Scourge Warlock's DPS reduced 50% on Preview

gabrieldourden

I agree with the OP on everything.

@tom : if you are a Temptlock BoVA, PoP and Dreadtheft beat everything else DPS-wise with a cub, no questions asked. No other rotation gets even close and the cub is about 65-70% of your damage.
If you play Damnation or Fury for pure DPS you're probably right about other rotations being better.
The point is that DPS-setups for SW at the moment are pretty much pointless as every other DPS will do better and Temptlock is the most viable spec with a mix of decent DPS, buffs and heals.

treesclimber

Let's have a little hope that devs make regularize the proc rate and make BG and HH work on templocs, that would be awesome.

kieranmtorn

Looks like I made a serious error, upgrading my SW this double RP weekend. Damn that was a lot of wasted RP & AD on my templock.

treesclimber

Hm...maybe bronzehood and tenebrous can compensate a bit for templocks that run full buffer build....for other SW's feytouched could be good but still bugged.

jaime4312

SW nerfed to the ground...

hadestemplar

godly3vil said:

bloodyspamer said:

godly3vil said:

Easy fix for the lazy devs, make PoP crit. Simple and effective.

Haven't u notice that even with owlbear cub companion we are not on par with other strikers.. Now take that companion away and u lose at least 25% dmg output by default. So hows that is fixing?

As a SW who uses HB for AoE and SB for ST OBC probably makes up about 10% max of my damage, even if this NinjaNerf is real I will lose maybe 5% max, which isn't that bad.

Also on PS4 at least, there is less than a handful of people who I have played with that can beat me on the paingiver chart, granted that there is quite a lot of less skilled players of other classes out there. I only know of maybe 3 other SWs that can keep up and only 1 who can beat me and all of us have no issues dishing out more damage that 99% of other DPS chars, again, due to them not knowing how to get the most out of their classes.

This is by no means me agreeing with any nerf that effects our class by the way, I am just saying that skill beats unskilled no matter what class. I also hate that we have been severely "rebalanced" multiple times and yet other classes haven't even been touched, even if these "fixes" have been to "fix" certain things that were broken. To me that means if anything we do need to be buffed in other ways. You won't ever see a SW being the sole striker class in an FBI speed-run video "hint hint" devs.

For SB maybe this companion is less important, because due it's burst SS encounter.
However, for HB OBC is companion which must be used by default.

From your quote seems u will lose from 5 to 10%. So either you haven't reach high power, or utilizing PoP not so well.

I mean there are still Hellbringers who use PoP just as buff, some do use just for it's debuff + dps.
However, wise warlock, pick feat, power of nine h3lls, and utilize PoP as buff + dps + debuff.

Also if u keep enemies inside PoP affect area, you deal loads of dmg. Just to remind OBC deal 50% dmg based on your power.
Means more power = more dmg you deal. And PoP deal dmg every second. Now just try think, which other power combo could deal more dmg than PoP + OBC companion?

And now, think, that even now, with this combo, warlock is not even competing with other dmg dealers/strikers.

If PoP start crit, means OBC lose it's value. Means 25%+++ dmg outcome lose.. Even with crit u will not be able compensate OBC dealt dmg.


Just for fun, run x dungeon with OBC copanion activated, and then repeat same dungeon, without OBC companion..


By making PoP crit is same as suggest non crit build SW utilize Lostmouth artifact set...

fizgigtiznalkie

At least they didn't take it away completely like they did with pallys, lol. They really want the whole player base to rage quit.

godly3vil

Think about it, it's generally accepted that OBC gives most HB around 25-30% damage increase when used right, this means for someone like me who only uses HB for AoE situations that it accounts for a lot less than that, is that too hard to understand?

hadestemplar

godly3vil said:

As I said, for me, the way I play with multiple loadouts in a dungeon, OBC probably makes up around 10% max of my DPS, this is due to most of my damage coming from single target fights, like all other good SWs. Trust me, I know the worth of OBC on a pure HB SW, especially since I was one of the 1st people to buy one as soon as it dropped on PS4.


Just because there is a lot of bad SWs that give us a bad name doesn't mean there isn't a few of us that can still compete with the best of other classes.

For single target and also if using burst powers> KF, SS, FB, OBC companion don't bring much of benefits. But when comes either DoT like powers> PoP, DT, Bova, HG, WB, WH, OBC benefits start to shine.

IIt's same as Creeping Death feat,, With burst powers you do not proc them as much per encounter as with DoT based powers..


Next, My HB templocks build where around AoE. Gear, companions, artifacts and so one, around AoE, more enemies I fight, stronger I get.

For me, OBC gives 30%+ Dmg outcome,, OBC companion is same as Lostmouh set.


Hmm pure Furry. Means, You don't have Power of nine h3lls. means u lose extra PoP buffs enchantment.

only SB can go pure Furry, HB by not picking power of nine h3lls, become DuckOnPlate. Sit in poP effect area for buff is suicide.,
Use it as dps + debuff only = utilizing 60% of its real capability.

godly3vil said:

What I am saying is that because of these changes (if even real) people will just have to adapt and make use of the other builds instead of relying on the 2 most popular cookie cutter builds to try to make up for it.

Did you even read other posts within this thread?
Even with owlbear cub companion, SW is not consider as Striker anymore, plus in preview(this server/forum) devs shred away warlocks powers even more.
SW is kept in party due PoP + Power of nine h3ll provided buff, maybe debuff, thats it.

Any other dps/striker classes outdps warlock by default.. Plus, who cares single target striker, if other classes are Ok in aoe and single target.. Not mentioned, TR now is monster dmg dealer toward single target..

Furry = dps, can maybe rival heal DC, but it's still question do SW would catch DC..
damnation = is anyone even play them anyways? maybe 0.2% of all SW population. And so far have met only 1 sw who played as damanation, and his words about build where not the best ones..

Temptation = played since mod 10 as templock HB. It where Ok as healer, great aoe. But heck after heal OP got fixed, due it's healing spells interaction with SKT boons, it outheal and outdps templock by default, not mention provide more buffs..

So what other build players should adapt?

Within preview server, I did almost all possible warlock builds, And I know that there is no build which would give extra dmg increase.

And this is also key reason, that today I did last/final run dungeon run with warlock... There is no point rolling with dead class.


p,.s if u notice, lot of high end Sw players quited, either class or game.. When this preview module will get in live server,, There will be same effect as mod 6,.. warlock holocaust/extermination..

senseiwasd

You'll have to describe this build in more detail, because I bought a Transcendent Dread, and Transcendent Vorpal from the Preview Bizarre, respecced into Fury, respecced and equipped to critical (before recopying the character), and added a legendary Demonlord's Immortality set. With an 85% Critical Chance and a 185% Critical Severity, using either AoH/PoP/FB, or DF/PoP/FB, I can't get to even 70% of the damage I do in Mod12A with the IC build in Temptation BoVA/PoP/DF, regardless of what class feature combination I use, even with the Mod12A power docked and not using bonding stones. I even let the Preview guy use a fully loaded augment, with the new eldritch stones, so he has more power, and more ARP (and of course tons more Crit).

Granted, it's a lot worse in Temptation mode on Preview, with a 50% loss. No way to tell if how I'm healing in these tests - for all we know they nerfed that too, since they are ninja nerfing left and right. (Even in Live - seems DC's BtS/FF broke - and the Lion nerf I mentioned at the top.)

godly3vil

BloodySpammer, I give up. Considering power builds with low crit are pretty HAMSTER anyway I don't see the point in arguing further with you. Also templocks, to me, are only played by warlocks that don't know how to get competitive damage out of their SWs, what other point is there? If you want to play support, make a tank or DC.

I never said I am full fury, the one thing I agree with you on is PoTNH.

mamalion1234

godly3vil said:

BloodySpammer, I give up. Considering power builds with low crit are pretty HAMSTER anyway I don't see the point in arguing further with you. Also templocks, to me, are only played by warlocks that don't know how to get competitive damage out of their SWs, what other point is there? If you want to play support, make a tank or DC.

I never said I am full fury, the one thing I agree with you on is PoTNH.

Or they own already dps class or a dc and they wanted to try out a sw templock.

Are some players like the idea to be a support and hard one because is not easy to be a sw templock.

A templock power recovery build have great heal " when hit an enemy" .
It protects allies with pop and buff them ( not so strong buff but helps).
It has the dark revelry that boost movement and power that do not affect the companions and also he need to attack and lifesteal to able to proc it ( never saw my power on my dps classes to jump to high numbers even if the sw has pretty High base power like 50k)
IT deals some decent damage with owlbear but no way near to a pure dps ( we all know that owlbear very high numbers are coming from the high power share from other classes like 300k +debuffs ).
LAst it boost the lifesteal chance 5% with aura of cruelty.
DO you think the above were broken so they should kill those builds ( and the worst without a compensation) ?

jojo

i'm so upset right now. i don't even play a warlock, but it's making me furious that the devs stomp those who are already on the ground. some of my guildies spent hundreds of dollars and hours on their sws to just be slightly competitive and still had no chance to get in a speed run group. now they get slapped in the face and basically scammed by making their whole class even more useless than it has already been.

tom

Soon there wont be any Warlocks left and cryptic will be happy xd

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oggycz

I was in same situation with my OP, when they nerfed Owlbear with Burning light. Paid almost 5mil AD month before nerf.

jojo

yet you see a pally in every BiS group while sws can only hope for some pitty ._. @oggycz#5356

naoqueroforum

tilrod2 said:

I think the changes to the owlbear cub is fine, because I think it was never intendet that one class profits more from the cub than other. Since the rework of the owlbear the SW was the last class, which Encounter multiproc his effect. That this update hurt you so much is a bad side effect of a good change.

Sorry for my bad english, it isnt my first language.

No class should benefit more than another from a companion? What's wrong with different classes needing different companion setups? Even if it should be the case, shouldn't it be the same for enchants then as well? And buffs? Have you seen how much aura of courage and lightning can benefit a CW? Compare to what you can get from those two on a warlock. Have you seen holy avengers on GWFs? Gwf's which by the way somehow get over 2m hits on aura of courage, even if they have less HP than you. All the while proccing more AoC hits.

mebalz

well if the DEVs Pull this it will nerf the SW to the group the only class that needs a nerf is the GWF but they will never do that as the GWF even gets better stats on primal gear than SW well neverwinter you were fun for a while but looks like its time for better games

mebalz

tilrod2 said:

I think the changes to the owlbear cub is fine, because I think it was never intendet that one class profits more from the cub than other. Since the rework of the owlbear the SW was the last class, which Encounter multiproc his effect. That this update hurt you so much is a bad side effect of a good change.

Sorry for my bad english, it isnt my first language.

If they nerf the owlbear they need to look a boosting the SW in many other areas and It will be a dead class wont compete in DPS and templock wont heal as much which really at end game the best use of a warlock is to heal kind of funny if you think about it

hadestemplar

Personally I think top priority for Cryptic studio devs, would be, to unwire game codes mechanics..

Lets be hones, Original game coder is not in cryptic anymore. New programers don't have blueprints, guidelines or whatever u like to call it.

Each time they try rework = had to review pile of game code lines, and it's unefficient work.
If they would had fully detailed how all classes and mechanics work, then I can bet development time would be shorter, and easier to fix glitches/bad power interactions.

Good example other know mmorpg game> Lineage 2,. It had fully detailed notes, how each stuff work and interact. Actually u don't even need to be proffesionall coder/programer in order to fix game problems..
Personally I even made mods for that game...

And why I think Cryptic studio don't have such notes/blueprints. Is @rgutscheradev, post

I’ve finally found the wiring where overall healing suppression in PvP is attached. Right now, it’s an across-the-board 50% reduction on healing.

Now u all wondering, why I mentioning this in warlock related post?

Well its obvious. developers afraid to rework SW, It haven't receive decent rework. What have done where by @amenar, rework. But due it's time limitation he just fixed some old glitches, done small rework and thats it..

And now he work in other game company, and I can bet he also haven't left any notes :P

Means, all new coders/programers will had to dig whole game code once again..
And it's really annoying, to have tons of code lines..

Temptation where abandoned since mod 6, revived in mod 10. yet haven't receive rework since mod 6,. So I assume no one within staff know how the heck templock mechanics work in first place. :P

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viper100

what I don't understand is that you ask anyone on the game, everyyyyyyone says the same thing that warlocks kinda suck and the best I have managed to get from friends is almost all suck but you find on diamond sw every now and then. yes ive noticed basically all end game ones are good but for some reason anyone 14k and under just have no chance at all competeing with a 14k anything. why is it that all other dps class are actual dps characters and then 14k sw who is dps is just garbage and it really is just sad because 15k sw and tr have almost no chance getting into t9 and no body seems to enjoy sw in the party. everyone says they are "eh", "not good dps", "never have been that good" and the best comment ive gotten on a sw is "they look fun to play" never anything like their dps is awesome which we don't have to be running the paingiver table but at least let us give other gwf, cw, and hr a run for their money. sw never compete with actual normal dps like hr, cw, and obviously the gwf... and I personally run a sw and from my experience we are a terrible class to be until 16k and even then there is not really competing with the others. sw are getting nerfed even though nobody seems to like them anyways everyone wants hr and gwf and then dps tanks sw best bet seems to be running a dps templock build and teaming up with a dc and that's their highlight of the day but yea id love it if you guys could not nerf sw we really do have it kinda bad as no body is even a fan of sw its a shame starting this game and being like o this character looks awesome to play and then realizing later when you start running t2 and fbi every now and then that really you are HAMSTER and everyone else makes you look like you are getting carried. and I have run all kinds of builds and I don't see in what way this is fair to sw as we are already known to be bad.. it seriously common knowledge to everyone that sw is like the worst class now. like no joke at all. and I'm not saying there are not some amazing dps sw out there because there are. but overall those warlocks are 16k+ and the other 90% of us do not compete and everyone knows it. its literally such a common thing that nobody like sw. and it really sucks for people like me who just enjoy the way it looks to play a sw because they look so awesome to play the way the powers are and if you run tiefling then it just looks amazing and then were just eh..

andorrabell

x90210 said:

kiraskytower said:

I don't think they changed the uptime for this, more likely they just kept it from triggering every tick on certain warlock powers. For most other classes (like CW) the owlbear happens once when a power is triggered, not on every tick the power does damage. Sounds like they just fixed this so it works for SW like it does for CW or any other class.

The problem with this is the Owlbear Cub is the only thing that makes the SW viable as a DPS class, or allows Templocks to continue to dish out moderate DPS and still heal. This is why every SW over 10K has one. Without it, they are a junk class.

It would, of course, be better to boost them in some other way, rather than leaving the Owlbear Cub as it is, but the modification would have to be rather severe, as like OP said, it is not uncommon for a 10-14K IL SW to rely on Infantile Compensation for 70% of his damage.

PLEASE DO NOT NERF THIS WITHOUT FIXING OUR CLASS.
Of course it's stupid that this one companion was the only thing that make us workable.
This will break the class entirely if it comes in without some kind of fix.

PLEASE FIX SWS FIRST- NERF?FIX OWLBEAR AFTER. THis is not rocket science. Don't let this go live without helping us. We are already pretty much the least wanted DPS class. We are so far behind GWFs and HRs who know what they are doing that it hasn't been funny for a long time. This will make us unplayable. We are not kidding. HELP!

@nitocris83

muhammedwally

You guys must NOT play your own game. I picked warlock because of previous D&D experience and found I had chosen the HARDEST path. I gritted my teeth and held on to my ankles and took it like pro. Even with the owlbear cub we can't pull top Dmg. Talk about kicking someone when they are down, spay/neuter them and to keep them from EVER returning, BITE their ankles off. My main won't even be able to break out of a wet paper bag after you guys get done. I play for the FUN of it. Take that away and, well, easy choice, all for nothing, Cya neverwinter. Getting the owlbear cub was the ONE thing that kept me playing because without it, the class is useless unless you think the green flames look cool. Well, if the cloak tower will be about the only thing I can run, this is my first and last post.

jiubiizeekk

defiantone99 said:

I would bet that those saying it is nerfed so bad do not have guild boons on and are not accounting for bonding nerf.

Its proccing about half as often for me.

andrewsaraujo

I'm annoyed to know that our class will receive more and more nerfs the class that always lags behind comparing with other dps, I see in dg GF with the memso IL beating more than SW
it is difficult to continue in the game in this way, with investments of time and money in a class that is increasingly being forgotten.

senseiwasd

defiantone99 said:

I would bet that those saying it is nerfed so bad do not have guild boons on and are not accounting for bonding nerf.

RtFT

senseiwasd said:

VS.

(Each Panel Links to More Details)

In these tests, I dumped the Guild Power boon, and unsummoned the Companions. Since I can't turn off the Guild Boons entirely, I had to switch to ARP on the Mod12 Server, and unslot Prince of Hell for Shadow Walk on Mod12, but kept PoH on Preview and allowed the Preview copy of the toon an Augment with some ARP. This gives them both about 60% Resistance Ignored, and about 24K Power. PoP is hitting two Target Dummies - all other Encounters are hitting one. This is a SW with 13K Item Level.

senseiwasd said:

I bought a Transcendent Dread, and Transcendent Vorpal from the Preview Bizarre, respecced into Fury, respecced and equipped to critical (before recopying the character), and added a legendary Demonlord's Immortality set. With an 85% Critical Chance and a 185% Critical Severity, using either AoH/PoP/FB, or DF/PoP/FB, I can't get to even 70% of the damage I do in Mod12A with the IC build in Temptation BoVA/PoP/DF, regardless of what class feature combination I use, even with the Mod12A power docked and not using bonding stones. I even let the Preview guy use a fully loaded augment, with the new eldritch stones, so he has more power, and more ARP (and of course tons more Crit).

No. Pretty thoroughly compensated for that. Even gave the Preview guy significantly better stats - even optimized High-Crit Fury mode on Preview, with better stats, can't keep up with a nerfed Mod12A Temptation, which is just pathetic.

pyrosorcerer

I agree on the many times mentioned point that SW should not rely on a companion to deal their dps comparable to others. So fixing the owlbear cub is indeed needed, but with some compensation for it, and I got an idea that might be nice. (Pardon me if someone already posted the same or similar)

So most agree that the OBC brings our dps closer to that of other classes, so why not fix the multiproc from companion, but implement the bonus to be the way Pillar of Power works? This way you fix the buggy interaction between the OBC and Pillar of Power, but you keep the dps potential at a similar line. New SW won't be forced into buying a 700k-1mill AD costing companion to be a bit efficient, but can do it by default.

Pillar of Power gets an additional effect like this: "Deals 50% of your power to enemies standing inside the pillar for every tick".
There are some other things to put into perspective as well, will this proc creeping death? if so can we keep it at 50% power or reduce it some? Overall I think it would be a nice buff to the SW class. And honestly I would allow it to stay 50% if implemented and proccing creeping death.

mamalion1234

pyrosorcerer said:

I agree on the many times mentioned point that SW should not rely on a companion to deal their dps comparable to others. So fixing the owlbear cub is indeed needed, but with some compensation for it, and I got an idea that might be nice. (Pardon me if someone already posted the same or similar)

So most agree that the OBC brings our dps closer to that of other classes, so why not fix the multiproc from companion, but implement the bonus to be the way Pillar of Power works? This way you fix the buggy interaction between the OBC and Pillar of Power, but you keep the dps potential at a similar line. New SW won't be forced into buying a 700k-1mill AD costing companion to be a bit efficient, but can do it by default.

Pillar of Power gets an additional effect like this: "Deals 50% of your power to enemies standing inside the pillar for every tick".
There are some other things to put into perspective as well, will this proc creeping death? if so can we keep it at 50% power or reduce it some? Overall I think it would be a nice buff to the SW class. And honestly I would allow it to stay 50% if implemented and proccing creeping death.

I am not playing sw but i know some things from friends played the sw temp.

Your idea can be more interesting if pilar is critical hit and the 50% power thing to be for a non critical pilar.