"together Knife's edge or SoD double/triple stack due DoT enchants"
You really are playing imaginary Neverwinter.
So, SoD could not stack 2 or more times or Knife's edge did not reset completly TR's encounters due it procced once per hit... nice to know. . Hope now you get why i sent you to troll Powries on Sharandar... And you should stay there for a little longer.
dont forget that now sod doesnt work as supposed tho. you may want to cite it in your historical report.
that is a good 50% dps loss for exe tr.
Um.... What do either Knife's Edge (Saboteur) or Shadow of Demise (Executioner) have to do with the Scoundrel tree? May want to recheck what you were trying to convey.
Or just use a bit of reading comprehension and check that i said "Scoundrel's tree was OP (due perma daze) together Knife's edge (beucase it procced on each hit from Bloodbath) and SoD double/triple stacks (obvious)" . Do not see your point here... unless you are one of those troll players whose stated back there that "you all, non-TR-players, are wrong due it's impossible that a TR can have perma daze + knife's edge + SoD at the same time" because players pointed the main issues with TR-class back there without any need to tell each time from which trees the issues were or pointing the fact that only "scoundrel + Knife's Edge" could be attainable just to make some BIAS into that old thread
I was just trying to be helpful, as how you had stated it by saying "Scoundrel tree.... together with Knife's Edge and SoD" looked like you thought that Scoundrels can get SoD, which is the executioner capstone. Lack of punctuation killed any sort of clarity.
If you noticed, I'm saying that GWFs and SWs should have some defense from Shocking Execution and I don't defend SE as it is at all. Try recognizing who your allies are in an argument, or you just show yourself to be argumentative without a purpose.
While scoundrel was not perfectly balanced in Mod 5, it was the closest of the trees to being so, as it was the one TR path that could not reasonably restealth. As well, it has the WORST tier 1 and tier 2 feats of any trees in the game. It's been nerfed to death already, losing the movement speed and gaining an ICD, so you may want to stop whining about it and get over it.
sorry ,..im only saying just for a trade..because currently this thread is a war between GWFs and TRs
dev will not look into it...TR doesnt want nerfing ofc...but GWF wants it..this debate is endless..
im a TR myself (MI/exe ofc..not ****perma)...SE hard to land for other classes with dodging ability/shielding etc..if 1vs1 ..you can hear the deadly sound,..but easy to SW and GWF actually, most of the time..because they ....j..u..s..t..cant dodge..
really sorry for GWF and SW...actually IMHO GWF and SW need dodge ability, ...
many broken factors than nerfing this actually,..that DEV really need to look into ..like PERMA **** stealth and
**** CC....this is broken..nothing in pvp MMO ive played b4 have perma...UO, DaoC, linage2, GW2...
well back to topic...SE is fine maybe nerf the range..thats all..10' range...nerf perma please.....
If needed, the audio queue can be just removed. Other dailies are insta-cast, you don't have an indication that it's coming, so SE, ice knife exc...should just have the audio queue either removed or the animation shortened so it's not so easy to dodge in 1v1.
Every class should have a fair chance to land attacks and dodge. Every attack should be a 50%-50% to either get hit or dodge.
A player should increase his chances through skills/ prediction. Should be like this on both sides.
So i should not dodge SE cause the audio queue is telling me "hey, hi dude, i'm shocking execution and i'm about to drop!", but may be cause, for example, i see the DC sigil symbol popping at some point, so i know that in few seconds a daily could come.
This, or either have a stun/ daze that, if landed, allows the TR to safely land SE, if dodged, forces the TR to take the risk and try to time his SE when the enemy is, for example, out of stamina.
SE does not need nerf but a proper timing/dodge mechanic, damage buffed but respecting DR/tenacity.
As i said above, it should hit THAT hard, but for example on low HP targets. It's the supposed use cause if you look at it, the added bonus of the daily is AP refill if you hit a low HP target. Plus, it's an execution. Execution means you kill and enemy who is already beaten/ almost dead. Not dropping randomly a nuke on a full HP/ almost full HP target to bring him on his knees. That's not what execution means.
And in fact, the use of the daily is clearly wrong these days since the TRs just don't even time it...they shoot it. Usually on the 2 classes who they know cannot dodge it. It's used as a tool to bring 2 classes on their knees, for free.
That GWF is outplaying you and killing you? No problem. Pop DC sigil. Wait a few seconds. Take down 40-50-60k HP from the GWF, for free, then kill him.
This MMO is supposed to have action, proactive combat where you have to aim and time your hits, and dodge. Or it would be better to play an old-fashioned point-and-click mmorpg. Am i right?
Example: GWF vs GWF i had today. Me and the other GWF pretty close to each others. Killing or being killed by few HPs. Duel is, if the GWF kows how to play, a mix of hits and sprint to make the enemy waste his encounters. Being so close, each hit counts. I lost a duel cause i timed my IBS wrong and he dodged it sprinting out of range. I won another duel timing my sprint and dodging his FLS, or kiting his unstoppable so he could not build stacks, taking advantage of the plaguefire vs vorpal mechanic.
It was fun, it was action-packed, and more of all the winner was, each time, the one who could time his attacks better, or dodge better.
Here and there we still have this kind of fights inter-class too. But it's now being replaced with passive mechanics that you don't really need to time, or that you just need to "spam".
Would be good to have the combat system figured out and with more skills involved...
Um.... What do either Knife's Edge (Saboteur) or Shadow of Demise (Executioner) have to do with the Scoundrel tree? May want to recheck what you were trying to convey.
Or just use a bit of reading comprehension and check that i said "Scoundrel's tree was OP (due perma daze) together Knife's edge (beucase it procced on each hit from Bloodbath) and SoD double/triple stacks (obvious)" . Do not see your point here... unless you are one of those troll players whose stated back there that "you all, non-TR-players, are wrong due it's impossible that a TR can have perma daze + knife's edge + SoD at the same time" because players pointed the main issues with TR-class back there without any need to tell each time from which trees the issues were or pointing the fact that only "scoundrel + Knife's Edge" could be attainable just to make some BIAS into that old thread
I was just trying to be helpful, as how you had stated it by saying "Scoundrel tree.... together with Knife's Edge and SoD" looked like you thought that Scoundrels can get SoD, which is the executioner capstone. Lack of punctuation killed any sort of clarity.
If you noticed, I'm saying that GWFs and SWs should have some defense from Shocking Execution and I don't defend SE as it is at all. Try recognizing who your allies are in an argument, or you just show yourself to be argumentative without a purpose.
While scoundrel was not perfectly balanced in Mod 5, it was the closest of the trees to being so, as it was the one TR path that could not reasonably restealth. As well, it has the WORST tier 1 and tier 2 feats of any trees in the game. It's been nerfed to death already, losing the movement speed and gaining an ICD, so you may want to stop whining about it and get over it.
He just wants all classes but his to be useless. Look at his post history. also he assumes everyone is a enemy noob who doesn't have a brain and will call you that too. I would stop trying you'll never teach this illiterate jerk.
This MMO is supposed to have action, proactive combat where you have to aim and time your hits, and dodge. Or it would be better to play an old-fashioned point-and-click mmorpg. Am i right?
...
Would be good to have the combat system figured out and with more skills involved...
On the first point, the combat system would imply that (one of the few reasons to like this game), but the ability to hard-lock and that the game design has gone to proc damage/healing says otherwise. Basically the current design took something quite colourful and unique in MMOs, and applied MMO mechanics to it killing it all.
On the second point.... YES. I say scrap the current numbers and power applications, and just redesign based on the combat system being the core of the game (and block users from applying hard-locks).
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seventhpillarMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
Two words for fix. Delete class. Give class re-roll to deleted class that shall not be named. Tired of the cries regardless of what it is. After this power gets nerfed, there will be more gripes, guaranteed.
Hope you never complained about Mod3's GWF roar bug, Mod4's CW perma freeze or Melee HR. Mod5's DCs or TRs.... ops, wait, just forget this last one or never complained about mod6's GF combo to death, Trappers HR or ProtOPs...
OPs yes I have and everybody knows that how broken that class is. HR, I probably have mentioned the chain CC/daze but never directly asked for nerf. GF combo death? Please show me. I said I have a GF and it's funny how I can burst someone down faster especially with anvil and I mentioned something about to this effect. Do I want it nerfed? Hell no, I love this on my GF. Helps me kill TRs. I even had an TR accuse of cheating because little did he know, I play TR and I know what to expect and anticipated his move. Stealth > smokebomb > cos > roll. Where are you getting this? If memory serves me right, you have more posts to nerf threads especially with TRs. Talk about someone with issues (or say hidden agenda). Let me remind you that I run TR, GWF, GF, CW and SW. For what it's worth, if you look through my post history, I have said if you take away something from TR, there is no issue, just give something back in exchange to be competitive at the same gear level. Either way it's a win/win for me. Take it from my TR, then it helps my other classes. Just annoying to see the amount of complaints on the TR when we all know there are more serious balance issues. Yes I am looking at the OP class. You would think that should take more priority especially after the SO nerf. So should we just keep nerfing one class while we let the other run rampartly broken? Last post on this thread. Again, take something, put something back in exchange.
hahaha, nice joke. But you are wrong OR, maybe, is just that you really enjoyed being struck by GWF's roar back on mod 3, being perma freezed and melted by CWs and HRs or being one-shotted by Intimidation back on mod4, being perma dazed with "CD reset" by TRs back on mod 5, one shot by OPs (pre DJ nerf) and TRs here on mod 6 hitting for 10k damage per S.O. ... . If so, you can still ask devs to bring back all stuff back. Surely, PvP will be really "funny" with all those broken mechanics.
you have this problem of putting words in others mouths. im getting tired of it. i cannot name a discussion you havnt used that sentence in. you have asked for every class to be nerfed all in one mod. im not kidding look at your post history. you cry and cry because you apparently lack skill to kill anything. learn 2 play before you start complaining.
I think TRs need to learn to play without piercing damage. Grow some balls and play like every other class not rely on cheese 100% free shots. But anyway sooner or later devs will fix it and then we will see who is who)
PS: of course all those potato scrubs deffenders will come and come and cry how TRs is poor and no damage and not enough ITC and rolls and whatever. Sabo by itself atm just LOL.
While I agree with you romanporter on skilless Shocking Execution piercing damage, TRs can hardly beat a good GWF without it. (Gwf is my main, just for the context)
What you are asking for would be an overkill (SE rework + stealth reveal again?). Would make the class useless.
TRs need something in return IF piercing aspect will be removed/reworked from SE.
You are right. Buff in damage other encounters so they can choose to slot smoke bomd/ITC to encounters that deal damage. Or safe rat style gameplay or risky damage out gameplay.
+1 to this
SE is getting its inevitable nerf to piercing damage, and while that is the only point of being an "assassin" anymore, one or two classes have a right to complain about it.
In return, some of the TR powers need to be massively tuned up, increase base damage that is not piercing, lower cooldowns, bigger range.
Firstly, Lashing Blade.
If you're an LB user in PvP, it's not about "good luck landing that on someone" --because that's just plain skill-- rather it's about whether after you land it, is it even worth the effort. On a CW, OP, GF, GWF, DC, you're going to be lucky to score a 10K Lashing Blade. If you built it with first strike, maybe you will see up to 20K but that's it. That's an encounter with a high miss rate and a long cooldown.
Thinking deeper, Lashing Blade is the TR equivalent of the GWF's Indomitable Battle Strike. Both are easy to miss, both need to be set up carefully to use, both should deal burst damage. IBS does enough damage for the hard work. LB doesn't. If you want to set up a sure hit with Lashing Blade, you need to;
(a) daze the opponent first - giving up first strike - 75% less damage
(b) a surprise attack, the enemy doesn't know you're there, standing still
But for all that hard work, even GWF at will or a CW passive could hit harder.
Secondly, Blitz
How is it not funny that Hidden Daggers (the GWF's knock off of TR's Blitz) happens to do more damage than Lashing Blade, and has charges.
Impact Shot
This power was nerfed when it was possible to chain-spam Impact Shots to kill CWs (the most popular target at the time). Now even if you buff Impact Shot damage twofolds, and chain it six times, you would still do more damage using Clouds of Steel... which leads to this comparison... Clouds of Steel spam does more damage than Impact Shots. At Will vs Encounter. I mean, come on!
Wicked Reminder
PS: There's a bug, it multiproc's Lostmauth's Vengeance 4x and Shadow of Opportunity 2x, when used from stealth. That has to do with the application of the debuff part, also activates effects like LoL and SO. But all you're going to hit with Wicked Reminder is wicked air, and it still does pathetic damage.
Shadowy Disappearance
... is a joke. The only use for it is (from what I've seen others do) glitching through dungeon maps, or getting themselves stuck in the gauntlgrym node.
TL;DR
The point wasn't to b*tch how a GWF or CW does better in terms of "normal damage", but that's what a DPS class is entitled to. A TR is a single-target striker therefore base damage, cooldowns and hit-miss chances should be brought up to those levels.
Right now, the only thing that sets apart the TR, the only thing that makes it a viable in PvP, is piercing damage. Piercing damage is not the right way to go. Remove all piercing damage from the game and buff up the TR's base dps to GWF and CW levels.
While at it, remember to put all those changes in the Executioner tree, or some of it in Scoundrel, because Saboteur is the permastealth tree and shouldn't be the highest dps path!
PS:
Rework First Strike to "apply on first encounter power on entering stealth, not on entering combat" like Shadowborn. When you see a 70K SE, that's just cuz SE is nuts. But when you see a 120K SE...that's First Strike in action. Dailies are meant to be a finisher, you don't open with a daily, First Strike shouldn't proc on either at wills or dailies.
icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
Perm stealth is the most "shocking" design I have ever seen in the past 16 years MMO experience... I dont mind piercing damage as long as there is a resistance built for it and provided many classes (weaponary class) has skills that can pierce the target, as to casters (CW/SW) they can then have their magic damage, again, build resistances around it (arcane, fire, lightning resistance...etc) This could be more work but this would make the game more interesting... but personally I think this is gonna be too much work for Cryptic... so instead... I say they need to look into Piercing Damage and make adjustments to it...
Should really...frankly... just kill permastealth, kill piercing, tear off the limbs and extremities of every TR build, so that TR can be worse than a warlock. Then, when the TR is in the state of regression to its TRash origins, all the other bad TR and unskilled BiS TR can meta jump to the next class.
Maybe then the Devs will finally have the sense to buff the correct paths that fits the role of a single-target melee striker.
"Pre-mod 5 [Devs talking] This class does no damage in PvE... Let's add piercing to the Sabo tree. While at it, lets give perma the one-shot effect. Forget the rest, this is easier work. Hey, do you want to grab a beer or something?"
Don't compare Lashing blade to IBS. And don't compare Trs to GWFs. There is a huge difference.
You daze with smoke and you land Lashing guarantred. You slow with Courage braker and you land any encounter you want. And you deflect all GWFs stuns so very small chance to land IBS. To get good damage on IBS we need to build fricking 8576645675 stacks but you want the same damage on Lashing straight. LOL. Maybe glazed donats all over your TR's face? Also it's difficult to hit with daggers caz you have stealth almost perma and 4 rolls. So don't be a freak compare those 2 classes.
But i see what you want. You want use Courage braker and then combo with burst damage.LOL 1 rotation and GG. Nice try dude. But for now piercing MUST go away. Then we will see)
You are wrong on so many levels pal. I did not state to compare what a fight between a GWF and TR may look like or might end up. I compare two encounters, their power interactions and executions, in the premise that they are the highest burst encounter available to either class--two melee dps class--to establish a fair baseline.
I know how IBS is a difficult skill, and I understand the mechanics behind it. You obviously have no idea how to land a Lashing Blade against a moving target, and you don't understand how First Strike works.
To land a strong IBS, you build up the stacks required, you stun to immobilize the target, time those stuns properly, and strike.
To land a WEAK Lashing Blade, you daze the target first, and strike. A weak LB has about the same damage as an at-will.
To land a sure-hit Lashing Blade, you use Courage Breaker to immobilize by a 90% slow...which, if you have some sense, is pointless, because at that point, just use Shocking Execution.
To land a STRONG Lashing Blade, you use First Strike. If you use First Strike, there is no "Dazing the enemy with Smoke Bomb" or "slowing them with CB". This is the first attack, one time and one time only. Targets move, they press the WASD keys. A step in the wrong direction as you predict your target's movement is enough to make you miss a First Strike Lashing Blade.
But that's OK and all.
What's not OK, is for all that hard work, Lashing Blade would still do a pathetic 10-15K post-mitigation, whereas a commparatively difficult GWF's IBS would take half of your health. Don't even get me started on CW passives that activate on their own.
Out of 10 TRs, maybe 1 or 2 can land a First Strike Lashing Blade, 5 of whom would just tell you you are stupid for trying, and then there is the matter of reseting First Strike. Another story, different time.
-
If you want us TRs to agree to removing all piercing, removing all permastealth and removing ITC, this is the compromise we demand. We should do as much normal damage as any striker class. GWF isn't even a pure striker. You are also an off tank. CW is a controller striker. TR is a total melee striker. So why the hell is it that the only viable build for PvP is a ranged freakin permastealth?!
Please think first before quoting me. It's all I ask. Thank you.
You are wrong on so many levels pal. I did not state to compare what a fight between a GWF and TR may look like or might end up. I compare two encounters, their power interactions and executions, in the premise that they are the highest burst encounter available to either class--two melee dps class--to establish a fair baseline.
I know how IBS is a difficult skill, and I understand the mechanics behind it. You obviously have no idea how to land a Lashing Blade against a moving target, and you don't understand how First Strike works.
To land a strong IBS, you build up the stacks required, you stun to immobilize the target, time those stuns properly, and strike.
To land a WEAK Lashing Blade, you daze the target first, and strike. A weak LB has about the same damage as an at-will.
To land a sure-hit Lashing Blade, you use Courage Breaker to immobilize by a 90% slow...which, if you have some sense, is pointless, because at that point, just use Shocking Execution.
To land a STRONG Lashing Blade, you use First Strike. If you use First Strike, there is no "Dazing the enemy with Smoke Bomb" or "slowing them with CB". This is the first attack, one time and one time only. Targets move, they press the WASD keys. A step in the wrong direction as you predict your target's movement is enough to make you miss a First Strike Lashing Blade.
But that's OK and all.
What's not OK, is for all that hard work, Lashing Blade would still do a pathetic 10-15K post-mitigation, whereas a commparatively difficult GWF's IBS would take half of your health. Don't even get me started on CW passives that activate on their own.
Out of 10 TRs, maybe 1 or 2 can land a First Strike Lashing Blade, 5 of whom would just tell you you are stupid for trying, and then there is the matter of reseting First Strike. Another story, different time.
-
If you want us TRs to agree to removing all piercing, removing all permastealth and removing ITC, this is the compromise we demand. We should do as much normal damage as any striker class. GWF isn't even a pure striker. You are also an off tank. CW is a controller striker. TR is a total melee striker. So why the hell is it that the only viable build for PvP is a ranged freakin permastealth?!
Please think first before quoting me. It's all I ask. Thank you.
If TR will loose permastealth, fix ITC and fix piercing i agree that damage should be increased.
If you want us TRs to agree to removing all piercing, removing all permastealth and removing ITC, this is the compromise we demand. We should do as much normal damage as any striker class.
See, we are finally in agreement. All you need now is a lesson in manners but you won't find it in the forums.
You are wrong on so many levels pal. I did not state to compare what a fight between a GWF and TR may look like or might end up. I compare two encounters, their power interactions and executions, in the premise that they are the highest burst encounter available to either class--two melee dps class--to establish a fair baseline.
I know how IBS is a difficult skill, and I understand the mechanics behind it. You obviously have no idea how to land a Lashing Blade against a moving target, and you don't understand how First Strike works.
To land a strong IBS, you build up the stacks required, you stun to immobilize the target, time those stuns properly, and strike.
To land a WEAK Lashing Blade, you daze the target first, and strike. A weak LB has about the same damage as an at-will.
To land a sure-hit Lashing Blade, you use Courage Breaker to immobilize by a 90% slow...which, if you have some sense, is pointless, because at that point, just use Shocking Execution.
To land a STRONG Lashing Blade, you use First Strike. If you use First Strike, there is no "Dazing the enemy with Smoke Bomb" or "slowing them with CB". This is the first attack, one time and one time only. Targets move, they press the WASD keys. A step in the wrong direction as you predict your target's movement is enough to make you miss a First Strike Lashing Blade.
But that's OK and all.
What's not OK, is for all that hard work, Lashing Blade would still do a pathetic 10-15K post-mitigation, whereas a commparatively difficult GWF's IBS would take half of your health. Don't even get me started on CW passives that activate on their own.
Out of 10 TRs, maybe 1 or 2 can land a First Strike Lashing Blade, 5 of whom would just tell you you are stupid for trying, and then there is the matter of reseting First Strike. Another story, different time.
-
If you want us TRs to agree to removing all piercing, removing all permastealth and removing ITC, this is the compromise we demand. We should do as much normal damage as any striker class. GWF isn't even a pure striker. You are also an off tank. CW is a controller striker. TR is a total melee striker. So why the hell is it that the only viable build for PvP is a ranged freakin permastealth?!
Please think first before quoting me. It's all I ask. Thank you.
If TR will loose permastealth, fix ITC and fix piercing i agree that damage should be increased.
If you want us TRs to agree to removing all piercing, removing all permastealth and removing ITC, this is the compromise we demand. We should do as much normal damage as any striker class.
See, we are finally in agreement. All you need now is a lesson in manners but you won't find it in the forums.
Cannot resist on this one. I agree and perhaps reclass to brawler instead of assassin.
If you want us TRs to agree to removing all piercing, removing all permastealth and removing ITC, this is the compromise we demand. We should do as much normal damage as any striker class.
See, we are finally in agreement. All you need now is a lesson in manners but you won't find it in the forums.[/quote]
i think ,..just fix perma stealth...sorry MI/sabo, perma is broken.
im a TR also...please Don'T fixing ITC and piercing ...its working as intended
about SE doing piercing dmg...its called execution..means..supposed to be very deadly...
just make SE 10' range radius..
peace....
i think ,..just fix perma stealth...sorry MI/sabo, perma is broken.
im a TR also...please Don'T fixing ITC and piercing ...its working as intended
about SE doing piercing dmg...its called execution..means..supposed to be very deadly...
just make SE 10' range radius..
peace....
Working as intended doesn't mean balanced. Piercing damage is overpowered and even more if you can reach such big hits like Shocking Execution does!
Good that you mentioned the name, it's obviously intended to be a finisher, which kicks in if the target has 30% HP and lower, not skilless 1-shot button against targets with 100% HP(especially against SW/GWF).
That "range suggestion" is, well, to be honest. <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. That won't solve anything.
Still suggesting: "if you use Shocking Execution on a target with 100% HP it's damage dealt gets reduced by 80%, this effect diminishes when targets HP diminishes. At 30% HP (target) it deals full damage (safe kill) and gets its 2nd recharge."
hahha..yes yes i know...xsayajinx1...
SE still overpower actually,...yes i think its a finisher...like in mortal kombat...FINISH HIM!....
i think TR is hammered with alot of nerfs from previous2 version..but they still maintain the superiority in pvp..
because TR feats its all good...except scoundrel..maybe .mmm .but lately i see alot WK and scoundrel build...good!! the feat /paragon TR can stand against anything...
so TRs dont worry ithink LOL
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lonewolfmk1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 137Arc User
[/quote]
Dude in your post before you asked for MASSIVELY up damage on encounters so why the F you talking about First strike skill? Or you want maybe 1 shot with Lashing? If TR will loose permastealth, fix ITC and fix piercing i agree that damage should be increased. So don't cry how Lashing weak right now. And if damage will increased you gonna Courage B, smoke and land Lashing with no problem with decent amount of damage.
But anyway PIERCING MUST go away as skilless, crapy type of damage.
[/quote]
I think you dont think your point really through. First of all, i main a GF but also have a well equipped TR.
Do you know why you see nowadays barely anything else but sabo TRs? Because the other paths have been nerfed to the point even non TR players feel sorry for you if you use them. Myself i have always been using the executioner path (even before it was called that way). It was always high (burst) damage high risk path as you lose stealth after the initial attack and you become vulnerable. So the first hit has to count. Which it simply dosent right now and you basically autolose against any semi competent player.
You think I, or many other TRs enjoy it to slowly CoS enemies to death? Thats what a HR is for, thank you very much (who is actually right now the best counter to a TR). But its the only truly viable path left now, and despite all the whining i am reading in this and similar threads, its still no autowin button, if your opponent is skilled. So if the other paths are made viable again, you will see far less of your hated piercing damage. The SE is a problem, for which the best solution is to rework it to the way it worked before its current form, as as already been suggested in this thread.
OH and if you where to remove piercing damage right now and change nothing else for the TR, i invite you to exclusivly play one in pvp. Heck i will even supply you with a decent starter equipment. I will give you one week tops before you ragequit...
Comments
that is a good 50% dps loss for exe tr.
I was just trying to be helpful, as how you had stated it by saying "Scoundrel tree.... together with Knife's Edge and SoD" looked like you thought that Scoundrels can get SoD, which is the executioner capstone. Lack of punctuation killed any sort of clarity.
If you noticed, I'm saying that GWFs and SWs should have some defense from Shocking Execution and I don't defend SE as it is at all. Try recognizing who your allies are in an argument, or you just show yourself to be argumentative without a purpose.
While scoundrel was not perfectly balanced in Mod 5, it was the closest of the trees to being so, as it was the one TR path that could not reasonably restealth. As well, it has the WORST tier 1 and tier 2 feats of any trees in the game. It's been nerfed to death already, losing the movement speed and gaining an ICD, so you may want to stop whining about it and get over it.
If needed, the audio queue can be just removed. Other dailies are insta-cast, you don't have an indication that it's coming, so SE, ice knife exc...should just have the audio queue either removed or the animation shortened so it's not so easy to dodge in 1v1.
Every class should have a fair chance to land attacks and dodge. Every attack should be a 50%-50% to either get hit or dodge.
A player should increase his chances through skills/ prediction. Should be like this on both sides.
So i should not dodge SE cause the audio queue is telling me "hey, hi dude, i'm shocking execution and i'm about to drop!", but may be cause, for example, i see the DC sigil symbol popping at some point, so i know that in few seconds a daily could come.
This, or either have a stun/ daze that, if landed, allows the TR to safely land SE, if dodged, forces the TR to take the risk and try to time his SE when the enemy is, for example, out of stamina.
SE does not need nerf but a proper timing/dodge mechanic, damage buffed but respecting DR/tenacity.
As i said above, it should hit THAT hard, but for example on low HP targets. It's the supposed use cause if you look at it, the added bonus of the daily is AP refill if you hit a low HP target. Plus, it's an execution. Execution means you kill and enemy who is already beaten/ almost dead. Not dropping randomly a nuke on a full HP/ almost full HP target to bring him on his knees. That's not what execution means.
And in fact, the use of the daily is clearly wrong these days since the TRs just don't even time it...they shoot it. Usually on the 2 classes who they know cannot dodge it. It's used as a tool to bring 2 classes on their knees, for free.
That GWF is outplaying you and killing you? No problem. Pop DC sigil. Wait a few seconds. Take down 40-50-60k HP from the GWF, for free, then kill him.
This MMO is supposed to have action, proactive combat where you have to aim and time your hits, and dodge. Or it would be better to play an old-fashioned point-and-click mmorpg. Am i right?
Example: GWF vs GWF i had today. Me and the other GWF pretty close to each others. Killing or being killed by few HPs. Duel is, if the GWF kows how to play, a mix of hits and sprint to make the enemy waste his encounters. Being so close, each hit counts. I lost a duel cause i timed my IBS wrong and he dodged it sprinting out of range. I won another duel timing my sprint and dodging his FLS, or kiting his unstoppable so he could not build stacks, taking advantage of the plaguefire vs vorpal mechanic.
It was fun, it was action-packed, and more of all the winner was, each time, the one who could time his attacks better, or dodge better.
Here and there we still have this kind of fights inter-class too. But it's now being replaced with passive mechanics that you don't really need to time, or that you just need to "spam".
Would be good to have the combat system figured out and with more skills involved...
But players are so lazy.
On the second point.... YES. I say scrap the current numbers and power applications, and just redesign based on the combat system being the core of the game (and block users from applying hard-locks).
OPs yes I have and everybody knows that how broken that class is. HR, I probably have mentioned the chain CC/daze but never directly asked for nerf. GF combo death? Please show me. I said I have a GF and it's funny how I can burst someone down faster especially with anvil and I mentioned something about to this effect. Do I want it nerfed? Hell no, I love this on my GF. Helps me kill TRs. I even had an TR accuse of cheating because little did he know, I play TR and I know what to expect and anticipated his move. Stealth > smokebomb > cos > roll. Where are you getting this? If memory serves me right, you have more posts to nerf threads especially with TRs. Talk about someone with issues (or say hidden agenda). Let me remind you that I run TR, GWF, GF, CW and SW. For what it's worth, if you look through my post history, I have said if you take away something from TR, there is no issue, just give something back in exchange to be competitive at the same gear level. Either way it's a win/win for me. Take it from my TR, then it helps my other classes. Just annoying to see the amount of complaints on the TR when we all know there are more serious balance issues. Yes I am looking at the OP class. You would think that should take more priority especially after the SO nerf. So should we just keep nerfing one class while we let the other run rampartly broken? Last post on this thread. Again, take something, put something back in exchange.
you have this problem of putting words in others mouths. im getting tired of it. i cannot name a discussion you havnt used that sentence in. you have asked for every class to be nerfed all in one mod. im not kidding look at your post history. you cry and cry because you apparently lack skill to kill anything. learn 2 play before you start complaining.
+1 to this
SE is getting its inevitable nerf to piercing damage, and while that is the only point of being an "assassin" anymore, one or two classes have a right to complain about it.
In return, some of the TR powers need to be massively tuned up, increase base damage that is not piercing, lower cooldowns, bigger range.
Firstly, Lashing Blade.
If you're an LB user in PvP, it's not about "good luck landing that on someone" --because that's just plain skill-- rather it's about whether after you land it, is it even worth the effort. On a CW, OP, GF, GWF, DC, you're going to be lucky to score a 10K Lashing Blade. If you built it with first strike, maybe you will see up to 20K but that's it. That's an encounter with a high miss rate and a long cooldown.
Thinking deeper, Lashing Blade is the TR equivalent of the GWF's Indomitable Battle Strike. Both are easy to miss, both need to be set up carefully to use, both should deal burst damage. IBS does enough damage for the hard work. LB doesn't. If you want to set up a sure hit with Lashing Blade, you need to;
(a) daze the opponent first - giving up first strike - 75% less damage
(b) a surprise attack, the enemy doesn't know you're there, standing still
But for all that hard work, even GWF at will or a CW passive could hit harder.
Secondly, Blitz
How is it not funny that Hidden Daggers (the GWF's knock off of TR's Blitz) happens to do more damage than Lashing Blade, and has charges.
Impact Shot
This power was nerfed when it was possible to chain-spam Impact Shots to kill CWs (the most popular target at the time). Now even if you buff Impact Shot damage twofolds, and chain it six times, you would still do more damage using Clouds of Steel... which leads to this comparison... Clouds of Steel spam does more damage than Impact Shots. At Will vs Encounter. I mean, come on!
Wicked Reminder
PS: There's a bug, it multiproc's Lostmauth's Vengeance 4x and Shadow of Opportunity 2x, when used from stealth. That has to do with the application of the debuff part, also activates effects like LoL and SO. But all you're going to hit with Wicked Reminder is wicked air, and it still does pathetic damage.
Shadowy Disappearance
... is a joke. The only use for it is (from what I've seen others do) glitching through dungeon maps, or getting themselves stuck in the gauntlgrym node.
TL;DR
The point wasn't to b*tch how a GWF or CW does better in terms of "normal damage", but that's what a DPS class is entitled to. A TR is a single-target striker therefore base damage, cooldowns and hit-miss chances should be brought up to those levels.
Right now, the only thing that sets apart the TR, the only thing that makes it a viable in PvP, is piercing damage. Piercing damage is not the right way to go. Remove all piercing damage from the game and buff up the TR's base dps to GWF and CW levels.
While at it, remember to put all those changes in the Executioner tree, or some of it in Scoundrel, because Saboteur is the permastealth tree and shouldn't be the highest dps path!
PS:
Rework First Strike to "apply on first encounter power on entering stealth, not on entering combat" like Shadowborn. When you see a 70K SE, that's just cuz SE is nuts. But when you see a 120K SE...that's First Strike in action. Dailies are meant to be a finisher, you don't open with a daily, First Strike shouldn't proc on either at wills or dailies.
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
Maybe then the Devs will finally have the sense to buff the correct paths that fits the role of a single-target melee striker.
"Pre-mod 5 [Devs talking] This class does no damage in PvE... Let's add piercing to the Sabo tree. While at it, lets give perma the one-shot effect. Forget the rest, this is easier work. Hey, do you want to grab a beer or something?"
You are wrong on so many levels pal. I did not state to compare what a fight between a GWF and TR may look like or might end up. I compare two encounters, their power interactions and executions, in the premise that they are the highest burst encounter available to either class--two melee dps class--to establish a fair baseline.
I know how IBS is a difficult skill, and I understand the mechanics behind it. You obviously have no idea how to land a Lashing Blade against a moving target, and you don't understand how First Strike works.
To land a strong IBS, you build up the stacks required, you stun to immobilize the target, time those stuns properly, and strike.
To land a WEAK Lashing Blade, you daze the target first, and strike. A weak LB has about the same damage as an at-will.
To land a sure-hit Lashing Blade, you use Courage Breaker to immobilize by a 90% slow...which, if you have some sense, is pointless, because at that point, just use Shocking Execution.
To land a STRONG Lashing Blade, you use First Strike. If you use First Strike, there is no "Dazing the enemy with Smoke Bomb" or "slowing them with CB". This is the first attack, one time and one time only. Targets move, they press the WASD keys. A step in the wrong direction as you predict your target's movement is enough to make you miss a First Strike Lashing Blade.
But that's OK and all.
What's not OK, is for all that hard work, Lashing Blade would still do a pathetic 10-15K post-mitigation, whereas a commparatively difficult GWF's IBS would take half of your health. Don't even get me started on CW passives that activate on their own.
Out of 10 TRs, maybe 1 or 2 can land a First Strike Lashing Blade, 5 of whom would just tell you you are stupid for trying, and then there is the matter of reseting First Strike. Another story, different time.
-
If you want us TRs to agree to removing all piercing, removing all permastealth and removing ITC, this is the compromise we demand. We should do as much normal damage as any striker class. GWF isn't even a pure striker. You are also an off tank. CW is a controller striker. TR is a total melee striker. So why the hell is it that the only viable build for PvP is a ranged freakin permastealth?!
Please think first before quoting me. It's all I ask. Thank you.
See, we are finally in agreement. All you need now is a lesson in manners but you won't find it in the forums.
Cannot resist on this one. I agree and perhaps reclass to brawler instead of assassin.
"If TR will loose permastealth, fix ITC and fix piercing i agree that damage should be increased."
See, we are finally in agreement. All you need now is a lesson in manners but you won't find it in the forums.[/quote]
i think ,..just fix perma stealth...sorry MI/sabo, perma is broken.
im a TR also...please Don'T fixing ITC and piercing ...its working as intended
about SE doing piercing dmg...its called execution..means..supposed to be very deadly...
just make SE 10' range radius..
peace....
hahha..yes yes i know...xsayajinx1...
SE still overpower actually,...yes i think its a finisher...like in mortal kombat...FINISH HIM!....
i think TR is hammered with alot of nerfs from previous2 version..but they still maintain the superiority in pvp..
because TR feats its all good...except scoundrel..maybe .mmm .but lately i see alot WK and scoundrel build...good!! the feat /paragon TR can stand against anything...
so TRs dont worry ithink LOL
Dude in your post before you asked for MASSIVELY up damage on encounters so why the F you talking about First strike skill? Or you want maybe 1 shot with Lashing? If TR will loose permastealth, fix ITC and fix piercing i agree that damage should be increased. So don't cry how Lashing weak right now. And if damage will increased you gonna Courage B, smoke and land Lashing with no problem with decent amount of damage.
But anyway PIERCING MUST go away as skilless, crapy type of damage.
[/quote]
I think you dont think your point really through. First of all, i main a GF but also have a well equipped TR.
Do you know why you see nowadays barely anything else but sabo TRs? Because the other paths have been nerfed to the point even non TR players feel sorry for you if you use them. Myself i have always been using the executioner path (even before it was called that way). It was always high (burst) damage high risk path as you lose stealth after the initial attack and you become vulnerable. So the first hit has to count. Which it simply dosent right now and you basically autolose against any semi competent player.
You think I, or many other TRs enjoy it to slowly CoS enemies to death? Thats what a HR is for, thank you very much (who is actually right now the best counter to a TR). But its the only truly viable path left now, and despite all the whining i am reading in this and similar threads, its still no autowin button, if your opponent is skilled. So if the other paths are made viable again, you will see far less of your hated piercing damage. The SE is a problem, for which the best solution is to rework it to the way it worked before its current form, as as already been suggested in this thread.
OH and if you where to remove piercing damage right now and change nothing else for the TR, i invite you to exclusivly play one in pvp. Heck i will even supply you with a decent starter equipment. I will give you one week tops before you ragequit...