Haha @lirithiel you are so funny, 40% damage from thorned roots? Only if you're using 3 encounter powers applying rotation. My rotation is ls, cordon and constricting arrow, it provides great damage and great party buff anyone that is using a close range rotation with 3 roting powers or is either stupid or jealous of sharing paingiver. And MY act logs using P.Vorpal(i do have a t.dread but did not test this with it) give me thorned roots as being 11% of total damage,11, not 40. So about pokemon go, you should invist in it and stop trying nerf trapper to make your little combat hr outshine.
0
lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
Haha @lirithiel you are so funny, 40% damage from thorned roots? Only if you're using 3 encounter powers applying rotation. My rotation is ls, cordon and constricting arrow, it provides great damage and great party buff anyone that is using a close range rotation with 3 roting powers or is either stupid or jealous of sharing paingiver. And MY act logs using P.Vorpal(i do have a t.dread but did not test this with it) give me thorned roots as being 11% of total damage,11, not 40. So about pokemon go, you should invist in it and stop trying nerf trapper to make your little combat hr outshine.
Please show me one instance where I requested a nerf to Trappers. UMADBRO? I'm just pointing out glaring issues in the tree. Remind me again why the Lostmauth set was nerfed? Because a source of FREE DAMAGE should not account for such a large portion of one's total damage dealt. And btw if you're not getting the most out of your powers you're gimping yourself - 11% of your total damage? Its a L2P issue nothing else. @gabrieldourden is a good Trapper and he gets around 30-35% from Thorned Roots. See the difference?
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
If you removed every major source of damage from each class, you would have all weak classes. It is the nature of the game that one thing does the majority of the damage. It is called a meta build. Nerf Thorned Roots and all of a sudden you have a class that does not even have one DPS tree. This train ride needs to end. Leave Thorned Roots as is and let players pick up the pieces that are left of the class.
thats the purpose of the class review? you wish for the class only source of damage would come from a feat? even CWs and TRs got their stormspell and shadow opportunity fixed bcus of that... GWF damage comes from atwills / encounters, it would look pretty dumb for the damage to be from deep gash. Now its the chance to make HRs relatable to the module, and until they wont make other encounters/atwills or watever to overcome the damage from thorned roots, these changes are meaningless.
Thank you. At least someone gets it. Until the major issues are dealt with, we will continue to see meaningless changes implemented. The devs are rightly terrified to buff at-wills and encounters across the board for HRs because the rage from the rest of the community will be relentless when they see Trappers doing insane damage due to said buffs. The nerfbat will ensue once more and the whole class will be left to suffer for it. Note: I am not calling for a nerf to Trapper, I'm just pointing out why the class is where it is due to certain glaring aspects that have been left alone for far too long.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
No, this actually is about nerfing Trappers. amenar has not even addressed the issue and you keep it going. It is the main topic of the thread now for no reason.
It´s pretty obvious by now that there´s ppl that understand what some write and some others believe to understand while they have no clue what ppl have tryed to explain here, infact it´s not casual that the word nerf is used all the time from the 2nd category of ppl, which is why we are wasting a considerable amount of time in useless talking, it seems it´s like we talking in two different languages.
Haha @lirithiel you are so funny, 40% damage from thorned roots? Only if you're using 3 encounter powers applying rotation. My rotation is ls, cordon and constricting arrow, it provides great damage and great party buff anyone that is using a close range rotation with 3 roting powers or is either stupid or jealous of sharing paingiver. And MY act logs using P.Vorpal(i do have a t.dread but did not test this with it) give me thorned roots as being 11% of total damage,11, not 40. So about pokemon go, you should invist in it and stop trying nerf trapper to make your little combat hr outshine.
Please show me one instance where I requested a nerf to Trappers. UMADBRO? I'm just pointing out glaring issues in the tree. Remind me again why the Lostmauth set was nerfed? Because a source of FREE DAMAGE should not account for such a large portion of one's total damage dealt. And btw if you're not getting the most out of your powers you're gimping yourself - 11% of your total damage? Its a L2P issue nothing else. @gabrieldourden is a good Trapper and he gets around 30-35% from Thorned Roots. See the difference?
Oh so that means you dont want to see thorned roots damage reduced nice, because reducing it's damage would make rotations like mine weaker. And grabieldourden deals around 30-35% of damage trough roots, good for him, ask him to try the rotation i use in multi target, get the act logs, then repeat the exact same dungeon with the same people using a only roots rotation or 2 rooting powers + planth growth, compare dungeon time between them, after that call it a l2p issue. And minding pvp thorned roots should deal even more damage since trapper got it's control abilities reduced a lot with crushing roots nerf and control powers from hr come majorly from it,so a buff to damage would be more than decent' unless the nerf to thorned roots has piercing damage included and a global trapper damage increase( that even so will decrease the damage in pvp if the hr has enough arm pen to ignre all target armour) i dont want to hear anymore of your nubish coments, my first nwo account has almost 3 years, im not properly the person you need t say learn to play.
Flurry should last 4 seconds up from two and damage should be increased
Activating Flurry should reduce your cooldowns.
Why don't any of you get it!? Buffing Scything Blades and Flurry will NOT make the at-wills competitive. Their base damage is TOOOO LOOOW!! The at-wills are the ones that need the buff, NOT the feat! They need at least doubled from what they are now, AT LEAST DOUBLED. Buffs are MEANINGLESS if the attack that's buffed has unviable base damage. Even a 100% buff from feats will only makes the at-will DPS exactly the same as an unbuffed at-will of another class! The at-wills are the problem, NOT the feats!
No, this actually is about nerfing Trappers. amenar has not even addressed the issue and you keep it going. It is the main topic of the thread now for no reason.
And pointing this out will get your post sent to "Unproductive" unless you have "friends"...
I see alot of posts from people that I sincerely doubt use the HR class, don't know what that's all about?
From looking at this whole mess of a topic, it's clear that it would take 10 @amenar to take all this in properly, and I doubt there are even 10 people working with the technical side of this game.
What could be done, which would be more realistic in terms of man-hours, is to have 2 Paragons for each class, one Defensive orientated with Offensive buffs, and one Offensive with Defensive buffs.
It could be more suitable with Defensive/Defensive & Offensive/Offensive, but testing would sort that out.
Also merging the 3 different skill Paragons into one, that might make it easier for the developer to make the different skills more interesting...
@macjae how many top pvp players( taking apart dc faithfull and trs) have a deflection build? And even so the deflect would cut the control duration in the amount of the deflect severity, so we can assume: Previous stun time - (previous stun time * 0.85) and now: Current stun time, surelly it hasn't decreased by 85% and will be more effective in those situations, but those situations alone, so yeah it was a nerf.
@ghoulz66 i agree at will damage is the damage that needs to be increased, not feats, flurry restrains at wills to a fixed amount of time but we cant make sure flury is up 100% of the time and at wills should still be usefull not boosted by flurry.
I am done with all the rest of this it not going any where. Can we please get the build uploaded to preview for bug testing. and a response from Amenar on whats going on might help with all the HAMSTER going on
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
@ghoulz66 : if needed also base damage on at-wills may have to be improved. But I think most of the stuff has to come from feats so that you can feel a different playstile in each tree. That's why I asked for a longer Flurry. A good Combat ranger should be able (and I mean that it should be given the possibility) to keep Flurry up all time because spamming at-wills is the core of the tree (see the capstone).
@hahagotye : if Thorned roots are doing only 11% of your damage you're probably doing it wrong (I say probably so don't take this badly). In dungeon I usually run Constrictive/Longstrider/Cordon. Roots are roughly 1/3 of my damage, Plant Growth another 1/3, then the rest is Cordon, Wheel of Fire, Owlbear Cub, Seismic, Constrictive, Dazing Shot, Longstrider and Steel Breeze approximately in order (if there are not other buffs like paladin's auras). Cub is going down as my crit is increasing (close to 80% now). The point is that while you are attacking a group of mobs with Plant Growth you should shoot another group with Constrictive so that roots do their job while you and other melee PCs have not engaged those monsters yet. In situations like Throne of the Dwarven Gods this tactic actually shines the most and I get outdps'd only very rarely by some ungodly GWFs (my feeling is that there is still some strange interaction between Orcus' set and GWFs) that double my damage. If you use Constrictive and Plant Growth on the same group of mobs everybody is attacking then roots will go down a lot and your dps too...
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
0
hypergorila2Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 73Arc User
Really disapointed in these change. Archer and combat got some minor buffs, trapper got nerfed... I suspect that overall the average HR will do more damage because of these small buffs making them not underperform so much, on the other hand I'm pretty sure the more experience HR's will have a significant damage loss.
0
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Base damage as an executioner. I did get rid of First Strike.
Now, buffed with stealth and Lurker's Assault. Note that TR can remained stealthed and maintain this DPS for the duration of Lurker's
Base damage from my Righteous DC, NO BUFFS
Now buffed, did not get buff from Righteous Suffering so it would be higher than this. Also can't account for the actual debuffs mobs receive. Note that my Combat HR with an extra 100% crit severity crits with rapid strike for only 7k! My DC with a Fey Touched can crit for 17k.
Now let's recap here. Buffed
And the Combat HR again... Buffed
Combat will fail is this isn't addressed! They need at least a flat 85-100% base damage buff.
If you removed every major source of damage from each class, you would have all weak classes. It is the nature of the game that one thing does the majority of the damage. It is called a meta build. Nerf Thorned Roots and all of a sudden you have a class that does not even have one DPS tree. This train ride needs to end. Leave Thorned Roots as is and let players pick up the pieces that are left of the class.
thats the purpose of the class review? you wish for the class only source of damage would come from a feat? even CWs and TRs got their stormspell and shadow opportunity fixed bcus of that... GWF damage comes from atwills / encounters, it would look pretty dumb for the damage to be from deep gash. Now its the chance to make HRs relatable to the module, and until they wont make other encounters/atwills or watever to overcome the damage from thorned roots, these changes are meaningless.
@metalldjt from what i read there is no time for anymore changes. if you want to ruin what is left of a class do it, just take my email address and contact me when i can play again thanks. skipping another mod is not going to kill me. and this is not directed to you but since you are one of those not willing to nerf healing insignas (healing depression for example) i hope to find in you one of those fighting for exception. we want to conclude this discussion: amenar was nice and responsive but with little time (as always...and always will be), band aids promised to not happen anymore are still happening and so on. This rework is bringing something good which we appreciated but not solving any issue. AND AGAIN there is no time to fix anything. Otherwise a combat HR would do damage comparable to a gwf not a companion. now here again, let me play or get my email address because after 1 year im tired of checking the devtracker every single day.
Post edited by rayrdan on
0
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
@gabrieldourden no matter what flurry will still fall and it's many time in pvp hard to reaply, i would prefeer at will increase than flurry increase, oh and definitively a rework on aimed strike, it's slooooo oooooo oooooo wwww. Yep it's all that slow.
Archery - stay out of Meele major damage from Bow at range
Combat - in your face major damage from Meele attacks
Trapper - dash in and out damage from both Meele and bow.
Archery need to be able to get out of Meele and/or avoid Meele which means hinder opponents from reaching him/her or stay undetected. Major problem here is that encounter/feats don't support this. If you look at certain encounters the combination of marauders escape and ambush would be much more useful for the archer then how they are set up now. If you could select a few combinations of already existing encounter in different combinations a lot of archers problem could be solved.
Same goes for combat, imagine marauders rush/cordon etc..
Trapper I leave for now..
When it comes to feats several good suggestions have been made, ghouls66 among others, important to keep in mind is that if you want to further a part t4-t6 should be used.
Trapper capstone offer 30% to damage with 50 % uptime + some ap gain and control bonus(which I doubt do very much). As trapper can utilize fast cool downs to fire a multitude of encounters during the uptime it would not be to much to ask that archers and combat capstone would increase their damage a bit more.
Combat capstone - 100%(or more need to be tested ofc) add damage on all Meele attacks(alternative 50% on encounters) 150% on at wills , testing will get accurate numbers), 15% deflect (allowing Meele style).
Archery capstone - 100% on at wills 50% on encounters (again testing can get accurate numbers) criticals slows target(s) x% stacks x times(can differ in pvp and pve if needed).
This will make for 3 different playstyles that has at least the foundation to support range, meele and dash in and out.
Some class feats are just to bad to even consider using and should be remade to further support the different builds(feel free to add suggestion).
With so little time left my suggestion is that you avoid rambling about if this is that or this when it comes to critical and focus on how to make each path playable(read compatible) and fun to play.
Mod removed flaming. Stop with the personal attacks.
Huge credit to you all others for taking time to test and come up with suggestions....
I dunno, my Trapper is still bulldozing on the shard as he is on live *shrug*.
I mean, not to say I support nerfs to the Trapper (I generally don't), but it'd take multiple drastic changes to make it not viable, imo. I don't think its healthy to catastrophize, but I do want the shard to be updated soon. HRs are in a precarious state there atm, and if it were to go live as is it wouldn't be grand. It sucks not being able to test many of the significant changes yet
I guess we should also clarify what we mean by boosting 'base' damage, since according to the devs, apparently 'base' means some sort of early/additive layer and not a final dmg boost (ex. 67% base buff to various attacks only translating to a <10% final dmg boost). I consider that a bit odd, since in other games 'base dmg' often translates to a total dmg boost (10% more 'base' = 10% more dmg, before resists are considered).
feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
edited August 2016
So far with these changes I don't see much that amount to real fixes. I see some small buffs to damage, changes to the way trappers can keep their play style, and some help for archery. I see no real help for combat and no real help for our at-wills (apart from Aimed Shot), which continue to need massive buffs to be at all relevant.
We still have no real burst damage in pvp (unless somehow ambush/bear trap now qualifies, which will only really be relevant for trappers/archers who can somehow find room for 10 points in the combat tree). Gushing Wound, now that it targets, might help if the ludicrously long animation were cut in half, but it hasn't been. Also, plenty of potentially useful powers, Marauder's and Forest Ghost in particular, could easily have been changed to make them really effective, but the actual changes are steps sideways instead of forward.
So in sum, we'll have a class that does pretty well in pve and still can't compete in BiS pvp. This would all have gone better if the devs had taken the community's longstanding suggestions as a starting point instead of, apparently, starting from a blank slate and near-total ignorance of the class. I'm grateful for @amenar's efforts but this still leaves HR needing a rework.
Oh, and the target cap nerfs to AoE are pointless and wrongheaded. And deflect severity should still be increased to 75%.
I dunno, my Trapper is still bulldozing on the shard as he is on live *shrug*.
I mean, not to say I support nerfs to the Trapper (I generally don't), but it'd take multiple drastic changes to make it not viable, imo. I don't think its healthy to catastrophize, but I do want the shard to be updated soon. HRs are in a precarious state there atm, and if it were to go live as is it wouldn't be grand. It sucks not being able to test many of the significant changes yet
I guess we should also clarify what we mean by boosting 'base' damage, since according to the devs, apparently 'base' means some sort of early/additive layer and not a final dmg boost (ex. 67% base buff to various attacks only translating to a <10% final dmg boost). I consider that a bit odd, since in other games 'base dmg' often translates to a total dmg boost (10% more 'base' = 10% more dmg, before resists are considered).</p>
thats another thing i cant understand. Math is math but they seems to apply some strange rule. A 67% base damage boost should traslate in AT LEAST a 67% more damage from that single skill which should still be the same regardless the gear of the player since power buff is just a multiplicative factor.
0
lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
edited August 2016
List of proposed changes for Combat:
Powers: At-wills
Aimed Strike: Reapplying the DoT will no longer start the tick timer over. This will prevent clipping the DoT, ensuring the same overall DPS, instead of allowing DPS to be reduced by accidentally clipping the DoT.
Clear the Ground: Activate time of the third strike reduced from 0.6s to 0.5s. Increased damage of second and third strikes of this combo. These changes have increased the overall DPS of the combo by ~35%. This powers activation is no longer cancelled by all other power activations. Damage increased ~50%.
Rapid Strike: Fixed an error in the AP formula, so this combo now generates ~75% more AP. Increased the damage of the first 3 hits of the combo by ~30%, increasing the overall damage of the combo by ~20%.
Split Strike: Activating this power no longer causes the camera FOV to change. Increased activate time from 0.6s to 0.75s. Also increased damage by ~50%. These changes have resulted in an increase in DPS of ~12%. AP gain has been increased ~10%. Damage increased ~40%.
Powers: Encounters
Fox Shift: The speed debuffs and buffs caused by this power no longer have a slight variance to their duration.
Gushing Wound: Fixed an issue where, if the target was able to quickly move away or get out of line of sight immediately after taking the initial hit, the bleed would not apply. The bleed should now be applied if the target takes the intital hit. Initial hit damage increased ~200%. Bleed damage increased ~10%. Now requires a target to activate, which should prevent activating it near a target, but not actually hitting anyone. Ranged decreased to 15', down from 16'.
Plant Growth: Now properly has a target cap of 5. The first hit of damage this power deals is now considered melee damage, instead of a DoT. This means it can now proc Blade Storm, and is affected by various Feats that only affect melee damage.
Thorn Strike: Damage increased ~33%. Damage reduction for striking more than 1 target reduced to 5% per target, down from 7.5%. Recharge time reduced to 8s, down from 14s. Damage increased ~50%. However, damage is now reduced when hitting more than 1 target. Damage when hitting 5 targets is still considerably more than it used to be. Increased target cap to 5, up from 3. Range increased to 15', up from 12'. Total activation time reduced to 0.8s, down from 1s. No longer causes a cast bar to show up for a short time when activating the power. Tooltip now reports the base damage it deals, instead of the damage it would deal when the target is at minimum health.
Marauder's Rush: Can no longer activate some powers while still lunging to the target. Activation time reduced to 0.7s, down from 0.85s. Recharge time reduced to 14s, down from 16s.
Rain of Swords: Damage increased ~25%. No longer causes a hit react on every tick of Bleed damage. Now uses standard Bleed FX instead. Now properly has a target cap of 5. Recharge time reduced to 14s, down from 15s. No longer procs Blade Hurricane/Flurry on every tick of damage, just the initial hit.
Throw Caution: Damage resistance debuff reduced by 10% (now 15% at Rank 4, down from 25%). Now deals damage to a single target in addition to its existing effects. Animation/FX updated to match this new functionality. Recharge time reduced to 12s, down from 20s.
Oak Skin: This power was only healing team-mates for 40% of the intended value. This has been fixed, and the power now heals team-mates for the stated 50% effectiveness of the self-heal. Activation time reduced to 0.6s, down from 0.75s. Added clarification to the tooltip that states that even the base cast is half as effective on team-mates, not just the additional rank-ups. Damage resistance increased to 15%, up from 10%. Amount is still halved on secondary team-mates, meaning they now receive 7.5% DR, up from 5%. Healing increased ~40%. The tooltip now properly reports the total amount this power heals you for over the duration of the buff.
Ambush: Now has less of a reduction when applying bonus damage to an AoE power. It now deals half of the normal bonus, instead of a third. Targets damaged by your Ambush now take additional damage from your Encounter powers for 5 seconds. The Ambush effect is no longer cancelled by movement. The bonus damage caused by this power has had its base damage increased by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% damage increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. The bonus damage caused by this power no longer groups into the same damage floater as the power that triggers it. Damage dealt by the initial hit increased by ~20%. No longer falls off immediately if you have a DoT on someone. Increased damage bonus for Encounter powers to 15%, up from 10%. Recharge time reduced to 15s, down from 18s. Should now always consume the on-next-hit damage when the next time a power deals damage.
Bear Trap: Activation time reduced to 0.67s, down from 0.75s. Now causes the target to bleed for 5 seconds. The total damage of this bleed is equivalent to the initial damage. The Feat, Advanced Stalking, now increases the damage of this bleed. Now slows the target for 5 seconds, in addition to the momentary stun. The Feat, Advanced Stalking, no longer provides a slow effect to this power. Range reduced to 30', down from 80'. No longer has 2 charges that replenish every 15s. Instead, now has a 10s recharge time. No longer locks you in place during activation.
Stag Heart: No longer locks the caster in place while activating.
Powers: Class Features
Blade Storm: Damage dealt by this Power no longer receives double benefit from damage buffs.
Feats:
Fluid Hunter: Now also increases your Crit Chance by the same amount as it increases your Deflect Chance.
Warden's Courage: Now also reduces the damage resistance penalty of Throw Caution by 1/2/3/4/5%.
Advanced Stalking: No longer causes Bear Trap to slow the target. Instead, it increases the damage of the bleed that Bear Trap now applies.
Lucky Blades: When this is triggered, it now also increases your Encounter power damage by 3/6/9/12/15%. Tooltip properly reports a 6s duration, instead of listing 4s.
Piercing Blades: Now deals 10/20/30/40/50% bonus damage as Piercing Damage, up from 8/16/24/32/40%.
Battle Crazed: Now grants bonus melee damage with every stack as well. Duration increased to 6s, up from 3s. Now grants Deflection Chance instead of Life Steal Chance.
Scything Blade: Now causes you to deal an additional 1/2/3/4/5% more melee damage at all times, in addition to the existing bonus damage based on nearby foes.
Blade Hurricane: Now lasts 2 seconds, instead of just 1 At-Will attack. Now triggers off using any melee Encounter power, instead of dealing damage with a melee Encounter power. This means every melee Encounter power should now trigger this feat.
Post edited by lirithiel on
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
BUG: Thorned Roots can crit. Many other powers such as GWF's Deep Gash and also the Lostmauth's Vengeance set bonus had this effect removed so it doesn't really make sense it can crit.
I would say this is not a bug or even a problem. Since they don't proc off a crit but are tied to specific powers, there should be no issue with them being subject to the player's crit chance.
Proc effects that are triggered on a crit don't have an independent crit chance and will always deal critical damage if it is enabled, so the only alternative is to make this damage not able to crit at all.
This info was shared by Gentleman Crush quite some time ago when discussing why Storm Spell's automatic additional crit damage was being removed. It's a product of how the game engine works.
BUG: Thorned Roots can crit. Many other powers such as GWF's Deep Gash and also the Lostmauth's Vengeance set bonus had this effect removed so it doesn't really make sense it can crit.
I would say this is not a bug or even a problem. Since they don't proc off a crit but are tied to specific powers, there should be no issue with them being subject to the player's crit chance.
Proc effects that are triggered on a crit don't have an independent crit chance and will always deal critical damage if it is enabled, so the only alternative is to make this damage not able to crit at all.
This info was shared by Gentleman Crush quite some time ago when discussing why Storm Spell's automatic additional crit damage was being removed. It's a product of how the game engine works.
@beckylunatic and as far as i know HRs do not have anything comparable to something called eye of the storm "uhehe i dont use it" as far as i know hrs dont have anything comparable to chilling presence
im just trying to protect those pve hrs out here, i would probably perform better with no critical hits and a feytouch in pvp
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
I dunno, my Trapper is still bulldozing on the shard as he is on live *shrug*.
I mean, not to say I support nerfs to the Trapper (I generally don't), but it'd take multiple drastic changes to make it not viable, imo. I don't think its healthy to catastrophize, but I do want the shard to be updated soon. HRs are in a precarious state there atm, and if it were to go live as is it wouldn't be grand. It sucks not being able to test many of the significant changes yet
I guess we should also clarify what we mean by boosting 'base' damage, since according to the devs, apparently 'base' means some sort of early/additive layer and not a final dmg boost (ex. 67% base buff to various attacks only translating to a <10% final dmg boost). I consider that a bit odd, since in other games 'base dmg' often translates to a total dmg boost (10% more 'base' = 10% more dmg, before resists are considered).</p>
thats another thing i cant understand. Math is math but they seems to apply some strange rule. A 67% base damage boost should traslate in AT LEAST a 67% more damage from that single skill which should still be the same regardless the gear of the player since power buff is just a multiplicative factor.
^^^^^ I have seen this several times.. how does this make any sense.. isnt a 67% damage boost just apply linearly or do the code it so once it its a certain bonus range on your tooltip it starts going down.. so the stronger you get individually on stats, the weaker the encounter will buff itself?
That seems like pretty complex coding to do. So can someone explain to me how they could actually do this.
Because this make no sense at all. I understand the need to put in damage caps.. (heck ive been calling for some sort of GF damage cap for high end for months, I didnt really want to see a massive rework of that class, just remove some of the craziness of the 18 million hits and stuff)
Soo.... Is there any point of been a hunter Ranger and trapper then or should I just make a new character now??
make a GF, rogue or cleric for pvp. for pve you need a GF, GWF, cleric. HR's do okay but dont fill any role and are second or third tier. even after this "rework" which has turned into a joke. no burst, combat capstone is huge joke.
Comments
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Why don't any of you get it!? Buffing Scything Blades and Flurry will NOT make the at-wills competitive. Their base damage is TOOOO LOOOW!! The at-wills are the ones that need the buff, NOT the feat! They need at least doubled from what they are now, AT LEAST DOUBLED. Buffs are MEANINGLESS if the attack that's buffed has unviable base damage. Even a 100% buff from feats will only makes the at-will DPS exactly the same as an unbuffed at-will of another class! The at-wills are the problem, NOT the feats!
Look at this pathetic base damage!
I see alot of posts from people that I sincerely doubt use the HR class, don't know what that's all about?
From looking at this whole mess of a topic, it's clear that it would take 10 @amenar to take all this in properly, and I doubt there are even 10 people working with the technical side of this game.
What could be done, which would be more realistic in terms of man-hours, is to have 2 Paragons for each class, one Defensive orientated with Offensive buffs, and one Offensive with Defensive buffs.
It could be more suitable with Defensive/Defensive & Offensive/Offensive, but testing would sort that out.
Also merging the 3 different skill Paragons into one, that might make it easier for the developer to make the different skills more interesting...
@ghoulz66 i agree at will damage is the damage that needs to be increased, not feats, flurry restrains at wills to a fixed amount of time but we cant make sure flury is up 100% of the time and at wills should still be usefull not boosted by flurry.
@hahagotye : if Thorned roots are doing only 11% of your damage you're probably doing it wrong (I say probably so don't take this badly). In dungeon I usually run Constrictive/Longstrider/Cordon. Roots are roughly 1/3 of my damage, Plant Growth another 1/3, then the rest is Cordon, Wheel of Fire, Owlbear Cub, Seismic, Constrictive, Dazing Shot, Longstrider and Steel Breeze approximately in order (if there are not other buffs like paladin's auras). Cub is going down as my crit is increasing (close to 80% now).
The point is that while you are attacking a group of mobs with Plant Growth you should shoot another group with Constrictive so that roots do their job while you and other melee PCs have not engaged those monsters yet. In situations like Throne of the Dwarven Gods this tactic actually shines the most and I get outdps'd only very rarely by some ungodly GWFs (my feeling is that there is still some strange interaction between Orcus' set and GWFs) that double my damage. If you use Constrictive and Plant Growth on the same group of mobs everybody is attacking then roots will go down a lot and your dps too...
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Archer and combat got some minor buffs, trapper got nerfed...
I suspect that overall the average HR will do more damage because of these small buffs making them not underperform so much, on the other hand I'm pretty sure the more experience HR's will have a significant damage loss.
Base damage as an executioner. I did get rid of First Strike.
Now, buffed with stealth and Lurker's Assault. Note that TR can remained stealthed and maintain this DPS for the duration of Lurker's
Base damage from my Righteous DC, NO BUFFS
Now buffed, did not get buff from Righteous Suffering so it would be higher than this. Also can't account for the actual debuffs mobs receive. Note that my Combat HR with an extra 100% crit severity crits with rapid strike for only 7k! My DC with a Fey Touched can crit for 17k.
Now let's recap here.
Buffed
And the Combat HR again...
Buffed
Combat will fail is this isn't addressed! They need at least a flat 85-100% base damage buff.
from what i read there is no time for anymore changes.
if you want to ruin what is left of a class do it, just take my email address and contact me when i can play again thanks.
skipping another mod is not going to kill me.
and this is not directed to you but since you are one of those not willing to nerf healing insignas (healing depression for example) i hope to find in you one of those fighting for exception.
we want to conclude this discussion:
amenar was nice and responsive but with little time (as always...and always will be), band aids promised to not happen anymore are still happening and so on.
This rework is bringing something good which we appreciated but not solving any issue.
AND AGAIN there is no time to fix anything. Otherwise a combat HR would do damage comparable to a gwf not a companion.
now here again, let me play or get my email address because after 1 year im tired of checking the devtracker every single day.
Archery - stay out of Meele major damage from Bow at range
Combat - in your face major damage from Meele attacks
Trapper - dash in and out damage from both Meele and bow.
Archery need to be able to get out of Meele and/or avoid Meele which means hinder opponents from reaching him/her or stay undetected.
Major problem here is that encounter/feats don't support this. If you look at certain encounters the combination of marauders escape and ambush would be much more useful for the archer then how they are set up now. If you could select a few combinations of already existing encounter in different combinations a lot of archers problem could be solved.
Same goes for combat, imagine marauders rush/cordon etc..
Trapper I leave for now..
When it comes to feats several good suggestions have been made, ghouls66 among others, important to keep in mind is that if you want to further a part t4-t6 should be used.
Trapper capstone offer 30% to damage with 50 % uptime + some ap gain and control bonus(which I doubt do very much).
As trapper can utilize fast cool downs to fire a multitude of encounters during the uptime it would not be to much to ask that archers and combat capstone would increase their damage a bit more.
Combat capstone - 100%(or more need to be tested ofc) add damage on all Meele attacks(alternative 50% on encounters) 150% on at wills , testing will get accurate numbers), 15% deflect (allowing Meele style).
Archery capstone - 100% on at wills 50% on encounters (again testing can get accurate numbers) criticals slows target(s) x% stacks x times(can differ in pvp and pve if needed).
This will make for 3 different playstyles that has at least the foundation to support range, meele and dash in and out.
Some class feats are just to bad to even consider using and should be remade to further support the different builds(feel free to add suggestion).
With so little time left my suggestion is that you avoid rambling about if this is that or this when it comes to critical and focus on how to make each path playable(read compatible) and fun to play.
Mod removed flaming. Stop with the personal attacks.
Huge credit to you all others for taking time to test and come up with suggestions....
I mean, not to say I support nerfs to the Trapper (I generally don't), but it'd take multiple drastic changes to make it not viable, imo. I don't think its healthy to catastrophize, but I do want the shard to be updated soon. HRs are in a precarious state there atm, and if it were to go live as is it wouldn't be grand. It sucks not being able to test many of the significant changes yet
I guess we should also clarify what we mean by boosting 'base' damage, since according to the devs, apparently 'base' means some sort of early/additive layer and not a final dmg boost (ex. 67% base buff to various attacks only translating to a <10% final dmg boost). I consider that a bit odd, since in other games 'base dmg' often translates to a total dmg boost (10% more 'base' = 10% more dmg, before resists are considered).
<CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
- Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
We still have no real burst damage in pvp (unless somehow ambush/bear trap now qualifies, which will only really be relevant for trappers/archers who can somehow find room for 10 points in the combat tree). Gushing Wound, now that it targets, might help if the ludicrously long animation were cut in half, but it hasn't been. Also, plenty of potentially useful powers, Marauder's and Forest Ghost in particular, could easily have been changed to make them really effective, but the actual changes are steps sideways instead of forward.
So in sum, we'll have a class that does pretty well in pve and still can't compete in BiS pvp. This would all have gone better if the devs had taken the community's longstanding suggestions as a starting point instead of, apparently, starting from a blank slate and near-total ignorance of the class. I'm grateful for @amenar's efforts but this still leaves HR needing a rework.
Oh, and the target cap nerfs to AoE are pointless and wrongheaded.
And deflect severity should still be increased to 75%.
Powers: At-wills
Aimed Strike: Reapplying the DoT will no longer start the tick timer over. This will prevent clipping the DoT, ensuring the same overall DPS, instead of allowing DPS to be reduced by accidentally clipping the DoT.
Clear the Ground: Activate time of the third strike reduced from 0.6s to 0.5s. Increased damage of second and third strikes of this combo. These changes have increased the overall DPS of the combo by ~35%. This powers activation is no longer cancelled by all other power activations. Damage increased ~50%.
Rapid Strike: Fixed an error in the AP formula, so this combo now generates ~75% more AP. Increased the damage of the first 3 hits of the combo by ~30%, increasing the overall damage of the combo by ~20%.
Split Strike: Activating this power no longer causes the camera FOV to change. Increased activate time from 0.6s to 0.75s. Also increased damage by ~50%. These changes have resulted in an increase in DPS of ~12%. AP gain has been increased ~10%. Damage increased ~40%.
Powers: Encounters
Fox Shift: The speed debuffs and buffs caused by this power no longer have a slight variance to their duration.
Gushing Wound: Fixed an issue where, if the target was able to quickly move away or get out of line of sight immediately after taking the initial hit, the bleed would not apply. The bleed should now be applied if the target takes the intital hit. Initial hit damage increased ~200%. Bleed damage increased ~10%. Now requires a target to activate, which should prevent activating it near a target, but not actually hitting anyone. Ranged decreased to 15', down from 16'.
Plant Growth: Now properly has a target cap of 5. The first hit of damage this power deals is now considered melee damage, instead of a DoT. This means it can now proc Blade Storm, and is affected by various Feats that only affect melee damage.
Thorn Strike: Damage increased ~33%. Damage reduction for striking more than 1 target reduced to 5% per target, down from 7.5%. Recharge time reduced to 8s, down from 14s. Damage increased ~50%. However, damage is now reduced when hitting more than 1 target. Damage when hitting 5 targets is still considerably more than it used to be. Increased target cap to 5, up from 3. Range increased to 15', up from 12'. Total activation time reduced to 0.8s, down from 1s. No longer causes a cast bar to show up for a short time when activating the power. Tooltip now reports the base damage it deals, instead of the damage it would deal when the target is at minimum health.
Marauder's Rush: Can no longer activate some powers while still lunging to the target. Activation time reduced to 0.7s, down from 0.85s. Recharge time reduced to 14s, down from 16s.
Rain of Swords: Damage increased ~25%. No longer causes a hit react on every tick of Bleed damage. Now uses standard Bleed FX instead. Now properly has a target cap of 5. Recharge time reduced to 14s, down from 15s. No longer procs Blade Hurricane/Flurry on every tick of damage, just the initial hit.
Throw Caution: Damage resistance debuff reduced by 10% (now 15% at Rank 4, down from 25%). Now deals damage to a single target in addition to its existing effects. Animation/FX updated to match this new functionality. Recharge time reduced to 12s, down from 20s.
Oak Skin: This power was only healing team-mates for 40% of the intended value. This has been fixed, and the power now heals team-mates for the stated 50% effectiveness of the self-heal. Activation time reduced to 0.6s, down from 0.75s. Added clarification to the tooltip that states that even the base cast is half as effective on team-mates, not just the additional rank-ups. Damage resistance increased to 15%, up from 10%. Amount is still halved on secondary team-mates, meaning they now receive 7.5% DR, up from 5%. Healing increased ~40%. The tooltip now properly reports the total amount this power heals you for over the duration of the buff.
Ambush: Now has less of a reduction when applying bonus damage to an AoE power. It now deals half of the normal bonus, instead of a third. Targets damaged by your Ambush now take additional damage from your Encounter powers for 5 seconds. The Ambush effect is no longer cancelled by movement. The bonus damage caused by this power has had its base damage increased by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% damage increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. The bonus damage caused by this power no longer groups into the same damage floater as the power that triggers it. Damage dealt by the initial hit increased by ~20%. No longer falls off immediately if you have a DoT on someone. Increased damage bonus for Encounter powers to 15%, up from 10%. Recharge time reduced to 15s, down from 18s. Should now always consume the on-next-hit damage when the next time a power deals damage.
Bear Trap: Activation time reduced to 0.67s, down from 0.75s. Now causes the target to bleed for 5 seconds. The total damage of this bleed is equivalent to the initial damage. The Feat, Advanced Stalking, now increases the damage of this bleed. Now slows the target for 5 seconds, in addition to the momentary stun. The Feat, Advanced Stalking, no longer provides a slow effect to this power. Range reduced to 30', down from 80'. No longer has 2 charges that replenish every 15s. Instead, now has a 10s recharge time. No longer locks you in place during activation.
Stag Heart: No longer locks the caster in place while activating.
Powers: Class Features
Blade Storm: Damage dealt by this Power no longer receives double benefit from damage buffs.
Feats:
Fluid Hunter: Now also increases your Crit Chance by the same amount as it increases your Deflect Chance.
Warden's Courage: Now also reduces the damage resistance penalty of Throw Caution by 1/2/3/4/5%.
Advanced Stalking: No longer causes Bear Trap to slow the target. Instead, it increases the damage of the bleed that Bear Trap now applies.
Lucky Blades: When this is triggered, it now also increases your Encounter power damage by 3/6/9/12/15%. Tooltip properly reports a 6s duration, instead of listing 4s.
Piercing Blades: Now deals 10/20/30/40/50% bonus damage as Piercing Damage, up from 8/16/24/32/40%.
Battle Crazed: Now grants bonus melee damage with every stack as well. Duration increased to 6s, up from 3s. Now grants Deflection Chance instead of Life Steal Chance.
Scything Blade: Now causes you to deal an additional 1/2/3/4/5% more melee damage at all times, in addition to the existing bonus damage based on nearby foes.
Blade Hurricane: Now lasts 2 seconds, instead of just 1 At-Will attack. Now triggers off using any melee Encounter power, instead of dealing damage with a melee Encounter power. This means every melee Encounter power should now trigger this feat.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
I would say this is not a bug or even a problem. Since they don't proc off a crit but are tied to specific powers, there should be no issue with them being subject to the player's crit chance.
Proc effects that are triggered on a crit don't have an independent crit chance and will always deal critical damage if it is enabled, so the only alternative is to make this damage not able to crit at all.
This info was shared by Gentleman Crush quite some time ago when discussing why Storm Spell's automatic additional crit damage was being removed. It's a product of how the game engine works.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
"uhehe i dont use it"
as far as i know hrs dont have anything comparable to chilling presence
im just trying to protect those pve hrs out here, i would probably perform better with no critical hits and a feytouch in pvp
I have seen this several times.. how does this make any sense.. isnt a 67% damage boost just apply linearly or do the code it so once it its a certain bonus range on your tooltip it starts going down.. so the stronger you get individually on stats, the weaker the encounter will buff itself?
That seems like pretty complex coding to do. So can someone explain to me how they could actually do this.
Because this make no sense at all. I understand the need to put in damage caps.. (heck ive been calling for some sort of GF damage cap for high end for months, I didnt really want to see a massive rework of that class, just remove some of the craziness of the 18 million hits and stuff)