arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
when respec boons the game auto change my encounter powers/at-wills and daily powers for the starting ones and forcing player to re-arrange all our powers everytime we try to change boons @noworries#8859 the respec boons button is not locking the respec to boons page only, if i use respec feats it resets all my boons locked options, something is broken and not working like it does on live, were each tab for power/feats/boons reset separate, also after i reach level 80 the tab for power stay highlighted but nothing is available to change
when respec boons the game auto change my encounter powers/at-wills and daily powers for the starting ones and forcing player to re-arrange all our powers everytime we try to change boons @noworries#8859 the respec boons button is not locking the respec to boons page only, if i use respec feats it resets all my boons locked options, something is broken and not working like it does on live, were each tab for power/feats/boons reset separate, also after i reach level 80 the tab for power stay highlighted but nothing is available to change
I get that it's a hassle, but maybe it's a good thing that one token does a full respec, instead of one token per page? Just saying.
I wouldn't want to have to redo all of the boons just to click a few different boxes for feats. It wouldn't be as bad as having to redo powers on Live but still bad. They split respec tokens into 3 and made them per page as a good QoL change.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
With the new mechanics (and probably scaling too) everything just takes longer. That's not a challenge, that's just pain. Whoever thought that it would be fun to make repetitive content in zones take longer?
The only challenge with that is not to fall asleep or get bored to death.
Did the second expedition last night, very weird bug with stats. Normally my HPs are 410K(535K bounces in lower UM and workshop), my HPs were 805K and my ratings were through the roof. Oddly my gold/glory gain from my 9 prosperity insignia was completely gone, only the half elf racial of 1% gold gain.
Like I stated in another thread, lower instances should not scale the player level or item level but instead simply enforce a set value for all stats, AKA maximum allowed stat for said zone. This would make balancing easier. It is simply set the stat and forget. Let higher level players enjoy the extra stats as they EARNED it and should be able to feel stronger in lower level zones.
Like I stated in another thread, lower instances should not scale the player level or item level but instead simply enforce a set value for all stats, AKA maximum allowed stat for said zone. This would make balancing easier. It is simply set the stat and forget. Let higher level players enjoy the extra stats as they EARNED it and should be able to feel stronger in lower level zones.
100% agreed Exactly my tought, also placed this feedback a few times already...
Like I stated in another thread, lower instances should not scale the player level or item level but instead simply enforce a set value for all stats, AKA maximum allowed stat for said zone. This would make balancing easier. It is simply set the stat and forget. Let higher level players enjoy the extra stats as they EARNED it and should be able to feel stronger in lower level zones.
Love the idea, +5000. Scaling is HAMSTER right now.
Approximated comparisons of R14 Weapon enchantments: Assumes near-cap stats, 4 thousand base damage, 15k normal DPS, and ignores the 5% damage boost common to all of them.
- GOOD - Vorpal: +2,500 dps, +1% critical hit chance. Lightning: +2,000 dps (half vs single targets) Bronze: +750 dps, enemies -3% deflection, all allies up to +750 dps
- POOR - Lifedrink: Heals you for about 1000 health per second Holy: All allies gain +1% defense and are healed for approximately 100 Health per second Frost: Targets are slowed 30% and their encounter recharge is reduced by 15%. (Situationally BiS) Terror: 50% chance to root a target on Daily use (for 3 seconds), targets -1% awareness
To balance these out I recommend nerf the best and buff the worst: Reduce Vorpal from +50% critical severity to +35% critical severity. Reduce Lightning damage from 50% base to 40% base. Reduce Bronzewood deflection debuff to half. Triple the awareness debuff of Terror enchantment.
To make Plaguefire different from Flaming: Double the damage done by Plaguefire each second, but remove it's AoE damage. Triple the current AoE damage of Flaming enchantment, and have it debuff critical instead of critical resist.
So after a very long day (and some of last night) I have gathered the following information (plus more that didn't seem particularly relevant) about stats.
I didn't change gear during this process. My Augment moved from level 30 to level 35 early in the process and then I stopped advancing it (and did not train it after level 33, when I realized my mistake). The Boons I added were 5x Awareness and 2x Movement, so that is some of the change in Awareness.
I believe that this shows that the scaling system is fundamentally flawed.
Given the status of my gear my iL and stats should basically not change, other than HP at all in any of these pictures.
Yet not only does it change in these pictures, it changes at different points on maps and reports wildly variant values depending on where you stand on the map and what you have been doing.Places like the Basilisk and Dragon caves in Wylllowwood had far higher stats than outside of Wyllowwood for example. Often the entry to an Expedition, just after you enter the door, reports far higher stats than if you look inside the first and subsequent zones of the expedition. Swapping gear to get into LotMM, then swapping back leaves you with stats far, far higher than the stats the gear should be providing. But looking at all of this, how are we even supposed to know what our stats are?
This first picture shows my initial (well after I went to YP and then back to Barovia...) stats in Barovia, and they represent the values I believe should be seen in Barovia at all levels,and in all the Undermountain zones.
This one shows several levels in Wyllowwood, including the discrepancy of the Basilisk Cave.
All the final levels...
Finally the dungeons, to get these values I went to the first campsite (an adventure in VT and CN) and then waited a minute or so to get my data. There shouldn't be any variation from the original Barovia and Catacombs 70 stats for ToNG, FBI and CR, the other dungeons of course should show some reduction, but the wild variation and the inconsistencies show that things are just not functioning correctly.
So.... I belive that I wont be alone in "I dont care" approach to my stats? Cant remember if in any other MMOs I played when being asked about my stats I was answering - dont know/dont care...... or LOL "fluctuating"
But that new system/scaling.... I start to wonder if its not working like a kind of a smoke screen...
I mean come on...campaign boons irrelevent, mounts insygnias/bonuses irrelevant, enchantments irrelevant, ability points irrelevant..... well why not statistics irrelevant too? I know.. sound ridiculous.... but....
I start to belive that it all leads to a point when real change on toons performance would be a skill magnitude change, while all toys like mounts, enchants and even a gear are pretty much just a cosmetics here - to keep us busy....
Who would loose their time to check its ratings changes like every 3 minutes depending where you are? All what would matter is if we are doing our job or not.
So.. pre MOD 16 system was full of bugs and exploits but it also included a tons of real choices in builds - witch allowed a player to go with his toons performance way to far - breaking a system, and that was bad - I have to admit that.
After MOD 16 it seems that in a new system toons will be in fact a clones, unable to perform outside of predetrmined frames no matter how hard we gona try, but it will be covered with thick smoke screen, providing illusion of choices....
There is simply no other explanation for all ot this going on.... and if a MOD 16 gona hit live server like this.....
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Like I stated in another thread, lower instances should not scale the player level or item level but instead simply enforce a set value for all stats, AKA maximum allowed stat for said zone. This would make balancing easier. It is simply set the stat and forget. Let higher level players enjoy the extra stats as they EARNED it and should be able to feel stronger in lower level zones.
Hmm you do notice that "cap" that enforces a set value on all stats is the exact opposite of: "higher level players enjoy the extra stats as they EARNED it and should be able to feel stronger in lower level zones"
Any point in stat said higher level players will have above the cap is useless. And if the cap is high so that high level players enjoy the stats in your system then the cap -> your scaling model is not working.
The current system is in part like that, uses caps on gear. And this is why it is so bad.
The solution is the opposite of caps. Any uncapped diminishing return function based on the difference in levels or some content difficulty rating is the solution.
Approximated comparisons of R14 Weapon enchantments: Assumes near-cap stats, 4 thousand base damage, 15k normal DPS, and ignores the 5% damage boost common to all of them.
- GOOD - Vorpal: +2,500 dps, +1% critical hit chance. Lightning: +2,000 dps (half vs single targets) Bronze: +750 dps, enemies -3% deflection, all allies up to +750 dps
- POOR - Lifedrink: Heals you for about 1000 health per second Holy: All allies gain +1% defense and are healed for approximately 100 Health per second Frost: Targets are slowed 30% and their encounter recharge is reduced by 15%. (Situationally BiS) Terror: 50% chance to root a target on Daily use (for 3 seconds), targets -1% awareness
To balance these out I recommend nerf the best and buff the worst: Reduce Vorpal from +50% critical severity to +25% critical severity. Double the chance to root, and triple the awareness debuff of Terror enchantment.
To make Plaguefire different from Flaming: Double the damage done by Plaguefire each second, but remove it's AoE damage. Triple the current AoE damage of Flaming enchantment, and have it debuff critical instead of critical resist.
you are calling for nerfs and buffs due to approximates and assumptions? smh
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arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
@noworries#8859 why when i add the total of +8 point to ability score INT i get and +2.5% to magical damage, max points?? always was 1% if over 10 points on int, whith these small percentage values makes ability score useless to boost damage, i wonder if all players will stick to max cha ability scores values instead of damage ability scores, with the nerf on encounters/dailiypower damage values, removal of power stat from companion gear, removal of power from char rings, nerf on weapons damage values(fom a 9-10k damge weapon to a level 80 4k damage weapon. really??? how can dev team self destruct this game from inside with these bad decisions without community polls to ask for their opinion on the changes you all are trying to change the game without taking playerbase feedback into consideration, cryptic studios way of working and devs are puppets towards those goals and killing a d&d franchise is on their goal shame that had such a good fluid fight style is killed by dumbing down the game with such lazy coding.
Like I stated in another thread, lower instances should not scale the player level or item level but instead simply enforce a set value for all stats, AKA maximum allowed stat for said zone. This would make balancing easier. It is simply set the stat and forget. Let higher level players enjoy the extra stats as they EARNED it and should be able to feel stronger in lower level zones.
Hmm you do notice that "cap" that enforces a set value on all stats is the exact opposite of: "higher level players enjoy the extra stats as they EARNED it and should be able to feel stronger in lower level zones"
Any point in stat said higher level players will have above the cap is useless. And if the cap is high so that high level players enjoy the stats in your system then the cap -> your scaling model is not working.
The current system is in part like that, uses caps on gear. And this is why it is so bad.
The solution is the opposite of caps. Any uncapped diminishing return function based on the difference in levels or some content difficulty rating is the solution.
I never said the solution I listed is perfect, but it is better than scaling by level or IL. Both level and item level scaling assumes that all players of the same level or item level have the same stats and that is not the case. Players focus differently on their stat resulting in players having different stats and when you scale like this you are gimping players in an ineffective manor causing issues for the player, especially if it is done by the character level.
As for your solution it is actually additional coding beyond setting a hard value for each zone. Your solution would require proper programming that is error free vs. a hard coded value you enter into a table. Given Cryptic history of delivering code, I prefer the method I listed as it should be easier to implement and less likely to result in error. Both solutions can have problems.
Within my solution the devs can actually provide a bump in allowed stats to give players that sense of character progression.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Like I stated in another thread, lower instances should not scale the player level or item level but instead simply enforce a set value for all stats, AKA maximum allowed stat for said zone. This would make balancing easier. It is simply set the stat and forget. Let higher level players enjoy the extra stats as they EARNED it and should be able to feel stronger in lower level zones.
Hmm you do notice that "cap" that enforces a set value on all stats is the exact opposite of: "higher level players enjoy the extra stats as they EARNED it and should be able to feel stronger in lower level zones"
Any point in stat said higher level players will have above the cap is useless. And if the cap is high so that high level players enjoy the stats in your system then the cap -> your scaling model is not working.
The current system is in part like that, uses caps on gear. And this is why it is so bad.
The solution is the opposite of caps. Any uncapped diminishing return function based on the difference in levels or some content difficulty rating is the solution.
I never said the solution I listed is perfect, but it is better than scaling by level or IL. Both level and item level scaling assumes that all players of the same level or item level have the same stats and that is not the case. Players focus differently on their stat resulting in players having different stats and when you scale like this you are gimping players in an ineffective manor causing issues for the player, especially if it is done by the character level.
As for your solution it is actually additional coding beyond setting a hard value for each zone. Your solution would require proper programming that is error free vs. a hard coded value you enter into a table. Given Cryptic history of delivering code, I prefer the method I listed as it should be easier to implement and less likely to result in error. Both solutions can have problems.
Within my solution the devs can actually provide a bump in allowed stats to give players that sense of character progression.
I believe you miss the meaning behind scaling, and the effect of a cap. Please check various scaling functions, Linear, Bi-Linear, etc..
Any proper scaling function, allows players to benefit from any stat points they have, if they spread them on all stats, or one single stats. Adding any point to their stats will be still beneficial after scaling.
Capping to any fixed value does exactly the opposite, various players will get some of their stats useless due to the cap, any progress they will do will be met with a cap. Players having much more stats in high level gear will cap all of your 'scaled' stats, hence they will have 0 progress. Exactly the opposite of what you aim to achieve.
Do you understand how scaling currently works and why it is bad? It is bad because it caps on gear like enchants. There is no difference if you have rank 8 or rank 15, they are all capped at 8. So... No progress due to cap. Your suggestion is to make it even worse. 0 progress at all from all sources due to static cap per zone.
Also - adding a scaling function on the main stats is trivial. Creating one is also not complex, today you can fit any number of desired points and get a function. In general there are plenty of known and simple functions to use for DR. for example X^(1/a) for a > 1 increase a by 0.1 per zone level difference (for example) and you are done.
As for your solution it is actually additional coding beyond setting a hard value for each zone. Your solution would require proper programming that is error free vs. a hard coded value you enter into a table. Given Cryptic history of delivering code, I prefer the method I listed as it should be easier to implement and less likely to result in error. Both solutions can have problems.
Diminishing returns on stats were around since Mod 4/5 to my knowledge, probably earlier. They weren't based off zone (I recall they were partially based on level, but it's been too long since I looked at kaelac stuff), but they existed.
I don't know the engine specifics at all, but it might end up being more work having to set an individual cap for each individual stat zone and each individual zone (including future modules' zones) rather than creating a formula and applying it for all zones.
Though I doubt there would be any dim. returns anyways, considering that any mathematical formulas past multiplication/division seem to scare people off.
nerf on weapons damage values(fom a 9-10k damge weapon to a level 80 4k damage weapon.
Weapon damage wasn't technically nerfed, it was player stats and buffs that were (or is removed more accurate?).
Right now on live, most players' weapon damage is sitting around the 3000 mark sans level base, with GWF being the weirdo class approaching 4000 weapon damage.
But otherwise, I'm with you on the ability score changes being a poor idea.
Like I stated in another thread, lower instances should not scale the player level or item level but instead simply enforce a set value for all stats, AKA maximum allowed stat for said zone. This would make balancing easier. It is simply set the stat and forget. Let higher level players enjoy the extra stats as they EARNED it and should be able to feel stronger in lower level zones.
Hmm you do notice that "cap" that enforces a set value on all stats is the exact opposite of: "higher level players enjoy the extra stats as they EARNED it and should be able to feel stronger in lower level zones"
Any point in stat said higher level players will have above the cap is useless. And if the cap is high so that high level players enjoy the stats in your system then the cap -> your scaling model is not working.
The current system is in part like that, uses caps on gear. And this is why it is so bad.
The solution is the opposite of caps. Any uncapped diminishing return function based on the difference in levels or some content difficulty rating is the solution.
I never said the solution I listed is perfect, but it is better than scaling by level or IL. Both level and item level scaling assumes that all players of the same level or item level have the same stats and that is not the case. Players focus differently on their stat resulting in players having different stats and when you scale like this you are gimping players in an ineffective manor causing issues for the player, especially if it is done by the character level.
As for your solution it is actually additional coding beyond setting a hard value for each zone. Your solution would require proper programming that is error free vs. a hard coded value you enter into a table. Given Cryptic history of delivering code, I prefer the method I listed as it should be easier to implement and less likely to result in error. Both solutions can have problems.
Within my solution the devs can actually provide a bump in allowed stats to give players that sense of character progression.
I believe you miss the meaning behind scaling, and the effect of a cap. Please check various scaling functions, Linear, Bi-Linear, etc..
Any proper scaling function, allows players to benefit from any stat points they have, if they spread them on all stats, or one single stats. Adding any point to their stats will be still beneficial after scaling.
Capping to any fixed value does exactly the opposite, various players will get some of their stats useless due to the cap, any progress they will do will be met with a cap. Players having much more stats in high level gear will cap all of your 'scaled' stats, hence they will have 0 progress. Exactly the opposite of what you aim to achieve.
Do you understand how scaling currently works and why it is bad? It is bad because it caps on gear like enchants. There is no difference if you have rank 8 or rank 15, they are all capped at 8. So... No progress due to cap. Your suggestion is to make it even worse. 0 progress at all from all sources due to static cap per zone.
Also - adding a scaling function on the main stats is trivial. Creating one is also not complex, today you can fit any number of desired points and get a function. In general there are plenty of known and simple functions to use for DR. for example X^(1/a) for a > 1 increase a by 0.1 per zone level difference (for example) and you are done.
I... really don't think "enchant caps" are the problem. You can say that it's frustrating to see your enchantments scaled down to rank 8, but that cap is NOT why 80s are coming out weaker than 70s. The problem is that the scaling is inconsistent, opaque, and overly aggressive.
It's funny. You'd think, with the new, highly linear "1000 pts = 1%" math, it'd be really easy to just subtract the the difference between the current zone's benchmarks and L80 open world benchmarks to give you the same percentages in every rating stat that you have unscaled. Even on live, it doesn't work that way, but with the simpler system math, the code shouldn't be too fiddly.
2
lordaeolosMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
I... really don't think "enchant caps" are the problem. You can say that it's frustrating to see your enchantments scaled down to rank 8, but that cap is NOT why 80s are coming out weaker than 70s. The problem is that the scaling is inconsistent, opaque, and overly aggressive.
It's funny. You'd think, with the new, highly linear "1000 pts = 1%" math, it'd be really easy to just subtract the the difference between the current zone's benchmarks and L80 open world benchmarks to give you the same percentages in every rating stat that you have unscaled. Even on live, it doesn't work that way, but with the simpler system math, the code shouldn't be too fiddly.
Scaling is all over the place, not the same in every zone, and can even be inconsistent in the same zone. You can try this by taking a character copy it twice to preview one a straight copy from live, one a version you level to 80, keep the same exact gear, companion, and enchants... and take those characters to a level 70 zone... the character you leveled to 80 will usually have lower stats in that zone (again inconsistent), which means you leveled so you could get weaker in 99% of the content available to play.
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Fenrir's point is that because they've simplified the stats and code so much, so they say, that stat capping should be easy for them. The system shouldn't be so wonky. Honest scaling should be easy for them too, that math isn't too hard either. Yet we're seeing a seriously HAMSTER and cack-handed scaling system that doesn't work at all. And bottom line is that we shouldn't be.
4
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Like I stated in another thread, lower instances should not scale the player level or item level but instead simply enforce a set value for all stats, AKA maximum allowed stat for said zone. This would make balancing easier. It is simply set the stat and forget. Let higher level players enjoy the extra stats as they EARNED it and should be able to feel stronger in lower level zones.
Hmm you do notice that "cap" that enforces a set value on all stats is the exact opposite of: "higher level players enjoy the extra stats as they EARNED it and should be able to feel stronger in lower level zones"
Any point in stat said higher level players will have above the cap is useless. And if the cap is high so that high level players enjoy the stats in your system then the cap -> your scaling model is not working.
The current system is in part like that, uses caps on gear. And this is why it is so bad.
The solution is the opposite of caps. Any uncapped diminishing return function based on the difference in levels or some content difficulty rating is the solution.
I never said the solution I listed is perfect, but it is better than scaling by level or IL. Both level and item level scaling assumes that all players of the same level or item level have the same stats and that is not the case. Players focus differently on their stat resulting in players having different stats and when you scale like this you are gimping players in an ineffective manor causing issues for the player, especially if it is done by the character level.
As for your solution it is actually additional coding beyond setting a hard value for each zone. Your solution would require proper programming that is error free vs. a hard coded value you enter into a table. Given Cryptic history of delivering code, I prefer the method I listed as it should be easier to implement and less likely to result in error. Both solutions can have problems.
Within my solution the devs can actually provide a bump in allowed stats to give players that sense of character progression.
I believe you miss the meaning behind scaling, and the effect of a cap. Please check various scaling functions, Linear, Bi-Linear, etc..
Any proper scaling function, allows players to benefit from any stat points they have, if they spread them on all stats, or one single stats. Adding any point to their stats will be still beneficial after scaling.
Capping to any fixed value does exactly the opposite, various players will get some of their stats useless due to the cap, any progress they will do will be met with a cap. Players having much more stats in high level gear will cap all of your 'scaled' stats, hence they will have 0 progress. Exactly the opposite of what you aim to achieve.
Do you understand how scaling currently works and why it is bad? It is bad because it caps on gear like enchants. There is no difference if you have rank 8 or rank 15, they are all capped at 8. So... No progress due to cap. Your suggestion is to make it even worse. 0 progress at all from all sources due to static cap per zone.
Also - adding a scaling function on the main stats is trivial. Creating one is also not complex, today you can fit any number of desired points and get a function. In general there are plenty of known and simple functions to use for DR. for example X^(1/a) for a > 1 increase a by 0.1 per zone level difference (for example) and you are done.
I... really don't think "enchant caps" are the problem. You can say that it's frustrating to see your enchantments scaled down to rank 8, but that cap is NOT why 80s are coming out weaker than 70s. The problem is that the scaling is inconsistent, opaque, and overly aggressive.
It's funny. You'd think, with the new, highly linear "1000 pts = 1%" math, it'd be really easy to just subtract the the difference between the current zone's benchmarks and L80 open world benchmarks to give you the same percentages in every rating stat that you have unscaled. Even on live, it doesn't work that way, but with the simpler system math, the code shouldn't be too fiddly.
You are correct in terms that there are many problems, but assuming it will not jump all over and work as designed, caps are the exact things that kills progression, and there is no evading it. My 'bad' comment was in the context of the no progress due to the caps already set in place. In general It is currently bad in terms of both concept and issues with implementation.
The whole idea of the stat - counter stat system is that we will always gain stats, and the mobs will get counter stats, hence, in a mod or two we will have overall higher stats by thousands yet will remain in the same effective percent due to counter stats of the end-game mobs. Now imagine if a cap set on stats, under the current global caps, on all previous zones (the suggested scaling system). You will have all your stats capped by that lower cap, and no matter what you will do you will not get anything higher, you are forever stuck at those caps, no matter how much progress you will make in the game overall.
As I've wrote, it is exactly the opposite of the suggested solution of people enjoying their progress, and contrary to the whole concepts of MMOs, progress.
Like I stated in another thread, lower instances should not scale the player level or item level but instead simply enforce a set value for all stats, AKA maximum allowed stat for said zone. This would make balancing easier. It is simply set the stat and forget. Let higher level players enjoy the extra stats as they EARNED it and should be able to feel stronger in lower level zones.
This won't happen this late in the process, but...
Wouldn't it make more sense to scale stats as opposing %? If a level 80 has "100%" (i.e. enough to overcome resistances for offence) of a stat (66,000 in this case), that'd translate to 100% at level 70 - which is 57,000. The max. numbers are already well known, so translating things like this seems more manageable than whatever system is currently in place.
The only fly in the ointment would be HP, but that should be relatively translatable, shouldn't it?
I would also argue in favor of scaling players to slightly higher power levels (+3-7 levels) over the zone average; so level 75-ish in a level 70 zone. It preserves that sense of gained power and mastery, but not completely supreme. Dungeons - maybe just +0-1 level bonus to maintain a bit of a bonus, but not too much, and avoid speedruns.
The only stats that need to scale are HP, Power and Weapon Damage and maybe Critical Severity, everything else has a hard cap (50% or 100%).
That’s how the system is supposed to work at least.
So stats other than HP, Power and Weapon Damage don’t need to be scaled at all.
Not scaling them rewards players for progressing in the game and does provide the benefit of making lower level content easier, which is what people expect! But the hard caps on effectiveness means that being BIS makes no more difference for lower level content than being average if you are higher level, as long as you hit the lower level’s cap.
Then the current level 70 dungeons need to be made level 80. They should fit between normal level 80 and LotMM, even if that means increasing the base value for LotMM.
So if 80 has a 10000 base, KR, SoT, VT, MC should be 11000, ToS, CC, GWD, 12000, CN, 12500, FBI, ToNG, CR, 13000 and LotMM 14000. (Yes that is an increase in difficulty for LotMM as I understand it, but frankly I think it needs it.)
I ultimately don’t care if BIS players and near BIS players can solo dungeons or do 5dps runs or whatever. As long as average teams still want 3/1/1 to run the top 2 or 3 tiers of dungeon the module will achieve its goals in my eyes.
By far my biggest frustration with the current system, is that I don’t know what my stats are at any given time, they need to stop moving so you actually can understand them and are not just pursuing a myth.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Can someone please tell me what zone I can go to in order to see my base stats in a reliable way? Is there such a zone? Because there really needs to be. Your level shouldn't matter, it should work for any level to show you your base stats at that level. I am so frustrated by this when trying to set up my characters!
I would think this is PE but my stats jump around with no changes (I’m avoiding campfire and other bonuses).
Examples from today (none of these are reliably reproducible, but because I've been making a lot of notes about my stats I've seem all kinds of inconsistent things occur):
1. Sitting in PE for a while, no buffs on. Make note of stats. Log out, then log back in, (wait for companion’s gift) and I’ve suddenly gained 1000-3000 in various stats. Huh?
2. Change out a single stat (ex: Crit Strike enchantment to accuracy), and while my accuracy and Crit change, so does armor pen, by a significant difference (was about 4k this time). Log out and back in again, and it looks normal again.
3. Have an augment companion out and make note of starting stats, switch to a summoned pet, then switch back to the original augment pet and your stats may be very different than your starting stats.
Can someone please tell me what zone I can go to in order to see my base stats in a reliable way? Is there such a zone? Because there really needs to be. Your level shouldn't matter, it should work for any level to show you your base stats at that level. I am so frustrated by this when trying to set up my characters!
I would think this is PE but my stats jump around with no changes (I’m avoiding campfire and other bonuses).
Examples from today (none of these are reliably reproducible, but because I've been making a lot of notes about my stats I've seem all kinds of inconsistent things occur):
1. Sitting in PE for a while, no buffs on. Make note of stats. Log out, then log back in, (wait for companion’s gift) and I’ve suddenly gained 1000-3000 in various stats. Huh?
2. Change out a single stat (ex: Crit Strike enchantment to accuracy), and while my accuracy and Crit change, so does armor pen, by a significant difference (was about 4k this time). Log out and back in again, and it looks normal again.
3. Have an augment companion out and make note of starting stats, switch to a summoned pet, then switch back to the original augment pet and your stats may be very different than your starting stats.
I have no idea what my base stats actually are.
So much this.
Nothing shows that this scaling system is breaking the game as much as these sorts of problems.
You can enter a zone and have 1000s more stats than you will have 10s later. Standing in different spots in the same zone changes your stats. Holding your mouse differently changes your stats it feels like.
Get rid of the scaling system entirely.
Then take 6 months to get it working correctly in all instances, then announce it as coming as part of whatever the next mod is to maximise play test time.
But this is in no state to go live and 2 weeks seems like an unreasonable amount of time to fix such a malfunctioning major element of the game. Better to excise it and get everything else working properly.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Can someone please tell me what zone I can go to in order to see my base stats in a reliable way? Is there such a zone? Because there really needs to be. Your level shouldn't matter, it should work for any level to show you your base stats at that level. I am so frustrated by this when trying to set up my characters!
I would think this is PE but my stats jump around with no changes (I’m avoiding campfire and other bonuses).
Examples from today (none of these are reliably reproducible, but because I've been making a lot of notes about my stats I've seem all kinds of inconsistent things occur):
1. Sitting in PE for a while, no buffs on. Make note of stats. Log out, then log back in, (wait for companion’s gift) and I’ve suddenly gained 1000-3000 in various stats. Huh?
2. Change out a single stat (ex: Crit Strike enchantment to accuracy), and while my accuracy and Crit change, so does armor pen, by a significant difference (was about 4k this time). Log out and back in again, and it looks normal again.
3. Have an augment companion out and make note of starting stats, switch to a summoned pet, then switch back to the original augment pet and your stats may be very different than your starting stats.
I have no idea what my base stats actually are.
So much this.
Nothing shows that this scaling system is breaking the game as much as these sorts of problems.
You can enter a zone and have 1000s more stats than you will have 10s later. Standing in different spots in the same zone changes your stats. Holding your mouse differently changes your stats it feels like.
Get rid of the scaling system entirely.
Then take 6 months to get it working correctly in all instances, then announce it as coming as part of whatever the next mod is to maximise play test time.
But this is in no state to go live and 2 weeks seems like an unreasonable amount of time to fix such a malfunctioning major element of the game. Better to excise it and get everything else working properly.
with 2 weeks before release the final copy should be in qa already
Comments
Particularly a problem when the tank's HP are nerfed to the ground as well.
On the subject of HP, something is wrong with Con.
Con 21, 410373 HP. +11% HP
Con 28, 411683 HP +14% HP
That's not a 3% difference and it should be a 7% difference!
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Sometimes I get just the feats, other times it respects everything from that page..
Every time it resets your powers...
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
The only challenge with that is not to fall asleep or get bored to death.
Exactly my tought, also placed this feedback a few times already...
Love the idea, +5000. Scaling is HAMSTER right now.
Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
Assumes near-cap stats, 4 thousand base damage, 15k normal DPS, and ignores the 5% damage boost common to all of them.
- GOOD -
Vorpal: +2,500 dps, +1% critical hit chance.
Lightning: +2,000 dps (half vs single targets)
Bronze: +750 dps, enemies -3% deflection, all allies up to +750 dps
- AVERAGE -
Prominence: +170 dps 50' AoE, absorbs 500 incoming dps
Plaguefire: +600 dps, targets -2% critical avoidance, +200 dps NEAR' AoE
Flaming: +600 dps, targets -2% critical avoidance, +100 dps NEAR' AoE
Dread: +800 dps, targets -3% defense
Bilethorn:+800 dps, target speed reduced about 10%
- POOR -
Lifedrink: Heals you for about 1000 health per second
Holy: All allies gain +1% defense and are healed for approximately 100 Health per second
Frost: Targets are slowed 30% and their encounter recharge is reduced by 15%. (Situationally BiS)
Terror: 50% chance to root a target on Daily use (for 3 seconds), targets -1% awareness
To balance these out I recommend nerf the best and buff the worst:
Reduce Vorpal from +50% critical severity to +35% critical severity.
Reduce Lightning damage from 50% base to 40% base.
Reduce Bronzewood deflection debuff to half.
Triple the awareness debuff of Terror enchantment.
To make Plaguefire different from Flaming:
Double the damage done by Plaguefire each second, but remove it's AoE damage.
Triple the current AoE damage of Flaming enchantment, and have it debuff critical instead of critical resist.
Cant remember if in any other MMOs I played when being asked about my stats I was answering - dont know/dont care...... or LOL "fluctuating"
But that new system/scaling.... I start to wonder if its not working like a kind of a smoke screen...
I mean come on...campaign boons irrelevent, mounts insygnias/bonuses irrelevant, enchantments irrelevant, ability points irrelevant..... well why not statistics irrelevant too? I know.. sound ridiculous.... but....
I start to belive that it all leads to a point when real change on toons performance would be a skill magnitude change, while all toys like mounts, enchants and even a gear are pretty much just a cosmetics here - to keep us busy....
Who would loose their time to check its ratings changes like every 3 minutes depending where you are?
All what would matter is if we are doing our job or not.
So.. pre MOD 16 system was full of bugs and exploits but it also included a tons of real choices in builds - witch allowed a player to go with his toons performance way to far - breaking a system, and that was bad - I have to admit that.
After MOD 16 it seems that in a new system toons will be in fact a clones, unable to perform outside of predetrmined frames no matter how hard we gona try, but it will be covered with thick smoke screen, providing illusion of choices....
There is simply no other explanation for all ot this going on.... and if a MOD 16 gona hit live server like this.....
"higher level players enjoy the extra stats as they EARNED it and should be able to feel stronger in lower level zones"
Any point in stat said higher level players will have above the cap is useless. And if the cap is high so that high level players enjoy the stats in your system then the cap -> your scaling model is not working.
The current system is in part like that, uses caps on gear. And this is why it is so bad.
The solution is the opposite of caps. Any uncapped diminishing return function based on the difference in levels or some content difficulty rating is the solution.
As for your solution it is actually additional coding beyond setting a hard value for each zone. Your solution would require proper programming that is error free vs. a hard coded value you enter into a table. Given Cryptic history of delivering code, I prefer the method I listed as it should be easier to implement and less likely to result in error. Both solutions can have problems.
Within my solution the devs can actually provide a bump in allowed stats to give players that sense of character progression.
Please check various scaling functions, Linear, Bi-Linear, etc..
Any proper scaling function, allows players to benefit from any stat points they have, if they spread them on all stats, or one single stats. Adding any point to their stats will be still beneficial after scaling.
Capping to any fixed value does exactly the opposite, various players will get some of their stats useless due to the cap, any progress they will do will be met with a cap. Players having much more stats in high level gear will cap all of your 'scaled' stats, hence they will have 0 progress. Exactly the opposite of what you aim to achieve.
Do you understand how scaling currently works and why it is bad? It is bad because it caps on gear like enchants. There is no difference if you have rank 8 or rank 15, they are all capped at 8. So... No progress due to cap.
Your suggestion is to make it even worse. 0 progress at all from all sources due to static cap per zone.
Also - adding a scaling function on the main stats is trivial. Creating one is also not complex, today you can fit any number of desired points and get a function. In general there are plenty of known and simple functions to use for DR. for example X^(1/a) for a > 1
increase a by 0.1 per zone level difference (for example) and you are done.
how did you know janne was running an illicit clothing store based out of a broken down manor?Diminishing returns on stats were around since Mod 4/5 to my knowledge, probably earlier. They weren't based off zone (I recall they were partially based on level, but it's been too long since I looked at kaelac stuff), but they existed.I don't know the engine specifics at all, but it might end up being more work having to set an individual cap for each individual stat zone and each individual zone (including future modules' zones) rather than creating a formula and applying it for all zones.
Though I doubt there would be any dim. returns anyways, considering that any mathematical formulas past multiplication/division seem to scare people off. Weapon damage wasn't technically nerfed, it was player stats and buffs that were (or is removed more accurate?).
Right now on live, most players' weapon damage is sitting around the 3000 mark sans level base, with GWF being the weirdo class approaching 4000 weapon damage.
But otherwise, I'm with you on the ability score changes being a poor idea.
The problem is that the scaling is inconsistent, opaque, and overly aggressive.
It's funny. You'd think, with the new, highly linear "1000 pts = 1%" math, it'd be really easy to just subtract the the difference between the current zone's benchmarks and L80 open world benchmarks to give you the same percentages in every rating stat that you have unscaled. Even on live, it doesn't work that way, but with the simpler system math, the code shouldn't be too fiddly.
Guild Leader: Mistaken Identity (formerly Midnight Express)
My Twitch Stream
See my Youtube Channel for guides and more
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
The whole idea of the stat - counter stat system is that we will always gain stats, and the mobs will get counter stats, hence, in a mod or two we will have overall higher stats by thousands yet will remain in the same effective percent due to counter stats of the end-game mobs.
Now imagine if a cap set on stats, under the current global caps, on all previous zones (the suggested scaling system). You will have all your stats capped by that lower cap, and no matter what you will do you will not get anything higher, you are forever stuck at those caps, no matter how much progress you will make in the game overall.
As I've wrote, it is exactly the opposite of the suggested solution of people enjoying their progress, and contrary to the whole concepts of MMOs, progress.
PS: The game had severe, asymptotic diminishing returns on all stats except power since beta until mod 6.
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/3dqpvhuavj
Wouldn't it make more sense to scale stats as opposing %? If a level 80 has "100%" (i.e. enough to overcome resistances for offence) of a stat (66,000 in this case), that'd translate to 100% at level 70 - which is 57,000. The max. numbers are already well known, so translating things like this seems more manageable than whatever system is currently in place.
The only fly in the ointment would be HP, but that should be relatively translatable, shouldn't it?
I would also argue in favor of scaling players to slightly higher power levels (+3-7 levels) over the zone average; so level 75-ish in a level 70 zone. It preserves that sense of gained power and mastery, but not completely supreme. Dungeons - maybe just +0-1 level bonus to maintain a bit of a bonus, but not too much, and avoid speedruns.
That’s how the system is supposed to work at least.
So stats other than HP, Power and Weapon Damage don’t need to be scaled at all.
Not scaling them rewards players for progressing in the game and does provide the benefit of making lower level content easier, which is what people expect! But the hard caps on effectiveness means that being BIS makes no more difference for lower level content than being average if you are higher level, as long as you hit the lower level’s cap.
Then the current level 70 dungeons need to be made level 80.
They should fit between normal level 80 and LotMM, even if that means increasing the base value for LotMM.
So if 80 has a 10000 base, KR, SoT, VT, MC should be 11000, ToS, CC, GWD, 12000, CN, 12500, FBI, ToNG, CR, 13000 and LotMM 14000. (Yes that is an increase in difficulty for LotMM as I understand it, but frankly I think it needs it.)
I ultimately don’t care if BIS players and near BIS players can solo dungeons or do 5dps runs or whatever. As long as average teams still want 3/1/1 to run the top 2 or 3 tiers of dungeon the module will achieve its goals in my eyes.
By far my biggest frustration with the current system, is that I don’t know what my stats are at any given time, they need to stop moving so you actually can understand them and are not just pursuing a myth.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I would think this is PE but my stats jump around with no changes (I’m avoiding campfire and other bonuses).
Examples from today (none of these are reliably reproducible, but because I've been making a lot of notes about my stats I've seem all kinds of inconsistent things occur):
1. Sitting in PE for a while, no buffs on. Make note of stats. Log out, then log back in, (wait for companion’s gift) and I’ve suddenly gained 1000-3000 in various stats. Huh?
2. Change out a single stat (ex: Crit Strike enchantment to accuracy), and while my accuracy and Crit change, so does armor pen, by a significant difference (was about 4k this time). Log out and back in again, and it looks normal again.
3. Have an augment companion out and make note of starting stats, switch to a summoned pet, then switch back to the original augment pet and your stats may be very different than your starting stats.
I have no idea what my base stats actually are.
Nothing shows that this scaling system is breaking the game as much as these sorts of problems.
You can enter a zone and have 1000s more stats than you will have 10s later. Standing in different spots in the same zone changes your stats. Holding your mouse differently changes your stats it feels like.
Get rid of the scaling system entirely.
Then take 6 months to get it working correctly in all instances, then announce it as coming as part of whatever the next mod is to maximise play test time.
But this is in no state to go live and 2 weeks seems like an unreasonable amount of time to fix such a malfunctioning major element of the game. Better to excise it and get everything else working properly.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.