Agreed, NWO will never have the amount of builds that DDO has. Not even 10% .. but a lot of that has to do with 4e
...
Having played 3e and 4e a lot, I am convinced that it is not the case. In my opinion, there is more customization in terms of character building in 4e than 3e. But the game is not based on 4e mechanics but invents mechanics of its own.
The predetermined builds they present actually do not exist in 4e. It is a recommended template presented to player with lvl 1 powers which synergize (hence the reason for such dry names). There is no mention of it after those lvl 1 recommendations.
Apart from that, multiclassing and hybrid classes exist which makes customization more deeper.
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elveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 336
edited March 2013
The magic classes in 3rd edition were the most diverse and enjoyable ones to play. What 4th edition tried to do and I think it succeeded was to bring the same type of gameplay to all the classes.
About DDO having large amount of character customization - true but that character customization came from playing the calculator and not actually playing the game.
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kimonagiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
Thats one of the strong points of 4th edition, especially for martial types of classes. They gave them powers that are alot more exciting then just swinging your blade.
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khulodiumMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited March 2013
Wizards won't feel like D&D wizards for me if they can't cast fireball. I mean... FIREBALL!
But I'll show them... I'll NOT play a wizard. That'll show them! *pout* *stamp foot*
The predetermined builds they present actually do not exist in 4e. It is a recommended template presented to player with lvl 1 powers which synergize (hence the reason for such dry names). There is no mention of it after those lvl 1 recommendations.
Yup. the suggested builds in 4e phb were translated to classes in Neverwinter. it would be cooler if they eventually opened up the full class and allowed for choosing the build templates only as an option.
Yup. the suggested builds in 4e phb were translated to classes in Neverwinter. it would be cooler if they eventually opened up the full class and allowed for choosing the build templates only as an option.
Exactly what many of us have been asking for... for a long, long time.
What's the difference between two human Guardian Fighters with the same scores? One could be a 40 year old veteran with a scarred eye, cranky voice and well known for being able to slay a dragon on his youth. The other one could be a young knight seeking his first epic deed so he can gain reputation. Both use a longsword and a shield. Are they clones? Is concept variety denied because they're mechanically the same?
You lost most of my respect in your first quote, particularly when a) you think Rogues are the only DPS in D&D, and b) you couldn't even spell the class. You wouldn't believe how mutable the classes are, and that mages aren't the omnipotent class you seem to think they are - even pre 4e.
But this glaring comparison bugs me the most. The 40-year veteran who can slay a dragon will NOT have the same scores as some new green recruit. It really makes me wonder just how much D&D you've actually played. Have you actually delved into the true game, or just dabbled at it here & there without truly learning the rules. I think it's the later, you seem to have little concept of how the game actually works.
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elveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 336
Yup. the suggested builds in 4e phb were translated to classes in Neverwinter. it would be cooler if they eventually opened up the full class and allowed for choosing the build templates only as an option.
Except they didn't. What they did is split the abilities with the same functionality between two different classes and added the ones that make sense for the playstyle along with them. The classes are pretty much weapon-based or rather - concept based. The names are pretty much the only thing that comes directly from the PhB. And even there the "builds" are not builds at all but suggestions on how you can play the class. The only abilities suggested are the ones you would take on level one. Overall these "builds" describe a playstyle and not a concrete build suited for that playstyle.
I find comparing NWO and DDO interesting. They're pretty different games, with different rulesets, and different ideas of how to keep players entertained but they have similar problems. The problem I always had with DDO was that it might appear to be 3.5E but isn't authentic at all and it seemed to me when it launched way back when that it did introduced enhancements in order to lengthen an otherwise short 10 level game. Then of course they went with the Eberron setting because it was easier to acquire than the Forgotten Realms setting and I never fully accepted that either.
NWO seemingly uses 4E to the best of my knowledge which isn't much but it very much restricts your options, there's level to level progression up to 60 but not much deviance. No selection of feats beyond ranked numerical % benefits and skills are mostly the gathering of materials, rarely ever interaction with the dungeon or environment. It's extremely stiff being that you can only use weapon and my spells or abilities are virtually unrecognizable to previous editions. I do feel like I'm in the Forgotten Realms universe but I may as well be playing a typical fantasy Wizard within it.
Of the two, it's actually been somewhat difficult to say which I would enjoy more and I've been trying to see what else there is left to see of the game that might change my mind. Sure this game has the foundry but I feel that there should be a good base game, without needing to resort to the foundry alone. I don't mind user created content at all but I'd rather enjoy it in addition to the game instead of in place of it. The combat's decidedly fun but will that hold a game? DCUO's combat was often praised but I wouldn't play in a game of a universe I'm not a huge fan of for that alone.
Closed Beta 3 is coming up and I'm wondering if I'll need to see it to make any further considerations, if it will even introduce or show anything new that could change them. Maybe it is impossible to create an authentic translation of any given D&D ruleset, I just wish there was more to be excited about beyond the foundry and future races or classes. I haven't enjoyed an MMO in some time now and I'm still not sure about NWO.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited March 2013
Re: DDO
For every person who loves reading spreadsheets, pouring over forum posts and taking hours outside of the game to try and build a viable character, there's a dozen who just want to play the game.
If you're the former, stick to DDO. If you're the latter, NWO is right up your alley.
I know this is a shocker, but there's plenty of people out there who enjoy playing the game, not just fantasizing about their next "build".
When I first tried DDO, here's a post my friend directed me to:
In DDO, paths are pre-made builds that make it easy for a new player to jump into the game without having to understand the complex D&D character build mechanics. When following a path, you do not need to make your own choices at character creation nor when leveling-up, everything is done automatically. This is a great idea, but unfortunately many such paths have flaws that can make them at best sub-optimal, and at worst totally non viable in the long term, forcing the player to either reroll or buy some expensive respec tokens from the DDO store.
DDO suffers greatly from the fact that is it overly complicated, and without a deep understanding of both D&D AND DDO, it's extremely unlikely that your character choices will end up with anything but a gimped character that can't do much beyond the first few levels, leaving players frustrated and unsatisfied. A common saying in DDO is, "Don't worry, EVERYONE screws up their first character."
It would help if we knew what your D&D experience is. If all you ever played was 4e, then yes I can understand your perspective. But anyone who enjoyed character customization in 2nd, 3rd, 3.5 and pathfinder, will find it hard to associate this game with D&D. IMO.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited March 2013
Played a little of everything, but a lot of 3.0, 3.5 and 4E.
And more choices ISN'T necessarily better.
It wast just as easy to build an unstoppable one-man show in 3.0 and 3.5 as it was to build an unplayable gimp. The difference is in tabletop you had a DM who could alter the game and challenges appropriately so that the game was still fun and playable. You don't have any such option in a video game, hence if you're looking for a more consistent game experience across the board, there's actually a tremedous upside to fewer, but better balanced choices in a game.
The bottom line is, if you like the over abundance of "customization" in DDO to the point it nearly cripples the game, then stick with it.
If you're looking for a game that focus on the actual game experience, then I put my faith in NWO.
Played a little of everything, but a lot of 3.0, 3.5 and 4E.
And more choices ISN'T necessarily better.
It wast just as easy to build an unstoppable one-man show in 3.0 and 3.5 as it was to build an unplayable gimp. The difference is in tabletop you had a DM who could alter the game and challenges appropriately so that the game was still fun and playable. You don't have any such option in a video game, hence if you're looking for a more consistent game experience across the board, there's actually a tremedous upside to fewer, but better balanced choices in a game.
The bottom line is, if you like the over abundance of "customization" in DDO to the point it nearly cripples the game, then stick with it.
If you're looking for a game that focus on the actual game experience, then I put my faith in NWO.
Lack of choices to the point anything you choose doesn't really change anything isn't better either and this is pretty much what we have in NWO as long as you learn the mechanics of combat the rest is pretty meaningless.
An "abundance of customization" doesn't cripple anything, it just makes you use your brain a little more. Also the paths in DDO have been updated.
If you want gameplay experience (at least the way NWO provides it) with a mind numbing lack of options NWO is for you, if you want gameplay experience ( at least the way DDO provides it) AND good customization DDO is for you.
I've put my faith in Cryptic before dunno if I am ready to take that path again.
What I really want though is NWO with a good gameplay experience AND good customization so that I could enjoy both games.
For every person who loves reading spreadsheets, pouring over forum posts and taking hours outside of the game to try and build a viable character, there's a dozen who just want to play the game.
The bottom line is, if you like the over abundance of "customization" in DDO to the point it nearly cripples the game, then stick with it.
I hate to stop you while you are on a roll, but you do realize that DDO also offers predefined paths as an option, that makes all the "hard" choices for you, right?
No spreadsheets, no need to visit a forum. Just a good solid character so you can just play the game.
When Neverwinter was first announce, I was hyped. As information was not being put forth, I slowly lost my interest in the game. Then the announcement that you could cough up 200 bucks for the beta. Turned my stomach. Then to get this ..
D&D is about playing your character, your way, making choices at level up that modify how you character acts in game. When 3rd came out I enjoyed the feel of playing my rogue in a certain way, my ranger too. When 3.5 came out, I felt the changes effecting the way my builds went and went with the flow. When 4th came out I felt the gut wrenching stab of D&D made into a computer game for pencil and paper. Now the rule set for that computer game is being changes and destroyed because its too difficult for the devs to figure out. I give the game a month after launch before it has to change or die. The gamers that they are hoping to draw in with the D&D Neverwinter names will walk out.
Priest.. only one class, no other choice as to how to play.
Wizard.. only one class, no other choice as to how to play.
Rogue.. only one class, no other choice as to how to play.
Warrior gets a new class in beta 3.. two classes, both of which are locked into their ruts and will not change.
No ranger, no sorcerer, no warlord, no flexibility. Game is dead already no amount of polish on it will save it.
Now before you start complaining about how you will keep the game alive or the devs will change how things work, you have to realize that the last time there was a major change in a big name game after release people still walked out. Or did you forget Star Wars Galaxies. If the devs were smart they would take a copy of the player's handbook for 4th edition D&D and start working on shifting those classes into the game. Not all rogues are tricksters. Not all mages are control mages. Not all warriors stick with a sword and board or a great sword. They modify how they fight as they need to.
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wifeaggr0Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 16Arc User
No no no. You dont know a thing about DDO, nor do you understand the challenges Neverwinter faces.
I played ddo for a looooong time, while my activity hasnt been recent, it wont ever be again i can assure you of that, ive explored other options since and moved on.
You can call your build and times it by how ever many builds you get out of mix, maxing mongrel breeds of this and that, 2 ranger, 7 wizard, 3 sorc, and 6 fighter and call it whatever you want, and throw those equations around by saying there's so many builds, problem is most of them are junk unless the leet's devise some spreadsheet based on some exploit 4 lvls of barb gives you and becomes flavour of the month till it gets nerfed.
Yeah we play cryptics build 4-5, and give them time to create another 4-5 and so on and so on. War wizard, Control Wizard, Archer ranger, two bladed ranger, battle cleric, devoted cleric, GWF, Guardian Fighter, avenging paladin, protecting paladin, brawny rogue, trickster rogue, deceptive warlock, scourge warlock, inspiring warlord, tactical warlord, isolating avenger, pursuing avenger, rageblood barbarian, thaneborn barbarian, cunning bard, valorous bard, guardian druid, predator druid, preserving invoker, wrathful invoker, bear shaman, panther shaman, chaos sorc, dragon sorc, earth warden, wild warden, enlightened ardent, Euphoric ardent, resilent battlemind, quick battlemind, centered breath monk, stone fist monk, telekinetic psion, telepathic psion, defiant runepriest, wrathful runepriest, protecting seeker, vengeful seeker, to name a few can go on Revenant ect ect ect....... give the devs the chance to actually implement the classes, so that then you can create your hybrid builds and apply the powers ect based on those builds.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
If the devs were smart they would take a copy of the player's handbook for 4th edition D&D and start working on shifting those classes into the game.
/facepalm
You realized that's exactly what they're doing, right? Archer Ranger and Scourge Warlock are already in the hopper for post-release, with expectations that many more will follow.
Cryptic isn't saying "5 classes, that's it".
Not all rogues are tricksters. Not all mages are control mages. Not all warriors stick with a sword and board or a great sword. They modify how they fight as they need to.
Exactly. Which is why you should expect to see the Great Weapon Fighter (in BWE3 this weekend), the War Wizard and Brawny rogue in the future, in addition to other class, like the missing Paladin, Warlord, Ranger and Warlock.
The reason im having a hard time calling this a dnd game is that the lack of wizard spells. 1st lv wiz sorc spells. alarm, endure, hold portal, protection from chaos evil and good, shield, grease ,mage armor, mount ,obscuring ,mist, summon monster,1 unseen servant detect secret door ,identify ,true strike ,charm person, hypmotism, sleep ,magic missile, tensers, change self , color spray, nystul magical aura, slient image, casue fear, chill touch ,ray of enfeeblement, burning hands, enlarge ,expeditious retreat, feather fall ,jump ,magic wepon, reduce ,shocking grasp ,spider climb..
and that's just first lv spells
and what about rogues not being able too search for secret doors?
or my fighter not being able too use any weapon he wants or switch too two weapon fighting.
So I liked the game I just don't see a lot of replay ability in it , run it once maybe twice then back too DDO
I played 1 and 2.5 in my time, that was my first experience with D&D. I used the Tome of Magic and would love to see them implement some aspects from that for post max level advancement. I Also would love to see them put in some post max level advancement into this title similar to what Rift did with their planar atunement (of course within the confines of the D&D universe)
I would also like to see them fix the targeting so that it works more like the targeting and interface in GW2. One could autotarget like they are doing now or click target on a specific target and focus on that one target. What they have here is annoying because a mouse could walk in front of you and disrupt everything, that's unrealistic even for D&D 1 rules.
You realized that's exactly what they're doing, right? Archer Ranger and Scourge Warlock are already in the hopper for post-release, with expectations that many more will follow.
Cryptic isn't saying "5 classes, that's it".
No they are breaking the classes down to their littlest points and locking the characters into those strands of what they think the character would be able to do.
Exactly. Which is why you should expect to see the Great Weapon Fighter (in BWE3 this weekend), the War Wizard and Brawny rogue in the future, in addition to other class, like the missing Paladin, Warlord, Ranger and Warlock.
But when they break the classes down to single thread theories, the game stops being a game worth playing. Go to your local hobby shop or gaming group and ask any number of players to make a rogue. You will get that many different versions. Not all of them will be trickster rogues.
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elveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 336
No they are breaking the classes down to their littlest points and locking the characters into those strands of what they think the character would be able to do.
But when they break the classes down to single thread theories, the game stops being a game worth playing. Go to your local hobby shop or gaming group and ask any number of players to make a rogue. You will get that many different versions. Not all of them will be trickster rogues.
The thing is they haven't done that. They locked the classes by weapon but they gave them various things they can do. Just about any character is a viable DPS if you build it the right way and every character has at least one other role it could fill in the party. Just because they are named "Guardian Fighter" and "Control Wizard" doesn't mean this is all they are good for.
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l1zardo1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
I wonder how many people in this thread even played BW2, and how many classes/levels they experienced.
They have moved quite quickly to port this game to an MMO. Classes are the hardest things to overhaul and rebalance. This is still a WIP ...
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vehtshetcMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited March 2013
PVP. Always PVP. why is it people think no game can survive without PVP? It may be I just never played the right groups, but I never was part of a game where the characters fought other groups of characters not played by the DM. Never mind the vast number of total bleephats that swarm like flies to any variant of that preposterous boil on the MMORPG's backside.
As to that, it will be interesting to see if 'neverwinter' manages to do the whole 'RP' thing right. Or if we'll have to do it all in our heads yet again.
As for editions...me and my friends identified 4th ed right away as the 'pc rpg' edition. aka not 'proper' dnd. but it's long indeed since I stopped believing in quality lasting.
And yes, 4th ed is definately the way to go for an mmo. want the other stuff? Try DDO.
All that said, I love the game, the very idea of it. Not sure what I think of the whole 'be drizzt' thing of the founder's pack, but I reckon it will be good for a laugh. And that 'guest' betakey would have been a nice touch...if not for the fact that betakeys have been handed out all over the place like they were going out of style.
All in all, I plan to play the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of this beta weekend, to make up for all my lost time last time. Here's to hoping I won't have to log out and then back in for the pirate hat...
The beta key was rarer when I got it for OBW2, my friend for that!
#3 they are f'n everywhere!
I got BW2 key pretty easy from MMORPG.COM
They gave away 1500 of them, lasted more than 24 hours. So those who visit forum daily (or at least that one day) should have received BW2 key quiet easily.
BW3 keys are also being doled out by MMORPG.COM right now.
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lightspeed2k10Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
Wow. Will there be no end to these D&D threads.
The devs have said they are concentrating more on combat which is why every class is locked down so hard even the few choices you get in 4E aren't available. This is D&D pretty much in name only. Thats just the way it is.
.... This is D&D pretty much in name only. Thats just the way it is.
I disagree. Lore is very strongly D&D, so is the main story.
It is a perfect MMO which tells D&D story. As R.A. Salvatore novels are regarded as D&D, the MMO is also D&D by extrapolation.
And no, it does not reflect PnP gameplay mechanics.
I disagree. Lore is very strongly D&D, so is the main story. It is a perfect MMO which tells D&D story. As R.A. Salvatore novels are regarded as D&D, the MMO is also D&D by extrapolation. And no, it does not reflect PnP gameplay mechanics.
I'd be wary of throwing around phrases like "perfect MMO." Firstly, this game is far from perfect. Secondly, no game is ever going to be perfect. I think that all any of us can do as beta testers is help the devs understand what would bring the game _closer_ to perfect for us. It'll never get there, though. Speaking for myself, an MMO cannot be perfect unless it has a way for my character to log out in a place I "own," a place that I can decorate and customize. That's because the characters I like to play have lives outside of killing stuff. They aren't simply mass murderers on a genocidal scale and they aren't hobos, so they deserve houses or at least a customizable inn room to "sleep" in.
Yep, that means that pretty much no MMO is perfect for me since the ones having decent housing (like EQII) are flawed in other ways. So a game like Neverwinter won't be perfect, but I can give advice to try and make it _better_.
Since it's really obvious (both from dev statements and actual gameplay) that the customizability of our characters is meant to be as deep as a kiddie pool, it would be a good idea for the devs to give us _a lot_ of classes and races, each one as shallow as the others. Also, the quests should be as varied as possible within the arcade-style gameplay model, because folks will be running them over and over with new, barely customizable characters. So that's my advice: lots of character classes and races, and lots of quests to counter the inevitable disappointment that will set in when people realize that their character is _virtually identical_ (not completely identical; I understand that there are some different abilities that can be slotted at high levels) to every other one out there.
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Having played 3e and 4e a lot, I am convinced that it is not the case. In my opinion, there is more customization in terms of character building in 4e than 3e. But the game is not based on 4e mechanics but invents mechanics of its own.
The predetermined builds they present actually do not exist in 4e. It is a recommended template presented to player with lvl 1 powers which synergize (hence the reason for such dry names). There is no mention of it after those lvl 1 recommendations.
Apart from that, multiclassing and hybrid classes exist which makes customization more deeper.
About DDO having large amount of character customization - true but that character customization came from playing the calculator and not actually playing the game.
But I'll show them... I'll NOT play a wizard. That'll show them! *pout* *stamp foot*
Yup. the suggested builds in 4e phb were translated to classes in Neverwinter. it would be cooler if they eventually opened up the full class and allowed for choosing the build templates only as an option.
Exactly what many of us have been asking for... for a long, long time.
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You lost most of my respect in your first quote, particularly when a) you think Rogues are the only DPS in D&D, and b) you couldn't even spell the class. You wouldn't believe how mutable the classes are, and that mages aren't the omnipotent class you seem to think they are - even pre 4e.
But this glaring comparison bugs me the most. The 40-year veteran who can slay a dragon will NOT have the same scores as some new green recruit. It really makes me wonder just how much D&D you've actually played. Have you actually delved into the true game, or just dabbled at it here & there without truly learning the rules. I think it's the later, you seem to have little concept of how the game actually works.
Except they didn't. What they did is split the abilities with the same functionality between two different classes and added the ones that make sense for the playstyle along with them. The classes are pretty much weapon-based or rather - concept based. The names are pretty much the only thing that comes directly from the PhB. And even there the "builds" are not builds at all but suggestions on how you can play the class. The only abilities suggested are the ones you would take on level one. Overall these "builds" describe a playstyle and not a concrete build suited for that playstyle.
NWO seemingly uses 4E to the best of my knowledge which isn't much but it very much restricts your options, there's level to level progression up to 60 but not much deviance. No selection of feats beyond ranked numerical % benefits and skills are mostly the gathering of materials, rarely ever interaction with the dungeon or environment. It's extremely stiff being that you can only use weapon and my spells or abilities are virtually unrecognizable to previous editions. I do feel like I'm in the Forgotten Realms universe but I may as well be playing a typical fantasy Wizard within it.
Of the two, it's actually been somewhat difficult to say which I would enjoy more and I've been trying to see what else there is left to see of the game that might change my mind. Sure this game has the foundry but I feel that there should be a good base game, without needing to resort to the foundry alone. I don't mind user created content at all but I'd rather enjoy it in addition to the game instead of in place of it. The combat's decidedly fun but will that hold a game? DCUO's combat was often praised but I wouldn't play in a game of a universe I'm not a huge fan of for that alone.
Closed Beta 3 is coming up and I'm wondering if I'll need to see it to make any further considerations, if it will even introduce or show anything new that could change them. Maybe it is impossible to create an authentic translation of any given D&D ruleset, I just wish there was more to be excited about beyond the foundry and future races or classes. I haven't enjoyed an MMO in some time now and I'm still not sure about NWO.
For every person who loves reading spreadsheets, pouring over forum posts and taking hours outside of the game to try and build a viable character, there's a dozen who just want to play the game.
If you're the former, stick to DDO. If you're the latter, NWO is right up your alley.
I know this is a shocker, but there's plenty of people out there who enjoy playing the game, not just fantasizing about their next "build".
When I first tried DDO, here's a post my friend directed me to:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=232660
And let me quote:
DDO suffers greatly from the fact that is it overly complicated, and without a deep understanding of both D&D AND DDO, it's extremely unlikely that your character choices will end up with anything but a gimped character that can't do much beyond the first few levels, leaving players frustrated and unsatisfied. A common saying in DDO is, "Don't worry, EVERYONE screws up their first character."
Yeah, thanks, but no thanks.
And more choices ISN'T necessarily better.
It wast just as easy to build an unstoppable one-man show in 3.0 and 3.5 as it was to build an unplayable gimp. The difference is in tabletop you had a DM who could alter the game and challenges appropriately so that the game was still fun and playable. You don't have any such option in a video game, hence if you're looking for a more consistent game experience across the board, there's actually a tremedous upside to fewer, but better balanced choices in a game.
The bottom line is, if you like the over abundance of "customization" in DDO to the point it nearly cripples the game, then stick with it.
If you're looking for a game that focus on the actual game experience, then I put my faith in NWO.
Lack of choices to the point anything you choose doesn't really change anything isn't better either and this is pretty much what we have in NWO as long as you learn the mechanics of combat the rest is pretty meaningless.
An "abundance of customization" doesn't cripple anything, it just makes you use your brain a little more. Also the paths in DDO have been updated.
If you want gameplay experience (at least the way NWO provides it) with a mind numbing lack of options NWO is for you, if you want gameplay experience ( at least the way DDO provides it) AND good customization DDO is for you.
I've put my faith in Cryptic before dunno if I am ready to take that path again.
What I really want though is NWO with a good gameplay experience AND good customization so that I could enjoy both games.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
I hate to stop you while you are on a roll, but you do realize that DDO also offers predefined paths as an option, that makes all the "hard" choices for you, right?
No spreadsheets, no need to visit a forum. Just a good solid character so you can just play the game.
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D&D is about playing your character, your way, making choices at level up that modify how you character acts in game. When 3rd came out I enjoyed the feel of playing my rogue in a certain way, my ranger too. When 3.5 came out, I felt the changes effecting the way my builds went and went with the flow. When 4th came out I felt the gut wrenching stab of D&D made into a computer game for pencil and paper. Now the rule set for that computer game is being changes and destroyed because its too difficult for the devs to figure out. I give the game a month after launch before it has to change or die. The gamers that they are hoping to draw in with the D&D Neverwinter names will walk out.
Priest.. only one class, no other choice as to how to play.
Wizard.. only one class, no other choice as to how to play.
Rogue.. only one class, no other choice as to how to play.
Warrior gets a new class in beta 3.. two classes, both of which are locked into their ruts and will not change.
No ranger, no sorcerer, no warlord, no flexibility. Game is dead already no amount of polish on it will save it.
Now before you start complaining about how you will keep the game alive or the devs will change how things work, you have to realize that the last time there was a major change in a big name game after release people still walked out. Or did you forget Star Wars Galaxies. If the devs were smart they would take a copy of the player's handbook for 4th edition D&D and start working on shifting those classes into the game. Not all rogues are tricksters. Not all mages are control mages. Not all warriors stick with a sword and board or a great sword. They modify how they fight as they need to.
I played ddo for a looooong time, while my activity hasnt been recent, it wont ever be again i can assure you of that, ive explored other options since and moved on.
You can call your build and times it by how ever many builds you get out of mix, maxing mongrel breeds of this and that, 2 ranger, 7 wizard, 3 sorc, and 6 fighter and call it whatever you want, and throw those equations around by saying there's so many builds, problem is most of them are junk unless the leet's devise some spreadsheet based on some exploit 4 lvls of barb gives you and becomes flavour of the month till it gets nerfed.
Yeah we play cryptics build 4-5, and give them time to create another 4-5 and so on and so on. War wizard, Control Wizard, Archer ranger, two bladed ranger, battle cleric, devoted cleric, GWF, Guardian Fighter, avenging paladin, protecting paladin, brawny rogue, trickster rogue, deceptive warlock, scourge warlock, inspiring warlord, tactical warlord, isolating avenger, pursuing avenger, rageblood barbarian, thaneborn barbarian, cunning bard, valorous bard, guardian druid, predator druid, preserving invoker, wrathful invoker, bear shaman, panther shaman, chaos sorc, dragon sorc, earth warden, wild warden, enlightened ardent, Euphoric ardent, resilent battlemind, quick battlemind, centered breath monk, stone fist monk, telekinetic psion, telepathic psion, defiant runepriest, wrathful runepriest, protecting seeker, vengeful seeker, to name a few can go on Revenant ect ect ect....... give the devs the chance to actually implement the classes, so that then you can create your hybrid builds and apply the powers ect based on those builds.
/facepalm
You realized that's exactly what they're doing, right? Archer Ranger and Scourge Warlock are already in the hopper for post-release, with expectations that many more will follow.
Cryptic isn't saying "5 classes, that's it".
Exactly. Which is why you should expect to see the Great Weapon Fighter (in BWE3 this weekend), the War Wizard and Brawny rogue in the future, in addition to other class, like the missing Paladin, Warlord, Ranger and Warlock.
and that's just first lv spells
and what about rogues not being able too search for secret doors?
or my fighter not being able too use any weapon he wants or switch too two weapon fighting.
So I liked the game I just don't see a lot of replay ability in it , run it once maybe twice then back too DDO
I would also like to see them fix the targeting so that it works more like the targeting and interface in GW2. One could autotarget like they are doing now or click target on a specific target and focus on that one target. What they have here is annoying because a mouse could walk in front of you and disrupt everything, that's unrealistic even for D&D 1 rules.
No they are breaking the classes down to their littlest points and locking the characters into those strands of what they think the character would be able to do.
But when they break the classes down to single thread theories, the game stops being a game worth playing. Go to your local hobby shop or gaming group and ask any number of players to make a rogue. You will get that many different versions. Not all of them will be trickster rogues.
They have moved quite quickly to port this game to an MMO. Classes are the hardest things to overhaul and rebalance. This is still a WIP ...
As to that, it will be interesting to see if 'neverwinter' manages to do the whole 'RP' thing right. Or if we'll have to do it all in our heads yet again.
As for editions...me and my friends identified 4th ed right away as the 'pc rpg' edition. aka not 'proper' dnd. but it's long indeed since I stopped believing in quality lasting.
And yes, 4th ed is definately the way to go for an mmo. want the other stuff? Try DDO.
All that said, I love the game, the very idea of it. Not sure what I think of the whole 'be drizzt' thing of the founder's pack, but I reckon it will be good for a laugh. And that 'guest' betakey would have been a nice touch...if not for the fact that betakeys have been handed out all over the place like they were going out of style.
All in all, I plan to play the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of this beta weekend, to make up for all my lost time last time. Here's to hoping I won't have to log out and then back in for the pirate hat...
#3 they are f'n everywhere!
I got BW2 key pretty easy from MMORPG.COM
They gave away 1500 of them, lasted more than 24 hours. So those who visit forum daily (or at least that one day) should have received BW2 key quiet easily.
BW3 keys are also being doled out by MMORPG.COM right now.
The devs have said they are concentrating more on combat which is why every class is locked down so hard even the few choices you get in 4E aren't available. This is D&D pretty much in name only. Thats just the way it is.
It is a perfect MMO which tells D&D story. As R.A. Salvatore novels are regarded as D&D, the MMO is also D&D by extrapolation.
And no, it does not reflect PnP gameplay mechanics.
(I'm drunk and too lazy took it up lol)
Either way just enjoy the game.
Nothing is wrong with this, it's just different.
Yep, that means that pretty much no MMO is perfect for me since the ones having decent housing (like EQII) are flawed in other ways. So a game like Neverwinter won't be perfect, but I can give advice to try and make it _better_.
Since it's really obvious (both from dev statements and actual gameplay) that the customizability of our characters is meant to be as deep as a kiddie pool, it would be a good idea for the devs to give us _a lot_ of classes and races, each one as shallow as the others. Also, the quests should be as varied as possible within the arcade-style gameplay model, because folks will be running them over and over with new, barely customizable characters. So that's my advice: lots of character classes and races, and lots of quests to counter the inevitable disappointment that will set in when people realize that their character is _virtually identical_ (not completely identical; I understand that there are some different abilities that can be slotted at high levels) to every other one out there.