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Official M16: Paladin Feedback

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  • anoreksjaanoreksja Posts: 81Member Arc User
    gripnir78 said:


    You seem not to be aware that most of your proposal above are exactly reasons why they doing a complete game rework in a first place..... noworries you and other Paladins gone be OK, all you need to do is adopt to the new reality....

    Said GF !! @gripnir78 what's your goal in Paladins topic?
  • hagbard#9047 hagbard Posts: 31Member Arc User
    I liked to play NWO cuz of the none micro managment of mana but now we got divinity managment. I dont know if this is the right step into the future of this MMO
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    edited April 9
    Good news...Composure is working.
    Bad news it’s not worth slotting.

    I went to SH and used Divine Challenge (Tab) to run my divinity down. I judged 0 as when the circle for Divine Challenger vanished and 100% as when the divinity bar visually filled.

    I only did 3 trials with Composure and 3 without.
    It took 37s to go from 0 to full with Composure.
    It took 40s to go from 0 to full without Composure.

    The above figure (without Composure) means that Divinity recovers at 25/s out of combat. One (additional) trial I did was using At-Will attacks to keep the Divinity bar fully visible, and that trial took about 110s to refill the Divinity bar or 9/s. I didn’t repeat that so it could be a little inaccurate.

    However 2 recommendations from that:
    Increase out of combat recovery to 40/s, this will mean it takes 25s to go from empty to full out of combat.
    Increase in combat recovery to 20/s, this means it takes 50s to go from empty to full in combat.

    The latter means that if you use Smite 3 times in a row, taking about 10s, you are getting the effect of 1 every 20s or so, if you gain extra recovery through blocking or Divine Pursuit, you can bring that rate down and match closer to the 10-15s that the other tanks wait for their big single target shots.

    I also believe that these changes would remove the need for Composure as a passive and free that slot for another combat benefit which we are sorely lacking.

    Oh I didn’t mention Channel Divinity, but it should double the rate of regeneration, possibly triple it.
    Post edited by obsidiancran3 on
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Posts: 295Member Arc User
    anoreksja said:

    gripnir78 said:


    You seem not to be aware that most of your proposal above are exactly reasons why they doing a complete game rework in a first place..... noworries you and other Paladins gone be OK, all you need to do is adopt to the new reality....

    Said GF !! @gripnir78 what's your goal in Paladins topic?
    Dude, chill. Powershare meta was toxic for the game, and pretty much everything else there read like entitled whining, too.
  • gormenghast1gormenghast1 Posts: 86Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    No idea why that particular word derived from the second surname of Leopold von Sacher M., famous ukranian writer of the XIX century has to be censored, but it's not a swear word. It just means "someone that has desire to suffer or likes to inflict pain to him/herself". Just to be as hamsterless as possible.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    I can only speak from my experience playing my toons (every class has been played, but mostly Warlock, Paladin and Sentinel Barbarian)

    1) No one has “fast movement” in 16, unless they get gear or Boons to buff it, Movement is the same unless you start burning stamina on Warlock, Barbarian and Rogue to get around faster. I note the SH Mounted movement boon provides a much larger effect.

    2) Levelling a Paladin is not hard. Yes it’s slower than levelling a similarly geared DPS class, but it’s also safer. It’s also not that much slower as to be unbearable.

    3) The current Mod16 Paladin provides very different benefits as a tank to the other tanks. All the tanks have a block mechanic that works the same, where they differ is their Tab mechanic and the Paladin’s is not like the Barbarian’s or Fighter’s, and that is the key distinction.

    4) Divinity management isn’t as onerous as people keep trying to say. Just stop spamming divinity powers every 2s. (That’s not to say that Divinity Recovery doesn’t need a boost, it’s to say that just because Smite has a 2s cooldown doesn’t mean you need to use it every 2s.) If you absolutely hate “mana management” then NW has never been the game for you as Stamina is used by every class and is a “mana management” process. If you can take the management of stamina to block/dodge, you can manage divinity.

    5) My live Paladin is built for Power, HP, and then ArP, I’m short on Crit but she is only 17k (rounding up). Playing in Mod 16 the only thing you need to be sure of is that you are close to or above ArP cap for the zone you are in. That makes a much bigger difference than it does on live. Accuracy is also very important (it counters deflect). All I tweaked was my pet items and the runestones in those items, everything else I used for levelling is the same as live. Then I farmed Expeditions to upgrade to 950 gear, watching ArP and Accuracy for capping. Then I’m ready to start farming LotMM.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • ragnarz2ragnarz2 Posts: 208Member Arc User



    4) Divinity management isn’t as onerous as people keep trying to say. Just stop spamming divinity powers every 2s. (That’s not to say that Divinity Recovery doesn’t need a boost, it’s to say that just because Smite has a 2s cooldown doesn’t mean you need to use it every 2s.) If you absolutely hate “mana management” then NW has never been the game for you as Stamina is used by every class and is a “mana management” process. If you can take the management of stamina to block/dodge, you can manage divinity.

    Personally, the issue is a new "mana management" currency that feels like punishment rather than a fun aspect of the game. It is an unnecessary addition. That and the over simplification of things just screams HAMSTER.
  • anoreksjaanoreksja Posts: 81Member Arc User
    You know, I just remembered something recently...
    leonidrex said:

    ragnarz2 said:

    anoreksja said:

    Thanks for movie, but it looks like a desperate combat for survival and not for winning :( Enemy one hit takes you over half a HP [2:22]. Fortunately, you had healing potions. Seriously, tanking in module 16 going to look like this?

    skill, block, block, block, skill, block, block, skill . . . repeat the pattern. use only 2 buttons. after you get to pause while divinity regenerates.
    the pinnacle of gaming right there.
    the dream we all gamers were waiting for, came true! all praise new paladin.
    Paladin is dead, long live THE paladin!
    So, only 1,5 weeks of joy to play OP in Neverwinter...
  • leonidrexleonidrex Posts: 394Member Arc User

    Actually at this point I don't care.

    The class still has need of actual serious play testing, and improvement (though less than some other classes, I'm back to happy with where the Paladin sits now and not putting her on the shelf).

    Want to effect change?

    Get in Preview, get data and make arguments for change that are not based on wanting to go back to Mod 6-15 game play. Mod 6-15 game play is dead, it is not coming back. Listen to Elsa and let it go.

    Actually play testing and reporting faults and having evidence to justify why things should be changed might actually cause something to change, even at this late stage.

    But just going "I don't like it" isn't going to do a HAMSTER thing.

    Hiho matey, I suggest you watch podcast from Galactic that he had with other end gamers, and testers. Then you will know how much they listen to feedback.
    I also want to let you know that this thingy called mod 16 will be released with several hundreds of bugs, if not thousands. And let me tell ya, there is a point where peeps can take no more, so maybe JUST MAYBE you and Dear Elsa are right, and we should let it go? anyways, most my friends turned to play freaking hearthstone over NV, and the scary thingy is that i might just join them.

  • skaarl75skaarl75 Posts: 19Member Arc User

    Arcturia was a nightmare with Paladin. The main issues were:
    * mob uses power (Festering Swarm) disables the toon
    * this power is cast too offen, lasts quite long
    * mob regularly jumps back into one of these, makes it impossible to use most of the powers
    * mob power Life Drain heals back the mob even if it is blocked, w/o divinity it is impossible to outdamage it
    * it is a 2-3 phase encounter, no time between phases to regain divinity for last phase
    * divinity gain is low for these long encounter
    I almost gave it up, but found a Feat/boon/power setup i could do it at the end. but it was really a specific setup, I would never use in long term.

    been stuck on this for progression which is why I haven't tested much lately. just can't seem to beat her :(
  • fns2005fns2005 Posts: 150Member Arc User
    > @gormenghast1 said:
    > The last mod 16 build is depressing and, as a game that has always attracted players for a fun, fluid and fast combat system, playing the lame duck pally makes no sense.

    Duck Duck Pally lol.
  • kacsaneverkacsanever Posts: 167Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited April 11
    gripnir78 said:



    Arcturia was a nightmare with Paladin. The main issues were:
    * mob uses power (Festering Swarm) disables the toon
    * this power is cast too offen, lasts quite long
    * mob regularly jumps back into one of these, makes it impossible to use most of the powers
    * mob power Life Drain heals back the mob even if it is blocked, w/o divinity it is impossible to outdamage it
    * it is a 2-3 phase encounter, no time between phases to regain divinity for last phase
    * divinity gain is low for these long encounter
    I almost gave it up, but found a Feat/boon/power setup i could do it at the end. but it was really a specific setup, I would never use in long term.

    Well all you need is L2P a new module thats all....
    Thank you for your constructive response ^^
  • jobelo71#5623 jobelo71 Posts: 3Member Arc User
    Sorry English is not my primary language.

    I do main paladin.

    i am enjoying that i could tank, heal and DPS base on paragon and feat that i can choose in mod 15.

    Paladin is special in mod 16. The only character without DPS path.
    With the change made in mod 16, Paladin can no longer do DPS comparable to DPS character, like a was able to do in mod 15.

    In solo content this is very important to me.
    Time is precious, and we all calculate time to play vs income, to make sure we can progress a fast as other.

    what i found is in a typical MOD 16 dungeon run:

    3 DPS do 25% damage each, total 75% of damage, tank and healer do the 25% remaining. So in dungeon, 1 DPS do TWICE the amount of damage of healer or tank. This is all good in dungeon.

    In solo play, DPS probably add survivability, tank and healer add DPS to their load-out, or, all classes (except Paladin) can switch to a DPS load-out. As a Paladin, even if a take all i can to DPS, no way i can get close to DPS performance in a sens of time to progress. Just compare Paladin with any DPS on a dummy for 10 minutes.

    Solo playing is for me 50% of my time. being less effective is really hurting what i am looking for, and i do think i will change character if mod 16 come out like this. possibly looking for other game to.

    I believe Paladin need more option to DPS. Why not create DPS path.
    More option is always better than less option. It wouldn't hurt anyone to give us a DPS path. Otherwise give us more tools to DPS in solo play.

    thank you.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    *sigh*
    You can not compare Paladin on a dummy because Divinity regeneration in combat, without blocking (even with the Pursuit feat) is tiny (about 10/s or 0.1%/s without Pursuit, not much better with it). So Paladin can never achieve peak performance on a dummy.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • benyrbenyr Posts: 140Member Arc User
    Its way too late now, but I cant help but feel an awful lot of the issues on this forum could have been solved if the Dev's had anticipated the issues in making only one class have no DPS path whilst nerfing damage across the game would cause.

    As I have stated previously I completely get why the OP will not be given a 3rd path as that would be massively unfair to every other class, and they wont ditch either heals or Tanking from the class as either choice would seriously upset a significant number of players. Again as previously stated I understand why the OP cant just be given more damage in dungeon's as it will make them an absolute must have class in any dungeon run. Finally I completely understand (if hate) why the the mechanism for tanking through temp HP had to go, as again in a dungeon run if you have one tank tanking through pure damage mitigation and one tanking via doing damage to generate HP, everyone would want the latter as you get a 2 for 1 deal, and would be a nightmare for the Devs to balance.

    It feels to me this dilemma should have been foreseen, the Paladin should have been split into 2 completely separate classes one with a Tank and DPs load out like the GF's and Barbarians, and one with a Heals and DPS load out like the DC and Warlock. Every existing paladin should have been given a re roll token on launch of mod 16 allowing them to re roll to one or the other. This would have allowed the Devs to focus on play style and balance rather than all this time they've spent tweaking the OP's damage to try and make it bearable in solo and not over powered in Dungeons, which whilst they have come a long way the OP remains more time consuming to solo on than any other class I log in on, (Warlock aside which the DPS load out still feels weaker than any other).
  • davidmokidavidmoki Posts: 52Member Arc User
    sorry guys, I didnt have time to read all posts, but did we got an answer on why on earth Justicar has divinity?
  • ragnarz2ragnarz2 Posts: 208Member Arc User
    davidmoki said:

    sorry guys, I didnt have time to read all posts, but did we got an answer on why on earth Justicar has divinity?

    Punishment
  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Posts: 295Member Arc User

    @asterdahl @terramak @noworries#8859 how you expect paladins to be fun when they can not even solo illusionist gambit skirmish from 70 to 80? our current play style is way better versus this, if you cannot tell go run a paladin through IG it will probably hit you like a brick wall, wish you would design it so that we dont have to use all these new powers and paragons unless using new content, leave all our old system intact for all the previous content and make mod 16 only mod we have to use this stuff, because mod 16 encounter powers and class feats are very unacceptable, and i do not like this play style at all, cant even properly solo IG so sad, please remove divinity from paladins it so stinks and its such a let down and please make paladins play correctly again not this messed up version of paladin that we got on test

    Skirmishes are group content, bro
  • ragnarz2ragnarz2 Posts: 208Member Arc User
    post patch DPS reduced by about 25pct. 12ish minute master expedition took over 30m. My hunter was reduced by 1/3.

    If the goal is to make people quit the game you are on the right track. Devaluing comps, boons, mounts and enchants was a bitter pill. This is untenable.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    I'm not seeing a direct DPS reduction post patch, but it seems that Divinity Recovery has slowed down!

    Given it was already painfully slow this is a big concern!

    And may lead to @ragnarz2's reported dps reduction.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
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