@asterdahl Again I ask if it possible to show us the stats on how much of the player base use encounters that most have identified as a waste. Eg. Mighty Leap and Not so fast. Granted everyone is different and what I may not find "fun" a lot of others may.
Hi Davidmoki, thanks for taking a look at the changes on preview from this week. I'm sorry to hear that you're upset with the changes to feats. In regards to why there are feats for "weak skills that no one uses," these feats are designed to allow you to choose for instance, one of the feat choices provides a third option for AoE situations by boosting one of two powers that might not see normal use and making it stronger.
You can choose the feat for the power that you like more or that generally supports your playstyle. In the case of Mightier Leap vs. Relentless Speed for instance, you can choose an option that involves more moving around the battlefield, or that's more about staying stationary and getting a free AoE every now and then.
Ultimately, the new feats are focused on providing choices that will change how you play your class, and so I hope you'll give them a try and see how they feel in your rotation. With old feats and class features like destroyer, those class features had things going on at a conceptual level, you were getting stacks of damage for doing things—but these were usually given out when you just did things you were already going to do. Destroyer really didn't change gameplay very much, and in reality if Blademaster needs 9% more damage against groups of enemies, we'd rather simply balance all of Blademaster's AoEs with that in mind, rather than providing an obvious choice that does nothing in terms of gameplay.
I hope that my explanation makes sense. I do understand it's likely not the response you were looking for. But with that said, if you can, would you care to elaborate on what feats or class features you miss, and what it is you miss about them? How they made playing your Barbarian more exciting?
The most obvious thing is that we have a sword, and never use it now, we throw daggers, hammer storms, jump into the sky and dont actually use our close range, which is the second problem, We are close ranged and we can't survive anything without a self heal, a healer cant baby seat you all the time, and we cant dodge everything because our dash is slow, you took away our additional hp (which is an alternative form of healing) and our life steal now damage us, even with the recommended amount of defense and reflection, I get destroyed if anything get nears me, which is counter-intuitive since again, we are a close ranged class. Problem number 3, every since this game was released (and I was there to say) GWF was ALWAYS about at wills, you cant just take away and thing its okay, its not. I know that the concept of mod 16 is skills doing more damage and at wills not so much, but that SHOULD NOT APPLY TO US, its like taking healing away from cleric or the shield away from fighter, its the foundation of our class, you can give skills that hitkill any boss, it will not be same, since the essence from my character were taken away, everything I do now when I'm playing in mod 16 is using skills and running away until my skills are off cd, which is the total opposite of what I do on mod 15, I mark targets, buff my self, use unstoppable and spam at wills, you literally inverted everything, and that is what makes sad the most. About destroyer, okay, what you said make sense, BUT did you increased our base damage by the amount it used to give? It was NOT a 9% damage increase, it was a 62% damage increase because of destroyer purpose and focused destroyer, if you did that, its a bug and consider this part red text, if not, you just missed it and I'm bringing it to your attention. I'm not kidding or exaggerating, I'm actually considering starting all over again because of this changes, if wanted to stay away, spam skills and run around until they are off CD, I would play wizard or warlock. Thank you for your time answering me tho.
Not sure if this is known or intended, but my friend asked me to report for him as he does not have forum account.
Not So Fast will execute twice in a row if the button is pressed fast enough. However if he stops pressing it for a second during the first execution it will not activate a second time.
Could you add a 3rd feat option for all classes and tiers? Because sometimes the feat options you have built both affect powers a person doesn't want to use. So make a 3rd option for all feat tiers that is perhaps bland and less useful/powerful compared to the other 2 ,but would be useful for any build
While I'm basically on-board with the change to the way our EHP is weighted, the reduction in total stamina would seem to create more pressure for abilities that restore stamina... Is that something you'd consider adding to any of our at-wills?
Could you add a 3rd feat option for all classes and tiers? Because sometimes the feat options you have built both affect powers a person doesn't want to use. So make a 3rd option for all feat tiers that is perhaps bland and less useful/powerful compared to the other 2 ,but would be useful for any build
I mean, that, or broaden the feats by either making them have an effect on more powers, or having a secondary, more universal effect if the focal power isn't slotted.
Correction. Can basically kill myself with Bloodletter still. Just had a 450k crit that did 210k to myself. I only have 250k health at 20k ilvl. The bonus magnitude from Hidden Daggers seems to apply to yourself as well.
Why no changes to the first feat pair? It's still a bad set that will only apply to leveling characters who can't use Hidden Daggers. NSF is flat out bad compared to even an unbuffed Mighty Leap, and the marginally shorter cooldown is not enough to make up for it since you will at most get 2 off per fight in solo content and neither should be used in group content period due to aggro issues. If you're insistent on keeping these two situationally-kinda-useful-but-still-inferior skills as the focus of the first feat choice, you need to make this feat choice actually viable at 80 (raise proc chance to 15-20% for Relentless Speed, getting rid of the delay before reactivation with Mightier Leap and adding a control effect to it would be my preferred and would still be fairly balanced vs. Hidden Daggers+Axestorm)
Also, Mightier Leap says "allows its immediate reuse" but I'm experiencing a 1.5-2 second delay before the skill becomes available again that I can't attribute to lag since all of the other powers seem to be working immediately
Axestorm remains inconsistent on hitting mobs above/below the character on uneven terrain, occasionally completely failing to hit the middle mob in a group all at the same elevation. The "corpse yard" part of Vanrakdoom seems particularly egregious with a sub-50% hit rate.
As an edit, bonus damage from Hidden Daggers seems to apply to mobs missed by Axestorm due to terrain differences, so something's only half-working in the code.
Well, just took my 14.5k gwoof to Undermountain. I had a far easier time of it than I did with my 18K warlock. So I hope no one here is complaining about the state of the Barbarian.
The play style is smooth as silk so far, damage from my level 70 Barbie at wills is higher than my level 80 warlock at wills and my encounters are critting for over 100k, so I'm like, please, do not complain that you have things hard over here.
If anything, the Barbie needs to be nerfed. Admittedly, I'm only Level 71 right now and maybe things will change in the higher level zones but right now my undergeared Barbarian is slaughtering everything in sight. And it's mostly just sure strike and IBS. My companion doesn't even have any gear on it. So no, Barbarians right now are on easy street.
Well, just took my 14.5k gwoof to Undermountain. I had a far easier time of it than I did with my 18K warlock. So I hope no one here is complaining about the state of the Barbarian.
The play style is smooth as silk so far, damage from my level 70 Barbie at wills is higher than my level 80 warlock at wills and my encounters are critting for over 100k, so I'm like, please, do not complain that you have things hard over here.
If anything, the Barbie needs to be nerfed. Admittedly, I'm only Level 71 right now and maybe things will change in the higher level zones but right now my undergeared Barbarian is slaughtering everything in sight. And it's mostly just sure strike and IBS. My companion doesn't even have any gear on it. So no, Barbarians right now are on easy street.
Ok, and there may or may not have been a lot of changes since you played your warlock? Perhaps do an overall dps comparison after the next patch with both characters at lvl 80 with the same environment (variables). When preview first introduced mod 16 it was tough for everyone. So comparing said characters at different time frames is comparing apples to oranges.
Ok, and there may or may not have been a lot of changes since you played your warlock? Perhaps do an overall dps comparison after the next patch with both characters at lvl 80 with the same environment (variables). When preview first introduced mod 16 it was tough for everyone. So comparing said characters at different time frames is comparing apples to oranges.
Sorry, I should have clarified, I'm comparing as of today and this current patch.
I know the Barbarian was in a bad state when mod 16 launched on preview. It was officially the worst class in game, poetic really considering they have been basically the best for a long time. Maybe not always top, but easily the best spanning multiple mods.
Sadly that will probably continue to be the case, so much so that I may end up transferring my enchants over from my warlock. The clunkyness that has been demmed the new play style of the warlock plus it's HAMSTER numbers mean you may end up with another axe swinging barbie running around with his finger on the left click button.
Ok, and there may or may not have been a lot of changes since you played your warlock? Perhaps do an overall dps comparison after the next patch with both characters at lvl 80 with the same environment (variables). When preview first introduced mod 16 it was tough for everyone. So comparing said characters at different time frames is comparing apples to oranges.
Sorry, I should have clarified, I'm comparing as of today and this current patch.
I know the Barbarian was in a bad state when mod 16 launched on preview. It was officially the worst class in game, poetic really considering they have been basically the best for a long time. Maybe not always top, but easily the best spanning multiple mods.
Sadly that will probably continue to be the case, so much so that I may end up transferring my enchants over from my warlock. The clunkyness that has been demmed the new play style of the warlock plus it's HAMSTER numbers mean you may end up with another axe swinging barbie running around with his finger on the left click button.
Get out of this thread and give feedback to the warlock one if all you can do is crying about sw and complaining about barbarian damage being too high which is apparently only your case and supposedly just a frustration against gwf
"People that are complaining about the barbarian, shouldn't be. That's the second point."
people are complaining about USELESS FEATS/POWERS AND, BY CONSEQUENCE, A LIMITED PLAYSTYLE. gwfs-destroyers are monsters and have the same limitations.
Would it be possible to make it to where the Blademaster path has 3 offense, 1 defense, 1 enhancement and 1 utility? I feel like as a DPS, having 2 less offense slots limits Barbarian greatly. That could be 8000 power (hatchling) and 4% at-will power. Another thing that would be nice is if Enduring Shout could somehow help with attracting aggro. I know we have good threat generation with Come and Get It but if that is on cooldown I find it difficult to keep aggro of larger groups.
"People that are complaining about the barbarian, shouldn't be. That's the second point."
people are complaining about USELESS FEATS/POWERS AND, BY CONSEQUENCE, A LIMITED PLAYSTYLE. gwfs-destroyers are monsters and have the same limitations.
QFT. The whole objective here was to do away with the One True Build paradigm, and for that to work, there can be no dud powers or trap feats. Powers should be usable without feats to buff them, and feats shouldn't lock you into a specific batch of powers and punish experimentation.
The fact that there's a specific Chosen Build that can pull amazing numbers is... largely tangential to the actual goals.
Since you can't use 5 encounters in the same rotation, I'm assuming at least four weren't being used for the whole run. If it was HD,NsF,As for mobs and HD,IBS,Frenzy for bosses that explains why HD proportion is so high. If they used HD only for bosses (but I can't guess what they used for mobs then), then you'd be right. Mind you, you can still be right and HD being overpowered but you can't tell from the data you showed w/o knowing the rotations used.
That is exactly what I did, Not So Fast+Axestorm on AoE, IBS+Frenzy on single, Daggers all the time, so there was some data being skewed there.
Note that the log was for the entire run, Sharp didn't give me the log to analyze fight by fight (which would have been more interesting I think).
I would guess Axestorm would see a bigger % of damage on AoE fights and Daggers less % on AoE due to Axestorm being very good at oneshotting whole bunches of enemies.
In Master Expeditions, some mobs and bosses use AoE attacks sometimes w/o even displaying red areas. And before confusion arises, by AoE I mean they are facing the tank, I'm on the opposite side, the tank doesn't loose aggro, and I'm getting one-shotted. It's not relevant if it's technically AoE or a back attack, point is an attack that hits people w/o aggro.
As long as that happens, you can't stay close to the mob, hence you can use atwills only occasionally.
No, I'm with you there on some of the more "interesting" attack ranges and not being able to At-will 24/7.
I can definitely see, on the bosses (especially 2), waiting for cooldowns wasn't as bad when the huge rock hitboxes made it near impossible to rotate, I pretty much tossed out Daggers, Raged, IBSed, hit a few At-wills, then ran away to dodge.
I was very worried asterdahl (and/or noworries) would just hit the nerf button and not try to keep Barbie in its competitive DPS state while making adjustments.
Thank you for your reply, I'm glad to see we're on the same page here. I'm worried that our new acquired role of tank drags us to being both a lower tier tank and DPS.
But I'm also worried about the playstyle. I'd not like at all for the Barbarian to turn into a mage/shaman kind of char: right now we already have our share of long distance magical attacks (although of course their damage kind is physical). Some of them don't even look like melee powers (Axestorm I'm looking at you: a wave of magical axes appearing from nowhere hitting from far away). The old GWF was a cqc beast with most damage coming from physical hits (with damage type matching visual animations). Even daring shout had a physical feeling to it: I always used it to reply to beast roars (even when not strictly necessary rotation-wise, it was a small cool nod to role playing).
If we now need to always keep our distance, spend time running left and right, in fact wasting time while our encounters exit from cd, hit from far away or use a hit & run tactic, well that's a huge change in gameplay. Our damage output is irrelevant here. Last week my Axestorm could oneshot gorilla groups in Omu, yet I didn't like it. On live I don't oneshot them, I whack them with atwills, it takes longer but then I can move to the next group seamlessly. On preview, I have to pause between groups. It's a different feeling.
Comments
[Combat (Self)] Your Bloodletter deals 435339 (465748) Physical Damage to you.
I don't know if it's a bug but It's unusable at this point.
We are close ranged and we can't survive anything without a self heal, a healer cant baby seat you all the time, and we cant dodge everything because our dash is slow, you took away our additional hp (which is an alternative form of healing) and our life steal now damage us, even with the recommended amount of defense and reflection, I get destroyed if anything get nears me, which is counter-intuitive since again, we are a close ranged class.
Problem number 3, every since this game was released (and I was there to say) GWF was ALWAYS about at wills, you cant just take away and thing its okay, its not. I know that the concept of mod 16 is skills doing more damage and at wills not so much, but that SHOULD NOT APPLY TO US, its like taking healing away from cleric or the shield away from fighter, its the foundation of our class, you can give skills that hitkill any boss, it will not be same, since the essence from my character were taken away, everything I do now when I'm playing in mod 16 is using skills and running away until my skills are off cd, which is the total opposite of what I do on mod 15, I mark targets, buff my self, use unstoppable and spam at wills, you literally inverted everything, and that is what makes sad the most.
About destroyer, okay, what you said make sense, BUT did you increased our base damage by the amount it used to give? It was NOT a 9% damage increase, it was a 62% damage increase because of destroyer purpose and focused destroyer, if you did that, its a bug and consider this part red text, if not, you just missed it and I'm bringing it to your attention.
I'm not kidding or exaggerating, I'm actually considering starting all over again because of this changes, if wanted to stay away, spam skills and run around until they are off CD, I would play wizard or warlock. Thank you for your time answering me tho.
Healing effect if Vorpal hits first
Healing effect if Bloodletter hits first
Dmg effect with Bloodspiller with WE's
Not So Fast will execute twice in a row if the button is pressed fast enough. However if he stops pressing it for a second during the first execution it will not activate a second time.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1690475858
I only have 250k health at 20k ilvl. The bonus magnitude from Hidden Daggers seems to apply to yourself as well.
Also, Mightier Leap says "allows its immediate reuse" but I'm experiencing a 1.5-2 second delay before the skill becomes available again that I can't attribute to lag since all of the other powers seem to be working immediately
As an edit, bonus damage from Hidden Daggers seems to apply to mobs missed by Axestorm due to terrain differences, so something's only half-working in the code.
feedback:
tier 1:
Relenthess speed: plus the main bonus, should include a 50% of chance to hit again, and again, and again that encounter.
mightier leap: lets be pratical... no single person like that "instigator vibe"; improve to 600 magnitude+some radius buff/tremour effect and done.
Tier 2… i really wanted to see that kind of mechanic added to every single target encounter, maybe by a class feature or something like that.
tier 3: not a real choice here.
tier 4: looks like instigator feats that no single person wanted.
roar dont build enough rage, battle fury still on garbage (two destroyer powers... bad idea) and so on.
The play style is smooth as silk so far, damage from my level 70 Barbie at wills is higher than my level 80 warlock at wills and my encounters are critting for over 100k, so I'm like, please, do not complain that you have things hard over here.
If anything, the Barbie needs to be nerfed. Admittedly, I'm only Level 71 right now and maybe things will change in the higher level zones but right now my undergeared Barbarian is slaughtering everything in sight. And it's mostly just sure strike and IBS. My companion doesn't even have any gear on it. So no, Barbarians right now are on easy street.
Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
I know the Barbarian was in a bad state when mod 16 launched on preview. It was officially the worst class in game, poetic really considering they have been basically the best for a long time. Maybe not always top, but easily the best spanning multiple mods.
Sadly that will probably continue to be the case, so much so that I may end up transferring my enchants over from my warlock. The clunkyness that has been demmed the new play style of the warlock plus it's HAMSTER numbers mean you may end up with another axe swinging barbie running around with his finger on the left click button.
Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
The Barbarian right now feels overpowered for the zones I am running in. That's the first point.
People that are complaining about the barbarian, shouldn't be. That's the second point.
Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
then go ahead, prove yours point with an ACT comparison.
people are complaining about USELESS FEATS/POWERS AND, BY CONSEQUENCE, A LIMITED PLAYSTYLE. gwfs-destroyers are monsters and have the same limitations.
Another thing that would be nice is if Enduring Shout could somehow help with attracting aggro. I know we have good threat generation with Come and Get It but if that is on cooldown I find it difficult to keep aggro of larger groups.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
The whole objective here was to do away with the One True Build paradigm, and for that to work, there can be no dud powers or trap feats.
Powers should be usable without feats to buff them, and feats shouldn't lock you into a specific batch of powers and punish experimentation.
The fact that there's a specific Chosen Build that can pull amazing numbers is... largely tangential to the actual goals.
But I'm also worried about the playstyle. I'd not like at all for the Barbarian to turn into a mage/shaman kind of char: right now we already have our share of long distance magical attacks (although of course their damage kind is physical). Some of them don't even look like melee powers (Axestorm I'm looking at you: a wave of magical axes appearing from nowhere hitting from far away). The old GWF was a cqc beast with most damage coming from physical hits (with damage type matching visual animations). Even daring shout had a physical feeling to it: I always used it to reply to beast roars (even when not strictly necessary rotation-wise, it was a small cool nod to role playing).
If we now need to always keep our distance, spend time running left and right, in fact wasting time while our encounters exit from cd, hit from far away or use a hit & run tactic, well that's a huge change in gameplay. Our damage output is irrelevant here. Last week my Axestorm could oneshot gorilla groups in Omu, yet I didn't like it. On live I don't oneshot them, I whack them with atwills, it takes longer but then I can move to the next group seamlessly. On preview, I have to pause between groups. It's a different feeling.