok. Then you tell them they are crying cause they don't know how to play GWFs well as you, and that they should shut up.
Llantiss: if my post looks like a cry to you, then you should read more carefully. The part you quoted just stated what are, to me, the strenghts of each class, and why unstoppable is supposed to counter them.
Make this clear: GWF looks ok to me. The ones crying are you guys. You are the ones asking for a nerf.
Your attempts to troll me are useless, i'm not the type that enrage cause some unknown guy on the internet calls me ****. And if you're really trying to convince people that you're the only ones entitled to ask for nerfs and discuss gameplay, cause you're so good and experienced at the game... get lost. Everyone is free to post its experience. Your arrogance doesn't change that.
Also: DEVs sure won't be convinced by my posts. They read what you write, the test it and see if it's really OP or not.
I've already wrote what my experience with the game is.
Unstoppable is not broken, it's fine the way it is. Just the natural counter for the strenghts of the other classes.
I'm just a PvE GWF - unstoppable is my main weapon against cc or AoE of bosses. We don't have stealth like TRs but we have to be near to deal damage. We are not a ranged class.
This thread is about Tenebrous Enchantment - nerf this and most whining will stop.
Because from what I've seen all classes can stack hp and use tenebrous.
I don't care about PvP but I care about balance - if Tenebrous can be stacked it's too much for everyone. But why should we nerf abilities for that.
TR's are still more powerful and GWF's are still not taken to T2 dungeons.
This looks like a cry post, we are in a thread that focuses on GWFs strongest PvP spec and you bring other classes and say how strong they are against you? you also give out examples of half scenarios. so what happens after a rogue takes you down to 50%, should I assume you just kill him then? sounds like unstoppable just delays your quick death anyway.
If you're so experienced, you should know what happens.
I'll share, again, my experience and point of view.
After his first wave of damage, you go unstoppable. Now you're at an advantage (he's at an advantage when he can attack you from stealth, you're in advantage now. That's where unstoppable balance things).
Now, his natural option is do use his dodge/ evade abilities and try to avoid a direct confrontation. Buy time waiting for cooldowns to end. My option is to try and get him with my prone/ stun skills and try to do the best use of my unstoppable. That's also why unstoppable fills up your stamina to let you sprint and try to catch the enemy. After that, he can bring down my HP for another 50%. I pop unstoppable again. Again, he can dodge/ evade. I have to try and take him out now, cause i'm low in hp, and he should be low in hp too, if i could deal my damage during unstoppable. If i can't take him down, he will kill me with his last wave of damage.
I think that a rogue can be at a disadvantage if he tries to tank you. Cause my job is to deal damage while eating damage. His job is to deal damage and avoid damage, not to tank. He would think Unstoppable is OP only in this situation. Without Unstoppable, i would be dead with 2 waves of DPS. Meaning that i have to kill him during the cooldown of his skills, or i'm dead.
His job is hit and run. That's how he should play. A CW have to cc me and teleport to avoid my Attacks.
That's how they usually play. GWFs, to me, are the ones that deal damage and eat damage. That's why instead of a evading skill, they have a skill that let's them survive more, and that is directly linked to the damage you take.
Also: since you guys are so good, instead of just trolling, you should enlighten us inferior beings with your knowledge. You could tell me what a good destroyer build is, which important things i missed, where are my flaws.
I'm all ears. And i'm not trolling. I'm Always happy to read tips from more experienced players.
I'm just a PvE GWF - unstoppable is my main weapon against cc or AoE of bosses. We don't have stealth like TRs but we have to be near to deal damage. We are not a ranged class.
This thread is about Tenebrous Enchantment - nerf this and most whining will stop.
Because from what I've seen all classes can stack hp and use tenebrous.
I don't care about PvP but I care about balance - if Tenebrous can be stacked it's too much for everyone. But why should we nerf abilities for that.
TR's are still more powerful and GWF's are still not taken to T2 dungeons.
The problem with sentinels, if i got it good, is not just tenes. It's also that such a high HP, tanky build, makes the benefit from unstoppable too high.
But, as i said, unstoppable gets OP only in such builds, cause it's linked to your HP and survivability. The more HP and survivability you have, the more benefit you get from unstoppable. In regular builds, that's my point, it's fine the way it is.
So, instead of nerfing unstoppable, which would nerf the Whole class, you should find a way to nerf that particular build (sentinel with high HP).
I didn't think such a simple point would start a flame.
So basically you guys came here crying for the GWF to be OP, and asking for a nerf of unstoppable. Then people come here and tell you that to them unstoppable is ok. Then you tell them they are crying cause they don't know how to play GWFs well as you, and that they should shut up.
Summed it up nicely, except I think you forgot of the fact that I'm a GWF and the thread opener is a GF, so this started as a cry for nerf by a GF and me agreeing with him and sharing my input.
I predict after the patch nothing will even tickle a sent GWF, it has nothing to do with tenes, you think with a pug mindset "if he can't burst me its fine", but high competitive pvp means holding points, and GWF using takedown, flourish, restoring or rawr can stun chain you or multiple enemies and keep you busy forever and the only thing enables them to do it is the ridiculous cooldown on unstoppable.
Regarding your pvp scenario:
You described being taken down to 50% from stealth, this means CoS (does about 17k = 12 daggers built up), which still leaves 3 full encounters he didn't use, he can then use shadrow strike to go back in stealth nullifying your unstoppable charge, wait abit and start bombarding with impact shots, OR he can buffer flurry near you, hit you with the 3rd string when hes stealth is about to end, making him immune to CC, you gonna waste your flourish, than you will wanna use your takedown (or the opposite, doesnt matter), which then he can just go ITC, so hes already tanking you for 5 seconds and applied 6 bleeds on you, and taking small amount of dmg. By that time he has more options than you because you're off unstoppable and on cooldown, he can play it safe or go in for the kill. So you see unstoppable doesn't matter at all unless its sent spec, because of your squishy nature with any tree besides sent, unstoppable doesn't do much.
But take on a GWF sent and even if you do everything I described above, he will still be at 75%, and GWFs sustain HP at 50% because of 1.7k ticks so he can just last on half bar forever.
I don't care if its going to be fixed, I play the dam class you think I'll stop playing it because its too strong? sure i might find it boring but you can't deny its the strongest class in the game and unstoppable allows it to be that way.
So you see unstoppable doesn't matter at all unless its sent spec, because of your squishy nature with any tree besides sent, unstoppable doesn't do much.
But take on a GWF sent and even if you do everything I described above, he will still be at 75%, and GWFs sustain HP at 50% because of 1.7k ticks so he can just last on half bar forever.
Just this. I'm saying from the start that the problem is not unstoppable itself, but it being used with sentinel builds. And it's pure logic to assume that you have to nerf sentinels, not unstoppable, which would nerf the Whole class.
Now you say that unstoppable doesn't matter much with other builds. You basically confirmed what i'm saying since the start: unstoppable is OP only if combined with sentinel builds.
Just to say, unstoppable is surely less effective for other builds, but even so, it's the only skill that really can boost a bit their survivability, and that's even one more reason to DO NOT nerf it, since you would damage the other builds as well, decreasing unstoppable efficiency even more. You would have a balanced sentinel and an underpowered destroyer/ instigator.
So, as i said, the solution is just to nerf sentinel builds, not a skill that would affect the Whole class. Pure logic.
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edited August 2013
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I see plenty of GWF's play Sent build without G.Tenes. It is still viable without them. of course is viable and fun but will it be after the unsstopable nerf...lol and you dont see nothing there lol.
butt they are far from op and not one from that builds is full hp sent coz that one no one plays ever without tenes. not one guy on beholder coz who want big sword and cant kill lol than take gf.
GWF ... 15% deflect and GWF having high deflect ... the Supreme tanks ... so more con ... armor bonuses from 2 pc sets are 1600 and 1800 HP ... the most HP in the game by far ... the best tanks.... The more HP ....the unkillable GWF.... is unkillable ...Unkillable
Strange perception of what a gwf is. What's your next post? The Melee CW? The INT-built ranger and his magic wand?
Just this. I'm saying from the start that the problem is not unstoppable itself, but it being used with sentinel builds. And it's pure logic to assume that you have to nerf sentinels, not unstoppable, which would nerf the Whole class.
Now you say that unstoppable doesn't matter much with other builds. You basically confirmed what i'm saying since the start: unstoppable is OP only if combined with sentinel builds.
Just to say, unstoppable is surely less effective for other builds, but even so, it's the only skill that really can boost a bit their survivability, and that's even one more reason to DO NOT nerf it, since you would damage the other builds as well, decreasing unstoppable efficiency even more. You would have a balanced sentinel and an underpowered destroyer/ instigator.
So, as i said, the solution is just to nerf sentinel builds, not a skill that would affect the Whole class. Pure logic.
Wrong again, you don't see it do you? the problem with unstoppable is the short cooldown, its not the stats of it at all, it will have ZERO affect on other builds, because unlike sent spec, by the time they proc on another build its already too late.
When GF done with his combo, you're at 30% or less
When CW done with his combo, you're at 30% or less
When TR done with his combo, you're at 30% or less
I'm done explaining this to you, if you want PROOF come tomorrow on the PTR server, I'll let each class do their combo on you and you will see unstoppable or not, it's not going to matter AT ALL unless its sent spec.
what is the cheapest gear for gwf.well ill tell ya scrappers titans all def, hp stuff.and most expencive?all high dps gear.why is that? maybe coz with no tenes is usseles and no one wants it. and only viable gear is avatar.vigilant,valiant...ancient weapons if you actually want to kill someone.
Wrong again, you don't see it do you? the problem with unstoppable is the short cooldown, its not the stats of it at all, it will have ZERO affect on other builds, because unlike sent spec, by the time they proc on another build its already too late.
By short cooldown, do you mean how easy it is to fill the determination bar when you're taking (or if specced for it, dealing) damage? I'm not seeing how this is a problem since the mechanic seems to be WAI and is what lets a GWF be a very effective class.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Wrong again, you don't see it do you? the problem with unstoppable is the short cooldown, its not the stats of it at all, it will have ZERO affect on other builds, because unlike sent spec, by the time they proc on another build its already too late.
When GF done with his combo, you're at 30% or less
When CW done with his combo, you're at 30% or less
When TR done with his combo, you're at 30% or less
I'm done explaining this to you, if you want PROOF come tomorrow on the PTR server, I'll let each class do their combo on you and you will see unstoppable or not, it's not going to matter AT ALL unless its sent spec.
you described less than one percent of situations.when any normal decent class does a combo on you all matters. sure when max pimped out tene build hits combo its the same no unsstopable can save you if you dont pack tene hp build...k butt how often you play max pimped out tene build and how often regular folks where this would count....as i said i played them like 3,4 times(tene build gf) in i dont know had my bloodthirsty mont ago .lol
So, as i said, the solution is just to nerf sentinel builds, not a skill that would affect the Whole class. Pure logic.
That would make sense if it were actually true, unfortunately Unstoppable being nerfed would not have any real impact on other builds except Sentinel <- this is a good thing. Because it allows any other play style/build to remain relatively effective for its purposes while making sure that sentinel specced GWFs aren't unkillable.
If this isn't the realization you've come to then you honestly just need to play the game more.
Now perhaps you could make an argument for an all around stat buff to GWFs, or some kind of emphasis on making non-sent builds more viable, but we can only realistically start having those conversations once Unstoppable gets the proper nerf it needs.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
That would make sense if it were actually true, unfortunately Unstoppable being nerfed would not have any real impact on other builds except Sentinel <- this is a good thing. Because it allows any other play style/build to remain relatively effective for its purposes while making sure that sentinel specced GWFs aren't unkillable.
If this isn't the realization you've come to then you honestly just need to play the game more.
Now perhaps you could make an argument for an all around stat buff to GWFs, or some kind of emphasis on making non-sent builds more viable, but we can only realistically start having those conversations once Unstoppable gets the proper nerf it needs.
what is the cheapest gear for gwf.well ill tell ya scrappers titans all def, hp stuff.and most expencive?all high dps gear.why is that? maybe coz with no tenes is usseles and no one wants it. and only viable gear is avatar.vigilant,valiant...ancient weapons if you actually want to kill someone.
Lol bring your full dps GWF against my full tank, battle will last 4 minutes but I will kill you with 75%+ health remaining. Does number of kills win pvp? No capping and holding points does, so if I can sit on enemies 3 and hold it until they send 3-4 players (therefore losing 2) I just won the game for my team. Whereas you might kill 2 people and then die, and then those 2 respawn 10 seconds later and are right back in the fight.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Comments
Are you... trolling me...?
Have you read my posts. I wrote "destroyer build". Change it to instigator. Change it to "any build but the sentinel build".
Second: where did i wrote that it will affect PvE? I wrote it would make the class worthless in PvP, while it's ALREADY ruined for PvE, since, if you didn't notice, 90% of players do not invite GWFs into dungeons cause of the exploits (aka "push the mobs out of the map to speedrun the dungeon").
Third: if you want to talk about balancing classes, you shouldn't refer to how groups work and how you can fight when you have a CW by your side. You should refer to PvP or, at least, to PvE SOLO.
Fourth: have you ever played a GWF destroyer, or instigator, or any other build apart from sentinel? If not, i suggest you to try it. Level one to 60, go PvP, then tell me again you want unstoppable to get nerfed.
I'll share my experience in destroyer build. I have around 1,9k defense, 23k hp, 6k attack with 3,4k power. Pretty basic PvP heroic duelist with no enchants. The few times i could enter a dungeon, i was either first or second in damage and kills.
PvP against equally geared classes:
Rogues can bring your HP down by half before you can even press the tab button, attacking from stealth
CWs who knows how to play, can bring yout HP down by 35-40% before you can pop unstoppable (determination meter half filled), and after that they can teleport and avoid your Attacks.
DCs can tank and heal
GF have much more HP, defense, plus their blocking ability.
GWF are supposed to have unstoppable, which charges using the damage you take, cause they can't cc from far, can't stealth, can't tank like a GF, can't heal like a DC, but still have to eat all the damage. A lot of damage.
My build is made to max out the determination gain and make the best use of unstoppable. Yet i'm lucky if i can use it a couple of times in a fight.
However, if you've never tried, i suggest you to go PvP with any GWF build except for the sentinel path. You'l lsee unstoppable there is not OP, and is the only thing that prevents you from being easily salughtered.
I will also add that it can be a heck of a lot of fun if you spec for it and practice. My GF does better than any professional footballer/kicker and loves dungeons like Dread Vault and Caverns of Karrundax with plenty of great ledges. You have to think about positioning and actively move in combat rather than just stand and swing.
I'm gonna address just this quote, I read everything else but I already know you have no real clue how this game works, for starters you didn't mention the MOST important stat for your class, next you said you're built for determination gain, have you actually tested it or you just trust what cryptic's tooltips say?
Your definition and grasp of the game is way different than mine, where your "build" ends in feats mine just begins. There is gear selection, enchants and skills synergy. You look at numbers and think "this is better because it has more % or #". Just as a protip, sentinel has better sustained determination than your "build" give it a try in dungeons, because you tank more you can sustain it resulting in more procs than determination feats/passives.
But lets say I do agree with you, you claim to be struggling in pvp even with unstoppable, don't you see its your fault, I mean what do you expect? you can just go PVE spec into pvp and be as successful? if this was PVE discussion I would of told you different things and discuss how you can make the sent spec work in PVE aswell, but I don't want to drag myself to an argument with some guy who PVEs and occasionally hops to pvp and cries about his build being to weak.
You know what, show me some footage of your PVP, show me how unstoppable allows you to survive near death scenarios. I'm guessing you can't because with unstoppable or without, everything else you're using is wrong.
He meant being the best for PvP as a GWF's build.. He didn't say it was OP...he simply said it was better than the other GWF's builds back then.
What really makes it OP is the ability to proc unstoppable infinite amount of times.
agree 100 percent no need for any nerfs.but please explain why he(llantis) want to nerf unstoppable.when he(2,3 players) only benefits from that.not dirrectly butt all others goona suck and then he will be even better.coz he cant say buff tenes he went other way around
So because i mistakenly didn't high light it, you act like i made it disappear.
Being the best and being OP are two different things. Sentinel Regeneration GWFs are almost impossible to kill in 1 vs 1 due to the high defense/deflection and regeneration they have, in addition to the super sayan unstoppable mode that gives them huge survive-ability.
You can't kill them 1 vs 1 unless you are perma stealthed or if you have 2 of your friends helping you.And that's what makes them OP not the teneberous nor their feats.
I suggest you calm down and have a cold drink. We are just expressing opinion here. And he said it is OP because of the unstoppable if you read carefully.
And to be realistic, your GWF class has no place in PvE currently due to the dungeon design and gameplay. They are always replaced with GF or TRs so no need to scream about GWF's PvE.
LANTIS is just good player with full tenes build nothing more. butt hp stacking sent gwf with no tenes is OP lolololololol.
HE JUST WANT TO NERF EVERYBODY SO TENES will be op even more lol what a joke
Lol.
Excuse me guy, but you didn't understand a thing.
First, most important thing: i never "cried about the build being weak". I wrote, if you can read my posts, that to me unstoppable doesn0t need to be nerfed. Period. And that GWFs other builds would be weak if you nerf unstoppable.
Just slowly read my posts again, it's written there. I know this is the internetz so you can just write something and pretend i was the one who wrote it. But i didn't say, not even 1 time, that my build is weak.
Second: i never said i'm an expert or something. I Always wrote: "i'll share my experience". Pretty humble. Also: this is not my final build. I imagined a build, but it's about 40% complete. Will it work? I don't know. I'm just trying and having fun.
All i said here is that unstoppable is fine the way it is, and doesn't need a nerf. The ones who cry, indeed, are the ones asking for a nerf.
Hope i helped you to see were your post is wrong.
So let me get this right... You dont really know how your build or class works because you are only 40% complete with ONE of the possible builds your character can have, and you feel qualified enough to say weather a skill is OP or not?
That seems rather arrogant from my perspective... Now, if you said you have 3 level 60s and have tried multiple specs on multiple character classes with multiple synergies of gear and also multiple enchants well...
THEN you might be qualified to say what is more than likely OP or not... and your name would THEN be Lantiss cause he HAS done those things...
So before you try and measure YOUR e-peen versus a guy who you know nothing about, you should probably check to make sure his anaconda sized one doesnt flat out eat your tiny epeen for breakfast...
Why I post like this is because you have players that are like Lantiss who PROVE skills/specs are OP via streams/posts/comments but when the DEVs come reading this stuff your ONE idiotic ignorant post cancels out probably 10 smart/informed posts of others... Just think about that before you say something like "it is fine the way it is"...
/peace
Once again, you focus on the small picture, I already know how it plays out, so I maybe skip few steps and do them for you, don't take it as me being wrong.
This looks like a cry post, we are in a thread that focuses on GWFs strongest PvP spec and you bring other classes and say how strong they are against you? you also give out examples of half scenarios. so what happens after a rogue takes you down to 50%, should I assume you just kill him then? sounds like unstoppable just delays your quick death anyway.
There is nothing funnier than someone who goes into an argument without properly testing stuff, bottom line is: you don't know GWFs limitations, you have a "40%" build, You're in a PvP thread making silly comments without any knowledge of the mentioned spec, I'm not sure whos a bigger tool, You or the kid that spams replies after each of ours.
Llantiss: if my post looks like a cry to you, then you should read more carefully. The part you quoted just stated what are, to me, the strenghts of each class, and why unstoppable is supposed to counter them.
Make this clear: GWF looks ok to me. The ones crying are you guys. You are the ones asking for a nerf.
Your attempts to troll me are useless, i'm not the type that enrage cause some unknown guy on the internet calls me ****. And if you're really trying to convince people that you're the only ones entitled to ask for nerfs and discuss gameplay, cause you're so good and experienced at the game... get lost. Everyone is free to post its experience. Your arrogance doesn't change that.
Also: DEVs sure won't be convinced by my posts. They read what you write, the test it and see if it's really OP or not.
I've already wrote what my experience with the game is.
Unstoppable is not broken, it's fine the way it is. Just the natural counter for the strenghts of the other classes.
This thread is about Tenebrous Enchantment - nerf this and most whining will stop.
Because from what I've seen all classes can stack hp and use tenebrous.
I don't care about PvP but I care about balance - if Tenebrous can be stacked it's too much for everyone. But why should we nerf abilities for that.
TR's are still more powerful and GWF's are still not taken to T2 dungeons.
If you're so experienced, you should know what happens.
I'll share, again, my experience and point of view.
After his first wave of damage, you go unstoppable. Now you're at an advantage (he's at an advantage when he can attack you from stealth, you're in advantage now. That's where unstoppable balance things).
Now, his natural option is do use his dodge/ evade abilities and try to avoid a direct confrontation. Buy time waiting for cooldowns to end. My option is to try and get him with my prone/ stun skills and try to do the best use of my unstoppable. That's also why unstoppable fills up your stamina to let you sprint and try to catch the enemy. After that, he can bring down my HP for another 50%. I pop unstoppable again. Again, he can dodge/ evade. I have to try and take him out now, cause i'm low in hp, and he should be low in hp too, if i could deal my damage during unstoppable. If i can't take him down, he will kill me with his last wave of damage.
I think that a rogue can be at a disadvantage if he tries to tank you. Cause my job is to deal damage while eating damage. His job is to deal damage and avoid damage, not to tank. He would think Unstoppable is OP only in this situation. Without Unstoppable, i would be dead with 2 waves of DPS. Meaning that i have to kill him during the cooldown of his skills, or i'm dead.
His job is hit and run. That's how he should play. A CW have to cc me and teleport to avoid my Attacks.
That's how they usually play. GWFs, to me, are the ones that deal damage and eat damage. That's why instead of a evading skill, they have a skill that let's them survive more, and that is directly linked to the damage you take.
Also: since you guys are so good, instead of just trolling, you should enlighten us inferior beings with your knowledge. You could tell me what a good destroyer build is, which important things i missed, where are my flaws.
I'm all ears. And i'm not trolling. I'm Always happy to read tips from more experienced players.
The problem with sentinels, if i got it good, is not just tenes. It's also that such a high HP, tanky build, makes the benefit from unstoppable too high.
But, as i said, unstoppable gets OP only in such builds, cause it's linked to your HP and survivability. The more HP and survivability you have, the more benefit you get from unstoppable. In regular builds, that's my point, it's fine the way it is.
So, instead of nerfing unstoppable, which would nerf the Whole class, you should find a way to nerf that particular build (sentinel with high HP).
I didn't think such a simple point would start a flame.
Summed it up nicely, except I think you forgot of the fact that I'm a GWF and the thread opener is a GF, so this started as a cry for nerf by a GF and me agreeing with him and sharing my input.
I predict after the patch nothing will even tickle a sent GWF, it has nothing to do with tenes, you think with a pug mindset "if he can't burst me its fine", but high competitive pvp means holding points, and GWF using takedown, flourish, restoring or rawr can stun chain you or multiple enemies and keep you busy forever and the only thing enables them to do it is the ridiculous cooldown on unstoppable.
Regarding your pvp scenario:
You described being taken down to 50% from stealth, this means CoS (does about 17k = 12 daggers built up), which still leaves 3 full encounters he didn't use, he can then use shadrow strike to go back in stealth nullifying your unstoppable charge, wait abit and start bombarding with impact shots, OR he can buffer flurry near you, hit you with the 3rd string when hes stealth is about to end, making him immune to CC, you gonna waste your flourish, than you will wanna use your takedown (or the opposite, doesnt matter), which then he can just go ITC, so hes already tanking you for 5 seconds and applied 6 bleeds on you, and taking small amount of dmg. By that time he has more options than you because you're off unstoppable and on cooldown, he can play it safe or go in for the kill. So you see unstoppable doesn't matter at all unless its sent spec, because of your squishy nature with any tree besides sent, unstoppable doesn't do much.
But take on a GWF sent and even if you do everything I described above, he will still be at 75%, and GWFs sustain HP at 50% because of 1.7k ticks so he can just last on half bar forever.
I don't care if its going to be fixed, I play the dam class you think I'll stop playing it because its too strong? sure i might find it boring but you can't deny its the strongest class in the game and unstoppable allows it to be that way.
Just this. I'm saying from the start that the problem is not unstoppable itself, but it being used with sentinel builds. And it's pure logic to assume that you have to nerf sentinels, not unstoppable, which would nerf the Whole class.
Now you say that unstoppable doesn't matter much with other builds. You basically confirmed what i'm saying since the start: unstoppable is OP only if combined with sentinel builds.
Just to say, unstoppable is surely less effective for other builds, but even so, it's the only skill that really can boost a bit their survivability, and that's even one more reason to DO NOT nerf it, since you would damage the other builds as well, decreasing unstoppable efficiency even more. You would have a balanced sentinel and an underpowered destroyer/ instigator.
So, as i said, the solution is just to nerf sentinel builds, not a skill that would affect the Whole class. Pure logic.
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butt they are far from op and not one from that builds is full hp sent coz that one no one plays ever without tenes. not one guy on beholder coz who want big sword and cant kill lol than take gf.
Strange perception of what a gwf is. What's your next post? The Melee CW? The INT-built ranger and his magic wand?
Wrong again, you don't see it do you? the problem with unstoppable is the short cooldown, its not the stats of it at all, it will have ZERO affect on other builds, because unlike sent spec, by the time they proc on another build its already too late.
When GF done with his combo, you're at 30% or less
When CW done with his combo, you're at 30% or less
When TR done with his combo, you're at 30% or less
I'm done explaining this to you, if you want PROOF come tomorrow on the PTR server, I'll let each class do their combo on you and you will see unstoppable or not, it's not going to matter AT ALL unless its sent spec.
By short cooldown, do you mean how easy it is to fill the determination bar when you're taking (or if specced for it, dealing) damage? I'm not seeing how this is a problem since the mechanic seems to be WAI and is what lets a GWF be a very effective class.
you described less than one percent of situations.when any normal decent class does a combo on you all matters. sure when max pimped out tene build hits combo its the same no unsstopable can save you if you dont pack tene hp build...k butt how often you play max pimped out tene build and how often regular folks where this would count....as i said i played them like 3,4 times(tene build gf) in i dont know had my bloodthirsty mont ago .lol
That would make sense if it were actually true, unfortunately Unstoppable being nerfed would not have any real impact on other builds except Sentinel <- this is a good thing. Because it allows any other play style/build to remain relatively effective for its purposes while making sure that sentinel specced GWFs aren't unkillable.
If this isn't the realization you've come to then you honestly just need to play the game more.
Now perhaps you could make an argument for an all around stat buff to GWFs, or some kind of emphasis on making non-sent builds more viable, but we can only realistically start having those conversations once Unstoppable gets the proper nerf it needs.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
If this isn't the realization you've come to then you honestly just need to play the game more.
Now perhaps you could make an argument for an all around stat buff to GWFs, or some kind of emphasis on making non-sent builds more viable, but we can only realistically start having those conversations once Unstoppable gets the proper nerf it needs.
skenderija:
its like that coz you say so lol
Lol bring your full dps GWF against my full tank, battle will last 4 minutes but I will kill you with 75%+ health remaining. Does number of kills win pvp? No capping and holding points does, so if I can sit on enemies 3 and hold it until they send 3-4 players (therefore losing 2) I just won the game for my team. Whereas you might kill 2 people and then die, and then those 2 respawn 10 seconds later and are right back in the fight.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.