I find it funny that. I want to see you say that the rogue is invisible almost all the time and has a damage resistance absurd and incredible in PvP ... that you do not speak your right wimp!?
Please stfu with your skill and strategy nonsense. There is no skill whatsoever for a sentinel GWF to go herp derp through 3-4 players on him and contest the point like it's nothing.
So what should a team do to counter these tank GWFs who backcap your point endlessly? Send more than one person to handle him while leaving mid with less people and easier for the enemy team to cap mid and win the game?
You're an idiot.
Another well reasoned post from an low-skill TR fanboyz. Sorry you are no longer totally OP but perhaps learning to use abilities other than LMB might help? If that is too much for you, then well.....
I find it funny that. I want to see you say that the rogue is invisible almost all the time and has a damage resistance absurd and incredible in PvP ... that you do not speak your right wimp!?
A perma-stealth TR that does little damage because they sacrificed damage for a longer stealth, is nothing compared to a sentinel GWF at the moment.
Damage resistance absurd? No, we have around 18% damage resistance not the 42% damage resistance and 30+% deflection your class has.
Excuse me, but in that video the player comes back from being down about 99% HP and didn't just steamroll past anyone. Since when is using skills effectively trolling? An OP class wouldn't be near death ever.
Look at the Ice Knife the CW does to him at 3:58, it barely moves his HP bar.
Yes, nerf a class because people are using high deflection gear with it.
Another well reasoned post from an low-skill TR fanboyz. Sorry you are no longer totally OP but perhaps learning to use abilities other than LMB might help? If that is too much for you, then well.....
Wtf is LMB? You can't even counter my argument about how sentinel GWFs can backcap your point with no consequence.
Excuse me, but in that video the player comes back from being down about 99% and didn't just steamroll past anyone. Since when is using skills effectively trolling? An OP class wouldn't be near death ever.Yes, nerf a class because people are using high deflection gear with it.
In the other part of the video, he takes on 3 people quite well. You even admitted indirectly that your class is OP and someone had to explain the difference to you between what a challenge is and being OP and now you come back like a moron to support your FOTM build.
As usal the problem is greater tenebrous. A defensive stat provides enourmous dps returns, which is frankly bad design, no tradeoffs. Especially for a class that can't get a lot of returns from dps stats.
Couple this with immunity and the only reasonable strat is "run away". But in a game where you win by BEING ABLE TO STAND ON A PLATFORM or creating superiority, it's just a clear stupid thing.
When devs aren't able to balance the game they just shift the OPness from class to class... in the long run all classes will be OP and the game will be statistically balanced, but no one will be satisfied.
You can't defend a mechanic that let 1 person be a 1manArmy in a domination match. Where is the rock/paper/scissors mantra? I'm perfectly fine if GWF were counters to rogues and cw, but they aren't just that (and not only cause of CWs bugs), they have no 1v1 counters as sentinels, not even "good rogues". They are just at the top of the food chain in pvp once geared. And OP in pvp is not a compensation for UP in pve, it's BAD DESIGN.
In the other part of the video, he takes on 3 people quite well. You even admitted indirectly that your class is OP and someone had to explain the difference to you between what a challenge is and being OP and now you come back like a moron to support your FOTM build.
I must have been watching another video because I saw a CW take his HP down to near death 1v1
As usal the problem is greater tenebrous. A defensive stat provides enourmous dps returns, which is frankly bad design, no tradeoffs. Especially for a class that can't get a lot of returns from dps stats.
Couple this with immunity and the only reasonable strat is "run away". But in a game where you win by BEING ABLE TO STAND ON A PLATFORM or creating superiority, it's just a clear stupid thing.
When devs aren't able to balance the game they just shift the OPness from class to class... in the long run all classes will be OP and the game will be statistically balanced, but no one will be satisfied.
You can't defend a mechanic that let 1 person be a 1manArmy in a domination match. Where is the rock/paper/scissors mantra? I'm perfectly fine if GWF were counters to rogues and cw, but they aren't just that (and not only cause of CWs bugs), they have no 1v1 counters as sentinels, not even "good rogues". They are just at the top of the food chain in pvp once geared. And OP in pvp is not a compensation for UP in pve, it's BAD DESIGN.
Finally, someone gets it. I couldn't have said any better myself.
People like this really boggle my mind. Would it be end of the world to actually admit, when a class is over powered. You see my weakness playing a CW, that I wear cloth. However my strength, I can shoot from ranged and blink really fast. The Guardians only weakness is that move slower, they can have extreme dps and best blocking gear. Isn't that the defined meaning of overpowered, if their one weakness if moving slowly.
I used blink many times on a Guardian, my cool runs run out then they can do ONE SINGLE move the knocks my health to half, before I can even react in another move they can kill me. They also can take much much more damage for longer period and dish out extreme damage.
Exactly, how is that balanced when they can dish out extreme dps, and wear best armor protection. Their weakness is only moving slowly but they can still charge.
Um... thought we were talking about gwf not gf.... weird... anywho... gf is OP no brainer.... gwf is super easy to kite while he got unstoppable(ppl are just super bad -fyi 90% of planets population is nothing more then a brainless biomass- )... TR yes OP.... CW yes OP.... it's proly GF vs TR right now for top pvp class... then cw vs gwf...
Carnage TR Dragon shard - retired? hell yea it's retired along with Nevewinter
Lol try to play TR now after the nerf and buffs to other classes and realize how stupid you are. Easiest class eh? Try to use TR and Fight a well geared GWF or GF in PvP when u reach lvl 60. And you'll realize how much strategy and tricks u must use to kill them and it takes ages to kill them without daily. As a skilled TR I am always able to trick melee classes with only bait and switch, stealth, and dodge. Since they made TR, who is the MAIN DPS CLASS in these game, not capable of trading blows to almost all class especially GWF and GF all TR will be force to always sneak or backstab enemies and use tricks or strategy to kill them which is normal for a TRICKSTER rogue, but since they buffed GF and GWF too much and nerf TR too much. 12 daggers (cloud of steel) isn't enough to kite them or use encounters then run and hide then do the same combo because they're so tanky yet decent damage and good stun skills. What makes u think its the easiest class? Is it when a TR 1-3 shot someone and you'll be like"Ugh f***** OP" lol if a TR can't kill his target fast then how the heck is he going to kill his target? Simply by stealth and throw daggers but ppl is asking to nerf these so if they nerf these give us an idea how to kill a GWF or GF in 1v1 without trading blows? Isn't that stupid when an assassin sneak on to you and succeeded on stabbing you unaware, but because of the stunlocks GWF have or stuns of other classes the assassin failed. So its very very obvious that a TR who is a squishy class must kill its target fast before they get stunlock and slaughtered. Some of the ppl r just so stupid that they're asking to nerf TR big time at the point they'll have the same dps with the Gwf, Gf, and CW. what would be there role in PvE then? ppl who doesn't think first b4 asking to nerf TR are the PvP players. These game is Dungeons and Dragons it concentrates in Dungeons not PvP. I played GWF and its kinda boring all u have to do is get inside the combat then "baam! boom! slash! roar!" in short u only have to go near to the target and swing ur sword for a living. Now is there any reason to say a TR is the most OP and easiest class to use when fighting a GWF and GF? Sure you can kill GWF and GF but those r the players who have lower GS than you. I've fought many well geared GWF and GF and obviously they're soooo not skilled. They'll only chase you then stun and another stun (TR's HP is 1/2 or 2/3)then slash and repeat the same combo. I mean wtf? that is so ****.
This wall of Text is by far the most Op $hit I've ever seen, Wall of text crit Gwf for 82,647 damage, Gwf Dies.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
Temporary HP is only Temporary. Unstoppable is not really unstoppable. GWF need determination to activate Unstoppable. Determination is gained by engaging in combat, taking damage and killing opponents. If you switch to other targets when a GWF is unstoppable he won't generate determination fast enough to remain unstoppable.
I think the real problem is the knock down. Unstoppable can be stopped.
As usal the problem is greater tenebrous. A defensive stat provides enourmous dps returns, which is frankly bad design, no tradeoffs. Especially for a class that can't get a lot of returns from dps stats.
Couple this with immunity and the only reasonable strat is "run away". But in a game where you win by BEING ABLE TO STAND ON A PLATFORM or creating superiority, it's just a clear stupid thing.
When devs aren't able to balance the game they just shift the OPness from class to class... in the long run all classes will be OP and the game will be statistically balanced, but no one will be satisfied.
You can't defend a mechanic that let 1 person be a 1manArmy in a domination match. Where is the rock/paper/scissors mantra? I'm perfectly fine if GWF were counters to rogues and cw, but they aren't just that (and not only cause of CWs bugs), they have no 1v1 counters as sentinels, not even "good rogues". They are just at the top of the food chain in pvp once geared. And OP in pvp is not a compensation for UP in pve, it's BAD DESIGN.
Out of everything posted in this thread this made the most sense. The developers really need to take a step back and reevaluate the use of Great Tenebrous Enchantment being stacked the way they are. Also, if people are expecting players who play Gwf to jump on the (We are Op) bandwagon you may was well stop thinking that.
9 Years of World of Warcraft taught me that even when you Know your Op, you never admit your Op...PERIOD. It's like the one rule of playing your class, you fight to the bitter end all the while blindly arguing against any one who throws logic, or evidence in the mix.
You fight the good fight until the developers come a long and Nominate another class as (Needing a Buff), and Then, AND ONLY THEN, do you admittedly own up to being (just a tad) op.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
GF are nastier than GWF in PvP full geared but maybe because GFs tend to punt me out of my Astral Shield circles...
/shrug
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millertime197933Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 124Bounty Hunter
edited June 2013
I play a GWF and yes it is very hard to kill me in PVP. However I built and geared the character that way, but made sacrifices to do so. I use the T2 Titan's set, which is a defensive oriented set with regeneration, and all of my other slots, such as waste, rings, neck, etc, are selected to build regeneration. I stand at 1200 regeneration, 3k defense, 1300 deflection, and have about 800 lifesteal. On top of that, all of my feats are selected for hp regeneration. The GWF has a few skills available that lets them heal an additional % of hps when they click unstoppable and when they are healed. I also use restoring strike as an encounter which is a solid 2k heal every use. But the catch is, I don't do any worthwhile DPS. I can survive long enough to prevent a point from gaining points for the other team, I can tie up a member or two of the other team, but I won't be able to rack up kills so to speak. The only way I can really get a kill is if I use my daily, however with this build I dont regenerate a lot of AP. I totally sold out on survival in terms of gear, feats, and ability points. It is a trade off. But before everyone says, NERF GWF!, Just understand that every class has ways that they are overpowered. GF's can keep you from standing up, rogues and wizards can one shot you. Clerics can also be hard to kill if they design their build for kiting and high defensive stats.
We tend to focus on the strengths, but not the weakness inherent in the trade off. I don't have tenebrous enchantments because they are too expensive for me at the moment. But ask yourself this, if I went up against a rogue, with full t2 gear, and full tenebrous enchantments, he'd prolly eat my lunch pretty quick right? I also play a 60 rogue and I have no problem killing GWFs with him. I pop lurkers assault and stay ranged and use cloud of steel and impact shot. Then I roll in and try to use lashing blade. All from stealth. At that point, if the GWF is still alive, he generally runs away to regenerate/grab a pot, or he stays and dies. To me that is balanced. Every class has the ability to excel, but there are always gonna be folks who are better geared, or maybe even play a little better/smarter. Also if the GWF clicks their unstoppable, just run away until it wears off, or focus on another toon. It only lasts a few seconds.
Here's another tip. When a GWF takes damage, it regenerates his unstoppable bar, which is what makes him turn big, get temporary hps, and mitigate most incoming damage. It also breaks CC except for knockdown/prone attacks. So use those attacks because that prevents the GWF from clicking unstoppable. A GF can pretty much kill me if they cycle all their knockdown attacks. Definitely if they have someone with them also. GWF also have no encounter or ability to close the gap with CWs who stand on pillars or the bridge over point 2 in either of the PVP instances.
Those are just a few things that I experienced that made PVP harder for me. Keep in mind that when folks scream a class is overpowered in PVP, it doesn't make your dungeon experience any better in PVE. If you take away a GWFs survivability, they wont be very useful in PVE, they will just be under DPSing rogues with no smoke bomb. Just saying.
@millertime197933 You basically said that an OP mechanic is the only way to deal with another OP mechanic (perma stealth vs gwfs).
This just confirms that there is no balance in pvp and no balance between pvp and pve.
One real issue I see from watching that Video and playing a GWF isn't that the class is massively overpowered and unkillable, it's that we have a CC immunity skill and a sprint and they put these stupid healing potions on the landscape. We can basically run away and full heal from any fight whenever we want to. And the potions do more healing over time than we even have, so if you go back into combat after running over the potion people have to burn through more more than just your full health. Our self heal is pretty weak, and the temporary morale bubble from unstoppable can be dps'd through or waited out, but when you combine our survivability with being by far the fastest class on foot, it does feel a bit trollish. We probably shouldn't be able to occupy 3 or 4 peoples time contesting a point and then be able to walk away from the situation and survive whenever we want to. They need to consider removing or randomizing the location of the health potions.
I think u guys are missing the point, the problem why GWF are OP in this pvp-meta is that only domination exists. If there was death-match etc. they would not be so OP, but beeing able to stand and contest a point alone vs 1-3 people without dying nearest 5 min and also do massive dmg with perma stun lock, that is something nobody else can do in pvp domination, which is how you win pvp domination, standing in point. wizards are awsome, the problem is that their place is anywere BUT the points since they get killed really quickly if they are not kiting.
The main point is that u always need atleast 2 to kill the GWF camping ur base, which makes the game a 3v4 situation thanks to the tankiness of one class. Nerf the unstoppable ability together with lowering their armor class a hunch and they are still good, just not OP in domination, and also BRING OUT NEW PVP MODS FOR GOD SAKE! WE WANT KILLS, KILLS AND DEATHS, NOT KINGS OF HILLS!
EDIT: A good nerf would be, "While sprinting, you cannot be in unstoppable mode" would solve many issues with this
Or "Cannot sprint in unstoppable mode due to beeing too fat"
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bayne3Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Yep, without those health pots that GWF would've died. Enemy team should have stolen it instead. I'm always looking over the edge to see if it respawned.
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oakbenderMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
if the GWF think they are not overpowered please give us the ability to solo fight 3 or more classes at once and they might be able to kill us if they run away and never fight us. sounds fair to me. I understand GWF needed a boost but god mode is not fun to play against.
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bayne3Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
1 fully geared 6 tenebr gwf vs 3 fully geared 6 tenebr... u have got to be kidding me.... he dies even before he can pop unstoppable right after soulforged is off.... u just green geared noobs who fight 15k GS GWF's with lvl 50 greenz 3 vs 1.... get some nice gear and stop spreading misinformation.... 15k CW\TR vs 15k GWF... gwf is so dead...
Carnage TR Dragon shard - retired? hell yea it's retired along with Nevewinter
Please stfu with your skill and strategy nonsense. There is no skill whatsoever for a sentinel GWF to go herp derp through 3-4 players on him and contest the point like it's nothing.
So what should a team do to counter these tank GWFs who backcap your point endlessly? Send more than one person to handle him while leaving mid with less people and easier for the enemy team to cap mid and win the game?
You're an idiot.
A CW with right encounters slotted can play pingpong with GWF for quite some while, granted if the GWF doesn't have usual cookiecutter encounters slotted he might have a chance . Just today I took some way better geared GWF for a walk, from one map end to another...and back. What everyone must learn is to hold back everything and run away until unstoppable drops and GWF is reduced to mere nuisance.
1 fully geared 6 tenebr gwf vs 3 fully geared 6 tenebr... u have got to be kidding me.... he dies even before he can pop unstoppable right after soulforged is off.... u just green geared noobs who fight 15k GS GWF's with lvl 50 greenz 3 vs 1.... get some nice gear and stop spreading misinformation.... 15k CW\TR vs 15k GWF... gwf is so dead...
agree 100% altho some endgame enchants are still over powered and it throws pvp off but, gwf its self is not overpower
I can't help but notice that almost every match the GWF is the most difficult person to kill. Most times it takes 2-3 people all working on a single GWF to kill him. This doesn't seem to be a one off either with an over geared GWF - its most of them I come across now.
Knock back ability? Check
Self healing ability? Check
Increased survivability by being able to flee when they've reached low hp? Check
Can break through daze? Check
I think the GWF needs to be at least looked at and rebalanced personally.
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bayne3Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I think the GWF needs to be at least looked at and rebalanced personally.
You can have a self healing ability too if you stack lifesteal and regen. The only ability we have that we normally use (minus that bad pvp set) that can give us life is unstoppable, but it is temp hp and disappears after unstoppable ends. You just need to understand how the GWF mechanics work to beat them. I mean, sentinels are a tank spec, if you remove or nerf those abilities you have a GWF that doesn't do damage and doesn't tank.
Here's a trick, if you have 5 guys hitting a sentinel and he goes unstoppable, stop hitting him and disperse (save your cooldowns, he can't hit everyone in different directions). When he comes out of unstoppable, unleash on him. 9 out of 10 times, I see players do the opposite and only feed his lifesteal.
Comments
Another well reasoned post from an low-skill TR fanboyz. Sorry you are no longer totally OP but perhaps learning to use abilities other than LMB might help? If that is too much for you, then well.....
A perma-stealth TR that does little damage because they sacrificed damage for a longer stealth, is nothing compared to a sentinel GWF at the moment.
Damage resistance absurd? No, we have around 18% damage resistance not the 42% damage resistance and 30+% deflection your class has.
Wtf is LMB? You can't even counter my argument about how sentinel GWFs can backcap your point with no consequence.
In the other part of the video, he takes on 3 people quite well. You even admitted indirectly that your class is OP and someone had to explain the difference to you between what a challenge is and being OP and now you come back like a moron to support your FOTM build.
Multiple Personas, only 'One' me
"Why should one devolve themselves to try and entertain those of a lesser mindset around them?"
Couple this with immunity and the only reasonable strat is "run away". But in a game where you win by BEING ABLE TO STAND ON A PLATFORM or creating superiority, it's just a clear stupid thing.
When devs aren't able to balance the game they just shift the OPness from class to class... in the long run all classes will be OP and the game will be statistically balanced, but no one will be satisfied.
You can't defend a mechanic that let 1 person be a 1manArmy in a domination match. Where is the rock/paper/scissors mantra? I'm perfectly fine if GWF were counters to rogues and cw, but they aren't just that (and not only cause of CWs bugs), they have no 1v1 counters as sentinels, not even "good rogues". They are just at the top of the food chain in pvp once geared. And OP in pvp is not a compensation for UP in pve, it's BAD DESIGN.
Finally, someone gets it. I couldn't have said any better myself.
Um... thought we were talking about gwf not gf.... weird... anywho... gf is OP no brainer.... gwf is super easy to kite while he got unstoppable(ppl are just super bad -fyi 90% of planets population is nothing more then a brainless biomass- )... TR yes OP.... CW yes OP.... it's proly GF vs TR right now for top pvp class... then cw vs gwf...
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
This wall of Text is by far the most Op $hit I've ever seen, Wall of text crit Gwf for 82,647 damage, Gwf Dies.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
I think the real problem is the knock down. Unstoppable can be stopped.
Out of everything posted in this thread this made the most sense. The developers really need to take a step back and reevaluate the use of Great Tenebrous Enchantment being stacked the way they are. Also, if people are expecting players who play Gwf to jump on the (We are Op) bandwagon you may was well stop thinking that.
9 Years of World of Warcraft taught me that even when you Know your Op, you never admit your Op...PERIOD. It's like the one rule of playing your class, you fight to the bitter end all the while blindly arguing against any one who throws logic, or evidence in the mix.
You fight the good fight until the developers come a long and Nominate another class as (Needing a Buff), and Then, AND ONLY THEN, do you admittedly own up to being (just a tad) op.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
/shrug
We tend to focus on the strengths, but not the weakness inherent in the trade off. I don't have tenebrous enchantments because they are too expensive for me at the moment. But ask yourself this, if I went up against a rogue, with full t2 gear, and full tenebrous enchantments, he'd prolly eat my lunch pretty quick right? I also play a 60 rogue and I have no problem killing GWFs with him. I pop lurkers assault and stay ranged and use cloud of steel and impact shot. Then I roll in and try to use lashing blade. All from stealth. At that point, if the GWF is still alive, he generally runs away to regenerate/grab a pot, or he stays and dies. To me that is balanced. Every class has the ability to excel, but there are always gonna be folks who are better geared, or maybe even play a little better/smarter. Also if the GWF clicks their unstoppable, just run away until it wears off, or focus on another toon. It only lasts a few seconds.
Here's another tip. When a GWF takes damage, it regenerates his unstoppable bar, which is what makes him turn big, get temporary hps, and mitigate most incoming damage. It also breaks CC except for knockdown/prone attacks. So use those attacks because that prevents the GWF from clicking unstoppable. A GF can pretty much kill me if they cycle all their knockdown attacks. Definitely if they have someone with them also. GWF also have no encounter or ability to close the gap with CWs who stand on pillars or the bridge over point 2 in either of the PVP instances.
Those are just a few things that I experienced that made PVP harder for me. Keep in mind that when folks scream a class is overpowered in PVP, it doesn't make your dungeon experience any better in PVE. If you take away a GWFs survivability, they wont be very useful in PVE, they will just be under DPSing rogues with no smoke bomb. Just saying.
This just confirms that there is no balance in pvp and no balance between pvp and pve.
The main point is that u always need atleast 2 to kill the GWF camping ur base, which makes the game a 3v4 situation thanks to the tankiness of one class. Nerf the unstoppable ability together with lowering their armor class a hunch and they are still good, just not OP in domination, and also BRING OUT NEW PVP MODS FOR GOD SAKE! WE WANT KILLS, KILLS AND DEATHS, NOT KINGS OF HILLS!
EDIT: A good nerf would be, "While sprinting, you cannot be in unstoppable mode" would solve many issues with this
Or "Cannot sprint in unstoppable mode due to beeing too fat"
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
A CW with right encounters slotted can play pingpong with GWF for quite some while, granted if the GWF doesn't have usual cookiecutter encounters slotted he might have a chance
Knock back ability? Check
Self healing ability? Check
Increased survivability by being able to flee when they've reached low hp? Check
Can break through daze? Check
I think the GWF needs to be at least looked at and rebalanced personally.
Here's a trick, if you have 5 guys hitting a sentinel and he goes unstoppable, stop hitting him and disperse (save your cooldowns, he can't hit everyone in different directions). When he comes out of unstoppable, unleash on him. 9 out of 10 times, I see players do the opposite and only feed his lifesteal.
Wonder if I could find a video of (insert class here (except DC)) making the (insert class here) look OP....
Dang you exempted DCs... I would have had you there!