With Module 6 we made some changes to the way dungeons and epic dungeons worked. With dungeons, we reduced the amount of players required and shifted away from designing fights to require roles, so that those queues could fire more quickly and players could play these dungeons as they level up, regardless of the disparity between players playing various roles.
This was a good move. I liked the ability that I've had, you know, since Beta to run the dungeons with any party make up I choose.
With epic dungeons, we wanted to continue to enforce role restrictions and move towards encounters that more strongly required roles and cooperation.
What role restrictions? This is news to me. There have never been any restrictions on the game like this. Have you ever tried searching for a healer and tank for a dungeon that isn't elol? best of luck, not happening. Why should we be forced to have a party composition that you deem appropriate? Why not leave it up to the players on how to play the game? This change to the queue system for existing epics that DON'T NEED tanks or healers (or just healers, as OP is OP) is condescending. I don't want to be told how to enjoy your game and have my fun dungeon delves gated by the inability to find a tank or healer for a dungeon that doesn't need it due to low server population.
As far as why we chose to bring some of these dungeons back as leveling dungeons. With Module 9 we're introducing a big EXP bonus to leveling dungeons, to give new players and those leveling alts an alternate path of advancement, and really improve everyone's experience when leveling. To coincide with those changes, and the updates to the queue system, bringing back the 4 dungeons that are returning as leveling dungeons is a much smaller task that doesn't involve nearly as much rigor in terms of design, or testing, as generally the mechanics and tuning in these dungeons is much easier.
You missed the point entirely. People don't run the crappy leveling dungeons. People aren't leveling! The people who give you feedback and test your game and are passionate about it are MAX level. We don't NEED leveling content. There is only one leveling grind in the game and that is the overleveling and 60-70. The new campaign can help with 60-70 in a big way (I saw the exp rewards on preview). Why did you choose to institute FOUR pieces of content that no one will run and ONE that people actually will? No thanks. Take these back and bring out a second epic dungeon.
I have 8 max level toons. 8. Do you know what they need? Not leveling dungeons, but better loot, ways to make money, and more fun endgame things to run to gear up.
BUT the leveling is for someone has alts and give good ad same ad and lesser time than run an epic one. SOme of the poeple gave feedback are the same running (include me) 3 man tos x2 times per alt because that is better for ad(that is smart way earn ad but ofcourse is not fun at all) than to play the no rewarding t1 or t2.
AAA and about the ad you get in leveling dungeons i dont mind if put a rule : when you are level 70 you get 0 ad from those.IS not the best thing best in slot characters to queue for those.
Making them excellent ways to level new characters or earn power points
Or get rank 5 enchants?
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
This may kill the game right here.
Empty promises and the continuation of highly ambiguous and misleading statements in the blogs. Why bring something out, if you know full well that it is not what we asked for and what you promised would be delivered soon? We asked FOR EPIC CONTENT... not leveling content.
Keep the little kid dungeons and just give us the fricking stables and CN. Don't waste our time and your time by releasing this concept.
THIS GAME STARTS at 70. It does not start when you land on the beach. The beach and the pre-70 content is foreplay. Granted I like a lot of foreplay... but eventually you need to enjoy the fruits of your labors.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
You missed the point entirely. People don't run the crappy leveling dungeons. People aren't leveling! The people who give you feedback and test your game and are passionate about it are MAX level. We don't NEED leveling content. There is only one leveling grind in the game and that is the overleveling and 60-70. The new campaign can help with 60-70 in a big way (I saw the exp rewards on preview). Why did you choose to institute FOUR pieces of content that no one will run and ONE that people actually will? No thanks. Take these back and bring out a second epic dungeon.
I think the fundamental issue here is that Cryptic doesn't understand it's playerbase, nor it's revenue stream here. They are looking at new players as potential companion and mount sales. It costs to gear up a level 70 character. Even if you can earn all the items and RP in game you need, you are still going to be shelling out money for companions and mounts. So each new player in the game is potentially a new mount sale and new companion sales. The new mount system only serves to reinforce that as I haven't yet seen any real bonuses on mounts below epic (ie. something you could get in the game without someone having put in zen).
As a guild leader I have however seen how this really works. Those who shell out the money for epic mounts and companions are those who are here long term. They are the ones buying the lockbox keys, and converting zen into ADs to buy RP for their gear. They are the ones paying Cryptic's bills. It's not the new player who has just finished the tower district and wants to run through Cloak Tower.
So my prediction for Mod 9 is thus ...
Everyone will buy up a pile of mounts looking for that oh so perfect bonus to complete their build. They will take their new mount and their other gear and storm their way through Castle Never. In a few weeks most of the playerbase will have mastered CN and be back to their post mod 8 boredom and be on the forums here demanding the rest of their dungeons back. A few people leveling will try to run the newly returned dungeons only to find level 70 bots riding full speed through them to the end for their daily AD and will become so disgusted by the game they will give up on non epic dungeons.
You missed the point entirely. People don't run the crappy leveling dungeons. People aren't leveling! The people who give you feedback and test your game and are passionate about it are MAX level. We don't NEED leveling content. There is only one leveling grind in the game and that is the overleveling and 60-70. The new campaign can help with 60-70 in a big way (I saw the exp rewards on preview). Why did you choose to institute FOUR pieces of content that no one will run and ONE that people actually will? No thanks. Take these back and bring out a second epic dungeon.
I think the fundamental issue here is that Cryptic doesn't understand it's playerbase, nor it's revenue stream here. They are looking at new players as potential companion and mount sales. It costs to gear up a level 70 character. Even if you can earn all the items and RP in game you need, you are still going to be shelling out money for companions and mounts. So each new player in the game is potentially a new mount sale and new companion sales. The new mount system only serves to reinforce that as I haven't yet seen any real bonuses on mounts below epic (ie. something you could get in the game without someone having put in zen).
As a guild leader I have however seen how this really works. Those who shell out the money for epic mounts and companions are those who are here long term. They are the ones buying the lockbox keys, and converting zen into ADs to buy RP for their gear. They are the ones paying Cryptic's bills. It's not the new player who has just finished the tower district and wants to run through Cloak Tower.
So my prediction for Mod 9 is thus ...
Everyone will buy up a pile of mounts looking for that oh so perfect bonus to complete their build. They will take their new mount and their other gear and storm their way through Castle Never. In a few weeks most of the playerbase will have mastered CN and be back to their post mod 8 boredom and be on the forums here demanding the rest of their dungeons back. A few people leveling will try to run the newly returned dungeons only to find level 70 bots riding full speed through them to the end for their daily AD and will become so disgusted by the game they will give up on non epic dungeons.
i am already for the leadership fix.Not because they removed the ad but they think they stopped cheaters i will call them .( scripts for autoprofessions i heard still running through gateway)
This, in summation, is how a strong majority of the players I know feel about finding out the old Dungeons were coming back and then finding out they are 3-man Leveling Dungeons, and NOT Epic T1/T2s... We feel like Miss Columbia to Cryptic's Steve Harvey.
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kieranmtornMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 382Arc User
The returned dungeons as leveling dungeons is an epic disappointment. I had planned on spending some money on mounts, but now I see no point.
There is no "End Game" unless you are taking the servers down? This game like the countless others keep adding more and more. It was also suppose to use the Foundry for "unlimited content", but recent events has me wondering if they plan to allow the whole game to decay and hope players will move to the next new shiny game (whatever it might be) in the future. Some players have noted there are only 3 anniversary tiles in the Garden. The 3rd anniversary of the game is this year. Once that empty slot is filled, then what? These events have me saving up my money to buy the next $200 Founder's Pack for their new game. Roll the credits!
This is a huge disappointment to me and I guess for everyone who has 3k+ Ilvl. We dont need any leveling dungeons. We need new and challenging endgame content. M9 is like M5. People are soling dungeons. The whole endgame content is too easy and if CN will need 2k Ilvl it will be also too easy... I think this game is missing challenging content, at least 1 dungeon should be such hard that 3k+ Ilvl struggles to complete it.
Please re-think this, it's like showing a starving person a picture of a sandwich. I have to hope that you folks at Cryptic want the game to be good again....but really, you seem to be over thinking it. All the game has needed for a while now is the old epic DD's back, unchanged / butchered with loot and mob level adjusted. I'm sure that's not as easily completed as it is written, but it is definitely not impossible if time was not spent introducing all the stuff that flopped...bizarre ring powers, drains, a pvp map that noone plays... and loony toon characters posing as demons in what were originally pretty well designed areas. As a long time player, I honestly think 1 new pvp arena and a new adventure zone with dungeon (real dungeon not the skirmishes we've seen since mod 4) every 6 months would have been all that's required to keep me interested.
It has been said before, and I think is worth repeating: most players can get to 60 in a flash, and generally miss content because it is so fast, and 60 to 70 is fairly well catered for with existing content (and the odd 2x weekend), so why provide additional leveling dungeons when they will probably only be run once in a characters lifetime?
I would have hoped that you would have noticed by now how everyone is grinding to 70 as fast as possible to be able to enjoy end-game content. If you only ever release end-game content (the existing 1 to 60 content is already beautiful and exciting), you are very likely to squeeze some more hard earned coin from lowbie characters, bent on some XP boosters for the grind to 70, that they can finally enjoy what the game should have to offer.
Incidentally, while the return of these old dungeons should be expected, it certainly should not be delivered at the expense of improving the end-game.
In closing, I would like to add thanks to the Devs, I really enjoy this game and they have done a great job getting us to where we are. Bugs, and the like, are inevitable and it is very easy to only see the negatives. However, my experience has certainly only been good, and I will still be here for some time to come. Thanks Devs, I love this game!
returned dungeons needs to be epic ,I know this is some extra programing time for u but we need them epic we are all boreded of farming the same few dungeons
btw how someone makes text blue on this new forums?
I think a moderator should link this post with the related post in the Preview forum... the Devs need to see the feedback their loyal players are providing them i.e. we dont need to level any faster, we need more end-game to keep our game sessions exciting, please.
Why is anyone surprised by this? Cryptic repeatedly show a complete lack of empathy when it comes to what the playerbase would like, instead they press on with content that is of little appeal to all but the zealots. Singularly poor leadership that allows the obvious limited resources to be squandered, is clearly leading the game to a quick end.
This, in summation, is how a strong majority of the players I know feel about finding out the old Dungeons were coming back and then finding out they are 3-man Leveling Dungeons, and NOT Epic T1/T2s... We feel like Miss Columbia to Cryptic's Steve Harvey.
This. A million times over.
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blazious11Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 331Arc User
There are some words that could describe my feelings right now, but all of them would be blocked by the profanity filter.
Finnally I thought the game is going to the right direction, and boooom, you just ruined it, just like with Mod6. Finally I thought you are going to listen to your playerbase, but again, as I see it, you only care about short-term profit.
Players wanted new dungeons, or the old to come back, but you just turned the new dungeon to a big Heroic encounter, which most of the players absolutely hate by now.
I was really patient, but as I see it, this mod will finally chase away your old playerbase.
My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
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blazious11Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 331Arc User
There are some words that could describe my feelings right now, but all of them would be blocked by the profanity filter.
Finnally I thought the game is going to the right direction, and boooom, you just ruined it, just like with Mod6. Finally I thought you are going to listen to your playerbase, but again, as I see it, you only care about short-term profit.
Players wanted new dungeons, or the old to come back, but you just turned the new dungeon to a big Heroic encounter, which most of the players absolutely hate by now.
I was really patient, but as I see it, this mod will finally chase away your old playerbase.
My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
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blazious11Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 331Arc User
So, basically the most exciting thing, that this game offered in months, is the NPC idol competition on the forums. That sums it up.
My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
I cannot believe this HAMSTER, your playbase has been BEGGING for new endgame content and you bring back 3 dungeons as leveling dungeons? Is this real? Please tell me I'm losing my mind. Every bone in my body just protests and wants to quit this horrible game, I can't even express anything right now. Funny thing, you brought more power creep with the mounts now so we can complete etos in 3 mintues instead of 5? ARE YOU KIDDING ME
No contents, no players, maybe with the mass exodus of players within a month or two they will review their positions.
Their "position" is obvious that PC version is nothing but an extended beta-test server for game console versions.
Remember this lie?
Infinite Content Neverwinter comes with the Foundry, a dynamic toolset that provides you the game assets and a sandbox environment to create your own adventures. When your creation is complete, you can hook it up directly into the existing world for everyone in the community to play!
boltzmann42Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 46Arc User
edited February 2016
This is ridiculous, atm we already complete too easily the top tier dungeons and you add ONE dungeon not harder, 4 pitiful pre-60 dungeons ? And you give us a huge boost in power, is that a joke ? more power creep but no harder content ? where is the logic ? Even the *new* leveling content is bad. Leveling before 60 is easy and after 60 the leveling dungeons are too easy to be interesting. We feel stabbed in the back.
Naturally on any given project, there are only so many resources, so if we spend time going back to re-master an old dungeon, that's time that can't be spent making new things.
While there's certainly a possibility that some of these dungeons might receive an epic dungeon treatment at some point, keep in mind that we'll be continuing to build new things as well.
OK, we say it one more time. We WANT the EPIC dungeons BACK, we DON'T CARE if there is no "new things". Furthermore if those "new" things TRIVIALIZE the old AND new content. Another point you may have missed is that there is players that don't know the "old" disappeared dungeons and the re-mastering of those would be entirely new content for them. So yes, spend time re-mastering old dungeons and don't make new things that further break the game.
Comments
This was a good move. I liked the ability that I've had, you know, since Beta to run the dungeons with any party make up I choose.
What role restrictions? This is news to me. There have never been any restrictions on the game like this. Have you ever tried searching for a healer and tank for a dungeon that isn't elol? best of luck, not happening. Why should we be forced to have a party composition that you deem appropriate? Why not leave it up to the players on how to play the game? This change to the queue system for existing epics that DON'T NEED tanks or healers (or just healers, as OP is OP) is condescending. I don't want to be told how to enjoy your game and have my fun dungeon delves gated by the inability to find a tank or healer for a dungeon that doesn't need it due to low server population.
You missed the point entirely. People don't run the crappy leveling dungeons. People aren't leveling! The people who give you feedback and test your game and are passionate about it are MAX level. We don't NEED leveling content. There is only one leveling grind in the game and that is the overleveling and 60-70. The new campaign can help with 60-70 in a big way (I saw the exp rewards on preview). Why did you choose to institute FOUR pieces of content that no one will run and ONE that people actually will? No thanks. Take these back and bring out a second epic dungeon.
I have 8 max level toons. 8. Do you know what they need? Not leveling dungeons, but better loot, ways to make money, and more fun endgame things to run to gear up.
BUT the leveling is for someone has alts and give good ad same ad and lesser time than run an epic one.
SOme of the poeple gave feedback are the same running (include me) 3 man tos x2 times per alt because that is better for ad(that is smart way earn ad but ofcourse is not fun at all) than to play the no rewarding t1 or t2.
AAA and about the ad you get in leveling dungeons i dont mind if put a rule : when you are level 70 you get 0 ad from those.IS not the best thing best in slot characters to queue for those.
Empty promises and the continuation of highly ambiguous and misleading statements in the blogs. Why bring something out, if you know full well that it is not what we asked for and what you promised would be delivered soon? We asked FOR EPIC CONTENT... not leveling content.
Keep the little kid dungeons and just give us the fricking stables and CN. Don't waste our time and your time by releasing this concept.
THIS GAME STARTS at 70. It does not start when you land on the beach. The beach and the pre-70 content is foreplay. Granted I like a lot of foreplay... but eventually you need to enjoy the fruits of your labors.
As a guild leader I have however seen how this really works. Those who shell out the money for epic mounts and companions are those who are here long term. They are the ones buying the lockbox keys, and converting zen into ADs to buy RP for their gear. They are the ones paying Cryptic's bills. It's not the new player who has just finished the tower district and wants to run through Cloak Tower.
So my prediction for Mod 9 is thus ...
Everyone will buy up a pile of mounts looking for that oh so perfect bonus to complete their build. They will take their new mount and their other gear and storm their way through Castle Never. In a few weeks most of the playerbase will have mastered CN and be back to their post mod 8 boredom and be on the forums here demanding the rest of their dungeons back. A few people leveling will try to run the newly returned dungeons only to find level 70 bots riding full speed through them to the end for their daily AD and will become so disgusted by the game they will give up on non epic dungeons.
Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
I would have hoped that you would have noticed by now how everyone is grinding to 70 as fast as possible to be able to enjoy end-game content. If you only ever release end-game content (the existing 1 to 60 content is already beautiful and exciting), you are very likely to squeeze some more hard earned coin from lowbie characters, bent on some XP boosters for the grind to 70, that they can finally enjoy what the game should have to offer.
Incidentally, while the return of these old dungeons should be expected, it certainly should not be delivered at the expense of improving the end-game.
In closing, I would like to add thanks to the Devs, I really enjoy this game and they have done a great job getting us to where we are. Bugs, and the like, are inevitable and it is very easy to only see the negatives. However, my experience has certainly only been good, and I will still be here for some time to come. Thanks Devs, I love this game!
btw how someone makes text blue on this new forums?
Finnally I thought the game is going to the right direction, and boooom, you just ruined it, just like with Mod6.
Finally I thought you are going to listen to your playerbase, but again, as I see it, you only care about short-term profit.
Players wanted new dungeons, or the old to come back, but you just turned the new dungeon to a big Heroic encounter, which most of the players absolutely hate by now.
I was really patient, but as I see it, this mod will finally chase away your old playerbase.
Finnally I thought the game is going to the right direction, and boooom, you just ruined it, just like with Mod6.
Finally I thought you are going to listen to your playerbase, but again, as I see it, you only care about short-term profit.
Players wanted new dungeons, or the old to come back, but you just turned the new dungeon to a big Heroic encounter, which most of the players absolutely hate by now.
I was really patient, but as I see it, this mod will finally chase away your old playerbase.
That sums it up.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
Because 4 mods later they might become epic dungeons? Sooooo great.
Their "position" is obvious that PC version is nothing but an extended beta-test server for game console versions.
Remember this lie?
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics