Flooding the market with cheap dungeon epic pretty much destroys the game. Why do I bother playing end game when I can buy the current best loot in the game from the AH for 45 AD ?
How ever did you play before you could buy gear in the AH? I know I looked today, and there were no upgrades for me in the AH. So I have to get them the old fashioned way. I realize this may be hard to believe, but you aren't forced to buy it from the AH. Unlike some other MMOs that I've played, the dungeons are instanced. This means that even if <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> exploiter is busy exploiting, you can still, I don't know, maybe run the dungeons yourself and try to get the gear the old fashioned way. I know that's what I'll end up doing.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
It destroys the experience. The purpose of the game is to work toward something you've achieved. If you get something for nothing ... it pretty much defeats the purpose of the game.
So dont buy the gear on the AH, wow thats hard isnt it?
Leveling up and gearing up are really fast and easy in this game. New players aren't going to have any more trouble than the legit players who started weeks or months earlier in the same boat.
Wiping all the servers, when they have already said there would be no more wipes hurts legit players more than anyone else, and would cause quite a few people to quit the game. I honestly do not see how people don't realize that.
Well re-leveling won't be so much of a problem if its so fast then.
Without a wipe or new shard we will still have a ruined economy with all the exploited AD inflating the zen prices. No thanks, I will not bother playing a game where economy is ruined from the start, and will make sure to tell everyone to not bother with this as the economy is already broken and game full of exploiters. I don't know about how many people are already playing the game, but I don't think it can be nearly as much as they expect after the official live release date, and they need to think about all the new players comming then. I won't be able to recomend this game to anyone in its current state. Also I don't think anyone can really complain about stuff they did during beta being wiped, the key word there is beta.
Anyway I am not debating it anymore or willing to change my opinion, just making my opinions know to devs, take it or leave it.
Wipe all shards or make a new one. I don't want to play with these beta test exploits already having impacted the economy and playerbase.
Imagine this, you work hard killing off to the end boss and you defeat him with a sliver of HP left.. you felt exultation or your achievement because it's a tough boss... you get treasures .. wow.. an epic it drops.... then later you find out that your epic loot is worth 45 AD in the open market ..because exploiters has flooded the AH with hundreds like it. There goes the exultation, there goes the value of your "work". The thrill of receiving a "rare" treasure is gone.... you feel just emptiness because after all the deaths .. you got something that has no value. I don't expect you to understand this.
Imagine this, you work hard killing off to the end boss and you defeat him with a sliver of HP left.. you felt exultation or your achievement because it's a tough boss... you get treasures .. wow.. an epic it drops.... then later you find out that your epic loot is worth 45 AD in the open market ..because exploiters has flooded the AH with hundreds like it. There goes the exultation, there goes the value of your "work". The thrill of receiving a "rare" treasure is gone.... you feel just emptiness because after all the deaths .. you got something that has no value. I don't expect you to understand this.
So wait, You just want epics to sell on the AH or you are letting the AH determine how much enjoyment you get from getting epics.
Imagine this, you work hard killing off to the end boss and you defeat him with a sliver of HP left.. you felt exultation or your achievement because it's a tough boss... you get treasures .. wow.. an epic it drops.... then later you find out that your epic loot is worth 45 AD in the open market ..because exploiters has flooded the AH with hundreds like it. There goes the exultation, there goes the value of your "work". The thrill of receiving a "rare" treasure is gone.... you feel just emptiness because after all the deaths .. you got something that has no value. I don't expect you to understand this.
Well, since I believe that I shouldn't be rolling on gear that I can't use, I guess I'll just have to be a sad panda while I equip the gear and use it. It will be hard, but I'm sure I can find a way to console myself on getting my epic drop.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
Imagine this, you work hard killing off to the end boss and you defeat him with a sliver of HP left.. you felt exultation or your achievement because it's a tough boss... you get treasures .. wow.. an epic it drops.... then later you find out that your epic loot is worth 45 AD in the open market ..because exploiters has flooded the AH with hundreds like it. There goes the exultation, there goes the value of your "work". The thrill of receiving a "rare" treasure is gone.... you feel just emptiness because after all the deaths .. you got something that has no value. I don't expect you to understand this.
Sounds like you should have passed it to a party member that needed it rather than hitting need if you were just going to sell it. People needing on things to sell is a bigger problem than the exploits in leaving a bad taste in my mouth.
Sounds to me that you two actually encourage people to cheat and cheapen the game. Whatever...
0
acwhistlerMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 23Arc User
edited May 2013
Simple solution... for anyone that wants a good long term economy/game, a new shard, reroll... have to wipe toons on these shards, and you get any of your founder stuff on the new server.
For anyone that loves a bad economy, broke game, already exploited, hacked, etc... you can stay here with your kind.
Sounds to me that you two actually encourage people to cheat and cheapen the game. Whatever...
Yes, by not rolling on gear that I can't use, I cheapen the experience for everyone in my group. I'm sure they'd rather I rolled need on everything that drops. Or, maybe I just play the game to get away from the drama that is day to day life, and I'm not going to be stressed out because <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> exploited to get the gear to sell? It's not like I'll be a frequent flyer on the AH, so it's not going to affect me one way or the other. However, being told, by wiping my characters, that I'm every bit as guilty of exploiting as the exploiters is a sure fire way to get me to look for another game to play, where they'll actually do something about the exploiters, instead of just starting over every so often to "fix" it.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
No im all for banning the exploiters and cheaters,but I dont let it cheapen my gameplay experience. Your gameplay experience is determined by you.
That may be true in a single player game but not an mmo. Even if you never see or talk to an exploiter they are still impacting your game experience by ruining the economy. Even if you have all the stuff you need and a bad economy doesn't really affect you directly, it is affecting other people in your guild and friends when they try to sell some of their loot and can't make any money, or when trying to buy zen but the price inflates too high. Then when they all quit out of fustration you too will be affected.
I still dont understand how other peoples gameplay effects mine. If people cant sell their loot fine too bad for them. And if im playing with people who will only buy Zen with Diamonds then I wont continue playing with them. And honestly I dont play with people who let their gameplay experience be determined by an economy.
That may be true in a single player game but not an mmo. Even if you never see or talk to an exploiter they are still impacting your game experience by ruining the economy. Even if you have all the stuff you need and a bad economy doesn't really affect you directly, it is affecting other people in your guild and friends when they try to sell some of their loot and can't make any money, or when trying to buy zen but the price inflates too high. Then when they all quit out of fustration you too will be affected.
I have the solution for that, and it's already come up, although it was with gold, not AD/Zen; I ran in a dungeon in a duo, and passed on everything we got as drops except the end loot that I needed, and actually needed it. That's what guilds are for, helping eachother out. We did outlevel the dungeon a bit, we ran Cloaktower at 23ish, but he needed gold for a perm mount, and I did what I could to help him get it. If he had indicated that he needed more, I would have given him some of what I had. I've been playing MMOs the exact same way for 10 years or so, no matter how bad the economy was.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
Exploiters need to handled on case by case basis. I do not exploit and really would not care to see my toon wiped even though I am only 49.
As for the cheap epic gear, I could agree with a total wipe of all epic gear and AD across the board as long as I get refunded what I spent on the AH. This would reset the game economy once the exploiters are banned or punished. The people with no lives that farm dungeons for hours and hours could then begin farming epics and set their own prices to make the economy the way they want and make the rest of us play the way they see fit.
That about sum everything up? Handle the exploiters, ban or punish, reset the economy to let the 8 hour a day dungeon grinders set the tone for the economy?
Just want to be clear on this OP.
There is no worse feeling in the world than the moment during an argument you realize you are wrong.
0
acwhistlerMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 23Arc User
I still dont understand how other peoples gameplay effects mine. If people cant sell their loot fine too bad for them. And if im playing with people who will only buy Zen with Diamonds then I wont continue playing with them. And honestly I dont play with people who let their gameplay experience be determined by an economy.
I keep seeing this guy on ever post on the forum posting this same thing. This is an MMO, not a single player game. Others effect the entire game experience... welcome to MMO's.
I keep seeing this guy on ever post on the forum posting this same thing. This is an MMO, not a single player game. Others effect the entire game experience... welcome to MMO's.
No they dont. Its amazing to see this kind of thought is out there though. Give me solid proof that what you are doing in the game is effecting me. Keep in note I do not touch the AH and Im not in a guild.
After reading all the responses from people opposed to a character wipe it just boils down to them quitting instead of re-leveling since almost all of the opponents claim they are casual/not capped. I say if you are too lazy to re-level in this game where even at a luxuriously casual pace reaching mid level is a four or five day affair then you don't really care about this game. If your personal achievements thus far in your opinion outweigh the long term stability and fun of the game's highest level of content you are selfish or stubborn not sure which.
Call it quits if you want but a server restart is the best thing for this game and people that actually like it and have invested real effort into the game know it.
I keep seeing this guy on ever post on the forum posting this same thing. This is an MMO, not a single player game. Others effect the entire game experience... welcome to MMO's.
Really, I've seen this a lot in this thread, and replied to it the same way every time: It's not affecting my gameplay in the slightest. I don't have an exploiter running me through dungeons, I've only done one dungeon since I started, and I'm going to outlevel the ones I have to do, if I haven't already. So no, it's not affecting me. As I said earlier, I went and looked this morning, and there was no gear in the AH that upgraded even my greens.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
I still dont understand how other peoples gameplay effects mine. If people cant sell their loot fine too bad for them. And if im playing with people who will only buy Zen with Diamonds then I wont continue playing with them. And honestly I dont play with people who let their gameplay experience be determined by an economy.
Ok so you would discriminate against people who aren't doing so well financially through no fault of their own like layoffs, and might not have much choice but to try to get some zen with diamonds, sounds pretty elitest. I'm glad most people aren't like that, I don't mind people that do that in my guilds as long as they are easy to get along with.
Guess you won't be playing with anyone then, because like it or not your gameplay experience is affected by the economy. You might have what you need now, but their will be a time when you or or friends or guildies need better gear from the AH, and can't buy it because all their loot can't sell. You can't hide from an economy forever in an mmo or you are just being delusional.
Ok so you would discriminate against people who aren't doing so well financially through no fault of their own like layoffs, and might not have much choice but to try to get some zen with diamonds, sounds pretty elitest. I'm glad most people aren't like that, I don't mind people that do that in my guilds as long as they are easy to get along with.
Guess you won't be playing with anyone then, because like it or not your gameplay experience is affected by the economy. You might have what you need now, but their will be a time when you or or friends or guildies need better gear from the AH, and can't buy it because all their loot can't sell. You can't hide from an economy forever in an mmo or you are just being delusional.
Because none of that gear that they can't buy ever drops anywhere? They can't do a guild run to try to get it to drop so they don't have to buy it? What's the use of being in that guild then? I know, for myself, I will run an instance I don't need if a guidy needs to run it for either xp, money or drops. Of course, my guilds are usually people that I'm at the very least friendly with, not much point in being in a guild that isn't.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
Because none of that gear that they can't buy ever drops anywhere? They can't do a guild run to try to get it to drop so they don't have to buy it? What's the use of being in that guild then? I know, for myself, I will run an instance I don't need if a guidy needs to run it for either xp, money or drops. Of course, my guilds are usually people that I'm at the very least friendly with, not much point in being in a guild that isn't.
So the AH is pointless and should just be removed then? Because it will be pretty useless with all this exploited gear on their ruining the economy. Why should people play a game without a functioning economy when we can go elsewhere. Its a quality of life issue, people don't want to be stuck with gear they don't need when it could be sold to avoid some of the grind.
So the AH is pointless and should just be removed then? Because it will be pretty useless with all this exploited gear on their ruining the economy. Why should people play a game without a functioning economy when we can go elsewhere. Its a quality of life issue, people don't want to be stuck with gear they don't need when it could be sold to avoid some of the grind.
Again, my quality of life isn't adversely affected by prices in the AH. I tend to undercut the average sale price anyway, sometimes significantly, on the two items I've listed since I started. I won't be ninja looting parties in epic dungeons, so that's not an issue, and greens get vendored. So no, it's not going to bother me how much I can't get on the AH for gear I'm not trying to sell, because if a piece of epic gear were to drop tonight, and I already had it, I'd greed or pass on it. That's how I roll, or don't roll.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
So the AH is pointless and should just be removed then? Because it will be pretty useless with all this exploited gear on their ruining the economy. Why should people play a game without a functioning economy when we can go elsewhere. Its a quality of life issue, people don't want to be stuck with gear they don't need when it could be sold to avoid some of the grind.
I don't see why you can't sell gear. I've been selling all my looted greens and blues with no issue without using the AH.
No they dont. Its amazing to see this kind of thought is out there though. Give me solid proof that what you are doing in the game is effecting me. Keep in note I do not touch the AH and Im not in a guild.
So you are part of the very very small minority playing this like a single player game. Good for you, feel free to keep on playing with your eyes shut. The rest of us prefer to play an MMO.
So you are part of the very very small minority playing this like a single player game. Good for you, feel free to keep on playing with your eyes shut. The rest of us prefer to play an MMO.
I do still group and PVP, How are those parts in a Single player?
Again, my quality of life isn't adversely affected by prices in the AH. I tend to undercut the average sale price anyway, sometimes significantly, on the two items I've listed since I started. I won't be ninja looting parties in epic dungeons, so that's not an issue, and greens get vendored. So no, it's not going to bother me how much I can't get on the AH for gear I'm not trying to sell, because if a piece of epic gear were to drop tonight, and I already had it, I'd greed or pass on it. That's how I roll, or don't roll.
The fact that I am still having to debate with people about wanting a functioning AH in an MMO is beyond ridiculous. We should be able to take something like that for granted.
Most people besides you like to sell all their loot they earn for a decent profit in any mmo. I don't know about how endgame is here yet, but on other Cryptic games like STO with the same loot system, everyone needs everything unless their inventory is full or its an item that doesn't vendor or sell for exchange very much. Since everyone needs everything, you have missed out on lots of stuff you need so you also need to need everything just to make enough money to buy loot you missed out on. Even in most fleets im in work like that so nobody has to argue over who gets what, let the RNG decide that. I rather everyone do it that way in this game also, I wish their wasn't a need window, just everyone rolls on every item automatically, if you don't want it give it away or sell it later. Much faster too since you don't need to analyze each drop immediatley, just roll on it and worry about what it is afterwards.
Anyway if you do play like this as I'm sure many do, we need a working economy.
Comments
How ever did you play before you could buy gear in the AH? I know I looked today, and there were no upgrades for me in the AH. So I have to get them the old fashioned way. I realize this may be hard to believe, but you aren't forced to buy it from the AH. Unlike some other MMOs that I've played, the dungeons are instanced. This means that even if <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> exploiter is busy exploiting, you can still, I don't know, maybe run the dungeons yourself and try to get the gear the old fashioned way. I know that's what I'll end up doing.
So dont buy the gear on the AH, wow thats hard isnt it?
Well re-leveling won't be so much of a problem if its so fast then.
Without a wipe or new shard we will still have a ruined economy with all the exploited AD inflating the zen prices. No thanks, I will not bother playing a game where economy is ruined from the start, and will make sure to tell everyone to not bother with this as the economy is already broken and game full of exploiters. I don't know about how many people are already playing the game, but I don't think it can be nearly as much as they expect after the official live release date, and they need to think about all the new players comming then. I won't be able to recomend this game to anyone in its current state. Also I don't think anyone can really complain about stuff they did during beta being wiped, the key word there is beta.
Anyway I am not debating it anymore or willing to change my opinion, just making my opinions know to devs, take it or leave it.
Wipe all shards or make a new one. I don't want to play with these beta test exploits already having impacted the economy and playerbase.
So wait, You just want epics to sell on the AH or you are letting the AH determine how much enjoyment you get from getting epics.
Well, since I believe that I shouldn't be rolling on gear that I can't use, I guess I'll just have to be a sad panda while I equip the gear and use it. It will be hard, but I'm sure I can find a way to console myself on getting my epic drop.
Sounds like you should have passed it to a party member that needed it rather than hitting need if you were just going to sell it. People needing on things to sell is a bigger problem than the exploits in leaving a bad taste in my mouth.
For anyone that loves a bad economy, broke game, already exploited, hacked, etc... you can stay here with your kind.
No im all for banning the exploiters and cheaters,but I dont let it cheapen my gameplay experience. Your gameplay experience is determined by you.
Dude your argument was for ninja looting which imho is a form of griefing your party.
Yes, by not rolling on gear that I can't use, I cheapen the experience for everyone in my group. I'm sure they'd rather I rolled need on everything that drops. Or, maybe I just play the game to get away from the drama that is day to day life, and I'm not going to be stressed out because <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> exploited to get the gear to sell? It's not like I'll be a frequent flyer on the AH, so it's not going to affect me one way or the other. However, being told, by wiping my characters, that I'm every bit as guilty of exploiting as the exploiters is a sure fire way to get me to look for another game to play, where they'll actually do something about the exploiters, instead of just starting over every so often to "fix" it.
That may be true in a single player game but not an mmo. Even if you never see or talk to an exploiter they are still impacting your game experience by ruining the economy. Even if you have all the stuff you need and a bad economy doesn't really affect you directly, it is affecting other people in your guild and friends when they try to sell some of their loot and can't make any money, or when trying to buy zen but the price inflates too high. Then when they all quit out of fustration you too will be affected.
I have the solution for that, and it's already come up, although it was with gold, not AD/Zen; I ran in a dungeon in a duo, and passed on everything we got as drops except the end loot that I needed, and actually needed it. That's what guilds are for, helping eachother out. We did outlevel the dungeon a bit, we ran Cloaktower at 23ish, but he needed gold for a perm mount, and I did what I could to help him get it. If he had indicated that he needed more, I would have given him some of what I had. I've been playing MMOs the exact same way for 10 years or so, no matter how bad the economy was.
As for the cheap epic gear, I could agree with a total wipe of all epic gear and AD across the board as long as I get refunded what I spent on the AH. This would reset the game economy once the exploiters are banned or punished. The people with no lives that farm dungeons for hours and hours could then begin farming epics and set their own prices to make the economy the way they want and make the rest of us play the way they see fit.
That about sum everything up? Handle the exploiters, ban or punish, reset the economy to let the 8 hour a day dungeon grinders set the tone for the economy?
Just want to be clear on this OP.
I keep seeing this guy on ever post on the forum posting this same thing. This is an MMO, not a single player game. Others effect the entire game experience... welcome to MMO's.
No they dont. Its amazing to see this kind of thought is out there though. Give me solid proof that what you are doing in the game is effecting me. Keep in note I do not touch the AH and Im not in a guild.
Call it quits if you want but a server restart is the best thing for this game and people that actually like it and have invested real effort into the game know it.
Really, I've seen this a lot in this thread, and replied to it the same way every time: It's not affecting my gameplay in the slightest. I don't have an exploiter running me through dungeons, I've only done one dungeon since I started, and I'm going to outlevel the ones I have to do, if I haven't already. So no, it's not affecting me. As I said earlier, I went and looked this morning, and there was no gear in the AH that upgraded even my greens.
Ok so you would discriminate against people who aren't doing so well financially through no fault of their own like layoffs, and might not have much choice but to try to get some zen with diamonds, sounds pretty elitest. I'm glad most people aren't like that, I don't mind people that do that in my guilds as long as they are easy to get along with.
Guess you won't be playing with anyone then, because like it or not your gameplay experience is affected by the economy. You might have what you need now, but their will be a time when you or or friends or guildies need better gear from the AH, and can't buy it because all their loot can't sell. You can't hide from an economy forever in an mmo or you are just being delusional.
Because none of that gear that they can't buy ever drops anywhere? They can't do a guild run to try to get it to drop so they don't have to buy it? What's the use of being in that guild then? I know, for myself, I will run an instance I don't need if a guidy needs to run it for either xp, money or drops. Of course, my guilds are usually people that I'm at the very least friendly with, not much point in being in a guild that isn't.
So the AH is pointless and should just be removed then? Because it will be pretty useless with all this exploited gear on their ruining the economy. Why should people play a game without a functioning economy when we can go elsewhere. Its a quality of life issue, people don't want to be stuck with gear they don't need when it could be sold to avoid some of the grind.
Again, my quality of life isn't adversely affected by prices in the AH. I tend to undercut the average sale price anyway, sometimes significantly, on the two items I've listed since I started. I won't be ninja looting parties in epic dungeons, so that's not an issue, and greens get vendored. So no, it's not going to bother me how much I can't get on the AH for gear I'm not trying to sell, because if a piece of epic gear were to drop tonight, and I already had it, I'd greed or pass on it. That's how I roll, or don't roll.
I don't see why you can't sell gear. I've been selling all my looted greens and blues with no issue without using the AH.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Are you getting Astral Diamonds for all that excess gear?
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
So you are part of the very very small minority playing this like a single player game. Good for you, feel free to keep on playing with your eyes shut. The rest of us prefer to play an MMO.
I do still group and PVP, How are those parts in a Single player?
The fact that I am still having to debate with people about wanting a functioning AH in an MMO is beyond ridiculous. We should be able to take something like that for granted.
Most people besides you like to sell all their loot they earn for a decent profit in any mmo. I don't know about how endgame is here yet, but on other Cryptic games like STO with the same loot system, everyone needs everything unless their inventory is full or its an item that doesn't vendor or sell for exchange very much. Since everyone needs everything, you have missed out on lots of stuff you need so you also need to need everything just to make enough money to buy loot you missed out on. Even in most fleets im in work like that so nobody has to argue over who gets what, let the RNG decide that. I rather everyone do it that way in this game also, I wish their wasn't a need window, just everyone rolls on every item automatically, if you don't want it give it away or sell it later. Much faster too since you don't need to analyze each drop immediatley, just roll on it and worry about what it is afterwards.
Anyway if you do play like this as I'm sure many do, we need a working economy.