its not the temporary HP that is the issue it is the fact that they can heal through all the damage that you dish to them. I have noticed this in the lower PVP brackets as well. Currently I am running my rogue through the lvl 40 bracket and I have fought a GWF with myself and another CW and while we both burn encounter powers and dailies the GWF just sits there taking next to know damage and healing. Combine that with one of the map potions and not only will they eat all your damage and kill you but they will end the fight with full health. The same fight as mentioned the gwf was at about 10% health ran and got one of the map potions continued to fight then killed me and the CW and ended the fight with full health!?!
Now granted I dont play a gwf so I dont know there abilities but generally if you start a fight at lower health and end the fight at full with 2 kills there is something wrong there.
The map potions heal a lot. It will bring you back to full health. The GWF that you are fighting is sentinel GWF which is a tank paragon path with a increase on one skill that heal them a flat hp based on that one strike of damage. That will also need tank gears which take away a lot of damage (power, critical, and armor pent/ <in turn lower that heal strike potential>) and put in a lot of regeneration, defense, and deflection (some lifesteal in there, then woot). Also you should never let yourself be hit by a gwf because you guys are TR and CW (any damage to you is big damage). Dodge the GWF's skills like you should do. *Hint* You can still dodge like a second after a GWF stun skill hit you and it will be like it never happened (skills will be on cooldown). During the time GWF's skills are on cooldown, you go in there to poke him to death.
Has anyone mentioned that their shift ability to cancel their animations still allows their attacks to go through, essentially increasing their attack speed by ohhh 30%, and that they can cast 2 dailies at the same time?
Please fix gwf they are ridiculously hard to kill now 3 (2 wiz 1 rogue)OF US WITH FULL T2 GEARED WITH 7+ ENCHANTS could not kill one gwf it heals faster then WE could do damage to it. ignored our daily's both of us or we did not do damage to him with it. this happened more then once they are way over powered he could spam what ever that spell is that makes them bigger he was almost constantly in it. I am not a average player in pvp I am better then most and I find the new gwf to over powered I just run from them now. he could spam some type of skill also when he caught you that locked us in place and stunned us no way out and could almost 2 shot us.
pvp is so screwed up certain rogue build can be in invis mode at ALL times and you can not hit them. only out of it for a 1 or 2 sec then back in they can hit you but you cant hit them. Couple that with a 1-2 sec it takes them to kil us wiz is a joke.
How about fix your character. I've had plenty of players give me a good run in PvP. They give us a decent buff and now everyone complains. I was doing fine pre-patch, now I have more survivability, and I like it. Helped me solo FH boss when the rest of the party went down, so leave it. I would bet the person you were playing had their proper skills and feats set. If they had a soulforged and it kicked in, that's another reason. But we are FAR from overpowered. I'd say just right now, perhaps a bit clunky with movement, but it's fine. TR invis mode is simply a build man, read up on your class more or something, I don't know.
I agree. I'm a T2 Wizard with Full enchants, rank 4 and 5. Yet its impossible to do any serious damage. On top of that, they are so hit so hard that I'm down nearly half health on first hit. Then before I can react on the second one he hits me again killing me.
I understand as CW. I have an advantage over him, vanishing and reappearing. It got to the point where one of members my party said, don't focus on the Guardian. It took so long to kill them over time, it was easier to focus on others first. Its simply not fair.
You obviously don't understand CW much at all since you made a previous thread about nerf GF. There's no reason a CW should loose to a GF unless another CW caught them. I hope you get spanked by more GWF in the future and realize the error of posting that thread.
That being said CW can also take GWF 99% of the time, you simply have to stay max range and blink away when they unstoppable/sprint at you. Assuming the GWF slots the same 3 short range moves they all do, if they slot punishing charge for instance you're prolly dead no matter what you do. Sent/tene GWFs are on top right now.
It's like nobody even read the tooltip on Unstoppable... GWFs build determination (mainly) by getting hit, of COURSE they are gonna spam it like no tomorrow when they have five guys focusing them. That's the point! The more people they have on them, the stronger they are.
You obviously don't understand CW much at all since you made a previous thread about nerf GF. There's no reason a CW should loose to a GF unless another CW caught them. I hope you get spanked by more GWF in the future and realize the error of posting that thread.
That being said CW can also take GWF 99% of the time, you simply have to stay max range and blink away when they unstoppable/sprint at you. Assuming the GWF slots the same 3 short range moves they all do, if they slot punishing charge for instance you're prolly dead no matter what you do. Sent/tene GWFs are on top right now.
Are you kidding I have max gear as a CW and I cant take down a GWF. You must have <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear. Are you Sent build. I don't think so. If you are a CW you don't pvp much nad you haven't PVP'd much since the patch which is obvious. Go play 5 games in a row and come back then.
Started a new Day 1 PVPing first game my team 1 DC 2 CW and 2 rogue vs 2 GWf 2 rogue and DC
suffice to say the GWF smack talking 2 mins in. Getting steamrolled first leaver 2.5mins GG
AS a CW PVP is dead to me atm. Its going to drive a lot of players away from the game.
GF and GWF now own PVP.
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Agree with most of this. A GWF can take down a CW the vast majority of the time (if they are equivocally skilled). However, I don't think a CW is a dead class. I view them now as a support role, since they really cannot control much of anything. Spell Mastery RoE for debuff, Shield to avoid getting 1-shotted, EF is a goodie and CoI is good at marking stealthy rogues.
It's like nobody even read the tooltip on Unstoppable... GWFs build determination (mainly) by getting hit, of COURSE they are gonna spam it like no tomorrow when they have five guys focusing them. That's the point! The more people they have on them, the stronger they are.
yup and ppl keep using the skills whille they are on unstopable mode then Q.Q about it
i got me a cl a cw a tr and rolling a gwf now and i can tell u they aint gods u just cant spam skills and face tank them and expect to win lol.... only use skills when they are in normal mode...... then use normal at wills to kill the temp hp
of u stand there and at will them they gona go unstopable
Agree with most of this. A GWF can take down a CW the vast majority of the time (if they are equivocally skilled). However, I don't think a CW is a dead class. I view them now as a support role, since they really cannot control much of anything. Spell Mastery RoE for debuff, Shield to avoid getting 1-shotted, EF is a goodie and CoI is good at marking stealthy rogues.
Play one and see how you enjoy it now. They got the balance very very wrong. I understand you don't play one at all when you said shield to stop damage lol.
If you go to the "overpowered pvp thread" where a bunch of ppl voted. GWF is the 3rd on the list after TR/GF...
Seems like most ppl think TR/GF/GWF are OP... I have seen CWs do amazing against GWF/GF I have 2 shot TRs on my GF... I have had some trouble killing a well played DC on my GF, now obviously 1v1 a DC is going to have a hard time coming out on top in PVP but chances are if he can survive, one of his buddies can come help and take me out...
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Play one and see how you enjoy it now. They got the balance very very wrong. I understand you don't play one at all when you said shield to stop damage lol.
Thanks for making us your support team. Yay CW's
I have a level 60 CW, TR, GWF, and GF. By far they're the toughest class to PVP at 60. No question. Fortunately, I'm in a good guild and do my best to play my part. Plus, I always position myself with a good exit strategy, or telly to my teammates if I get swarmed.
lavatoryloadMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 13Arc User
edited June 2013
I have max gear as a rogue, perfect vorpal, and soulforge etc... I can't take down a 10-11k GWF. It's just plain dumb. I'm not oblivious to the fact that the more you hit them the faster it builds their determination, nor am I to the fact that when unstoppable is up that they are basically invulnerable. Point is, they are out of control and WAY over buffed. The only way I remotely stand a chance is if I kite them to a point where I can daily them to kill them (if they are dumb enough to let me kite them)... regular attack or encounters won't do it. Not to mention the fact that they can just run away and find a pot. Oh, and don't forget the one shot stun lock that you can't dodge. FIX THE "FIX" ALONG WITH THE 1000's of other blunders in your failed D&D experience. Wizards of the Coast should be embarrassed.
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lavatoryloadMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 13Arc User
edited June 2013
Only reason it's like that is because the patch just came out and people haven't all "experienced" the retardation that Cryptic patched. People that don't have max gear haven't had the chance to get their *** tooled by a mid lvl geared GWF.
Great Weapon Fighter are weak against a well played Guardian Fighter if they are of equal strength by gear and player skill, Great Weapon Fighter can't avoid like any other class so unless they are unstoppable a Guardian Fighter can knock them prone and go to town. Rogues can quickly kill a control wizard but at the same time if a Control Wizard gets them in CC first they can finish them. Great Weapon fighter can kill a rogue easily enough if the rogue isn't hiding. Control wizards if keeping their distance especially up on higher ground always ready to punt can range a Guardian fighter keeping them at bay, a good stalemate in one vs one. Control Wizards should easily be killing the Clerics if they are of equal strength. Cleric is the only class that I don't expect to one vs one as well as the others, but a Cleric can make a two vs two in their favor with almost any other class. Rogues can strike hard and vanish quickly retreating making for a solid choice against a Guardian Fighter if they are smart enough not to try and face to face fight them.
Other than the fail of PvP being points by holding flags if it required meeting other conditions where time wasn't a factor I'd be crying with all the rogues out there that would just be in hiding waiting for that moment you drop your guard.
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lavatoryloadMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 13Arc User
edited June 2013
Did you read what you wrote or think about what we said before you wrote it? GWF are out of control and you wrote "- GWF can't be killed, period, and of course they do too much damage." I think that's a little more OP than ANYTHING else you put there... It's the only class that can't be killed. Pull your head out of your *** and realize they are broke as ****.
We should just have one thread like this.. Nerf X.... and substitute whatever class people feel like raging at.
Because so far:
- TR remains invisible all the time, has permanent immunity and can one-shot (with a combination of 12 daggers and an encounter)
- GF just do a bouncing betty on you and you're tossed around like a ragdoll...oh and of course they do too much damage
- GWF can't be killed, period, and of course they do too much damage.
- CW dodge and choke too much, and of course they do too much damage.
- DC just runs around healing everything that kills the other team....
Seriously, check the boards... it's always the same. I lost to X, X's powers are absurd/insane/OP, you don't agree with me so you're just a trolling fanboi and my personal attacks will surely counter any arguments you make.
EVERY class is being accused of being OP now, even DC's, by everybody and their mother who supports their whining. But when people suggest something else might be going on, such as, dare I say it ... Tene's.... the frenzy starts all over again and it's just "u fanboi, u iz stupid!".
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lavatoryloadMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 13Arc User
edited June 2013
It's not just about the META... it's the abilities -- so stop trying to make excuses for failed ****ing "fixes" on cryptic's behalf. My brother has a 14.5k GF and gets tooled by GWF's all day and we PVP a alot; yeah they will play tummy sticks for a long time going back an forth, but he still will loose in the end. It's broke, plain and simple, BROKE.
Great Weapon Fighter are weak against a well played Guardian Fighter if they are of equal strength by gear and player skill, Great Weapon Fighter can't avoid like any other class so unless they are unstoppable a Guardian Fighter can knock them prone and go to town. Rogues can quickly kill a control wizard but at the same time if a Control Wizard gets them in CC first they can finish them. Great Weapon fighter can kill a rogue easily enough if the rogue isn't hiding. Control wizards if keeping their distance especially up on higher ground always ready to punt can range a Guardian fighter keeping them at bay, a good stalemate in one vs one. Control Wizards should easily be killing the Clerics if they are of equal strength. Cleric is the only class that I don't expect to one vs one as well as the others, but a Cleric can make a two vs two in their favor with almost any other class. Rogues can strike hard and vanish quickly retreating making for a solid choice against a Guardian Fighter if they are smart enough not to try and face to face fight them.
Other than the fail of PvP being points by holding flags if it required meeting other conditions where time wasn't a factor I'd be crying with all the rogues out there that would just be in hiding waiting for that moment you drop your guard.
It's not just about the META... it's the abilities -- so stop trying to make excuses for failed ****ing "fixes" on cryptic's behalf. My brother has a 14.5k GF and gets tooled by GWF's all day and we PVP a alot; yeah they will play tummy sticks for a long time going back an forth, but he still will loose in the end. It's broke, plain and simple, BROKE.
I don't recall making ANY excuses, I stated facts, great weapon fighters CAN'T avoid like any other class this is a FACT. If your PvP'ing alot that also does not make you of equal skill to your opponent. I have a GF and I roll right over GWF class when I'm in the mood so obviously its not as much the class as your trying to claim or I should have no chance. I'll only fail against a GWF if I have other team members constantly feeding them unstoppable recharges.
I have a level 60 CW, TR, GWF, and GF. By far they're the toughest class to PVP at 60. No question. Fortunately, I'm in a good guild and do my best to play my part. Plus, I always position myself with a good exit strategy, or telly to my teammates if I get swarmed.
Dude try pugging with one. Its evil. All the other classes have realised your the easy beat after the poor DC and just troll you hard.
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chodermenMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited June 2013
To OP:
of course that GWF was OP. He paid $500+ on enchants. He should win.
Are you kidding I have max gear as a CW and I cant take down a GWF. You must have <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear. Are you Sent build. I don't think so. If you are a CW you don't pvp much nad you haven't PVP'd much since the patch which is obvious. Go play 5 games in a row and come back then.
Started a new Day 1 PVPing first game my team 1 DC 2 CW and 2 rogue vs 2 GWf 2 rogue and DC
suffice to say the GWF smack talking 2 mins in. Getting steamrolled first leaver 2.5mins GG
AS a CW PVP is dead to me atm. Its going to drive a lot of players away from the game.
GF and GWF now own PVP.
I have a 14k GF, 12k GWF 11k TR and 10kCW, No I don't play my CW very often since I don't like ranged combat however I understand the advantage of 80' range and 4 blinks. I never die on my CW unless another CW catches me with CC or the entire team is dead already and the opposing team mounts/sprints/deft strikes at me.
And no I haven't PvPd with my CW since patch, I have a GWF to play, but since they've done nothing to a GWF's gap closing ability there's no change in the fact a CW can infinite kite both Fighter classes. I'm sorry you don't use your range to full advantage and yes I'm sure it takes 5x longer now but it still remains CW can win. As for capping points a CW should be the last resort to capping a point, their job is to push the opposing team off the point and control from the back.
I watch CW getting in range of both my Fighters all day long in PvP and if you do that as a ranged class you deserve to die quickly.
Of course I'm sure both Fighters will get nerfed into the ground eventually and then I'll go back to never dying on my CW. It's typical of every MMO I've played that people cry about melee dmg because they don't understand ranged combat advantage and classes like mages end up grossly OP for months afterwards.
P.S. Lunging strike and flurry are incredibly easy to dodge even if they do get in range.
I have a 14k GF, 12k GWF 11k TR and 10kCW, No I don't play my CW very often since I don't like ranged combat however I understand the advantage of 80' range and 4 blinks. I never die on my CW unless another CW catches me with CC or the entire team is dead already and the opposing team mounts/sprints/deft strikes at me.
And no I haven't PvPd with my CW since patch, I have a GWF to play, but since they've done nothing to a GWF's gap closing ability there's no change in the fact a CW can infinite kite both Fighter classes. I'm sorry you don't use your range to full advantage and yes I'm sure it takes 5x longer now but it still remains CW can win. As for capping points a CW should be the last resort to capping a point, their job is to push the opposing team off the point and control from the back.
I watch CW getting in range of both my Fighters all day long in PvP and if you do that as a ranged class you deserve to die quickly.
Of course I'm sure both Fighters will get nerfed into the ground eventually and then I'll go back to never dying on my CW. It's typical of every MMO I've played that people cry about melee dmg because they don't understand ranged combat advantage and classes like mages end up grossly OP for months afterwards.
P.S. Lunging strike and flurry are incredibly easy to dodge even if they do get in range.
I call Shenanigans. I dont think you are being truthful looking at your history of posts. Id love to see your CW take down a sent build geared GWF.
All your posts are related to melee classes.
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
Great Weapon Fighter are weak against a well played Guardian Fighter if they are of equal strength by gear and player skill, Great Weapon Fighter can't avoid like any other class so unless they are unstoppable a Guardian Fighter can knock them prone and go to town. Rogues can quickly kill a control wizard but at the same time if a Control Wizard gets them in CC first they can finish them. Great Weapon fighter can kill a rogue easily enough if the rogue isn't hiding. Control wizards if keeping their distance especially up on higher ground always ready to punt can range a Guardian fighter keeping them at bay, a good stalemate in one vs one. Control Wizards should easily be killing the Clerics if they are of equal strength. Cleric is the only class that I don't expect to one vs one as well as the others, but a Cleric can make a two vs two in their favor with almost any other class. Rogues can strike hard and vanish quickly retreating making for a solid choice against a Guardian Fighter if they are smart enough not to try and face to face fight them.
Other than the fail of PvP being points by holding flags if it required meeting other conditions where time wasn't a factor I'd be crying with all the rogues out there that would just be in hiding waiting for that moment you drop your guard.
Try your CW out post patch rather than your GWF. You will find things are very very different now.
The CW's feats have major bugs and the nerfs vs other classes buffs have driven their survivability into the ground.try and then come back and see if you feel the same way.
The class isn't nearly as good as the rouges who just want to wipe the floor with the GWF (like they use to) make it out to be. I have my 60 GWF, which I leveled up while the class was still a doormat, so I see why people are complaining about it. It's a classic MMO thing. Poeple want something buffed just so they can ***** about it being op later. Yes, the class was bad, but now that you can actually do something in PvP in it, everyone thinks its OP.
PS. the only reason GWFs can activate the "thing that makes them bigger" is because they get it from taking damage from all of you rouges that try to kill every one in less the 3 seconds.
Comments
DC in PVP? Nonsense!
The map potions heal a lot. It will bring you back to full health. The GWF that you are fighting is sentinel GWF which is a tank paragon path with a increase on one skill that heal them a flat hp based on that one strike of damage. That will also need tank gears which take away a lot of damage (power, critical, and armor pent/ <in turn lower that heal strike potential>) and put in a lot of regeneration, defense, and deflection (some lifesteal in there, then woot). Also you should never let yourself be hit by a gwf because you guys are TR and CW (any damage to you is big damage). Dodge the GWF's skills like you should do. *Hint* You can still dodge like a second after a GWF stun skill hit you and it will be like it never happened (skills will be on cooldown). During the time GWF's skills are on cooldown, you go in there to poke him to death.
How about fix your character. I've had plenty of players give me a good run in PvP. They give us a decent buff and now everyone complains. I was doing fine pre-patch, now I have more survivability, and I like it. Helped me solo FH boss when the rest of the party went down, so leave it. I would bet the person you were playing had their proper skills and feats set. If they had a soulforged and it kicked in, that's another reason. But we are FAR from overpowered. I'd say just right now, perhaps a bit clunky with movement, but it's fine. TR invis mode is simply a build man, read up on your class more or something, I don't know.
You obviously don't understand CW much at all since you made a previous thread about nerf GF. There's no reason a CW should loose to a GF unless another CW caught them. I hope you get spanked by more GWF in the future and realize the error of posting that thread.
That being said CW can also take GWF 99% of the time, you simply have to stay max range and blink away when they unstoppable/sprint at you. Assuming the GWF slots the same 3 short range moves they all do, if they slot punishing charge for instance you're prolly dead no matter what you do. Sent/tene GWFs are on top right now.
Are you kidding I have max gear as a CW and I cant take down a GWF. You must have <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear. Are you Sent build. I don't think so. If you are a CW you don't pvp much nad you haven't PVP'd much since the patch which is obvious. Go play 5 games in a row and come back then.
Started a new Day 1 PVPing first game my team 1 DC 2 CW and 2 rogue vs 2 GWf 2 rogue and DC
suffice to say the GWF smack talking 2 mins in. Getting steamrolled first leaver 2.5mins GG
AS a CW PVP is dead to me atm. Its going to drive a lot of players away from the game.
GF and GWF now own PVP.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
yup and ppl keep using the skills whille they are on unstopable mode then Q.Q about it
i got me a cl a cw a tr and rolling a gwf now and i can tell u they aint gods u just cant spam skills and face tank them and expect to win lol.... only use skills when they are in normal mode...... then use normal at wills to kill the temp hp
of u stand there and at will them they gona go unstopable
Play one and see how you enjoy it now. They got the balance very very wrong. I understand you don't play one at all when you said shield to stop damage lol.
Thanks for making us your support team. Yay CW's
Seems like most ppl think TR/GF/GWF are OP... I have seen CWs do amazing against GWF/GF I have 2 shot TRs on my GF... I have had some trouble killing a well played DC on my GF, now obviously 1v1 a DC is going to have a hard time coming out on top in PVP but chances are if he can survive, one of his buddies can come help and take me out...
I have a level 60 CW, TR, GWF, and GF. By far they're the toughest class to PVP at 60. No question. Fortunately, I'm in a good guild and do my best to play my part. Plus, I always position myself with a good exit strategy, or telly to my teammates if I get swarmed.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Other than the fail of PvP being points by holding flags if it required meeting other conditions where time wasn't a factor I'd be crying with all the rogues out there that would just be in hiding waiting for that moment you drop your guard.
Claiming gear score = skilled = fail.
Dude try pugging with one. Its evil. All the other classes have realised your the easy beat after the poor DC and just troll you hard.
of course that GWF was OP. He paid $500+ on enchants. He should win.
If I see a GWF in reasonable GS, I take my full Timeless Hero GF and just move on to another node.
Between temp hps, speed kiting, heals, kd, dmg, its pointless.
I have a 14k GF, 12k GWF 11k TR and 10kCW, No I don't play my CW very often since I don't like ranged combat however I understand the advantage of 80' range and 4 blinks. I never die on my CW unless another CW catches me with CC or the entire team is dead already and the opposing team mounts/sprints/deft strikes at me.
And no I haven't PvPd with my CW since patch, I have a GWF to play, but since they've done nothing to a GWF's gap closing ability there's no change in the fact a CW can infinite kite both Fighter classes. I'm sorry you don't use your range to full advantage and yes I'm sure it takes 5x longer now but it still remains CW can win. As for capping points a CW should be the last resort to capping a point, their job is to push the opposing team off the point and control from the back.
I watch CW getting in range of both my Fighters all day long in PvP and if you do that as a ranged class you deserve to die quickly.
Of course I'm sure both Fighters will get nerfed into the ground eventually and then I'll go back to never dying on my CW. It's typical of every MMO I've played that people cry about melee dmg because they don't understand ranged combat advantage and classes like mages end up grossly OP for months afterwards.
P.S. Lunging strike and flurry are incredibly easy to dodge even if they do get in range.
I call Shenanigans. I dont think you are being truthful looking at your history of posts. Id love to see your CW take down a sent build geared GWF.
All your posts are related to melee classes.
GWF Weak? dont make me laugh...
Try your CW out post patch rather than your GWF. You will find things are very very different now.
The CW's feats have major bugs and the nerfs vs other classes buffs have driven their survivability into the ground.try and then come back and see if you feel the same way.
PS. the only reason GWFs can activate the "thing that makes them bigger" is because they get it from taking damage from all of you rouges that try to kill every one in less the 3 seconds.