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Official M16: Paladin Feedback

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  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    edited April 14
    boggo49 said:


    Really? Does anyone here think they could do the present Tales of Old on a mod 16 op, or K team?

    I have tanked Tales of the Old, first attempt, with a pug. I am confident with a good group Tales of Old is still doable.

    K-Team, now you are moving into problems that have nothing to do with the class, but even there I consider some dungeons still doable even despite the crippling problems with scaling.

    Everything after those 2 questions is your personal opinion, not a statement about the class’ effectiveness.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    edited April 14
    benyr said:

    only log into collect my key until either I run out of VIP, the game improves or I lose interest whichever comes first.

    This isn't a decision taken lightly I've spent years and 000's on this game but I simply do not enjoy the game

    That described exactly where I was with the game before Mod 16, I’m way more interested in the game now and have moved back to active play when not on Preview testing...(letting my sub to my replacement game go to waste).
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User


    We are still missing 2 points in DnD stats.


    The simplest solution is to give us +2 to Int. At least then our combat stat starts at 14.

    The better solution is a significant readjustment of the stats

    2 possible arrays:
    Str 8
    Dex 8
    Wis 14
    Con 14
    Int 14
    Cha 16

    or

    Str 8
    Dex 8
    Wis 14
    Con 12
    Int 16
    Cha 16

    Unless Con gets changed to stop working only on base HP and starts giving a meaningful number of HP again.

    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • larc#1138 larc Posts: 10Member Arc User
    boggo49 said:

    ...spending half of the fight backing away with you shield up to regain stamina is about as much fun as watching paint dry)

    As a pretty new OP, the above is a VERY big concern of mine. I've been on preview multiple times and when soloing I'm back-paddling soo much it's embarrassing. When the OP block, I can't really do anything offensive apart from swearing. I think we should at least be able to 'hold the line' better, kiting with the shield up reversing the whole time doesn't make me feel like a tank at all. I usually play in a group with another two dpses but can't see that making any difference when there's a lot of mobs ready to surround and murder you. At least I'm lucky, almost never have to solo any content..
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Posts: 734Member Arc User



    We are still missing 2 points in DnD stats.


    The simplest solution is to give us +2 to Int. At least then our combat stat starts at 14.

    The better solution is a significant readjustment of the stats

    2 possible arrays:
    Str 8
    Dex 8
    Wis 14
    Con 14
    Int 14
    Cha 16

    or

    Str 8
    Dex 8
    Wis 14
    Con 12
    Int 16
    Cha 16

    Unless Con gets changed to stop working only on base HP and starts giving a meaningful number of HP again.

    This @asterdahl. Please fix this! Why are we being penalized?
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
    Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
    Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
    Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
    S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
    T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
    Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
  • leonidrexleonidrex Posts: 394Member Arc User
    just gonna leave it here, entire idea of shield having its own HP while providing no damage resistance is stupid, you cant heal shield so its promoted to let some hits go throught to hit you instead of bloking it.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    You heal the shield by regaining stamina, or use an Eclipse enchant...

    Issues noted while leveling a toon through to level 20.

    Why does Divine Meditation unlock at 14, but Divinity unlocks at level 10?

    The slow cast time on Sacred Weapon is more pronounced at lower levels, where the 15s cast time on Burning Light is about the right duration. Perhaps bringing Sacred Weapon down to 20s will solve some of the problem here with not having 1 of your 2 encounters available half the time?

    The note about using Tab, only applies to sub-Paragon or Oathkeeper.

    The note about Divinity should appear beside the Divinity bar and describe that some spells, like Divine Touch, use Divinity.

    There is no explicit way to gain aggro before level 32! (See also the problem with Sacred Weapon's slow cast time.)
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Posts: 734Member Arc User
    Cleansing touch needs to remove negative effects in an AoE, like in Pre-mod 16. Of the three healers, Oathkeeper is the only one the does not have an ability to remove negative effects from multiple allies.
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
    Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
    Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
    Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
    S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
    T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
    Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    edited April 16
    For companions we have 3 defense, 1 offence and 1 utility.

    Can that be changed to 2 defense, 2 utility and 1 offence?

    That will at least give us more access to powers that are suitable for out class without automatically adding more offence. eg cannot currently run Pseudodragon (stamina regain from at-wills) and Energon (HP) because they are both Utility.

    Yes it would also open up some more offense options for us as well, but given those are mostly going to be raw stats and that is more of a stop gap while you build to cap through other means, it would be much better to have more flexibility in this area.


    This may not be a bug, but in Terminus in particular, when I activate Burning Light a white field with a transparent oval in the middle appears on the screen when I release Burning Light.
    Post edited by obsidiancran3 on
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • skaarl75skaarl75 Posts: 19Member Arc User
    ok, trying to get set up for this to go live, what enchants are you all using? are you going all radiant in def slots for the hp or using a combo gem?
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    skaarl75 said:

    ok, trying to get set up for this to go live, what enchants are you all using? are you going all radiant in def slots for the hp or using a combo gem?

    I've been using Radiants in Offence/Defense except for 1 slot given over to a Tenebrous. Long term I might bother to change some of the Radiants to something like Gigantics. But I'm not in a hurry to do so.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    @bobo#5090 seeing you kindly numbered them, I will answer the ones I can:

    1) I see this as well, you pretty much have to eyeball the numbers yourself. The hit points in particular are very wrong.

    2) There is a feat in Justicar that specifically changes Burning Light's function, if you took that feat it is very much a tap an release power, unless you are taking hits that can move your stamina bar. Otherwise you move from magnitude 200 to 300 for holding for the full duration (so you add your weapon damage a 3rd time) and the stun is shorter than Mod 15.

    4) At level 77 there is a feat that lets you increase the defense effectiveness of Tab, if you run BL, Relentless, and Binding Oath you can start a fight and press Tab and ignore the enemies until your Divinity drops below half. Then press Tab and clean up what is left of the enemies. Repeat at each encounter for solo play. You will need to do some blocking in dungeons still with this approach, but in my experience it works.

    Also Back peddling is a tactical decision as well, you can just raise your shield and eat attacks, you should back peddle only to create a more advantageous situation for you and your team mates (if any).

    7) The difference between weapon enchants is smaller now. Bronzewood is particularly good atm for Tanks, I believe the best of those on your list.

    64k) No, Preview doesn't have every option that is on live, that includes not having all the enchant options.

    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Posts: 734Member Arc User
    Feedback update: Thanks for shifting the priority of the Oathkeepers barriers @asterdahl. Looks like the latest patching has the damage taken by the shield first and then the barrier or simultaneously depending on the angle of the attack. This is most welcome if the Oathkeepers are teamed with their Justicar counterparts. I still have some concerns about barriers reapplying at a lesser value if a current barrier is in place, but at least I don't have to worry about the Justies not getting any divinity regen while I'm trying to "help". :) Many thanks!

    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
    Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
    Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
    Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
    S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
    T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
    Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
  • larc#1138 larc Posts: 10Member Arc User


    Also Back peddling is a tactical decision as well, you can just raise your shield and eat attacks, you should back peddle only to create a more advantageous situation for you and your team mates (if any).

    Damage from behind is no longer off temp HP/temp Shield so it has to be healed at some point. Either you backpedal or you heal yourself or you put extra work on the healer. I'm I wrong?

  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    larc#1138 said:


    Also Back peddling is a tactical decision as well, you can just raise your shield and eat attacks, you should back peddle only to create a more advantageous situation for you and your team mates (if any).

    Damage from behind is no longer off temp HP/temp Shield so it has to be healed at some point. Either you backpedal or you heal yourself or you put extra work on the healer. I'm I wrong?

    In solo play your self heal out of combat is huge, and the extra 40% HP you have as a tank gives plenty of buffer before you need to worry about things. Further few monsters will get behind you enough to fully bypass your shield in solo play, especially if you strategically use Relentless Avenger and Smite to thin numbers with Burning Light to limit their movement.

    In team play, you want to grab aggro, put your shield up (Binding Oath + Sacred Weapon is useful here) and then reposition with the mob swarming you. You want the mob in front of you with their backs to the rest of the party. This gives the party Combat Advantage and increases the party's dps. This is tactical repositioning, not shield up running away. There are several ways to do it (go through, go to a side, go back and have the party circle) and you should choose the best one for the location you are in to maximize the party's effectiveness.

    The idea that "because I'm a tank I ignore 100% of enemy mechanics" is bad for the game, and a problem the OP brought to the game in Mod 6 (and one I didn't understand at that time properly). The fact that there are a lot of us playing OP and benefiting from that has made it worse.

    Now you can create a weaker version of this in Mod 16. Take the feat that makes Tab a 360 effect that blocks 75% of damage and makes you CC immune (to most effects), now you can run into the middle of mobs and you will take minimal damage and you can use Palisade (be warned it locks you in place) to block big attacks. This strategy actually works nicely (Sacred Weapon, Vow, Binding Oath/Burning Light, Oath Strike) on trash mobs, with either Aura of Vengeance or Aura of Wrath slotted. But I don't recommend it for bosses. But note you don't negate 100% of mechanics, the binary state of "alive or dead" is moved to a "taking damage so the healer has to watch the tank" state, which makes healers needed (dead tank -> dead healer -> dead party).
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • boggo49boggo49 Posts: 8Member Arc User




    In team play, you want to grab aggro, put your shield up (Binding Oath + Sacred Weapon is useful here) and then reposition with the mob swarming you. You want the mob in front of you with their backs to the rest of the party. This gives the party Combat Advantage and increases the party's dps. This is tactical repositioning, not shield up running away. There are several ways to do it (go through, go to a side, go back and have the party circle) and you should choose the best one for the location you are in to maximize the party's effectiveness.
    .

    So just like a fighter tank but without the ability to attack with the shield up? So, you're saying in group content, we get to stand around while the dps kill everything? May as well retire my main and go for a fighter, at least i will have a dps path and actually be able to do something beside block when tanking.
    Haven't been able to try group content in test thks to time zones/low population on test (last time I was on there was 1 instance, 2 people in undermountain and 1 instance, 12 people in PE). Tried random queue in test and only got skirmishes , where i felt as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.
    Thks for all the testing and feedback Obsidian, but this isn't the game or character I signed up for 5 1/2 years ago, the game's been dumbed down to something you'd expect to see on a smart phone and , if the polls on the you tube streamers posts are true, will result in the loss of around 30% of the player base, mainly long time 17+k players (already happening, the population on the private pve channels has halved since mod 16 hit the test).
    6 days to live and anyone who thinks Cryptic can fix all the bugs and problems on the test at the moment, needs to remember the title from the game "hope over experience".
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    edited April 17
    boggo49 said:


    So just like a fighter tank but without the ability to attack with the shield up? So, you're saying in group content, we get to stand around while the dps kill everything? May as well retire my main and go for a fighter, at least i will have a dps path and actually be able to do something beside block when tanking.

    No, I'm saying at the start of the fight you grab aggro and position the mobs with your shield up.

    My experience in Dungeons (also limited due to time zones/preview/not having a set crew) has been, position and control the mobs with aggro and use powers to keep that happening. Using shield only when getting pushed too hard or needing to get some Divinity back.

    Boss fights that feature a lot of adds are an example of where you spend more time having to use your shield, you tend to end up eating the attacks of everything, but fights with few or no adds means you are free to block less and attack more.

    And while I do expect there to be a loss of players, there always is with a significant change, 1 in 3 players is a myth for the community. It will be a much smaller drop rate over the whole community than that.

    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • gonzothegreat198gonzothegreat198 Posts: 10Member Arc User
    Don't know if anyone noticed, but @asterdahl just took up almost a full page on the Barb forums and did the same on Monday for the Clerics addressing their issues. I'd like to hope he will be doing the same here soon as there are definitely glaring issues that seriously need to be addressed.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    @bobo#5090

    Oathkeeper has Tab as a Divinity Recovery mechanic. That’s all it does. Yes it’s meh.

    Justicar has Tab as a Sanctuary like power, it’s exact effects depend on the feat you take at level 77. The top feat at 77 makes it cost 50 and give to 75% DR in 360 with CC immunity and double the effect for your Aura for allies in it. The bottom feat leaves the cost at 60, only provides 50% Shielding from the front and CC immunity and 2x Auras, but increases your threat. In both versions you tap tab to activate and again to stop it, and you can move freely.

    So at 77 if you take the top feat you get a more Sanctuary like effect.

    You can also press Shift while it is active to activate Palisade which further buffs DR for you and allies behind you (think useful in CR) and applies a small heal. This significantly increases Divinity consumption. So you want to use it in bursts. It also roots you in place, so is useless against enemies that drop directionless splats under you (think Scorpions in LoL).
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    edited April 20
    *never mind I forgot my Human stat bonus*

    We are still 2 stat points short of every other class.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • tardbathtardbath Posts: 34Member Arc User
    So our stats in this patch got a bit up ?? Is this the final version or what? :p Last patch i lost some stats now they are back up! Anyone else ?
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Posts: 734Member Arc User
    tardbath said:

    So our stats in this patch got a bit up ?? Is this the final version or what? :p Last patch i lost some stats now they are back up! Anyone else ?

    Haven't checked my stats. If you're referring to ability scores than no. There has been no change in mine.
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
    Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
    Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
    Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
    S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
    T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
    Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    Divine Champion is appearing 2x in the Combat Log for each enemy attack, but only one seems to be doing anything.

    eg
    [Combat (Self)] Your Divine Champion absorbs 0 damage from Deathlock Wight's Gravebolt.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Divine Champion absorbs 12192 damage from Deathlock Wight's Gravebolt.
    [Combat (Self)] Deathlock Wight deals 12192 (48768) Necrotic Damage to you with Gravebolt.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Posts: 734Member Arc User
    edited April 22

    tardbath said:

    So our stats in this patch got a bit up ?? Is this the final version or what? :p Last patch i lost some stats now they are back up! Anyone else ?

    Haven't checked my stats. If you're referring to ability scores than no. There has been no change in mine.
    And as of 2234 Central US time, our ability scores STILL haven't been adjusted. Still 72 total points for paladin (unadjusted) and 74 for the other classes. Checked it a few hours ago from this posting.

    edit - as of 2117 Central US time on 21 April 2019, our ability scores STILL HAVEN'T been adjusted! Is this an oversight or is it intended?
    Post edited by majorcharvenak on
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
    Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
    Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
    Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
    S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
    T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
    Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
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