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  • airsykoairsyko Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1
    edited May 2013
    pwiratgirl wrote: »
    Just to correct this one ... DDO does not charge $12 for a respec. First off, every character gets a respec (called a "lesser reincarnation" in DDO) for free. This allows you to change everything about the character except your name, your race, and the classes you chose at whatever levels (for instance, if you were a 10 fighter / 2 rogue, you'd still be 10/2 after the respec), but it does allow you to change your alignment, your starting stats, feats, stat increases for levels, spell choices, and skills. Essentially you "re-level" the character, picking what you wish to allocate per level.

    If you wish to purchase a second (or third, or fourth, etc) one it'll cost you about $10 worth of turbine points ($8 will get you 600, $20 will get you 1600, excluding sales and/or bonus TP events, with the basic lesser reincarnation costing 895 turbine points). You can buy more potent reincarnations that will increase your base stat point pool by 4 (32pt build rather than 28), allow you to change your class layout, etc, but they cost more.

    Additionally, enhancements (which are akin to "feats" in neverwinter) can be respecced once every 3 days, for some platinum. On top of that, there's an npc that you can talk to to swap out a feat for some platinum and dragonshards (you find tons of them in-game, and can purchase them off the auction house for platinum). You can do this as often as you can afford it.

    So saying that DDO "charges $12 for a respec" is misleading at best, flat out wrong at worst.

    You have the option to pay if you want. http://ddowiki.com/page/Respec
  • lyokiralyokira Member Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    druga1757 wrote: »
    Respecs are the norm for any rpg, especially a NEW one where everyone is learning the game and class for the first time. There's limited character slots, so you can't try out multiple builds of the same class - you either have to delete and re-roll, or respec. All the Paragon's aren't out yet, right? So, what, delete your level 60 so you can try the same class again when the new Paragon is released? Respecs are required, I think it should be an ingame function, with the OPTION to pay for it if you don't want to jump through ingame hoops to do it.

    Flat out wrong. MOST RPGs don's allow respecs. (I don't count getting a Wish in D&D). The few exceptions are some dungeon crawls, and MMOs.
  • airsykoairsyko Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1
    edited May 2013
    valvexen wrote: »
    There scam is they try to front load as much money as they can out of you in the beginning, like the founders $200 pack, and all the other **** they come up with, games like wow might cost you $180 a year, but thats a month by month basis of $15 bucks, you might quit after only 4 months and that would of cost you $60, now PWE wants you to spend as much as you can in the beginning on stuff like bags, respecs, basic stuff.

    You could easyily spend hundreds of dollars the first month in this game, and then if you decide the game sucks, or there is just to many exploits and other problems, you are out a lot of money upfront, in a short amount of time, and the direction this game seems to be going, i think there is gonna be a lot more pissed off people.

    But what if you quit after 4 months and then a new patch or some new friends want you to play again? You have to shell out another $15 just to log into your account. P2P is just not ideal anymore.
  • pwiratgirlpwiratgirl Member Posts: 118 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    airsyko wrote: »
    You have the option to pay if you want. http://ddowiki.com/page/Respec

    It seems as though you only read the first sentence of my post. I explained that. Every character gets a FREE respec to start with, however. If you want to purchase ADDITIONAL respecs, you can.
  • bridgemongerbridgemonger Member Posts: 194 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    What I don't get is why they charge for respecs when they have been giving free levels, gear, ad, and glory to the AFKPVPers like mad for over a week. I mean ... really. This game is being trashed with farm bots and exploits.
    60cw 51tr 16dc 5gf
  • pwiratgirlpwiratgirl Member Posts: 118 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    lyokira wrote: »
    Flat out wrong. MOST RPGs don's allow respecs. (I don't count getting a Wish in D&D). The few exceptions are some dungeon crawls, and MMOs.

    I'm fairly certain he meant MMO, not RPG. Respecs ARE a staple in just about every MMO.
  • lyokiralyokira Member Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    mal3fact0r wrote: »
    Why should you or I care if it earns them more money? They aren't my friends, I owe them nothing. It's their job to create something that we find enjoyable and price it so that we feel its reasonable value.

    The success of valves hats do count, success is success.

    And before some genius pipes in with a brilliant statement like "get a job" or "you just want everything free" I have one thanks, and can afford anything I want in the store many times over, I just don't find the prices reasonable. Even if I were a billionaire I wouldn't, overpriced is overpriced. If they were more reasonable then I would gladly spend money and not think twice about it.
    You don't need to care. The only thing that matters is that THEY care, hence, they price and sell whatever which would make them the most money.
  • suavaialofasuavaialofa Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    pwiratgirl wrote: »
    Just to correct this one ... DDO does not charge $12 for a respec. First off, every character gets a respec (called a "lesser reincarnation" in DDO) for free. This allows you to change everything about the character except your name, your race, and the classes you chose at whatever levels (for instance, if you were a 10 fighter / 2 rogue, you'd still be 10/2 after the respec), but it does allow you to change your alignment, your starting stats, feats, stat increases for levels, spell choices, and skills. Essentially you "re-level" the character, picking what you wish to allocate per level.

    If you wish to purchase a second (or third, or fourth, etc) one it'll cost you about $10 worth of turbine points ($8 will get you 600, $20 will get you 1600, excluding sales and/or bonus TP events, with the basic lesser reincarnation costing 895 turbine points). You can buy more potent reincarnations that will increase your base stat point pool by 4 (32pt build rather than 28), allow you to change your class layout, etc, but they cost more.

    Additionally, enhancements (which are akin to "feats" in neverwinter) can be respecced once every 3 days, for some platinum -- typically a pittance compared to what the average character has. Compare that to respeccing feats in neverwinter, which can cost tens of thousands of astral diamonds, even for a character in the 30's. On top of that, there's an npc that you can talk to to swap out a feat for some platinum and dragonshards (you find tons of them in-game, and can purchase them off the auction house for platinum). You can do this as often as you can afford it.

    So saying that DDO "charges $12 for a respec" is misleading at best, flat out wrong at worst.

    What most people find egregious is that Cryptic doesn't give people "once per character" free respec, like many games do. Something that allows a new player to realize that they've goofed up their character a bit, and rebuild it once they know more about the game. In neverwinter, if you make a mistake, you're out $6 if you want to fix it.

    And what happens when they tweak/nerf/buff powers? Will they offer free respecs to allow people to adjust their builds based on the new setup? When they add more paragon paths, will they give people free respecs to allow them to change if they want to?

    No one knows yet, but there's a lurking suspicion that they won't, and that idea rankles a lot of people too.

    **** you beat me to it..... and yeah I got like 6 lesser hearts siting in the bank that I won off their daily lottery, and you can find them in loot though its super rare.

    The feats are the more expensive things to change in D&D online the enhancements are easy and cheap, You can always just get your toon to 20 get 20 epic tokens and tr into a more planned out build or just park it and roll up another one.
  • lyokiralyokira Member Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    pwiratgirl wrote: »
    I'm fairly certain he meant MMO, not RPG. Respecs ARE a staple in just about every MMO.

    Regards to this, not really. However, most of the MMOs which don't, have unlimited progression.
  • pwiratgirlpwiratgirl Member Posts: 118 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    airsyko wrote: »
    But what if you quit after 4 months and then a new patch or some new friends want you to play again? You have to shell out another $15 just to log into your account. P2P is just not ideal anymore.

    And what happens if your friends decide to pick up this game after a few months? Unless you've kept a character at low level to play with them, you'll have to shell out money to open up more character slots in order to play with them. The thing about subscription games is that for that $15/month, you generally get access to absolutely everything the game has to offer, while cash shop games put a number of things locked away behind the wall of "pay for it in the cash shop".

    For instance, want some extra bag space in a subscription mmo? Buy some bags off the auction house, or craft some. In neverwinter? Cash shop. Want a high-speed mount for your new character (or for your buddies)? Buy one with in-game currency. Here? Buy it off the cash shop. Etc.
  • mal3fact0rmal3fact0r Member Posts: 83
    edited May 2013
    lyokira wrote: »
    You don't need to care. The only thing that matters is that THEY care, hence, they price and sell whatever which would make them the most money.

    Time will tell how that works out, but I certainly won't be contributing to their coffers :)
  • pwiratgirlpwiratgirl Member Posts: 118 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    lyokira wrote: »
    Regards to this, not really. However, most of the MMOs which don't, have unlimited progression.

    I've yet to run into an MMO that didn't offer some form of respec. And all the subscription-based ones that I've played (and I've played a lot) offer at least one for free. Quite a few offered multiple respecs (or even unlimited) for in-game currency.
  • paragon33paragon33 Member Posts: 134 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    The only flaw here is...there is no way to test.
    What most people ignore in their Q on the topic is YOU CAN respec in game...
    You just cant respec powers..
    If you get your powers right; or when you do
    (you practically get them all anyway minus a few you let go of... Some you can take 1 in just to have the proc or gimmick of it.)
    You never ever have to use the CS for respect; the only thing that matters is paragon n feats... ALL avlb in game lol

    Unless u want to respect stats also... But serous its not anywhere near as bad as it seems...

    I had to do it once and never will have to again because I got what I need. The actual changing of how my character performs or functions is in the feats and paragon trees...

    Now with that said...
    1. If they change or add things they would need to give free respec on powers and feats.
    2. Everyone should get a free in game respec of at least 1... Introduced at reaching a certain lvl or other landmark... Paragon range if not 60.
    The reason for this is mistakes will certainly be made; and by not even giving one respec you force people into the store; and open yourself to a debate on the intent behind that. Offering a service via CS to respec is fair and their call; but setting it up so that all players are forced to at least once...thats grey.
    3. In the old days you were not allowed to even do any of this; because it harmed re playability... (but I don't used that card; those days are gone..)

    EDIT:
    After what I said, Ive come to the conclusion the best move (1 free respec in game or not) would be to split the token into 2 separate purchases; $3 for powers, $3 for Stats... This would be best and I think lend to less hesitation in paying and actually leading to a potential increase in people getting them.
  • airsykoairsyko Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1
    edited May 2013
    **** you beat me to it..... and yeah I got like 6 lesser hearts siting in the bank that I won off their daily lottery, and you can find them in loot though its super rare.

    The feats are the more expensive things to change in D&D online the enhancements are easy and cheap, You can always just get your toon to 20 get 20 epic tokens and tr into a more planned out build or just park it and roll up another one.

    This is a workaround though, I was just listing the direct price. I made 200k AD just selling my profession mats I got while leveling. 180k AD = 500 zen currently. I could respec right now if I wanted to. But that's neither here nor there, I was just referring to the flat cash shop price everyone seems to be complaining about, and with DDO that price is $12.
  • pwiratgirlpwiratgirl Member Posts: 118 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    airsyko wrote: »
    This is a workaround though, I was just listing the direct price. I made 200k AD just selling my profession mats I got while leveling. 180k AD = 500 zen currently. I could respec right now if I wanted to. But that's neither here nor there, I was just referring to the flat cash shop price everyone seems to be complaining about, and with DDO that price is $12.

    For a lot of people, it's not the $6 in and of itself. It's the fact that characters aren't granted a one-time respec for free, like most games have. That free respec offers players a "buffer" to play with, to test out powers, test out skills, and see what they like and how things work for them. If they come to the conclusion that something else would work a lot better, they can burn their free respec and change over.

    Also, it's not $12 for a respec in DDO. Again, they offer every character one for free, and buying another one is about $10-11 worth of turbine points. The price actually drops the more TP you buy at once, as you get a larger "bonus pool" the more you spend. If one were to spend $200 on TP, it would cost about $8 worth for a respec.
  • druga1757druga1757 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 76
    edited May 2013
    lyokira wrote: »
    Flat out wrong. MOST RPGs don's allow respecs. (I don't count getting a Wish in D&D). The few exceptions are some dungeon crawls, and MMOs.
    LOL, of course respecs are the norm, even THIS game, Neverwinter, allows unlimited respecs! Flat out right!
  • lyokiralyokira Member Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Then provide examples of non-MMO, non-dungeon crawlers which allows respec.
  • druga1757druga1757 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 76
    edited May 2013
    pwiratgirl wrote: »
    I'm fairly certain he meant MMO, not RPG. Respecs ARE a staple in just about every MMO.
    You know what comes after mmo before it was shortened to just mmo? It's mmorpg. Go figure.
  • airsykoairsyko Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1
    edited May 2013
    pwiratgirl wrote: »
    For a lot of people, it's not the $6 in and of itself. It's the fact that characters aren't granted a one-time respec for free, like most games have. That free respec offers players a "buffer" to play with, to test out powers, test out skills, and see what they like and how things work for them. If they come to the conclusion that something else would work a lot better, they can burn their free respec and change over.

    Neverwinter skill trees right now are far too linear for free resets. There is very little for you to screw up the first time around so If they were going to give a free one they might as well not have them in the cash shop at all. I'm guessing we'll get free ones the first time we get new paragons and classes actually have more options to consider.
  • pwiratgirlpwiratgirl Member Posts: 118 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    druga1757 wrote: »
    You know what comes after mmo before it was shortened to just mmo? It's mmorpg. Go figure.

    Oh, I know. However, the person who was replying to you seized upon "rpg" to mean a table-top game or single-player game like NWN or Baldur's Gate. See their post right above yours?
  • knoteskadknoteskad Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Who cares if our Government screws us over.

    They're still not as bad as North Korea.
  • lyokiralyokira Member Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    druga1757 wrote: »
    You know what comes after mmo before it was shortened to just mmo? It's mmorpg. Go figure.

    Which is an issue, because there's plenty of MMOs which are not RPGs. It should never have been shortened, and I WILL assume any mention of MMO to not only mean RPG, simply because it shouldn't, and by strict definition, isn't.

    Likewise, there're plenty of RPGs that are not MMOs, so I WILL assume any mention of RPG to not only mean MMO, simply because it shouldn't, and by strict definition, isn't.
  • pwiratgirlpwiratgirl Member Posts: 118 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    lyokira wrote: »
    Which is an issue, because there's plenty of MMOs which are not RPGs. It should never have been shortened, and I WILL assume any mention of MMO to not only mean RPG, simply because it shouldn't, and by strict definition, isn't.

    Context is important. We're on an MMORPG forum, talking about MMORPGs. If you shorten it to MMO in this context, it means the same thing. To be honest, you're nitpicking.
  • isopointisopoint Member Posts: 193 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Does PSO even have pvp?
  • lyokiralyokira Member Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    pwiratgirl wrote: »
    Context is important. We're on an MMORPG forum, talking about MMORPGs. If you shorten it to MMO in this context, it means the same thing. To be honest, you're nitpicking.

    It is however shortened to RPG, not MMO. And in a game which derived from traditional RPGs, it's important to make a distinction.

    EDIT: Also, I enjoy nitpicking, in cases where I feel nitpicking is deserved, So there.
  • druga1757druga1757 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 76
    edited May 2013
    lyokira wrote: »
    Then provide examples of non-MMO, non-dungeon crawlers which allows respec.
    MMO's are rpg's. Dungeon crawlers are rpg's. When you have to add all these conditions to your argument just to make your case, you've already lost.

    Last I checked, Skyrim has respecs. Witcher 2 had an option to resepc. Kingdoms of Amalur you could respec. Non-MMO, non-dungeon crawler.
  • pwiratgirlpwiratgirl Member Posts: 118 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    lyokira wrote: »
    It is however shortened to RPG, not MMO. And in a game which derived from traditional RPGs, it's important to make a distinction.

    EDIT: Also, I enjoy nitpicking, in cases where I feel nitpicking is deserved, So there.

    Actually I've seen it shortened to "MMO" almost everywhere. Calling something an "RPG" heavily implies a single-player game (Skyrim for instance).

    So there back atcha.
  • druga1757druga1757 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 76
    edited May 2013
    lyokira wrote: »
    Which is an issue, because there's plenty of MMOs which are not RPGs. It should never have been shortened, and I WILL assume any mention of MMO to not only mean RPG, simply because it shouldn't, and by strict definition, isn't.

    Likewise, there're plenty of RPGs that are not MMOs, so I WILL assume any mention of RPG to not only mean MMO, simply because it shouldn't, and by strict definition, isn't.
    Well, you've got me there, I've NEVER played an MMO that wasn't an RPG, let along PLENTY of MMO's. Pray tell, since you are fond of the "provide examples of", provide examples of MMO's that are not RPG's?
  • lyokiralyokira Member Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    druga1757 wrote: »
    MMO's are rpg's. Dungeon crawlers are rpg's. When you have to add all these conditions to your argument just to make your case, you've already lost.

    Last I checked, Skyrim has respecs. Witcher 2 had an option to resepc. Kingdoms of Amalur you could respec. Non-MMO, non-dungeon crawler.
    Context, as mentioned earlier.
    lyokira wrote: »
    Flat out wrong. MOST RPGs don's allow respecs. (I don't count getting a Wish in D&D). The few exceptions are some dungeon crawls, and MMOs.
    druga1757 wrote: »
    LOL, of course respecs are the norm, even THIS game, Neverwinter, allows unlimited respecs! Flat out right!
    lyokira wrote: »
    Then provide examples of non-MMO, non-dungeon crawlers which allows respec.

    Admittedly I haven't played those, so eh. Maybe I'm just too used to the D&D mentality.
  • lyokiralyokira Member Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    druga1757 wrote: »
    Well, you've got me there, I've NEVER played an MMO that wasn't an RPG, let along PLENTY of MMO's. Pray tell, since you are fond of the "provide examples of", provide examples of MMO's that are not RPG's?
    Planetside: FPS
    Second Life: Social
    SD Gundam Capsule Fighter: TPS
    Fifa Online: Sports
    Audition: Dancing
    Gunbound: Artillery-type strategy
    World of Tanks: Tanks
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