Yeah, I am pretty much done waiting for new lvl 70 content. The misleading post is bad form...... No new class to even think about taking advantage of bringing back OLD dungeons. Great time for new players, more disappointment for everyone else! Time to look elsewhere.
What can i really say that hasn't already been said so eloquently. Perhaps how I feel on hearing this news.
I feel disappointed and I feel deceived. Having read the dev blog that stated:
"Epic Dungeons are available once you reach level 70. These are either revisited versions of regular dungeons or new end-game-only dungeons. These are considerably harder than your basic 3-person dungeons, with additional requirements."
That paragraph suggested to me that Epic Dungeons (Pleural) are coming back. This is reinforced by the by the last sentence saying that these (Pleural again!) are harder that your basic 3-person dungeons!
I don't really think this is a case of symantics and whilst I remember a Dev commenting on having their words thrown back at them, please understand that i feel someone here has done a bait and switch on us. I feel mislead!
I re-read the blog over and over again. And also noticed that they were talking in plural, yet nothing is being introduced in that manner.
my fellow Guild mates from Civil Anarchy are right. Please do not ignore the end game well geared player, we are your player base. We asked for a challenge and you made the game easier by buffing our mounts.
From a professional who completes personal development plans for colleagues...you have so far not met your core standards as mods and devs. I would like your seniors to have a voice on these forums not just people with excuses.
Tab
Tabatha@rotters // Scourge Warlock // Co Leader // Civil Anarchy
We are looking for non elitist guilds to join our alliance.
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
Here is the funny thing the new content is so ridiculously simple and not even worth releasing. I ran the entire campaign and I could have run it naked and still finished.
I remember way back when you guys doubted our words when we told you that Traven was too hard. You ignored us when we said that there was an ArPen bug that destroyed the whole party. I know there are a lot of devs who play the game and hide in plain slight. I know that you like to have the pot stirred... yet you have no concept of what is going on in the game.
Time to go back to the drawing board and come up with something better. Keep your fricking dungeons... until you give us what we asked for and we were promised. Your lies and double-talk will not serve you where you have no believers. We want to believe you but we know you have lied and dragged your feet when you got caught. Remove the comment all you want. I SPEAK THE TRUTH as always
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
SYNERGY Alliance
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instynctiveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,885Arc User
And to think.. all they have to do is fix the Foundry.. add assets (like options for bosses).. make the editor more powerful.. increase rewards for players..
Yeah, but 90% of Foundries are HAMSTER!
So don't play them. Or continue to grind out the same 5 areas and the same 3 dungeons that you've been grinding for the past year.
So have such a powerful tool for "infinite content" just kind of fade away is... incomprehensible to me.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
The dev blog post is very misleading and I think it is deliberately so. The whole idea behind it was to hype up the people playing the game who saw it and for them to share it with players they know who have quit. It is written with the implication that the dungeons will be returning at both epic and non epic and at no point does it definitively say that the returning dungeons will not have a non epic version. Furthermore, a few threads (which I have noticed have mysteriously disappeared from the forums now) were opened up before this testing thread clarified this where people showed how pleased they were with the return of epic dungeons, as it was obvious that this was what the player base believed, you should have corrected the misbelief...
Quite simply put, this is false advertising and predatory market tactics at work, that entire blog post should either be rewritten, or taken down.
drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
edited February 2016
To take Fab's comments another step... further.
Don't show someone something unless it is ready to go... and it is something that they are looking for. You guys strive to be UPOD, yet you over-achieve and deliver OPUD.
UPOD... Under Promise Over Deliver
OPUD... Over Promise Under Deliver
If this game was not initially phenomenal... it and Cryptic would have gone bankrupt already. How do I know that... I have opened successful businesses and restaurants... I have opened unsuccessful businesses and restaurants. So I know what works and I know what wont work.
Offering substandard follow thru after you delivered an amazing product... disrespects the initial offering.
I always wanted to believe that Cryptic was really desiring to be a successful business.
To put is like this... in the 80's, one of the Big 3 said they had the most amazing vehicle that would be coming out in the future. They puffed it up and pushed the K-car like it was the best vehicle since the invention of the wheel. It was one of the worst vehicles to ever be released by a car company. The issue is that this car company thought they knew what the people were looking for... and they were wrong.
This is about market research... research what your market wants and offer something in a subdued manner and knock their socks off when it comes out.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
was so very exicited to see "dungeons" coming back..
was so very exicted to see them as 3 man leveling dungeons, as it was sorely needed..
was so DISAPPOINTED to see that only CN would be the new epic run. No new 5 man epics. I hate running T2's now. Have run ETOS, EGWD, and ECC ad nauseum. Have run EDemo enough times to glomm twisted main hand. not sure I grind it more to get the offhand.
My apologies, but the plans for the new dungeons stinketh, from the perspective of an endgame player.
and what do you precisely think to accomplish with that? not like i dont agree but these are their plans for mod 9 and its kinda late to change anything.
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aimeesellersMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 342Arc User
Did anyone else notice that a dev just said in mod 6 they tried to take roles out of dungeons? Well you released a Pally so that is exactly how you do that. But you must realize you cannot put roles in a dungeon while that class is in its current stage. Better players will not take them for some fun. But you can't make a dungeon difficult when everyone has 100% immunity.
- You removed our dungeons for like a year.... and brought them back as leveling 3 mans? what player base said to do this?
- You said if they spend all their time fixing old mistakes, they can't work on new content ....
WE DONT WANT NEW CONTENT. If you would once and for all fix all of the bugs in the old content. Granted it might take more than a full mod to do so. Your game would be multitudes better. The more you guys force out new content like CN without any player feedback, the more you will get 85-88% negative feedback. I mean the only testing we got for CN was alpha and you didn't change anything. You said all these dungeons are coming in an announcement and no one said as leveling dungeons. We know you said that to avoid a rage, but now it is out and you guys really need to explain yourselves.
Please... As one of the few vets left in this game. Why have you guys stopped listening to the players? Why would you admit to not working on broken things so you can push out new content? Why would you in any right mind at all think that releasing our old favorites as leveling dungeons would satisfy anyone at all? Tiamat, sure.... Epic demo, sure.... They aren't the dungeons that built this game. They are zergs.... The first dungeons released required teamwork, strategy, no Oathbound immunity button, and healers who could heal, tanks to tank, and everyone else better dodge or they are dead. It wasn't all one shots, so healers could actually heal. We had sets to stack together like high viz, high general, war prophets, you name it. But... we had like 4k power.. and 24k hp lol... so the power creep/grap wasn't as insanely huge as it is now.
- I know I say a lot of sarcastic things. But if you guys truly do not want to lose this game you are going to have to listen to the players here. over 85% of the population wants the old CN back. Literally copy/paste it in and increase levels caps to some insanely high level and make no dailies usable or no OP's allowed in it and you officially have the hardest dungeon back in the game. People didn't quit when they couldn't do a dungeon, they worked harder to learn how. You are all afraid if you fix OP's to where their binding oath works as intended, or divine protector can't build up AP during its active time that people will leave. No, they will use a GF who has to get his daily up and use KV when he needs it and actually takes some skill. They will adapt. Not being able to win doesn't make people quit. It makes them learn how. Give us a challenge.... G
Lastly, just give the players what they want. We have seen what you want. And mod 6-8 have been some of the most disappointing mods to date, with more players leaving than ever before nearly entirely do to dev decisions and poor communication. I'm sure a lot of the bridges are burned, but if you guys just listened to us ONCE, you could bring a lot of them back.
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andorrabellMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 437Arc User
This is correct, Caverns of Karrundax, Frozen Heart, Cloak Tower and the Lair of the Pirate King (Returning as "Vault of the Pirate King") will only be available as 3 man dungeons for now. That being said, those dungeons, along with all other dungeons will be getting an significant EXP bonus that is granted upon completion. Making them excellent ways to level new characters or earn power points. In addition we're overhauling how seals work before endgame, unifying and simplifying them and adding more useful repeatable purchases to make with those seals.
Castle Never and the Maze Engine campaign are the pieces of content that we are targeting at endgame players this module, with the former being a new tier 2 dungeon, on the same difficulty level of the Epic Dungeon version of Cragmire and Temple of the Spider, albeit with new challenges and mechanics to overcome, and some new rewards to obtain.
Creating an Epic Dungeon version of an existing dungeon is certainly a somewhat easier task from an environment art perspective than making an entirely new dungeon, but there is still a lot of design work, as well as effects, animation, character art and testing that go into remaking a dungeon into a new endgame experience. Naturally on any given project, there are only so many resources, so if we spend time going back to re-master an old dungeon, that's time that can't be spent making new things.
While there's certainly a possibility that some of these dungeons might receive an epic dungeon treatment at some point, keep in mind that we'll be continuing to build new things as well.
Empty promises and the continuation of highly ambiguous and misleading statements in the blogs. Why bring something out, if you know full well that it is not what we asked for and what you promised would be delivered soon? We asked FOR EPIC CONTENT... not leveling content.
Keep the little kid dungeons and just give us the fricking stables and CN. Don't waste our time and your time by releasing this concept.
THIS GAME STARTS at 70. It does not start when you land on the beach. The beach and the pre-70 content is foreplay. Granted I like a lot of foreplay... but eventually you need to enjoy the fruits of your labors.
This. I never ever did "leveling dungeons" when leveling. Why are you remaking content that will not be used when we need things to do at level 70.
Can you please explain the reasoning for the developer team deciding to make the dungeons leveling difficulty instead of endgame content?
As far as why we chose to bring some of these dungeons back as leveling dungeons. With Module 9 we're introducing a big EXP bonus to leveling dungeons, to give new players and those leveling alts an alternate path of advancement, and really improve everyone's experience when leveling.
DERP- now people can get to stagnating at 70 even faster! Yall know how incredibly fast it is to level toons in this game already, right?
All I can say is that I am greatly ashamed to play to know I am associated with, by virtue of playing the game, the kind of people who whine and moan over nothing.
-"WAAA!!! we want to get stronger and have harder content!" Cryptic releases a higher level cap to allow for stronger monsters and skrims/dungeons. -"WAAA!!! Getting to 70 and end game is too hard!" Cryptic releases Underdark which gives people the Dwarven King storyline to fill in some of the gap, and drow armor, which is easy to get, and is some of the best armor in the game. -"WAAA!!! the 60-70 grind is still to much we hate having to do vigilance quests still!" Cryptic makes the 60-70 grind even easier with the upcoming Maze Engine module. -"WAAA!!! CRYPTIC DOESN'T CARE ABOUT US AND ISN'T LISTENING TO WHAT WE WANT!!!!" despite the fact everything from module 6-9 has been about doing what lots of people asked for.
To be honest, you people are abominable, and make the infamously whiny Star Trek Online crowd look tame by comparison. If any of you think what Cryptic is doing is bad, or going to kill the game, you should go take a look at other MMOs, they are FAR FAR worse, by miles.
All I can say is that I am greatly ashamed to play to know I am associated with, by virtue of playing the game, the kind of people who whine and moan over nothing.
-"WAAA!!! we want to get stronger and have harder content!" Cryptic releases a higher level cap to allow for stronger monsters and skrims/dungeons. -"WAAA!!! Getting to 70 and end game is too hard!" Cryptic releases Underdark which gives people the Dwarven King storyline to fill in some of the gap, and drow armor, which is easy to get, and is some of the best armor in the game. -"WAAA!!! the 60-70 grind is still to much we hate having to do vigilance quests still!" Cryptic makes the 60-70 grind even easier with the upcoming Maze Engine module. -"WAAA!!! CRYPTIC DOESN'T CARE ABOUT US AND ISN'T LISTENING TO WHAT WE WANT!!!!" despite the fact everything from module 6-9 has been about doing what lots of people asked for.
To be honest, you people are abominable, and make the infamously whiny Star Trek Online crowd look tame by comparison. If any of you think what Cryptic is doing is bad, or going to kill the game, you should go take a look at other MMOs, they are FAR FAR worse, by miles.
I don't even...
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
This is totally unacceptable. We have been waiting for MONTHS for the return of these dungeons... being told they were being reworked to fit into the new power structure.
Maybe they were back when mod 6 came out, but now the "power structure" has fallen apart once again to a state even more unbalanced than at the end of mod 5, despite the whole point of changing the stat curves and everything else was to prevent that in the future, so... yeah.
Anyway, based on the Karrundax we have now, even as leveling dungeon it seems really underpowered and a complete faceroll, unless maybe you get the worst possible party composition with all green gear.
WHAT!? No epic ones!? That is the biggest slap to the face. You have any idea how easy and boring the 3-man dungeons are? How does it take months to tweak and release easy fillers that already existed in the first place? You may as well not bother bringing them back.
To you easy is boring, for many many of us that equals enjoyment ...to each her own
Case in point. I started playing again in November after a long break. Made a new character and started fresh. Took me 4 days to get to 61. Ive been at 70 for 90% of my play time since I came back. I've already gotten past the point where any of the dungeons I can queue for are worth running. I really DID enjoy my time at 70 so far, but there's no where else to go. Adding more leveling dungeons and a new Castle Never that is still just Tier 2 is weak. We need something past all that. GG devs. Lights out for neverwinter it seems.
You dont get it. First we will have to get all the boons, mounts, boosts and stuff, so every class can solo every dungeon, then the Devs will see, that we are done with it and give us new dungeons. Sadly only the GWFs were up to the task so far.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
All I can say is that I am greatly ashamed to play to know I am associated with, by virtue of playing the game, the kind of people who whine and moan over nothing.
-"WAAA!!! we want to get stronger and have harder content!" Cryptic releases a higher level cap to allow for stronger monsters and skrims/dungeons. -"WAAA!!! Getting to 70 and end game is too hard!" Cryptic releases Underdark which gives people the Dwarven King storyline to fill in some of the gap, and drow armor, which is easy to get, and is some of the best armor in the game. -"WAAA!!! the 60-70 grind is still to much we hate having to do vigilance quests still!" Cryptic makes the 60-70 grind even easier with the upcoming Maze Engine module. -"WAAA!!! CRYPTIC DOESN'T CARE ABOUT US AND ISN'T LISTENING TO WHAT WE WANT!!!!" despite the fact everything from module 6-9 has been about doing what lots of people asked for.
To be honest, you people are abominable, and make the infamously whiny Star Trek Online crowd look tame by comparison. If any of you think what Cryptic is doing is bad, or going to kill the game, you should go take a look at other MMOs, they are FAR FAR worse, by miles.
I have played a lot of other MMO's recently, with the hope that 1 of them will hook me on, have nice endgame, a decent community and be a place I can move on to. I originally got snagged on NWO because of the combat system, I stayed because of the friends and communities I became a part of. With each module, those communities get smaller due to the lack of challenging endgame content, when mod 6 came along, I was one of the people who was fine with the difficulty. When the difficulty got toned down, I was one of the people complaining it should be left as is. To be honest, I DON'T CARE about the leveling process from 0-70, or the content available to new players, I care about endgame and that is what the devs should be focused on as well. Why? well, because 99% of this game is level 70, only 1% of it is level 0-69. It takes a new, casual player like 2 weeks to hit 70, then endgame starts. Those who aren't willing to stick through the grind from 0-70, will not be willing to stick through the grind at level 70.
The people who spend money on this game aren't the ones below level 70, its the ones at level 70, those are the ones you need to market the game to, those are the ones you need to retain. Dyes,transmutes? A new player won't be spending money on those until they are hooked into the game. Campaign unlocks? Meaningless to someone below level 70. Coalescent wards? Same as campaign unlocks. Respec tokens? people aren't going to buy these until level 70, when they working on their builds. Race rerolls? most people are happy with their race unless they are min/maxing, which occurs at level 70. Lockboxes? Appeals to people with a taste of gambling who know the value of the items in the lockboxes, new players do not.
In order to keep money in the system, you need to keep older players around, which means they need something to do. Gathering power purely for the sake of having it with nothing that requires the power...that is just killing off the game.
WHAT!? No epic ones!? That is the biggest slap to the face. You have any idea how easy and boring the 3-man dungeons are? How does it take months to tweak and release easy fillers that already existed in the first place? You may as well not bother bringing them back.
To you easy is boring, for many many of us that equals enjoyment ...to each her own
If you find the 3-man dungeons hard, just quit the game, it's not for you.
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zekethesinnerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 805Arc User
edited February 2016
What a sad joke.
From the other hand if new epic dung would be next sad variation of t2 dung, i will pass on this too.
Exacltly. theFabricant is right. I understand that Neverwinter needs to pull in new shiny players so its profits grow so that it can continue to exist in the form that it does, but the majority of large dollar amounts being spent on this game, are most likely not from new players still leveling. Adding in tier 3 with epic versions of the upcoming mod9 dungeons, would give people at end game an actual reason to use all the super gear they have, and this would motivate them to spend more money on zen/AD. Personally I am not the best geared player by a long shot, but my motivation for thinking about spending money on the game, was coming from the idea that I wanted to get my ilevel and gear to an even higher quality. But after learning that mod9 adds no reason at all for such high ilevel, I'm not gonna be spending anything at all. Sigh.
Every single one, bar none, I have ever played, has had this EXACT same conversation every other expansion/content release.
There is no possible way to make "endgame" in MMOs not terrible because there is A. No way to churn out new end game dungeons in such a time-frame that people get new content before they have run the old content 1,000 times and gotten bored of it.
B. Despite what you think, endgame is not all the devs should care about, because they have to constantly draw new players in order to keep their numbers up, and new players dont like being told "all the cool HAMSTER is only available way down the line" they like to be told, "hey, here is some stuff pretty early on, or at least before the big grind" thats really cool and new".
C. Keeping old players around does not ensure people spend money. STO's playerbase, old and new, hate spending money on the game because they realize, like most everyone else, that all the stuff for have to pay for is of such trivial power increase, and costs so much, that its not in their best interest to ever spend money on the game. In fact, old players are the LEAST likely to spend money on the game because they know all the tricks to get around spending money to get better gear, while new players do not, and are thus more susceptible to buying stuff they wouldn't otherwise have had they known the secrets of the game.
These are the same broken arguments I've heard for over a decade now, over dozens of MMOs, from the same small vocal minority of people who think that just because they reached the end of the game, and wasted so many hours of their lives grinding for 4K+ IL, all new content should be focused around them and them alone, and everyone else should just go away.
Devs have never listened to those people, and never will, because its not in their best interest too, and all the DOOM! saying those people preach has been proven objectively false times beyond counting.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the reason why Cryptic don't get rid of the bots is because half the instances in the game will be deserted as bots and gold spammers make up half the playerbase.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Every single one, bar none, I have ever played, has had this EXACT same conversation every other expansion/content release.
There is no possible way to make "endgame" in MMOs not terrible because there is A. No way to churn out new end game dungeons in such a time-frame that people get new content before they have run the old content 1,000 times and gotten bored of it.
B. Despite what you think, endgame is not all the devs should care about, because they have to constantly draw new players in order to keep their numbers up, and new players dont like being told "all the cool HAMSTER is only available way down the line" they like to be told, "hey, here is some stuff pretty early on, or at least before the big grind" thats really cool and new".
C. Keeping old players around does not ensure people spend money. STO's playerbase, old and new, hate spending money on the game because they realize, like most everyone else, that all the stuff for have to pay for is of such trivial power increase, and costs so much, that its not in their best interest to ever spend money on the game. In fact, old players are the LEAST likely to spend money on the game because they know all the tricks to get around spending money to get better gear, while new players do not, and are thus more susceptible to buying stuff they wouldn't otherwise have had they known the secrets of the game.
These are the same broken arguments I've heard for over a decade now, over dozens of MMOs, from the same small vocal minority of people who think that just because they reached the end of the game, and wasted so many hours of their lives grinding for 4K+ IL, all new content should be focused around them and them alone, and everyone else should just go away.
Devs have never listened to those people, and never will, because its not in their best interest too, and all the DOOM! saying those people preach has been proven objectively false times beyond counting.
Except other MMO's and online games have at least 1 or 2 dungeons or raids that are aimed at those people who do reach endgame, just to keep them interested. Here, there is nothing. I will use an example from another online game I play a lot, PoE, it is not an MMORPG, its more like diablo, but the point is, that right at the very end of all the games content, there are then 3 tier 15 maps (the highest and hardest tier) which hardly anyone ever does out of the general population of the game. They exist for that 1/2% that are at endgame, who do push beyond level 93 there, who are looking for a challenge. Most of the content in the game is not that difficult and is accessible for everyone, but the point is, there is a tier for everyone there. Here, there is a point that once you reach, there is no longer any content aimed for you, none, whatsoever and guess what, once those of us who are at this point finally move on, this game is dead. I stick around because my friends are here, but every mod more and more leave. You can measure the health of a game by the amount of theorycrafting/ player interest there is in the game. The players who most avidly support/advertise the game aren't the casual new players, its the old players who have invested time into the game.
Heck, this game is over once you reach 2.5k ilvl, there is a whole 1.7k above that where there are people with no content for them to play. You don't even need 4k for this game to be trivial, 3k will do that already.
Somtaawkha, you blew what theFabricant said, way out of proportion. The point isnt that Devs should focus on content only for max level, or content for overtuned ilevel 4000 players. But most of what you said is hogwash. Content needs to be mapped out through analysis of the player base for an MMO. In short, there needs to be content for everyone.
Yes sure, you are right, that in no way, will the devs ever be able to churn out enough end game content for people to always have something new. Thats not what anyone is saying. But the content thats been provided since mod 6 is light in scale with a wishy-washy endgame. Strongholds are cool, and a well thought out (imo) time sink that can provide some top of the line gear. Underdark added some cool skirmishes that required lower ilvl to grind out gear that rivals protectors seal gear, and added Demo and eDemo for an endgame event to farm. But the problem remains that for 3 mods now, they have given us an easier and easier way to hop on the item treadmill and grow far far stronger than any content in the game.
As I stated, there needs to be content for everyone of all play styles. But it also needs to make sense. If you are leaving the majority of your end game players with an easier and easier way to get top tier gear, and then, after several updates, fail to provide them with any incentive to use said gear, you've got a problem on hand.
And I dont agree that old players are least likely to spend money. Id say that they just need motivation to do so.
Comments
I also feel disappointed and deceived.
From a professional who completes personal development plans for colleagues...you have so far not met your core standards as mods and devs. I would like your seniors to have a voice on these forums not just people with excuses.
Tab
Tabatha@rotters // Scourge Warlock // Co Leader // Civil Anarchy
We are looking for non elitist guilds to join our alliance.
I remember way back when you guys doubted our words when we told you that Traven was too hard. You ignored us when we said that there was an ArPen bug that destroyed the whole party. I know there are a lot of devs who play the game and hide in plain slight. I know that you like to have the pot stirred... yet you have no concept of what is going on in the game.
Time to go back to the drawing board and come up with something better. Keep your fricking dungeons... until you give us what we asked for and we were promised. Your lies and double-talk will not serve you where you have no believers. We want to believe you but we know you have lied and dragged your feet when you got caught. Remove the comment all you want. I SPEAK THE TRUTH as always
So have such a powerful tool for "infinite content" just kind of fade away is... incomprehensible to me.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
Quite simply put, this is false advertising and predatory market tactics at work, that entire blog post should either be rewritten, or taken down.
Don't show someone something unless it is ready to go... and it is something that they are looking for. You guys strive to be UPOD, yet you over-achieve and deliver OPUD.
UPOD... Under Promise Over Deliver
OPUD... Over Promise Under Deliver
If this game was not initially phenomenal... it and Cryptic would have gone bankrupt already. How do I know that... I have opened successful businesses and restaurants... I have opened unsuccessful businesses and restaurants. So I know what works and I know what wont work.
Offering substandard follow thru after you delivered an amazing product... disrespects the initial offering.
I always wanted to believe that Cryptic was really desiring to be a successful business.
To put is like this... in the 80's, one of the Big 3 said they had the most amazing vehicle that would be coming out in the future. They puffed it up and pushed the K-car like it was the best vehicle since the invention of the wheel. It was one of the worst vehicles to ever be released by a car company. The issue is that this car company thought they knew what the people were looking for... and they were wrong.
This is about market research... research what your market wants and offer something in a subdued manner and knock their socks off when it comes out.
was so very exicited to see "dungeons" coming back..
was so very exicted to see them as 3 man leveling dungeons, as it was sorely needed..
was so DISAPPOINTED to see that only CN would be the new epic run. No new 5 man epics. I hate running T2's now. Have run ETOS, EGWD, and ECC ad nauseum. Have run EDemo enough times to glomm twisted main hand. not sure I grind it more to get the offhand.
My apologies, but the plans for the new dungeons stinketh, from the perspective of an endgame player.
Again, my apologies for being a bit blunt.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1211758/do-you-want-epic-or-leveling-dungeons
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
not like i dont agree but these are their plans for mod 9 and its kinda late to change anything.
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
- You removed our dungeons for like a year.... and brought them back as leveling 3 mans? what player base said to do this?
- You said if they spend all their time fixing old mistakes, they can't work on new content ....
WE DONT WANT NEW CONTENT. If you would once and for all fix all of the bugs in the old content. Granted it might take more than a full mod to do so. Your game would be multitudes better. The more you guys force out new content like CN without any player feedback, the more you will get 85-88% negative feedback. I mean the only testing we got for CN was alpha and you didn't change anything. You said all these dungeons are coming in an announcement and no one said as leveling dungeons. We know you said that to avoid a rage, but now it is out and you guys really need to explain yourselves.
Please... As one of the few vets left in this game. Why have you guys stopped listening to the players? Why would you admit to not working on broken things so you can push out new content? Why would you in any right mind at all think that releasing our old favorites as leveling dungeons would satisfy anyone at all? Tiamat, sure.... Epic demo, sure.... They aren't the dungeons that built this game. They are zergs.... The first dungeons released required teamwork, strategy, no Oathbound immunity button, and healers who could heal, tanks to tank, and everyone else better dodge or they are dead. It wasn't all one shots, so healers could actually heal. We had sets to stack together like high viz, high general, war prophets, you name it. But... we had like 4k power.. and 24k hp lol... so the power creep/grap wasn't as insanely huge as it is now.
- I know I say a lot of sarcastic things. But if you guys truly do not want to lose this game you are going to have to listen to the players here. over 85% of the population wants the old CN back. Literally copy/paste it in and increase levels caps to some insanely high level and make no dailies usable or no OP's allowed in it and you officially have the hardest dungeon back in the game. People didn't quit when they couldn't do a dungeon, they worked harder to learn how. You are all afraid if you fix OP's to where their binding oath works as intended, or divine protector can't build up AP during its active time that people will leave. No, they will use a GF who has to get his daily up and use KV when he needs it and actually takes some skill. They will adapt. Not being able to win doesn't make people quit. It makes them learn how. Give us a challenge.... G
Lastly, just give the players what they want. We have seen what you want. And mod 6-8 have been some of the most disappointing mods to date, with more players leaving than ever before nearly entirely do to dev decisions and poor communication. I'm sure a lot of the bridges are burned, but if you guys just listened to us ONCE, you could bring a lot of them back.
https://www.theholycrusaders.com/
https://www.theholycrusaders.com/
https://www.theholycrusaders.com/
-"WAAA!!! we want to get stronger and have harder content!" Cryptic releases a higher level cap to allow for stronger monsters and skrims/dungeons.
-"WAAA!!! Getting to 70 and end game is too hard!" Cryptic releases Underdark which gives people the Dwarven King storyline to fill in some of the gap, and drow armor, which is easy to get, and is some of the best armor in the game.
-"WAAA!!! the 60-70 grind is still to much we hate having to do vigilance quests still!" Cryptic makes the 60-70 grind even easier with the upcoming Maze Engine module.
-"WAAA!!! CRYPTIC DOESN'T CARE ABOUT US AND ISN'T LISTENING TO WHAT WE WANT!!!!" despite the fact everything from module 6-9 has been about doing what lots of people asked for.
To be honest, you people are abominable, and make the infamously whiny Star Trek Online crowd look tame by comparison. If any of you think what Cryptic is doing is bad, or going to kill the game, you should go take a look at other MMOs, they are FAR FAR worse, by miles.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Anyway, based on the Karrundax we have now, even as leveling dungeon it seems really underpowered and a complete faceroll, unless maybe you get the worst possible party composition with all green gear.
The people who spend money on this game aren't the ones below level 70, its the ones at level 70, those are the ones you need to market the game to, those are the ones you need to retain. Dyes,transmutes? A new player won't be spending money on those until they are hooked into the game. Campaign unlocks? Meaningless to someone below level 70. Coalescent wards? Same as campaign unlocks. Respec tokens? people aren't going to buy these until level 70, when they working on their builds. Race rerolls? most people are happy with their race unless they are min/maxing, which occurs at level 70. Lockboxes? Appeals to people with a taste of gambling who know the value of the items in the lockboxes, new players do not.
In order to keep money in the system, you need to keep older players around, which means they need something to do. Gathering power purely for the sake of having it with nothing that requires the power...that is just killing off the game.
From the other hand if new epic dung would be next sad variation of t2 dung, i will pass on this too.
(Sin)cerely
Kain
Adding in tier 3 with epic versions of the upcoming mod9 dungeons, would give people at end game an actual reason to use all the super gear they have, and this would motivate them to spend more money on zen/AD.
Personally I am not the best geared player by a long shot, but my motivation for thinking about spending money on the game, was coming from the idea that I wanted to get my ilevel and gear to an even higher quality. But after learning that mod9 adds no reason at all for such high ilevel, I'm not gonna be spending anything at all. Sigh.
Every single one, bar none, I have ever played, has had this EXACT same conversation every other expansion/content release.
There is no possible way to make "endgame" in MMOs not terrible because there is
A. No way to churn out new end game dungeons in such a time-frame that people get new content before they have run the old content 1,000 times and gotten bored of it.
B. Despite what you think, endgame is not all the devs should care about, because they have to constantly draw new players in order to keep their numbers up, and new players dont like being told "all the cool HAMSTER is only available way down the line" they like to be told, "hey, here is some stuff pretty early on, or at least before the big grind" thats really cool and new".
C. Keeping old players around does not ensure people spend money. STO's playerbase, old and new, hate spending money on the game because they realize, like most everyone else, that all the stuff for have to pay for is of such trivial power increase, and costs so much, that its not in their best interest to ever spend money on the game. In fact, old players are the LEAST likely to spend money on the game because they know all the tricks to get around spending money to get better gear, while new players do not, and are thus more susceptible to buying stuff they wouldn't otherwise have had they known the secrets of the game.
These are the same broken arguments I've heard for over a decade now, over dozens of MMOs, from the same small vocal minority of people who think that just because they reached the end of the game, and wasted so many hours of their lives grinding for 4K+ IL, all new content should be focused around them and them alone, and everyone else should just go away.
Devs have never listened to those people, and never will, because its not in their best interest too, and all the DOOM! saying those people preach has been proven objectively false times beyond counting.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Heck, this game is over once you reach 2.5k ilvl, there is a whole 1.7k above that where there are people with no content for them to play. You don't even need 4k for this game to be trivial, 3k will do that already.
Yes sure, you are right, that in no way, will the devs ever be able to churn out enough end game content for people to always have something new. Thats not what anyone is saying. But the content thats been provided since mod 6 is light in scale with a wishy-washy endgame. Strongholds are cool, and a well thought out (imo) time sink that can provide some top of the line gear. Underdark added some cool skirmishes that required lower ilvl to grind out gear that rivals protectors seal gear, and added Demo and eDemo for an endgame event to farm. But the problem remains that for 3 mods now, they have given us an easier and easier way to hop on the item treadmill and grow far far stronger than any content in the game.
As I stated, there needs to be content for everyone of all play styles. But it also needs to make sense. If you are leaving the majority of your end game players with an easier and easier way to get top tier gear, and then, after several updates, fail to provide them with any incentive to use said gear, you've got a problem on hand.
And I dont agree that old players are least likely to spend money. Id say that they just need motivation to do so.