Honestly, it feels more like an attempt to control what we run and how much rather than a necessity. I think they want to squeeze people out of the L70 content. There's no other reason for such punitive scaling. And even the stuff that seems to have been "fixed" is quite punitive.
It's less a "punitive" thing, and more a "take it or leave it".
The thing is, it's not about scaling for all the new L80 characters in Mod 16. It's for further down the line when the typical IL will be closer to 30k or even more. It's a long term vision that doesn't account for the transition period between inception, and when we finally get to where the scaling will be a realistic reflection of a character's capability. As with the goals of all the concepts of the mechanics changes, scaling is a long term fix rather than a short term one. Sadly for that short term, we're knackered as far as dropping back into stuff we've been happily running for ages goes.
This is my point... (and I'm sure it is the intention, but they are unlikely to say so...) Four mods from now, we won't even consider it an issue because a) there will be more L80 content to run with our L80 toons, and b) subsequent mods will increase IL further causing scaling to be far less of an inconvenience.
It doesn't seem like the problems scaling will cause in the short to medium term have been considered or, if they have, it has been decided that the long term benefits outweigh the need to apply a reasonable fix for right now.
From a devs point of view there may be a long time perspective like "it will WAI within 3 mods" sure. From players perspective witch is always short timed ( I want have fun NOW not in 3 modules) its not WAI.
I really doubt that new content will hold us busy long enaugh to wait for a new modules, for many reasons, witch was pointed out in this thread many times.
So for me, many of those changes are made to make a new player friendly environment in this game even more. Witch wouldnt be a bad thing, BUT it leads to old player base anihilation. All those changes made most of ours pre mod 16 efforts insignificant. What a little is left from it, is even more devaluated due to scalling. It is in fact a hard reset.
So it seems they want to exchange veteran, but not paying/needing ZEN player base for fresh and eager to pay. Cant say I blame them, but wouldnt be better to work over a solution keepig old timers playing and paying and new comers staying and paying?
There is however one thing I simply cannot understand - when all our enchantments/legendary mounts/cmapign completions are - lets be honest - almost insignificant in a MOD 16 - how they want to encourage a new players to spend any real money? For what? Rank 14 enchant witch in fact gives you LOL in compare to almost free rank 8, and witch work same in lower level content? Really? For 25$? REALLY? Sure a new player may made such a mistake to buy few of those but he will realise really soon its not giving him in fact any real profit. From bussines perspective counting on profit based on such a foundation is not smart. Sure some will say that a lot of games brings a lot of profit just selling a visuals/skins. - sure but you need to implement such system form a start - not after years where spending real money alowed you to fill gap to BIS end game players. Since MOD 16 there will bo no real gap....
So... there must be something else... and I wont be suprised if our ZEN store gona be reworked as well...
P.S. Enchantement exchange was recently removed form a test server.... rank 14/15 enchants hitting ZEN store or?.....
5
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,261Arc User
From a devs point of view there may be a long time perspective like "it will WAI within 3 mods" sure. From players perspective witch is always short timed ( I want have fun NOW not in 3 modules) its not WAI.
I really doubt that new content will hold us busy long enaugh to wait for a new modules, for many reasons, witch was pointed out in this thread many times.
So for me, many of those changes are made to make a new player friendly environment in this game even more. Witch wouldnt be a bad thing, BUT it leads to old player base anihilation. All those changes made most of ours pre mod 16 efforts insignificant. What a little is left from it, is even more devaluated due to scalling. It is in fact a hard reset.
So it seems they want to exchange veteran, but not paying/needing ZEN player base for fresh and eager to pay. Cant say I blame them, but wouldnt be better to work over a solution keepig old timers playing and paying and new comers staying and paying?
There is however one thing I simply cannot understand - when all our enchantments/legendary mounts/cmapign completions are - lets be honest - almost insignificant in a MOD 16 - how they want to encourage a new players to spend any real money? For what? Rank 14 enchant witch in fact gives you LOL in compare to almost free rank 8, and witch work same in lower level content? Really? For 25$? REALLY? Sure a new player may made such a mistake to buy few of those but he will realise really soon its not giving him in fact any real profit. From bussines perspective counting on profit based on such a foundation is not smart. Sure some will say that a lot of games brings a lot of profit just selling a visuals/skins. - sure but you need to implement such system form a start - not after years where spending real money alowed you to fill gap to BIS end game players. Since MOD 16 there will bo no real gap....
So... there must be something else... and I wont be suprised if our ZEN store gona be reworked as well...
P.S. Enchantement exchange was recently removed form a test server.... rank 14/15 enchants hitting ZEN store or?.....
I think everything you said is correct. Take or leave. Its a bussiness. Anyway lots of people will stay and adapt. Some will leave. Some will come later when the bugs are gone (big ones at least).
But even with the reduction of the gap between news and olds people who played for 6 years have a lot of knowledge of the game that is more valuable than some items or stats. An experienced player is much more valuable than 5K Item Level.
I think the Zen store will not change much, they will sell companions, mounts, some services, VIP, Keys, etc. I dont think there is a problem. If lots of new players come, the money will come, even if you dont sell coal wards.
What they have to do once they have everything under control (that can take 1 module or more) is add to the game REAL options, like new classes, races, paragon paths, etc. This change is supossed to make the life easier to developers that allways said that the complexity of the core game was stopping them to add this options.
From a devs point of view there may be a long time perspective like "it will WAI within 3 mods" sure. From players perspective witch is always short timed ( I want have fun NOW not in 3 modules) its not WAI.
I really doubt that new content will hold us busy long enaugh to wait for a new modules, for many reasons, witch was pointed out in this thread many times.
So for me, many of those changes are made to make a new player friendly environment in this game even more. Witch wouldnt be a bad thing, BUT it leads to old player base anihilation. All those changes made most of ours pre mod 16 efforts insignificant. What a little is left from it, is even more devaluated due to scalling. It is in fact a hard reset.
So it seems they want to exchange veteran, but not paying/needing ZEN player base for fresh and eager to pay. Cant say I blame them, but wouldnt be better to work over a solution keepig old timers playing and paying and new comers staying and paying?
There is however one thing I simply cannot understand - when all our enchantments/legendary mounts/cmapign completions are - lets be honest - almost insignificant in a MOD 16 - how they want to encourage a new players to spend any real money? For what? Rank 14 enchant witch in fact gives you LOL in compare to almost free rank 8, and witch work same in lower level content? Really? For 25$? REALLY? Sure a new player may made such a mistake to buy few of those but he will realise really soon its not giving him in fact any real profit. From bussines perspective counting on profit based on such a foundation is not smart. Sure some will say that a lot of games brings a lot of profit just selling a visuals/skins. - sure but you need to implement such system form a start - not after years where spending real money alowed you to fill gap to BIS end game players. Since MOD 16 there will bo no real gap....
So... there must be something else... and I wont be suprised if our ZEN store gona be reworked as well...
P.S. Enchantement exchange was recently removed form a test server.... rank 14/15 enchants hitting ZEN store or?.....
I think everything you said is correct. Take or leave. Its a bussiness. Anyway lots of people will stay and adapt. Some will leave. Some will come later when the bugs are gone (big ones at least).
But even with the reduction of the gap between news and olds people who played for 6 years have a lot of knowledge of the game that is more valuable than some items or stats. An experienced player is much more valuable than 5K Item Level.
I think the Zen store will not change much, they will sell companions, mounts, some services, VIP, Keys, etc. I dont think there is a problem. If lots of new players come, the money will come, even if you dont sell coal wards.
What they have to do once they have everything under control (that can take 1 module or more) is add to the game REAL options, like new classes, races, paragon paths, etc. This change is supossed to make the life easier to developers that allways said that the complexity of the core game was stopping them to add this options.
But well, we will see.
I heard similar things from other game developers but it was always about how a specific thing, PS3, was holding them back. Well its been over a year now since PS3 was removed as a platform and the game graphics have not been updated or changed. New powers were not added, etc... I call these so called limitation that devs state as EXCUSES....
As for mod 16; it will impact Cryptic financials.
1) Enchantments and legendary mounts are not as impactful reducing revenue stream from players buying zen to acquire AD 2) Players like myself who played many character bought stuff for many character will reduce the number of characters we play do to the extra time it takes to complete content 3) Players that spend money will leave
All of these will financially hurt cryptic. Cryptic is betting Magic the Gather MMO as there is where most of their staff is assigned to as a project right now.
I heard similar things from other game developers but it was always about how a specific thing, PS3, was holding them back. Well its been over a year now since PS3 was removed as a platform and the game graphics have not been updated or changed. New powers were not added, etc... I call these so called limitation that devs state as EXCUSES....
As for mod 16; it will impact Cryptic financials.
1) Enchantments and legendary mounts are not as impactful reducing revenue stream from players buying zen to acquire AD 2) Players like myself who played many character bought stuff for many character will reduce the number of characters we play do to the extra time it takes to complete content 3) Players that spend money will leave
All of these will financially hurt cryptic. Cryptic is betting Magic the Gather MMO as there is where most of their staff is assigned to as a project right now.
I just wanted to add some feedback to this list
1 - This is very true. That being said, I do wonder if after launch there might be new better items in the Zen store to counteract the value loss of all existing stuff across the board. If this is not their plan kiss NW goodbye* (well speak to this at the end)
2 - Everything is NW will take longer now. This will send many existing players away. They just don't understand two points. One, people who play mostly solo now will NOT find groups to play with. If solo becomes a drag they are gone. Two, I am willing to bet the majority of NW actual playtime is solo for the non elite. These two facts combined is bad news for MOD16.
My thoughts, is that they plan on new players (who have never played NW before) to fill the void. That being said, with so much fun sucked out of the game I wonder how long new players will stay around as well, especially after they realise that buying stuff from the Zen market will be mostly as waste of money.
3 - I have no doubt they are not making MOD16 for the current Whales and moderate spenders as their spending has dried up considerably. Again, they are hoping new players will be buying Zen.
Now as far as my * above? If you really look at everything they are doing, from coding, to dumbing stuff down, to cleaning up the information on the screen, to even reducing the game to mostly at-wills, it seems, to me anyway, they are planning to port the game to either mobile or Switch. This will create a whole new revenue stream for them.
We'll know in a week, I guess, but I agree that everything is set in stone at this point. Here are my thoughts with respect to dumbing things down.
I have 16 alts that are level 70 (and a 17th I only just created who is level 7 or so). For this argument I'm only going to refer to the first 16. Additionally, I'm only going to speak to solo content as that's where I spend 99% of my time.
Each of my alts is a little bit different -- maybe a different paragon path, maybe a different feat tree, maybe both. Using two alts instead of two loadouts, for me, at least, makes differentiating different playstyles easier. If I want to, for example, play a Damnation Hellbringer, I play Brianna. If I want to play a Fury Hellbringer (with different powers slotted), I play Xivra. My alts all differ in terms of playstyle and strengths.
If Mod 16 forces me into cookie-cutter builds that effectively benches a lot of my alts. If CC-build CWs become totally non-viable in solo content, that effectively benches Miri, my Spellstorm Oppressor. If I want to play a MoF instead, I already have Lia. If I want to play a Spellstorm Thaumaturge, Corienne is already in the bullpen. The same goes for all of the other classes: each current build that becomes either non-viable or becomes merged into some cookie-cutter alternative results in an alt being effectively benched.
That amounts to less alts I need to play, less effort involved in gearing them, and ultimately less I wind up spending simply because I won't need to. It also amounts to less fun I'm having in the game.
So, from that standpoint alone, I'm not at all enthusiastic about the new mod, as from what I've seen so far on Preview means that a good one-third of my alts will wind up being benched. That's not a good thing no matter how one might try to spin it.
My current plans are to force myself to run my main through the content, even though I really don't feel like it. After that I'll probably concentrate on Stronghold stuff until the next mod, and if that gets too boring, maybe I'll do something else -- like something outside.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
7
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
One, people who play mostly solo now will NOT find groups to play with. If solo becomes a drag they are gone. Two, I am willing to bet the majority of NW actual playtime is solo for the non elite. These two facts combined is bad news for MOD16.
Most players, not just "non-elite" spend a good deal of time playing solo - just doing their dailies and weeklies and such. In fact, "elite" players might even play more solo, as they can handle more of the content alone in the first place.
However, you are absolutely right that Mod 16 will impact solo play. For a BiS character the only real difference will be that combat is slower, and you might not be able to pull many groups of enemies to one location and nuke them out of existence. In my testing (with a stopwatch), I found that combat (in instanced L70 content) with a IL 24K L80 on Preview takes about 50% longer than it currently takes the same character (just IL 19K L70) on live.
For less-geared or less skilled players, solo play will not only take much, much longer (some have reported up to a 250% increase in time) - it will also be more dangerous, and for many people, more boring.
I used to recommend Neverwinter to anyone looking for a "solo-friendly" MMO, but it is really, really hard to do that any more.
One, people who play mostly solo now will NOT find groups to play with. If solo becomes a drag they are gone. Two, I am willing to bet the majority of NW actual playtime is solo for the non elite. These two facts combined is bad news for MOD16.
Most players, not just "non-elite" spend a good deal of time playing solo - just doing their dailies and weeklies and such. In fact, "elite" players might even play more solo, as they can handle more of the content alone in the first place.
However, you are absolutely right that Mod 16 will impact solo play. For a BiS character the only real difference will be that combat is slower, and you might not be able to pull many groups of enemies to one location and nuke them out of existence. In my testing (with a stopwatch), I found that combat (in instanced L70 content) with a IL 24K L80 on Preview takes about 50% longer than it currently takes the same character (just IL 19K L70) on live.
For less-geared or less skilled players, solo play will not only take much, much longer (some have reported up to a 250% increase in time) - it will also be more dangerous, and for many people, more boring.
I used to recommend Neverwinter to anyone looking for a "solo-friendly" MMO, but it is really, really hard to do that any more.
It feels like the last map on EE launch, made a Guardian Fighter back then just to help guildies to level that place because any CW ot TR was just smashed by the cloud giants, also remmeber a lot of people calling "tank/heals help" for lairs there.
But back then was only oneinstance that you woul do and then forget, nothing like a place where you have to work on boons... this can be a hard hit for new players... and i believe this same new players are the main focus on mod 15 and 16 changes...
Hope that is dont get this big and any 2man party be able to run those places, not making Tank or heals so needed on "solo" content...
One, people who play mostly solo now will NOT find groups to play with. If solo becomes a drag they are gone. Two, I am willing to bet the majority of NW actual playtime is solo for the non elite. These two facts combined is bad news for MOD16.
Most players, not just "non-elite" spend a good deal of time playing solo - just doing their dailies and weeklies and such. In fact, "elite" players might even play more solo, as they can handle more of the content alone in the first place.
However, you are absolutely right that Mod 16 will impact solo play. For a BiS character the only real difference will be that combat is slower, and you might not be able to pull many groups of enemies to one location and nuke them out of existence. In my testing (with a stopwatch), I found that combat (in instanced L70 content) with a IL 24K L80 on Preview takes about 50% longer than it currently takes the same character (just IL 19K L70) on live.
For less-geared or less skilled players, solo play will not only take much, much longer (some have reported up to a 250% increase in time) - it will also be more dangerous, and for many people, more boring.
I used to recommend Neverwinter to anyone looking for a "solo-friendly" MMO, but it is really, really hard to do that any more.
It feels like the last map on EE launch, made a Guardian Fighter back then just to help guildies to level that place because any CW ot TR was just smashed by the cloud giants, also remmeber a lot of people calling "tank/heals help" for lairs there.
But back then was only oneinstance that you woul do and then forget, nothing like a place where you have to work on boons... this can be a hard hit for new players... and i believe this same new players are the main focus on mod 15 and 16 changes...
Hope that is dont get this big and any 2man party be able to run those places, not making Tank or heals so needed on "solo" content...
That brings back some unpleasant memories. I remember having to group for Nimbus Tower (AKA rebranded Celadaine's Tower) because soloing the boss fight was all but impossible. Not fun. Not fun at all.
It wasn't just there, though. I couldn't count all the guildies I've had to escort through the entire Fiery Pit part of the campaign back in the Mod 9 days. EE was brutal back then.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
I spent some time in IWD and DR last night and found both to be playable and completable for a level 70-71 and a level 80 toon. Any enemy in those zones that is “smashing” you is probably a bug.
Similar in Sharandar and Omu previously.
I still need to look at Shoshenstar, River District, Well of Dragons and re-visit Barovia.
But certainly some of these zones have now been tweaked to give a satisfactory play experience for a level 80 toon.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Actually I kinda like intense combat during soloing.. Like dc before 30% increase personal dmg mods before.. dancing around storm giants ... oh the adrenaline..
The problem I find with the scaled zones is that the content is not any more difficult than it is currently, it just takes a LOT longer. Unless you are extremely careless it is very difficult to get killed by mobs. All it feels like they did is just nerf damage into the ground so that it takes enemies longer to die but in no way do any zones feel dangerous. It leaves an extremely unrewarding and boring game at it's core. Stand in group of mobs, hit encounters, spam at wills....wait for cool downs.
That's funny. Just over the weekend I was getting different stats in Kessel vs Shore vs eLoL vs Mala. My hp, power, crit, and Penn we're different in each dungeon by about 4-5k. Thankfully this time around my stats stayed the same through the entirety of each run, but they were different in each one. Also, something is weird with Kessel. The baddies in there hit way harder than anything we got hit by in the other runs.
patcherrkmMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 127Arc User
edited April 2019
Here is a mechanic that isn't working. The amount of bots in random leveling queue is ridiculous. Even worse is sometimes they get stuck or drop and you cant finish the dungeon. and you cant vote them out for to abandon because the other bots dont vote, you get penalized. congrats cryptic on coming up with a system that is penalizing the actual player while enabling and rewarding botting. the amount of HAMSTER ad entering the economy this way is staggering. how about addressing this?
its sad that im getting more used to running content with bots, instead of players....
RIQ is a botting place, you even can watch some of those programm searching for setup or failing right at the start. Worst experience so far, me and 4 bots in one Master of the Hunt. 2 player dc`d after a while, pretty sure a preset bahaviour if things take too long. One rogue-bot in following-mode simply just stood there and went into stealth and back (poor programmed bot I guess). The last one a GWF-bot was playing till the end.. headless programmed bot I call him. The dungeon failed, I could have made a video about that slapstick comedy. A solution is needed indeed, at least you should not get punisehd for leaving a mixed group out of bots and leecher. This punishes only the ambitioned player and favours bot/leeching behaviour. Mabye give us 3 free attempts a day to leave a brainless groups like that, after leaving 3 times you can punish the 4.
<font color=Cyan> I have enough Armor Penetration at level 80 to deal true damage to critters in Lair of the Mad Mage. However, due to scaling, I do NOT have enough armor pen to deal true damage to critters in Shoshenstar River where I am scaled to level 70.
In my opinion, it makes no sense that I need more gear to complete level 70 solo content than I would to complete the newest content of the game, end of story.
I have enough Armor Penetration at level 80 to deal true damage to critters in Lair of the Mad Mage. However, due to scaling, I do NOT have enough armor pen to deal true damage to critters in Shoshenstar River where I am scaled to level 70.
In my opinion, it makes no sense that I need more gear to complete level 70 solo content than I would to complete the newest content of the game, end of story.
it's soooo broken. it's no where near ready for release. they bit off too much here imo in no way is this an improvement. I think this was all done with 500/1 stats in mind we were fine before. maybe if they even dialled it back to 700 or 800 to one there could be some compromise. (although I'm firmly against scaling in any form) but the reality is if it's doable and not too painful most will soldier on. in a case like this were it's punishing/unrewarding/pointless and basically everything you just don't want ina game people will walk adn not come back. when it was 500 to 1 I was really non fussed with everything. tbh I didn't even look at notice the scaling.
I have enough Armor Penetration at level 80 to deal true damage to critters in Lair of the Mad Mage. However, due to scaling, I do NOT have enough armor pen to deal true damage to critters in Shoshenstar River where I am scaled to level 70.
In my opinion, it makes no sense that I need more gear to complete level 70 solo content than I would to complete the newest content of the game, end of story.
it's soooo broken. it's no where near ready for release. they bit off too much here imo in no way is this an improvement. I think this was all done with 500/1 stats in mind we were fine before. maybe if they even dialled it back to 700 or 800 to one there could be some compromise. (although I'm firmly against scaling in any form) but the reality is if it's doable and not too painful most will soldier on. in a case like this were it's punishing/unrewarding/pointless and basically everything you just don't want ina game people will walk adn not come back. when it was 500 to 1 I was really non fussed with everything. tbh I didn't even look at notice the scaling.
Honestly I wasn't seeing the scaling problem before. I went to Sharandar and completed everything in a similar timeframe as I would on live. Then I heard there was a problem in Shoshenstar River so I went there to test. The problem becomes immediately apparent from critters in the jungle (I stopped to bless a shrine surrounded by spiders). I'm not a fan of House of the Crocodile in general, but there's NO WAY I'm ever running it in mod 16. I haven't tried Fane yet, and I'm already feeling sick to my stomach. In level 80 content, I'm blasting elites and trash mobs alike and in level 70 content I'm clawing my eyes out in boredom from how long it takes.
Wouldn't it just be easier to make all content level 80 with varying stats rather than scaling everyone to varying degrees of effectiveness? Apparently they are already capping each piece of gear individually, perhaps they could have just scaled everything to 80 and made the stats on items that drop in those areas with appropriate stats according to where they drop. Seems like their current idea of scaling is overly complicated and doesn't work in practice.
I have enough Armor Penetration at level 80 to deal true damage to critters in Lair of the Mad Mage. However, due to scaling, I do NOT have enough armor pen to deal true damage to critters in Shoshenstar River where I am scaled to level 70.
In my opinion, it makes no sense that I need more gear to complete level 70 solo content than I would to complete the newest content of the game, end of story.
it's soooo broken. it's no where near ready for release. they bit off too much here imo in no way is this an improvement. I think this was all done with 500/1 stats in mind we were fine before. maybe if they even dialled it back to 700 or 800 to one there could be some compromise. (although I'm firmly against scaling in any form) but the reality is if it's doable and not too painful most will soldier on. in a case like this were it's punishing/unrewarding/pointless and basically everything you just don't want ina game people will walk adn not come back. when it was 500 to 1 I was really non fussed with everything. tbh I didn't even look at notice the scaling.
Honestly I wasn't seeing the scaling problem before. I went to Sharandar and completed everything in a similar timeframe as I would on live. Then I heard there was a problem in Shoshenstar River so I went there to test. The problem becomes immediately apparent from critters in the jungle (I stopped to bless a shrine surrounded by spiders). I'm not a fan of House of the Crocodile in general, but there's NO WAY I'm ever running it in mod 16. I haven't tried Fane yet, and I'm already feeling sick to my stomach. In level 80 content, I'm blasting elites and trash mobs alike and in level 70 content I'm clawing my eyes out in boredom from how long it takes.
Wouldn't it just be easier to make all content level 80 with varying stats rather than scaling everyone to varying degrees of effectiveness? Apparently they are already capping each piece of gear individually, perhaps they could have just scaled everything to 80 and made the stats on items that drop in those areas with appropriate stats according to where they drop. Seems like their current idea of scaling is overly complicated and doesn't work in practice.
I don't know what the answer is but it's clearly not what is going on now.
I don't see why lifting content to L80 should be a bad thing.
For whatever reason, (GIMMICK!!!!!!!) a new level cap was added. Therefore level 70 is not important any more. The only remaining vestige of it's previous relevance is the fact that there is a HAMSTER tonne of content that used to be end game, but is now 10 levels below the stupid increased cap, and causing the biggest problem the game has seen since Mod 6 due to the completely inadequate system of down scaling).
No on is going to hang about once they hit L70 running Dread Ring and Icewind Dale. They will skip as quickly as they can through whatever gets them the XP to get to L80.
At that point they will either do Undermountain... and Undermountain.... and some more Undermountain... ad infinitum till Mod 17 offers a reprieve... Or... They will go back and get butt HAMSTER by scaling in old "lower level" content that is, for whatever mind bending reason the Powers That Be have decreed, twice as bloody hard as the Undermountain.
Why does all that stuff NEED to be L70? Why do the Dungeons NEED to be L70?
Bump them all up to a basic version of L80, (except for the top most Dungeons) and make scaling less relevant.
Before anyone says, "But that would make all that content so much harder..." It wouldn't. Not unless you have some magic trick to keep your toon below L71 for ALL those campaigns.
Stop downscaling the players... UPSCALE the content...
0
kacsaneverMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
I don't see why lifting content to L80 should be a bad thing.
For whatever reason, (GIMMICK!!!!!!!) a new level cap was added. Therefore level 70 is not important any more. The only remaining vestige of it's previous relevance is the fact that there is a HAMSTER tonne of content that used to be end game, but is now 10 levels below the stupid increased cap, and causing the biggest problem the game has seen since Mod 6 due to the completely inadequate system of down scaling).
No on is going to hang about once they hit L70 running Dread Ring and Icewind Dale. They will skip as quickly as they can through whatever gets them the XP to get to L80.
At that point they will either do Undermountain... and Undermountain.... and some more Undermountain... ad infinitum till Mod 17 offers a reprieve... Or... They will go back and get butt HAMSTER by scaling in old "lower level" content that is, for whatever mind bending reason the Powers That Be have decreed, twice as bloody hard as the Undermountain.
Why does all that stuff NEED to be L70? Why do the Dungeons NEED to be L70?
Bump them all up to a basic version of L80, (except for the top most Dungeons) and make scaling less relevant.
Before anyone says, "But that would make all that content so much harder..." It wouldn't. Not unless you have some magic trick to keep your toon below L71 for ALL those campaigns.
Stop downscaling the players... UPSCALE the content...
Funny, but it seems for me it is done in both ways^^
I have enough Armor Penetration at level 80 to deal true damage to critters in Lair of the Mad Mage. However, due to scaling, I do NOT have enough armor pen to deal true damage to critters in Shoshenstar River where I am scaled to level 70.
In my opinion, it makes no sense that I need more gear to complete level 70 solo content than I would to complete the newest content of the game, end of story.
it's soooo broken. it's no where near ready for release. they bit off too much here imo in no way is this an improvement. I think this was all done with 500/1 stats in mind we were fine before. maybe if they even dialled it back to 700 or 800 to one there could be some compromise. (although I'm firmly against scaling in any form) but the reality is if it's doable and not too painful most will soldier on. in a case like this were it's punishing/unrewarding/pointless and basically everything you just don't want ina game people will walk adn not come back. when it was 500 to 1 I was really non fussed with everything. tbh I didn't even look at notice the scaling.
It took my soulweaver warlock, who's 19.9k and lvl 80, 6 minutes to kill a pair of DEER in Barovia last night. At no point was I at risk of dying, being a healer and all, but even though I should have had somewhere in the neighborhood of 80% armor pen (I'm actually about 4k over cap in lvl 80 zones) I was hitting in the 1500-2000 range with all my encounters and my at-wills were doing 800-1100. They seemed to be the standout exception as I had no problem killing zombies, vampires, etc (was even able to solo Martikov Merchants sHE, albeit with difficulty) but since they're part of a repeatable quest and you have to kill a whole bunch of them, I'm not sure they actually just got overlooked on the tuning and may be "WAI" by Cryptic's perspective.
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House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
From a devs point of view there may be a long time perspective like "it will WAI within 3 mods" sure.
From players perspective witch is always short timed ( I want have fun NOW not in 3 modules) its not WAI.
I really doubt that new content will hold us busy long enaugh to wait for a new modules, for many reasons, witch was pointed out in this thread many times.
So for me, many of those changes are made to make a new player friendly environment in this game even more.
Witch wouldnt be a bad thing, BUT it leads to old player base anihilation.
All those changes made most of ours pre mod 16 efforts insignificant. What a little is left from it, is even more devaluated due to scalling.
It is in fact a hard reset.
So it seems they want to exchange veteran, but not paying/needing ZEN player base for fresh and eager to pay.
Cant say I blame them, but wouldnt be better to work over a solution keepig old timers playing and paying and new comers staying and paying?
There is however one thing I simply cannot understand - when all our enchantments/legendary mounts/cmapign completions are - lets be honest - almost insignificant in a MOD 16 - how they want to encourage a new players to spend any real money? For what? Rank 14 enchant witch in fact gives you LOL in compare to almost free rank 8, and witch work same in lower level content? Really? For 25$? REALLY?
Sure a new player may made such a mistake to buy few of those but he will realise really soon its not giving him in fact any real profit. From bussines perspective counting on profit based on such a foundation is not smart.
Sure some will say that a lot of games brings a lot of profit just selling a visuals/skins. - sure but you need to implement such system form a start - not after years where spending real money alowed you to fill gap to BIS end game players. Since MOD 16 there will bo no real gap....
So... there must be something else... and I wont be suprised if our ZEN store gona be reworked as well...
P.S. Enchantement exchange was recently removed form a test server.... rank 14/15 enchants hitting ZEN store or?.....
But even with the reduction of the gap between news and olds people who played for 6 years have a lot of knowledge of the game that is more valuable than some items or stats. An experienced player is much more valuable than 5K Item Level.
I think the Zen store will not change much, they will sell companions, mounts, some services, VIP, Keys, etc. I dont think there is a problem. If lots of new players come, the money will come, even if you dont sell coal wards.
What they have to do once they have everything under control (that can take 1 module or more) is add to the game REAL options, like new classes, races, paragon paths, etc. This change is supossed to make the life easier to developers that allways said that the complexity of the core game was stopping them to add this options.
But well, we will see.
Caturday Survivor
Elemental Evil Survivor
Undermontain Survivor
Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
As for mod 16; it will impact Cryptic financials.
1) Enchantments and legendary mounts are not as impactful reducing revenue stream from players buying zen to acquire AD
2) Players like myself who played many character bought stuff for many character will reduce the number of characters we play do to the extra time it takes to complete content
3) Players that spend money will leave
All of these will financially hurt cryptic. Cryptic is betting Magic the Gather MMO as there is where most of their staff is assigned to as a project right now.
1 - This is very true. That being said, I do wonder if after launch there might be new better items in the Zen store to counteract the value loss of all existing stuff across the board. If this is not their plan kiss NW goodbye* (well speak to this at the end)
2 - Everything is NW will take longer now. This will send many existing players away. They just don't understand two points. One, people who play mostly solo now will NOT find groups to play with. If solo becomes a drag they are gone. Two, I am willing to bet the majority of NW actual playtime is solo for the non elite. These two facts combined is bad news for MOD16.
My thoughts, is that they plan on new players (who have never played NW before) to fill the void. That being said, with so much fun sucked out of the game I wonder how long new players will stay around as well, especially after they realise that buying stuff from the Zen market will be mostly as waste of money.
3 - I have no doubt they are not making MOD16 for the current Whales and moderate spenders as their spending has dried up considerably. Again, they are hoping new players will be buying Zen.
Now as far as my * above? If you really look at everything they are doing, from coding, to dumbing stuff down, to cleaning up the information on the screen, to even reducing the game to mostly at-wills, it seems, to me anyway, they are planning to port the game to either mobile or Switch. This will create a whole new revenue stream for them.
I have 16 alts that are level 70 (and a 17th I only just created who is level 7 or so). For this argument I'm only going to refer to the first 16. Additionally, I'm only going to speak to solo content as that's where I spend 99% of my time.
Each of my alts is a little bit different -- maybe a different paragon path, maybe a different feat tree, maybe both. Using two alts instead of two loadouts, for me, at least, makes differentiating different playstyles easier. If I want to, for example, play a Damnation Hellbringer, I play Brianna. If I want to play a Fury Hellbringer (with different powers slotted), I play Xivra. My alts all differ in terms of playstyle and strengths.
If Mod 16 forces me into cookie-cutter builds that effectively benches a lot of my alts. If CC-build CWs become totally non-viable in solo content, that effectively benches Miri, my Spellstorm Oppressor. If I want to play a MoF instead, I already have Lia. If I want to play a Spellstorm Thaumaturge, Corienne is already in the bullpen. The same goes for all of the other classes: each current build that becomes either non-viable or becomes merged into some cookie-cutter alternative results in an alt being effectively benched.
That amounts to less alts I need to play, less effort involved in gearing them, and ultimately less I wind up spending simply because I won't need to. It also amounts to less fun I'm having in the game.
So, from that standpoint alone, I'm not at all enthusiastic about the new mod, as from what I've seen so far on Preview means that a good one-third of my alts will wind up being benched. That's not a good thing no matter how one might try to spin it.
My current plans are to force myself to run my main through the content, even though I really don't feel like it. After that I'll probably concentrate on Stronghold stuff until the next mod, and if that gets too boring, maybe I'll do something else -- like something outside.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
However, you are absolutely right that Mod 16 will impact solo play. For a BiS character the only real difference will be that combat is slower, and you might not be able to pull many groups of enemies to one location and nuke them out of existence. In my testing (with a stopwatch), I found that combat (in instanced L70 content) with a IL 24K L80 on Preview takes about 50% longer than it currently takes the same character (just IL 19K L70) on live.
For less-geared or less skilled players, solo play will not only take much, much longer (some have reported up to a 250% increase in time) - it will also be more dangerous, and for many people, more boring.
I used to recommend Neverwinter to anyone looking for a "solo-friendly" MMO, but it is really, really hard to do that any more.
But back then was only oneinstance that you woul do and then forget, nothing like a place where you have to work on boons...
this can be a hard hit for new players... and i believe this same new players are the main focus on mod 15 and 16 changes...
Hope that is dont get this big and any 2man party be able to run those places, not making Tank or heals so needed on "solo" content...
It wasn't just there, though. I couldn't count all the guildies I've had to escort through the entire Fiery Pit part of the campaign back in the Mod 9 days. EE was brutal back then.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Similar in Sharandar and Omu previously.
I still need to look at Shoshenstar, River District, Well of Dragons and re-visit Barovia.
But certainly some of these zones have now been tweaked to give a satisfactory play experience for a level 80 toon.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
The situation in the dungeons linked to those zones is still utterly ridiculous.
Oh those are the same stats you get for all the T1 Dungeons (KR, SoT, LoL, VT, MC) and in IWD and Well of Dragons.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
its sad that im getting more used to running content with bots, instead of players....
Worst experience so far, me and 4 bots in one Master of the Hunt. 2 player dc`d after a while, pretty sure a preset bahaviour if things take too long. One rogue-bot in following-mode simply just stood there and went into stealth and back (poor programmed bot I guess). The last one a GWF-bot was playing till the end.. headless programmed bot I call him. The dungeon failed, I could have made a video about that slapstick comedy.
A solution is needed indeed, at least you should not get punisehd for leaving a mixed group out of bots and leecher. This punishes only the ambitioned player and favours bot/leeching behaviour. Mabye give us 3 free attempts a day to leave a brainless groups like that, after leaving 3 times you can punish the 4.
In my opinion, it makes no sense that I need more gear to complete level 70 solo content than I would to complete the newest content of the game, end of story.
Wouldn't it just be easier to make all content level 80 with varying stats rather than scaling everyone to varying degrees of effectiveness? Apparently they are already capping each piece of gear individually, perhaps they could have just scaled everything to 80 and made the stats on items that drop in those areas with appropriate stats according to where they drop. Seems like their current idea of scaling is overly complicated and doesn't work in practice.
For whatever reason, (GIMMICK!!!!!!!) a new level cap was added. Therefore level 70 is not important any more. The only remaining vestige of it's previous relevance is the fact that there is a HAMSTER tonne of content that used to be end game, but is now 10 levels below the stupid increased cap, and causing the biggest problem the game has seen since Mod 6 due to the completely inadequate system of down scaling).
No on is going to hang about once they hit L70 running Dread Ring and Icewind Dale. They will skip as quickly as they can through whatever gets them the XP to get to L80.
At that point they will either do Undermountain... and Undermountain.... and some more Undermountain... ad infinitum till Mod 17 offers a reprieve...
Or...
They will go back and get butt HAMSTER by scaling in old "lower level" content that is, for whatever mind bending reason the Powers That Be have decreed, twice as bloody hard as the Undermountain.
Why does all that stuff NEED to be L70? Why do the Dungeons NEED to be L70?
Bump them all up to a basic version of L80, (except for the top most Dungeons) and make scaling less relevant.
Before anyone says, "But that would make all that content so much harder..."
It wouldn't.
Not unless you have some magic trick to keep your toon below L71 for ALL those campaigns.
Stop downscaling the players...
UPSCALE the content...