silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
People are entitled to give feedback, whether its postive or negative, I always wonder why the argument of.. if you dont like it, go away seems to be a trump card for some of you.
I didnt like leadership changes and I posted.. oh 300 threads about costing concerns.. and to date.. ALMOST every concern feedback I listed has been changed or altered.. Because it was the right thing to do.. they were TOO slow with it, and in doing so lost thousands of players.
So .. I shouldve NOT giving my NEGATIVE feedback and just say.. oh honky donkey.. whatever, I ll just move on?
OR I should give my negative feedback and tell them they are full of garbage and get over themselves and give US stuff we actual want?
Like many, Ive played for awhile.. I want something more then leveling dungeons.. I also believe the "false" type of "spin" is a little decieving at best.. at worst they clearly do not UNDERSTAND at all what player feedback has pointed to.
All I can do is give my feedback.. if that makes a few of you sore, because its a little negative in tone.. but it generates the results the MAJORITY of players actual want.. I could care less about stepping on some toes in between.
They have failed our community , the gamers and most of all the TRADITION of MMO's, there is a history to this stuff and they clearly are making it WORSE not better. Tell me today.. right now, that neverwinter has added to MMO's in general? You cant.. I know you cant, because Ive played most of the major ones.
Eventually, yes if nothing changes even I will leave.. but until then.. I will give my feedback and I believe I actual represent the majority most of the time.. maybe not IN how I express it, but IN the actual request for change of process.
Its nothing self poisining about it.. the game isnt doing whats right, they are doing whats clearly not percieved to be acceptable. If we DONT give feedback how can that change?
People are entitled to give feedback, whether its postive or negative, I always wonder why the argument of.. if you dont like it, go away seems to be a trump card for some of you.
I didnt like leadership changes and I posted.. oh 300 threads about costing concerns.. and to date.. ALMOST every concern feedback I listed has been changed or altered.. Because it was the right thing to do.. they were TOO slow with it, and in doing so lost thousands of players.
So .. I shouldve NOT giving my NEGATIVE feedback and just say.. oh honky donkey.. whatever, I ll just move on?
OR I should give my negative feedback and tell them they are full of garbage and get over themselves and give US stuff we actual want?
Like many, Ive played for awhile.. I want something more then leveling dungeons.. I also believe the "false" type of "spin" is a little decieving at best.. at worst they clearly do not UNDERSTAND at all what player feedback has pointed to.
All I can do is give my feedback.. if that makes a few of you sore, because its a little negative in tone.. but it generates the results the MAJORITY of players actual want.. I could care less about stepping on some toes in between.
They have failed our community , the gamers and most of all the TRADITION of MMO's, there is a history to this stuff and they clearly are making it WORSE not better. Tell me today.. right now, that neverwinter has added to MMO's in general? You cant.. I know you cant, because Ive played most of the major ones.
Eventually, yes if nothing changes even I will leave.. but until then.. I will give my feedback and I believe I actual represent the majority most of the time.. maybe not IN how I express it, but IN the actual request for change of process.
Its nothing self poisining about it.. the game isnt doing whats right, they are doing whats clearly not percieved to be acceptable. If we DONT give feedback how can that change?
I agree with you, but just one small correction. You represent the majority of the players, who are to stubborn or to invested, to move on. Looking at my FL, guilds and talking to friends, te real majority stopped playing.
When they introduced the LS changes I wrote something like, 'adjust the prices ASAP and dont wonder, if there is no one arround in 1/2 a year, to pad your back, if you dont react quickly'. I hate to be right.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
edited February 2016
Last April they unleashed EE, a very painful mod for pretty much everyone. Huge exodus. About six months later, Leadership is stripped of AD. Another exodus. Now, about six months later, dungeons are scrapped permanently. Permanently. What do you think will happen?
It's become a pattern.
It's pretty hard to believe they can't re-tune a dungeon once a mod, or once a quarter, and put it back out. That would have us with 3 more re-tooled EPIC dungeons already.
And the new stuff @asterdahl says they are doing instead, well, doesn't hold a candle to the stuff they took away.
People are entitled to give feedback, whether its postive or negative, I always wonder why the argument of.. if you dont like it, go away seems to be a trump card for some of you.
I didnt like leadership changes and I posted.. oh 300 threads about costing concerns.. and to date.. ALMOST every concern feedback I listed has been changed or altered.. Because it was the right thing to do.. they were TOO slow with it, and in doing so lost thousands of players.
So .. I shouldve NOT giving my NEGATIVE feedback and just say.. oh honky donkey.. whatever, I ll just move on?
OR I should give my negative feedback and tell them they are full of garbage and get over themselves and give US stuff we actual want?
Like many, Ive played for awhile.. I want something more then leveling dungeons.. I also believe the "false" type of "spin" is a little decieving at best.. at worst they clearly do not UNDERSTAND at all what player feedback has pointed to.
All I can do is give my feedback.. if that makes a few of you sore, because its a little negative in tone.. but it generates the results the MAJORITY of players actual want.. I could care less about stepping on some toes in between.
They have failed our community , the gamers and most of all the TRADITION of MMO's, there is a history to this stuff and they clearly are making it WORSE not better. Tell me today.. right now, that neverwinter has added to MMO's in general? You cant.. I know you cant, because Ive played most of the major ones.
Eventually, yes if nothing changes even I will leave.. but until then.. I will give my feedback and I believe I actual represent the majority most of the time.. maybe not IN how I express it, but IN the actual request for change of process.
Its nothing self poisining about it.. the game isnt doing whats right, they are doing whats clearly not percieved to be acceptable. If we DONT give feedback how can that change?
I agree with you, but just one small correction. You represent the majority of the players, who are to stubborn or to invested, to move on. Looking at my FL, guilds and talking to friends, te real majority stopped playing.
When they introduced the LS changes I wrote something like, 'adjust the prices ASAP and dont wonder, if there is no one arround in 1/2 a year, to pad your back, if you dont react quickly'. I hate to be right.
The abhorrent handling of leadership right on the heals of the disaster of Mod6 was why I was on my way out. The ignoring of most of our feedback during the testing of Mod7 was why I left. Mod 8 was why I didn't come back. Mod 9 is why I think this game is no longer a major concern for PWE as it obviously is on a shoestring budget with a tiny team to keep the lights on and the new guys buying stuff, but everyone else who stays simply has yet to find their new home. Most of my FL had already vacated by the time I left and it was hard to say goodbye to the rest, but as FC stated it was the healthy thing to do. I just cant support a game that no longer supports or listens to it's community.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
People are entitled to give feedback, whether its postive or negative, I always wonder why the argument of.. if you dont like it, go away seems to be a trump card for some of you.
I didnt like leadership changes and I posted.. oh 300 threads about costing concerns.. and to date.. ALMOST every concern feedback I listed has been changed or altered.. Because it was the right thing to do.. they were TOO slow with it, and in doing so lost thousands of players.
So .. I shouldve NOT giving my NEGATIVE feedback and just say.. oh honky donkey.. whatever, I ll just move on?
OR I should give my negative feedback and tell them they are full of garbage and get over themselves and give US stuff we actual want?
Give feedback for sure. But if you leave the game..then leave. Do not hang around the forums spreading dissent because you feel like a spurned lover who left a bad relationship. It's just a freaking game.
I get annoyed when the feedback is not feedback, it's just bitching and moaning about whatever these ppl can grasp on to HAMSTER and moan about. There are several ppl who don't even play the game around here but post a lot of irrelevant fecal matter they have gleaned from other posts.
People are entitled to give feedback, whether its postive or negative, I always wonder why the argument of.. if you dont like it, go away seems to be a trump card for some of you.
I didnt like leadership changes and I posted.. oh 300 threads about costing concerns.. and to date.. ALMOST every concern feedback I listed has been changed or altered.. Because it was the right thing to do.. they were TOO slow with it, and in doing so lost thousands of players.
So .. I shouldve NOT giving my NEGATIVE feedback and just say.. oh honky donkey.. whatever, I ll just move on?
OR I should give my negative feedback and tell them they are full of garbage and get over themselves and give US stuff we actual want?
Give feedback for sure. But if you leave the game..then leave. Do not hang around the forums spreading dissent because you feel like a spurned lover who left a bad relationship. It's just a freaking game.
I get annoyed when the feedback is not feedback, it's just bitching and moaning about whatever these ppl can grasp on to HAMSTER and moan about. There are several ppl who don't even play the game around here but post a lot of irrelevant fecal matter they have gleaned from other posts.
Poor guy, must be hard living in this world of negativity and feeling you must champion all the things you hold sacred. Might be best to take your own advice and just move on, leave these threads to the folks who have relevant feedback to give instead of raging at "the dissenters" for having opinions different from yours.
I actually have the same opinion as most of the ppl in this thread.
it is sketchy to spin doctor a presentation of things to come. It is however, not illegal.
You should move on to your next relationship Darth, NW is not for you, quit hanging on the front porch waiting for her to take you back, not happening, you will never be happy with what she offers.
I actually have the same opinion as most of the ppl in this thread.
it is sketchy to spin doctor a presentation of things to come. It is however, not illegal.
You should move on to your next relationship Darth, NW is not for you, quit hanging on the front porch waiting for her to take you back, not happening, you will never be happy with what she offers.
Thank you Dr. Oz for your insightful relationship advice.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
This is correct, Caverns of Karrundax, Frozen Heart, Cloak Tower and the Lair of the Pirate King (Returning as "Vault of the Pirate King") will only be available as 3 man dungeons for now. That being said, those dungeons, along with all other dungeons will be getting an significant EXP bonus that is granted upon completion. Making them excellent ways to level new characters or earn power points. In addition we're overhauling how seals work before endgame, unifying and simplifying them and adding more useful repeatable purchases to make with those seals.
Castle Never and the Maze Engine campaign are the pieces of content that we are targeting at endgame players this module, with the former being a new tier 2 dungeon, on the same difficulty level of the Epic Dungeon version of Cragmire and Temple of the Spider, albeit with new challenges and mechanics to overcome, and some new rewards to obtain.
Creating an Epic Dungeon version of an existing dungeon is certainly a somewhat easier task from an environment art perspective than making an entirely new dungeon, but there is still a lot of design work, as well as effects, animation, character art and testing that go into remaking a dungeon into a new endgame experience. Naturally on any given project, there are only so many resources, so if we spend time going back to re-master an old dungeon, that's time that can't be spent making new things.
While there's certainly a possibility that some of these dungeons might receive an epic dungeon treatment at some point, keep in mind that we'll be continuing to build new things as well.
EPIC FAIL.
I am not clear why the dungeons need such a "treatment". Simply increase mob hp and arpen, modify the loot, and slide them back in. Just amazing that we get THIS after 11 months of drivel.
Because slapping on more hitpoints and stacking arp on mobs would be a much better option eh?
Yes actually, that's exactly what I'd like to see.
And what pray tell happened when they released eToS, eCC and eGWD when they released them with more hit points on mobs and arp stacking bug?
Yes as a GF I remember that very well. If past history serves they will most likely nerf to OP like they did the GF when everyone said they was to hard to kill and then turn up the mobs they just got done nerfing and we can go back to one shot died mod lol.
For what it is worth - the game needs to do something about power curve as well as introducing new content. I'm disappointed there isn't an increase like there was with eDemo. However, item level doesn't properly reflect power given the huge importance of guild boons. We should probably go back to Gear Score at this rate ...
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
Returning the levelling dungeons is probably easier than repairing the holes still left in the levelling modules. Path of least resistance. This finishes papering over the the cataclysmic damage done by EE.
Actually skipping repair of the epic dungeons is the path of least resistance on the endgame side.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
Returning the levelling dungeons is probably easier than repairing the holes still left in the levelling modules. Path of least resistance. This finishes papering over the the cataclysmic damage done by EE.
Actually skipping repair of the epic dungeons is the path of least resistance on the endgame side.
If all the returning dungeons were aimed at players between lvl 60-70 I may be able to buy that but they aren't. The Maze Engine campaign is there to smooth the path to 70 not the dungeons.
This move makes absolutely no sense, just like everything this company has done since Icewind Dale.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Still stupid...who remember what terra said in live stream about upcoming dungoens? Does anyone heared something about "Yes...but only the old ones coming back"????
I've barely been logging in since before the launch of Underdark, and Underdark itself gave me basically no reason to log in; grind HEs and grind skirmishes where my character is basically irrelevant (OP Tank) in the hope of getting a reward; no thanks.
The announced return of dungeons gave me hope that there might be some interest in playing content that I could at least enjoy again, then the bombshell of no Epic dungeons except neo-CN hit and I was disappointed to say the least.
When EE was being tested I said that the story nodes for the removed levelling dungeons should be removed, this remains entirely true. Yes there is a need for a level 60-70 dungeon, but frankly the T1 dungeons could be opened to that level range and the T1 drops adjusted to scale for them (like the Dragon Bone/Mullharond weapons).
The main thing we need is t3 and t4 dungeons. The top end of the game is empty of challenge, except for racing the clock to see if you can complete the content in under 15 minutes (or getting a team of 10 together for Demo). I'm not even 3k IL and I consider a 20 minute T2 run normal and far too easy, I hate to think what it looks like with a 3K or 4K plus party. We need dungeons that people are afraid to even open the door to without a full set of T2 gear and all their campaigns finished. We need dungeons where an 80-90k HP character gets killed by mobs, and 100k plus HP characters are nervous and cautious. These have a chance of being interesting outside of beating the clock.
We need dungeons where the spawns are not completely predictable, where they move (spawn point) and their content changes, so that each run of the dungeon has an opportunity to provide a different experience and create a different story in the player's heads.
We need dungeons where people need to think to beat them.
What we don't need is more levelling dungeons (outside level 60-70).
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I've barely been logging in since before the launch of Underdark, and Underdark itself gave me basically no reason to log in; grind HEs and grind skirmishes where my character is basically irrelevant (OP Tank) in the hope of getting a reward; no thanks.
The announced return of dungeons gave me hope that there might be some interest in playing content that I could at least enjoy again, then the bombshell of no Epic dungeons except neo-CN hit and I was disappointed to say the least.
When EE was being tested I said that the story nodes for the removed levelling dungeons should be removed, this remains entirely true. Yes there is a need for a level 60-70 dungeon, but frankly the T1 dungeons could be opened to that level range and the T1 drops adjusted to scale for them (like the Dragon Bone/Mullharond weapons).
The main thing we need is t3 and t4 dungeons. The top end of the game is empty of challenge, except for racing the clock to see if you can complete the content in under 15 minutes (or getting a team of 10 together for Demo). I'm not even 3k IL and I consider a 20 minute T2 run normal and far too easy, I hate to think what it looks like with a 3K or 4K plus party. We need dungeons that people are afraid to even open the door to without a full set of T2 gear and all their campaigns finished. We need dungeons where an 80-90k HP character gets killed by mobs, and 100k plus HP characters are nervous and cautious. These have a chance of being interesting outside of beating the clock.
We need dungeons where the spawns are not completely predictable, where they move (spawn point) and their content changes, so that each run of the dungeon has an opportunity to provide a different experience and create a different story in the player's heads.
We need dungeons where people need to think to beat them.
What we don't need is more levelling dungeons (outside level 60-70).
What you are suggesting sounds way too much like dungeons and dragons
All I can say is I'm glad I found out now instead of coming back after quitting and working on my gear just to find more leveling content. Again you ignore your player base, showing us exactly why you don't deserve our money.
You had one job Cryptic.
next stop is zero job.
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checkmatein3Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 525Arc User
edited February 2016
As a player since Open Beta May 2013, I can say that bringing back the old dungeons by itself is not going to appease the current player base. Yes, I want epic dungeons and more end-game content, just like everyone else. But, the reason the old dungeons are so beloved (apart from the lore) is the memory of first release and mod 1 when they were difficult in relation to character classes, when the story lines matched the content, when the rewards were awesome, when even the progression through the dungeons from levelling to T1 to T2 generally meant preparing you for the next level up.
Mod 9 is bringing back dungeons removed that would apparently only benefit those who are levelling. Actually, with a little thought, the player base may cool some of the criticism here. There is one benefit to levelling dungeons for end-game players, and that is a wider choice to put low geared alts through dungeons for easy AD. But, that is it.
Adding epic dungeons (whether eCN by itself) or with all the epic dungeons back do give variety in end-game. But, if the reward system is the same, an epic drop that is so far below in usefulness that it will only be donated to the guild coffer for surplus or salvaged, then epic dungeons in-and-of-themselves will not solve the disjointed milieu of the end-game. And herein lies the problem. With the change in the refining system, the addition of artifacts, artifact gear, and more, the set bonuses that used to be on armors won from dungeons are now from artifact-artigear combinations, all designed to open your wallets and spend more money. Giving drops for armor sets that were spread out across 4 dungeons that could be sold at high AD prices in the market did nothing to help Cryptic meet its financial obligations. So, these were replaced by the ever-necessary refining points. Every advancement is tied to something necessary in a lockbox, tar bar market, or the bazaar.
So, how can Cryptic balance the need to make money with the desire of the player base to have variety and success without repetition? I believe a balance can be found.
First, you need to return the classic dungeons, scaled to level 70, for epic runs, as soon as possible. The playerbase is telling you that variety is necessary, but so is tradition and nostalgia. We don't even need changes in the old dungeons. Just bring them back. I would love to show guild members what epic Dread Vault was like.
Second, you need to simplify the reward system for refine points. Have one levelling currency. Have one type of status (never bound). The need for bags is less important than the need for simplicity.
Third, you need to add rewards at the end of the dungeon that make the whole dungeon worthwhile. Having an epic drop worth less than what I currently have for 3-5k AD on salvage will not make a dungeon desirable or fun.
Fourth, you need to balance the difficulty of the dungeons to the types of players who will be in it. This is one of the biggest complaints from the playerbase. Dungeons are too hard, until players become BiS. Then this playerbase complains, and you make dungeons harder. Then, the rest of the playerbase complains that dungeons are too hard, and then you nerf dungeons. And then everyone does a dungeon and its too easy. And then power creep makes it way too easy. And then you increase it again, and the cycle goes on an on. The solution is to make every dungeon scaleable by difficult. For example, Cloak Tower can have 6 settings: the under 70 3-man, a T1 run, a T2 run, a T3 run, a T4 run, and the impossible T5. Let the party decide which. Scale difficulty and rewards based on what the team runs. For a T5, make it geared towards those who would need BiS gear and enchants, maxed mounts, a mixed party, a top stronghold (4 maxed boon structures). Make it so hard that every BiS person think it impossible. Make the permabubble OP melt under attacks. The party wiped 99% of the time. Make it based on skill at playing the classes, not the gear. Can't do it? Go run a lesser dungeon then for lesser rewards and dream of the time when you can do it. And make completing it special.
Fifth, give us something to do in strongholds other than grind to feed the coffer. The Siege is too long and not interesting enough. How about a guild ranked battle? This is not PvP. This is a way to earn prestige on the server for your guild with special benefits, like maybe reduced costs for the wondrous bazaar... Have a once per week time when everyone in the guild competes to enter all content on the server to earn points towards the ranking of the guild. And I mean ALL content. Thus, those at level 15 entering a skirmish earn the same points as those at level 70 killing Demogorgon. In fact, make it so that points are capped based on who donates, which means guilds will spread out there participation to those who are not BiS 70s. Add all the points up. Rank the guilds based on participation in this 1 hour time frame. Then give rewards in the stronghold for that guild for that week. For example, top 20 guilds get a special salvager in the guild. This salvager adds 10% AD to all salvages. Top 10 guilds get extra XP of 25% for the week. Top 5 guilds get double refine points for the week. Top guild gets title, additional stat bonus for the week, and additional 25% off all purchases in zen, tar bar, and bazaar (added on top of whatever ViP or coupon). GRB functions like a 'RAID' but is against a clock and all the players in other guilds. Have the GRB generate Guild based Prestige Points, which can be used to purchase things for the guild, like unlock content (housing), or maybe utilities (like a special trader in the guild house for vouchers and fangs), or decorations (like personalization of guild fashion, stronghold, colors, etc...), or maybe even a maybe even a zoning trader, who can convert a zone on the stronghold map into another plot type, like from a support structure to a boon structure, with prestige points adjusted based on what is converted, and how many (like support structure to a boon plot...500k Prestige points, etc, 2nd boon plot....1Mil Prestige points), until you have all the boon structure plots.
Sixth, don't repackage older content with newer content so that we think its new. It is not wise in a marketing strategy to think that new and improved on the label with a couple added 'fortified vitamins' will make us like it. The old playerbase of Neverwinter likes the tradition, the lore, and new content. New players do not see how the old content flowed in one large story, culminating in mod 2s, the dread ring. As the game is designed with hubs of lore (and maps), develop your strategy based on these hubs. For example, IWD has its own map, but nothing else developed. You have access to lore there, but do nothing with it. You have Mantol Derith, which could be its own hub of content. Instead, you insert Demonic HEs everywhere where they do not belong. We don't mind the hubs. Its ok. We know Neverwinter is not a sandbox open world game. Don't try to make it one by inserting lore in where it doesn't belong. So many possible hubs of exploration, and instead you give us muesli in every zone. Keep the lore separate. Keep the hubs separate.
Seventh, combine master craft professions with foundry content. Instead of grinding out nodes in meaningless zones where bots can run all day. Partner with some long time foundry authors to create 'lore' based foundries that might offer rewards for master craft upon completion. Call these the Master craft foundries. You can keep adding to them. Then, make it a reward for being a Master Craft foundry author. Have a submission contest, test it. The more foundries, the more one can get the master craft rewards. And foundry authors get the bonuses of having people run their content.
Be inventive and help us like the game...no love the game again!
lonewolfmk1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 137Arc User
edited February 2016
I agree to 100%. If Cryptic follows the above given advice and makes the miracle happen of killing the lags, we again will have a fun and playable game for everyone involved.
And if you really want to make everyone a happy biscuit, than scrap the current refining system alltogether and add an experienced based system instead, where you, like in Path of Exile for example, level your gear by gathering exp. So in other words, you get rewarded for playing the game in any form you want.
You guys are expecting way too much from a very small team running a game that has been left behind by others that have come to market. Blade and Soul just touted 2 million players since it's NA release a couple weeks back. NWO is lucky to have a few thousand at this point. They blew it in their attempts to monetize while cutting back on production costs. BnS is making money hand over fist because they don't patronize the player and make you feel forced into paying money to advance. People are throwing money at these guys because you feel good about what they are doing and want to support them.
Almost every single player there is "premium", not because all the best stuff is paywalled, but because it is reasonably priced for the benefits you receive while giving nothing that bestows an unfair advantage and it gives a instantly recognizable way for other players to see you are supporting the game. PVP? Gear isn't even involved and totally on the level for all players (except the really sweet OWPVP) so it's only about skill and teamwork, like I begged them to do here. I really wish that Cryptic had listened to us because this could have happened here to NWO. Instead it bleeds players to games like BnS. When Black Desert comes out in a couple months and Mod 9 comes out here, I'm sorry but even the lure of D&D won't keep players wasting time on this nonsense.
I felt bad for the devs for a time as I know that to some extent their hands are tied. But the amount of effort required to give players what they wanted and what they will be given instead are probably about the same. You have to modify dungeons to make them pushover easy for new players or modify them to be challenging to the players they already have while giving them proper rewards for their time. Cryptic once again chose unwisely. A little money from a whole lot of happy players will always trump a bit more money from only a few very unhappy ones.
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
Giving drops for armor sets that were spread out across 4 dungeons that could be sold at high AD prices in the market did nothing to help Cryptic meet its financial obligations.
I disagree, i think there is a market (call it P2W if you want) of people who came into the game, bought ZEN, transferred it to AD to buy the BIS armor. At that time the game was geared for those people. They are a transient player, come in drop a few hundred bucks. Get BIS, PWN some NUBS, and leave. They would return for new modules to get BIS again and PWN a few NUBS. The economy was healthy because the primary source of income to the F2P players was selling this gear to P2W. The everything became BOP (P2W had to farm gear), feeding RP became a major chore/time suck (you ever sit there feeding RP to your stuff and think I just want to play the Fn game?). It drove off those people. That source of income was replaced with RP which became far cheaper to procure through outside sources. That's when cryptic started to truly have problems meeting financial obligations and started to leverage cash grabs (BIS items through lockboxes) which lead to the power creep.
I've barely been logging in since before the launch of Underdark, and Underdark itself gave me basically no reason to log in; grind HEs and grind skirmishes where my character is basically irrelevant (OP Tank) in the hope of getting a reward; no thanks.
The announced return of dungeons gave me hope that there might be some interest in playing content that I could at least enjoy again, then the bombshell of no Epic dungeons except neo-CN hit and I was disappointed to say the least.
When EE was being tested I said that the story nodes for the removed levelling dungeons should be removed, this remains entirely true. Yes there is a need for a level 60-70 dungeon, but frankly the T1 dungeons could be opened to that level range and the T1 drops adjusted to scale for them (like the Dragon Bone/Mullharond weapons).
The main thing we need is t3 and t4 dungeons. The top end of the game is empty of challenge, except for racing the clock to see if you can complete the content in under 15 minutes (or getting a team of 10 together for Demo). I'm not even 3k IL and I consider a 20 minute T2 run normal and far too easy, I hate to think what it looks like with a 3K or 4K plus party. We need dungeons that people are afraid to even open the door to without a full set of T2 gear and all their campaigns finished. We need dungeons where an 80-90k HP character gets killed by mobs, and 100k plus HP characters are nervous and cautious. These have a chance of being interesting outside of beating the clock.
We need dungeons where the spawns are not completely predictable, where they move (spawn point) and their content changes, so that each run of the dungeon has an opportunity to provide a different experience and create a different story in the player's heads.
We need dungeons where people need to think to beat them.
What we don't need is more levelling dungeons (outside level 60-70).
What you are suggesting sounds way too much like dungeons and dragons
I'm not sure if that is supposed to be praise or criticism of the idea.
I'll just note that random spawn locations and randomised spawn content was something we had working back in NWN1 as purely community based efforts. They have the core of this in the game already, you can see it in the Demonic HEs, so it should not be as big an ask as you might think. (Though in the development cycle for the next Mod it's clearly too late.)
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Why did anybody expect new stuff and the return of all old dungeon in epic form while the workforce of Cryptic has been reduced significantly? Obviously, what you expect is not achievable in one month of development time and a gap of 8 months between 2 mods/expansions usually give everybody a bad impression about the game.
Also, if new Neverwinter themed content requires additional investment, don't expect anything tied to intellectual properties Cryptic and PWE do not own.
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
Why did anybody expect new stuff and the return of all old dungeon in epic form while the workforce of Cryptic has been reduced significantly? Obviously, what you expect is not achievable in one month of development time and a gap of 8 months between 2 mods/expansions usually give everybody a bad impression about the game.
Also, if new Neverwinter themed content requires additional investment, don't expect anything tied to intellectual properties Cryptic and PWE do not own.
They had $, you know like everyone else does corporations live quarter to quarter. When they have a good quarter the owners pocket the $, when they have a bad quarter they "reduce overhead". I submit to you that cryptic did not appropriate invest in future development early on (they were to busy on fancy vacations, yachting around the south china sea, and celebrating at the country club). They did not prepare appropriately for the challenge of a new and popular MMO launch at the same time as Mod 3 was introduced and just watched many long term players ($) walk away from the game. They have never recovered from it and have since been borrowing content (low overhead) and using power creep (increase incoming $) as a method to get what they can from the remaining player base.
You a word magician, putting intectual, cryptic, and pwe in the same sentence. That's amazing, lol
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lonewolfmk1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 137Arc User
Comments
I didnt like leadership changes and I posted.. oh 300 threads about costing concerns.. and to date.. ALMOST every concern feedback I listed has been changed or altered.. Because it was the right thing to do.. they were TOO slow with it, and in doing so lost thousands of players.
So .. I shouldve NOT giving my NEGATIVE feedback and just say.. oh honky donkey.. whatever, I ll just move on?
OR I should give my negative feedback and tell them they are full of garbage and get over themselves and give US stuff we actual want?
Like many, Ive played for awhile.. I want something more then leveling dungeons.. I also believe the "false" type of "spin" is a little decieving at best.. at worst they clearly do not UNDERSTAND at all what player feedback has pointed to.
All I can do is give my feedback.. if that makes a few of you sore, because its a little negative in tone.. but it generates the results the MAJORITY of players actual want.. I could care less about stepping on some toes in between.
They have failed our community , the gamers and most of all the TRADITION of MMO's, there is a history to this stuff and they clearly are making it WORSE not better. Tell me today.. right now, that neverwinter has added to MMO's in general? You cant.. I know you cant, because Ive played most of the major ones.
Eventually, yes if nothing changes even I will leave.. but until then.. I will give my feedback and I believe I actual represent the majority most of the time.. maybe not IN how I express it, but IN the actual request for change of process.
Its nothing self poisining about it.. the game isnt doing whats right, they are doing whats clearly not percieved to be acceptable.
If we DONT give feedback how can that change?
When they introduced the LS changes I wrote something like, 'adjust the prices ASAP and dont wonder, if there is no one arround in 1/2 a year, to pad your back, if you dont react quickly'. I hate to be right.
It's become a pattern.
It's pretty hard to believe they can't re-tune a dungeon once a mod, or once a quarter, and put it back out. That would have us with 3 more re-tooled EPIC dungeons already.
And the new stuff @asterdahl says they are doing instead, well, doesn't hold a candle to the stuff they took away.
I get annoyed when the feedback is not feedback, it's just bitching and moaning about whatever these ppl can grasp on to HAMSTER and moan about. There are several ppl who don't even play the game around here but post a lot of irrelevant fecal matter they have gleaned from other posts.
It will happen again, caveat emptor.
And what pray tell happened when they released eToS, eCC and eGWD when they released them with more hit points on mobs and arp stacking bug?
it is sketchy to spin doctor a presentation of things to come. It is however, not illegal.
You should move on to your next relationship Darth, NW is not for you, quit hanging on the front porch waiting for her to take you back, not happening, you will never be happy with what she offers.
And what pray tell happened when they released eToS, eCC and eGWD when they released them with more hit points on mobs and arp stacking bug?
Yes as a GF
And what pray tell happened when they released eToS, eCC and eGWD when they released them with more hit points on mobs and arp stacking bug?
Yes as a GF I remember that very well. If past history serves they will most likely nerf to OP like they did the GF when everyone said they was to hard to kill and then turn up the mobs they just got done nerfing and we can go back to one shot died mod lol.
Actually skipping repair of the epic dungeons is the path of least resistance on the endgame side.
This move makes absolutely no sense, just like everything this company has done since Icewind Dale.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
Some of my best friends are Imaginary.
The announced return of dungeons gave me hope that there might be some interest in playing content that I could at least enjoy again, then the bombshell of no Epic dungeons except neo-CN hit and I was disappointed to say the least.
When EE was being tested I said that the story nodes for the removed levelling dungeons should be removed, this remains entirely true. Yes there is a need for a level 60-70 dungeon, but frankly the T1 dungeons could be opened to that level range and the T1 drops adjusted to scale for them (like the Dragon Bone/Mullharond weapons).
The main thing we need is t3 and t4 dungeons. The top end of the game is empty of challenge, except for racing the clock to see if you can complete the content in under 15 minutes (or getting a team of 10 together for Demo). I'm not even 3k IL and I consider a 20 minute T2 run normal and far too easy, I hate to think what it looks like with a 3K or 4K plus party. We need dungeons that people are afraid to even open the door to without a full set of T2 gear and all their campaigns finished. We need dungeons where an 80-90k HP character gets killed by mobs, and 100k plus HP characters are nervous and cautious. These have a chance of being interesting outside of beating the clock.
We need dungeons where the spawns are not completely predictable, where they move (spawn point) and their content changes, so that each run of the dungeon has an opportunity to provide a different experience and create a different story in the player's heads.
We need dungeons where people need to think to beat them.
What we don't need is more levelling dungeons (outside level 60-70).
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Mod 9 is bringing back dungeons removed that would apparently only benefit those who are levelling. Actually, with a little thought, the player base may cool some of the criticism here. There is one benefit to levelling dungeons for end-game players, and that is a wider choice to put low geared alts through dungeons for easy AD. But, that is it.
Adding epic dungeons (whether eCN by itself) or with all the epic dungeons back do give variety in end-game. But, if the reward system is the same, an epic drop that is so far below in usefulness that it will only be donated to the guild coffer for surplus or salvaged, then epic dungeons in-and-of-themselves will not solve the disjointed milieu of the end-game. And herein lies the problem. With the change in the refining system, the addition of artifacts, artifact gear, and more, the set bonuses that used to be on armors won from dungeons are now from artifact-artigear combinations, all designed to open your wallets and spend more money. Giving drops for armor sets that were spread out across 4 dungeons that could be sold at high AD prices in the market did nothing to help Cryptic meet its financial obligations. So, these were replaced by the ever-necessary refining points. Every advancement is tied to something necessary in a lockbox, tar bar market, or the bazaar.
So, how can Cryptic balance the need to make money with the desire of the player base to have variety and success without repetition? I believe a balance can be found.
First, you need to return the classic dungeons, scaled to level 70, for epic runs, as soon as possible. The playerbase is telling you that variety is necessary, but so is tradition and nostalgia. We don't even need changes in the old dungeons. Just bring them back. I would love to show guild members what epic Dread Vault was like.
Second, you need to simplify the reward system for refine points. Have one levelling currency. Have one type of status (never bound). The need for bags is less important than the need for simplicity.
Third, you need to add rewards at the end of the dungeon that make the whole dungeon worthwhile. Having an epic drop worth less than what I currently have for 3-5k AD on salvage will not make a dungeon desirable or fun.
Fourth, you need to balance the difficulty of the dungeons to the types of players who will be in it. This is one of the biggest complaints from the playerbase. Dungeons are too hard, until players become BiS. Then this playerbase complains, and you make dungeons harder. Then, the rest of the playerbase complains that dungeons are too hard, and then you nerf dungeons. And then everyone does a dungeon and its too easy. And then power creep makes it way too easy. And then you increase it again, and the cycle goes on an on. The solution is to make every dungeon scaleable by difficult. For example, Cloak Tower can have 6 settings: the under 70 3-man, a T1 run, a T2 run, a T3 run, a T4 run, and the impossible T5. Let the party decide which. Scale difficulty and rewards based on what the team runs. For a T5, make it geared towards those who would need BiS gear and enchants, maxed mounts, a mixed party, a top stronghold (4 maxed boon structures). Make it so hard that every BiS person think it impossible. Make the permabubble OP melt under attacks. The party wiped 99% of the time. Make it based on skill at playing the classes, not the gear. Can't do it? Go run a lesser dungeon then for lesser rewards and dream of the time when you can do it. And make completing it special.
Fifth, give us something to do in strongholds other than grind to feed the coffer. The Siege is too long and not interesting enough. How about a guild ranked battle? This is not PvP. This is a way to earn prestige on the server for your guild with special benefits, like maybe reduced costs for the wondrous bazaar... Have a once per week time when everyone in the guild competes to enter all content on the server to earn points towards the ranking of the guild. And I mean ALL content. Thus, those at level 15 entering a skirmish earn the same points as those at level 70 killing Demogorgon. In fact, make it so that points are capped based on who donates, which means guilds will spread out there participation to those who are not BiS 70s. Add all the points up. Rank the guilds based on participation in this 1 hour time frame. Then give rewards in the stronghold for that guild for that week. For example, top 20 guilds get a special salvager in the guild. This salvager adds 10% AD to all salvages. Top 10 guilds get extra XP of 25% for the week. Top 5 guilds get double refine points for the week. Top guild gets title, additional stat bonus for the week, and additional 25% off all purchases in zen, tar bar, and bazaar (added on top of whatever ViP or coupon). GRB functions like a 'RAID' but is against a clock and all the players in other guilds. Have the GRB generate Guild based Prestige Points, which can be used to purchase things for the guild, like unlock content (housing), or maybe utilities (like a special trader in the guild house for vouchers and fangs), or decorations (like personalization of guild fashion, stronghold, colors, etc...), or maybe even a maybe even a zoning trader, who can convert a zone on the stronghold map into another plot type, like from a support structure to a boon structure, with prestige points adjusted based on what is converted, and how many (like support structure to a boon plot...500k Prestige points, etc, 2nd boon plot....1Mil Prestige points), until you have all the boon structure plots.
Sixth, don't repackage older content with newer content so that we think its new. It is not wise in a marketing strategy to think that new and improved on the label with a couple added 'fortified vitamins' will make us like it. The old playerbase of Neverwinter likes the tradition, the lore, and new content. New players do not see how the old content flowed in one large story, culminating in mod 2s, the dread ring. As the game is designed with hubs of lore (and maps), develop your strategy based on these hubs. For example, IWD has its own map, but nothing else developed. You have access to lore there, but do nothing with it. You have Mantol Derith, which could be its own hub of content. Instead, you insert Demonic HEs everywhere where they do not belong. We don't mind the hubs. Its ok. We know Neverwinter is not a sandbox open world game. Don't try to make it one by inserting lore in where it doesn't belong. So many possible hubs of exploration, and instead you give us muesli in every zone. Keep the lore separate. Keep the hubs separate.
Seventh, combine master craft professions with foundry content. Instead of grinding out nodes in meaningless zones where bots can run all day. Partner with some long time foundry authors to create 'lore' based foundries that might offer rewards for master craft upon completion. Call these the Master craft foundries. You can keep adding to them. Then, make it a reward for being a Master Craft foundry author. Have a submission contest, test it. The more foundries, the more one can get the master craft rewards. And foundry authors get the bonuses of having people run their content.
Be inventive and help us like the game...no love the game again!
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
And if you really want to make everyone a happy biscuit, than scrap the current refining system alltogether and add an experienced based system instead, where you, like in Path of Exile for example, level your gear by gathering exp. So in other words, you get rewarded for playing the game in any form you want.
Almost every single player there is "premium", not because all the best stuff is paywalled, but because it is reasonably priced for the benefits you receive while giving nothing that bestows an unfair advantage and it gives a instantly recognizable way for other players to see you are supporting the game. PVP? Gear isn't even involved and totally on the level for all players (except the really sweet OWPVP) so it's only about skill and teamwork, like I begged them to do here. I really wish that Cryptic had listened to us because this could have happened here to NWO. Instead it bleeds players to games like BnS. When Black Desert comes out in a couple months and Mod 9 comes out here, I'm sorry but even the lure of D&D won't keep players wasting time on this nonsense.
I felt bad for the devs for a time as I know that to some extent their hands are tied. But the amount of effort required to give players what they wanted and what they will be given instead are probably about the same. You have to modify dungeons to make them pushover easy for new players or modify them to be challenging to the players they already have while giving them proper rewards for their time. Cryptic once again chose unwisely. A little money from a whole lot of happy players will always trump a bit more money from only a few very unhappy ones.
It will never happen because XP can be botted.
I'll just note that random spawn locations and randomised spawn content was something we had working back in NWN1 as purely community based efforts. They have the core of this in the game already, you can see it in the Demonic HEs, so it should not be as big an ask as you might think. (Though in the development cycle for the next Mod it's clearly too late.)
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Also, if new Neverwinter themed content requires additional investment, don't expect anything tied to intellectual properties Cryptic and PWE do not own.
You a word magician, putting intectual, cryptic, and pwe in the same sentence. That's amazing, lol
Oh and RP cant? You should take a look at the AH one of these days...