Official M16: Barbarian Feedback

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  • themule#2469
    themule#2469 Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    drumon88 said:

    Second feat lower choice "Bloodspiller" refers to the ability Bloodspiller ("Increase the magnitude of Bloodspiller by 900 and causes Bloodspiller to deal damage to you"). No such power. I assume it is supposed to refer to Bloodletter.

    Bloodletter's tooltipe does not update its listed magnitude when choosing this feat, although the damage increase is readily apparent in combat.


    So we lose even more survivability by giving up our only self-heal AND dealing damage to ourselves to gain the only attack with a significant magnitude? The first choice in the feats (Relentless Speed vs. Mightier Leap) is pretty pointless as neither of these abilities will see any use once Hidden Daggers becomes unlocked. Not a fan of this change to the feats.

    Well, Bloodspiller easily turns into a troll feat:
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Bloodletter deals 540128 (491025) Physical Damage to Forgotten Totemist.
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Vorpal Weapon deals 27006 (24551) Arcane Damage to Forgotten Totemist.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Bloodletter deals 280833 (540128) Physical Damage to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Vorpal Weapon deals 14042 (27006) Arcane Damage to you.

    I have about 210k HPs, so the feat should be renamed 'Suicide Tendencies'. I barely survive when it doesn't crit. If it crits, I'm dead. The example above was a simple combo of Not so fast followed by Bloodletter (with Trample the fallen and Barbed Strikes as passive). CA active I believe, and most likely, the Totemist was debuffed by my tiger. I don't know exaclty what effects are counted in the figures 540128 (491025), that's a flat +10%, and 491k is high as base damage for sure. Maybe that's the actual damage and the damage prior to the application of external buffs (the tiger), but all the internal ones counted in.

    Anyway. Even assuming I can fix that by increasing my defence, I still wonder what happens when in a party... I have more buffs, hence I deal more damage, am I receiving increased damage as well?

    My point being, it's hard to make sense of it:
    - solo? nope we lack sustainable self healing capabilities, loosing health is not a good idea 99% of the times;
    - in a party? as a hard hitting power for bosses, when I'm fully buffed? almost certain suicide;
    - should I stack defensive stats like crazy in order to survive it? well that feels more like something that belongs to Sentinels, not Blademasters.


    Edit: as a second thought, it makes sense if you see the Barbarian as a tank mainly with a DPS option. Everything else tuned as a tank (equip, companions, etc), you switch from Sentinel to Blademaster then Bloodspiller might make sense: you put all your defence (that you already have) into use for extra damage.
  • gestrisa
    gestrisa Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Just my opinionated feedback on the Blademaster boons after trying them out. I'll go about it per column.

    1. The pair of feats are somewhat weak IMO. I feel like mightier leap has a niche application (quick way to close the gap at long distances). But for Relentless Speed, it kind of feels meh. The 5% chance feels abysmal and trying it out, I don't think I'd ever slot this in even in situations where there are lots of additional mobs since I already have better AoE options: Axethrow, hidden daggers + relentless slash . Perhaps give it a larger radius and small increase in magnitude? And instead of it being 5% chance how about it becomes "after 10 at-will hits" it restores cd to give it more consistency?

    2. Feats at the 2nd column are actually good. So far I really have nothing to say much about it except for decreasing Bloodspill's recoil damage. It feels like if the player get's a strong fully buffed crit hit, could ironically kill the toon itself. Perhaps change the recoil damage to percentage of max HP just to be on the safer side -> this would also make it easier to estimate when and when not to use it. I would have preferred that Bloodletter be NOT the skill that was affected since it's already got a niche usage of emergency healing.

    3. 3rd set is pretty Ok. Although I'd find myself favoring overpenetration than brutal critical since critical strikes aren't what they used to be.

    4. 4th set is also good. Unstoppable spin provides good progression to Battlerage saving a few ms but my issue is that Sure Slam is by far IMO the superior choice. Both Spinning Strike and Avalanche already have equal magnitude but Avalanche has added crowd control and can actually buy time for a Barbarian's cooldowns to finish while protected. The increased movement speed bonus and saving few seconds entering into Battlerage feels like it won't cut it. Perhaps include unstoppable spin also modify spinning strike to give a party wide buff? Right now there's a clear winner to choose between these two.

    5. I love the asymmetry between these two last feats. It allows for different playstyles. Relentless Battlerage goes for consistency while Escalating Rage encourages bursting. I do however have a nitpick with Escalting Rage, some people are probably gonna say the 3 second needs to go but if you devs are adding this to balance it, then please give Escalting Rage's buff a visual cue when it's ready like Super Saiyan aura or something obvious to spot as it's very easy to get lost in the heat of the moment with (so many vfx for powers especially at queues, hard to keep trackof my toon's buffs) and not time battlerage properly. There's also the problem of crit strikes are chance based so there's a level of inconsistency there also.
  • greyjay1
    greyjay1 Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Since people reported weird damage numbers for the barb, so I tested them a bit.

    Blademaster IBS at 20 str with a wooden test weapon deals 733 dmg
    =>733/700 = 1.047143 multi from str

    Sentinal deals 1612 dmg in the same setup
    1612/1.04714 = 1539.42680
    1539.42680/700 = 2.19918
    2.19918/0.7 = 3.14169

    So, Sentinal deals ~PI times as much damage as it should, hurray. :#
  • thefabricant
    thefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    greyjay1 said:

    Since people reported weird damage numbers for the barb, so I tested them a bit.

    Blademaster IBS at 20 str with a wooden test weapon deals 733 dmg
    =>733/700 = 1.047143 multi from str

    Sentinal deals 1612 dmg in the same setup
    1612/1.04714 = 1539.42680
    1539.42680/700 = 2.19918
    2.19918/0.7 = 3.14169

    So, Sentinal deals ~PI times more dmg than intended, hurray. :#

    The class sounds well rounded.
  • ryonas
    ryonas Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 158 Arc User

    ok i am not barabarian main but i went with barabarian sentinal and just let me ask this

    Sentinal Barbarian damage output is just absurd for tank with one encounter to drop my guard fully which is 400k hp
    And the heals you keep hitting hitting and then fully heals and reflects over 400K HP with Bloodletter is this normal ?

    I know this is not final and numbers will be changed but the design concept itself needs to be looked at.

    Some will say stats him was 21k arp and i was 30k defense


    It is on steroids for a tank

    here just for example
    ===
    [Combat (Self)] Your Bloodletter gives 403095 Hit Points to you.


    Primal Fury
    ==
    the barbarian himself said should not be on it and it is too much for sentinal


    Also on PVP
    ==
    Companions active bonuses are in effect skyblade kobold is effective on pvp
    Skyblade kobold works on dailies such as cresendo


    if this rolls to live i am 500% parking my paladin and rolling a barabarian
  • gromovnipljesak#8234
    gromovnipljesak#8234 Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User

    greyjay1 said:

    Since people reported weird damage numbers for the barb, so I tested them a bit.

    Blademaster IBS at 20 str with a wooden test weapon deals 733 dmg
    =>733/700 = 1.047143 multi from str

    Sentinal deals 1612 dmg in the same setup
    1612/1.04714 = 1539.42680
    1539.42680/700 = 2.19918
    2.19918/0.7 = 3.14169

    So, Sentinal deals ~PI times more dmg than intended, hurray. :#

    The class sounds well rounded.
    That's just a roundabout way to compliment the class.
  • schietindebux
    schietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    I happened to come to same results on preview, but as it looks it´s only that path of one class, seems to be severly bugged.
    Sent. GWF was the first I tested being upset afterwards, but then realized it´s not all other classes, other classes/path seem to be more in line like GF, CW as far as I know.
  • drumon88
    drumon88 Member Posts: 142 Arc User
    Can now routinely 1-shot myself in lvl 80 content with Bloodletter+Bloodspiller feat, both open-world and instance.

    Need to scale the self-damage to 10% or less of what it currently is to make this feat even remotely usable. Hit a mob for 200k and do 400k damage to myself, great design there...
  • klayl771
    klayl771 Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    Quote by gestrisa
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    4. 4th set is also good. Unstoppable spin provides good progression to Battlerage saving a few ms but my issue is that Sure Slam is by far IMO the superior choice. Both Spinning Strike and Avalanche already have equal magnitude but Avalanche has added crowd control and can actually buy time for a Barbarian's cooldowns to finish while protected. The increased movement speed bonus and saving few seconds entering into Battlerage feels like it won't cut it. Perhaps include unstoppable spin also modify spinning strike to give a party wide buff? Right now there's a clear winner to choose between these two.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Unstoppable Spin should make rage go to full everytime Spinning Strike is activated so Battlerage would come on at the start of Spinning strike everytime, this be cool.

    Also Adamantine Strike Should be added to Unstoppable Spin(rename ofcourse), because you wont use Adamantine Strike if is not modified in some way(activating Adamantine Strike should make rage go to full aswell and Battlerage comes on, if added).
  • ltsmithneko
    ltsmithneko Member Posts: 1,578 Arc User
    klayl771 said:

    BladeMaster Feats

    The forth row feats is very cool, But Unstoppable Spin feat need to include Adamantine Strike(with added mag).
    The third row feats, replace Brutal Critical feat with Offensive Recovery(with is the last row feat of the last built, and is properly one of the most interesting feat).
    The second row feats are ok.
    The last row feats, the stun from Escalating Rage feat need to be gone and the penalty from Relentless battle rage need to be gone.
    The first row feats i don't know.

    Well the stun effect can be countered if you regain the stacks once again during Rage state if the 20 sec was to disappear during it.



    This'll show all the ways the feat works.
  • ltsmithneko
    ltsmithneko Member Posts: 1,578 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    For those that just wanna see what they do.(definitely still need some work on quite a few of em.)
    Blademaster



    I'd say about 5-6 of them for Blademaster need some work.


    Feat 1

    Terrible feat since A it only effects a single power, limiting the feat outright, and benefitting a power that needs to be looked at eventually. B it revolves around a currently buggy at-will that makes it practically useless due to that animation bug, also you likely want two At-wills tied to its triggering effect.

    vs

    Once a again a pretty poor feat, only effecting a single power, and a power that'd need to be looked at to be useful in anyway, I can't see this feat ever helping except for getting out of the map a bit faster, hue.


    Feat 2

    Alright feat for what it does, but once again quite limiting to a single power.

    vs

    Alright feat with exception to once again limiting to a single power along with the ya know killing your self portion(forgot to show that in da vid)


    Feat 3

    I like this feat, since were not going to be short on Armor penetration sources it's quite pleasant

    vs

    I don't mind the thought of a rage gaining feat since it's not limiting like the others fast hitting powers like Sure Strike should make good use of it.

    Feat 4

    Nice to have extended Rage, but I don't think limiting it to only Spinning Strike is a great thing, I've never been a big fan on the daily due to how long it takes to cast n' finish and it being tick dmg building up.

    vs

    Nice visual yet once more only effects one power(slam should be in this path and it should effect that too) This daily is one that needs to be replaced or worked on quite a bit to actually give it purpose its current state makes it probably the Barbarians worst daily due to the cast time(time not spent dealing dmg).



    Feat 5

    Overall a nice feat being that you can cancel out the stun effect if you regain the stacks prior to rage running out, along with sprinting will cause the stun to be negated and state immune since it's a soft stun effect.

    vs

    Decent feat except the negative effect may draw people away from it, but I can see it working out pretty decently.




    Sentinel




    It only costs 29 rage per cast, hence why you'll see me use the power three times instead of two back to back.

    Post edited by ltsmithneko on
  • themule#2469
    themule#2469 Member Posts: 26 Arc User

    Hi @asterdahl

    I have 2 things in my mind that I think should be changed.

    1) At-wills dmg is just absurd, there is no reason to even use them. Damage should definitely be at least 100% higher (as a counterpart encounters should be dealing less to balance the overall dps.

    Unfortunately, no. That's how the old GWF used to be. Now, for any but the easiest content, you have to avoid all red areas. We have no dodge (invulnerability) like the other classes, so we have to move away from them, not just dodge. When you're busy moving around you can't skill at-wills. It's all wasted potential dps.
    In order to have serious at wills, we also need some tankiness, but all the tankiness is now moved to the Sentinel path. So, strong at-wills may be an option for Sentinels, not for Blademasters, who are now kinda of glass cannons.
  • ltsmithneko
    ltsmithneko Member Posts: 1,578 Arc User

    Hi @asterdahl

    I have 2 things in my mind that I think should be changed.

    1) At-wills dmg is just absurd, there is no reason to even use them. Damage should definitely be at least 100% higher (as a counterpart encounters should be dealing less to balance the overall dps.

    Unfortunately, no. That's how the old GWF used to be. Now, for any but the easiest content, you have to avoid all red areas. We have no dodge (invulnerability) like the other classes, so we have to move away from them, not just dodge. When you're busy moving around you can't skill at-wills. It's all wasted potential dps.
    In order to have serious at wills, we also need some tankiness, but all the tankiness is now moved to the Sentinel path. So, strong at-wills may be an option for Sentinels, not for Blademasters, who are now kinda of glass cannons.
    Our At-will dmg comes from dagger effect dmg now at least for Sure Strike. : P
  • rapidstar#3272
    rapidstar#3272 Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    @themule Ok I kinda agree, but not every enemy has area damage and when your encounters are on cooldown you are just useless. And even if the enemy has area damage it isnt going to be using it all the time. Another thing is that I dont like the idea of "avoid every red zone", youre just gonna be running around which seems boring to me so I think even the DPS paragon should be a little tanky (not in a way that you can tank a whole group of mobs).
    Btw I havent tested any dungeon after the patch so idk how much you actually have to avoid red zones.
  • klayl771
    klayl771 Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    rafamarques#5700 said:

    improve radius of might leap/ avalanch of steel flying for only 3 secs+move speed should be great too. other thing is... is possible use the old execution animation ibs to all ibs blows, adding some damage o other effecto to that?

    ltsmithneko Said: Avalanch of steel

    Nice visual yet once more only effects one power. This daily is one that needs to be replaced or worked on quite a bit to actually give it purpose its current state makes it probably the Barbarians worst daily due to the cast time(time not spent dealing dmg).

    This be nice.
  • themule#2469
    themule#2469 Member Posts: 26 Arc User


    Unfortunately, no. That's how the old GWF used to be. Now, for any but the easiest content, you have to avoid all red areas. We have no dodge (invulnerability) like the other classes, so we have to move away from them, not just dodge. When you're busy moving around you can't skill at-wills. It's all wasted potential dps.
    In order to have serious at wills, we also need some tankiness, but all the tankiness is now moved to the Sentinel path. So, strong at-wills may be an option for Sentinels, not for Blademasters, who are now kinda of glass cannons.

    That is actually wrong, our tankines was mostly irrelevant in m15, because of lifesteal and Defense everyone could've stacked it, i would say we are tankier now than we were before.
    That's not what I'm experiencing. I keep dying because due to slow and uninterruptible animations you can't run from red areas in time: once you commit to a power, be it atwill or encounter, mobs have all the time in the world to place a red area under your feet, go have some tea and biscuits, get back and you're still halfway of your animation. Even after you're done with the animation, there's a 2 seconds lag before you can sprint again. The right way to play blademaster now is to keep moving around waiting for long range encounters to exit cd, and hit with those from far away. If you get close and try close range atwills or encounters, you die.

  • themule#2469
    themule#2469 Member Posts: 26 Arc User

    @themule Ok I kinda agree, but not every enemy has area damage and when your encounters are on cooldown you are just useless. And even if the enemy has area damage it isnt going to be using it all the time. Another thing is that I dont like the idea of "avoid every red zone", youre just gonna be running around which seems boring to me so I think even the DPS paragon should be a little tanky (not in a way that you can tank a whole group of mobs).
    Btw I havent tested any dungeon after the patch so idk how much you actually have to avoid red zones.

    Just to clarify. I'm not advocating for the way things are now. I'm just saying that asking for better atwills isn't going to help much if we can't use them.

    And btw, yes pretty much any notable enemy has area damage, and will use it quite often. Maybe you didn't notice before because as a GWF you usually care only of very few selected red areas, the rest you just ignore. And that's what allows you to deliver significant damage with your atwills.

    If you want to do some serious testing, do Master Expeditions with 2-3 attuned crystals.

  • obsidiancran3
    obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Blood Fury feat refers to the Blood Fury power, this seems like it should refer to Primal Fury and doesn't actually heal anything at all.

    In the power bar Bloodletter shows a rage cost of 40, but doesn't have a rage cost.


    Initial impressions for Sentinel.

    Power changes look interesting, and I'm looking forward to trying them out.

    Feats: All the problems.

    The design goals we are told cause the changes are to remove trap choices. Unless you have changed the meaning of the term "trap choices" all of these feats meet at least one of the criteria for being a "trap choice", that is choosing the feat locks you into using a power to maximize the value of the feat, even if the power isn't the best choice. Locking players into powers also is counter to the other design goal of freeing up player choice (by making the choices more equal).

    Leap Into Action (Mighty Leap)
    Frustrating Slash (Sentinel's Slash)
    - I don't like either power. Perhaps if Sentinel's Slash didn't have a lag after you released it I would consider its feat. But I see Challenger's Slash as the better power in general because of how quickly it puts threat out (because of cast times it puts out nearly as much threat as the buffed slash).
    Will take Leap Into Action because it will help more in group content, when I might run Mighty for that threat buff...but really 6s?

    Sure Slash (Sure Strike might buff Bounding Slam) - ARRGGHH it locks both your at wills in!
    Indomitable Might (IBS) - Well I guess this is good for solo play at least. IBS will nearly hit as hard as Smite, but still cast only every 13s....hmm what?
    - Took Indomitable because it was the least wasteful

    Disarming Takedown - (Takedown Strike)
    On the Move (Not So Fast)
    - While the speed boost for the party is nice, I'll be stiking with Disarming Takedown. The feat makes the power better in solo and group play. Its the first feat that I feel hits the "worth a power lock" level of a feat, because 10% extra damage on bosses is a big deal for Thief, Ranger, Fighter and Barbarian. Sure its not ideal, but if all the other party members are doing Magic damage, at least its helping you keep aggro on the boss by buffing your damage.

    Extended Unstoppable - (Come and Get It)
    Blood Fury (Primal Fury ?)
    - So hard to tell with these 2, I lean towards Extended Unstoppable because it is a small benefit without a cost. I'm not even sure, reading it, that Blood Fury really has a benefit.
    - Took Blood Fury to test it.

    Crushing Advance (Savage Advance)
    Undying Instinct (Primal Instinct)
    - A debuff that also reduces power utility or a small immortality frame that also speeds up the cooldown on the daily...
    - Took Undying Instinct because at least that might be useful, depending on what the "ignore Undying Instinct" powers are of course.

    Basically I fee like all but one of these (Disarming Takedown) is a bad choice and irrelevant to play.

    Feats should work to support the class role of the Paragon path, as they are locked to paragon paths, and not lock players into specific powers. For tanks the dynamic should ultimately be the choice of more damage and less threat (good for solo) or more threat and durability (good for group).

    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • obsidiancran3
    obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    Something odd going on with Unstoppable or very strange going on in Waning Darkness.

    [Combat (Self)] Your Unstoppable absorbs 0 damage from Vampire's Slash.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Unstoppable absorbs 20122 damage from Vampire's Slash.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Unstoppable absorbs 0 damage from Vampire's Slash.
    [Combat (Self)] Vampire deals 26214 (11605) Physical Damage to you with Slash.
    [Combat (Self)] Vampire deals 44757 (11209) Physical Damage to you with Slash.

    I died shortly after with Stamina still showing and Unstoppable still up.

    Obsidian Sword is the character (she seems unlikely to change much).
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • obsidiancran3
    obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Nevermind, it seems my 2 missing Bonding Stones were missing before I started Waning Darkness, with all 3 it was totally doable, and things felt better.
    Post edited by obsidiancran3 on
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • rjc9000
    rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,398 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    Bugs:

    -The Unstoppable Spin feat doesn't activate if you are using the Wyvern Eye set (you get the Wyvern Rune drop but no Rage). Haven't tried the other Mod 16 sets, but I am guessing any of the other Mod 16 sets also bug this feat..
    -Relentless Slash seems to have some spazzing issues when I held down the attack button, similar to the issues on the HR's Rapid Strike
    -It was briefly possible to get two Relentless Slash icons on my buffbar. I have no clue how to reproduce it and I don't even know if means that you get the buff twice
    - I have no clue how I even got the Brash Strike artifact bonus on a testing weapon, but it happened only to my Barbie and none of my other classes.





    Feedback

    -Raging Strikes: Rewrite the tooltip so how the effect works is clearer, in addition to possibly upgrading the damage bonus to something like 7.5%.

    I was not honestly sure how the thing works due to the vague tooltip. I only noticed it worked by whacking a dummy without the class feature and then whacking it a whole bunch of time with the class features.

    -Brash Strike: Find a new animation, or increase the swinging speed (yes, even considering rage), or dramatically increase the magnitude (something like 110).

    This power feels awful to use and is not worth using, given how good Hidden Daggers is. I think most of the issue is the swinging speed, emphasized with the pause between the animations of the first and second hits. If the power was a bit faster (even considering Rage) and/or dealt more damage relative to it animation, I think it would possibly dethrone Sure Strike as the go-to single target At-will.

    If you plan to replace the animation, I'd suggest reusing the Sunsword's 3 hit At-will, as that one feels good to use (even though Sunsword's spinning at-will is far better...).
    Post edited by rjc9000 on

  • rafamarques#5700
    rafamarques#5700 Member Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    About feets

    I loved the tier 4 (dps patch), but looks wrong you have a tier of feets that you need choose between a power A vs power B.

    For example, that tier 2: A boosted restoring strike w/o a heal factor are not a true antagonist of a single target ibs. Both are… heavy single targets powers. You can not adjust both "bonus and onus" in a same feet or even class feature"? <<single targets encounters do more damage now, but you take some damage back based in how low is your rage>>

    Iam ignoring how good or bad that feets can be, what you need here is a real antagonism between a playstyle A vs playstyle B. that kind or thing is really clear, and only clear, in the last tier.

    Dps vs burst? Sustained damage dealer vs glass cannon? Sacrifice some mechanicals rules to improve others? I think that is the kind of choice that class need.

    ps:sprint looks a obsolete mechanic. sacrifice your shift command for some new bonus or bring some defensive bonus to that shift command is the kind of choice that we need.
  • lazaroth666
    lazaroth666 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    As I mentioned before, I understand that each feat should not be powerful but it is very important that the core of the class has some interesting class features in terms of what they offer either by utility or damage.

    Some class features are better than the previous ones but they only offer damage. "Raging Strikes" could be improved, it would be better if it were something like: "You have Combat Advantage vs enemies when you are under the effect of Battlerage". "Steel Blitz" is better than before but it's bugged. It's replicating the damage by the enchantment you're using and not the power that activates it. For example, if I'm using Vorpal, it does a "Steel Blitz" of the vorpal's arcane damage. By removing the enchantment from the weapon, it effectively makes an At-Will proc as intended. "Barbed Strikes is fine, pure damage. "Impatience" seems unnecessary, there are already too many class features related to Battlerage. It would be more interesting "Your daily powers have a reduced AP cost" or "you gain more AP when using powers" and it adjusts thematically to impatience.

    Concerning feats. I understand that you seek to generate new ways of playing. For example, using "Relentless Speed" in conjunction with "Not so fast" and "Trample the Fallen" would be a decent combo but then increase the radius of "Not so fast". Make sure "Trample the Fallen" applies to the initial hit of "Not so fast" (it doesn't currently). "Mightier Leap" cannot be used properly in combat. It is designed to be used when starting a fight but your damage will be very low as you will not have any damage bonus active. It would be more useful to activate it when doing damage to enemies as opposed to the current requirement of not doing damage to any, effectively giving two charges to this power making it possible for the player to decide between using it twice vs the same enemies or attacking and moving to a next point.

    "Indomitable Rage" simply more damage for IBS. Now "Bloodspiller" is interesting. The self-damage activates certain enchantments and companions powers which could generate interesting results in the future with better items, it would be necessary to place a cap of 10% of maximum health. However, despite that utility, removing the healing component and adding more damage is not enough as it is very similar to IBS or "Frenzy" which have similar damage without the disadvantage. Something like "Every time you self-harm with "Bloodspiller" you gain stacks of "Random Generic Name" each stacks grants you a % of life steal/power/CA, etc up to a maximum number of stacks. It is interesting and fits the Berserker theme.

    "Overpenetration" is okay. Easy way to gain 10% more damage. "Brutal Critical" there's no way this can compete with the previous one. Besides, it's not working.

    "Steel Slam" looks good, the problem lies in "Avalanch of Steel" this Daily Power is very slow and basically generates a loss of damage. Damage immunity is not necessary for the blademaster. I suggest to add to this feat "Casting time reduced by 4 seconds". So, basically, the character jumps and lands immediately on the same point. "Unstoppable Spin" I'm not a fan of "Spinning Strike". Low damage, control immunity doesn't always work, a lot of DPS is lost when using it as there are other better options. The feat doesn't help much and you must use it with the maximum Battlerage for the feat to work. It would be more interesting if after using "Spinning Strike" with any amount of Rage, you were given the use of a full Battlerage plus the additional seconds.

    Finally, "Escalating Rage" and "Relentless Battlerage" seek to generate the choice between building rage slower but longer lasting or building rage faster at the cost of having a smaller increase in damage during Battlerage. Which of the two is better depends on the scenario.

    I would like to conclude by pointing out that not just a feat makes an At-Will/Encounter/Daily Power good or not to be used. No matter how good it is, if the power to be used feels bad, it is not fluid, if mechanically it is too clunky or even if it is simply not fun, it will not be used. That's what happens with powers like "Avalanche of Steel".


    Steel Blitz isn't working as intended, explained above.

    Relentless Slash's animation gets stuck after the first two uses while holding the mouse button.

    fkze9t.jpg
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  • asterdahl
    asterdahl Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 1,258 Cryptic Developer

    asterdahl said:

    @asterdahl
    Sentinel's Slash, i am not sure that you want any of the Barbarians to see them using this atwill and animation cancel it and obtain the effects of the atwill, i mean like i said you used Sentinel's Slash -> Block -> Sentinel's Slash -> Block->Sentinel's Slash -> Block -> Sentinel's Slash -> Block , it feels like a cheap move, i really do feel that this At-will is out of place, that's it, its your choice on how you do it.

    Avalanche Of Steel, you might say that it feels out of place for Sentinel, but not really, its the only Daily that offers us Immunity frames, if i am out of Stamina, or in a bad situation as a TANK i could use that to get out of bad situation, sure you can leave it on Blademaster's but at the end of the day it is counter productive with how the class builds stacks, buffs and everything, because the Daily duration is quite long, and by the time you hit your enemies your buffs will be gone, this is why i think it's a daily used in a Defensive manner, and shouldn't be used on the Blademaster's, feels way better in the Sentinel's path, feels more natural to me.

    Thanks for the feedback! I did not understand your original post, apologies, I thought you were referring to the block effect of Sentinel's Slash, not animation canceling it with block. I will look into it and make the necessary adjustments.

    In regards to Avalanche of Steel, when I said it couldn't fit into the Sentinel's kit, it wasn't that I didn't think a tank would want it, we would really not like to give tanks immunity frames, as they can invalidate mechanics that should otherwise be very difficult for tanks and healers.

    For crescendo, I feel like it has a place now with the damage adjustment, since it has such a high single target magnitude, but I am keeping my eyes open for feedback, and I will definitely consider making further adjustments after this Friday's build!
    Well actually i confess, i tried to lie in my feedback, but i will be honest right now, i dont think Avalanche of Steel is a proper Daily to be used at all, and i do not understand why wouldn't Indomitable Strength and Slam be in the Blademaster's path, it makes the most sense for them. Strongest Damage dailies aren't in the Blademaster's kit.

    If a tank or healer isn't supposed to have immunity frames, what gives the right for a dps to have that, not to mention Avalanche of Steel is a shared daily anyway, so i guess the upcoming patch is going to nerf the immunity frames completly.
    The thing is that DPS are already have immunity frames, so it's not so bad for them to have a daily that takes them out of combat and gives them more immunity frames. Because if they avoid some hard hitting tank buster from a boss and still have threat when they land they should get taken out quickly by subsequent auto attacks.

    I actually have decided for now not to nerf the immunity frames but instead move Avalanche of Steel to Blademaster, that change should have been in this week's build. In regards to there being strong damaging dailies in the Sentinel tree, that also should have changed this build, with Sentinel instead gaining access to defensive dailies.
  • asterdahl
    asterdahl Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 1,258 Cryptic Developer
    karamekos said:

    asterdahl said:

    drumon88 said:

    I have to say with the changes in encounter recovery times its more annoying than ever to hit a button and have an encounter fire when it has no target, especially with encounters like Bloodletter and Takedown.

    IBS has been bad about this for as long as I've been playing, even when fighting a group of mobs before me it will often simply "miss" everything. Wasn't the end of the world in mod15 due to the comparatively short cooldown and comparatively excellent survivability and comparatively excellent other sources of damage, but for what equates to HALF of all damage done in a fight simply whiffing for no apparent reason coupled with a huge cooldown, it feels pretty bad and runs a very real risk of getting you killed in a lot of places right now due to the "you have 8 seconds to kill them or they will kill you" thing they have going.
    I've considered making some changes to these powers so that they actually require a valid target. That wouldn't prevent them from being legitimately dodged such as in PvP, but you'd no longer be able to swing them at nothing. How would people prefer if their powers were to change in that way?
    Is the potential problem that multiple targets in front of the attacker confuse the targeting mechanic and instead of picking a valid target(s), the targeting mechanic fails to target any? Would a viable alternative be to "widen" the window of what the system considers valid targets (I apologize for the non-technical term "widen") on an IBS attack to recognize anything in front of the barbarian as valid targets? If there's no problem with the targeting mechanic, I see being unable to use the attack until a valid target is available as a positive change. If the change is made to require a valid target for an IBS attack, another thought on sequencing would be that the damage would need to be applied to the valid target(s) by the IBS attack before a mechanic like sprinting would remove the valid target status. Again, I apologize for lacking the proper technical vocabulary but hope my comments are still understandable.
    Hi Karamekos, thanks for your interest in the proposed change to target acquisition for IBS. I struggled to follow your questions but I think you are asking about how things like dodging would relate to IBS if it required a valid target. Dodging wouldn't change, if a valid target is required for IBS, but the target dodges as the swing is happening, immunity frames will prevent damage.

    You just wouldn't be able to accidentally activate IBS after an enemy has recently stepped out of range, and by virtue of that change you would not be able to swing IBS with no target at all nearby. (Which I'm not sure why you would want to, but I feel it's worth stating for clarity.) Hope that helps!
  • asterdahl
    asterdahl Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 1,258 Cryptic Developer
    hoverist said:

    It seemed to me, from the barbarian-Blademaster a big problem with survivability in dungeons.
    The speed of movement has become low, which is very difficult to run out of the AOE. Immunity to control in Sprint(Shift) and Battlerage(Tab) does not work. Because of this, it is impossible to avoid enemy attacks. This aggravates the removal of temporary hit points.
    Barbarian is a melee warrior and it should be at melee zone.
    I think that the barbarian needs to return temporary hit points and immunity to control, as well as increase the speed of running.
    And, I hope, about the problems with damage to know.

    Thanks for the feedback Hoverist! Every class got a bit slower by virtue of movement speed being removed as a rating, Barbarian still has access to sprint and in our internal playtests Blademasters still have an easy time outrunning AoEs or enemies when they pull threat. That being said, if control immunity has stopped working that is absolutely a bug, so I'll take a look. We are definitely reviewing the survivability of Blademasters closely so feedback on this subject is welcome.
  • asterdahl
    asterdahl Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 1,258 Cryptic Developer
    davidmoki said:

    I'm sorry but I'm disappointed, this new feats are even worse than last week ones, just... give us the old feat system back, no one were complaining about that and it was just so much better, why would we want feats for weak skills that no one uses? a feat that stuns us is a bad idea, where is my destroyer and destroyer master? since you nerfed at will damage Unstoppable is a pointless class mechanic, especially since you made the additional hp just for the tank path.
    You guys are clearly missing the point on why we play our classes, and this not exclusive to GWF.
    If this changes go to live... there's just no choice, its not fun anymore, so I don't have why to keep playing. :'(

    Hi Davidmoki, thanks for taking a look at the changes on preview from this week. I'm sorry to hear that you're upset with the changes to feats. In regards to why there are feats for "weak skills that no one uses," these feats are designed to allow you to choose for instance, one of the feat choices provides a third option for AoE situations by boosting one of two powers that might not see normal use and making it stronger.

    You can choose the feat for the power that you like more or that generally supports your playstyle. In the case of Mightier Leap vs. Relentless Speed for instance, you can choose an option that involves more moving around the battlefield, or that's more about staying stationary and getting a free AoE every now and then.

    Ultimately, the new feats are focused on providing choices that will change how you play your class, and so I hope you'll give them a try and see how they feel in your rotation. With old feats and class features like destroyer, those class features had things going on at a conceptual level, you were getting stacks of damage for doing things—but these were usually given out when you just did things you were already going to do. Destroyer really didn't change gameplay very much, and in reality if Blademaster needs 9% more damage against groups of enemies, we'd rather simply balance all of Blademaster's AoEs with that in mind, rather than providing an obvious choice that does nothing in terms of gameplay.

    I hope that my explanation makes sense. I do understand it's likely not the response you were looking for. But with that said, if you can, would you care to elaborate on what feats or class features you miss, and what it is you miss about them? How they made playing your Barbarian more exciting?