1 - Smoke is stationary and anyone with a bit of timing can remove themselves from it before it takes effect or at the worst suffer only 1 second of it. It has no effect upon ranged attacks and the TR can be pushed out from within its confines. Shadow on the other hand is not bound by these restrictions and the duration can also be longer than smoke if the TR makes no offensive actions. I consider shadow more of a defensive pause mechanism where smoke as an area control.
Yes, Smoke bomb Its stationary but, usually, on those situations, TR should have his/her stealth bar ready to use it as a "safeward" mechanism just in case that Smoke miss (which is not so often). Shadow Strike, on the other hand and using your own situation, should be used from stealth to get a real "profit" from it.
This was one reason I felt that shadow strike should not have been buffed from 1 second daze to 4 second daze and that is because there is only one TR that can make use of that daze and that is the saboteur (and specifically in light of the fact that they made shadow strike to not proc the capstone).
The executioner uses stealth to generate its damage bonus and to abandon that for the daze is inherently against the entire point of choosing the exe -- although I suppose one could do it in an emergency survival situation.
The scoundrel uses stealth the least of all and will generally not have stealth previous to a use of shadow strike except at the start of a fight and then it would be odd to waste it in that way. Additionally the scoundrel capstone if up would proc on a stealthed shadow strike and turn the 4 second daze into a 2 second daze and we can easily see why that is a terrible thing to do.
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seventhpillarMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
1 - This was one reason I felt that shadow strike should not have been buffed from 1 second daze to 4 second daze and that is because there is only one TR that can make use of that daze and that is the saboteur (and specifically in light of the fact that they made shadow strike to not proc the capstone).
2 - The executioner uses stealth to generate its damage bonus and to abandon that for the daze is inherently against the entire point of choosing the exe -- although I suppose one could do it in an emergency survival situation.
3 - The scoundrel uses stealth the least of all and will generally not have stealth previous to a use of shadow strike except at the start of a fight and then it would be odd to waste it in that way. Additionally the scoundrel capstone if up would proc on a stealthed shadow strike and turn the 4 second daze into a 2 second daze and we can easily see why that is a terrible thing to do.
1 - Then, you are against "perma stealth" i take? Because i am not. I am against the fact that "Perma stealth" can do that abussive amount of damage out from Shadowy opportunity and Lostmauth set . For me, the only good thing that Shadow strike brings up to the TR is the fact that, even on "miss" (this is "on dodge situation"), stealth bar is refilled.
2 - Yes, thats why i enter in stealthed, do my rotation, use Smoke bomb to deal more damage and get more stealth thanks to GC and leave combat when the bar is full (Which usually happends after 3 GC hits) . Your "Daze" situation and mine are the same as you can read the only difference is the power we use.
3 - I cant talk about "scoundrels" because it is my less played path. I just used it back on mod 5, when i could daze my target for almost 15 straight secs. After the necessary nerf on that, i "discarted" it because i find funnier to play Exec.
I would like to take your posts seriously but...
Sounds like the only role you want the TR to be is a node troll. Oh, let me troll around and not kill something. I rather trade all that and give me higher damage and just use stealth to ambush my opponent. Like the "assassin" class that it's suppose to be.
Point in case, in one of your posts but I cannot find the thread anymore, you had a beef against DF. I mean really? The at-will that's in your face and away from stealth but no, you rather troll with GC. Funny how that is isn't?
Based on your post, I can only attribute you to as a TRoll. Explains why your knowledge about the class is lacking and sometimes your complaints about it are humorous.
1 - This was one reason I felt that shadow strike should not have been buffed from 1 second daze to 4 second daze and that is because there is only one TR that can make use of that daze and that is the saboteur (and specifically in light of the fact that they made shadow strike to not proc the capstone).
2 - The executioner uses stealth to generate its damage bonus and to abandon that for the daze is inherently against the entire point of choosing the exe -- although I suppose one could do it in an emergency survival situation.
3 - The scoundrel uses stealth the least of all and will generally not have stealth previous to a use of shadow strike except at the start of a fight and then it would be odd to waste it in that way. Additionally the scoundrel capstone if up would proc on a stealthed shadow strike and turn the 4 second daze into a 2 second daze and we can easily see why that is a terrible thing to do.
1 - Then, you are against "perma stealth" i take? Because i am not. I am against the fact that "Perma stealth" can do that abussive amount of damage out from Shadowy opportunity and Lostmauth set . For me, the only good thing that Shadow strike brings up to the TR is the fact that, even on "miss" (this is "on dodge situation"), stealth bar is refilled.
2 - Yes, thats why i enter in stealthed, do my rotation, use Smoke bomb to deal more damage and get more stealth thanks to GC and leave combat when the bar is full (Which usually happends after 3 GC hits) . Your "Daze" situation and mine are the same as you can read the only difference is the power we use.
3 - I cant talk about "scoundrels" because it is my less played path. I just used it back on mod 5, when i could daze my target for almost 15 straight secs. After the necessary nerf on that, i "discarted" it because i find funnier to play Exec.
As in your case it is the damage of the perma stealth TR that I am against and particular the ease of play for that path with the current situations. But regarding shadow strike, there was never any reason to buff it's daze to 4 seconds as it was one of the more effective powers (at what it does) in its state before the buff.
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seventhpillarMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
1 - Sounds like the only role you want the TR to be is a node troll. Oh, let me troll around and not kill something. I rather trade all that and give me higher damage and just use stealth to ambush my opponent. Like the "assassin" class that it's suppose to be.
2 - Point in case, in one of your posts but I cannot find the thread anymore, you had a beef against DF. I mean really? The at-will that's in your face and away from stealth but no, you rather troll with GC. Funny how that is isn't?
3 - Based on your post, I can only attribute you to as a TRoll. Explains why your knowledge about the class is lacking and sometimes your complaints about it are humorous.
1 - Just out of curiosity, from where did you got that wrong and BS idea? because that statement of yours and what i said or want for TRs has nothing in common.
2 - My only "complains" about DF was back when Red glyph had not ICD and i wanted a nerf for the glyph, not for DF. The other thing i said for DF was when some players stated that TR class was useless back on mod5 (XDDDD) and said "yes, poor Trs need piercing damage on DF too". So, maybe, you are mistaken me with someone else or mixed what i said because it was long time ago. (The only real complaint about DF i did was vs GWF and is the fact that GWF cant either dodge or out-run it. But, on this sense, is a complain about "GWF's mechanic", not about DF or its bleed or its damage.)
3 - For me, it seems like its the other way around: most of you cant admit that "some non-TR-Players" (in this case) can know a different thing about your own class than yourselves, main TR-players whose explored it at its "max" (notice quotes).
As in your case it is the damage of the perma stealth TR that I am against and particular the ease of play for that path with the current situations. But regarding shadow strike, there was never any reason to buff it's daze to 4 seconds as it was one of the more effective powers (at what it does) in its state before the buff.
Well, i told you earlier that if you want to have better damage on Shadow Strike in exchange of half your daze, i cant argue about that because its an encounter i do not use at all.
1 - No that is based on collective post that I have read from you, based on rotations and choices of at-wills and believe that perma stealth is fine.
2 - Oh so the gwf couldn't outrun DF and you have a complaint on it but here we are a TR facetanking a gwf and that's a problem? So in your mind, it's much better to hide and seek and GC him all over the place. Wow nice concept there.
3. The problem is you think none of us have explored the options you are presenting, however, we know for a fact that the ones you are pushing are not optimal when it comes to actual competitive combat. I can't even count the amount of times I re-spec'd to test things out. Then again, a guy part-timing a TR and maining a class that hates the TR most seems to know better than anyone.
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seventhpillarMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
1 - No that is based on collective post that I have read from you, based on rotations and choices of at-wills and believe that perma stealth is fine.
2 - Oh so the gwf couldn't outrun DF and you have a complaint on it but here we are a TR facetanking a gwf and that's a problem? So in your mind, it's much better to hide and seek and GC him all over the place. Wow nice concept there.
3. The problem is you think none of us have explored the options you are presenting, however, we know for a fact that the ones you are pushing are not optimal when it comes to actual competitive combat. I can't even count the amount of times I re-spec'd to test things out. Then again, a guy part-timing a TR and maining a class that hates the TR most seems to know better than anyone.
1 - Why is not fine? For me, its another way to play the class and would be really funny... but not with S.E., Lostmauth set and Shadowy Opportunity running wild as they are right now. (I already explained this a lot of times, you can search for this if you want) . And, again, what you stated about me has 0 in common with everything i said so far.
2 - A: Er... are you saying, then, that a class with 20 000% on deflection chance which can deflect even CC effects is fine? (I will not talk about your "TR facetanking a GWF" comment, sorry. )
B: Yes, "hide and seek" is a better way to play rather than "1-shot S.E. bypassing all defenses OR, after first hit, free 50k crit damage hit each 15 or 20 secs". If you dont like it, because you enjoy better a "straight fight" instead of "TACTICAL FIGHTS", then, not my problem. (Already explained this too)
3 - I think that you didnt explore the class as much as you think or state, because of things like this:
"we know for a fact that the ones you are pushing are not optimal when it comes to actual competitive combat"
But someone outside of your "private Tr guild" is saying "well, i work with these other encounters and they work fine for me even vs top geared players in GG" and you all are calling him (on my case, but can be a "she" too) "troll" because "you are not using our rotation/build or you dont main TR-class, so you dont know how to play it correctly (on second case, i can agree with that statement) ".
As a funny side note, Rayrdan posted a video from Mjolnir fighting a TR where you all can see how useful Smoke bomb can be if used on the right time yet you all are still arguing about "a non-TR-player telling us that XXXX encounter is better than we though. He is wrong for sure" instead of checking it again.
First and foremost, before you include me in the private TR build, you should know that the private TR guild you are speaking of are those who like to "hide and seek". Sporting high INT or high recovery. These are the same ones who slots SS or any stealth based encounters vs. damage encounters and oftentimes slot lashing coupled with first strike. Oh that is fun isn't it? IIRC you also slot lashing.
Now for reference sake, I use smoke bomb, dazing strike and ITC. Now before you get your panties in a bunch about ITC, my playstyle is brawl and I am MI/Exe. Yes I come up and brawl upfront with DF and I use stealth to power up my attacks. Do I come short against perma when it comes to similar gear? Yes because the whole time they are just running away hiding in stealth while CoS and BB when their high AP gain comes up. So in your point of view, the cowardly CoS/BB or Lurker's is a better way? I have also seen ones where they GC you and run all over the place and I believe that's where you like to be. Me, on the other hand I would rather power up my attacks with stealth, deflect damage upfront with ITC and CB them and smoke. You will see me when you fight me instead of getting hit from god knows where. And here we are, you say I belong to this private TR guild. Nicely done .
Greetings adventurers! Thank you for your all posts and constructive feedback We will think about it in module 15 and maybe do something in module 20, now enjoy to make 24k ad making whole f.... day daily missions in this laggy valley of sorrows. Your Beloved- CRAPTIC.
Thank you
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icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
did u guys check out the steath reveal ring in the next mod...
1 - No, i didnt even meant those TRolls. When i said "TR guild" i meant "players whose only play TR-class all time and all day long". So, my apologies for this mistake. BTW, you here did a good point, but its already explained and thats why im against ItC granting 20 000% to deflection chance, together with other facts.
Funny. My main is a TR but that doesn't mean that's the only toon I have that I PVP with. I have a CW, SW, GF and GWF that I PVP with that has "last gen" gear meaning no lionsmane but elemental items. The reason being is that I cannot keep up with the astromical cost to keep them all high geared but doesn't mean I pigeon hole myself to one class. So either way, I am not part of the exclusive to one class "guild" you attributed me to.
Back to topic, bring back stealth reveal on attack, change SE to physical damage and buff TR's base damage and give them additional damage multipliers then you will see many players will transition away from the 1 shot and perma coward playstyle. It's amazing with the amount of brokeness surrounding PVP, people still and always will cry about nerfing the rogue and when the guys the main TRs bring up alternatives to conpensate with things that others want taken, a lot will still complain about the suggestion. You can seriously tell the ones with hidden agendas by saying this class is broken but my class is not (e.g. gwf) stating our damage is fine, it's the gear blah blah blah. Oh its about the stacks or what not etc etc yet deep down when you look at it, it is broken to some degree but no. You have to admit to some degree that the gwf does way too much damage, stacks or not. My gwf doesn't have lostmouth set but still does ridiculous amount of damage and I can only imagine once I get a full set on it.
did u guys check out the steath reveal ring in the next mod...
I don't play a stealth rogue fortunately so they don't bother me. My GWF's are really afraid of the rings of binding though (the ones that prevent unstoppable). They need to have a ring of anti magic so the casters can share in the fun.
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seventhpillarMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
So next mod there will be rings that prevent unstoppable and reveal stealth (class mechanics)?
So we have stamina drain that takes away the footwork part and dodging part of combat. Next will be no class mechanic for some classes. Devs wamt combat to be turned into 2 guys standing still and hitting each others to death?
So next mod there will be rings that prevent unstoppable and reveal stealth (class mechanics)?
So we have stamina drain that takes away the footwork part and dodging part of combat. Next will be no class mechanic for some classes. Devs wamt combat to be turned into 2 guys standing still and hitting each others to death?
oops I was joking about the rings that prevent unstoppable (least I think I am joking as who knows how the devs think as they seem to want to make it hard on melee and easy on casters). I just used that to better put into context the see stealth ones.
revovlerjesus1 said: You are very very wrong. The Debuff rings are broken beyond anything, its removes EVERYTHING, all buffs all elixirs and OPs bubble, Feytouch etc. I have not been able to test everything yet. But my best guess its affecting the most. Or maybe this is a good thing in the end, so players dont need to pot up like crazy anymore, but its gamechanging for sure.
hawkfr said: Yeah, that's what I said, it might be good if it does remove everything, but if you didn't test it, (I still didn't myself), we cannot judge right now ^^ if it does as you say remove everything then yeah maybe, but remember it's only every minute. So in 60s you have the time to recast your bubble, to attack 1 more time to get your feytouch bonus ...
edit: Ok I've tested, The ring of Natural order does remove the DP. So I don't think it'll break pvp, but it'll add new strats and way to win ( and maybe it's good as it brings a way to remove perma bubble in pvp )
It's pure nonsense in my opinion. Instead of piling up new gamebreaking effects and items, they should focus on balancing classes. Instead they add more HAMSTER that in the end will bring new interactions with new elements of the game they 100% didn't test or intended to introduce.
They are overcomplicating an unbalanced mode (PvP) without balancing it first. You add new strategies when the existing ones are already balalnced.
But oh well, their choice. Nullify stamina (drain), nullify stealth, nullify self buffs...it's seriously ridiculous.
I don't like it one bit. They must balance classes, not add more HAMSTER and unbalanced items.
It's pure nonsense in my opinion. Instead of piling up new gamebreaking effects and items, they should focus on balancing classes. Instead they add more HAMSTER that in the end will bring new interactions with new elements of the game they 100% didn't test or intended to introduce.
They are overcomplicating an unbalanced mode (PvP) without balancing it first. You add new strategies when the existing ones are already balalnced.
But oh well, their choice. Nullify stamina (drain), nullify stealth, nullify self buffs...it's seriously ridiculous.
I don't like it one bit. They must balance classes, not add more HAMSTER and unbalanced items.
balance is not possible any more 8k SH boon, 4k mount who wants to join PVP in a game that throws you in one pit with maxed chars? right now i met a maxed CW in dom allways asked myself why she does not get damaged at all, looked up for her defense looked up for her deflect...hm none but hey 164k HP lol, thats the solution for my headache
Worse yet, Someone told me that some rings can remove all BUFFs from struck targets... This is, not just unstop, but all our stacks from Destroyer's purpose or Focused destroyer... So, we will be back into uselessness on PvP.
Wow that is just dumb. I am sure that with all the player feedback advising them of how foolish and unwanted this is that they will come to their sense...oh never mind this is cryptic we are talking about and I am sure they will have it bugged to chain proc and reapply every 10 seconds.
What is next, "The ring of wonders" that procs "Wondrous Transformative Force" (or WTF for short) that randomly swaps out the slotted powers of your target?
Wow, the comments here are about as bad as the pvp game it self in this game. You hypocrites HAMSTER so much about tr it funny. You will never balance pvp here at all unless you take it upon your self to do so with having rules in play for combat and having honor behind it. This is a pve game that cannot be fixed once you add more and more gear and more and more mounts with bonuses it impossible to fix. Since when is one class supposed to be the same as another class. Ask your self this do you play legit. Unlikely, I say this with humor most are to stupid to know they are doing and the ones that due exploit the heck out of it and thinks it all good because way the codes were written. Get a life go outside and enjoy the world before you die.
I start to thinking the Devs do not know, what a 1-Shot means..
So basically a single Player is able to kill you with one Single 1-Hit, they have the possibility to burn down All your HP immediately to Zero, For example around ~130,000 HP instantly to zero! (without caring about what gear do u have, what enchantments do u use or what a kind of defense do u have..)
So my question is, for what do we have a combat system when pressing 1-Button is enough to kill an enemy player? Combat.. you think,it can still be called so?
..
<::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
this thread adds so much positive to pvp discussion. lets keep it going
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icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
Yup, once you know TR's movements and with about 150k HP, TR become less a problem. Both me and Sophi have been doing very well fighting most of the TRs including the BiS onces, the only ones we have trouble with are the BiS+Skilled ones, which I can count with just my fingers
Comments
The executioner uses stealth to generate its damage bonus and to abandon that for the daze is inherently against the entire point of choosing the exe -- although I suppose one could do it in an emergency survival situation.
The scoundrel uses stealth the least of all and will generally not have stealth previous to a use of shadow strike except at the start of a fight and then it would be odd to waste it in that way. Additionally the scoundrel capstone if up would proc on a stealthed shadow strike and turn the 4 second daze into a 2 second daze and we can easily see why that is a terrible thing to do.
Sounds like the only role you want the TR to be is a node troll. Oh, let me troll around and not kill something. I rather trade all that and give me higher damage and just use stealth to ambush my opponent. Like the "assassin" class that it's suppose to be.
Point in case, in one of your posts but I cannot find the thread anymore, you had a beef against DF. I mean really? The at-will that's in your face and away from stealth but no, you rather troll with GC. Funny how that is isn't?
Based on your post, I can only attribute you to as a TRoll. Explains why your knowledge about the class is lacking and sometimes your complaints about it are humorous.
2 - Oh so the gwf couldn't outrun DF and you have a complaint on it but here we are a TR facetanking a gwf and that's a problem? So in your mind, it's much better to hide and seek and GC him all over the place. Wow nice concept there.
3. The problem is you think none of us have explored the options you are presenting, however, we know for a fact that the ones you are pushing are not optimal when it comes to actual competitive combat. I can't even count the amount of times I re-spec'd to test things out. Then again, a guy part-timing a TR and maining a class that hates the TR most seems to know better than anyone.
As a funny side note, Rayrdan posted a video from Mjolnir fighting a TR where you all can see how useful Smoke bomb can be if used on the right time yet you all are still arguing about "a non-TR-player telling us that XXXX encounter is better than we though. He is wrong for sure" instead of checking it again.
First and foremost, before you include me in the private TR build, you should know that the private TR guild you are speaking of are those who like to "hide and seek". Sporting high INT or high recovery. These are the same ones who slots SS or any stealth based encounters vs. damage encounters and oftentimes slot lashing coupled with first strike. Oh that is fun isn't it? IIRC you also slot lashing.
Now for reference sake, I use smoke bomb, dazing strike and ITC. Now before you get your panties in a bunch about ITC, my playstyle is brawl and I am MI/Exe. Yes I come up and brawl upfront with DF and I use stealth to power up my attacks. Do I come short against perma when it comes to similar gear? Yes because the whole time they are just running away hiding in stealth while CoS and BB when their high AP gain comes up. So in your point of view, the cowardly CoS/BB or Lurker's is a better way? I have also seen ones where they GC you and run all over the place and I believe that's where you like to be. Me, on the other hand I would rather power up my attacks with stealth, deflect damage upfront with ITC and CB them and smoke. You will see me when you fight me instead of getting hit from god knows where. And here we are, you say I belong to this private TR guild. Nicely done .
Thank you for your all posts and constructive feedback
We will think about it in module 15 and maybe do something in module 20, now enjoy to make 24k ad making whole f.... day daily missions in this laggy valley of sorrows.
Your Beloved- CRAPTIC.
Thank you
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
Back to topic, bring back stealth reveal on attack, change SE to physical damage and buff TR's base damage and give them additional damage multipliers then you will see many players will transition away from the 1 shot and perma coward playstyle. It's amazing with the amount of brokeness surrounding PVP, people still and always will cry about nerfing the rogue and when the guys the main TRs bring up alternatives to conpensate with things that others want taken, a lot will still complain about the suggestion. You can seriously tell the ones with hidden agendas by saying this class is broken but my class is not (e.g. gwf) stating our damage is fine, it's the gear blah blah blah. Oh its about the stacks or what not etc etc yet deep down when you look at it, it is broken to some degree but no. You have to admit to some degree that the gwf does way too much damage, stacks or not. My gwf doesn't have lostmouth set but still does ridiculous amount of damage and I can only imagine once I get a full set on it.
So we have stamina drain that takes away the footwork part and dodging part of combat.
Next will be no class mechanic for some classes.
Devs wamt combat to be turned into 2 guys standing still and hitting each others to death?
Sometimes i think the devs are trollin' us with PvP.
Thats what is said about "The one ring"
revovlerjesus1 said:
You are very very wrong. The Debuff rings are broken beyond anything, its removes EVERYTHING, all buffs all elixirs and OPs bubble, Feytouch etc. I have not been able to test everything yet. But my best guess its affecting the most.
Or maybe this is a good thing in the end, so players dont need to pot up like crazy anymore, but its gamechanging for sure.
hawkfr said:
Yeah, that's what I said, it might be good if it does remove everything, but if you didn't test it, (I still didn't myself), we cannot judge right now ^^ if it does as you say remove everything then yeah maybe, but remember it's only every minute. So in 60s you have the time to recast your bubble, to attack 1 more time to get your feytouch bonus ...
edit: Ok I've tested, The ring of Natural order does remove the DP. So I don't think it'll break pvp, but it'll add new strats and way to win ( and maybe it's good as it brings a way to remove perma bubble in pvp )
Instead of piling up new gamebreaking effects and items, they should focus on balancing classes.
Instead they add more HAMSTER that in the end will bring new interactions with new elements of the game they 100% didn't test or intended to introduce.
They are overcomplicating an unbalanced mode (PvP) without balancing it first. You add new strategies when the existing ones are already balalnced.
But oh well, their choice.
Nullify stamina (drain), nullify stealth, nullify self buffs...it's seriously ridiculous.
I don't like it one bit. They must balance classes, not add more HAMSTER and unbalanced items.
who wants to join PVP in a game that throws you in one pit with maxed chars?
right now i met a maxed CW in dom
allways asked myself why she does not get damaged at all, looked up for her defense looked up for her deflect...hm none
but hey 164k HP lol, thats the solution for my headache
what a 1-Shot means..
So basically a single Player is able to kill you with one Single 1-Hit,
they have the possibility to burn down All your HP immediately to Zero,
For example around ~130,000 HP instantly to zero!
(without caring about what gear do u have, what enchantments do u use or what a kind of defense do u have..)
So my question is,
for what do we have a combat system when pressing 1-Button is enough to kill an enemy player?
Combat.. you think,it can still be called so?
..
But as icydrake said, once a SW or GWF gear up and his HP pool becomes large enough+Mythic Wheel, you can basically take the hit and heal back.
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
in case of permarooterdazerhunter it didn't help