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  • gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Absolutely! The reviewer system is primarily to weed out quests that exploit, grief, or otherwise violate the EULA... Not to judge overall quality.
    ...

    That makes me very at-ease. Thanks a lot for clearing that up. I also believe that is the right way to do it. Weed out quests violating EULA would increase the quality while having flavor quests would be like spices yummm....
    I can't wait to eat it!
  • stormdrag0nstormdrag0n Member Posts: 3,222 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Absolutely! The reviewer system is primarily to weed out quests that exploit, grief, or otherwise violate the EULA... Not to judge overall quality. A newly published quest must be rated by at least 5 reviewers before it's available to the public, but even if all 5 give it a 1-star rating, it should pass the initial review stage.

    That is excellent news! I would hate to miss out a decent quest because someone else feels it's low quality.

    Good move.
    Always Looking for mature laidback players/rpers for Dungeon Delves!
  • aandrethegiantaandrethegiant Member Posts: 3,369 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Absolutely! The reviewer system is primarily to weed out quests that exploit, grief, or otherwise violate the EULA... Not to judge overall quality. A newly published quest must be rated by at least 5 reviewers before it's available to the public, but even if all 5 give it a 1-star rating, it should pass the initial review stage.

    That sounds like a fantastic method to begin to get quests from completion into the public's hands.

    Perhaps there could be two ratings stats or levels however, one to rate EULA compliance, and one for quality? Then once the quest goes live, displaying some stats on how often they are run and how enjoyable it was might be useful (aka allow quest-goers to rank quests after completion).

    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
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  • thunderspankerthunderspanker Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Silverstars Posts: 713 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2012
    There will be a button to report issues of a questionable nature. When you rate a quest, it will let you pick a number of stars up to five. Most likely it will let you donate some form of currency as a tip, and on that screen you are able to report any issues you found offensive.
    It will also let you type something about the quest, whether good or bad. whatever you would like to say about it, for the author, or dungeon master.. :)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Himmelville - Are you easily frightened?
    Click Here


    On one side of the mountain, there were bones...
  • macabrivsmacabrivs Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 417 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2012
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhpYM8GDMIE

    Ok folks, heres one more video about foundry. This one have rly good camera zoom in which allow us a better views of foundry otpions :)
  • kinster2kinster2 Member Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    oooohhh i cant wait.... b:sad
  • ryvvikryvvik Member, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 966 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2012
    macabrivs wrote: »
    Ok folks, heres one more video about foundry. This one have rly good camera zoom in which allow us a better views of foundry otpions :)

    Nice, Shield on Fighter looks great!
  • gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    ryvvik wrote: »
    Nice, Shield on Fighter looks great!

    Omg! The graphics are so good and the city design is awesome. eeekkkk.. I want my grubby hands on the game! I mean I can imagine when I finally am able to walk my character through there, my real life self would be squealing like a little girl...
  • aandrethegiantaandrethegiant Member Posts: 3,369 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    macabrivs wrote: »
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhpYM8GDMIE

    Ok folks, heres one more video about foundry. This one have rly good camera zoom in which allow us a better views of foundry otpions :)



    OMG, ok now I'm impressed! That's a fun to watch, informative HD video. One of the best released and a must watch.

    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
    No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
    Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
  • stormdrag0nstormdrag0n Member Posts: 3,222 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    OMG, ok now I'm impressed! That's a fun to watch, informative HD video. One of the best released and a must watch.

    Yeah I picked up quite a bit from that video, You know I was planning on doing a blog for the quest content that I am planning but it's all integrated into the game which is just amazing.
    Always Looking for mature laidback players/rpers for Dungeon Delves!
  • ausdoerrtausdoerrt Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    macabrivs wrote: »
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhpYM8GDMIE

    Ok folks, heres one more video about foundry. This one have rly good camera zoom in which allow us a better views of foundry otpions :)

    Looks a lot more flexible than initially suspected. By the gods, if even half the old NWN 1/2 modding community gets involved, we're going to have some amazing content! I drool at the thought of NWO-based remakes of adventures from NWN 1/2, IWD, BG2, TOEE, and DDO! b:victory
  • thunderspankerthunderspanker Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Silverstars Posts: 713 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2012
    As a user of the STO foundry, i did notice a few improvements, such as the addition of room population, and the treasure chest. The number of things.. things like objects, monsters, npc's, etc, is awesome. Someone put some time in that.. kudos.

    The dialogue options are very much the same, and very versatile. Accomplishing some complicated twists in the conversation is very intuitive. Now, there is something about DnD that every fan knows, and that is traps. The dialogue will be able to accomplish alot, and the costume editor makes magical boxes that try to kill you possible. I didnt see invisible walls and objects, but i am assuming they are there. They are also very powerful used right. This leads me to something called the "Kobold Trap" which is infamous in the world of Dnd. You walk into a room, and suddenly you are alone surrounded by 4 orcs.. actually, what has happened, is that a cast illusion spell has made every other party member look like a kobold, and there are some real ones to mix it up. lol.
    This is not possible in the STO foundry, and i saw nothing leading me to believe this will be possible, but i am putting it forth as an example of how to really get the DnD flavor.

    All in all, im very impressed, and.. hold on, i drooled.....NIGHTBLADE!!! WE NEED TOWELS WITH THE MOUNTAIN DEW!!!!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Himmelville - Are you easily frightened?
    Click Here


    On one side of the mountain, there were bones...
  • gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    .... This leads me to something called the "Kobold Trap" which is infamous in the world of Dnd. You walk into a room, and suddenly you are alone surrounded by 4 orcs.. ...

    Good thing it is an MMO and not a custom campaign of some twisted DM...
    I mean what is the worse that can happen in the game -you killed and get looted right?
    Or is it? Dun! Dun! Dun!

    btw, if you have been part of the campaign of that kind of DM, you understand right... :p
  • thunderspankerthunderspanker Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Silverstars Posts: 713 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2012
    Evil Dungeon masters need love toooooo. lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Himmelville - Are you easily frightened?
    Click Here


    On one side of the mountain, there were bones...
  • stormdrag0nstormdrag0n Member Posts: 3,222 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    One thing I am really really hoping for is the ability to do even simple cut scenes let us throw up a image with text that will set the scene perhaps add tracks from the in game sound track and maybe some sound effects for flavor...that would give us a lot more freedom when we are in a situation where we can't present something via NPC or action. The ability to add voiced flavor text would be amazing but I get a feeling that is too much to hope for at this point.
    Always Looking for mature laidback players/rpers for Dungeon Delves!
  • stormdrag0nstormdrag0n Member Posts: 3,222 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Evil Dungeon masters need love toooooo. lol

    Yes...yes we do b:sin
    Always Looking for mature laidback players/rpers for Dungeon Delves!
  • ryvvikryvvik Member, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 966 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2012
    http://www.mmorpgitalia.it/site/content.php?4814-Neverwinter-Craig-Zinkievich-Exclusive-Interview

    "MMORPGITALIA: The Foundry looks like a powerful tool, but one of your direct competitors, Dungeons and Dragons Online, makes use of different kind of puzzles (levers, combinations, timed events and the like). Have you got plans to use and support something similar in Neverwinter?

    Craig Zinkievich: As you saw yesterday, everything we have will be available for the players to use. I think that cool features like the possibility of branching the streamline of the quest (with dialogues, events and so on) will help the players to create as many different paths as they like to complete a mission.

    MMORPGITALIA: Will it be possible to use the Foundry offline and then upload what we created?

    Craig Zinkievich: Actually no. You will have to be connected to build your quests and dungeons; this will also help the system to guide you and tell you if something is missing throughout the whole process."

    by Gabriele Darak Giorgi
  • lordxenitelordxenite Member Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    OK, so I'm going to watch the videos... Soon?, but in the mean-time I gotta say that one of the things I miss the most about D&D-type MMO's are those mini-games that allow you to pick locks and disable traps.

    Do you guys know perhaps if NWO is going to feature any of these and if so, will the NWO-Foundry allow authors to utilize these mini-games?
    ____________________________________________
    The poster formerly known as LordOfPit, and his blog.
    * Dec 2007 (CO)
    * Oct 2008 (STO)
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Placing locked doors would probably be possible in foundry. But I figure that unlocking them won't involve a mini-game. Probably just a skill check to see if you unlock it or break your lockpick.

    If you break a lockpick, the end should be stuck in the lock, thus making it impossible to unlock. Doors should also be bashable, but bashing a door down would not do for quests requiring stealth.

    Those rules should apply to both doors and chests.

    And yes... We should be able to place chests throughout the dungeons we create. If we place one, then a level apropriate spawn point would auto place in front of it. Mobs spawned by it would generate no loot. If i put a level 1 chest, then Level 1 mobs would ideally be auto-placed around it in enough quantities to equal the average level of the group. But the items in the chest would only be of level 1 quality. As long as the contents of the chest are based upon loot tables created by Cryptic/PWE, then they cannot be exploited. Make any loot from chests bound to the account of the person who claims it will prevent it from becoming goldseller fodder. So either I need it or I don't.
    I'm not really a John Galt,
    but I play one on the forums...
    :P
  • ausdoerrtausdoerrt Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    And yes... We should be able to place chests throughout the dungeons we create.

    I'm under the impression that they went with "only chest is the end-chest" though, with the rest of the loot dropping from monsters.
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    ausdoerrt wrote: »
    I'm under the impression that they went with "only chest is the end-chest" though, with the rest of the loot dropping from monsters.

    Yeah... That's why I worded it the way I did. A chest placed in other parts of the dungeon would have a mandatory mob spawner associated with it, so the chest would be guarded. Those particular mobs would not drop loot (it would be in the chest). It's still based on the loot table approach that they are going with for the end-of-quest chest.

    The approach would be the same as having mobs drop loot. It would just add variety to how the same loot is presented. The chest may be empty, just like a group of mobs might not drop any loot... Variety is the spice of gaming life...

    If you also add the lockpicking element to a chest, you add an aditional dynamic that makes having a thief in your party a good thing. A mage could blast a locked chest open and a warrior-type could bash it open. But either method could and should alert any sentient mobs in perception range that intruders are about so the challenge rating of an encounter with them may be higher than normal, or the old D&D device, the wandering monsters, could apply, spawned by the noise that bashing a door or chest might make...
    I'm not really a John Galt,
    but I play one on the forums...
    :P
  • ryvvikryvvik Member, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 966 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2012
    "Before you ask, the answer is 'yes', by the way. Yes, sadistic DMs, you can potentially spawn an entire army behind your unwitting players if they make the mistake of tugging at the wrong level. Triggers exist in all shapes and sizes here in the Foundry. Asides from attaching them to dialogue branches, you'll also be able to connect them to objects, thereafter allowing you to build potentially brain-tweaking puzzles"


    "Cryptic Studios isn't quite done yet. There's more in the works. They're trying to figure out how to get PVP into the Foundry and how best to replicate those evenings spent rolling dice at a tabletop D&D session. There is a strong adherence to quality as well. A team of five volunteers is responsible for ensuring that every map passes muster before it is submitted to the player base for cross-examination. The good levels will see themselves elevated to stardom; the bad ones will get buried under negative reviews."

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/634/feature/6670/The-Foundry-Shapes-the-Game.html/page/1

    Article By: Cassandra Khaw
  • sl1ckm1stersl1ckm1ster Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    My main concern about the foundry is that STO's foundry was all but abandoned after release, and has only recently gotten a minor update. Will NW's foundry continue to have real support after launch or will it be abandoned like STO's was?
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    My main concern about the foundry is that STO's foundry was all but abandoned after release, and has only recently gotten a minor update. Will NW's foundry continue to have real support after launch or will it be abandoned like STO's was?

    In all fairness, the people who abandoned STO's foundry came here to work on Neverwinter's foundry, and they are supposedly going to bring the codebase for both on par with each other. The recent update to STO was supposed to be the first step towards that.

    Ideally, going forward, any other PWE-Cryptic title should be able to share a common foundry codebase, with extensions made to be unique to the game. For example, if they ever gave Champions a Foundry, it would be the same codebase, but would exclude functionality that would only make sense in STO or NW, and have its own extensions that fit CO apropriately.

    Functionaluty for all foundry supportive titles would ideally work with Foundtry in and of itself, so new features that are core-specific could simply be added, while features that are game-specific could be hidden behind sort of a server-side config file that enables or disables features. As long as the latest version of Foundry is running on the server in question and the config file has the right things turned on and off, there shouldn't be too much of a problem... In theory...
    I'm not really a John Galt,
    but I play one on the forums...
    :P
  • ryvvikryvvik Member, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 966 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2012
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnXCsGVIYsw

    no scripting of monsters A.I. 3.09
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    And they won't be charging for foundry resource kits either.

    SIGH

    So no paying for gameplay content and no paying for quest creation content. Looks like the only thing they will charge us for is fluff, which in turn means that is the only thing they'll be putting development resources into.

    It's been made abundantly clear to STO players that only what makes them money will be what gets serious developer attention. So the only reason we won't be paying for gameplay content will be because they likely won't develop any gameplay content.

    I have made it abundantly clear in the past in many different places:

    I WILL NOT PAY FOR FLUFF

    I WILL PAY FOR GAMEPLAY CONTENT

    I WILL PAY FOR QUEST CREATION KITS
    I'm not really a John Galt,
    but I play one on the forums...
    :P
  • sl1ckm1stersl1ckm1ster Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    In all fairness, the people who abandoned STO's foundry came here to work on Neverwinter's foundry, and they are supposedly going to bring the codebase for both on par with each other.

    Exactly. Which is why I am concerned that they will simply abandon NW and move on to the next project once again. The new projects that arent yet live are always on a higher codebase than the live games, so it would be the same abandonment as before until the new game was ready to go live.
  • aandrethegiantaandrethegiant Member Posts: 3,369 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I WILL NOT PAY FOR FLUFF

    I WILL PAY FOR GAMEPLAY CONTENT

    I WILL PAY FOR QUEST CREATION KITS

    Your capital letters are quite powerful, perhaps maybe bold and a few different colors might get their attention faster... not to mention the quintessential baby bear or three.

    Hate to break this to you Mr Consultant, people today buy digital fluff all the time. Ever heard of a little company called Facebook? Those arent even "games." I could put a blindfold on a monkey and he can probably click the mouse and "win." But as long as 2 out of 10 monkeys reach into their wallet and pull out some chimp change... Facebook remains a media darling (as opposed to the Wall Street laughing stock they've become.)

    MMOs follows the same logic. It's all about how you color the pixel.

    I expect "non-essential items" to get added to the equation at launch. The road from fluff to Pay-to-Win will come down to time and money.

    The million dollar question is can they make us buy the fluff? If not, expect them to rush out P2W items faster.

    I have no doubt someday we'll be arguing that items are/are not pay to win, on this very forum. I simply will not believe otherwise.

    There's a lot of reasons to go f2p + fluff. But the real reason is traffic. They know they only need 2 out of every 10 monkeys to get hooked to the game.

    Sadly, many long time gamers see the handwriting on the wall. They need to make the game people here WANT. They need to TALK to the community. They cant rely on Steam and assume they can just make a "Facebook" game and make "Facebook" money.

    D&D is a different animal. As are their legion of fans. Sell the IP to the core audience first. Let word of mouth go viral.

    In other words Cryptic, make the game for the two monkeys, not all 10 monkeys. If you don't, in time you may have no monkeys :)

    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
    No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
    Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
  • vindiconvindicon Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I WILL NOT PAY FOR FLUFF

    I WILL PAY FOR GAMEPLAY CONTENT

    I WILL PAY FOR QUEST CREATION KITS

    Charging for content is the absolute worst way you can monetise a f2p game. And the best way to turn any new player away and running. Because, when the first thing they are granted with when they enter the game is premium-only classes and premium-only dungeons, that force them to pay to enjoy the game, why would they choose to stay instead of going in another, proper f2p, whith a cashshop that is mildly tempting rather than screaming right in front of their faces?
    Not to mention... charging for quest creation kits and assets? Creating custom-made content is essentially free labor for the developing company, the fans create tons of extra content for the game and the company gets it all for free. In what world does paying money to be able to work for free make any sense? Certainly not in this world, and I'm willing to bet not in Abeil-Toril either...

    So, just to be clear (for myself): the moment I see a single piece of content sliced off the game and put on sale, I'm off and never looking back. Even just fluff not being reliably accessible via in-game currency is already my limit in what I percieve as acceptable.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • sl1ckm1stersl1ckm1ster Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    vindicon wrote: »
    Charging for content is the absolute worst way you can monetise your game. And the best way to turn any new player away and running.

    So, just to be clear (for myself): the moment I see a single piece of content sliced off the game and put on sale, I'm off and never looking back. Even just fluff not being reliably accessible via in-game currency is already my limit in what I percieve as acceptable.

    Unfortunately, charging for content is the only guarantee they will actually keep making new content on a regular basis...because if they dont they wont make any money. But when they give away all of the content for free and only charge for "fluff", then 99% of their development effort is only on making new "fluff", meaning the game doesnt get any new content for a long time.

    Of course, if the foundry is all its cracked up to be, that may not be as much of an issue here. But in general, what I said is true. The only F2P titles that actually release content on a regular basis also charge for content packs. STO and Champs release new content very sporadically at best, and most of their effort is on C-store items. And no, STO's foundry hasnt been enough to keep that game from feeling like it has a content drought.
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