llantiss, the reason why the badly spelt abomination never complains about GF is because that is what he plays. He wants that stronger. more hPS, more dmaage reduction etc.
Lol.. badly spelt More like intentional. My name is Abomb in all the games I play Abomb-in-nation was intentional.
Yeah I agree, I would suggest just making only 1-2 Tene's allowed per character, that would solve most imbalances.
I am not fully geared yet though, If I had the money for 7 greater tene's I would also have the money for 5 rank 8 radiants, which I currently only have 2 rank 6's, so we're talking 38k ish HP, I think I would be nigh unkillable at that point lol thats another 400 regen per 2-3 seconds putting me over 2200 healed. I also have the feat that heals me for 5% when I use unstoppable, and I use restoring strike.
Also I used to be destroyer and while they put triple or more damage from the tanky versions they also die soooo fast if you don't stack some defense/deflection (and in turn lose some damage). 1 GF juggle generally will kill you if there is even 1 other dps, and GF can do it solo with knights challenge and 2 prones
OMG you hit the nail on the head there. 1 Tene per character!!!
OMG you hit the nail on the head there. 1 Tene per character!!!
That will never happen.And if it does, then they will increase the percentile of the HP Necro damage on the enchant. Which will make it even more dangerous because when you had so many on your gear you wouldn't guarantee that all of them will proc at the same time.
But now that you are suggesting them to be limited to 2 , you will have them both proc'd most of the time.
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cbrowne0329Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 293Arc User
Ok so there was a old thread rejuvenated about GWF being worst class. Then myself and many others commented on how OP they currently are because of new builds and patches latter with certain gear. So I thought I would make a new thread since some had some questions.
First off this build really was made possible and centered around of course the Tene enchant which has created a list of builds and needs to be made unique and only 1 per class used. Just fixing that enchant will balance PvP greatly and make the gimmick builds of the world disappear.
As someone asked don't you have 0 power crit etc, etc, of course but it doesn't matter because you do tons and tons of damage.
With sets giving 15% deflect and GWF having high deflect already they are the Supreme tanks of the game. With more benefits to stacked Con.
They also get Arm pen from there Con so more con more damage so having arm pen socked isn't needed at all.
Throw a plague fire on to proc the Tene's and lower defenses even more.
There armor bonuses from 2 pc sets are 1600 and 1800 HP so they can easily have the most HP in the game the highest I have seen is 37k. Others have mentioned 39k the fact is why are they by far the best tanks. The more HP you stack the stronger you are. Makes sense for a good build right. Then of course immune and can just runaway. So this build can cause a lot of problems and well time for breakfast but I saw a lot of questions about it and do to a old thread it was closed.
So now we can have a up to date discussion. About the unkillable GWF. That can dps with the rest of them what do you love about it or hate? Any build that is unkillable and made to be that way obviously needs a adjustment. Unkillable builds tons of fun right ?
I have no problem with the build... just give me back my Shocking Execution and remove the nerfs to my TR to compensate. Then I can one shot him with a 56K SE XD!
I have no problem with the build... just give me back my Shocking Execution and remove the nerfs to my TR to compensate. Then I can one shot him with a 56K SE XD!
Yea but then in giving you that back we can just delete every class and just play rogues right cause there is no point to play anything else.
That will never happen.And if it does, then they will increase the percentile of the HP Necro damage on the enchant. Which will make it even more dangerous because when you had so many on your gear you wouldn't guarantee that all of them will proc at the same time.
But now that you are suggesting them to be limited to 2 , you will have them both proc'd most of the time.
Why won't it ever happen. I think its the only smart solution is to make it unique which I think it should of been from the start and it was a error somewhere. I honestly thought it was a Weapon enchant the first time I looked at it and that makes sense. For it to be a offensive enchants makes no sense. Sure they could rework some stats change some things but it is a unique enchant. Even making it a weapon enchant wouldn't be a bad idea either.
Why won't it ever happen. I think its the only smart solution is to make it unique which I think it should of been from the start and it was a error somewhere. I honestly thought it was a Weapon enchant the first time I looked at it and that makes sense. For it to be a offensive enchants makes no sense. Sure they could rework some stats change some things but it is a unique enchant. Even making it a weapon enchant wouldn't be a bad idea either.
Can't you just stop thinking and shut your trap? You remind me of a teacup Chiwawa that barks at every little thing and just doesn't shut up.
Why won't it ever happen. I think its the only smart solution is to make it unique which I think it should of been from the start and it was a error somewhere. I honestly thought it was a Weapon enchant the first time I looked at it and that makes sense. For it to be a offensive enchants makes no sense. Sure they could rework some stats change some things but it is a unique enchant. Even making it a weapon enchant wouldn't be a bad idea either.
I have to agree, no other enchant even comes close to Tene for PvP. That's like if they released a new weapon enchant that did 100% of your power as bonus damage on every at-will, no one would use anything else, and the new PvP build would be adjusted to max HP for Tene's and Max Power for that enchant. When 1 enchant is WAY out of line with the others, especially one designed for PvP and incredibly expensive, it's probably time to tone it down some.
Edit: I know this sucks for those that already purchased them but as said by some others if you were given free unsockets you could recoup your losses.
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cbrowne0329Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 293Arc User
Yea but then in giving you that back we can just delete every class and just play rogues right cause there is no point to play anything else.
Okay on a serious note... nerfed our SE TR's = switch to lowered attack and started using the abilities made for the Paragon Path class caused perma-stealth. People wanted to change perma, you had TRs looking to respec into the current Scoundrel build I use. Why is it people think one of the toughest classes to play is OP... maybe just maybe we learn to adjust better.
I mean seriously... in my Scoundrel build... if I had Tenes in it... I could one shot groups with Whirling Blades.... and why... because we are a pure DPS build. HP sucks, AC sucks, and we can't take a hit... the average GWF or GF can kill me with 3 UNBLOCKABLE attacks if I don't use ITC/Stealth or roll, roll, roll (which usually gets me killed anyway).
I'm so sick of people saying nerf this or that because they can't think or adjust to tactics. only class that needs a buff is Cleric... every other class... and I play them all... is fine as is. Unskilled players will always ***** about some class... it happens in every game.
This was about unkillable GWFs and immediately turned back on to TRs...
Perma-Stealh rogues are so easy to kill (TR with Path of Blade and any other class can drop one in seconds)
Yet it takes 2 or 3 people struggling to kill a good GF or GWF.
I challenge anyone who thinks TRs are overpowered to create a new untwinked char today... level him to 60 and do PVP in PVP gear with no enchants against a team of all others with no enchants and tell me it's easy.
Every thread devolves into TR's stealth by the people that don't know how to counter it =/
I really want to talk about Tene's because I really enjoy balanced PvP. Tene's are what make perma-stealth TR's too strong, they are totally fine without them. GWF's are too. the common thread in all these supposedly overpowered builds is just their use of an overpowered enchant. IMO anyway.
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cbrowne0329Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 293Arc User
Every thread devolves into TR's stealth by the people that don't know how to counter it =/
I really want to talk about Tene's because I really enjoy balanced PvP. Tene's are what make perma-stealth TR's too strong, they are totally fine without them. GWF's are too. the common thread in all these supposedly overpowered builds is just their use of an overpowered enchant. IMO anyway.
I agree... I almost never have a problem going up against a class unless they have a ridiculous amount of tenes. I mean any class including a cleric who used his daily on me and had tenes killed me from 100% health...
I agree... I almost never have a problem going up against a class unless they have a ridiculous amount of tenes. I mean any class including a cleric who used his daily on me and had tenes killed me from 100% health...
This is how they SHOULD fix Tene enchants.
#1 Bring the CD for each enchant back to about 10 seconds, but make it a HARD 10 seconds, not serverside.
#2 Allow ONLY 1 enchant to proc from each attack, even AoEs can only proc 1 tene at a time and only 1 tene can do damage at a time.
#3 Allow Tene procs to hit MULTIPLE targets, so for instance, if it procced and then an AOE attack was used (hitting multiple targets) it tene would hit those multiple targets.
#4 Reduce the damage of the enchants to:
Lesser: 1%
Normal:1.5%
Greater: 2%
#5 Instead of making them off of current HP they should be off of MAX hp so it reduces the comparable effectiveness of tene+regen+damage mitigation builds (like Sent GWFs)
What all of this will do is:
1) Reduce stacking tene enchants because you will not be limited as much by the CD but limited MORE by the number of times you can hit a target, since only 1 can proc at once. To get maximum benefit you would have to have 100% proc rate hitting 7 times in 10 seconds... Chances are 7 tene enchants will NOT proc even close to that mitigating the point of having 7.
This will favor faster attacking characters like TR/CW but typically they have smaller health pools so it evens out a little versus slower attacking characters like GWF/GF who have to be up close to attack.
2) Reduce burst capability of tenes since damage is reduced on single targets AND only 1 can proc at once, meaning at FULL 37k hp 1 tene only does an additional 740 damage. But thats 740 damage for each tene hit, but again only 1 can proc at once.
3) Buff the DPS in PVE scenarios ALOT. Currently its a 20 sec CD and does 3%.. so about 1110 is the most you'd get... 1110/20 seconds = 55.5 DPS. As most of you know that is HORRIBLE DPS for a good enchant.
With my idea, lets say you hit 3 targets: 740*3=2220 Damage over 10 seconds = 222 DPS... While thats not AMAZING... stacking 7 of them would yield a 1554 DPS boost on average versus a 388DPS boost like it currently is... Thats a BIG difference over time... And making it based off of MAX HP help tremendously in PVE scenarios as well and since the single target burst capability is gone in PVP AND the single target damage was reduced, this will not nerf the enchant TOO badly in PVP to still be useful...
If this happens I would almost bet that a majority of players would not stack them past maybe 4 or 5 either... But instead of it being a pure "BiS" the most you stack the less benefit you will see because of that hard CD issue. Yes you could potentially have 1 proccing almost all the time if you are constantly attacking but the two characters with highest HP pools (GWF/GF) who would get the most benefit, are the easiest to kite...
A tr with 25k HP and 7 GTEs would only be doing an extra 500 per proc... which again then cannot proc for another 10 seconds...
THIS would balance the enchant out. It would still be strong, it would not be a black/white BiS and it would not be horrible for PVE now either...
He also has biased opinion and is very vocal about other classes, not once I saw him state how OP GFs are, yesterday I pvped against my buddy steroidz on his GF (on stream), we went 7-7 (TR vs GF), they build daily faster than a CW, i took him down to soulforge, he daily'd me and killed me with consecutive prones, and his tenes didn't do anything since he was low on HP, yet I don't see anyone complaining about that. I literally could do nothing once he started the first prone, how is a character that can take you down from 100% to 0% without even letting you get up not considered broken at least a bit?
I'm more careful when I go against GFs instead of GWFs.
Also some food for thought, the builds that you claim revolve around tenes are complete false, the builds are great even without tenes, just look at flyyyyy13 now that he's using our gear+spec, he's able to kill easily without them.
Classes that should be nerfed: GWF (unstoppable), GF(dmg nerf), TR(executioner tree)
Classes that should be buffed: DC(more cc immunity), CW (more dmg increase)
WELL i have no problem if someone is op with tenes.coz they are difficult to gett very few have them and i never saw one of them gwf on beholder.i rarely seen hp stacking gwf sent coz they ok butt nothing special without tenes.hp stacking destroyer makes much more sence with bad gear.so to nerf unstoppable while most gwf are destroyer with 2300 hp vigilant,avatar what ever sets is extreamly bad idea.this guy llantis is thinking we are all stupid lol.coz that nerf he wouldn feel at all lol butt 99 percent of others gwf. infact nerf so that llantis becomes even more op then now lol....destroy destroyer and all gwf with not the best gear(99% gwf) and pimp those who are not threat by a mille for llantis with extream buffs.so llantis would be best grand supreme gwf op even more and all the rest <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>... and best in any class to lol. and please dont mention other people who play with no tenes and kill the same lol.you do it then post it looking forvard to learn from you !!!!!! plz reply.
I don't really see why people wants unstoppable to be nerfed. I fight against other GWFs, and i don't find it overpowered.
CWs have cc, DC have healing, TR have stealth, GFs have that block ability. GWFs have unstoppable. Cause else they would be almost 1 shotted by TRs, class controlled forever by CWs, outsurvived by far by clerics and GFs.
If you think GWFs are OP, then level up one, then go PvP without using unstoppable, or using it few times. You're dead in no time.
Plus you can use it only when you gain damage. Which means you get damage, THEN you go unstoppable for 4 seconds roughly. 8 seconds if you take A LOT of damage, but at that point in PvP you are at 30% of you HPs.
Plus, the determination bar goes down fast. You can damage him, then get away, wait for unstoppable to end, damage him again. Which is what most people do.
You're really trying to take away the one and only skill that lets the GWF match the other classes.
Go on, it's already trash in PvE thanks to you guys exploiting dungeons, speedrunning them just pushing the mobs out of the edges. Make it trash in PvP too so we can say the class is dead for good.
Really, who thinks unstoppable should be nerfed, probably didn't play a GWF in PvP or PvE.
I don't really see why people wants unstoppable to be nerfed. I fight against other GWFs, and i don't find it overpowered.
CWs have cc, DC have healing, TR have stealth, GFs have that block ability. GWFs have unstoppable. Cause else they would be almost 1 shotted by TRs, class controlled forever by CWs, outsurvived by far by clerics and GFs.
If you think GWFs are OP, then level up one, then go PvP without using unstoppable, or using it few times. You're dead in no time.
Plus you can use it only when you gain damage. Which means you get damage, THEN you go unstoppable for 4 seconds roughly. 8 seconds if you take A LOT of damage, but at that point in PvP you are at 30% of you HPs.
Plus, the determination bar goes down fast. You can damage him, then get away, wait for unstoppable to end, damage him again. Which is what most people do.
You're really trying to take away the one and only skill that lets the GWF match the other classes.
Go on, it's already trash in PvE thanks to you guys exploiting dungeons, speedrunning them just pushing the mobs out of the edges. Make it trash in PvP too so we can say the class is dead for good.
Really, who thinks unstoppable should be nerfed, probably didn't play a GWF in PvP or PvE.
I'll be happy to give you a lesson on how strong GWF is this saturday on the PTR, if you are still not convinced and beaten atleast 10-0 by any build/char you make against the mentioned build I'll take all my claims back.
You know whats funny, the maker of the build (steroidz) was already running this before the patch that buffed GWFs and nerfed CWs, back then we already all agreed its the best PvP class, but it wasn't as big of an issue since CWs enfeeble was bugged and did double debuff and TRs had double weapon enchants where they used 2x greater/perfect vorpal bug, and then came the unneeded BUFF.
I'll be happy to give you a lesson on how strong GWF is this saturday on the PTR, if you are still not convinced and beaten atleast 10-0 by any build/char you make against the mentioned build I'll take all my claims back.
You know whats funny, the maker of the build (steroidz) was already running this before the patch that buffed GWFs and nerfed CWs, back then we already all agreed its the best PvP class, but it wasn't as big of an issue since CWs enfeeble was bugged and did double debuff and TRs had double weapon enchants where they used 2x greater/perfect vorpal bug, and then came the unneeded BUFF.
I never said that the mentioned sentinel build can't be overpowered.
I said that nerfing unstoppable makes no sense. If a specific build is OP, then nerf that path. Not the Whole class.
I can't say how dumb it is to suggest to nerf unstoppable just to nerf one build.
You can hard-cap HP earlier, preventing sentinels to become unkillable. You can nerf sentinel path. In few words, you can make THAT PATH weaker so that it's not unkillable anymore.
If you nerf unstoppable, then you make surely that build weaker, and all the other, non-OP builds, just ****. Which will make the class worthless. It already has its problems in PvE. Funny thing is that i read people whining about GWFs being OP, then the same people say GWFs are useless trash to clear a dungeon.
You're ok with GWFs being out of the end-game PvE content cause of dungeon exploits (pushing mobs out of the map to speedrun a dungeon is an exploit), and nobody asks for the problem to be solved. But when you've problems in PvP, you're quickly asking for a generic, idiotic nerf of the Whole class, just cause there's a problem with one build. GG.
I never said that the mentioned sentinel build can't be overpowered.
I said that nerfing unstoppable makes no sense. If a specific build is OP, then nerf that path. Not the Whole class.
I can't say how dumb it is to suggest to nerf unstoppable just to nerf one build.
You can hard-cap HP earlier, preventing sentinels to become unkillable. You can nerf sentinel path. In few words, you can make THAT PATH weaker so that it's not unkillable anymore.
If you nerf unstoppable, then you make surely that build weaker, and all the other, non-OP builds, just ****. Which will make the class worthless. It already has its problems in PvE. Funny thing is that i read people whining about GWFs being OP, then the same people say GWFs are useless trash to clear a dungeon.
You're ok with GWFs being out of the end-game PvE content cause of dungeon exploits (pushing mobs out of the map to speedrun a dungeon is an exploit), and nobody asks for the problem to be solved. But when you've problems in PvP, you're quickly asking for a generic, idiotic nerf of the Whole class, just cause there's a problem with one build. GG.
You guys need to think more and rage less.
"_think_ more rage less"
Where do you see me raging about anything? All I'm doing is providing input based on things I know and tested.
The tank build is only good because of the short cooldown on unstoppable, why would you nerf the tree when it seems very balanced, what makes it broken is unstoppable WITH combination of the feats, the fact that you can take 4 people's burst dmg consistently by popping unstoppable, running away to regen, come back in, pop it again and do it infinitely makes it broken, not the feats.
regarding PVE, I really don't want to talk about that, there are far worse issues to start complaining about that in a pvp thread.
I'll be happy to give you a lesson on how strong GWF is this saturday on the PTR, if you are still not convinced and beaten atleast 10-0 by any build/char you make against the mentioned build I'll take all my claims back.
You know whats funny, the maker of the build (steroidz) was already running this before the patch that buffed GWFs and nerfed CWs, back then we already all agreed its the best PvP class, but it wasn't as big of an issue since CWs enfeeble was bugged and did double debuff and TRs had double weapon enchants where they used 2x greater/perfect vorpal bug, and then came the unneeded BUFF.
first you dont reply to me and then you continue you <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on and on lol.we all want to see a lesson on gwf beeing op without g tennes and before the buff even more so.who do you think you are?your build have 2,3 people in 2 mill comunity lol.and coz of that you want to nerf unsstopable which you wouldnt feel at all butt all the rest can have <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> time playing gwf.before the buff patch gwf was immpossible to play even with best gear was mediocre.then you felt like a true king everybody talking about you lol coz all gwf was <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.you want that time again dont you? feel underuppriciated lol.who cares about you and steroids be the best dont mind at all butt trying to destroy the class which was allready on its knees an still is partialy is very ill of you.you want to take the fun away and then you would say no fun in this game we play another one lol.Oh and one more thing i like how peole complain on beholder gwf sent tene is op.they are rare as unicorns never seen one myself i make at least 10k glory each day(just to say how much i play)not in pvp hour coz im trying 1h to get into dd lol.
Where do you see me raging about anything? All I'm doing is providing input based on things I know and tested.
The tank build is only good because of the short cooldown on unstoppable, why would you nerf the tree when it seems very balanced, what makes it broken is unstoppable WITH combination of the feats, the fact that you can take 4 people's burst dmg consistently by popping unstoppable, running away to regen, come back in, pop it again and do it infinitely makes it broken, not the feats.
regarding PVE, I really don't want to talk about that, there are far worse issues to start complaining about that in a pvp thread.
Raging was referred to people in general. You're not the first asking for unstoppable to be nerfed.
And again, you're wrong.
Unstoppable gets that effective ONLY on that build. You say it yourself. Any other GWF build is far from being unkillable.
The fact is, unstoppable gets OP only on that build. If you nerf it for the Whole class, you make the other build ****. It's not rocket science.
Why is it OP on that build? Cause of the high HP and tank abilities.
You say "let's nuke the entire class to balance that build".
I say "let's nerf the build, so that even with unstoppable it won't be OP".
You can even nerf unstoppable SPECIFICALLY in the sentinel build (for example, the moment you reach 30k HP and a certain amount of points in sentinel path, unstoppable cooldown is increased) if you want.
What is ABSOLUTELY nonsense, is asking for a nerf of the Whole class. Balancing a RPG means you've to deal with a broken build, without affecting the other builds. And what you suggest would just destroy any other GWF build.
So think twice when you ask for something. As i said, the class already have enough problems in PvE due to lame people and lame management of the dungeon exploits, without ruining it in the PvP department too, asking for indiscriminate nerfing.
#5 Instead of making them off of current HP they should be off of MAX hp so it reduces the comparable effectiveness of tene+regen+damage mitigation builds (like Sent GWFs)
I agree with pretty much everything you said except this. How would basing it off of max HP not make the huge HP/tanky GWF not even more powerful? I have 36.2k HP right now with rank 6 radiants and still haven't gotten the gemmed pants for another radiant, I would have 38k+ with rank 8's, granted thats still only +760 damage per swing from tene's with the nerf's you described, I guess thats not too bad. In unstoppable though that would be about 3000 dps increase, thats pretty big.
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cbrowne0329Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 293Arc User
Raging was referred to people in general. You're not the first asking for unstoppable to be nerfed.
And again, you're wrong.
Unstoppable gets that effective ONLY on that build. You say it yourself. Any other GWF build is far from being unkillable.
The fact is, unstoppable gets OP only on that build. If you nerf it for the Whole class, you make the other build ****. It's not rocket science.
Why is it OP on that build? Cause of the high HP and tank abilities.
You say "let's nuke the entire class to balance that build".
I say "let's nerf the build, so that even with unstoppable it won't be OP".
You can even nerf unstoppable SPECIFICALLY in the sentinel build (for example, the moment you reach 30k HP and a certain amount of points in sentinel path, unstoppable cooldown is increased) if you want.
What is ABSOLUTELY nonsense, is asking for a nerf of the Whole class. Balancing a RPG means you've to deal with a broken build, without affecting the other builds. And what you suggest would just destroy any other GWF build.
So think twice when you ask for something. As i said, the class already have enough problems in PvE due to lame people and lame management of the dungeon exploits, without ruining it in the PvP department too, asking for indiscriminate nerfing.
Fine lets go into details, please enlighten me what other build/s will suffer from unstoppable nerf, how will this effect PVE (keep in mind in an ideal scenario adds are perfectly controlled by CW, therefore there is no reason to pop unstoppable every 2 seconds).
And if I may add, you're solution involves so much balancing and R&D work for the only viable spec in PvP atm, If you fail to realize this you are either an avid Pve'r who does pvp for daily or a player from Beholder the ghost server.
Fine lets go into details, please enlighten me what other build/s will suffer from unstoppable nerf, how will this effect PVE (keep in mind in an ideal scenario adds are perfectly controlled by CW, therefore there is no reason to pop unstoppable every 2 seconds).
And if I may add, you're solution involves so much balancing and R&D work for the only viable spec in PvP atm, If you fail to realize this you are either an avid Pve'r who does pvp for daily or a player from Beholder the ghost server.[/QUOT
all builds suffer extreamly from unstoppable nerf(except yours 3 people has in 2 mill) you allready seen it beffore the buff are you stupid or what.in dungeon you never get a team as gwf and you are talking about perfect wizard lol. you are a joke.and dungeons was not the point pvp was nobodys complaining about op gwf in dungeons.so to nerf unstoppable is going to ruin all gwf thats why its not going to happen kid.
all builds suffer extreamly from unstoppable nerf(except yours 3 people has in 2 mill) you allready seen it beffore the buff are you stupid or what.in dungeon you never get a team as gwf and you are talking about perfect wizard lol. you are a joke.and dungeons was not the point pvp was nobodys complaining about op gwf in dungeons.so to nerf unstoppable is going to ruin all gwf thats why its not going to happen kid.
If I understood you correctly, you're saying that all players will suffer from an nerf to unstoppable because GWF's already aren't desirable for PvE content (not my experience, but I know that this was the case for a while) but somehow PvE isn't the point. Is that correct?
Bear in mind that every time a class has their skills nerfed due to PvP'ers complaining it has a significant negative effect on PvE as well. Unless there are changes to mechanics that are PvP or PvE specific, it's all linked.
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Lol.. badly spelt
OMG you hit the nail on the head there. 1 Tene per character!!!
That will never happen.And if it does, then they will increase the percentile of the HP Necro damage on the enchant. Which will make it even more dangerous because when you had so many on your gear you wouldn't guarantee that all of them will proc at the same time.
But now that you are suggesting them to be limited to 2 , you will have them both proc'd most of the time.
I have no problem with the build... just give me back my Shocking Execution and remove the nerfs to my TR to compensate. Then I can one shot him with a 56K SE XD!
Yea but then in giving you that back we can just delete every class and just play rogues right cause there is no point to play anything else.
Why won't it ever happen. I think its the only smart solution is to make it unique which I think it should of been from the start and it was a error somewhere. I honestly thought it was a Weapon enchant the first time I looked at it and that makes sense. For it to be a offensive enchants makes no sense. Sure they could rework some stats change some things but it is a unique enchant. Even making it a weapon enchant wouldn't be a bad idea either.
Can't you just stop thinking and shut your trap? You remind me of a teacup Chiwawa that barks at every little thing and just doesn't shut up.
I have to agree, no other enchant even comes close to Tene for PvP. That's like if they released a new weapon enchant that did 100% of your power as bonus damage on every at-will, no one would use anything else, and the new PvP build would be adjusted to max HP for Tene's and Max Power for that enchant. When 1 enchant is WAY out of line with the others, especially one designed for PvP and incredibly expensive, it's probably time to tone it down some.
Edit: I know this sucks for those that already purchased them but as said by some others if you were given free unsockets you could recoup your losses.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Okay on a serious note... nerfed our SE TR's = switch to lowered attack and started using the abilities made for the Paragon Path class caused perma-stealth. People wanted to change perma, you had TRs looking to respec into the current Scoundrel build I use. Why is it people think one of the toughest classes to play is OP... maybe just maybe we learn to adjust better.
I mean seriously... in my Scoundrel build... if I had Tenes in it... I could one shot groups with Whirling Blades.... and why... because we are a pure DPS build. HP sucks, AC sucks, and we can't take a hit... the average GWF or GF can kill me with 3 UNBLOCKABLE attacks if I don't use ITC/Stealth or roll, roll, roll (which usually gets me killed anyway).
I'm so sick of people saying nerf this or that because they can't think or adjust to tactics. only class that needs a buff is Cleric... every other class... and I play them all... is fine as is. Unskilled players will always ***** about some class... it happens in every game.
This was about unkillable GWFs and immediately turned back on to TRs...
Perma-Stealh rogues are so easy to kill (TR with Path of Blade and any other class can drop one in seconds)
Yet it takes 2 or 3 people struggling to kill a good GF or GWF.
I challenge anyone who thinks TRs are overpowered to create a new untwinked char today... level him to 60 and do PVP in PVP gear with no enchants against a team of all others with no enchants and tell me it's easy.
Your suggestion is spot on. If you are having a hard time beating a class then level one up and learn the skills and how to counter.
I really want to talk about Tene's because I really enjoy balanced PvP. Tene's are what make perma-stealth TR's too strong, they are totally fine without them. GWF's are too. the common thread in all these supposedly overpowered builds is just their use of an overpowered enchant. IMO anyway.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I agree... I almost never have a problem going up against a class unless they have a ridiculous amount of tenes. I mean any class including a cleric who used his daily on me and had tenes killed me from 100% health...
This is how they SHOULD fix Tene enchants.
#1 Bring the CD for each enchant back to about 10 seconds, but make it a HARD 10 seconds, not serverside.
#2 Allow ONLY 1 enchant to proc from each attack, even AoEs can only proc 1 tene at a time and only 1 tene can do damage at a time.
#3 Allow Tene procs to hit MULTIPLE targets, so for instance, if it procced and then an AOE attack was used (hitting multiple targets) it tene would hit those multiple targets.
#4 Reduce the damage of the enchants to:
Lesser: 1%
Normal:1.5%
Greater: 2%
#5 Instead of making them off of current HP they should be off of MAX hp so it reduces the comparable effectiveness of tene+regen+damage mitigation builds (like Sent GWFs)
What all of this will do is:
1) Reduce stacking tene enchants because you will not be limited as much by the CD but limited MORE by the number of times you can hit a target, since only 1 can proc at once. To get maximum benefit you would have to have 100% proc rate hitting 7 times in 10 seconds... Chances are 7 tene enchants will NOT proc even close to that mitigating the point of having 7.
This will favor faster attacking characters like TR/CW but typically they have smaller health pools so it evens out a little versus slower attacking characters like GWF/GF who have to be up close to attack.
2) Reduce burst capability of tenes since damage is reduced on single targets AND only 1 can proc at once, meaning at FULL 37k hp 1 tene only does an additional 740 damage. But thats 740 damage for each tene hit, but again only 1 can proc at once.
3) Buff the DPS in PVE scenarios ALOT. Currently its a 20 sec CD and does 3%.. so about 1110 is the most you'd get... 1110/20 seconds = 55.5 DPS. As most of you know that is HORRIBLE DPS for a good enchant.
With my idea, lets say you hit 3 targets: 740*3=2220 Damage over 10 seconds = 222 DPS... While thats not AMAZING... stacking 7 of them would yield a 1554 DPS boost on average versus a 388DPS boost like it currently is... Thats a BIG difference over time... And making it based off of MAX HP help tremendously in PVE scenarios as well and since the single target burst capability is gone in PVP AND the single target damage was reduced, this will not nerf the enchant TOO badly in PVP to still be useful...
If this happens I would almost bet that a majority of players would not stack them past maybe 4 or 5 either... But instead of it being a pure "BiS" the most you stack the less benefit you will see because of that hard CD issue. Yes you could potentially have 1 proccing almost all the time if you are constantly attacking but the two characters with highest HP pools (GWF/GF) who would get the most benefit, are the easiest to kite...
A tr with 25k HP and 7 GTEs would only be doing an extra 500 per proc... which again then cannot proc for another 10 seconds...
THIS would balance the enchant out. It would still be strong, it would not be a black/white BiS and it would not be horrible for PVE now either...
WELL i have no problem if someone is op with tenes.coz they are difficult to gett very few have them and i never saw one of them gwf on beholder.i rarely seen hp stacking gwf sent coz they ok butt nothing special without tenes.hp stacking destroyer makes much more sence with bad gear.so to nerf unstoppable while most gwf are destroyer with 2300 hp vigilant,avatar what ever sets is extreamly bad idea.this guy llantis is thinking we are all stupid lol.coz that nerf he wouldn feel at all lol butt 99 percent of others gwf. infact nerf so that llantis becomes even more op then now lol....destroy destroyer and all gwf with not the best gear(99% gwf) and pimp those who are not threat by a mille for llantis with extream buffs.so llantis would be best grand supreme gwf op even more and all the rest <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>... and best in any class to lol. and please dont mention other people who play with no tenes and kill the same lol.you do it then post it looking forvard to learn from you !!!!!! plz reply.
CWs have cc, DC have healing, TR have stealth, GFs have that block ability. GWFs have unstoppable. Cause else they would be almost 1 shotted by TRs, class controlled forever by CWs, outsurvived by far by clerics and GFs.
If you think GWFs are OP, then level up one, then go PvP without using unstoppable, or using it few times. You're dead in no time.
Plus you can use it only when you gain damage. Which means you get damage, THEN you go unstoppable for 4 seconds roughly. 8 seconds if you take A LOT of damage, but at that point in PvP you are at 30% of you HPs.
Plus, the determination bar goes down fast. You can damage him, then get away, wait for unstoppable to end, damage him again. Which is what most people do.
You're really trying to take away the one and only skill that lets the GWF match the other classes.
Go on, it's already trash in PvE thanks to you guys exploiting dungeons, speedrunning them just pushing the mobs out of the edges. Make it trash in PvP too so we can say the class is dead for good.
Really, who thinks unstoppable should be nerfed, probably didn't play a GWF in PvP or PvE.
I'll be happy to give you a lesson on how strong GWF is this saturday on the PTR, if you are still not convinced and beaten atleast 10-0 by any build/char you make against the mentioned build I'll take all my claims back.
You know whats funny, the maker of the build (steroidz) was already running this before the patch that buffed GWFs and nerfed CWs, back then we already all agreed its the best PvP class, but it wasn't as big of an issue since CWs enfeeble was bugged and did double debuff and TRs had double weapon enchants where they used 2x greater/perfect vorpal bug, and then came the unneeded BUFF.
I never said that the mentioned sentinel build can't be overpowered.
I said that nerfing unstoppable makes no sense. If a specific build is OP, then nerf that path. Not the Whole class.
I can't say how dumb it is to suggest to nerf unstoppable just to nerf one build.
You can hard-cap HP earlier, preventing sentinels to become unkillable. You can nerf sentinel path. In few words, you can make THAT PATH weaker so that it's not unkillable anymore.
If you nerf unstoppable, then you make surely that build weaker, and all the other, non-OP builds, just ****. Which will make the class worthless. It already has its problems in PvE. Funny thing is that i read people whining about GWFs being OP, then the same people say GWFs are useless trash to clear a dungeon.
You're ok with GWFs being out of the end-game PvE content cause of dungeon exploits (pushing mobs out of the map to speedrun a dungeon is an exploit), and nobody asks for the problem to be solved. But when you've problems in PvP, you're quickly asking for a generic, idiotic nerf of the Whole class, just cause there's a problem with one build. GG.
You guys need to think more and rage less.
"_think_ more rage less"
Where do you see me raging about anything? All I'm doing is providing input based on things I know and tested.
The tank build is only good because of the short cooldown on unstoppable, why would you nerf the tree when it seems very balanced, what makes it broken is unstoppable WITH combination of the feats, the fact that you can take 4 people's burst dmg consistently by popping unstoppable, running away to regen, come back in, pop it again and do it infinitely makes it broken, not the feats.
regarding PVE, I really don't want to talk about that, there are far worse issues to start complaining about that in a pvp thread.
first you dont reply to me and then you continue you <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on and on lol.we all want to see a lesson on gwf beeing op without g tennes and before the buff even more so.who do you think you are?your build have 2,3 people in 2 mill comunity lol.and coz of that you want to nerf unsstopable which you wouldnt feel at all butt all the rest can have <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> time playing gwf.before the buff patch gwf was immpossible to play even with best gear was mediocre.then you felt like a true king everybody talking about you lol coz all gwf was <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.you want that time again dont you? feel underuppriciated lol.who cares about you and steroids be the best dont mind at all butt trying to destroy the class which was allready on its knees an still is partialy is very ill of you.you want to take the fun away and then you would say no fun in this game we play another one lol.Oh and one more thing i like how peole complain on beholder gwf sent tene is op.they are rare as unicorns never seen one myself i make at least 10k glory each day(just to say how much i play)not in pvp hour coz im trying 1h to get into dd lol.
Raging was referred to people in general. You're not the first asking for unstoppable to be nerfed.
And again, you're wrong.
Unstoppable gets that effective ONLY on that build. You say it yourself. Any other GWF build is far from being unkillable.
The fact is, unstoppable gets OP only on that build. If you nerf it for the Whole class, you make the other build ****. It's not rocket science.
Why is it OP on that build? Cause of the high HP and tank abilities.
You say "let's nuke the entire class to balance that build".
I say "let's nerf the build, so that even with unstoppable it won't be OP".
You can even nerf unstoppable SPECIFICALLY in the sentinel build (for example, the moment you reach 30k HP and a certain amount of points in sentinel path, unstoppable cooldown is increased) if you want.
What is ABSOLUTELY nonsense, is asking for a nerf of the Whole class. Balancing a RPG means you've to deal with a broken build, without affecting the other builds. And what you suggest would just destroy any other GWF build.
So think twice when you ask for something. As i said, the class already have enough problems in PvE due to lame people and lame management of the dungeon exploits, without ruining it in the PvP department too, asking for indiscriminate nerfing.
I agree with pretty much everything you said except this. How would basing it off of max HP not make the huge HP/tanky GWF not even more powerful? I have 36.2k HP right now with rank 6 radiants and still haven't gotten the gemmed pants for another radiant, I would have 38k+ with rank 8's, granted thats still only +760 damage per swing from tene's with the nerf's you described, I guess thats not too bad. In unstoppable though that would be about 3000 dps increase, thats pretty big.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Fine lets go into details, please enlighten me what other build/s will suffer from unstoppable nerf, how will this effect PVE (keep in mind in an ideal scenario adds are perfectly controlled by CW, therefore there is no reason to pop unstoppable every 2 seconds).
And if I may add, you're solution involves so much balancing and R&D work for the only viable spec in PvP atm, If you fail to realize this you are either an avid Pve'r who does pvp for daily or a player from Beholder the ghost server.
Sincerely,
Bristles
+1
/characters
That was just mean Lantis... (please continue)
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
He means business.
If I understood you correctly, you're saying that all players will suffer from an nerf to unstoppable because GWF's already aren't desirable for PvE content (not my experience, but I know that this was the case for a while) but somehow PvE isn't the point. Is that correct?
Bear in mind that every time a class has their skills nerfed due to PvP'ers complaining it has a significant negative effect on PvE as well. Unless there are changes to mechanics that are PvP or PvE specific, it's all linked.