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TR still broken!!
bronto111
Member Posts: 110 Arc User
So TR were broken before strongholds and the new pvp lionsmane gear,nothing has changed.
My GWF with full R11 and maxed level lionsmane (+ infused) pvp gear and max level artrifacts and max level arti gear (iL 3992).
126k HP and 51% defence(75% tenacity) etc and still get one shot by a TR while riding my mount in GG pvp.
QUYEN-VN deals 135k damage with Shocking Execution !!!! I died from Full 126k HP from that one shot and was riding my mount at full speed at the time!(110% speed white tiger)
When are you going to fix this HAMSTER,its completely unacceptable that ONE class should have damage that ignores EVERYTHING including tenacity!!
My GWF with full R11 and maxed level lionsmane (+ infused) pvp gear and max level artrifacts and max level arti gear (iL 3992).
126k HP and 51% defence(75% tenacity) etc and still get one shot by a TR while riding my mount in GG pvp.
QUYEN-VN deals 135k damage with Shocking Execution !!!! I died from Full 126k HP from that one shot and was riding my mount at full speed at the time!(110% speed white tiger)
When are you going to fix this HAMSTER,its completely unacceptable that ONE class should have damage that ignores EVERYTHING including tenacity!!
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On a side note... BiS GWF with companions can usually beat TRs.... :x
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
Here's a tip: just give up on 'balance' in regards to SH. No information coming out from that game type can be trusted at face value since outside factors/variables are involved.
To me, already, I'm just considering SH as nothing but a mandatory farming chore to get items.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Also if helpful pet suggestions to the problem would be welcome. The only one yet mentioned, pig, does nothing against spike damage. HP bonuses help, but not enough in most cases.
The Problem is Piercing damage does not Only ignore All DR, it Ignore also All Tenacity!
With a high "Crit" it can Ignore basically any kind of defence you use.
this is an stupidity FREE Advantage for TRs,
I mentioned thousand time but devs don't care...
Here's all, i dont have anymore the patience for:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1190881/please-remove-piercing-damage-from-shocking-execution-or/p18
wish you luck trying you make the devs listened you, but will probably never happen.
no talk about companion bonuses?
no talk about perma stun hrs?
no talk about gfs that kill you in less then 1 rotation?
no talk about tanky cws that do 75-100k dmg?
no talk about always daily up pally?
no talk about i can ultra heal myself - i cant die clerics?
no talk about new breed of "titan" like gwf?
face the facts pvp is unbalanced and broken then ever b4, and its not gonna get better anytime soon. wanna go pvp go but know the risks.
sometimes i have fun there. sometimes i get rekt by bis players or just bug exploiters that feel really good using it cause they have no skill and must use exploit to be able to win pvp match.
@xsayajinx1 yes stealth depletion on melee at wills is bad, im already in range hence im visible. i would rather see a cooldown on shadowy opportunity or no cooldown/higher base damage but not piercing
I took a stand to not using the FotM before, I made great friends with possibly the only two other TR who knew WK at all, but playing differently sure didn't help to stay competitive. It just felt like I had a really strong right arm which I refuse to use, so I was fighting handicapped. I had a choice to stay less competitive or go back to the TR build everybody complains about. I chose to play content other than PvP.
Back to my question then, can you give me something, anything, a build idea, that isn't overpowered but stands a fair chance against yourself? Because if you ask me, the only thing they are doing wrong is using their characters to its max potential in PvP because our class is simple either too strong with it and too gimped without.
Otherwise, I'd support the fix to ITC and SE, but not CB. I'd rather see a general nerf to AP gaining rates for ALL classes.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
About GWF damage: a full stacked GWF is on top with damage, but we already explained how most of PvP power of GWF comes from better interaction with the "broken triplet" T.Fey+T.Neg+eLoL set:
- T.Fey good for most, but more for GWF cause it's weak in the beginning, and needs time to grow monster, where CW, GF, HR, all start very powerful. GWF is like soulbinder SW as a base.
- T.Neg good for most, but expecially for a fighter with high DR from gear and the temp HP unstoppable mechanic which makes it tankier with time. GWF unstoppable is similar to SB SW sparks+borrowed time, in a way.
So basically: other classes are "max power" from the start, and have weaknesses. GWF weakness is supposed to be the "unbuffed" situation before going unstoppable, when you can burst him. T.Fey+T.Neg basically erases that weakness.
- eLoL set scales with weapon damage and crit chance. GWF has highest weapon damage and top crit chance, so it's clear how broken eLoL set is even more powerful on GWF.
Fix the triad then we rebalance the self-buffs and the rest. GWF base damage and survivability are poor. And if you "massively" nerf the class based on its performances with the broken triplet, when the items eventually get fixed you end up with an overnerfed class, much like to start of module 4, when all the uninformed complaints resulted in the class becoming the weakest.
Now, GWF is not even the top dog, most experienced PvPers do not consider it broken, so be careful with the nerf requests.
Damage must be stil high on a DPS class, so if you "massively nerf" the self-buffs, you do not only make the class more efficient with easier-to-land powers, you also buff base damage to make it high enough to fit the class where it belongs (top DPS).
and if you do you will find it not that easy. everyone targets you first and also if you do manage to sneak up to someone and stab them, they hack dodge (at least i think its a hack, they dodge stabs without even seeing you)
Roar has never in any point in the games history pierced any form of CC immunity and ESPECIALLY not dodges.Severe differences in latency in a game with an already unstable server structure were and still are the only cause of fast-fire cc skills seeming to bypass cc immunity(Icy Rays being the only exception when it comes to piercing dodges although technically it could be avoided as well).The only thing you could *pierce* with Roar and unreliably since it required specific timing during enemy encounter/at-will useage was GWF Unstoppable with only the silence portion of the skill and not the actual root or pushback and that took me weeks and hundreds of matches of testing to be able to do it with consistency.
Comparing Roar with Courage Breaker while providing such offensively inaccurate information is inviting the genious dev team to nerf it into the ground the same way they did with Roar(and you know they will).That along with the inevitable soon to come destruction of SE will again most probably leave the TR class in a sad state especially with the introduction of items that will directly impact the usefulness of Stealth if not outright remove it as a defensive mechanic.Cryptic never compensates for the massive build/class breaking nerfs they do to classes and since you are a GWF that has experienced it and considering that GWF is always number 2 on the chopping block after TR i suggest you stop rocking your own god damn boat. Propose actual balance changes that are admitedly needed instead of simply using your own distorted view of what was and is to justify what you personally WANT to happen. Whether it be based on your obvious hatred for the TR class or the *full denial mode* of GWF viability you seem to always resort to it's wrong and won't lead to anything positive for you or the people beating you.
I didn't compare Courage Breaker to Roar, so learn to read. I compared a mechanic, a specific one, which is a CC power going through CC immunity. Courage Breaker ignores CC immunity. If with my TR i hit an unstoppable GWF, he still gets semi-rooted by CB slowdown effect. If i hit him while sprinting, same.
My suggestion if you, sir, learn to read again, instead acting like a kid, is to BUFF the effect of CB, but make it "dodgeable". Which means that if the enemy is hit while sprinting/ during CC immunity, your daily misses. Just like any other daily except TR SE and CB fails if it hits dodges/ immunities/ defensive mechanics. On the other side, if you can use your brain that much to time it and hit the enemy after a dodge, or out of sprint, you have the full effect. Which is just common sense.
I already proposed changes to TR in exchange for SE fixes, and dersidius aka Sicarius, one of the oldest TRs in game, said those suggestions were good and that was the way to go to fix SE without ruining the TR class.
I don't really need anything else and sorry, i value the opinion of more experienced TRs who can discuss normally without personal attacks, than a rage post by some nameless kid.
You should really, really rage less and learn to read and how to discuss with other users.
thats how it works.
Instead, now, we've got people with builds that can repeat these dailies under 20s flat. So when we start complaining about Daily powers, let's have a moment's pause and think about why nobody complained about the absolute majority of the dailies for the last 5~6 mods, and then suddenly it's become a big problem. Oh sure, falling under the effects of CB every 10s intervals is bad, but then so is being bombarded with stuff like non-stop Oppressive Force.
So put your hands on your hearts and ask yourselves: "Did I object to this when it all started, and they've opened up a can of worms when they first started messing around with AP/dailies, when Sigil of the Divine first came?" , because the way I recall it, most of the people here were fiercely defending how cool and fun it was to be able to refill AP fast and get to spam dailies more.
Oh sure, they were hellbent on how lame it was to be hit with BB or SE in very short intervals, but then they always weasled out when us TRs admitted to the problem, but correctly pointed out the source of the problem was with broken artifacts and chit. They'd prefer to be able to spam their own dailies, but simply did not want the same thing done to themselves.
Another fine "I told you so" moment, in the long history of the devs AND THE PLAYERS both contributing to the decline of the game.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
It does not work as intended. It's supposed to add weapon damage on critical hits, but that damage gets buffed by buffs, debuffs and multipliers to insane numbers.
Compared to other set bonuses it overperforms.
The high crit build on GWF is more effective cause, since it scales with weapon damage, on GWF the damage is higher since the class got the highest weapon damage.
If a set is broken or overperforming, just like T.Fey for example, it must be toned down. Sorry if the owners of said set don't want it to happen.
Courage breaker has one debuff (attack) effect, but also slows down the enemy by 90%, for a quite long time.
More like "it's a root cause it makes the enemy move 1-in per hour, but we call it a slow down effect". The effect you get using it is to block a melee in place. Slow effect is listed as CC. Not debuff.
Now, the effect goes through CC immunity AND is not removed by CC breakers. It mentions this cause the slow down effect of the daily is, indeed, a CC effect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowd_control_(video_gaming)
http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Crowd_Control Slow is usually listed as soft CC, but in CB it's so heavy that it is basically a root, and a very long one too, just "hidden" behind the fact that it's a slow effect. Too bad that if i slow your movements by 90%, i'm basically rooting you.
Add the rank 4 damage debuff, and what the daily translates into is "transform the enemy in a free target for X seconds".
It's not a huge problem usually, cause most TRs slot SE, and the ability is more effective on melees since a ranged HR/CW/SW can still CC you while you root him in place. A GF can still turn around and block your damage and a DC can still heal and use EAS unless you drop smoke bomb after CB on these classes. Add to this that the daily deals no damage and the TR encounters are, usually not high bursts.
So the daily itself is not overpowered. But if it gets almost spammable due to the absurd AP gain we see now, it is indeed too powerful vs GWFs, just like piercing SE.
But i'm not saying that it must be "nerfed". Just like i don't want SE to get nerfed without compensating buffs to the class or the daily itself.
I'm not saying that.
I'm saying that the mechanic itself of "ignoring CC immumities" is stupid and it would be better to buff CB effect but make it lose the slow down part if you hit a sprinting-unstoppable-dodging-shadowslipping enemy, keeping the part that makes the slow effect stay even if the enemy uses a CC breaker.
It means that if you hit the enemy out of CC immunity, you succeed. If you hit him when he is in CC immunity, you fail.
Forcing TRs to time the daily, while increasing the effect of the daily.
Example, at rank 4:
You debuff the enemy damage by 90%, also reducing his self healing and damage resistance by half, for 10 seconds. You additionally slow down the enemy movements by 90% for 10 seconds, this effect cannot be nullified by CC breakers.
Now the lack of damage is compensated by a heavier debuff-slow effect, but at the same time if the TR is a total nab and fires it on a shifting-immune enemy, he gets punished.
At the same time, the daily now is more useful on other classes and not only on GWFs, and becomes more viable and a better choice. If you can time it.
I don't understand why it's so hard to understand that mechanics that "hit no matter what" are stupid and take away skill from the combat.
I have DC sigil cause i have a lvl 70 DC, but i only use it at blue on 2k iLvL alts. Two of which i use on PvE, and the only other toon being my 2.1k SW. Never used it on my main (GWF) or my last toon (TR).
Problem is, when i (or you, or others) write against broken stuff most ppl abuse, you get those replies such as "everyone can buy X item" or " you want it nerfed cause you don't own it". Just like eLoL set: i said it's broken, it's clearly broken, but a genius replied to me that "eLoL set is fine" and that i just want it "nerfed" cause i don't own it.
AP gain is indeed through the roof, with legendary AP gain neck pieces + mythic devoted sigil + flail snail mount absurd effect.
Expecially on classes that already have a high AP generation.
Same goes for drain enchants, T.Fey...you can say they are broken but nothing happens. I don't use these items and, in fact, i basically play on a significantly lower level compared to an equally skilled player who uses said items/ combos.
Problem is, PWE seems to rely on this strategy to keep players in need for massive amounts of AD and items.
Pre-tenebrous nerf (mod 1 and before)---->own tenebrous+ high HP build or GTFO
*don't remember what was broken in module 2-3 but may be most balanced period related to items (not classes)*
module 4---> blue-red glyphs or GTFO
Enchants rework----> T.Fey+T.Neg+eLoL or GTFO
Mounts with bonuses--->the above + bonus mount or GTFO
SH---> the above+ drain enchants or GTFO