I am guessing this is their way of saying there is no new content coming out for awhile so we are going to slow your progress by limiting you to one dungeon a day.
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bigredbrentMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 155Arc User
Wait, you guys are pushing the preview live this week? Have you lost your freaking minds? You say you are reviewing the feedback given across multiple threads, yet you still push this forward.
@nitocris83 - I would like for you to sit down with @mimicking#6533 and have big long think about what "reviewing feedback" means to you. And what it might mean to the player base. Because when we think about reviewing feedback, it means we hold off on changes until the feedback has been reviewed, and adjusted accordingly.
Where are the changes, where is the details from you? No where. Instead, as always, the devs have asked for feedback, ignore it completely, and then pushed the original change onto us. We've been asking for you to come to the table and listen to us, to stop repeating the mistakes you've been making with past changes or "updates". MimincKing gets back on the scene, we have a new CM and are told that yes, we are listening.
This update shows 100% that you've done the same old, the complete opposite of what you have promised you'd start doing. And we are getting tired of it.
Exactly this!!!
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
kalina311 said: @mimicking Why not List the new loot tables/ item descriptions and their drop chance you should be happy to brag and show us these things right ?? since you have been working soooo hard on new treasure loot with 2.5 devs as you stated ...
thats what we really want to see here stop getting distracted by extra bag space guys lol
Where are the loot tables and drop chances listed that justify keys changes now or are they just going to be released without our feedback arbitrarily ....cause you know deadlines and all blah blah .... ??
Kalina- Good questions. Again, we are testing in house and making sure that not only everything works, but new items are actually cool and provide game play choices and value. Some of them may not pass muster, others may tuned or have things added, and drop rate ratios dialed in- which is why I said when we are ready to put up on preview we'll provide more details. I appreciate your patience.
Kalina now writes .........!!!!!!!
So tell us about these drop ratios and rates ..How come there is no progressive guaranteed loot for anything like feedback also mentioned
And how exactly are we supposed to test the items and their bugged interactions with powers either If there is no vendor that produces them.... For you know testing ...You guys should be proud to brag and show off these items so positive word of mouth gets out ...
So where are these more loot related details like you said you know the nuts and bolts the nitty gritty No non pull the wool over our eyes material show us the drop rates so we can be on your side List the items and what they do..... You know the "Treasure"..... So it sparks some excitement to actually buy keys which is what you want
Where is the treasure that we are supposed to get super excited about and start emptying wallets ffs
Have the drop rates been "Dialed in yet " your words..... : d how can we even know if they need adjusting if you wont tell us what they actually are
Main theme in case you did not get it ......Justification of drop rate vs key changes vs rewards
The idea was to work on bettering low and mid grade loot making high end loot slightly easier to obtain after 1000+ runs and adding nw cool random loot that can drop in any areas and any chest randomly ..And to at least justify the cost of the key or half the cost
Worst case the lottery ticket(the key rng ) (or a couple) should give another free lottery ticket
And where are the areas listed that these new item drop and how many of them will simply have a zen store equivalency anyways ..
you should have given end bosses the same loot table as the dungeon key chest. everyone gets one drop off the end boss and those items are BoE. I think that would have satisfied at least 75% of the people who are on the verge of quitting right now.
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lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
I ran underdark 15k times.. FIFTEEN THOUSAND dungeons.. never got the +5 rings I wanted.
You've been playing Underdark for at least 625 days total, just counting dungeons at a minimum of 20 minutes a run? Wow...
Even at 5 minutes a run, that's 52 day straight, with no breaks. Underdark has only been out 70 days. Wow. That is some dedication to the game.
70 days, really - wow.
Smug and flippant moderators/community managers aside, whilst the numbers are obviously exaggerated the general thrust of the argument is the same and is valid. We have all ran these dungeons many many times 100's if not 1000's for almost no showing of +5 Rings. Personally myself (running probably 2-5 runs per day) have only ever seen 1 +5 Ring.
Wait, you guys are pushing the preview live this week? Have you lost your freaking minds? You say you are reviewing the feedback given across multiple threads, yet you still push this forward.
@nitocris83 - I would like for you to sit down with @mimicking#6533 and have big long think about what "reviewing feedback" means to you. And what it might mean to the player base. Because when we think about reviewing feedback, it means we hold off on changes until the feedback has been reviewed, and adjusted accordingly.
Where are the changes, where is the details from you? No where. Instead, as always, the devs have asked for feedback, ignore it completely, and then pushed the original change onto us. We've been asking for you to come to the table and listen to us, to stop repeating the mistakes you've been making with past changes or "updates". MimincKing gets back on the scene, we have a new CM and are told that yes, we are listening.
This update shows 100% that you've done the same old, the complete opposite of what you have promised you'd start doing. And we are getting tired of it.
+1 very well articulated.
@nitocris83 players feel deceived... again. The communication from @mimicking#6533 has been purposefully misleading... again.
Cryptic was acquired by Perfect World in August 2011 and is now a wholly owned subsidiary of Perfect World. Neverwinter launched in 2013 and Cryptic is now developing unannounced projects. The company continues to rapidly diversify its portfolio of games with the aim of reaching beyond the traditional MMORPG genre.
notice the BOLDED sentence. They gotta pay dev salaries that arent yet attached to something billable somehow!
I ran underdark 15k times.. FIFTEEN THOUSAND dungeons.. never got the +5 rings I wanted.
You've been playing Underdark for at least 625 days total, just counting dungeons at a minimum of 20 minutes a run? Wow...
Even at 5 minutes a run, that's 52 day straight, with no breaks. Underdark has only been out 70 days. Wow. That is some dedication to the game.
70 days, really - wow.
Smug and flippant moderators/community managers aside, whilst the numbers are obviously exaggerated the general thrust of the argument is the same and is valid. We have all ran these dungeons many many times 100's if not 1000's for almost no showing of +5 Rings. Personally myself (running probably 2-5 runs per day) have only ever seen 1 +5 Ring.
You think that is a good thing?
That !!! And now is even worse since you will need to buy keys for that
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
I ran underdark 15k times.. FIFTEEN THOUSAND dungeons.. never got the +5 rings I wanted.
You've been playing Underdark for at least 625 days total, just counting dungeons at a minimum of 20 minutes a run? Wow...
Even at 5 minutes a run, that's 52 day straight, with no breaks. Underdark has only been out 70 days. Wow. That is some dedication to the game.
70 days, really - wow.
Smug and flippant moderators/community managers aside, whilst the numbers are obviously exaggerated the general thrust of the argument is the same and is valid. We have all ran these dungeons many many times 100's if not 1000's for almost no showing of +5 Rings. Personally myself (running probably 2-5 runs per day) have only ever seen 1 +5 Ring.
You think that is a good thing?
While I agree that the drop rate was too low, and may still be too low, the items are meant to be rare for a reason. If they raise the drop rate too much on the +5 rings, they won't be as rare, and therefore may not be as sought after. What do you do when you already have all the possible drops from a dungeon?
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
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dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
It's a little premature to roll out the pitchforks.
Whether this change is good or not depends entirely on the new loot tables. I'm not aware that anyone has opened the thousand or two chests on Preview that are needed for a statistically significant sample.
Doom and gloom based on your expectations of what the change is going to be won't help anyone. The update is here. Try it out. See what loot you get. See what loot your party members and friends get. Share feedback based on experience rather than guesswork.
I'm quite sure the developers are open to fact-based discussion about the new system.
I don't think you are listening to the comments. The biggest problem, as @confusedpoof and others have said, is that it rolled out AT ALL without any evidence of adjustment based on feedback. Your suggestion that we "run in a few thousand times on preview" before we have enough statistically significant evidence to challenge our masters is, frankly, insulting.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
If they dont want to flat out publish drop rates then all of this could be fixed simply by making a simple online web app with a chest and when a user clicks on it it produces a query or a "roll" of items that you are shown. The chest is connected to the same loot table DB that is in the game. That way we could actually get a better idea of the rates.
What I just explained would take any semi competent developer a couple hours to do if that. Here ill foot the bill of 2 programming hrs. Should be around $200 bucks. Yall can thank me later.
I ran underdark 15k times.. FIFTEEN THOUSAND dungeons.. never got the +5 rings I wanted.
You've been playing Underdark for at least 625 days total, just counting dungeons at a minimum of 20 minutes a run? Wow...
Even at 5 minutes a run, that's 52 day straight, with no breaks. Underdark has only been out 70 days. Wow. That is some dedication to the game.
PS4 got all the expansions at once so I cannot be certain, but didn't underdark come out over a year ago? I could definitely be wrong. Nevertheless, the point is the +5's are insanely low drop rate, and generally are the only reason worth continuing playing demo (aside from helping guildies/friends). With peeking being free, you could continue to help and just check if there was anything in it for you (to date, there hasnt been for me). But am I going to help if it costs me 50 cents a run?
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
We have all ran these dungeons many many times 100's if not 1000's for almost no showing of +5 Rings. Personally myself (running probably 2-5 runs per day) have only ever seen 1 +5 Ring.
You think that is a good thing?
If dedicated players can't obtain the best items after hundreds of runs, something's clearly wrong. That was the case with the old "peek, horribly RNG chances" system. I ran hundreds of times myself and don't have a single +5 (not even one of the sucky ones) to show for it.
Back before there were modules, it was extraordinarily fun to run dungeons for the T1 and then T2 gear, either for my own toons or to help guildies. There were horror stories of people that ran a specific dungeon 30 times for that last set piece. That's an acceptable statistical outlier ("bad luck case"). I think I averaged probably 5-10 runs per piece.
For some existing loot, there is a system where you can either get lucky and get it on a run or save up tokens (e.g. seals) to purchase the item or something very similar. Something like that would be welcome to put an upper bound on how many runs are needed for a given item. Another approach would be to track how many runs a toon had without a "very rare" drop and give them a progressive bonus on the loot rolls until they do get a "very rare" drop, then reset the counter. That wouldn't guarantee you the specific +5 ring you hope for, but it would make it more predictable (and fair) how many runs you need to make to get something cool.
I ran underdark 15k times.. FIFTEEN THOUSAND dungeons.. never got the +5 rings I wanted.
You've been playing Underdark for at least 625 days total, just counting dungeons at a minimum of 20 minutes a run? Wow...
Even at 5 minutes a run, that's 52 day straight, with no breaks. Underdark has only been out 70 days. Wow. That is some dedication to the game.
PS4 got all the expansions at once so I cannot be certain, but didn't underdark come out over a year ago? I could definitely be wrong. Nevertheless, the point is the +5's are insanely low drop rate, and generally are the only reason worth continuing playing demo (aside from helping guildies/friends). With peeking being free, you could continue to help and just check if there was anything in it for you (to date, there hasnt been for me). But am I going to help if it costs me 50 cents a run?
I think the PC players are this mad (like me) because they started to play back when you could sell everthing you could get from dungeons in the AH... When they remember the good times and look to the game today they must think: "what happen here where's the game i loved soo much back then ?" because that is what i feel, and change after change it get worse...
You know , in Brazil there's a popular saying that in english would be like "If you are stressed, go fishing !" Look's like this game now and i dont like fishing even in real life...
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
I don't think you are listening to the comments. The biggest problem, as @confusedpoof and others have said, is that it rolled out AT ALL without any evidence of adjustment based on feedback.
Totally agree (and already did in a previous comment). This was rolled out too quickly.
Your suggestion that we "run in a few thousand times on preview" before we have enough statistically significant evidence to challenge our masters is, frankly, insulting.
I didn't suggest that anyone go run a thousand times on preview. I stated a fact of statistics, without having that many observations (sample points), it's unknowable whether the new loot table is favorable or unfavorable.
I think it would benefit the game if the loot chances were publicized. Sure, there would be second guessing and argument about whether the tables should be changed. There would also be risk of "false advertising" if the publicized drop rates aren't automatically generated from the actual program code (risk of human error). In the absence of real information, people tend to assume the worst. Transparency wins out in the long run.
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
I play 5-6 hours every day.. most of my time is in dungeons (which is why I hated mod 10.. its all bout not doing dungeons) hopefully for the short term this fixes that..
Also your timing is way off.. its 5 mins for a nemo (did it for 8 toons for boons ) and did it for months.. on at least 2-3 others every day for making keys. (2-3 times a day on each) Have 6 twisted sets so far (actually have more twisted sitting around not bought) have run Cn thousands of times (even before all the power creep it was possible to do in ten mins.. 20 mins , where do you guys get these times..) have run pom/throne (these are the time suckers and best skipped)
Your calculations in terms of length are just off.
I would probably half them.. so yes, I could've run these around that time frame.. I have approx. 3500 playing hours or something like that total.
I know people with triple what I have.. and who run things triple the amount. if not more.
We have all ran these dungeons many many times 100's if not 1000's for almost no showing of +5 Rings. Personally myself (running probably 2-5 runs per day) have only ever seen 1 +5 Ring.
You think that is a good thing?
If dedicated players can't obtain the best items after hundreds of runs, something's clearly wrong. That was the case with the old "peek, horribly RNG chances" system. I ran hundreds of times myself and don't have a single +5 (not even one of the sucky ones) to show for it.
Back before there were modules, it was extraordinarily fun to run dungeons for the T1 and then T2 gear, either for my own toons or to help guildies. There were horror stories of people that ran a specific dungeon 30 times for that last set piece. That's an acceptable statistical outlier ("bad luck case"). I think I averaged probably 5-10 runs per piece.
For some existing loot, there is a system where you can either get lucky and get it on a run or save up tokens (e.g. seals) to purchase the item or something very similar. Something like that would be welcome to put an upper bound on how many runs are needed for a given item. Another approach would be to track how many runs a toon had without a "very rare" drop and give them a progressive bonus on the loot rolls until they do get a "very rare" drop, then reset the counter. That wouldn't guarantee you the specific +5 ring you hope for, but it would make it more predictable (and fair) how many runs you need to make to get something cool.
Yeah 100% agreed there and that was a lot of posts in this direction (seals like) but nothing like that came to the "new" changes, so i really don't hope something like that will be released anymore, was like 2 or 3 month's off feedback and that is what we got...
Funny how Moderators jump on the players with such a smug attitude. Maybe they will reassign you to another game after you are done killing Neverwinter. Then again, maybe not. I assumed that some of you knew right from wrong, but it is probably just better for some of you to keep your mouths shut before you embarrass yourselves even more.
I have quit and will never be back except to giveaway my Transcendent Enchantments to some random lowbies. I wouldn't poke the bear if I was you guys though. The job market is pretty rough out there for keyboard warriors.
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dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
One of the processes we are trying to streamline internally is aligning our Console and PC features for when Xbox One and PS4 versions catch up to the current module. Because Console has additional steps due to Certification, release dates must be decided in advance (which, of course, can still be delayed at the last minute because it’s game development and if something will go wrong, the other thing you didn’t expect will go wrong). With M10b releasing on Console on 1/17, we needed to include the key changes on that date. In an effort to continue providing our PC players Preview access to new features, we made the decision to put this change on Preview as early as possible given the chaos of December and Holidays. This meant that the earliest date available for preview was last week. We felt that, while one week was a short time, it was still more optimal than no Preview access.
As stated in the key change blog, we understand this update doesn’t address all the concerns and we have been absorbing all your feedback. Because design changes are a constantly evolving part of game development, we felt that stating that the preview would only last a week would create a sense of finality that we are not intending. We will continue to ask for constructive feedback, now with the benefit of larger volume of players interacting with the changes, and having both internal discussions on Key Changes/Chest Rewards and communicating with our players as best as possible.
One of the processes we are trying to streamline internally is aligning our Console and PC features for when Xbox One and PS4 versions catch up to the current module. Because Console has additional steps due to Certification, release dates must be decided in advance (which, of course, can still be delayed at the last minute because it’s game development and if something will go wrong, the other thing you didn’t expect will go wrong). With M10b releasing on Console on 1/17, we needed to include the key changes on that date. In an effort to continue providing our PC players Preview access to new features, we made the decision to put this change on Preview as early as possible given the chaos of December and Holidays. This meant that the earliest date available for preview was last week. We felt that, while one week was a short time, it was still more optimal than no Preview access.
So then console players can expect these same key changes on the 17th?
The real problem here isn't the terrible decision, it's that it's a terrible decision that is also paired with a complete lack of trust from the player base. One week.
PWE, thanks for the memories and bitter feelings. Cryptic, thanks for the great improvement in communication.
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
I play 5-6 hours every day.. most of my time is in dungeons (which is why I hated mod 10.. its all bout not doing dungeons) hopefully for the short term this fixes that..
Also your timing is way off.. its 5 mins for a nemo (did it for 8 toons for boons ) and did it for months.. on at least 2-3 others every day for making keys. (2-3 times a day on each) Have 6 twisted sets so far (actually have more twisted sitting around not bought) have run Cn thousands of times (even before all the power creep it was possible to do in ten mins.. 20 mins , where do you guys get these times..) have run pom/throne (these are the time suckers and best skipped)
Your calculations in terms of length are just off.
I would probably half them.. so yes, I could've run these around that time frame.. I have approx. 3500 playing hours or something like that total.
I know people with triple what I have.. and who run things triple the amount. if not more.
Running 5 minute dungeons for 6 hours a day for 70 days still is no where near 15,000 times. It's closer to 500 times. Just because you have 3500 hours, Underdark wasn't released until November 3rd, which was 70 days ago. Your calculations on the amount of times you have ran them are just off.
But I digress. If the original drop rate on the Legendary Rings was 1 in 1000, and they doubled it to 1 in 500, that's still quite low, though honestly, I think the original drop rate was even larger than that, maybe 1 in 10000 or so. But I have on evidence to back that up, so only the devs know the true drop rate. The RNG is a fickle enough beast. They do need to make the drops obtainable by a good portion of the population.
Edit: Bah... it's 2017. Where did the time go. I apologize for my mistaken dates.
Post edited by kreatyve on
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
I ran underdark 15k times.. FIFTEEN THOUSAND dungeons.. never got the +5 rings I wanted.
You've been playing Underdark for at least 625 days total, just counting dungeons at a minimum of 20 minutes a run? Wow...
Even at 5 minutes a run, that's 52 day straight, with no breaks. Underdark has only been out 70 days. Wow. That is some dedication to the game.
70 days, really - wow.
Smug and flippant moderators/community managers aside, whilst the numbers are obviously exaggerated the general thrust of the argument is the same and is valid. We have all ran these dungeons many many times 100's if not 1000's for almost no showing of +5 Rings. Personally myself (running probably 2-5 runs per day) have only ever seen 1 +5 Ring.
You think that is a good thing?
While I agree that the drop rate was too low, and may still be too low, the items are meant to be rare for a reason. If they raise the drop rate too much on the +5 rings, they won't be as rare, and therefore may not be as sought after. What do you do when you already have all the possible drops from a dungeon?
That's a pretty silly question. Once you have everything you want, you continue to run the content to sell the goods to those who can't/don't want to run it.
Oh wait we can't do that because everything is bound. You are right. there is 0 reason to run the content after you get what you want.
That's why I spend all day in zone chat. No reason to do anything else.
Maybe the new loot tables are horrible. If they are, I'll be one of the most vocal critics. I'm just not going to assume they suck based on extremely limited experience.
After 3 years you still give the devs the benefit of doubt?
We have all ran these dungeons many many times 100's if not 1000's for almost no showing of +5 Rings. Personally myself (running probably 2-5 runs per day) have only ever seen 1 +5 Ring.
You think that is a good thing?
If dedicated players can't obtain the best items after hundreds of runs, something's clearly wrong. That was the case with the old "peek, horribly RNG chances" system. I ran hundreds of times myself and don't have a single +5 (not even one of the sucky ones) to show for it.
Back before there were modules, it was extraordinarily fun to run dungeons for the T1 and then T2 gear, either for my own toons or to help guildies. There were horror stories of people that ran a specific dungeon 30 times for that last set piece. That's an acceptable statistical outlier ("bad luck case"). I think I averaged probably 5-10 runs per piece.
For some existing loot, there is a system where you can either get lucky and get it on a run or save up tokens (e.g. seals) to purchase the item or something very similar. Something like that would be welcome to put an upper bound on how many runs are needed for a given item. Another approach would be to track how many runs a toon had without a "very rare" drop and give them a progressive bonus on the loot rolls until they do get a "very rare" drop, then reset the counter. That wouldn't guarantee you the specific +5 ring you hope for, but it would make it more predictable (and fair) how many runs you need to make to get something cool.
One of the processes we are trying to streamline internally is aligning our Console and PC features for when Xbox One and PS4 versions catch up to the current module. Because Console has additional steps due to Certification, release dates must be decided in advance (which, of course, can still be delayed at the last minute because it’s game development and if something will go wrong, the other thing you didn’t expect will go wrong). With M10b releasing on Console on 1/17, we needed to include the key changes on that date. In an effort to continue providing our PC players Preview access to new features, we made the decision to put this change on Preview as early as possible given the chaos of December and Holidays. This meant that the earliest date available for preview was last week. We felt that, while one week was a short time, it was still more optimal than no Preview access.
As stated in the key change blog, we understand this update doesn’t address all the concerns and we have been absorbing all your feedback. Because design changes are a constantly evolving part of game development, we felt that stating that the preview would only last a week would create a sense of finality that we are not intending. We will continue to ask for constructive feedback, now with the benefit of larger volume of players interacting with the changes, and having both internal discussions on Key Changes/Chest Rewards and communicating with our players as best as possible.
Thanks Julia, I think that context is very helpful.
The subtext here is also that you wanted to avoid having consoles have peak available as they start to farm legendary marks. That's reasonable, if disappointing.
We understand these updates may not resolve all the concerns players have shared with us but we feel it is a step forward in addressing RNG + Loot Quality.
I assume you're referring to this line at the end of the blog.
My question is this: is it intentional that the changes don't address the underlying reality that all worthwhile loot in this game is based on RNG?
Follow-up: is there any plan for introducing a system to mitigate that in any way (systems like seals, or ring/relic exchanges, many of which have been suggested)?
From the blog, it seems like you might be adding additional (likely account-bound) seasonal rewards to chests. So, the casino might get shinier prizes, but will fundamentally remain a casino.
(a casino in which the only game where players break even is fishing)
Comments
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1226510/dungeon-key-changes-update/p4
kalina311 said:
@mimicking
Why not List the new loot tables/ item descriptions and their drop chance you should be happy to brag and show us these things right ?? since you have been working soooo hard on new treasure loot with 2.5 devs as you stated ...
thats what we really want to see here stop getting distracted by extra bag space guys lol
Where are the loot tables and drop chances listed that justify keys changes now or are they just going to be released without our feedback arbitrarily ....cause you know deadlines and all blah blah .... ??
@mimicking responded ....
Kalina- Good questions. Again, we are testing in house and making sure that not only everything works, but new items are actually cool and provide game play choices and value. Some of them may not pass muster, others may tuned or have things added, and drop rate ratios dialed in- which is why I said when we are ready to put up on preview we'll provide more details. I appreciate your patience.
Kalina now writes .........!!!!!!!
So tell us about these drop ratios and rates ..How come there is no progressive guaranteed loot for anything like feedback also mentioned
And how exactly are we supposed to test the items and their bugged interactions with powers either
If there is no vendor that produces them.... For you know testing ...You guys should be proud to brag and show off these items so positive word of mouth gets out ...
So where are these more loot related details like you said you know the nuts and bolts the nitty gritty
No non pull the wool over our eyes material show us the drop rates so we can be on your side
List the items and what they do..... You know the "Treasure"..... So it sparks some excitement to actually buy keys which is what you want
Where is the treasure that we are supposed to get super excited about and start emptying wallets ffs
Have the drop rates been "Dialed in yet " your words..... : d how can we even know if they need adjusting if you wont tell us what they actually are
Main theme in case you did not get it ......Justification of drop rate vs key changes vs rewards
The idea was to work on bettering low and mid grade loot making high end loot slightly easier to obtain after 1000+ runs and adding nw cool random loot that can drop in any areas and any chest randomly ..And to at least justify the cost of the key or half the cost
Worst case the lottery ticket(the key rng ) (or a couple) should give another free lottery ticket
And where are the areas listed that these new item drop and how many of them will simply have a zen store equivalency anyways ..
Moderator removed shouty caps.
This was put on preview as a smoke screen and most likely the live roll out date was set at the same time, 1 week later. Spurious
Smug and flippant moderators/community managers aside, whilst the numbers are obviously exaggerated the general thrust of the argument is the same and is valid. We have all ran these dungeons many many times 100's if not 1000's for almost no showing of +5 Rings. Personally myself (running probably 2-5 runs per day) have only ever seen 1 +5 Ring.
You think that is a good thing?
@nitocris83 players feel deceived... again. The communication from @mimicking#6533 has been purposefully misleading... again.
And now is even worse since you will need to buy keys for that
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Your suggestion that we "run in a few thousand times on preview" before we have enough statistically significant evidence to challenge our masters is, frankly, insulting.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
What I just explained would take any semi competent developer a couple hours to do if that. Here ill foot the bill of 2 programming hrs. Should be around $200 bucks. Yall can thank me later.
Back before there were modules, it was extraordinarily fun to run dungeons for the T1 and then T2 gear, either for my own toons or to help guildies. There were horror stories of people that ran a specific dungeon 30 times for that last set piece. That's an acceptable statistical outlier ("bad luck case"). I think I averaged probably 5-10 runs per piece.
For some existing loot, there is a system where you can either get lucky and get it on a run or save up tokens (e.g. seals) to purchase the item or something very similar. Something like that would be welcome to put an upper bound on how many runs are needed for a given item. Another approach would be to track how many runs a toon had without a "very rare" drop and give them a progressive bonus on the loot rolls until they do get a "very rare" drop, then reset the counter. That wouldn't guarantee you the specific +5 ring you hope for, but it would make it more predictable (and fair) how many runs you need to make to get something cool.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
"what happen here where's the game i loved soo much back then ?"
because that is what i feel, and change after change it get worse...
You know , in Brazil there's a popular saying that in english would be like "If you are stressed, go fishing !"
Look's like this game now and i dont like fishing even in real life...
I think it would benefit the game if the loot chances were publicized. Sure, there would be second guessing and argument about whether the tables should be changed. There would also be risk of "false advertising" if the publicized drop rates aren't automatically generated from the actual program code (risk of human error). In the absence of real information, people tend to assume the worst. Transparency wins out in the long run.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
I play 5-6 hours every day.. most of my time is in dungeons (which is why I hated mod 10.. its all bout not doing dungeons)
hopefully for the short term this fixes that..
Also your timing is way off.. its 5 mins for a nemo (did it for 8 toons for boons ) and did it for months.. on at least 2-3 others every day for making keys. (2-3 times a day on each)
Have 6 twisted sets so far (actually have more twisted sitting around not bought)
have run Cn thousands of times (even before all the power creep it was possible to do in ten mins.. 20 mins , where do you guys get these times..)
have run pom/throne (these are the time suckers and best skipped)
Your calculations in terms of length are just off.
I would probably half them.. so yes, I could've run these around that time frame.. I have approx. 3500 playing hours or something like that total.
I know people with triple what I have.. and who run things triple the amount. if not more.
so i really don't hope something like that will be released anymore, was like 2 or 3 month's off feedback and that is what we got...
I have quit and will never be back except to giveaway my Transcendent Enchantments to some random lowbies. I wouldn't poke the bear if I was you guys though. The job market is pretty rough out there for keyboard warriors.
@rafaelda Always refreshing to hear some otimismo brasileiro.
But... Nada é mais estressante então pesca sem anzol!
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
One of the processes we are trying to streamline internally is aligning our Console and PC features for when Xbox One and PS4 versions catch up to the current module. Because Console has additional steps due to Certification, release dates must be decided in advance (which, of course, can still be delayed at the last minute because it’s game development and if something will go wrong, the other thing you didn’t expect will go wrong). With M10b releasing on Console on 1/17, we needed to include the key changes on that date. In an effort to continue providing our PC players Preview access to new features, we made the decision to put this change on Preview as early as possible given the chaos of December and Holidays. This meant that the earliest date available for preview was last week. We felt that, while one week was a short time, it was still more optimal than no Preview access.
As stated in the key change blog, we understand this update doesn’t address all the concerns and we have been absorbing all your feedback. Because design changes are a constantly evolving part of game development, we felt that stating that the preview would only last a week would create a sense of finality that we are not intending. We will continue to ask for constructive feedback, now with the benefit of larger volume of players interacting with the changes, and having both internal discussions on Key Changes/Chest Rewards and communicating with our players as best as possible.
PWE, thanks for the memories and bitter feelings. Cryptic, thanks for the great improvement in communication.
But I digress. If the original drop rate on the Legendary Rings was 1 in 1000, and they doubled it to 1 in 500, that's still quite low, though honestly, I think the original drop rate was even larger than that, maybe 1 in 10000 or so. But I have on evidence to back that up, so only the devs know the true drop rate. The RNG is a fickle enough beast. They do need to make the drops obtainable by a good portion of the population.
Edit: Bah... it's 2017. Where did the time go. I apologize for my mistaken dates.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
i can't move it not to inventory not to keys tab, even can't move to other cell.
That's a pretty silly question. Once you have everything you want, you continue to run the content to sell the goods to those who can't/don't want to run it.
Oh wait we can't do that because everything is bound. You are right. there is 0 reason to run the content after you get what you want.
That's why I spend all day in zone chat. No reason to do anything else.
Cya in /zone
I don't know if that is sad or funny...
The subtext here is also that you wanted to avoid having consoles have peak available as they start to farm legendary marks. That's reasonable, if disappointing. I assume you're referring to this line at the end of the blog.
My question is this: is it intentional that the changes don't address the underlying reality that all worthwhile loot in this game is based on RNG?
Follow-up: is there any plan for introducing a system to mitigate that in any way (systems like seals, or ring/relic exchanges, many of which have been suggested)?
From the blog, it seems like you might be adding additional (likely account-bound) seasonal rewards to chests. So, the casino might get shinier prizes, but will fundamentally remain a casino.
(a casino in which the only game where players break even is fishing)