They put this up on preview a week ago asking for feedback. Then push it to live without ANY changes. What was the point of the feedback?
I just deleted the preview folder from my PC. I will not "work" for this company any more. Logging into preview to test and give feedback is pointless. You receive nothing for your "work" and the feedback is ignored anyway.
I look forward to the graphic fix causing my screen to go all white when focus is shifted away!!! Even my black desktop background went to a bright grey and I had to kill the game client to get rid of it!
Disapointment, nothing about:.... - all the bosses, they still don´t drop any new cool stuff. - FBI, no reason to run for people who already have relic armor and those who didn´t run it won´t run it either. - droperates (RNG), nobody knows what it really means that the droprate will be better. The tests some players made on youtube were really disapointing. - Heroic encounterss (HE), still got to to grind thousands of HE´s to get your lanolin, permafrostshards... etc. - the huge changes they anounced? I don´t see any. - the greates loot should come from the hardest content, but still it is like: go fishing and open chests from map in a bottle to get cool stuff.
Yea, they want to kill off old players. They put stuff in the chest that only new players want. Hoping that everyone that built up some assets over the years are going to drop out.
With dreams to be a king, first one should be a man.
Well, I think this change makes sense for content up to Demogorgan. You either get VIP, which is sensible, or play the campaigns to get the currency keys. Honestly, if I were a new player, and content ended at Edemo, I would hop on the buy VIP sale bandwagon. I think this is a very good system, as it provides a regular economic sink for the player, up to 2.5k ilvl content, and the free-to-play way to get the keys is not terrible (you work for them, but not at crazy levels-at levels I would call "fair")
The problem is indeed, the "eldergame", content, whose grind is, dare I say it, asinine (sorry, but it is). You guys really need to introduce an "elder content" viable vip system or some other changes, because from a pure FBI/SVA standpoint, yes this does basically just disappoint with very little/limited positives.
So, bottom line for me. I think this is a good system change, but upper-level content is designed around a reward structure that seems punishing almost. Change that reward structure, or implement some other change to make "elder game" more fun.
Honestly, with these changes, I'm more likely to create alts I think, and just say "screw it" to Storm King's Thunder. Truly, that is what I'm thinking right now. I might just make a new character, and decide that I'm content for now with Edemo on a new class because I just am not willing to tire myself out or convert millions of zen/ad to get any rewards from the new content besides exploring the zones.
Love yourself, and focus on the rest of the madness of life later.
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
It's a little premature to roll out the pitchforks.
Whether this change is good or not depends entirely on the new loot tables. I'm not aware that anyone has opened the thousand or two chests on Preview that are needed for a statistically significant sample.
Doom and gloom based on your expectations of what the change is going to be won't help anyone. The update is here. Try it out. See what loot you get. See what loot your party members and friends get. Share feedback based on experience rather than guesswork.
I'm quite sure the developers are open to fact-based discussion about the new system.
My own personal little conspiracy theory is that they pushed this to live on PC so they can get it to consoles before anyone has unlocked SVA to maximize key buying. If they had waited, many of us would have been able to peek our way to relic weapons.
Yea, they want to kill off old players. They put stuff in the chest that only new players want. Hoping that everyone that built up some assets over the years are going to drop out.
There's no profit in encouraging players to drop out.
It's a little premature to roll out the pitchforks.
Whether this change is good or not depends entirely on the new loot tables. I'm not aware that anyone has opened the thousand or two chests on Preview that are needed for a statistically significant sample.
Doom and gloom based on your expectations of what the change is going to be won't help anyone. The update is here. Try it out. See what loot you get. See what loot your party members and friends get. Share feedback based on experience rather than guesswork.
I'm quite sure the developers are open to fact-based discussion about the new system.
The fact that it wasn't tested enough to see the SECRET loot Table is reason enough to "roll ou the pitchforks", or what's the point for having a preview server then ????
they could also lessened the time needed to test by making a option for you to load a room to test the chests and not make us run the entire dungeon in a test server to see the same loot we got before the "changes"
From what i've seen in the preview the changes have the same % that the one made in the +5rings the ones i never got btw...
It's a little premature to roll out the pitchforks.
Whether this change is good or not depends entirely on the new loot tables. I'm not aware that anyone has opened the thousand or two chests on Preview that are needed for a statistically significant sample.
Doom and gloom based on your expectations of what the change is going to be won't help anyone. The update is here. Try it out. See what loot you get. See what loot your party members and friends get. Share feedback based on experience rather than guesswork.
I'm quite sure the developers are open to fact-based discussion about the new system.
Not really. The thing that people wanted was consistently better loot. If we have to open two thousand chests to notice the difference between the old loot tables and the new loot tables it's a failure.
Yea, they want to kill off old players. They put stuff in the chest that only new players want. Hoping that everyone that built up some assets over the years are going to drop out.
There's no profit in encouraging players to drop out.
FFS the blog they were talking about was just them copy+pasting the first post in the loot thread in the preview forums. The way they asked for feedback and released no new builds in the intervening week makes it pretty easy to justify the doom and gloom.
Nevertheless, when older players feel like they're being punished for running new content or changes, it fosters negativity and the perception that older players are not wanted.
The fact that it wasn't tested enough to see the SECRET loot Table is reason enough to "roll ou the pitchforks", or what's the point for having a preview server then ????
they could also lessened the time needed to test by making a option for you to load a room to test the chests and not make us run the entire dungeon in a test server to see the same loot we got before the "changes"
From what i've seen in the preview the changes have the same % that the one made in the +5rings the ones i never got btw...
Loot tables have never been published. If you have many items in the loot table, some of which are very rare drops (whatever that may mean), it takes many opened chests to know what the odds of each item are. Even if the chance to get a +5 ring is 10x greater (and I hope it is... I haven't seen one yet in spite of hundreds of runs), you wouldn't be able to gauge that from a few runs on preview.
Maybe the new loot tables are horrible. If they are, I'll be one of the most vocal critics. I'm just not going to assume they suck based on extremely limited experience.
It's a little premature to roll out the pitchforks.
Whether this change is good or not depends entirely on the new loot tables. I'm not aware that anyone has opened the thousand or two chests on Preview that are needed for a statistically significant sample.
Doom and gloom based on your expectations of what the change is going to be won't help anyone. The update is here. Try it out. See what loot you get. See what loot your party members and friends get. Share feedback based on experience rather than guesswork.
I'm quite sure the developers are open to fact-based discussion about the new system.
Though I do agree with you @tripsofthrymr , at least about premature pitchforks, there is a problem at the heart of this "NEW" system, actually a few if we are serious about it.
The chest that requires a campaign key or dragon key will take years or lots of $'s to reach the sample size needed to see that a change was indeed implemented and somewhat effective. This is one of the reason people are kinda upset by the no peek key change, I think. We will never know if the loot table for things like +5 rings have changed because we have no effective way to see this change...
This is what I mean... I have run a ton of edemo/ndemo, enough to get 5 twisted sets and underdark armor for each class in the game... so at least in the 1000's of runs at edemo/ndemo, with 0, that right 0, +5 underdark rings. So, now we are told that chances have increased 5 times whatever there previous value was. Just doing some quick math and using a 1000 as my number it will take 200 runs at edemo to get a +5 ring, which is 200 days of farming campaign currency or 100 dollars (5 keys 250 zen) just to get a chance at seeing a +5 ring, which by the way will more likely than not be one that is not very useful....
Before, with the peek ability we had the ability to reuse the key and bypass wasting time/money on stuff we simply did not find worth the keys value....
So with this change we get some cool QoL and some interesting updated loot tables.
Regardless of the key change, I still like some of the stuff they did here, good job Cryptic!.
But, and this is a big but... we have no light at the end of the tunnel....everything is locked behind the RNG MONSTER , which means that there are some people who have the possibility of NEVER seeing any of the highly desirable loot drop.
Cryptic should take the time to implement a system in which you will be able to purchase the items you desire with currency found for completing an applicable dungeon. This effectively make every key you use 1 step closer to getting that item no mater if RNG favors you or not. If they are worried about flooding the world with these items they just have to make sure its gated properly and BtoC on pick up.
Why they only use RnG to get at some of this stuff is beyond me.... If I was chasing after something that I desired and Zen keys moved me towards that faster, I would buy them. But, if Zen keys only give me another chance at RnG, I will not buy them...It is simply not an effective use of my time and money to by Zen keys.... not going to do it for RnG
I protest RnG being the only method...
My 2 cents....
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
Yep. A week on preview was far too short. As I understand it, the developers are still working to incorporate preview feedback and there will be an update to address some of that feedback. It would have been better to hold back the change a while longer.
The fact that it wasn't tested enough to see the SECRET loot Table is reason enough to "roll ou the pitchforks", or what's the point for having a preview server then ????
they could also lessened the time needed to test by making a option for you to load a room to test the chests and not make us run the entire dungeon in a test server to see the same loot we got before the "changes"
From what i've seen in the preview the changes have the same % that the one made in the +5rings the ones i never got btw...
Loot tables have never been published. If you have many items in the loot table, some of which are very rare drops (whatever that may mean), it takes many opened chests to know what the odds of each item are. Even if the chance to get a +5 ring is 10x greater (and I hope it is... I haven't seen one yet in spite of hundreds of runs), you wouldn't be able to gauge that from a few runs on preview.
Maybe the new loot tables are horrible. If they are, I'll be one of the most vocal critics. I'm just not going to assume they suck based on extremely limited experience.
Good luck buying a great pack of keys for you to test then !!
I'm NOT buying keys to Test in live server when we do have a preview a server,
regardless if the changes turn out to be good or (more probably I believe), bad, clearly a communication failure has occurred and I can't help but believe that a lot of the raging right now could have been headed off with a little more communication, instead of a roll out of a significant change that very few, if any, of the player base thought would be happening this quickly based on the fact that they put it on preview last week asking for testing.
People feel blindsided and unappreciated because the fast rollout means they had no intention of making any changes before it went live regardless what the various testers had to say or suggest.
I think it is, perhaps, erring on the side of gross understatement to say this was handled very poorly by this company.
Lilia Drakon - PVE Executioner TR She Looked Lvl 18
Yep. A week on preview was far too short. As I understand it, the developers are still working to incorporate preview feedback and there will be an update to address some of that feedback. It would have been better to hold back the change a while longer.
My own personal little conspiracy theory is that they pushed this to live on PC so they can get it to consoles before anyone has unlocked SVA to maximize key buying. If they had waited, many of us would have been able to peek our way to relic weapons.
I think we have a winner...
We'll see how this all goes over. It certainly does seem, at face value, that the changes are designed for newer players (who would benefit from more account bound stuff) but not more established players (who are more interested in getting good value for their keys).
Let's hope they'll follow up with some additional changes to address that, otherwise I wouldn't be surprised at another exodus of established players. Which would be a bummer, the community aspect of this game is the most appealing thing for me.
So much rage.... myself,, I will remain neutral until I run content for a while.. maybe just slightly optimistic, but I'll take some of that new stuff and a chance at stuff that just can't be gotten anymore (crosses fingers for Sgt. Knox companion)
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
I ran underdark 15k times.. FIFTEEN THOUSAND dungeons.. never got the +5 rings I wanted.
You've been playing Underdark for at least 625 days total, just counting dungeons at a minimum of 20 minutes a run? Wow...
Even at 5 minutes a run, that's 52 day straight, with no breaks. Underdark has only been out 70 days. Wow. That is some dedication to the game.
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They are pushing it live because they can push client side tweaks to it whenever. if they feel RNG is getting a little too RNGy then they can up the % rate you get certain loot and likewise do the same thing the opposite way. THey were never going to change the core of how this update was positioned. Best they can do now is in future updates change how keys work or how we can obtain them.
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I just deleted the preview folder from my PC. I will not "work" for this company any more. Logging into preview to test and give feedback is pointless. You receive nothing for your "work" and the feedback is ignored anyway.
- all the bosses, they still don´t drop any new cool stuff.
- FBI, no reason to run for people who already have relic armor and those who didn´t run it won´t run it either.
- droperates (RNG), nobody knows what it really means that the droprate will be better. The tests some players made on youtube were really disapointing.
- Heroic encounterss (HE), still got to to grind thousands of HE´s to get your lanolin, permafrostshards... etc.
- the huge changes they anounced? I don´t see any.
- the greates loot should come from the hardest content, but still it is like: go fishing and open chests from map in a bottle to get cool stuff.
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The problem is indeed, the "eldergame", content, whose grind is, dare I say it, asinine (sorry, but it is). You guys really need to introduce an "elder content" viable vip system or some other changes, because from a pure FBI/SVA standpoint, yes this does basically just disappoint with very little/limited positives.
So, bottom line for me. I think this is a good system change, but upper-level content is designed around a reward structure that seems punishing almost. Change that reward structure, or implement some other change to make "elder game" more fun.
Honestly, with these changes, I'm more likely to create alts I think, and just say "screw it" to Storm King's Thunder. Truly, that is what I'm thinking right now. I might just make a new character, and decide that I'm content for now with Edemo on a new class because I just am not willing to tire myself out or convert millions of zen/ad to get any rewards from the new content besides exploring the zones.
Whether this change is good or not depends entirely on the new loot tables. I'm not aware that anyone has opened the thousand or two chests on Preview that are needed for a statistically significant sample.
Doom and gloom based on your expectations of what the change is going to be won't help anyone. The update is here. Try it out. See what loot you get. See what loot your party members and friends get. Share feedback based on experience rather than guesswork.
I'm quite sure the developers are open to fact-based discussion about the new system.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
they could also lessened the time needed to test by making a option for you to load a room to test the chests and not make us run the entire dungeon in a test server to see the same loot we got before the "changes"
From what i've seen in the preview the changes have the same % that the one made in the +5rings the ones i never got btw...
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
Maybe the new loot tables are horrible. If they are, I'll be one of the most vocal critics. I'm just not going to assume they suck based on extremely limited experience.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
The chest that requires a campaign key or dragon key will take years or lots of $'s to reach the sample size needed to see that a change was indeed implemented and somewhat effective. This is one of the reason people are kinda upset by the no peek key change, I think. We will never know if the loot table for things like +5 rings have changed because we have no effective way to see this change...
This is what I mean... I have run a ton of edemo/ndemo, enough to get 5 twisted sets and underdark armor for each class in the game... so at least in the 1000's of runs at edemo/ndemo, with 0, that right 0, +5 underdark rings. So, now we are told that chances have increased 5 times whatever there previous value was. Just doing some quick math and using a 1000 as my number it will take 200 runs at edemo to get a +5 ring, which is 200 days of farming campaign currency or 100 dollars (5 keys 250 zen) just to get a chance at seeing a +5 ring, which by the way will more likely than not be one that is not very useful....
Before, with the peek ability we had the ability to reuse the key and bypass wasting time/money on stuff we simply did not find worth the keys value....
So with this change we get some cool QoL and some interesting updated loot tables.
Regardless of the key change, I still like some of the stuff they did here, good job Cryptic!.
But, and this is a big but... we have no light at the end of the tunnel....everything is locked behind the RNG MONSTER , which means that there are some people who have the possibility of NEVER seeing any of the highly desirable loot drop.
Cryptic should take the time to implement a system in which you will be able to purchase the items you desire with currency found for completing an applicable dungeon. This effectively make every key you use 1 step closer to getting that item no mater if RNG favors you or not. If they are worried about flooding the world with these items they just have to make sure its gated properly and BtoC on pick up.
Why they only use RnG to get at some of this stuff is beyond me.... If I was chasing after something that I desired and Zen keys moved me towards that faster, I would buy them. But, if Zen keys only give me another chance at RnG, I will not buy them...It is simply not an effective use of my time and money to by Zen keys.... not going to do it for RnG
I protest RnG being the only method...
My 2 cents....
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Even remotely suggesting you need to run content 2k times to get a average rate of say +/- .1% is ludicrous anyways..
this game has a issue of thinking that people should have to run things on average around the loot table of 5k times to get what you want.
I ran underdark 15k times.. FIFTEEN THOUSAND dungeons.. never got the +5 rings I wanted.
Whats the point, feel utterly defeated today.
Its like we tried to get things changed and failed.
We are all losers here today, there is no winners, they didn't Win, because its a massive flawed system now, much worse then before.
We didn't win, because , none of us have the effing time to make keys all the time, and none of us are going to PAY per run.
PAY per run is a ridiculous module and if there is not some sort of relief , this game is more or less going to continue to decline.
Both the devs and the players have lost today.. in terms of communication because we clearly failed to understand each other.
There is no winners today.
I'm NOT buying keys to Test in live server when we do have a preview a server,
Edited: i need to cal down a bit sorry ...
People feel blindsided and unappreciated because the fast rollout means they had no intention of making any changes before it went live regardless what the various testers had to say or suggest.
I think it is, perhaps, erring on the side of gross understatement to say this was handled very poorly by this company.
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We'll see how this all goes over. It certainly does seem, at face value, that the changes are designed for newer players (who would benefit from more account bound stuff) but not more established players (who are more interested in getting good value for their keys).
Let's hope they'll follow up with some additional changes to address that, otherwise I wouldn't be surprised at another exodus of established players. Which would be a bummer, the community aspect of this game is the most appealing thing for me.
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Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!