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GF - Issue Holding Threat
cihuacoatl
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1 Arc User
I am level 30 atm and completely built to hold threat. I have every feat i can get to hold threat. However I find it very difficult to hold it on more than 1 mob. Even then it seems almost impossible to keep it of of clerics and DPS. Yes, sometimes I can though I have a feeling it is mostly only when I strip it from everyone else.
Any other GF having issues...
Any other GF having issues...
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You're not the only one having issues holding threat. I have heard several people with this exact complaint and I have noticed myself that it is a real chore trying to establish threat in this game. In my humble opinion, the issue probably lies with poor threat scaling and the lack of additional threat modifiers on general attack abilities. For example, cleave should be generating X% extra threat per swing in addition to the increase threat from improved mark. Our primary filler generate less threat than a normal damage dealers attack. Instead of using damage as the direct modifier to threat values, there should simply be a set amount of innate threat established with all attacks, and the value needs to be something that ensures the tank can stay ahead of high and overzealous damage dealers with good play.
I think the tanking aspect of the game is poorly designed and needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.
Not sure if this is a new approach to MMO's or if there is something wrong with aggro/threat mechanics in the game at the moment.
As a 24 Cleric, you know I have taken my fair share of damage and at times it is very tough to survive (unless I cheat and use a pot.. hehe), but I think that this might be the strategic design. It forces the rest of the group to know what they are doing as well.. which is not to focus on the boss and instead take down the little guys first.
Since everyone can dodge out of dangerous situations, I do not think that this is to be played like a traditional MMO. If it was, then there would be no need to dodge.. ever.
- Drizzt Do'Urden
― R.A. Salvatore
+1 signed.
The block system ITSELF is utterly bad, it forces you to stay at one place or crawl while trying to move. In a fast paced encounter where adds do spawn like everywhere block mechanic hurts the class, not to mention it is only useful vs auto attacks and bad versus void zone like abilitys where blink and co simply outshine block by far.
When doing trash packs, you are not needed anyway, since you can aoe them down with no danger while the cleric keeps everyone at like 100% hp, you are only good at tanking the BOSS itself. Yet no one does need a gf for that, since you can just dodge his most dangerous attacks and counter heal the remaining standard hits with no problem.
So far the "Best" current setup for elite dungeons looks like:
1-3 clerics
1-3 cw's
one melee
With 2 wizards you can pretty much aoe nuke and cc all trash packs or boss spawns. Only mandatory class needed is ONE cleric and ONE CW. The more the better. Worst part is i am playing a GF and i am very sad;(
I agree. I have found that the most a GF can hope for is to hold the boss still. GF just simply cannot pull mobs off of anyone. I'm not sure that you want to though... You really don't want those archers plinking away at your health, the dps just has to kill them. And I'm not sure how your stamina generation goes but do you want boss and 3-4 boss-like ads on you doing their red circles on you the entire time? You'd pretty much have to block the entire time.
My threat sucks here too.
Lvl 26, everything is specced for +threat
I'm sorry you are sad, but yes... I agree with your assessment... the more CW or DC in party, the better it goes simply because they can AOE hit the boss as well as the many **** ads. Parties with mostly melee are a pain.
Toons:
New: CW Level 60
GF = Level 60
DC = Level 60
TR = Level 60
I have found most tanks had issues until I actually started running with my golem. Between my golem and the GF, the boss did not budge.
I have been too afraid to run a dungeon without my golem ever since I've seen how well it works...
The AOEs kill ads and make it easier for everyone to stay alive though... I'd rather have 2 wizards and say to hell with threat and aggro than a GF that tells the wizard not to AOE the ads. (cleric myself)
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?158921-Discussion-Topic-How-do-you-view-tanking-in-NW
"Perfecting the art of being a meatshield since 1998"
Banners of the Light
Yeah agreed, but at the same time, some players will do it where it's not needed, why push the ads away from the tank? (in some situtations)
Toons:
New: CW Level 60
GF = Level 60
DC = Level 60
TR = Level 60
^^^ Annoying.... x.x
"Perfecting the art of being a meatshield since 1998"
Banners of the Light
Tank companions are infuriating. You can spend all this time building up threat and they just take it in a few seconds meaning you wasted all that time.
Marked is a very, very poorly designed system. The whole mechanic is that while the Target is marked, you'll deal so much extra threat that it sticks on you. That is true and if I have something marked and I am attacking it I always regain threat on it (provided no Tank companions). The problem is that the way Mark leaves the target, basically when it hits you on a non blocked attack. This creates all sorts of huge headaches in mechanic and how it actually plays out.
Basically the scenario goes if you're taking on one big thing (such as a boss) you're alright if you can keep the target marked and keep your Guard meter up in between taunts. During Taunt you then use that period to build back up your Guard meter with your At-Will since it's forced to attack you and then Mark it again and then go back to fighting while Guarding. The extra threat powers and passives are more than enough to keep the target like this since you can just keep spam hitting the guy while blocking.
If you try to tank too much the Guard meter will break prematurely and you will lose Mark on your targets and you will lose them shortly after because you don't deal like any threat at all without Mark on the target. Tanking too many heavy hitter mobs like this will decimate your Guard as well (such as 2 Ogres or 2 Battle Wights etc) and you will lose threat shortly after because you will get hit normally and lose the Mark on the target.
The crappy part is there's virtually no way to really improve our Guard recovery and most methods that generate it only generate it at a very tiny amount a tick. That means once you do lose your Guard, there's a whole chunk of time where you're running around bashing with your shield while getting wailed on cause your Guard is basically gone. The Taunt generates almost no Guard meter back and other higher level tools are the same.
What they really need to do is make Mark be a static duration debuff (5s base, improvable somehow to 7.5-10s) that when you hit with an attack while Guarding will refresh the duration. This way you still have to Guard to keep the duration up but you aren't now totally boned once your Guard meter is gone to give yourself a few seconds in between to generate more Guard to keep tanking.
However first things first, STOP USING AOE KNOCKBACKS AND COMPLAIN ABOUT TANKS! (sorry its tough as it is, and people who spam aoe knockbacks anger me so very much...)
The mark mechanic is weird, and needs an overhaul, as a tank its my job to get hit, its also my job to know when to guard and not to guard. Sometimes you need to let the mob hit your normally so why should in that case my mark fall off? I just do not get that at all. I personally think they should change mark to be limited to 1 target, not fall off when you get damaged. So you can ensure keep at least 1 mob angry at you.
Also, guardians need to be able to cancel attacks mid swing, the whole, i start a swing so does the boss, now i cant block thing is a bit odd to me.
Thanks that you agree on this sadness:D
"Perfecting the art of being a meatshield since 1998"
Banners of the Light
I would love to see this right here implemented.
The aoe taunt i use whenever it pops to try and keep my 'tougher' mobs locked in, i think with practice i will get it all down to a science, but for now that's the best advice i can give ya
+1 Before you even start the dungeon, tell anyone in your party to drop that stupid follower..