Thank you too for testing CD! As for GoH, I'm on console so can't know for certain (I'm an ACT-less mortal ;_;) but it basically is similiar to KF in terms of damage, slightly better, at least from what I've seen, for example, GoH median hit > KF median hit by a lot and max damage potential GoH > KF as well. Edit: If using dread, GoH and KF should perfom more similarly. Anyway, on top of that, GoH can also hit 5 targets so it is, in my opinion, a very underrated power.
As shown by combat logs, GoF has consistently beat KF, you can consider it a KF-like daily. In buff groups, GoH + KF is a decent nuke when all dps boosts are up (even when using GoH first, it just hits harder than KF) so that's worth considering for when staing HB is better for team perfomance (like when several party members can hdps and one or 2 of them dps better than the SW) than switching to SB on bosses)
I know that on live GoH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brood of Hadar (like FoP as well)
I wonder which one is better between FoP and GoH for single target dps (GoH far more versatile for sure) though. Do you think you could ACT that? That would be awesome.
Thank you too for testing CD! As for GoH, I'm on console so can't know for certain (I'm an ACT-less mortal ;_;) but it basically is similiar to KF in terms of damage, slightly better, at least from what I've seen, for example, GoH median hit > KF median hit by a lot and max damage potential GoH > KF as well. If using a dread, I believe GoH would still have a noticeably better median hit and for max damage they would be fairly similar, perhaps KF could be a little bit better. Anyway, on top of that, GoH can also hit 5 targets so it is, in my opinion, a very underrated power.
As shown by combat logs, GoF has consistently beat KF, you can consider it a KF-like daily. In buff groups, GoH + KF is a decent nuke when all dps boosts are up (even when using GoH first, it just hits harder than KF) so that's worth considering for when staing HB is better for team perfomance (like when several party members can hdps and one or 2 of them dps better than the SW) than switching to SB on bosses.
I know that on live GoH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brood of Hadar (like FoP as well)
I wonder which one is better between FoP and GoH for single target dps (GoH far more versatile for sure) though. Do you think you could ACT that? That would be awesome.
By the way, GoH got reported not to proc weapon enchantments, assuming devs get to fix it, it would deal some decent extra damage with a vorpal.
Killing flames are good encounter is one of great encounters. However it require good timing, when and who hit with this power. KF is single target power, and with Murderous Flames you make him AoE. However, I don't bother to use it as AoE at all. Better use true AoE powers. Because in order to hit more than half it's capability, you need hit target who have lowest HP remained. And in fights usually happens they die before you land this power. And even if you do land in right moment, your dealt dmg is just close to true AoE powers> Bova, PoP, Arm Of hadar or even harrowstorm.. <<
So to compare KF with gate of hell is not good. Because both powers initially do different things. Gate of hell is AoE power, and hit in same power all enemies, while KF hit biggest dmg to single target, and 30% of its hit dmg split to other targets.
Next, I notice that you comparing Flames of Phlegethos vs Gate of hell. The answer is simple. For Single target Flames of Phlegethos is best option. While for AoE Gate of hell is way better one.
In order to deal best dmg with Flames of Phlegethos, you need> FoE class feature.. hit once or 3 times to stack it's debuff for single target. Then Curse> Flames of Phlegethos and once you cast it, use Dreadtheft< Since FoP is DoT like power, thats mean it's deal dmg for certain time period, and DT debuff is to increase dealt dmg from all sources. . So naturally, you should hit more dmg than normally. And I doing it within boss fight, regarless as Templock or furylock.
As for AoE to use FoE is nonsense. Small areal effect radius, and dmg itself is HAMSTER.
As Brood of hadar,, It's good against tough monsters to apply CC element. And also it desing where that in past it would proc Creeping death.
Anyways.. Thats my opinion...
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
By the way, GoH got reported not to proc weapon enchantments, assuming devs get to fix it, it would deal some decent extra damage with a vorpal.
Vorpal increase damage Gates of Hell and Immolation Spirits.
Oh I misunderstood what Rick reported about those daylies not proccing weapon enchantments then, good to know crit severity is working for good ol' Gates.
@bloodyspamer it would be good to ACT KF/FoP vs GoH, numbers in the screen and combat logs show GoH > KF or at least quite similar (I use trans vorpal)
By the way, GoH got reported not to proc weapon enchantments, assuming devs get to fix it, it would deal some decent extra damage with a vorpal.
Vorpal increase damage Gates of Hell and Immolation Spirits.
Oh I misunderstood what Rick reported about those daylies not proccing weapon enchantments then, good to know crit severity is working for good ol' Gates.
Indeed vorpal works (and most likely dread too) but I think these 2 dailies (GOH and IS) do not proc other weapons enchants like add % weapon damage enchants. I tested GOH on preview with Fire and terror: these weapons are not mentioned in ACT (they are mentioned when I use other powers), effectiveness is not increased, and the damage is the same as if no weapon enchant is equiped.
BUT I have some trouble to get consistent numbers (even if i use the test blade) so sometimes, I find a very slight damage increase (unfortunately, i am not fully naked for this test), so if an expert could confirm, it would be great. Btw, GOH is quite annoying to test because the manual curse tends to disappear before the power activates.
Thanks for the Gates of hell advice. It was so bad time ago that I didn't even test it ever again.
Just posted the different behavior of Pillar of power compared to Icy terrain and smoke bomb related to weapon enchants, which should be similar.
Thanks to you to for your testing, it is appreciated Try Gates with Gateekeeper's empowerment and a vorpal vs KF and you'll see it is such an underrated power
By the way, GoH got reported not to proc weapon enchantments, assuming devs get to fix it, it would deal some decent extra damage with a vorpal.
Vorpal increase damage Gates of Hell and Immolation Spirits.
Oh I misunderstood what Rick reported about those daylies not proccing weapon enchantments then, good to know crit severity is working for good ol' Gates.
Sue me, I'm lazy: whenever I usually say "(x) does not proc enchants", I usually mean "proc enchants such as BIlethorn or Terror do not proc on (x) powers".
And no offense to you SW mains, but I dreaded testing your guys' class, due to how much of a mess it was.
All the more reason for SW to get a huge overhaul, so people can actually test the class...
@bloodyspamer it would be good to ACT KF/FoP vs GoH, numbers in the screen and combat logs show GoH > KF or at least quite similar (I use trans vorpal)
That would be good thing.. However, I haven't been online for a while. And actually have very low interest whats going on here. I wrote just to share my opinion..
KF is good, but it's dealt dmg is between good and terrible(AoE). As for gate of hell, well I would not be surprised if it's not work as intended. It's hardly believe that something with in SW work as intended. Whole class broken, not just certain powers.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
@rjc9000@bloodyspamer ya SW desperately needs a rework o.O Yo rick, when I first read your report I thought you meant GoH wasn't getting the crit sev bonus from vorpal xD
Looks like the owlbear nerf has still made it into the most recent Swords of Chult version on preview, so we are probably stuck with this particular nerf. Time to hope that after the TR re-work SWs are up next ....
Looks like the owlbear nerf has still made it into the most recent Swords of Chult version on preview, so we are probably stuck with this particular nerf. Time to hope that after the TR re-work SWs are up next ....
Offtopick/sacarsm on H0pe is fools mother and we are her children's.
Joke off.
Well lets be honest. To solve warlocks problems we need at least 2 months time frame. And I don't think staff have such empty time frame within their schedule.
To fix warlock need change a lot of things. 1) reevaluate ability scores.
Lets be hones, Cw, GWF, Hr and heck even DC primary abilities gives bonus dmg.. Only TR and SW primary abilities don't work in such way/.. And as you can see, both TR and SW have dmg problems within pve..
2) rework warlocks powers concept.
Lets see, warlocks Fury(dps) trees backbone is Creeping Death, which is DoT. Also Hellbringer Fury main tool is Hellish rebuke which is DoT too.
And we all know, that DoT means you need time frame to deal full it's dmg. Neverwinter is in favor for burst powers, so Warlock lags behind naturally. Because fights don't last long, and only in fight with boss SW can try compete with others dps classes.
Next problem is debuffs..
There are 2 ways how character empower/boost up own dmg output.(in any mmorpg game) 1) through selfbuffs - means you either apply before fight, or build up stacks while engage in fight..
Benefits is that you have same dmg increase regardless if you engage new or old target, you don't have to build up everything from start.
2) debuffs Debuffs is headpain. Sure it can be big boost within fight, and good in big monsters/boss fights or when you engage small group of targets/enemies.
Flaw/weakness - in order to deal decent dmg you have too apply/build debuffs for each new target you engage in fight.
This is same thing in all mmorpg games,.
And warlock main source of dmg are > DoT and Debuffs. So warlocks desing itself hold him in current state. By buffing/boosting encounter/daily powers and at wills so it could compete with other high dps classes, we actually making him overpowered in single target/boss fight. And I can bet, no one want to happen like that.
To fix that need lot of time, and rework it from A to Z. Small/cosmetic rework will not help to keep warlock viable, the gap between SW and others already is too wide. And before any changes start, thats mean month before code editing, staff need to start conversation with warlock players. Rather drop new thing and latter wonder will it work or not.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Not sure how long the des would need to properly rework SW but your post is spot on, throw in horribly underpowered or flat out useless/worthless passive powers + long cooldowns and casting times and there you have it, current state of SW.
Comments
As per https://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/comment/12993590/#Comment_12993590 the Tyrannical bug has been fixed and it has also received a minor buff so it doesn't work worse than Tab curse for single target situations.
Thanks for your help!
@nisckis
Thank you too for testing CD!
As for GoH, I'm on console so can't know for certain (I'm an ACT-less mortal ;_;) but it basically is similiar to KF in terms of damage, slightly better, at least from what I've seen, for example, GoH median hit > KF median hit by a lot and max damage potential GoH > KF as well. Edit: If using dread, GoH and KF should perfom more similarly. Anyway, on top of that, GoH can also hit 5 targets so it is, in my opinion, a very underrated power.
As shown by combat logs, GoF has consistently beat KF, you can consider it a KF-like daily. In buff groups, GoH + KF is a decent nuke when all dps boosts are up (even when using GoH first, it just hits harder than KF) so that's worth considering for when staing HB is better for team perfomance (like when several party members can hdps and one or 2 of them dps better than the SW) than switching to SB on bosses)
I know that on live GoH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brood of Hadar (like FoP as well)
I wonder which one is better between FoP and GoH for single target dps (GoH far more versatile for sure) though. Do you think you could ACT that? That would be awesome.
KF is single target power, and with Murderous Flames you make him AoE. However, I don't bother to use it as AoE at all. Better use true AoE powers. Because in order to hit more than half it's capability, you need hit target who have lowest HP remained. And in fights usually happens they die before you land this power. And even if you do land in right moment, your dealt dmg is just close to true AoE powers> Bova, PoP, Arm Of hadar or even harrowstorm.. <<
So to compare KF with gate of hell is not good. Because both powers initially do different things.
Gate of hell is AoE power, and hit in same power all enemies, while KF hit biggest dmg to single target, and 30% of its hit dmg split to other targets.
Next, I notice that you comparing Flames of Phlegethos vs Gate of hell.
The answer is simple. For Single target Flames of Phlegethos is best option. While for AoE Gate of hell is way better one.
In order to deal best dmg with Flames of Phlegethos, you need> FoE class feature.. hit once or 3 times to stack it's debuff for single target. Then Curse> Flames of Phlegethos and once you cast it, use Dreadtheft<
Since FoP is DoT like power, thats mean it's deal dmg for certain time period, and DT debuff is to increase dealt dmg from all sources. .
So naturally, you should hit more dmg than normally.
As for AoE to use FoE is nonsense. Small areal effect radius, and dmg itself is HAMSTER.
As Brood of hadar,, It's good against tough monsters to apply CC element. And also it desing where that in past it would proc Creeping death.
Anyways.. Thats my opinion...
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Just posted the different behavior of Pillar of power compared to Icy terrain and smoke bomb related to weapon enchants, which should be similar.
I tested GOH on preview with Fire and terror: these weapons are not mentioned in ACT (they are mentioned when I use other powers), effectiveness is not increased, and the damage is the same as if no weapon enchant is equiped.
BUT I have some trouble to get consistent numbers (even if i use the test blade) so sometimes, I find a very slight damage increase (unfortunately, i am not fully naked for this test), so if an expert could confirm, it would be great.
Btw, GOH is quite annoying to test because the manual curse tends to disappear before the power activates.
Try Gates with Gateekeeper's empowerment and a vorpal vs KF and you'll see it is such an underrated power
@werdandi#8366
Oh that sucks, man SW is so broken
As for the curse issue, casting hellish rebuke a bit helps to keep it so you can us GoH and get its damage bonus
And no offense to you SW mains, but I dreaded testing your guys' class, due to how much of a mess it was.
All the more reason for SW to get a huge overhaul, so people can actually test the class...
I wrote just to share my opinion..
KF is good, but it's dealt dmg is between good and terrible(AoE). As for gate of hell, well I would not be surprised if it's not work as intended. It's hardly believe that something with in SW work as intended. Whole class broken, not just certain powers.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Yo rick, when I first read your report I thought you meant GoH wasn't getting the crit sev bonus from vorpal xD
Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
H0pe is fools mother and we are her children's.
Joke off.
Well lets be honest. To solve warlocks problems we need at least 2 months time frame. And I don't think staff have such
empty time frame within their schedule.
To fix warlock need change a lot of things.
1) reevaluate ability scores.
Lets be hones, Cw, GWF, Hr and heck even DC primary abilities gives bonus dmg.. Only TR and SW primary abilities don't work in such way/.. And as you can see, both TR and SW have dmg problems within pve..
2) rework warlocks powers concept.
Lets see, warlocks Fury(dps) trees backbone is Creeping Death, which is DoT. Also Hellbringer Fury main tool is Hellish rebuke which is DoT too.
And we all know, that DoT means you need time frame to deal full it's dmg. Neverwinter is in favor for burst powers, so Warlock lags behind naturally. Because fights don't last long, and only in fight with boss SW can try compete with others dps classes.
Next problem is debuffs..
There are 2 ways how character empower/boost up own dmg output.(in any mmorpg game)
1) through selfbuffs - means you either apply before fight, or build up stacks while engage in fight..
Benefits is that you have same dmg increase regardless if you engage new or old target, you don't have to build up everything from start.
2) debuffs
Debuffs is headpain. Sure it can be big boost within fight, and good in big monsters/boss fights or when you engage small group of targets/enemies.
Flaw/weakness - in order to deal decent dmg you have too apply/build debuffs for each new target you engage in fight.
This is same thing in all mmorpg games,.
And warlock main source of dmg are > DoT and Debuffs.
To fix that need lot of time, and rework it from A to Z. Small/cosmetic rework will not help to keep warlock viable, the gap between SW and others already is too wide.
And before any changes start, thats mean month before code editing, staff need to start conversation with warlock players. Rather drop new thing and latter wonder will it work or not.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Not sure how long the des would need to properly rework SW but your post is spot on, throw in horribly underpowered or flat out useless/worthless passive powers + long cooldowns and casting times and there you have it, current state of SW.