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Official M16: Stats and Mechanics

noworries#8859 noworries Posts: 518 Member, Cryptic Developer Cryptic Developer
https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/11093193-developer-blog:-stats-&-mechanics

Please use this thread to discuss the changes to Stats and Mechanics as well as report any issues.

Update 3/27/19:

Now that preview has been going for several weeks now and there has been an immense level of feedback for us to review, we have made some core changes to further improve the balance. These will likely go to preview later this week, barring any complications.
  • Ratings now convert at 1000 rating points to 1%
  • Defense now caps at 50% damage ignored. Certain temporary buffs can bypass this cap up to a maximum of 80% damage ignored.
  • Critter ratings have been adjusted to have two values. Defense/Deflect/Combat Advantage/and Crit will be a higher value than the other four ratings. Critter ratings have been adjusted as well. Ex: level 70 critters will have 7,000 rating for Critical Resist, Accuracy, Awareness, and Armor Pen. They will have 57,000 ratings for Defense, Deflect, Combat Advantage, and Critical Strike. At endgame, the higher ratings are always 50,000 more than the lower ratings.
  • Encounter and Daily magnitudes have been brought down, making At-Will powers more effective in relation.
  • Critter Health has been reduced by 30% across the board
  • Multi-target At-Wills have had their damage increased

So why were these particular changes made?

With the values ratings currently have, players routinely either have below the threshold for a given rating which means it has zero effectiveness, or they have wasted stats because the cap for effectiveness has been exceeded.

By changing the conversion from 500 to 1% to 1000 to 1% it gives a wider variance in values. This in turn allowed us to lower the critter ratings so that players who have even minimal viable gear should find it easy to see some effectiveness from their ratings. In addition, separating the critter ratings into two categories allows for all ratings to have similar investments put into them for effectiveness. The way it is on preview now, players need over twice as much for half their ratings which is an odd balancing act.

There has been no shortage of talk about At-Wills not feeling meaningful enough to want to use. While mathematically over the course of a fight, or dungeon run, they added up to a significant amount of damage, it didn't feel that way due to the size of individual hits. To bring At-Wills closer to other powers, we reduced the magnitudes of Encounter and Dailies and reduced overall critter health to adjust for the lower overall damage.

As with all aspects, further changes could happen before this goes live.
Post edited by noworries#8859 on
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Comments

  • kungfoofairy#9095 kungfoofairy Posts: 2Member Arc User
    Bug: The "subtract" button for boons does not work for characters who had old boons.
    Steps to reproduce:

    Open character sheet to boons tab.
    Click on any Tier1 boon to add a point to it.
    Click the "+" button once on any tier one boon.
    Decide you don't want that one after all.
    Click the "-" button on the same boon to remove that point.
    Error popup window opens reading: "There was a problem! The change you just tried to make will affect the purchase of these skills: [lists all of the old boons you previously had]", then asks "Would you like to remove these pending skills in order to continue?"
    Clicking "OK" does nothing. So you must click "Cancel" to exit the window, but then you cannot reallocate that point.




  • anne#1876 anne Posts: 3Member Arc User
    I agree on the rerolling of attributes. I have now attributes which I really do not need anymore which are very high and the ones which I need weren't useful when I created the character so I have very low values there. Would be nice to have some kind of token in the Zen shop like the ones where we can relearn out boons etc..
  • checkmatein3checkmatein3 Posts: 525Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Bug: The MH and OH artifact weapon choices for artifact powers still show mod 15 selections.
    LEVIATHAN--19.3k Metallic Dragonborn Guardian Fighter Swordmaster Loadouts

    Guild--And the Imaginary Friends




  • pitmonster#5684 pitmonster Posts: 535Member Arc User
    anne#1876 said:

    I agree on the rerolling of attributes. I have now attributes which I really do not need anymore which are very high and the ones which I need weren't useful when I created the character so I have very low values there. Would be nice to have some kind of token in the Zen shop like the ones where we can relearn out boons etc..

    ^^^This^^^

    This is simply NO WAY you can roll this mod out without allowing players to perform a complete stats reroll. Why wasn't this denoted in your blog release, this is VITAL information!

    EX: SW to Warlock - Previously Con was taking for increase in damage. Nope, not there now. Might even want Dex now.
  • codetellercodeteller Posts: 37Member Arc User
    I see "combined rating" on a number of items. what is "combined rating" ?
  • martelis1981martelis1981 Posts: 119Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    And how the heck I know if I exceeded the limit or rating of a stat?
  • vincentr6669vincentr6669 Posts: 235Member Arc User
    anne#1876 said:

    I agree on the rerolling of attributes. I have now attributes which I really do not need anymore which are very high and the ones which I need weren't useful when I created the character so I have very low values there. Would be nice to have some kind of token in the Zen shop like the ones where we can relearn out boons etc..

    From what i've read there's no more relloling starting abilities (or attributes if you prefer this term), each class has a pre-determined set of abilities and on top of that you receive racial bonuses from whatever race you choose.
  • pitmonster#5684 pitmonster Posts: 535Member Arc User

    anne#1876 said:

    I agree on the rerolling of attributes. I have now attributes which I really do not need anymore which are very high and the ones which I need weren't useful when I created the character so I have very low values there. Would be nice to have some kind of token in the Zen shop like the ones where we can relearn out boons etc..

    From what i've read there's no more relloling starting abilities (or attributes if you prefer this term), each class has a pre-determined set of abilities and on top of that you receive racial bonuses from whatever race you choose.
    I have not read that anywhere. Do you have a link to that information?

  • vincentr6669vincentr6669 Posts: 235Member Arc User

    anne#1876 said:

    I agree on the rerolling of attributes. I have now attributes which I really do not need anymore which are very high and the ones which I need weren't useful when I created the character so I have very low values there. Would be nice to have some kind of token in the Zen shop like the ones where we can relearn out boons etc..

    From what i've read there's no more relloling starting abilities (or attributes if you prefer this term), each class has a pre-determined set of abilities and on top of that you receive racial bonuses from whatever race you choose.
    I have not read that anywhere. Do you have a link to that information?

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1246312/official-m16-general-feedback/p1

    Last post of page 1.

    Besides that just try to make a new character on preview server. You can't choose its ability rolls.
  • tgwolftgwolf Posts: 249Member Arc User
    Yes, all Classes Ability Scores are now preset and cannot be manually altered.

    Race Bonuses, additional points given for Level milestones and some other sources such as certain Gear can however be used to increase individual Scores as desired.

  • codetellercodeteller Posts: 37Member Arc User
    Ability scores don't make sense. There's no point for my barbarian to take Strength, it doesn't do anything for here. There's little point for my wizard to up Int , which doesn't help his dps.
  • animewatcha#6533 animewatcha Posts: 82Member Arc User
    So how is the change to Armor class going to be handled? It's not uncommon for guardian fighter and oathbound paladin ( ps4 player here ) to have around 40 ac give or take. This accounts for 15 percent damage reduction that we didn't have to raise defense to account for. Under the new system, this amounts to about 7500 defense ( 15 x 500 ). Are tanking classes going to get 'free defense' to compensate for this or does this count as yet another nerf?
  • tgwolftgwolf Posts: 249Member Arc User

    So how is the change to Armor class going to be handled? It's not uncommon for guardian fighter and oathbound paladin ( ps4 player here ) to have around 40 ac give or take. This accounts for 15 percent damage reduction that we didn't have to raise defense to account for. Under the new system, this amounts to about 7500 defense ( 15 x 500 ). Are tanking classes going to get 'free defense' to compensate for this or does this count as yet another nerf?

    Yes and no.

    With higher levels come higher gear stats, which are balanced by removal of the same stats from different sources as well as the reworking of classes to ensure they fill their specific roles better granting boosts as well.

    Mostly though, since we won't be near immortal because of LS and Recovery won't be allowing Encounter/Daily spam, enemies won't need to be OSK machines and will be dialed back.

    The Guard mechanic in Mod16 is extremely good though, try it out on preview if you get the chance.
  • mortsmashmortsmash Posts: 8Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Ignoring HP and Power for the moment, the original stat blog gave a formula for calculating a rating of the other four stat pairs.
    (Stat - Opposed Stat)/500 = effective stat in percentile

    Armor Penetration opposed to Defense
    Critical Strike opposed to Critical Resist
    Accuracy opposed to Deflect
    Combat Advantage opposed to Awareness

    Critical Strike was specified as having a base value of 5% and a cap of 50%.
    Deflect was specified as having a cap of 50%.
    Combat Advantage was specified as having a base value of 10% and a cap of 100%.

    1. Do all stats operate with the same 1/500 multiplier?

    2. In terms of calculating Critical Resist, do enemies also have a base 5% (or larger) Critical Strike rating? In a zone with a 16,000 rating (the value given for the 1st part of Undermountain), would having a Critical Resist rating of 16000 mean that enemies have a 0% change of critically striking the character [ (16000 CR- 16000 CS)/500 = 0% ]. Or do enemies have an additional Critical Strike rating that must be overcome such as a base 5% or greater. If so, will those enemy base Critical Strike ratings be made available (similar to knowing the Armor Pen rating needed for a given zone in the previous/existing mods)?

    3. Do enemies have DR separate of their effective zone-wide Defense stat that needs to overcome with Armor Penetration? If a character has a a 16,000 Armor Penetration stat in a zone with a 16,000 rating, does this equate to fully overcoming the enemy's Defense and as such the character will inflict full damage, or is there an additional layer of enemy DR that needs to be overcome with Armor Penetration (such as the approximate 100% Defenses Ignored that would enable full damage in Castle Ravenloft in the previous/existing mod)? If these values exist, will they again be provided and/or will they be adjusted should the 1/500 multiplier be applied (as the existing Armor Penetration stat uses approximately a 1/100 multiplier to convert to the Defenses Ignored percentile)? If new content uses the same enemy DR and the 1/500 multiplier, Armor Penetration stats would need to be greater than a 66,000 value for a character to inflict full damage in Undermountain (66,000 - 16,000)/500 = 100%.

    4. Along the same thought, will a 16,000 Awareness stat nullify all Combat Advantage damage from enemies in zone with a 16,000 rating? Or do NPC enemies have a base value that can be overcome to nullify the NPC enemy's Combat Advantage bonus damage? Is there a portion of enemy Combat Advantage bonus damage that cannot be nullified by Awareness?

    5. Do NPC enemies have a chance to Deflect attacks from characters? Will a 16,000 Accuracy rating eliminate the chance of an NPC enemy Deflecting an attack in a zone with a 16,000 rating? If NPC enemies do not have a chance to Deflect an attack from a character, why would a PVE focused player allocate any resources into Awareness as a 0 and a 16,000 Awareness stat appear to generate identical results in a 16,000 zone?

    6. Does a successful Deflection still mitigate 50% of the damage (as Deflection Severity appears to have been removed but was not mentioned)? Is base effective Deflection Severity still varied by class?
  • artifleurartifleur Posts: 642Member Arc User
    We need more specific information for sure.

    We could go test it all, but I was hoping the alpha-testers would be able to give us all the info upfront.
  • wisper2048wisper2048 Posts: 181Member Arc User
    There should be a section in stats that displays total % for relative critical, deflect, defence, enemy defence as adjusted by enemy stats and counterstats, scaling, and bonuses from feats/boons/potions. So I would open this section and will see that I have 10% critical in the current zone, and that enemies have 20% CA bonus on me and I have 15% CA bonus on them.
  • artifleurartifleur Posts: 642Member Arc User
    What about Power? It doesn't have an opposing rating? So maybe we could at least see what it does on the character sheet.
  • stormfury#6869 stormfury Posts: 8Member Arc User


    This is simply NO WAY you can roll this mod out without allowing players to perform a complete stats reroll. Why wasn't this denoted in your blog release, this is VITAL information!

    EX: SW to Warlock - Previously Con was taking for increase in damage. Nope, not there now. Might even want Dex now.

    Sadly all characters will be clones of each other attribute wise. With the changes, even healers will want Dex for crits. Outside of tanks, DPS and Heals will be carbon copies attribute wise. It seems very odd to me design wise... :(

  • stormfury#6869 stormfury Posts: 8Member Arc User
    tgwolf said:

    Yes, all Classes Ability Scores are now preset and cannot be manually altered.

    Race Bonuses, additional points given for Level milestones and some other sources such as certain Gear can however be used to increase individual Scores as desired.

    Seriously? That's just lazy and lame. So you're forcing us to take traditional D&D abilities scores based on class yet behind the scenes they don't do anything for our character classes? Why bother to have ability scores at all?
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Posts: 3,748Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    New stats/counter stats are insane and unreasonable. You cannot expect casual players to ever hit the required cap for all of these.

    All this is going to do is divide the elite from the peasants further.
  • artifleurartifleur Posts: 642Member Arc User

    Just a general post for anyone wanting to know how these work:

    • All ratings are 500:1.
    • Enemies have 24000 of each rating at level 80 (both offensive and defensive).
    • Accuracy counters deflect.
    • Armour penetration counters defense.
    • Crit Resist Counters Crit.
    • Awareness counters combat advantage.
    • You have a base CA score of 10% and CA caps at 100% bonus.
    • You have a base Crit of 5% and crit caps at 50%.
    • Deflection caps at 50%.
    • Damage Reduction caps at 80%.
    • These stats are additive, so if you have 20000 accuracy and the enemy has 40% deflect, their value would be 0. The same applies for all the stats.
    • All percentage bases for crit and ca ARE countered by the counter stat. For example, with 45% crit from stats and 5% base, if an enemy has 50% crit resist you will not crit.
    • Debuffs are not diminished anymore.
    • Break the spirit etc are debuffs and not buffs.
    • As far as I can tell only 2 group buffs exist and they are multiplicative. Controlled Momentum and feated AA.
    • Your defensive ratings cannot go negative. For example if an enemy has 20000 armor penetration and you have no damage reduction, it will not increase damage taken by 40%.
    • The combined rating on gear adds its rating to every single stat. So if you have +500 combined rating, everything is increased by 500.
    I personally feel that additive counter ratings are a bad idea as it incentivizes a true min max (you either go all in on a stat or you want none of it), but it will not be changed, so there is no point giving feedback about them.

    If you want to know what to stack, the order of importance (in short is:
    1. Armor Penetration until capped.
    2. Accuracy until capped.
    3. Power.
    4. You only want to invest in crit and combat advantage if you can stack a lot of either of them and in general you only want to stack 1 of them, the other should be at 0. If you do not have more then 106% crit severity, combat advantage should always be better.
    Thanks man. I see I wasn't so far off after reading the dev blog.

    Now I have to decide weither I want to dump crit or CA. Seeing that Aspect of the Pack doesnt give CA anymore I may well got for crit.

    BTW What does Power do? Is it 1% more damage per 500 Power too?
  • outlawgentoutlawgent Posts: 6Member Arc User
    so... a complete Char re-roll is gonna be needed I think; with ALL the changes to STR. CON. DEX, INT, WS, & CHA I would not have taken the same roll.
    [๖̶̶̶ۣۣۜۜ͜ζ͜͡Outlaw ™]
  • thefabricantthefabricant Posts: 4,955Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    artifleur said:

    Just a general post for anyone wanting to know how these work:

    • All ratings are 500:1.
    • Enemies have 24000 of each rating at level 80 (both offensive and defensive).
    • Accuracy counters deflect.
    • Armour penetration counters defense.
    • Crit Resist Counters Crit.
    • Awareness counters combat advantage.
    • You have a base CA score of 10% and CA caps at 100% bonus.
    • You have a base Crit of 5% and crit caps at 50%.
    • Deflection caps at 50%.
    • Damage Reduction caps at 80%.
    • These stats are additive, so if you have 20000 accuracy and the enemy has 40% deflect, their value would be 0. The same applies for all the stats.
    • All percentage bases for crit and ca ARE countered by the counter stat. For example, with 45% crit from stats and 5% base, if an enemy has 50% crit resist you will not crit.
    • Debuffs are not diminished anymore.
    • Break the spirit etc are debuffs and not buffs.
    • As far as I can tell only 2 group buffs exist and they are multiplicative. Controlled Momentum and feated AA.
    • Your defensive ratings cannot go negative. For example if an enemy has 20000 armor penetration and you have no damage reduction, it will not increase damage taken by 40%.
    • The combined rating on gear adds its rating to every single stat. So if you have +500 combined rating, everything is increased by 500.
    I personally feel that additive counter ratings are a bad idea as it incentivizes a true min max (you either go all in on a stat or you want none of it), but it will not be changed, so there is no point giving feedback about them.

    If you want to know what to stack, the order of importance (in short is:
    1. Armor Penetration until capped.
    2. Accuracy until capped.
    3. Power.
    4. You only want to invest in crit and combat advantage if you can stack a lot of either of them and in general you only want to stack 1 of them, the other should be at 0. If you do not have more then 106% crit severity, combat advantage should always be better.
    Thanks man. I see I wasn't so far off after reading the dev blog.

    Now I have to decide weither I want to dump crit or CA. Seeing that Aspect of the Pack doesnt give CA anymore I may well got for crit.

    BTW What does Power do? Is it 1% more damage per 500 Power too?
    @artifleur yes it is and it has no counter rating. This was why I ranked it above crit/ca.
  • I have so much to say but i will stay quiet.
  • lowjohnlowjohn Posts: 1,036Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    so... a complete Char re-roll is gonna be needed I think; with ALL the changes to STR. CON. DEX, INT, WS, & CHA I would not have taken the same roll.

    It doesn't matter. You no longer get to roll/choose your starting stats. Every Cleric has the same base array, every Barbarian has the same base array, every Wizard has the same base array. Only your Racial bonuses and your levelling bonuses are choices.
  • artifleurartifleur Posts: 642Member Arc User
    lowjohn said:

    so... a complete Char re-roll is gonna be needed I think; with ALL the changes to STR. CON. DEX, INT, WS, & CHA I would not have taken the same roll.

    It doesn't matter. You no longer get to roll/choose your starting stats. Every Cleric has the same base array, every Barbarian has the same base array, every Wizard has the same base array. Only your Racial bonuses and your levelling bonuses are choices.
    AFAIK racial bonuses are not covered by basic re-roll tokens.
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