I really enjoy the game, but the current zen prices in the shop are just ridiculous. The pricing on some items is just plain illogical, look at Greater Health Stones for example.
1 Greater Health Stone = 1500 zen
1 pack with loads of stuff including 1 Greater Health Stone = 1500 zen
This isn't even a sales tactic, it's just plain stupid. It makes me think they had a pre-launch office party at PWI, realized they forgot to set the final prices and just priced everything arbitrarily. While still drunk.
Also such high pricing hardly encourages buying zen. Look at any successful micro transaction model, and you will see the basis to actually lure players into spending more are low priced items. Don't get too greedy though, don't shoot so high over the projected profits in comparison to a subscription model that you end up doing the opposite, which is scare the majority away.
Agreed. I feel bad for people that paid money for the game. Perfect world has what ? 10 mmorpgs? And they are all fail. I mean they do not know how to run a successful MMORPG. the cash shop is horrible and even if I end up really liking the gameplay, I will never play this game for any significant amount of time because of the horrible business model.
Sorry, can't feel bad for them at all. If they didn't do any research before plunking down their $60 (or for heaven's sake $200!!!), then shame on them. $60 is the going price for a class A title, not a "F2P" game. A little looking would have revealed this is typical PW & Cryptic policy... duh.
As far as cash shop prices... if they come down over the next month or two, then they are overpriced. If suckers pay, they will stay high. Simple cash grab philosophy.
The prices are stupid and the only way they will come down is if the players vote with their wallet! Do not feed the trolls at PW by buying items off the cash shop, maybe then we will see lower prices.
The prices are stupid and the only way they will come down is if the players vote with their wallet! Do not feed the trolls at PW by buying items off the cash shop, maybe then we will see lower prices.
I hope so. Age of Conan prices were crazy for a very long time, hope it is not the same here.
The prices are stupid and the only way they will come down is if the players vote with their wallet! Do not feed the trolls at PW by buying items off the cash shop, maybe then we will see lower prices.
Unfortunately this won't work...there are waaay too many people who are already shelling out money in the thousands on this game. People were actually complaining because PW put a limit of $100 a day on zen purchases. Can you imagine?? 100 bucks a day just to buy zen and trade it in for Astral Diamonds to horde for a rainy day? It just blows my mind, how people can have so much money but so little sense.
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zhaocore86Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
At the end of the day. PW/Cryptic is going to come out with a "figure" that claims their "zen" prices are "profitable" and that they thank all their customers for support.
THEY control the numbers. THEY can "justify" their answers to suit their pricing.
edit: as soon as i get my paycheque i will buy zen to get more bag space. Will i buy a companion? possibly =P
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
M I N D F L A Y E R | D C | G W F
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highdivelowlifeMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
The inventory limitation is a disgusting cash grab. Why do these developers think this is a good business model? F2P was the worse thing to happen to MMOs. If a game is good, people will pay 15 bucks a month to play. Stop making medoicre games and having pay to win cash shops to fund them. It sucks. I cant wait for this free to play fad to pass. Paying money for in game items is just stupid.
The only games that are free to play and done right are Dota 2 and Path of Exile. This is because all the cash shop items are cosmetic and add no gameplay value. If a game is going to be free to play then this is how it needs to be done. Otherwise its going to fail.
totally agree. it seems devs/publishers got so excited because WoW had 10 million subscribers, that everyone wanted some of that cash. like it was a new "cash crop"... the problem is, its not "cash crop//MMO" money, its a total freak accident mixed with the great art and fun*/simple gameplay that WoW is known for. (*= people play WoW who arent even gamers, or have never played games before, as well as gamers, so fun is subjective) so everyone tried to sell a box and a sub... didn't work, because no game is worth spending anywhere from 75$ to 1000$... then, they went straight from that to going F2P//cash shop....>>>>????
here's a brilliant idea-
why not just SELL ME A GAME. when you make more content for it, i WILL buy the expansion pack. it doesn't need to be trickier than that!!!
totally agree. it seems devs/publishers got so excited because WoW had 10 million subscribers, that everyone wanted some of that cash. like it was a new "cash crop"... the problem is, its not "cash crop//MMO" money, its a total freak accident mixed with the great art and fun*/simple gameplay that WoW is known for. (*= people play WoW who arent even gamers, or have never played games before, as well as gamers, so fun is subjective) so everyone tried to sell a box and a sub... didn't work, because no game is worth spending anywhere from 75$ to 1000$... then, they went straight from that to going F2P//cash shop....>>>>????
here's a brilliant idea-
why not just SELL ME A GAME. when you make more content for it, i WILL buy the expansion pack. it doesn't need to be trickier than that!!!
They make more money with impulse buyers these days. Just look at the game, youll see quite a lot of people with the Zen market mounts/companions. They only know how many bag spaces they sold already (me being one)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
M I N D F L A Y E R | D C | G W F
Unfortunately this won't work...there are waaay too many people who are already shelling out money in the thousands on this game. People were actually complaining because PW put a limit of $100 a day on zen purchases. Can you imagine?? 100 bucks a day just to buy zen and trade it in for Astral Diamonds to horde for a rainy day? It just blows my mind, how people can have so much money but so little sense.
Which means that a substantial part of the community think the prices are ok - so seems the free market is working as intended. Just bad luck for those of us who think they are too high (same thing I think about some cars I guess).
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slymieMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Lots of sane comments, thanks for the additional feedback everyone. I'm hearing some of you say that since people are paying the high prices, then those prices must be OK. While that's true, it doesn't mean it will be valid for the long haul. We only have a handfull of classes right now, with many more slated to be released. You get an abysmally low number of character slots, 2, for a regular player. How many of those people do you think are going to be happy spending $10 just to get a new character slot, and then whatever horrendously high price PWI puts on the new classes when they are released? You know they aren't just going to put them out for free if the current cash shop strategy is any example.
On to the respecs... So they are Zen only items. Not sure about the other classes, but the Control Wizard has only one paragon path to chose from, but "more are on the way". So when we get those new paragon paths, will we be forced to cash buy a respec token to chose them? Or will we get free respecs every time a new paragon path is released?
My big concern is for the longevity of the game. As the cash shop currently stands, I just don't see this game as being able to maintain any degree of great success. Sure, it may be able to eek out a modicum of profit with a small player base and high prices, but if we the players can convince them to keep the prices reasonable and appropriate for the long haul then this game may well be what it is capable of being. A great FTP beer and peanuts DND game.
If mounts and pets are $35-$40 the classes they aid will be $80 each.
I spend all day reading every thread and letting people know this is BETA.
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thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
not giving a cent to PWE or Cryptic.
They could've easily done what Arenanet did and charge you AD for unlocking the slots and giving you the ability to craft bags but no.
I shouldve learnt my lesson from Champions Online but hey i'm a sucker for anything comic book inspired.
p.s. you get more bags as rewards as you level. Just be patient.
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thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Lots of sane comments, thanks for the additional feedback everyone. I'm hearing some of you say that since people are paying the high prices, then those prices must be OK. While that's true, it doesn't mean it will be valid for the long haul. We only have a handfull of classes right now, with many more slated to be released. You get an abysmally low number of character slots, 2, for a regular player. How many of those people do you think are going to be happy spending $10 just to get a new character slot, and then whatever horrendously high price PWI puts on the new classes when they are released? You know they aren't just going to put them out for free if the current cash shop strategy is any example.
On to the respecs... So they are Zen only items. Not sure about the other classes, but the Control Wizard has only one paragon path to chose from, but "more are on the way". So when we get those new paragon paths, will we be forced to cash buy a respec token to chose them? Or will we get free respecs every time a new paragon path is released?
My big concern is for the longevity of the game. As the cash shop currently stands, I just don't see this game as being able to maintain any degree of great success. Sure, it may be able to eek out a modicum of profit with a small player base and high prices, but if we the players can convince them to keep the prices reasonable and appropriate for the long haul then this game may well be what it is capable of being. A great FTP beer and peanuts DND game.
It's a painfully obvious p2w game. It's PWE.
When somebody with more money than time to burn can jump on the AH and pretty much buy all end game gear then there is no other description but p2w.
And what you said about the extra paragons being purchased via Zen, I have no doubt that is what's going to happen. Again, it's PWE.
I don't care about character slots (just make a second account), I don't hoard items I'm not using, and flashy mounts aren't important to me. Really the only thing I see myself ever buying is respec tokens, and unless I'm buying three of them every month, I'll still be paying less than I would in a pay-to-play game like WoW. The real value in this game, in my opinion, comes from the Foundry. Unlimited new content, no waiting months for developers to release something.
As for pay-to-win, it exists in every MMO in some form or another anyway. When I played WoW I knew a guy who would spend over $1000 every season to buy 'Gladiator' from a boosting service, just so he could stand around in Org with the title. When someone pays an absurd amount of gold for a raiding guild to run them through a heroic raid to get a title or a mount, usually that gold was bought from farmers. So I really don't blame PWE for letting players buy end-game gear with diamonds, because there are no shortage of people willing to pay to cut corners.
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am0nr3xMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Unfortunately this won't work...there are waaay too many people who are already shelling out money in the thousands on this game. People were actually complaining because PW put a limit of $100 a day on zen purchases. Can you imagine?? 100 bucks a day just to buy zen and trade it in for Astral Diamonds to horde for a rainy day? It just blows my mind, how people can have so much money but so little sense.
They don't have money. They have credit.
And they can pay a minimum payment every month.
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thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I don't care about character slots (just make a second account), I don't hoard items I'm not using, and flashy mounts aren't important to me. Really the only thing I see myself ever buying is respec tokens, and unless I'm buying three of them every month, I'll still be paying less than I would in a pay-to-play game like WoW. The real value in this game, in my opinion, comes from the Foundry. Unlimited new content, no waiting months for developers to release something.
As for pay-to-win, it exists in every MMO in some form or another anyway. When I played WoW I knew a guy who would spend over $1000 every season to buy 'Gladiator' from a boosting service, just so he could stand around in Org with the title. When someone pays an absurd amount of gold for a raiding guild to run them through a heroic raid to get a title or a mount, usually that gold was bought from farmers. So I really don't blame PWE for letting players buy end-game gear with diamonds, because there are no shortage of people willing to pay to cut corners.
There's a difference between paying gold to get run through and dibs on gear and just splurging cash on AD to buy end game gear without having to step foot in a dungeon. It will ultimately lead to those not accustomed to PWE's cashgrab greed to abandon ship.
I know I play mmo's to get max level, hit end game, get geared and feel like i've achieved something not rush to the AH to look up if I can buy my gear that way.
Acquiring loot should be a unique experience for everyone not something that is done via cash.
It'll make those who grind out dungeons feel like what theyre doing is pointless to the point they will stop playing.
Foundry on the other hand needs it's own loot/rewards to merit continuous playing of user created content. Unless of course you're a die hard lore fan or something I doubt once you're decked out in epics/end game gear i'm pretty sure nobody will bother picking up the random unidentified <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> loot that drops.
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thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Beta is a lie. This is a F2P game that is no longer wiping characters and is available for everyone to play and is accepting cash. It's released. They call it an Open Beta so the White Knights can come in here and use the "It's just beta!" slogan until they turn blue.
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thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Beta is a lie. This is a F2P game that is no longer wiping characters and is available for everyone to play and is accepting cash. It's released. They call it an Open Beta so the White Knights can come in here and use the "It's just beta!" slogan until they turn blue.
shhhh don't let the butt hurt fanboys hear you!
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adamaantMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Here we go again.
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beil86Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The inventory limitation is a disgusting cash grab. Why do these developers think this is a good business model? F2P was the worse thing to happen to MMOs. If a game is good, people will pay 15 bucks a month to play. Stop making medoicre games and having pay to win cash shops to fund them. It sucks. I cant wait for this free to play fad to pass. Paying money for in game items is just stupid.
The only games that are free to play and done right are Dota 2 and Path of Exile. This is because all the cash shop items are cosmetic and add no gameplay value. If a game is going to be free to play then this is how it needs to be done. Otherwise its going to fail.
Ok you play the game for free you buy two bags at 20$ and 1 epic mount at 40$ (thats a normal MMO price that is not free) then play how ever many months you want for free, seems fine to me.
Only people who have a problem with cash shops are free loaders who would play and never spend a dime.
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sasajs860Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
Someone said bags come as quest rewards as you level. Depending on size and whether this is true or not that is good news! Otherwise yea paying $10 a bag for 4 slots, x 5 character slots if you want to play all the classes in the game is a bit ridiculous. They should at the very least make the bags Account Wide as well if that is the case. $200 to have greater bag of holdings on all your toons is outrageous, even the Hero Founders don't get that they just get the 1 per toon.
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ordainedoneMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Good to see a thread where everything I have been getting flamed over the last few weeks is coming to light. PWE has always created Money Grab P2Ws. Hell on atleast one of their games at a certain point you can't even progress w/o buying an item from the cash shop. When PWE joined forces with Cryptic I lost all hope for NWO. It's an alright game, but honestly, it's just not worth it. I think more people are starting too see that. I've seen quite a few people who spent 200$ feeling buyers remorse already.
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jakula1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
The purple boxes are the most obvious money grab.
Does anyone know how much money on average it takes to get the nightmare mount from the purple boxes?
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velleriandMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I have no problem spending money on these F2P games. I'm even a sucker for fluff and cool mounts.
But making me pay $10 for a digital backpack is a little ridiculous.
And I really like how these Nightmare boxes are dropping all over the place, but to open one will cost ya Zen.
skirge66Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 31Arc User
edited May 2013
This is what makes me laugh when I see people that argue about games with a subscription fee...At least when I pay my $15 a month I know what I'm getting...and get everything I need...Free to play really is a joke, and never is really free...unless you are simply content with "sub-standard"
$20.00 = 1000z is awfully steep ...and you can't even get bonus zen until you drop $50...and there are sooooo many people that think this is the great wave of the future in MMOs? Sorry, but FTP is pretty much a ripoff.
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sasajs860Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
This is what makes me laugh when I see people that argue about games with a subscription fee...At least when I pay my $15 a month I know what I'm getting...and get everything I need...Free to play really is a joke, and never is really free...unless you are simply content with "sub-standard"
Subscription would be the way to go. Look at LOTRO they have a perfect balance of people who ride the F2P wagon and those who pay the $15 a month to not be limited at all. Was hoping for the same thing here.
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am0nr3xMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
If people want to compare this to a P2P game, then the things we buy on the cash shop need to be representative of a P2P game.
For $15 a month in another game, I have access to all content, a full set of bags, the ability to earn in-game currency and respec, etc. In one month's time for most of those games I can get a single character to max. level and be fairly well equipped.
Based on this, for $10, I better be getting a bag on every character (including future characters I create), not just one. I should be getting half a dozen or more respec tokens that are part of a "pool" of tokens that any character on my account has access to. I should be getting something like a key or identification scroll that has unlimited uses to open boxes/ID items of level 60 or lower for a certain period of time (i.e. a month).
The point is, with a F2P game, you rely on the community. If you drive away even only half of your playerbase by the prices being ridiculous, that means the other half have less people to play with and less reason to play. People underestimate the advantage to having a large, thriving community on maintaining a large, thriving community.
Comments
1 Greater Health Stone = 1500 zen
1 pack with loads of stuff including 1 Greater Health Stone = 1500 zen
This isn't even a sales tactic, it's just plain stupid. It makes me think they had a pre-launch office party at PWI, realized they forgot to set the final prices and just priced everything arbitrarily. While still drunk.
Also such high pricing hardly encourages buying zen. Look at any successful micro transaction model, and you will see the basis to actually lure players into spending more are low priced items. Don't get too greedy though, don't shoot so high over the projected profits in comparison to a subscription model that you end up doing the opposite, which is scare the majority away.
Sorry, can't feel bad for them at all. If they didn't do any research before plunking down their $60 (or for heaven's sake $200!!!), then shame on them. $60 is the going price for a class A title, not a "F2P" game. A little looking would have revealed this is typical PW & Cryptic policy... duh.
As far as cash shop prices... if they come down over the next month or two, then they are overpriced. If suckers pay, they will stay high. Simple cash grab philosophy.
Unfortunately this won't work...there are waaay too many people who are already shelling out money in the thousands on this game. People were actually complaining because PW put a limit of $100 a day on zen purchases. Can you imagine?? 100 bucks a day just to buy zen and trade it in for Astral Diamonds to horde for a rainy day? It just blows my mind, how people can have so much money but so little sense.
THEY control the numbers. THEY can "justify" their answers to suit their pricing.
edit: as soon as i get my paycheque i will buy zen to get more bag space. Will i buy a companion? possibly =P
M I N D F L A Y E R | D C | G W F
totally agree. it seems devs/publishers got so excited because WoW had 10 million subscribers, that everyone wanted some of that cash. like it was a new "cash crop"... the problem is, its not "cash crop//MMO" money, its a total freak accident mixed with the great art and fun*/simple gameplay that WoW is known for. (*= people play WoW who arent even gamers, or have never played games before, as well as gamers, so fun is subjective) so everyone tried to sell a box and a sub... didn't work, because no game is worth spending anywhere from 75$ to 1000$... then, they went straight from that to going F2P//cash shop....>>>>????
here's a brilliant idea-
why not just SELL ME A GAME. when you make more content for it, i WILL buy the expansion pack. it doesn't need to be trickier than that!!!
You also get a TON more "player friendly" features with that $60.00 purchase...namely player crafted bag space.
They make more money with impulse buyers these days. Just look at the game, youll see quite a lot of people with the Zen market mounts/companions. They only know how many bag spaces they sold already (me being one)
M I N D F L A Y E R | D C | G W F
On to the respecs... So they are Zen only items. Not sure about the other classes, but the Control Wizard has only one paragon path to chose from, but "more are on the way". So when we get those new paragon paths, will we be forced to cash buy a respec token to chose them? Or will we get free respecs every time a new paragon path is released?
My big concern is for the longevity of the game. As the cash shop currently stands, I just don't see this game as being able to maintain any degree of great success. Sure, it may be able to eek out a modicum of profit with a small player base and high prices, but if we the players can convince them to keep the prices reasonable and appropriate for the long haul then this game may well be what it is capable of being. A great FTP beer and peanuts DND game.
They could've easily done what Arenanet did and charge you AD for unlocking the slots and giving you the ability to craft bags but no.
I shouldve learnt my lesson from Champions Online but hey i'm a sucker for anything comic book inspired.
p.s. you get more bags as rewards as you level. Just be patient.
It's a painfully obvious p2w game. It's PWE.
When somebody with more money than time to burn can jump on the AH and pretty much buy all end game gear then there is no other description but p2w.
And what you said about the extra paragons being purchased via Zen, I have no doubt that is what's going to happen. Again, it's PWE.
I thought this game was still in beta?
As for pay-to-win, it exists in every MMO in some form or another anyway. When I played WoW I knew a guy who would spend over $1000 every season to buy 'Gladiator' from a boosting service, just so he could stand around in Org with the title. When someone pays an absurd amount of gold for a raiding guild to run them through a heroic raid to get a title or a mount, usually that gold was bought from farmers. So I really don't blame PWE for letting players buy end-game gear with diamonds, because there are no shortage of people willing to pay to cut corners.
They don't have money. They have credit.
And they can pay a minimum payment every month.
There's a difference between paying gold to get run through and dibs on gear and just splurging cash on AD to buy end game gear without having to step foot in a dungeon. It will ultimately lead to those not accustomed to PWE's cashgrab greed to abandon ship.
I know I play mmo's to get max level, hit end game, get geared and feel like i've achieved something not rush to the AH to look up if I can buy my gear that way.
Acquiring loot should be a unique experience for everyone not something that is done via cash.
It'll make those who grind out dungeons feel like what theyre doing is pointless to the point they will stop playing.
Foundry on the other hand needs it's own loot/rewards to merit continuous playing of user created content. Unless of course you're a die hard lore fan or something I doubt once you're decked out in epics/end game gear i'm pretty sure nobody will bother picking up the random unidentified <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> loot that drops.
That's another argument in itself.
Shouldnt really have cash guzzling until official release but let's not go there.
Beta is a lie. This is a F2P game that is no longer wiping characters and is available for everyone to play and is accepting cash. It's released. They call it an Open Beta so the White Knights can come in here and use the "It's just beta!" slogan until they turn blue.
shhhh don't let the butt hurt fanboys hear you!
Ok you play the game for free you buy two bags at 20$ and 1 epic mount at 40$ (thats a normal MMO price that is not free) then play how ever many months you want for free, seems fine to me.
Only people who have a problem with cash shops are free loaders who would play and never spend a dime.
Does anyone know how much money on average it takes to get the nightmare mount from the purple boxes?
But making me pay $10 for a digital backpack is a little ridiculous.
And I really like how these Nightmare boxes are dropping all over the place, but to open one will cost ya Zen.
Dirty pool, PWE
Kain - Guardian Fighter
$20.00 = 1000z is awfully steep ...and you can't even get bonus zen until you drop $50...and there are sooooo many people that think this is the great wave of the future in MMOs? Sorry, but FTP is pretty much a ripoff.
Subscription would be the way to go. Look at LOTRO they have a perfect balance of people who ride the F2P wagon and those who pay the $15 a month to not be limited at all. Was hoping for the same thing here.
For $15 a month in another game, I have access to all content, a full set of bags, the ability to earn in-game currency and respec, etc. In one month's time for most of those games I can get a single character to max. level and be fairly well equipped.
Based on this, for $10, I better be getting a bag on every character (including future characters I create), not just one. I should be getting half a dozen or more respec tokens that are part of a "pool" of tokens that any character on my account has access to. I should be getting something like a key or identification scroll that has unlimited uses to open boxes/ID items of level 60 or lower for a certain period of time (i.e. a month).
The point is, with a F2P game, you rely on the community. If you drive away even only half of your playerbase by the prices being ridiculous, that means the other half have less people to play with and less reason to play. People underestimate the advantage to having a large, thriving community on maintaining a large, thriving community.