The most frequently asked question out of 60+ pages is essentially;
"What will happen to those who did the exploit prior to 7 hrs? This was a known bug from the start, so why was nothing done prior to this incident?"
Also,
"What about those exploiters (mentioned above) and 'mule' characters? They will still have the AD/zen/items"
The fact that this question has not been properly addressed is a HUGE issue - this is THE SINGLE MOST ASKED QUESTION.
I know that it may be impossible to say "oh this and this will happen", but at least ACKNOWLEDGE that this is a concern - even a vague statement of "we will do extensive investigation once we resolve the more important issue of getting the game back up and running smoothly"
By acknowledging that - you are providing at least SOME semblance of certainty and reassurance to your loyal (and PAYING) customers!
They did acknowledge that, and have made statements on it in multiple threads.
They are tracking down each exploiter AND their mules via transaction logs, and are employing every appropriate punishment - and I quote - "including but not limited to perma-banning."
Thanks Neverwinter!!
I am well surprised how professional and good your work on this problems is, in fact this is the openBeta.
But a further question would be .. has this Event/Exploit any influence on the Launch of the original Game?
0
fallenweebleMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited May 2013
Giving an amount of AD to everyone won't solve anything, prices will go up. Do you even economy?
They can easily give your Zen and founder's pack stuff back. Only thing you'll lose is time. They need to do a full wipe to actually solve this problem.
They made an announcement that no server wipe will be done after the open beta. If they do it, none will ever trust them, now or in future PWE games.
They houwever could kill the actual servers and open new servers, so that who want to have a fresh start, can CHOOSE to.
I've played STO for 3 years, as well as Jade Dynasty, as well as Champions, and Torchlight. I definitely would trust them, even if they were somehow forced to do a server wipe. They said they would not, and they have not. The rollback should undo the greatest damage when the few (exploiter) became the many (exploiters).
I do like the idea of a new server that persons have an option to migrate to. No wealth or character migration, just your account unlocks and starting over.
I think that this hole thing is a shame its turning into a very good game and like always a few very dishonest people spoil it for the many wish more people told on these people and they get proper banning
Banning doesn't always solve and neither does wipe; This fact from Aeria with Scarlet Blade who instead of solving the disappearance problem right away, let slide for a week and half. The AH there has been overprice for weeks now due to exploits. This is based on F2P due that bots are able to come in. At least this game has report spam button in mail.
Hm, 7 hours rollback - great, all progession I made yesterday with my friends is gone. I don't care about items / AD / AH while leveling, since most items will be opsolut when I hit 60, but TIME is important to me. How you gonna replace MY TIME I have spent?
Hundreds of thousands of manhours would be lost in a wipe. The people who keep on asking for a wipe are delusional if they think PW would go to that length. The people who keep citing polls needs to get real and understand that there are so many people who would not vote in such a poll because it is akin to asking if we should nuke russia. You would only get a bunch of yay from the loonies while those who understand the issue doesn't need to vote because the question isn't sensible. Of course the loonies would say only communists would vote no too.
I'm sure that with this rollback there is substantially fewer number of accounts that they have to clean up.
That said, NW has plenty of mechanics that deflate AD over time so even if they do not get rid of it all, the economy will recover. If you look at Blizzard with the recent Diablo 3 gold exploit, in the end they had to accept that 15% of all duped gold would still be in the economy. It is perfectly reasonable to accept a little bit of inflation, compared to annihilating the entire economy. It is so very obvious.
Hey blo0dy farktards, what time are the forking servers coming back up.
Fooking hell, do your fooking job pigs.
You incompetent pigs disgust me.
The person who hired you is a da177n <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Fokking pigs; that's what ye are.
Never seen <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> as bad as you.
Fix the servers, eat <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> n die already.
Forking mud faced idi0tic m0rons.
Seriously fokk you.
Do you forking know how long was the downtime.
Forksh1t bustards! Every single one of you.
Especially if a bl0ody fooking basturd deletes this.
Sw1nes. You should not eat drink nor sleep till this is fixed and you are still taking your own bl0ody sweet time.
Forking piece of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that's beneath a sw1ne.
you sir, should be perma-banned.
0
fattynicksMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
So, either they're lying completely about their actions (and so have other game developers like Blizzard), or they have a way to log all that transaction info efficiently.
Now, I'm no programmer, but I do know that most games have backups of the entire game going back at least to the last few major updates with no problem. I don't see why 3 weeks of transaction logs would overwhelm an entire roomful of servers.
Because that entire room full of servers is running 14 games that PWE operates. All of which have millions of changes and transactions per day. Luckily this was only a month long ordeal, and they can probably have these log files.
Likely the character backups are done at certain times, and not every single change made to an account is backed up to be rolled back to. They picked 7 hours because that was the character backup for this week more than likely, and the next backup was a week before that, which is longer than they wanted to roll back (which i'm glad because it would be like I never played the game)
Granted databases are highly efficient these days, and don't take much space to save the data. But you gotta also realize how many people are playing this game, how many have multiple accounts, etc. Its a LOT of data. The backups are likely not even made on the servers themselves because of space restrictions, and are on networked backup machines with huge RAID setups. Which also explains the lengthy downtime as they have to transfer these terabytes upon terabytes of data back to the shards, which is limited by the connection between the backup machines and the servers. Its also why they can't provide an ETA because nobody in the world has figured out a reliable method of reporting the progress of a file transfer on any system ever, and for unexplained reasons these transfers can drop speeds for a bit, changing the estimate since it goes by amount transferred in a given amount of time divided by the amount of time it took to transfer that data. Especially when it comes to transferring multiple files. Network speeds are good when the files are large, but when it comes to lots of small files, the transfer speed drops exponentially because it has to wait for the drives to create the files in the file allocation tables.
for me is UTC + 7 so my time is ahead 15 hours from PDT
Incorrect. PDT is UTC -7. PST is -8, and the announcement specifically mentions PDT (any any PT in the summer should be considered PDT, for safe timekeeping)
Hm, 7 hours rollback - great, all progession I made yesterday with my friends is gone. I don't care about items / AD / AH while leveling, since most items will be opsolut when I hit 60, but TIME is important to me. How you gonna replace MY TIME I have spent?
The time that you spent on this game is your responsibility, not theirs. They didn't tell you to play it.
Wow invasion of the Join Date: May 2013 Users and they all seem to be either defending the game or asking for a wipe. Employees and banned exploiters on new accounts?
Couldn't have anything to do with the fact that the game went into Open Beta on April 30 2013 and we're still in the month of May, of course. But I'm sure that point will be lost on you.
0
infexomMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 12Arc User
WHile some of your post is valid, the "get a better job" thing shows that you're either incredibly naive, or you haven't had to search for a job in the US within the past 6 years. Bit of trivia for you: it's not as easy as just filling out an application. People with doctorates can't find jobs. Most places outside the major metro areas aren't hiring, and even inside the metro areas it's rough due to too much competition for too few jobs. I'm employed with a degree & tons of experience, and still haven't been able to find a better-paying job in the year I've been looking.
Get to know the real world, get some compassion, and learn to make your points without being a complete jerk about it.
Perhaps I was a little harsh. However, it was targeted to the people that keep saying how stupid we are for paying money on something we enjoy. That's all. For the hardworking people that are in a bad situation, I apologize for sounding like a jerk. It's not directed at you. I have had to look for jobs in the past 6 years, but luckily I'm in a fairly high position within the oil patch, so jobs are kinda thrown at you all the time. I'm not better than you or anyone else... again, I was addressing the people complaining about how I spend the money I earn.
Imagine you are the game studio - what is the best way of fixing the problem?
If they do an entire wipe - many will complain
If they do a small rollback - many will complain
If they do nothing - many will complain
Do you see the pattern here?
I think that this was the 'lesser of all evils'
Doing nothing is clearly a terrible idea
A full wipe both; goes against their promise of 'no wipes' AND makes a LOT of players not want to start all over.
I think if only 25-35% of the playerbase knew PRIOR to the 7 hrs - then focusing on perma-banning them is relatively feasable and a good plan - even if a majority of the AD/ZEN is gone/on other characters.
If DURING the alleged '7 hrs' >50% of the playerbase knew - then that rollback is the best solution.
I think the biggest problem out of this entire thread is the fact that - in the OP by the admit; it is said (paraphrased) "we will respond to any of the most frequently asked questions in this thread"
The most frequently asked question out of 60+ pages is essentially;
"What will happen to those who did the exploit prior to 7 hrs? This was a known bug from the start, so why was nothing done prior to this incident?"
Also,
"What about those exploiters (mentioned above) and 'mule' characters? They will still have the AD/zen/items"
The fact that this question has not been properly addressed is a HUGE issue - this is THE SINGLE MOST ASKED QUESTION.
I know that it may be impossible to say "oh this and this will happen", but at least ACKNOWLEDGE that this is a concern - even a vague statement of "we will do extensive investigation once we resolve the more important issue of getting the game back up and running smoothly"
By acknowledging that - you are providing at least SOME semblance of certainty and reassurance to your loyal (and PAYING) customers!
Yawn... have you not read the many many responses about what is being done with accounts prior to the window who were exploiting? For those, its a small enough number that they can afford the manpower to deal with them on a case by case.
Its been acknowledged several times... Hell go read the GD FAQ that headed this entire thread. What on earth are they supposed to do with ppl who blatantly ignore what theyve already done, acting like exactly what ppl like you ask for hasnt been done several times already?
And Bob I don't know what your problem is. Maybe you didn't get hugged enough as a child I dunnno But yeah, I didnt get far enough to notice any of these exploits, if there were any. So how do I report something I didnt find?
this should also be a bannable offense..the way this guy is spewing his hate. If this was said to a player in game...I would think that too would be enough. Why should it be different here? (refering to the post in red)
Report the post (little ! in a triangle icon in line witht he Reply buttons, but left-aligned) and move on. Don't quote. Some mods will knock you for an infraction quoting waste like that.
Oh god, I enjoy this game a lot, really want it to be successful! I want nothing but good for the developers and for the community, why can't we all just get along! :<
Thanks Neverwinter!!
I am well surprised how professional and good your work on this problems is, in fact this is the openBeta.
But a further question would be .. has this Event/Exploit any influence on the Launch of the original Game?
Sorry to burst your PR bubble. But once an announcement that no wipes is given and that the founders had a 5 day head start for.... open beta?! It was a launch. Stop fooling yourself.
0
ministerofchangeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
As you can clearly see from the above... your mighty solution of 7 hour rollback WONT DO ****. WIPE THE SERVER ALREADY and fix this asap AFTER IP banning the exploiters... ATLEAST DO THAT !
xgondalenxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited May 2013
im for a wipe too, complete all three shards , every user blank account. its not known how much exploited AD will be left if they only rollback 7 hours. and keep ur present ship out that ranger as new class... xD
7 hours rollback wont fix the economy...only a wipe would do that and as far as they say, we are in open beta, so whats the problem - wipe and fix it, thars the only solution to fix the economy...
0
greymasqueMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Wow invasion of the Join Date: May 2013 Users and they all seem to be either defending the game or asking for a wipe. Employees and banned exploiters on new accounts?
You didn't pay attention to the previous post addressing this.
Banned exploiters won't be able to use the same exploit, so why ask for a wipe? It would remove all their work & they'd get nothing out of it.
As for employees... well, my forum name is my @handle. You can find me in CO or NW under it. I activated my forum account to comment & ask questions about the open beta.
The day after April 30 is May 1, which was the day after open beta hit, thus explaining the May accounts.
Comments
They did acknowledge that, and have made statements on it in multiple threads.
They are tracking down each exploiter AND their mules via transaction logs, and are employing every appropriate punishment - and I quote - "including but not limited to perma-banning."
I am well surprised how professional and good your work on this problems is, in fact this is the openBeta.
But a further question would be .. has this Event/Exploit any influence on the Launch of the original Game?
They can easily give your Zen and founder's pack stuff back. Only thing you'll lose is time. They need to do a full wipe to actually solve this problem.
Yes! Totally! The master plan in action! Dr Fu Manchu is up to his old antics again! Forming PWE! Notice that the letters are PWE!?
The real satanic meaning of that is clearly "People We're Evil!"
If u don't see that then you are obviously totally in cahoots with them!
I've played STO for 3 years, as well as Jade Dynasty, as well as Champions, and Torchlight. I definitely would trust them, even if they were somehow forced to do a server wipe. They said they would not, and they have not. The rollback should undo the greatest damage when the few (exploiter) became the many (exploiters).
I do like the idea of a new server that persons have an option to migrate to. No wealth or character migration, just your account unlocks and starting over.
What they absolutely have to do is whatever is necessary to fix the issue.
The issue is a broken economy no one has faith in and so will nit be buying Zen.
The economy is broken because of an exploit, that has apparently been around since day one, creating a massive imbalance.
A 7 hour rollback has lots of people complaining but doesn't fix the issue.
Doing nothing has lots of people complaining and makes the issue worse.
A wipe has lots of people complaining but does fix the issue.
Given that all possible outcomes have lots of people complaining, but only one outcome actually fixes the issue the logical solution is clear.
Wipe.
All The Best
Looking For Reviews For Your Foundry Quest?
Drop By Scribe's Enclave & Meet Up With Volunteer Reviewers.
I agree completely
you sir, should be perma-banned.
Because that entire room full of servers is running 14 games that PWE operates. All of which have millions of changes and transactions per day. Luckily this was only a month long ordeal, and they can probably have these log files.
Likely the character backups are done at certain times, and not every single change made to an account is backed up to be rolled back to. They picked 7 hours because that was the character backup for this week more than likely, and the next backup was a week before that, which is longer than they wanted to roll back (which i'm glad because it would be like I never played the game)
Granted databases are highly efficient these days, and don't take much space to save the data. But you gotta also realize how many people are playing this game, how many have multiple accounts, etc. Its a LOT of data. The backups are likely not even made on the servers themselves because of space restrictions, and are on networked backup machines with huge RAID setups. Which also explains the lengthy downtime as they have to transfer these terabytes upon terabytes of data back to the shards, which is limited by the connection between the backup machines and the servers. Its also why they can't provide an ETA because nobody in the world has figured out a reliable method of reporting the progress of a file transfer on any system ever, and for unexplained reasons these transfers can drop speeds for a bit, changing the estimate since it goes by amount transferred in a given amount of time divided by the amount of time it took to transfer that data. Especially when it comes to transferring multiple files. Network speeds are good when the files are large, but when it comes to lots of small files, the transfer speed drops exponentially because it has to wait for the drives to create the files in the file allocation tables.
If anything, an irony troll.
A grammar troll would of told you how you were wrong in the quoted passage.
-Rajani, The Troll Classification Troll
The time that you spent on this game is your responsibility, not theirs. They didn't tell you to play it.
Perhaps I was a little harsh. However, it was targeted to the people that keep saying how stupid we are for paying money on something we enjoy. That's all. For the hardworking people that are in a bad situation, I apologize for sounding like a jerk. It's not directed at you. I have had to look for jobs in the past 6 years, but luckily I'm in a fairly high position within the oil patch, so jobs are kinda thrown at you all the time. I'm not better than you or anyone else... again, I was addressing the people complaining about how I spend the money I earn.
Yawn... have you not read the many many responses about what is being done with accounts prior to the window who were exploiting? For those, its a small enough number that they can afford the manpower to deal with them on a case by case.
Its been acknowledged several times... Hell go read the GD FAQ that headed this entire thread. What on earth are they supposed to do with ppl who blatantly ignore what theyve already done, acting like exactly what ppl like you ask for hasnt been done several times already?
Report the post (little ! in a triangle icon in line witht he Reply buttons, but left-aligned) and move on. Don't quote. Some mods will knock you for an infraction quoting waste like that.
Sorry to burst your PR bubble. But once an announcement that no wipes is given and that the founders had a 5 day head start for.... open beta?! It was a launch. Stop fooling yourself.
UMMM....NO....thanks, and have a nice day!
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
You didn't pay attention to the previous post addressing this.
Banned exploiters won't be able to use the same exploit, so why ask for a wipe? It would remove all their work & they'd get nothing out of it.
As for employees... well, my forum name is my @handle. You can find me in CO or NW under it. I activated my forum account to comment & ask questions about the open beta.
The day after April 30 is May 1, which was the day after open beta hit, thus explaining the May accounts.
I think your tinfoil hat is on too tight.