> @plasticbat said: > > Give people more incentive to do RQ and don't take away the current AD earning in normal queue. Forcing people to do something they hate is always a bad idea. Giving people incentive to do something they hate (as an option) is the way to go.
For the convenience you need to pay. This is normal.
100 passages = 1000 Zen. Fair price
Sorry, what is the reason people here complains about the new RQ when they can always do normal (private) queue? Answer: RQ will give bonus AD and normal (private) queue will not. The only factor here is about AD earning.
Suggesting paying to join normal (private) queue so that you can get AD? Huh!?
Are you trying to make it worse than the RQ system so that the RQ system can look good?
Rather, the fight against the tyranny of support classes.
The evil players, who forced you to play a DD and take advantage of you and your fellow DDs by playing DDs, too. Causing a shortage of support characters. Everyone, but me should be forced to play a support character or at least a support build. Sarcasm off.
If you are new to a MMO, you can check the forum and go for a class in high demand. If you are a long time player, you can roll a DC and a tank alt, so did I. While I prefer, to run with my CW main, many times I do run with my GF or DC.
There a lot of stuff been posted here as to why people dislike or like these changes - after reading about all of the changes being made to the game I can say from my personal perspective it has already changed the way I play the game. I use to Q a lot with my tank and sometime with my DPS while my friends were offline - now I just don't play until they are online; instead I play other games. Basically MOD12B for me is completely demotivating.
So if AD now only comes from Random Q - well I guess I will be earning less AD, spending less AD, upgrading less; spending less or no real money; and generally playing less and less
Good job by the game's manufactures - because most people I talk too feel the same
I'm still trying to really wrap my head around he Idea of Random queuing and what this would change about the game. Please understand, all the criticism I have and and other have given is still valid in my eyes but I thought I would check first hand to see what it was like in PUG life. I'm not a person that uses the queue system to find a group very often, not because there is anything wrong with doing that but I often like to run things with my friends and that takes up most of my playtime. I also have 6 alts all of which are 12k IL -14k IL and an end game DC. If I wanted to do something- I have the pick of whatever I feel like.
Something is seriously wrong with the ability to queue for a dungeon. I think I understand why.
1. No one needs to run dungeons to get seals. You can get those running Small HEs in River District. That's waaay more accessible to new people since you really don't have any IL requirement to go into River District that I'm aware. Why waste your time waiting in a queue for a dungeon for 30mins to run a 10 minute-1 hr dungeon when you can cap seals quickly running Small HEs in River District? 2. There are so many places to get better gear than dungeons. IE Chult has so many sources of gear now that it makes everything else seem tedious, especially the gear you actually buy with seals. NO one wants gear you have to feed. I don't think many people were fond of the idea the first time it was introduced in Icewind Dale and it hasn't gotten any better. 3. The amount of AD you get from dungeons isn't really worth the time involved for most people. 4. Queue times are completely out of control for when I actually play. (Early morning and Evenings EST). Chats are dead, no one cares about running the same dungeons that have been out for 4 yrs. I had to wait for like 15mins-30mins to queue for something other than ETOS/CN. Higher end players will just solo most of these dungeons anyway and collect loot.
I completely agree that there needs to be some incentive to run dungeons in a dungeons and dragons game. People used to run dungeons-- even unpopular ones that they didn't like to get pieces of set bonus loot. That's why dungeons used to be useful to run. You could sell the armor piece on the AH if you got one you didn't need. It motivated people to stay at the end because the chance of getting something good was worth your time. Now, you just get a joke of a reward from a boss as a blue insignia or 3 yrs old outdated ring or belt. Maybe sometimes extremely rarely you get something else that is completely random from a dungeon but it's nothing that isn't available elsewhere.
This Random queue from what I can tell is trying to get people interested in running dungeons again. I haven't seen anything to change why people aren't interested in running dungeons other than forcing people to try content they may not have tried yet. If people don't try things and fail they don't get any better at it. Doing Small HEs in River district doesn't prepare you for running dungeon any more than a leveling dungeon is a realistic representation of the dungeon. It doesn't teach support players how to play their classes or dps how to do good dps or boss mechanics. If people don't try these things new players will continue to complain that end game content is too hard when in reality people who run dungeons all the time and are experienced don't have as much of an issue with it. It creates a false idea that you need to be high Item level to run the content when in reality the people not having issue with the content's item level makes minimal difference. They are just more experienced with running dungeons or party play/ timing buffs or have played a bit longer and have accumulated more gear.
I can't say for sure if this idea is going to work or not with random queue. After trying to PUG all week the issue has become apparent to me. No one is running dungeons much and there were only 20 people or 4 groups in TONG last night when I checked, not much elsewhere either. Sure, I got an invite but I was too busy trying to pug
Relmyna - AC/DC Righteous + Haste| Nadine - CW MoF (working on it)|Buffy - GF SM Tact| Hrist - Justice Tankadin|Healadin (Wannabe Tank)| Lena -MI Sabo TR (Farmer) | Jeska - GWF SM Destroyer (Farmer) | Maggie - HR PF Trapper (Wannabe DPS)
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
bitter, I'm in much the same shape you are in but I do PUG from time to time and running the dungeons people PUG now won't prepare anyone for FBI or MSP. RQ solo players won't make it up the Hill to Hati unless someone can basically solo it. They won't make it past Kabal in the same way. As a general rule, except for those of us with overgeared characters doing it for fun/experience, people who solo queue don't talk and they don't listen. If they are open to that, they quickly learn to take initiative and join premade groups. PUGs zerg and if that doesn't work they quit. You can't force communication and teamwork on the unwilling in a free to play game.
While I dislike the removal of choice from a personal perspective, the reason that this initiative will fail is because of the refusal to separate dungeons. Some dungeona are zergable and some require teamwork. Lumping them all together isn't going to work. A 30 min leaver penalty means nothing next to never reaching Hati or an hour of wipes at a boss. And as I understand it, once the first person takes that penalty, the rest are free to go - or stick around and pull many replacements into the instance.
If they would separate out FBI and MSP, this might not fall apart, no matter how distasteful the lack of choice might be (I have my doubts about EGWD though) Workable, even if not good. People that will talk and work together as the devs want already have the tools to find each other in guilds and custom channels.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited October 2017
Remember that one person who made a rage thread about EGWD being impossible and they and their guild had tried it so many times and they kept hammering at it for hours and failing and when asked if they were following the directions to break the immunity mechanic, they were all like, "wut?"
NW has a lot of players like that. At least that one troubled themself to make a forum thread.
This is not the case, as I indicated in my original post on the topic, players level 70 and above will have a Random Epic Dungeon and Random Skirmish. So even if you don't yet qualify for Fangbreaker or Master Spellplague, you'll be able to complete the Skirmish daily and receive the same rewards as you would have received for a daily epic dungeon in the old system.
Holy HAMSTER!!!
Could you actually BE any more condescending? Please... give it a try, this is some world class HAMSTER I want to see if you can break some sort of record for pretending something HAMSTER is actually really good!
Maybe we should change the name to "Skirmisheers" shards???
Telling us that a mere drop of just over 20% and the fact that Dungeoneer Shards are not available from actual HAMSTER Dungeons, (I believe the clue is in the name) while hey... the special people who have just ONE character who can walk through the door of FBI and MSP they don;t even need to be able to play it effectively can have an increase of over 50%... and making it sound like YOU are being badly done to?
Wow... Sub ERQ: Currently able to get 90 a week... new max at 70 ERQ qualified... currently able to get 90 a week... new max at 140.
So, generally, the people who are in the higher ranked guilds now get a bump in Dungeoneers. Those who actually need the damned things... (those who can't insta grow a new L70 to 11K with four figure Guild Boon IL bonuses)... Ahh who cares... cos the guys behind this shower of HAMSTER certainly don't.
Just as long as those numbers go up for "Enterred FBI" and "Enterred MSP" report stats. Regardless of whether they either completed it, enjoyed it, or even wanted it... nothing else matters.
Please, if the best you can come up with to justify this mess is "It's better than nothing" then eventually people might call your bluff and say, "Yeah maybe... but its not as good as (INSERT NAME OF ALTERNATIVE MEANS OF SPENDING TIME AND MONEY)"
So good luck with getting thoe dungeons filled. Just hope to God that the actual feedback and opinion on it all never genuinely matters. Because at the point that it does, and questions start being asked... someone might really regret this change.
The (un)funny thing about these 40 pages of players letting the devs know how bad of an idea this is, is most on here aren't affected by it. Most of us have the dungeons unlocked and the IL to get in to any Q. When this stupid system hits it's going to take most of the casual players by surprise because most don't read these forums and have no idea this is coming. It'll take then about a month to figure out they're being both screwed over and running dungeons that give them no loot worth a damn and then what?
ETA - I normally would never say anything like this and I even hesitate now, but the continued stance on this from the dev team putting everything behind a SKT wall coupled with the recent release of the SKT campaign buyout doesn't look good.
bitter, I'm in much the same shape you are in but I do PUG from time to time and running the dungeons people PUG now won't prepare anyone for FBI or MSP. RQ solo players won't make it up the Hill to Hati unless someone can basically solo it. They won't make it past Kabal in the same way. As a general rule, except for those of us with overgeared characters doing it for fun/experience, people who solo queue don't talk and they don't listen. If they are open to that, they quickly learn to take initiative and join premade groups. PUGs zerg and if that doesn't work they quit. You can't force communication and teamwork on the unwilling in a free to play game.
While I dislike the removal of choice from a personal perspective, the reason that this initiative will fail is because of the refusal to separate dungeons. Some dungeona are zergable and some require teamwork. Lumping them all together isn't going to work. A 30 min leaver penalty means nothing next to never reaching Hati or an hour of wipes at a boss. And as I understand it, once the first person takes that penalty, the rest are free to go - or stick around and pull many replacements into the instance.
If they would separate out FBI and MSP, this might not fall apart, no matter how distasteful the lack of choice might be (I have my doubts about EGWD though) Workable, even if not good. People that will talk and work together as the devs want already have the tools to find each other in guilds and custom channels.
I completely agree~ It could be a language barrier too. Often when pugging I am put with people who don't speak English and I am not multi-lingual. It would not matter if they are willing to talk to me or not if we cannot communicate. I'm okay with putting together a party of 5 and hitting random queue but I'm really not sure how that is going to help anyone and all we get is 'surprise! here's this dungeon that you've already done hundreds of times'. I don't like not being able to directly choose to help someone who is lower level who is asking and communicating. If they haven't grinded out he campaigns I feel like we're being forcefully segregated.
Something needs to change but I think that separating FBI and MSP into their own queue is a start since they are the sticking point since you have to finish the campagins to unlock the dungeons on the account. That's potentially months of work. Having tier 1s in their own queue would be nice too-- as well as t2 dungeons in their own random queues. If we wanted we could still click multiple random queues if we chose to do so- maybe getting a bigger bonus for selecting a wider range of queues. I fail to see how that would be any more complicated than what they are currently doing except it would still give the option for lower gear store people to try out reccomended content- let us still do low level queues to help noobies if wanted and keep out the stress of ending up in a failplauge or a TSA (when fbi goes bad)
Relmyna - AC/DC Righteous + Haste| Nadine - CW MoF (working on it)|Buffy - GF SM Tact| Hrist - Justice Tankadin|Healadin (Wannabe Tank)| Lena -MI Sabo TR (Farmer) | Jeska - GWF SM Destroyer (Farmer) | Maggie - HR PF Trapper (Wannabe DPS)
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
Remember that one person who made a rage thread about EGWD being impossible and they and their guild had tried it so many times and they kept hammering at it for hours and failing and when asked if they were following the directions to break the immunity mechanic, they were all like, "wut?"
NW has a lot of players like that. At least that one troubled themself to make a forum thread.
I personally remember giving advices on this on Reddit multiple times.
Relmyna - AC/DC Righteous + Haste| Nadine - CW MoF (working on it)|Buffy - GF SM Tact| Hrist - Justice Tankadin|Healadin (Wannabe Tank)| Lena -MI Sabo TR (Farmer) | Jeska - GWF SM Destroyer (Farmer) | Maggie - HR PF Trapper (Wannabe DPS)
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
edited November 2017
The current design allows anyone level 12+ to queue for a leveling dungeon and receive the AD reward.
New players already have a horrible experience with leveling dungeons because, in most runs, chase geared 70's down the hall with nothing to do but collect the reward at the end. This has come up many times, most recently here.
There is no reason that a level 70 toon should receive AD to run a leveling dungeon.
There are reasons they should not be given that incentive.
It creates a horrible impression of the game for new players.
It deprives new players of the opportunity to explore their class in level-appropriate group content.
It will drive geared 70's that just want the AD bonus away from the random epic dungeon queue into the random leveling dungeon queue.
The long-term success of the game depends on the experience new players have in their first days and weeks. I strongly urge that level 70 toons not be allowed to random queue for leveling dungeons.
The current design allows anyone level 12+ to queue for a leveling dungeon and receive the AD reward.
New players already have a horrible experience with leveling dungeons because, in most runs, chase geared 70's down the hall with nothing to do but collect the reward at the end. This has come up many times, most recently here.
There is no reason that a level 70 toon should receive AD to run a leveling dungeon.
There are reasons they should not be given that incentive.
It creates a horrible impression of the game for new players.
It deprives new players of the opportunity to explore their class in level-appropriate group content.
It will drive geared 70's that just want the AD bonus away from the random epic dungeon queue into the random leveling dungeon queue.
The long-term success of the game depends on the experience new players have in their first days and weeks. I strongly urge that level 70 toons not be allowed to random queue for leveling dungeons.
So if they block a 70 level person from queuing up on the leveling dungeons, and we block them from the epic because they fail to meet 100% of the content requirements of all the epic dungeons, where exactly do you expect them to queue?
Post edited by tripsofthrymr on
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
So if they block a 70 level person from queuing up on the leveling dungeons, and we block them from the epic because they fail to meet 100% of the content requirements of all the epic dungeons, where exactly do you expect them to queue?
Whatever the solution, it isn't to have level 70 toons speed-running Cloak Tower, leaving a brand-new level 12 toon in their dust.
My preferred solution was posted some weeks back and Asterdahl more less agreed that it would be better, which is simply to fix the abysmal scaling that lets over leveled chars use the dungeons as free AD farms. If the scaling wasn't so laughable, the issue simply goes away - and frankly I'd love to actually enjoy running those instances again. However, while he agreed that the scaling should be addressed, 12b will launch without it.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
2
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,451Arc User
So if they block a 70 level person from queuing up on the leveling dungeons, and we block them from the epic because they fail to meet 100% of the content requirements of all the epic dungeons, where exactly do you expect them to queue?
Whatever the solution, it isn't to have level 70 toons speed-running Cloak Tower, leaving a brand-new level 12 toon in their dust.
Then, the solution is not disallowing level 70 to run level dungeon RQ. Instead, the game should not group level 70 with non level 70 (or says level 60 and below) in a public level dungeon RQ. Private level dungeon RQ can group whatever you want. It is private.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
> @pitshade said: > My preferred solution was posted some weeks back and Asterdahl more less agreed that it would be better, which is simply to fix the abysmal scaling that lets over leveled chars use the dungeons as free AD farms. If the scaling wasn't so laughable, the issue simply goes away - and frankly I'd love to actually enjoy running those instances again. However, while he agreed that the scaling should be addressed, 12b will launch without it.
Of course it will launch without it. Why actually do something the correct way like just fixing the dungeons and loot if you want people to run them?
So if they block a 70 level person from queuing up on the leveling dungeons, and we block them from the epic because they fail to meet 100% of the content requirements of all the epic dungeons, where exactly do you expect them to queue?
Whatever the solution, it isn't to have level 70 toons speed-running Cloak Tower, leaving a brand-new level 12 toon in their dust.
The more I hear about this the more of a massive PITA it sounds like it's going to be. >_> Now they've taken my shiney blood rubies too? The idea of random queue is seeming worse the more I think about it and try to predict what kind of future we will have.
The game is already confusing enough for new people. I'm not sure why they would queue for dungeons at all after this change other than curiosity since you don't get anything from them unless you've unlocked 2-3 long campaigns.
Are the skirmishes similarly gated like they are now? You can't queue for DL/MOTH/KR ect without having unlocked some campaigns if I recall correctly. Will they be barred from those too?
Relmyna - AC/DC Righteous + Haste| Nadine - CW MoF (working on it)|Buffy - GF SM Tact| Hrist - Justice Tankadin|Healadin (Wannabe Tank)| Lena -MI Sabo TR (Farmer) | Jeska - GWF SM Destroyer (Farmer) | Maggie - HR PF Trapper (Wannabe DPS)
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
So if they block a 70 level person from queuing up on the leveling dungeons, and we block them from the epic because they fail to meet 100% of the content requirements of all the epic dungeons, where exactly do you expect them to queue?
Whatever the solution, it isn't to have level 70 toons speed-running Cloak Tower, leaving a brand-new level 12 toon in their dust.
See my feedback on pages 19 and 29 for the solution.
> @bitt3rnightmar3 said: > So if they block a 70 level person from queuing up on the leveling dungeons, and we block them from the epic because they fail to meet 100% of the content requirements of all the epic dungeons, where exactly do you expect them to queue? > > > Whatever the solution, it isn't to have level 70 toons speed-running Cloak Tower, leaving a brand-new level 12 toon in their dust. > > > > The more I hear about this the more of a massive PITA it sounds like it's going to be. >_> Now they've taken my shiney blood rubies too? The idea of random queue is seeming worse the more I think about it and try to predict what kind of future we will have. > > The game is already confusing enough for new people. I'm not sure why they would queue for dungeons at all after this change other than curiosity since you don't get anything from them unless you've unlocked 2-3 long campaigns. > > Are the skirmishes similarly gated like they are now? You can't queue for DL/MOTH/KR ect without having unlocked some campaigns if I recall correctly. Will they be barred from those too?
You can manually queue for any skirmish that you have unlocked, presumably a account wide. You should still get normal rewards for them but no AD.
MotH and Dread Legion don't offer much except tiny chances at bound items.
Underdark skirmishes should still give rings as normal.
Illusionist's Gambit will still give pet gear and RP.
New Merchant Prince one gives totems I think.
KF and ESOT, regardlesa of how the game sees them have a free chest and a campaign chest and will be a good option for salvage for non VIP to get RAD.
The RQ skirmish will probably be safe to use. The player will have to have unlocked Sharandar, Dread Ring and Chult. They can group up, of course to do these. I believe it is not necessary to do the Underdark intro for anything except EDEMO. Neither KR nor ESOT require unlocks. I did both on my pally recently before starting the campaign.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
Whatever the solution, it isn't to have level 70 toons speed-running Cloak Tower, leaving a brand-new level 12 toon in their dust.
I agree with this one pretty strongly. I recently ran CT for the Portobello's game task...I felt so bad. I'd hit Icy Terrain, and clear an entire room. I started pausing just to let other players even see the enemies. But I also wasn't the only 70 in there, so they still didn't get much action.
I've taken to doing the 3-man Stronghold HEs standing in one place and only using at-wills to make them fun (while farming influence)...I have no business in CT.
...and I'm barely 13k.
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
and who stays lvl 12 for more than 10 minutes anyway. most people level up faster than they can do the content
I'd wager that a substantial portion of people that try the game but don't stick with it stop before reaching level 70. It's those players, who aren't here on the forum representing their interests, that I'm speaking for.
I understand that the current design has some gaps. Filling the gaps at the expense of brand-new players isn't a good solution. It turns people off of the game, removing the new players we all need to keep the game strong.
> > The RQ skirmish will probably be safe to use. The player will have to have unlocked Sharandar, Dread Ring and Chult. They can group up, of course to do these. I believe it is not necessary to do the Underdark intro for anything except EDEMO. Neither KR nor ESOT require unlocks. I did both on my pally recently before starting the campaign.
New players won't have the 10k IL to get in.
2
tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
My preferred solution was posted some weeks back and Asterdahl more less agreed that it would be better, which is simply to fix the abysmal scaling that lets over leveled chars use the dungeons as free AD farms. If the scaling wasn't so laughable, the issue simply goes away - and frankly I'd love to actually enjoy running those instances again. However, while he agreed that the scaling should be addressed, 12b will launch without it.
That would be a great solution. Making level scaling work would restore the fun factor to a bunch of content that used to be challenging but can now be played one-handed while binge watching Netflix.
I really hope you all take a look at the feedback you're getting from actual new people that are bothering to even post on the forums about your game. These people are the ones that are going to make or break the health of the game, not only end gamers like me. There needs to be support for new people. Period.
I am a new player to neverwinter, first character is only lvl 32 and having recently queued for a few dungeon runs, I can say I find them most unpleasnt pointless experiances . I find myself runing all the time to catch other playes who are so powerful they seem to solo the entire place.. they dont need me, they also seem to be able to run faster than me, though that may be my short hobbit legs, they make dungeons look easier than the quests I've been doing. Bosses seem to be killed in one or two hits, if there wasn't the little pause where the short animation points out the boss, i would not even know there was one.
the quest npc'sare also too easy.. PVE combat seems trivially pointless to me so far with few challenges , if any.... I am starting to fail to see the point of it at all. I am what i expected to be a squishy class but i rarly take any significant damage.. my character hasn't died once or even been close.
I'm playing a trickster and though i have many powerful abilities, I don't seem to need them, I can defeat almost all the quest pnc's by throwing daggers at them . You can play it as a single ability character as far as i can tell. what is the point?
what am i doing wrong? I'm getting rather dishartened. Is there a dificulty setting I've missed that I can turn up. and are all dungeons done as a race where the npc don't even slow you down. and in many cases just fall into position at the back of the race running along beside you.
do any dungeons require communication and tactics or is it just fastest runner gets the to do the one-shot killing blow?
I have to say this is not what i expected or want, if end game is the same, I can't say i'm going to bother trying to get there.
He's only level 32... but the way I see it these changes to queues are only going to make people not want to do dungeons even more! The way you're changing both the AD reward system and the Random queue it's going to end up putting more and more level 70s into leveling dungeons completely ruining the experience for new players! The fact that he's even taking the time to try dungeons tells me he's interested in running them but if they are turned off by it at a low level why would they bother taking the time to level to 10k + to do anything??
Post edited by bitt3rnightmar3 on
Relmyna - AC/DC Righteous + Haste| Nadine - CW MoF (working on it)|Buffy - GF SM Tact| Hrist - Justice Tankadin|Healadin (Wannabe Tank)| Lena -MI Sabo TR (Farmer) | Jeska - GWF SM Destroyer (Farmer) | Maggie - HR PF Trapper (Wannabe DPS)
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
Seeing that many people appreciate private queue and they dont want to spoil the experience of other (low level) players...
What if we would get a private random queue added to the options? I can see myself running the private random queue for levelling dungeons on my alts not to bother starting players. The dungeons are easy anyway...
Comments
>
> Give people more incentive to do RQ and don't take away the current AD earning in normal queue. Forcing people to do something they hate is always a bad idea. Giving people incentive to do something they hate (as an option) is the way to go.
This. So much this.
If you are new to a MMO, you can check the forum and go for a class in high demand. If you are a long time player, you can roll a DC and a tank alt, so did I. While I prefer, to run with my CW main, many times I do run with my GF or DC.
So if AD now only comes from Random Q - well I guess I will be earning less AD, spending less AD, upgrading less; spending less or no real money; and generally playing less and less
Good job by the game's manufactures - because most people I talk too feel the same
Have a fun time gaming all
Something is seriously wrong with the ability to queue for a dungeon. I think I understand why.
1. No one needs to run dungeons to get seals. You can get those running Small HEs in River District. That's waaay more accessible to new people since you really don't have any IL requirement to go into River District that I'm aware. Why waste your time waiting in a queue for a dungeon for 30mins to run a 10 minute-1 hr dungeon when you can cap seals quickly running Small HEs in River District?
2. There are so many places to get better gear than dungeons. IE Chult has so many sources of gear now that it makes everything else seem tedious, especially the gear you actually buy with seals. NO one wants gear you have to feed. I don't think many people were fond of the idea the first time it was introduced in Icewind Dale and it hasn't gotten any better.
3. The amount of AD you get from dungeons isn't really worth the time involved for most people.
4. Queue times are completely out of control for when I actually play. (Early morning and Evenings EST). Chats are dead, no one cares about running the same dungeons that have been out for 4 yrs. I had to wait for like 15mins-30mins to queue for something other than ETOS/CN. Higher end players will just solo most of these dungeons anyway and collect loot.
I completely agree that there needs to be some incentive to run dungeons in a dungeons and dragons game. People used to run dungeons-- even unpopular ones that they didn't like to get pieces of set bonus loot. That's why dungeons used to be useful to run. You could sell the armor piece on the AH if you got one you didn't need. It motivated people to stay at the end because the chance of getting something good was worth your time. Now, you just get a joke of a reward from a boss as a blue insignia or 3 yrs old outdated ring or belt. Maybe sometimes extremely rarely you get something else that is completely random from a dungeon but it's nothing that isn't available elsewhere.
This Random queue from what I can tell is trying to get people interested in running dungeons again. I haven't seen anything to change why people aren't interested in running dungeons other than forcing people to try content they may not have tried yet. If people don't try things and fail they don't get any better at it. Doing Small HEs in River district doesn't prepare you for running dungeon any more than a leveling dungeon is a realistic representation of the dungeon. It doesn't teach support players how to play their classes or dps how to do good dps or boss mechanics. If people don't try these things new players will continue to complain that end game content is too hard when in reality people who run dungeons all the time and are experienced don't have as much of an issue with it. It creates a false idea that you need to be high Item level to run the content when in reality the people not having issue with the content's item level makes minimal difference. They are just more experienced with running dungeons or party play/ timing buffs or have played a bit longer and have accumulated more gear.
I can't say for sure if this idea is going to work or not with random queue. After trying to PUG all week the issue has become apparent to me. No one is running dungeons much and there were only 20 people or 4 groups in TONG last night when I checked, not much elsewhere either. Sure, I got an invite but I was too busy trying to pug
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I'll never retrace my steps.
Some of my best friends are Imaginary.
While I dislike the removal of choice from a personal perspective, the reason that this initiative will fail is because of the refusal to separate dungeons. Some dungeona are zergable and some require teamwork. Lumping them all together isn't going to work. A 30 min leaver penalty means nothing next to never reaching Hati or an hour of wipes at a boss. And as I understand it, once the first person takes that penalty, the rest are free to go - or stick around and pull many replacements into the instance.
If they would separate out FBI and MSP, this might not fall apart, no matter how distasteful the lack of choice might be (I have my doubts about EGWD though) Workable, even if not good. People that will talk and work together as the devs want already have the tools to find each other in guilds and custom channels.
NW has a lot of players like that. At least that one troubled themself to make a forum thread.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Could you actually BE any more condescending?
Please... give it a try, this is some world class HAMSTER I want to see if you can break some sort of record for pretending something HAMSTER is actually really good!
Maybe we should change the name to "Skirmisheers" shards???
Telling us that a mere drop of just over 20% and the fact that Dungeoneer Shards are not available from actual HAMSTER Dungeons, (I believe the clue is in the name) while hey... the special people who have just ONE character who can walk through the door of FBI and MSP they don;t even need to be able to play it effectively can have an increase of over 50%... and making it sound like YOU are being badly done to?
Wow...
Sub ERQ: Currently able to get 90 a week... new max at 70
ERQ qualified... currently able to get 90 a week... new max at 140.
So, generally, the people who are in the higher ranked guilds now get a bump in Dungeoneers. Those who actually need the damned things... (those who can't insta grow a new L70 to 11K with four figure Guild Boon IL bonuses)... Ahh who cares... cos the guys behind this shower of HAMSTER certainly don't.
Just as long as those numbers go up for "Enterred FBI" and "Enterred MSP" report stats. Regardless of whether they either completed it, enjoyed it, or even wanted it... nothing else matters.
Please, if the best you can come up with to justify this mess is "It's better than nothing" then eventually people might call your bluff and say, "Yeah maybe... but its not as good as (INSERT NAME OF ALTERNATIVE MEANS OF SPENDING TIME AND MONEY)"
So good luck with getting thoe dungeons filled.
Just hope to God that the actual feedback and opinion on it all never genuinely matters. Because at the point that it does, and questions start being asked... someone might really regret this change.
ETA - I normally would never say anything like this and I even hesitate now, but the continued stance on this from the dev team putting everything behind a SKT wall coupled with the recent release of the SKT campaign buyout doesn't look good.
I completely agree~ It could be a language barrier too. Often when pugging I am put with people who don't speak English and I am not multi-lingual. It would not matter if they are willing to talk to me or not if we cannot communicate. I'm okay with putting together a party of 5 and hitting random queue but I'm really not sure how that is going to help anyone and all we get is 'surprise! here's this dungeon that you've already done hundreds of times'. I don't like not being able to directly choose to help someone who is lower level who is asking and communicating. If they haven't grinded out he campaigns I feel like we're being forcefully segregated.
Something needs to change but I think that separating FBI and MSP into their own queue is a start since they are the sticking point since you have to finish the campagins to unlock the dungeons on the account. That's potentially months of work. Having tier 1s in their own queue would be nice too-- as well as t2 dungeons in their own random queues. If we wanted we could still click multiple random queues if we chose to do so- maybe getting a bigger bonus for selecting a wider range of queues. I fail to see how that would be any more complicated than what they are currently doing except it would still give the option for lower gear store people to try out reccomended content- let us still do low level queues to help noobies if wanted and keep out the stress of ending up in a failplauge or a TSA (when fbi goes bad)
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I'll never retrace my steps.
Some of my best friends are Imaginary.
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I'll never retrace my steps.
Some of my best friends are Imaginary.
New players already have a horrible experience with leveling dungeons because, in most runs, chase geared 70's down the hall with nothing to do but collect the reward at the end. This has come up many times, most recently here.
There is no reason that a level 70 toon should receive AD to run a leveling dungeon.
There are reasons they should not be given that incentive.
- It creates a horrible impression of the game for new players.
- It deprives new players of the opportunity to explore their class in level-appropriate group content.
- It will drive geared 70's that just want the AD bonus away from the random epic dungeon queue into the random leveling dungeon queue.
The long-term success of the game depends on the experience new players have in their first days and weeks. I strongly urge that level 70 toons not be allowed to random queue for leveling dungeons.Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
> My preferred solution was posted some weeks back and Asterdahl more less agreed that it would be better, which is simply to fix the abysmal scaling that lets over leveled chars use the dungeons as free AD farms. If the scaling wasn't so laughable, the issue simply goes away - and frankly I'd love to actually enjoy running those instances again. However, while he agreed that the scaling should be addressed, 12b will launch without it.
Of course it will launch without it. Why actually do something the correct way like just fixing the dungeons and loot if you want people to run them?
The game is already confusing enough for new people. I'm not sure why they would queue for dungeons at all after this change other than curiosity since you don't get anything from them unless you've unlocked 2-3 long campaigns.
Are the skirmishes similarly gated like they are now? You can't queue for DL/MOTH/KR ect without having unlocked some campaigns if I recall correctly. Will they be barred from those too?
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I'll never retrace my steps.
Some of my best friends are Imaginary.
> So if they block a 70 level person from queuing up on the leveling dungeons, and we block them from the epic because they fail to meet 100% of the content requirements of all the epic dungeons, where exactly do you expect them to queue?
>
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> Whatever the solution, it isn't to have level 70 toons speed-running Cloak Tower, leaving a brand-new level 12 toon in their dust.
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>
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> The more I hear about this the more of a massive PITA it sounds like it's going to be. >_> Now they've taken my shiney blood rubies too? The idea of random queue is seeming worse the more I think about it and try to predict what kind of future we will have.
>
> The game is already confusing enough for new people. I'm not sure why they would queue for dungeons at all after this change other than curiosity since you don't get anything from them unless you've unlocked 2-3 long campaigns.
>
> Are the skirmishes similarly gated like they are now? You can't queue for DL/MOTH/KR ect without having unlocked some campaigns if I recall correctly. Will they be barred from those too?
You can manually queue for any skirmish that you have unlocked, presumably a account wide. You should still get normal rewards for them but no AD.
MotH and Dread Legion don't offer much except tiny chances at bound items.
Underdark skirmishes should still give rings as normal.
Illusionist's Gambit will still give pet gear and RP.
New Merchant Prince one gives totems I think.
KF and ESOT, regardlesa of how the game sees them have a free chest and a campaign chest and will be a good option for salvage for non VIP to get RAD.
The RQ skirmish will probably be safe to use. The player will have to have unlocked Sharandar, Dread Ring and Chult. They can group up, of course to do these. I believe it is not necessary to do the Underdark intro for anything except EDEMO. Neither KR nor ESOT require unlocks. I did both on my pally recently before starting the campaign.
I've taken to doing the 3-man Stronghold HEs standing in one place and only using at-wills to make them fun (while farming influence)...I have no business in CT.
...and I'm barely 13k.
I understand that the current design has some gaps. Filling the gaps at the expense of brand-new players isn't a good solution. It turns people off of the game, removing the new players we all need to keep the game strong.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
>
> The RQ skirmish will probably be safe to use. The player will have to have unlocked Sharandar, Dread Ring and Chult. They can group up, of course to do these. I believe it is not necessary to do the Underdark intro for anything except EDEMO. Neither KR nor ESOT require unlocks. I did both on my pally recently before starting the campaign.
New players won't have the 10k IL to get in.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
I really hope you all take a look at the feedback you're getting from actual new people that are bothering to even post on the forums about your game. These people are the ones that are going to make or break the health of the game, not only end gamers like me. There needs to be support for new people. Period.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1235124/new-player-help-needed
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1235128/new-player-help-and-advice-needed He's only level 32... but the way I see it these changes to queues are only going to make people not want to do dungeons even more! The way you're changing both the AD reward system and the Random queue it's going to end up putting more and more level 70s into leveling dungeons completely ruining the experience for new players! The fact that he's even taking the time to try dungeons tells me he's interested in running them but if they are turned off by it at a low level why would they bother taking the time to level to 10k + to do anything??
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I'll never retrace my steps.
Some of my best friends are Imaginary.
What if we would get a private random queue added to the options?
I can see myself running the private random queue for levelling dungeons on my alts not to bother starting players. The dungeons are easy anyway...
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