Two leveling dungeons and two skirmishes a day easily gets 20K RAD. That's one armor piece a day. After a week, you should have the rings also. Then another two or three days for the chult main- and off-hand. Then get carried in eToS twice a day for a full 36K RAD a day. It is such a joke now. Better hurry. Offer ends 10/24!
> @dafrca#4810 said: > Just in case you are not aware of it, you can buy Chult gear from AH dirt cheap. You don't need to go into Chulk to get the gear. The price is so low that makes new player not to farm gear anywhere else. Almost every piece is lower than 20K AD. > > But when you have a new player like me who will not be able to get 20k AD together let alone enough to buy all the gear, then Dirt Cheep is not what I would call it. :-)
You can earn that off of salvage in a day or two...come on dude! Or join a guild and buy gear with guild marks, profession mats to sell on AH...very easy to get/buy gear. Much easier than when I was a wee little newbie.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,229Arc User
Just in case you are not aware of it, you can buy Chult gear from AH dirt cheap. You don't need to go into Chulk to get the gear. The price is so low that makes new player not to farm gear anywhere else. Almost every piece is lower than 20K AD.
But when you have a new player like me who will not be able to get 20k AD together let alone enough to buy all the gear, then Dirt Cheep is not what I would call it. :-)
Do you expect a level 70 to get the full set of gear on the day 1 they become level 70? You can go to level dungeon RQ for a few days to earn enough AD to buy the gear. Doing RQ level dungeon will earn the EXACT SAME amount of AD you will do in RQ Epic dungeon. Since you don't have gear to do epic dungeon, you can only do level dungeon anyway at that stage.
Do you know how long we did to grind either SKT gear or RD gear? For me, with the proper level 70 equipment to do SKT/RD, it took a month each. And, I did not get any gear from SKT and one set of weapon from RD.
In a month, you will have enough AD to get properly 3 set of the equipment (and you only need 1 set).
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
In a month, you will have enough AD to get properly 3 set of the equipment (and you only need 1 set).
Guess it makes a lot of diference if you can play for hours a day or not. :-(
Been playing fo ra month and don't have the AD for three sets of gear, heck I just bought my first mount off the AH.
But I will fold and accept that you can do so and maybe I will too at some point.
If you are not even level 70, your AD earning is limited because you don't earn as much from level dungeon in lower level. Yes, play time matters and that matters for with or without this RQ system. For the record, I am not saying this RQ is good.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
> @dafrca#4810 said: > Who cares about rough AD and RP for rewards? > > Those who are new to the game and are not swimming in tons of AD because they run the low level dungeons every day. > > Sad that it seems even though they say it is not, this Random Dungeon thing is overly focused on the very top layer of players and seems to ignore how it is going to impact most of the rest of the players.
I said rough AD. It is not hard to get the daily limit we can refine no matter what the level. That bottleneck hurts low and high levels. Oh so I can run dungeons, PvP, skirmish, dread ring, icewind, and salvage mountains of rough AD for what? To let it sit? They could say run one dungeon get 40k rough AD. That just means I don't have to do those things and I save an hour out of my day. Still going to run dungeons for seals and for my guildies that need help.
> @niadan said: > > @dafrca#4810 said: > > Just in case you are not aware of it, you can buy Chult gear from AH dirt cheap. You don't need to go into Chulk to get the gear. The price is so low that makes new player not to farm gear anywhere else. Almost every piece is lower than 20K AD. > > > > But when you have a new player like me who will not be able to get 20k AD together let alone enough to buy all the gear, then Dirt Cheep is not what I would call it. :-) > > You can earn that off of salvage in a day or two...come on dude! Or join a guild and buy gear with guild marks, profession mats to sell on AH...very easy to get/buy gear. Much easier than when I was a wee little newbie.
I think you forget how long it takes to get AD when you're new. Add on top of that time the fact that new players won't be getting any bonus AD. 20k becomes a ton for them. And once they finally get the Chult pieces they'll have to somehow get enchantments and artifacts that are high enough to push then over 11k, not to mention a companion with equipment that they'll have to buy because they can't get into IG and more enchantments for that gear.
11k is easy enough when you already have a 13k character that can outfit your new one, yes. When you are new and just starting out it's not easy at all and this stupid system is going to make it even worse.
One difficult component of digesting changes like these is that it's very hard to imagine how they will impact your play patterns until they actually ship on the live server.
I’d very much like you to reflect on that while you are telling us how it’s going to be different to how we are telling you it is going to be.
We have made countless changes with the release of Module 12 and even more with the release of Module 12B that make it much, much easier to get into the 11k range. With the release of Chult, obtaining high item level equipment is easier than ever, and with Module 12B, refining your enchantments and artifacts will be easier than ever. Yes, there are some new high end ranks introduced, but the adjustments to the curves as well as the tremendous quality of life improvements should result in many players hitting higher level enchantments much more easily.
Their AD gain also hasn't been negatively impacted. The only thing that may change is that a player who meets the Random Epic Dungeon requirement and hasn't gotten the bonus that day may want to not queue with a player who can't access that queue for one random epic dungeon. For the average player who doesn't have a lot of friends to run dungeons with, the experience should improve as a whole as more players are available and more tanks and healers are encouraged to queue.
For those that do have friends, we aren't tremendously worried, we think that players will still be willing to help their friends run through dungeons to help them gear up to the point that they can run the Random Epic Dungeon as well. Particularly because this it is no longer an ordeal to get to that point. We will keep an eye on this though, so please give us feedback so to how much these changes have altered your behavior once they go live.
Ok let’s be clear we are talking about 7k-11k toons.
These are the toons that are still playing the campaigns.
Account wide unlock doesn’t matter at all if your only qualifying toon has yet to unlock it.
Chult doesn’t matter if you cannot get to Port.
You seem to be making decisions about how everything will be awesome because BiS 16k toons can do speed runs of FBI and mSP, while the rest of us are stuck with the results of your inability to listen to 38 pages of feedback because it’s “too hard” or something to move the dividing point from ToNG to FBI, and have FBI/mSP drop stuff that actually matters to those able to enter ToNG.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
One difficult component of digesting changes like these is that it's very hard to imagine how they will impact your play patterns until they actually ship on the live server.
I know we sound like a broken record. But it is for the good of all of us, please do listen. We are not just singing, like birds on the branch, and trying to mess with your work. Is it not alright to assume, we have been around long enough to see a lot of changes going on? And the ways of the implementation. The amazing changes and the mistakes that costs us our whole guilds. It seems to me like there is an opinion that we have nothing to lose. And that is so not true. We tried to point out what might happen then, just like we are trying to point it out now. It is not something we take lightly. And we know Devs do not too. So please, listen to what people are saying.
We have made countless changes with the release of Module 12 and even more with the release of Module 12B that make it much, much easier to get into the 11k range. With the release of Chult, obtaining high item level equipment is easier than ever, and with Module 12B, refining your enchantments and artifacts will be easier than ever. Yes, there are some new high end ranks introduced, but the adjustments to the curves as well as the tremendous quality of life improvements should result in many players hitting higher level enchantments much more easily.
Their AD gain also hasn't been negatively impacted. The only thing that may change is that a player who meets the Random Epic Dungeon requirement and hasn't gotten the bonus that day may want to not queue with a player who can't access that queue for one random epic dungeon. For the average player who doesn't have a lot of friends to run dungeons with, the experience should improve as a whole as more players are available and more tanks and healers are encouraged to queue.
For those that do have friends, we aren't tremendously worried, we think that players will still be willing to help their friends run through dungeons to help them gear up to the point that they can run the Random Epic Dungeon as well. Particularly because this it is no longer an ordeal to get to that point. We will keep an eye on this though, so please give us feedback so to how much these changes have altered your behavior once they go live.
And while it is easier to get to 11 000 Gear Score, that really means nothing . Expectations of how powerful the players are with 11 k and the reality of the dungeon , they will do , are two different things. If you stop listening to " i can do it with 5 k gear score " people, and start listening to " i am a random player " people, you ll see a big difference.
Also , you keep thinking of higher IL players like we are babysitters. I do not get payed to go everywhere with my guildies and " help " them level their gear score. I do that of my own free will. Spending my own free time , between two jobs,to run through zones i went 10 000 times before. To help a new person do his quests , so he can get to open his campg. and afterwards so he can get a higher gear score and enough power * to go with me to do a dungeon like FBI or MSP. So i can " help " him get his gear. Right. The meaning of my online life is to help , cos people will not be able to do it on their own. To drag my low level friends through runs they can not do. And to despair when we fail.
And you know what, just like any other human on this planet , sometimes i really do not feel like being a babysitter for people who will leave after __ amount of time, since they find the requirements for progress too much to handle. Just gear means really nothing. Gear with a weapon ench, and armor ench, and offense / defense enchantment , of a higher level. What utility ench you are using, what feats, encounters , at wills, what guild boon do you have. With mounts and insignias and companions of "______ " color . Is it an augment or is it not ? What runstones is your companion using, what gear... How many are legendary ? That actually means something.
We the players did not set the rules of the engagement. The requirements you put in front of us, did.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,229Arc User
I think you forget how long it takes to get AD when you're new. Add on top of that time the fact that new players won't be getting any bonus AD. 20k becomes a ton for them. And once they finally get the Chult pieces they'll have to somehow get enchantments and artifacts that are high enough to push then over 11k, not to mention a companion with equipment that they'll have to buy because they can't get into IG and more enchantments for that gear.
11k is easy enough when you already have a 13k character that can outfit your new one, yes. When you are new and just starting out it's not easy at all and this stupid system is going to make it even worse.
When a new player finally reaches level 70, he cannot expect he would have everything at that very moment. Being level 70 is the "beginning". However, with some basic level 70 no frill gear, they can still do RQ level dungeons which are for level 56 and below. Doing that can earn the same amount of AD as doing RQ Epic dungeon. Within a month, you will have enough to buy a full set of Chult equipment. No, you will not be BiS or anywhere close to it. However, you have a good gear to base on to progress. Before mod 12, you would not have anything close to a rank 1 Chult equipment. You would get some blue gear from (may be) VT and that is probably 5 levels lower than Chult equipment. Life is easier for new players these days comparing with the new players before mod 12. The keyword is "easier". That does not mean you don't need to work hard on it. It does not mean the life is not tough. It is just "easier" in comparison.
I don't understand why a level 70 cannot get bonus AD. They can do invocation since level 11 (?). If you mean the AD earning from running dungeon, as I said, do RQ level dungeons.
They don't need to worry about 11k unless they want to do RQ Epic dungeon. They can do some Epic dungeon without being 11k. i.e. Do RQ level dungeons to earn daily AD. Do Epic dungeon of their choice (VT, MC, etc) if they want to farm for salvage.
Before mod 12, you couldn't buy anything close to Chult equipment even if (say) your AD earning was double. Depends on which one, one piece (not one set) could cost you 200K.
Post edited by plasticbat on
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
I remember when Mod. 10 came out it was a way to reward the more higher end players with something to do Like FBI and so on and even this newest mod was done in that mind set . It was a goal to reach some day for the rest of us. Yet today you are wanting to place all of us in that same model acting like 11k is the target to run these things . Good luck with that.
I've been trying to stay out of this discussion since @asterdahl took the hard line of this is what it is until data after the fact shows you are all correct, because that made it clear to me that my initial suspicions were probably correct that one of the main unstated goals here is to keep people progressing through mod 10 instead of skipping it
That said, following this thread it seems folks like @plasticbat and @niadan are starting to respond to the fresh 70s wailing over the loss of their daily RAD due to RQs... and I'd like to throw in my two pennies on that
After playing this game for a couple years while actively recruiting, training, powerleveling and gearing up new players, as well as working out builds and writing tutorials for them, I can confidently say running easy dungeons for free money so you can gear up to 16k should NOT be your primary focus... that path is boring and ultimately fruitless
As others have said, finally getting to level 70 is just the end of of your tutorial... at that point, the game has shown you a lot of the mechanics you will have to master as you continue to build yourself up and given you time to learn how all your skills and powers work
At that stage, new players still have MUCH to learn
Many players copy feats off build guides they find on websites and forums verbatim and never really try to learn their class, which is really unfortunate, because all fun in this game is learning to be really, really good at playing your class... pugging through Cloak Tower and Master of the Hunt twice each day isn't teaching you anything, and the gear you can eventually buy with that AD isn't going to make you a better player nor will it make the game more fun
I was invited to the guild I am now an officer in when a GWF pugged eToS with me and a friend of mine when we were woefully undergeared and didn't know the dungeon at all... I think I died 25 times
After we were finally done, that guy PM'd us and said he liked how hard we were trying and invited us to his guild, and MAN did that make us feel good about ourselves! Our new guild mates were generally undergeared as well, but also tried really hard to work out all the mechanics of the T2 dungeons, and we ran all the T1s and T2s together, over and over... I was the first DC main they had gotten in the guild, at least the first that was as interested in dungeon delving as they were, so I had to work with them to help them modify how they geared and how they played to take advantage of power sharing
As has been said, new gear back then was NOT easy to get... you had to work hard and grind for it, and you appreciated each upgrade and the achievement made you want more... and all those battles you worked through made you a much better player for it
The first time someone I ran a pug with recognized me and commented to the group that I was a "Good DC" and said we would have an easy time at whatever dungeon we were about to enter, it made my day
Nobody will ever compliment you on your gear, and no one cares about how much AD you have stockpiled
Being asked to join groups because people know you are good is where the fun is
I'm sure being 16k and being able to slaughter your way through anything in the game is fun as well, but that's not my goal... It will happen eventually, because I still run dungeons with my friends every day, salvaging tons of gear to make AD and buying or upgrading the right things to sell on the AH... sometimes, rarely, I might even get an unbound drop that I can sell
TL;DR-You guys are not losing anything with the RQ change to how you get your RAD
My only disagreement with this now program is it will probably make you guys feel excluded from the epic dungeons since you can't get in until you've completed one of the most challenging and time-consuming campaigns you'll have seen at that time, not that you won't be able to get in at all (also I believe the way this program is structured is probably a guaranteed fail, and I think that will be just another easily avoidable mistake, even if fixed later, that players will hold against Cryptic forever, which will be unfortunate)
In fact, I really hope all you new 70s spend as much time in epic dungeons as you can, getting really, really good at playing your class
The AD will come later, when people begin to recognize your skills and invite you to run dungeons with them because they know how good you are... You will be swimming in salvage and eventually have more than enough gear to buy stuff you want
While I am newish.. I started playing in June. This random q doesn't affect me personally as I'm working on 14k atm. However being newish I know how this will affect new players and forcing them to run SKT is a bad idea.
SKT is long, it's boring and it doesn't tie into to anything else. It honestly may as well not even be there. They're trying to tie it in now with the merchant in River District and the seals vendor, but it's too late. Forcing people to run that campaign is stupid and it's going to cost players. The rewards in it's dungeons are basically tied only to it's own campaign, which was a bad design decision.
Now keeping new players out of Malabog, Valindra, ETOS, etc until they've completed SKT if one of the dumbest ideas ever to go this far in a design. Sharandar quest for Malabog is gotten at level 68 and they can't actually do it until they've finished SKT? Seriously? That's absolutely moronic.
While I am newish.. I started playing in June. This random q doesn't affect me personally as I'm working on 14k atm. However being newish I know how this will affect new players and forcing them to run SKT is a bad idea.
SKT is long, it's boring and it doesn't tie into to anything else. It honestly may as well not even be there. They're trying to tie it in now with the merchant in River District and the seals vendor, but it's too late. Forcing people to run that campaign is stupid and it's going to cost players. The rewards in it's dungeons are basically tied only to it's own campaign, which was a bad design decision.
Now keeping new players out of Malabog, Valindra, ETOS, etc until they've completed SKT if one of the dumbest ideas ever to go this far in a design. Sharandar quest for Malabog is gotten at level 68 and they can't actually do it until they've finished SKT? Seriously? That's absolutely moronic.
It is not keeping players out of MC, VT, ETOS. They can still go there without doing SKT, etc. They just cannot go there as RQ (which they have no choice which dungeon it may choose).
I personally don't want to do RQ (both Epic and level) at all. I just can't understand people keep talking about as if you have to do RQ Epic dungeon. You can just do Epic dungeon of your choice.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Now keeping new players out of Malabog, Valindra, ETOS, etc until they've completed SKT if one of the dumbest ideas ever to go this far in a design. Sharandar quest for Malabog is gotten at level 68 and they can't actually do it until they've finished SKT? Seriously? That's absolutely moronic.
You can queue for any of them, just not random queue for anything.
While I am newish.. I started playing in June. This random q doesn't affect me personally as I'm working on 14k atm. However being newish I know how this will affect new players and forcing them to run SKT is a bad idea.
SKT is long, it's boring and it doesn't tie into to anything else. It honestly may as well not even be there. They're trying to tie it in now with the merchant in River District and the seals vendor, but it's too late. Forcing people to run that campaign is stupid and it's going to cost players. The rewards in it's dungeons are basically tied only to it's own campaign, which was a bad design decision.
Now keeping new players out of Malabog, Valindra, ETOS, etc until they've completed SKT if one of the dumbest ideas ever to go this far in a design. Sharandar quest for Malabog is gotten at level 68 and they can't actually do it until they've finished SKT? Seriously? That's absolutely moronic.
It is not keeping players out of MC, VT, ETOS. They can still go there without doing SKT, etc. They just cannot go there as RQ (which they have no choice which dungeon it may choose).
I personally don't want to do RQ (both Epic and level) at all. I just can't understand people keep talking about as if you have to do RQ Epic dungeon. You can just do Epic dungeon of your choice.
they are removing the rad from private ques, I don't mind the idea of rq but being forced to do rq is a different story.
I know. New players have problem to do RQ Epic dungeon. That is why I keep on saying if you want AD (the same amount of AD), do RQ level dungeon. Spend 10 minutes (yes, it is a boring 10 minutes) to get the daily AD. Then, do whatever else you want. The bottom line is: if you want to spend that 10 minutes. The whole argument is basically about if one wants to waste that 10 minutes to earn AD.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
> @plasticbat said: > While I am newish.. I started playing in June. This random q doesn't affect me personally as I'm working on 14k atm. However being newish I know how this will affect new players and forcing them to run SKT is a bad idea. > > > > SKT is long, it's boring and it doesn't tie into to anything else. It honestly may as well not even be there. They're trying to tie it in now with the merchant in River District and the seals vendor, but it's too late. Forcing people to run that campaign is stupid and it's going to cost players. The rewards in it's dungeons are basically tied only to it's own campaign, which was a bad design decision. > > > > Now keeping new players out of Malabog, Valindra, ETOS, etc until they've completed SKT if one of the dumbest ideas ever to go this far in a design. Sharandar quest for Malabog is gotten at level 68 and they can't actually do it until they've finished SKT? Seriously? That's absolutely moronic. > > It is not keeping players out of MC, VT, ETOS. They can still go there without doing SKT, etc. They just cannot go there as RQ (which they have no choice which dungeon it may choose). > > I personally don't want to do RQ (both Epic and level) at all. I just can't understand people keep talking about as if you have to do RQ Epic dungeon. You can just do Epic dungeon of your choice.
You don't get the bonus AD if not in a Random Q. Run a dungeon 3 times in one day. The third one week be without bonus AD. That's what it will be like for new players all the time until they are done with SKT.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,229Arc User
> While I am newish.. I started playing in June. This random q doesn't affect me personally as I'm working on 14k atm. However being newish I know how this will affect new players and forcing them to run SKT is a bad idea.
>
>
>
> SKT is long, it's boring and it doesn't tie into to anything else. It honestly may as well not even be there. They're trying to tie it in now with the merchant in River District and the seals vendor, but it's too late. Forcing people to run that campaign is stupid and it's going to cost players. The rewards in it's dungeons are basically tied only to it's own campaign, which was a bad design decision.
>
>
>
> Now keeping new players out of Malabog, Valindra, ETOS, etc until they've completed SKT if one of the dumbest ideas ever to go this far in a design. Sharandar quest for Malabog is gotten at level 68 and they can't actually do it until they've finished SKT? Seriously? That's absolutely moronic.
>
> It is not keeping players out of MC, VT, ETOS. They can still go there without doing SKT, etc. They just cannot go there as RQ (which they have no choice which dungeon it may choose).
>
> I personally don't want to do RQ (both Epic and level) at all. I just can't understand people keep talking about as if you have to do RQ Epic dungeon. You can just do Epic dungeon of your choice.
You don't get the bonus AD if not in a Random Q. Run a dungeon 3 times in one day. The third one week be without bonus AD. That's what it will be like for new players all the time until they are done with SKT.
How many times I need to repeat this. You can do RQ level dungeons. You get same amount bonus AD. It is a level 56 and under dungeon. You don't need SKT or anything. A fresh level 70 can do it. The bottom line is: Do you want to spend that 10 minutes to run a RQ level dungeon? You only need to do ONE times. Do you know what the new system do? Right now, you run it 2 times. In mod 12b, you only need to run one time.
Please read the update in page 13:
Live AD Earn vs New Random Queue AD Earn (Non-Epic) On live currently, it is possible to earn a total of 15,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 2 skirmishes and 2 dungeons. With the above adjustments, it will be possible to earn 14,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 1 random skirmish and 1 dungeon. (Compared with the values in the original post, I am including the repeatable AD reward bonuses in these figures, as I believe leaving them off may have caused some confusion, as they are included in the total reward even on your first daily run.) I have also excluded PvP values here, as many of you have pointed out you have no interest in running PvP. Those values will remain as is in the original post. They were included as they represent the total bonus daily AD earn.
Absolutely, all of our players mater to us. In fact, your self-described casual play style marks you as someone who stands to benefit the most from the changes. It sounds like you're saying you have a pretty active guild and circle of friends you play with, so you were pretty happy with using private queues casually, and that will still be possible—you can continue doing that in exactly the same way you do now, you'll just have to run 1 random leveling dungeon (which you can do with 2 of your friends) to get a big chunk of AD that you used to be able to get from doing 2 private queued epic dungeons before.
Post edited by plasticbat on
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
> While I am newish.. I started playing in June. This random q doesn't affect me personally as I'm working on 14k atm. However being newish I know how this will affect new players and forcing them to run SKT is a bad idea.
>
>
>
> SKT is long, it's boring and it doesn't tie into to anything else. It honestly may as well not even be there. They're trying to tie it in now with the merchant in River District and the seals vendor, but it's too late. Forcing people to run that campaign is stupid and it's going to cost players. The rewards in it's dungeons are basically tied only to it's own campaign, which was a bad design decision.
>
>
>
> Now keeping new players out of Malabog, Valindra, ETOS, etc until they've completed SKT if one of the dumbest ideas ever to go this far in a design. Sharandar quest for Malabog is gotten at level 68 and they can't actually do it until they've finished SKT? Seriously? That's absolutely moronic.
>
> It is not keeping players out of MC, VT, ETOS. They can still go there without doing SKT, etc. They just cannot go there as RQ (which they have no choice which dungeon it may choose).
>
> I personally don't want to do RQ (both Epic and level) at all. I just can't understand people keep talking about as if you have to do RQ Epic dungeon. You can just do Epic dungeon of your choice.
You don't get the bonus AD if not in a Random Q. Run a dungeon 3 times in one day. The third one week be without bonus AD. That's what it will be like for new players all the time until they are done with SKT.
How many times I need to repeat this. You can do RQ level dungeons. You get same amount bonus AD. It is a level 56 and under dungeon. You don't need SKT or anything. A fresh level 70 can do it. The bottom line is: Do you want to spend that 10 minutes to run a RQ level dungeon? You only need to do ONE times. Do you know what the new system do? Right now, you run it 2 times. In mod 12b, you only need to run one time.
Please read the update in page 13:
Live AD Earn vs New Random Queue AD Earn (Non-Epic) On live currently, it is possible to earn a total of 15,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 2 skirmishes and 2 dungeons. With the above adjustments, it will be possible to earn 14,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 1 random skirmish and 1 dungeon. (Compared with the values in the original post, I am including the repeatable AD reward bonuses in these figures, as I believe leaving them off may have caused some confusion, as they are included in the total reward even on your first daily run.) I have also excluded PvP values here, as many of you have pointed out you have no interest in running PvP. Those values will remain as is in the original post. They were included as they represent the total bonus daily AD earn.
Forcing players to run content that is not of their choosing to earn the AD they need is just a really bad idea. It doesn't matter if the dungeons are leveling or epic, players of all levels get enjoyment from playing the content of their choice. @asterdahl has repeatedly emphasised the 'tremendous quality of life improvements' being introduced in Mod12B, forcing players to run content not of their choosing makes a nonsense of any suggestion of introducing quality of life improvements. Using a methodology that effectively forces players to do things they do not want to do or that they know they will not enjoy doing is the exact opposite of a quality of life improvement.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,229Arc User
Forcing players to run content that is not of their choosing to earn the AD they need is just a really bad idea. It doesn't matter if the dungeons are leveling or epic, players of all levels get enjoyment from playing the content of their choice. @asterdahl has repeatedly emphasised the 'tremendous quality of life improvements' being introduced in Mod12B, forcing players to run content not of their choosing makes a nonsense of any suggestion of introducing quality of life improvements. Using a methodology that effectively forces players to do things they do not want to do is the exact opposite of a quality of life improvement.
I agree with you. That is why I keep on saying I am not going to do RQ.
However, for the new players who do not have any good gear and what they capable of doing is to earn AD from RQ level dungeon. I don't see that is a problem for new players to do RQ level dungeon. They can't jump to Epic dungeon without gear to begin with.
I recommended Chult gears which are inexpensive in AH. Fresh level 70 players needs AD to buy Chult gears. Doing RQ Level dungeon is not the end of the world for them.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Everything that exists now just needs fixed or turned on. We don't need new queue systems or more gear. Majority of people are not quitting due to lack of new content. They are leaving because a lack of quality content.
Every aspect if this game would be great if it worked. Weapon enchants proccing properly, boons doing as they say, companions and mount bonuses working, making cc viable with use on bosses, fixing lag issues in PvP and PVE, better rewards in current PvP and PVE content, activate old dungeons and transmutes and finally update the content and rewards of festivals and events including PvP gauntlgrym and siege.
If this does not truly benefit new and old players or low level and high level characters shelve it. Then focus on fixing what is and has been broken for some time.
Forcing players to run content that is not of their choosing to earn the AD they need is just a really bad idea. It doesn't matter if the dungeons are leveling or epic, players of all levels get enjoyment from playing the content of their choice. @asterdahl has repeatedly emphasised the 'tremendous quality of life improvements' being introduced in Mod12B, forcing players to run content not of their choosing makes a nonsense of any suggestion of introducing quality of life improvements. Using a methodology that effectively forces players to do things they do not want to do is the exact opposite of a quality of life improvement.
I agree with you. That is why I keep on saying I am not going to do RQ.
However, for the new players who do not have any good gear and what they capable of doing is to earn AD from RQ level dungeon. I don't see that is a problem for new players to do RQ level dungeon. They can't jump to Epic dungeon without gear to begin with.
I recommended Chult gears which are inexpensive in AH. Fresh level 70 players needs AD to buy Chult gears. Doing RQ Level dungeon is not the end of the world for them.
@plasticbat, I'm not trying to get at you I'm just trying to get @asterdahl to realise that this approach is so, so wrong. Like you, I will be giving random queues a complete miss because I know I will not enjoy them. New players trying to gear up will have no option but to drag themselves through content they have no choice over and which they will soon come to hate which is just about the worst way to bring them into the game that I can think of. If I were just starting out and ran into this drawback...I would stop playing this game and look elsewhere for entertainment.
Comments
> Just in case you are not aware of it, you can buy Chult gear from AH dirt cheap. You don't need to go into Chulk to get the gear. The price is so low that makes new player not to farm gear anywhere else. Almost every piece is lower than 20K AD.
>
> But when you have a new player like me who will not be able to get 20k AD together let alone enough to buy all the gear, then Dirt Cheep is not what I would call it. :-)
You can earn that off of salvage in a day or two...come on dude! Or join a guild and buy gear with guild marks, profession mats to sell on AH...very easy to get/buy gear. Much easier than when I was a wee little newbie.
You can go to level dungeon RQ for a few days to earn enough AD to buy the gear. Doing RQ level dungeon will earn the EXACT SAME amount of AD you will do in RQ Epic dungeon. Since you don't have gear to do epic dungeon, you can only do level dungeon anyway at that stage.
Do you know how long we did to grind either SKT gear or RD gear?
For me, with the proper level 70 equipment to do SKT/RD, it took a month each.
And, I did not get any gear from SKT and one set of weapon from RD.
In a month, you will have enough AD to get properly 3 set of the equipment (and you only need 1 set).
Been playing fo ra month and don't have the AD for three sets of gear, heck I just bought my first mount off the AH.
But I will fold and accept that you can do so and maybe I will too at some point.
> Who cares about rough AD and RP for rewards?
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> Those who are new to the game and are not swimming in tons of AD because they run the low level dungeons every day.
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> Sad that it seems even though they say it is not, this Random Dungeon thing is overly focused on the very top layer of players and seems to ignore how it is going to impact most of the rest of the players.
I said rough AD. It is not hard to get the daily limit we can refine no matter what the level. That bottleneck hurts low and high levels. Oh so I can run dungeons, PvP, skirmish, dread ring, icewind, and salvage mountains of rough AD for what? To let it sit? They could say run one dungeon get 40k rough AD. That just means I don't have to do those things and I save an hour out of my day. Still going to run dungeons for seals and for my guildies that need help.
> > @dafrca#4810 said:
> > Just in case you are not aware of it, you can buy Chult gear from AH dirt cheap. You don't need to go into Chulk to get the gear. The price is so low that makes new player not to farm gear anywhere else. Almost every piece is lower than 20K AD.
> >
> > But when you have a new player like me who will not be able to get 20k AD together let alone enough to buy all the gear, then Dirt Cheep is not what I would call it. :-)
>
> You can earn that off of salvage in a day or two...come on dude! Or join a guild and buy gear with guild marks, profession mats to sell on AH...very easy to get/buy gear. Much easier than when I was a wee little newbie.
I think you forget how long it takes to get AD when you're new. Add on top of that time the fact that new players won't be getting any bonus AD. 20k becomes a ton for them. And once they finally get the Chult pieces they'll have to somehow get enchantments and artifacts that are high enough to push then over 11k, not to mention a companion with equipment that they'll have to buy because they can't get into IG and more enchantments for that gear.
11k is easy enough when you already have a 13k character that can outfit your new one, yes. When you are new and just starting out it's not easy at all and this stupid system is going to make it even worse.
These are the toons that are still playing the campaigns.
Account wide unlock doesn’t matter at all if your only qualifying toon has yet to unlock it.
Chult doesn’t matter if you cannot get to Port.
You seem to be making decisions about how everything will be awesome because BiS 16k toons can do speed runs of FBI and mSP, while the rest of us are stuck with the results of your inability to listen to 38 pages of feedback because it’s “too hard” or something to move the dividing point from ToNG to FBI, and have FBI/mSP drop stuff that actually matters to those able to enter ToNG.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
We are not just singing, like birds on the branch, and trying to mess with your work.
Is it not alright to assume, we have been around long enough to see a lot of changes going on?
And the ways of the implementation.
The amazing changes and the mistakes that costs us our whole guilds.
It seems to me like there is an opinion that we have nothing to lose. And that is so not true.
We tried to point out what might happen then, just like we are trying to point it out now.
It is not something we take lightly. And we know Devs do not too. So please, listen to what people are saying.
And while it is easier to get to 11 000 Gear Score, that really means nothing .
Expectations of how powerful the players are with 11 k and the reality of the dungeon , they will do , are two different things.
If you stop listening to " i can do it with 5 k gear score " people, and start listening to " i am a random player " people, you ll see a big difference.
Also , you keep thinking of higher IL players like we are babysitters.
I do not get payed to go everywhere with my guildies and " help " them level their gear score.
I do that of my own free will.
Spending my own free time , between two jobs,to run through zones i went 10 000 times before.
To help a new person do his quests , so he can get to open his campg. and afterwards so he can get a higher gear score and enough power * to go with me to do a dungeon like FBI or MSP. So i can " help " him get his gear. Right.
The meaning of my online life is to help , cos people will not be able to do it on their own.
To drag my low level friends through runs they can not do. And to despair when we fail.
And you know what, just like any other human on this planet , sometimes i really do not feel like being a babysitter for people who will leave after __ amount of time, since they find the requirements for progress too much to handle.
Just gear means really nothing. Gear with a weapon ench, and armor ench, and offense / defense enchantment , of a higher level. What utility ench you are using, what feats, encounters , at wills, what guild boon do you have.
With mounts and insignias and companions of "______ " color . Is it an augment or is it not ? What runstones is your companion using, what gear... How many are legendary ? That actually means something.
We the players did not set the rules of the engagement. The requirements you put in front of us, did.
Being level 70 is the "beginning".
However, with some basic level 70 no frill gear, they can still do RQ level dungeons which are for level 56 and below.
Doing that can earn the same amount of AD as doing RQ Epic dungeon.
Within a month, you will have enough to buy a full set of Chult equipment.
No, you will not be BiS or anywhere close to it. However, you have a good gear to base on to progress.
Before mod 12, you would not have anything close to a rank 1 Chult equipment.
You would get some blue gear from (may be) VT and that is probably 5 levels lower than Chult equipment.
Life is easier for new players these days comparing with the new players before mod 12.
The keyword is "easier". That does not mean you don't need to work hard on it. It does not mean the life is not tough. It is just "easier" in comparison.
I don't understand why a level 70 cannot get bonus AD. They can do invocation since level 11 (?).
If you mean the AD earning from running dungeon, as I said, do RQ level dungeons.
They don't need to worry about 11k unless they want to do RQ Epic dungeon. They can do some Epic dungeon without being 11k. i.e. Do RQ level dungeons to earn daily AD. Do Epic dungeon of their choice (VT, MC, etc) if they want to farm for salvage.
Before mod 12, you couldn't buy anything close to Chult equipment even if (say) your AD earning was double. Depends on which one, one piece (not one set) could cost you 200K.
That said, following this thread it seems folks like @plasticbat and @niadan are starting to respond to the fresh 70s wailing over the loss of their daily RAD due to RQs... and I'd like to throw in my two pennies on that
After playing this game for a couple years while actively recruiting, training, powerleveling and gearing up new players, as well as working out builds and writing tutorials for them, I can confidently say running easy dungeons for free money so you can gear up to 16k should NOT be your primary focus... that path is boring and ultimately fruitless
As others have said, finally getting to level 70 is just the end of of your tutorial... at that point, the game has shown you a lot of the mechanics you will have to master as you continue to build yourself up and given you time to learn how all your skills and powers work
At that stage, new players still have MUCH to learn
Many players copy feats off build guides they find on websites and forums verbatim and never really try to learn their class, which is really unfortunate, because all fun in this game is learning to be really, really good at playing your class... pugging through Cloak Tower and Master of the Hunt twice each day isn't teaching you anything, and the gear you can eventually buy with that AD isn't going to make you a better player nor will it make the game more fun
I was invited to the guild I am now an officer in when a GWF pugged eToS with me and a friend of mine when we were woefully undergeared and didn't know the dungeon at all... I think I died 25 times
After we were finally done, that guy PM'd us and said he liked how hard we were trying and invited us to his guild, and MAN did that make us feel good about ourselves! Our new guild mates were generally undergeared as well, but also tried really hard to work out all the mechanics of the T2 dungeons, and we ran all the T1s and T2s together, over and over... I was the first DC main they had gotten in the guild, at least the first that was as interested in dungeon delving as they were, so I had to work with them to help them modify how they geared and how they played to take advantage of power sharing
As has been said, new gear back then was NOT easy to get... you had to work hard and grind for it, and you appreciated each upgrade and the achievement made you want more... and all those battles you worked through made you a much better player for it
The first time someone I ran a pug with recognized me and commented to the group that I was a "Good DC" and said we would have an easy time at whatever dungeon we were about to enter, it made my day
Nobody will ever compliment you on your gear, and no one cares about how much AD you have stockpiled
Being asked to join groups because people know you are good is where the fun is
I'm sure being 16k and being able to slaughter your way through anything in the game is fun as well, but that's not my goal... It will happen eventually, because I still run dungeons with my friends every day, salvaging tons of gear to make AD and buying or upgrading the right things to sell on the AH... sometimes, rarely, I might even get an unbound drop that I can sell
TL;DR-You guys are not losing anything with the RQ change to how you get your RAD
My only disagreement with this now program is it will probably make you guys feel excluded from the epic dungeons since you can't get in until you've completed one of the most challenging and time-consuming campaigns you'll have seen at that time, not that you won't be able to get in at all (also I believe the way this program is structured is probably a guaranteed fail, and I think that will be just another easily avoidable mistake, even if fixed later, that players will hold against Cryptic forever, which will be unfortunate)
In fact, I really hope all you new 70s spend as much time in epic dungeons as you can, getting really, really good at playing your class
The AD will come later, when people begin to recognize your skills and invite you to run dungeons with them because they know how good you are... You will be swimming in salvage and eventually have more than enough gear to buy stuff you want
SKT is long, it's boring and it doesn't tie into to anything else. It honestly may as well not even be there. They're trying to tie it in now with the merchant in River District and the seals vendor, but it's too late. Forcing people to run that campaign is stupid and it's going to cost players. The rewards in it's dungeons are basically tied only to it's own campaign, which was a bad design decision.
Now keeping new players out of Malabog, Valindra, ETOS, etc until they've completed SKT if one of the dumbest ideas ever to go this far in a design. Sharandar quest for Malabog is gotten at level 68 and they can't actually do it until they've finished SKT? Seriously? That's absolutely moronic.
I personally don't want to do RQ (both Epic and level) at all. I just can't understand people keep talking about as if you have to do RQ Epic dungeon. You can just do Epic dungeon of your choice.
Neverwinter Census 2017
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> While I am newish.. I started playing in June. This random q doesn't affect me personally as I'm working on 14k atm. However being newish I know how this will affect new players and forcing them to run SKT is a bad idea.
>
>
>
> SKT is long, it's boring and it doesn't tie into to anything else. It honestly may as well not even be there. They're trying to tie it in now with the merchant in River District and the seals vendor, but it's too late. Forcing people to run that campaign is stupid and it's going to cost players. The rewards in it's dungeons are basically tied only to it's own campaign, which was a bad design decision.
>
>
>
> Now keeping new players out of Malabog, Valindra, ETOS, etc until they've completed SKT if one of the dumbest ideas ever to go this far in a design. Sharandar quest for Malabog is gotten at level 68 and they can't actually do it until they've finished SKT? Seriously? That's absolutely moronic.
>
> It is not keeping players out of MC, VT, ETOS. They can still go there without doing SKT, etc. They just cannot go there as RQ (which they have no choice which dungeon it may choose).
>
> I personally don't want to do RQ (both Epic and level) at all. I just can't understand people keep talking about as if you have to do RQ Epic dungeon. You can just do Epic dungeon of your choice.
You don't get the bonus AD if not in a Random Q. Run a dungeon 3 times in one day. The third one week be without bonus AD. That's what it will be like for new players all the time until they are done with SKT.
Right now, you run it 2 times. In mod 12b, you only need to run one time.
Please read the update in page 13:
Live AD Earn vs New Random Queue AD Earn (Non-Epic)
On live currently, it is possible to earn a total of 15,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 2 skirmishes and 2 dungeons. With the above adjustments, it will be possible to earn 14,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 1 random skirmish and 1 dungeon. (Compared with the values in the original post, I am including the repeatable AD reward bonuses in these figures, as I believe leaving them off may have caused some confusion, as they are included in the total reward even on your first daily run.) I have also excluded PvP values here, as many of you have pointed out you have no interest in running PvP. Those values will remain as is in the original post. They were included as they represent the total bonus daily AD earn.
However, for the new players who do not have any good gear and what they capable of doing is to earn AD from RQ level dungeon. I don't see that is a problem for new players to do RQ level dungeon. They can't jump to Epic dungeon without gear to begin with.
I recommended Chult gears which are inexpensive in AH. Fresh level 70 players needs AD to buy Chult gears. Doing RQ Level dungeon is not the end of the world for them.
Every aspect if this game would be great if it worked. Weapon enchants proccing properly, boons doing as they say, companions and mount bonuses working, making cc viable with use on bosses, fixing lag issues in PvP and PVE, better rewards in current PvP and PVE content, activate old dungeons and transmutes and finally update the content and rewards of festivals and events including PvP gauntlgrym and siege.
If this does not truly benefit new and old players or low level and high level characters shelve it. Then focus on fixing what is and has been broken for some time.