What changes do you think could bring over more people to play CO?

reiwulf · November 2015

We all know by now that not many people are playing this game, there's no need to bring up the charts or anything, this is not a topic about low population, but to suggest some ideas that could be useful.
I would love to hear your opinions on what changes (try to keep it reasonable) could help to bring in more people to CO? Either new players or returning players?
very probably the devs won't change anything based on this, but still it would be interesting to hear your opinions on what changes could help with population.

To me, some changes that could really help with population would be to find a fair way to give a taste of freeform to silver players, the specifics would have to be discussed, but many ideas have been given in the topic about it.
Other idea would be to have daily quests in areas other than MC, maybe each day have 1 quest in each different area. this has been also discussed in other topic.
And a final idea would be to find a way to have more comic adventures, maybe not creating new maps but editing them (like the exterior of whiteout).

what are your ideas?

jonsills · November 2015

I think making one of the two free-to-play slots a Silver FF slot might help some. Come on, kid, the first hit's free...

However, the thing that would help most, the one without which none of the rest would mean squat, would be an increase in the advertising budget from its current effective level of zero. If it hadn't been for a banner ad on Facebook back when FFA started, I wouldn't be aware of CO to this day.

reiwulf · November 2015

oh yeah, that's true and I forgot about it.
Even though extensive advertising can cost money, there's a number of things you can do that are not expensive. I remember a while ago we had lots of posts in FB about the game, fanart, and other things. Now I hardly ever see they post anything about the game.

xrazamax · November 2015

I hate to say it since you asked for "reasonable" ideas but, honestly the big thing that would bring in a ton of new players is if they gave silvers a freeform slot. Freeform is the single best thing about Champions and the majority of its players can't experience it.

reiwulf · November 2015

I don't think it's unreasonable, actually it was on my opening post XD

heartstringsk3 · November 2015

reiwulf said:
To me, some changes that could really help with population would be to find a fair way to give a taste of freeform to silver players, the specifics would have to be discussed, but many ideas have been given in the topic about it.

A think a simpler thing that might attract people is to just let people play any Archetype. People who subscribe or go lifetime just make Freeforms, and people who play Silver probably don't waste their Zen on buying ATs, and frankly the way ATs work in this game is ridiculously limiting already, so even opening up half of the "Gold" ATs would be good.

For the record, I do think it's nice that the last two events have allowed Silver players to unlock a couple new ATs, but that doesn't help new players.

reiwulf · November 2015

sadly I missed those events lol. I have bought the savage which is pretty good, and the martial arts one wich is okay-ish.
another idea that I realy think would be cool (and they did it in the past) is the make villain concept contests, where we design villains with the costume creator and theyr backstories or goals, and the winners get their villains added for alerts and other stuff. I thought it was really cool when they did it on the first times

(mad rock is one of them I think)

sterga · November 2015

They could actually update their damn YouTube channel. At the very least, there should be short clips of everything you can buy in the cash shop. If someone is looking for superheroes, they might stumble on a video for Champs and give the game a look. I don't know how useful traditional advertisement is anymore.

Although, with the rotating events they're doing, it might be their advertisement. Normally, when a game turns an event on, it shows up on the news outlets.

And yes, I agree with having at least one of the filthy silver slots being a FF slot. It's like the biggest selling point of the game along with the fancy dress-up doll game.

ladygadfly · November 2015

reiwulf said:

very probably the devs won't change anything based on this

You'd be surprised.

reiwulf said:

what are your ideas?

Let's hear them!

pallas0001 · November 2015

I'd really enjoy more headquarters/ lairs. At the VERY least, fully open the rooms we cannot access now.

Right now, we have so many super heroes who have a moon base and millennium city penthouse property its not funny.

Unknown · November 2015

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sigmaseven0 · November 2015

1. I think a free Free Form slot is one of the sexiest things they could do. I have a LTS and i strongly recommend this.
2. Give NPC groups a face lift. There was a costume contest on the forums a while ago where people used the costume creator to redesign NPCs. The Devs should use official forum costume contests to update all major villain groups you see in the game. Coming back to the game with a new FF slot and redesigned NPCs would make it feel fresh and worth revisiting. Costume contests are a staple of CO culture and should be leveraged by the devs.
3. Make better use of in-game real estate. Millennium City is well designed with many nice landmarks that are underused. For example: Argent HQ Mind Inc HQ and many interesting landmarks on the east side. There should be repeatable Level agnostic rewarding content at any cool looking landmark in MC. There is too much focus on the west side and there are many areas in north and east MC that would provide a nice backdrop for heroic fights. These places should at least be used in alerts.
4. Make better use of the PNP ip. DCUO does a better job of world building and story telling.
5. Reward progression. People hate the gear treadmill but having things to strive for is part of what keeps people playing MMOs. Try to achieve a horizontal progression with more unique mods as rewards and think of rewards that provide new synergies between existing frameworks. For example elemental melee powers as rewards.

spinnytop · November 2015

Booby jiggle physics.

and oddly enough, better flat chested girls.

Damn internet, you scary u3u

Unknown · November 2015

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spinnytop · November 2015

Hey I have an idea, surprised nobody mentioned it yet. Why not implement the reputation system from STO into CO?

kaosarcanna · November 2015

Here's an idea ... what if Zen purchases by Silvers earned points for a freeform slot? After they had purchased and applied $50.00 Zen to their accounts they get one freeform slot? (And by that, I mean what if points accumulated after each purchase ... so instead of having to kick out $50.00 at once maybe they buy 3 $20.00 Zen cards over a year and get a Freeform slot?

biffsmackwell · November 2015

kaosarcanna said:
Here's an idea ... what if Zen purchases by Silvers earned points for a freeform slot? After they had purchased and applied $50.00 Zen to their accounts they get one freeform slot? (And by that, I mean what if points accumulated after each purchase ... so instead of having to kick out $50.00 at once maybe they buy 3 $20.00 Zen cards over a year and get a Freeform slot?

I was going to suggest something like this, but it would need to be more than that for it to be worth it for Cryptic. No one would straight-up buy a freeform slot for $50 if you could buy $50 worth of costumes or keys and then get a "free" freeform out of it.

xcelsior41 · November 2015

pallas0001 said:
I'd really enjoy more headquarters/ lairs. At the VERY least, fully open the rooms we cannot access now.

Right now, we have so many super heroes who have a moon base and millennium city penthouse property its not funny.

^
This.

kaosarcanna · November 2015

biffsmackwell said:

kaosarcanna said:
Here's an idea ... what if Zen purchases by Silvers earned points for a freeform slot? After they had purchased and applied $50.00 Zen to their accounts they get one freeform slot? (And by that, I mean what if points accumulated after each purchase ... so instead of having to kick out $50.00 at once maybe they buy 3 $20.00 Zen cards over a year and get a Freeform slot?

I was going to suggest something like this, but it would need to be more than that for it to be worth it for Cryptic. No one would straight-up buy a freeform slot for $50 if you could buy $50 worth of costumes or keys and then get a "free" freeform out of it.

It depends on how many Freeform slots they are selling now. If they're selling like hotcakes then, yeah. The price would have to be quite a bit higher. If they aren't, then having them go for say, 60 bucks Zen spent would work out fine.

gemini2099 · November 2015

As a silver player FF is not that important to me.

They should just work on improving the free AT and opening up more character slots for free players. From 2--->4.

Next, they need a max level area that is set in the city to be able to do world content or street sweeping.

Most important the citizen tip missions need to be available for level capped players. This would add replay value for character that are level capped and you want to take them on a spin.

Opening up tailoring options I would say is the biggest and most important change that needs to happen.

Radical changes are not necessary, but a lot of small changes that add up to a better experience is definitely needed.

xcelsior41 · November 2015

gemini2099 said:
As a silver player FF is not that important to me.

They should just work on improving the free AT and opening up more character slots for free players. From 2--->4.

Next, they need a max level area that is set in the city to be able to do world content or street sweeping.

Most important the citizen tip missions need to be available for level capped players. This would add replay value for character that are level capped and you want to take them on a spin.

Opening up tailoring options I would say is the biggest and most important change that needs to happen.

Radical changes are not necessary, but a lot of small changes that add up to a better experience is definitely needed.

I agree, though I am gold, when I was silver I did not enjoy only have two slots and..I think 6(?) or so ATs to choose from(been awhile since I was silver.) More options than space allotted.

In regards to the tip missions/replay: the keyword is "Fun". If those tips that are added are too much of a slog(think VB apoc.) or are not very rewarding(mechanon/pretty much all the help a citizen mishs currently). Then they won't be played/it'll detract from the fun factor of repeatable mishs.

biffsmackwell · November 2015

Maybe whenever you hit 40 with a character as a Silver player, they could offer a big discount on a new character slot?

spinnytop · November 2015

I still say free Freeform Slot. Maybe make them play an Archetype to 40 first.

Discount on a poor-people slot when you hit 40 sounds good too; make it so that you can only have one discount at a time, i.e. if you level another 40 without having purchased the discounted slot you don't get another discounted slot, you still only have the one. That way players feel like they have to buy the discounted slot right away to avoid missing out on the next one.

jonsills · November 2015

gemini2099 wrote: »

Next, they need a max level area that is set in the city to be able to do world content or street sweeping.

Most important the citizen tip missions need to be available for level capped players. This would add replay value for character that are level capped and you want to take them on a spin.

Problem here is that these are ideas that may or may not aid in player retention (some players will move on regardless, others will stay even without this) - but the point of this thread is finding ways to attract more players, not just keep existing ones. If you can't get new eyes on the game, all the endgame in the world won't help.

xcelsior41 · November 2015

jonsills said:

gemini2099 wrote: »

Next, they need a max level area that is set in the city to be able to do world content or street sweeping.

Most important the citizen tip missions need to be available for level capped players. This would add replay value for character that are level capped and you want to take them on a spin.

True.
Though I think what most players are finding(those who stick around, that is.) is that, upon reaching 40, there's not much to do(AP can be played at 10+ so, by 40, if you've been doing everything you can, I'm sure your going to be tired of Luther black/VIPER :P). End game could definitely help(or maybe a lair overpass? That could garner some interest.) the overall thing is: If ya don't try, you'll never know

.

championshewolf · November 2015

We need more quests, more end game content, more dungeons for leveling and realistic loot to go after. The mods are there but aren't offered up as loot other than excessive grindables, and quite frankly, the alert system killed adventuring in Champions.

And quite frankly, no new permanent zones for questing or alternative questing zones hurt the game as well. On a scale level, Champions is smaller than our contemporaries, just because of the distance our travel powers let us cover in such a time. We need more zones, specifically city zones and perhaps new starter experiences and mid level stuff as well as end game stuff.

xcelsior41 · November 2015

championshewolf said:
We need more quests, more end game content, more dungeons for leveling and realistic loot to go after. The mods are there but aren't offered up as loot other than excessive grindables, and quite frankly, the alert system killed adventuring in Champions.

And quite frankly, no new permanent zones for questing or alternative questing zones hurt the game as well. On a scale level, Champions is smaller than our contemporaries, just because of the distance our travel powers let us cover in such a time. We need more zones, specifically city zones and perhaps new starter experiences and mid level stuff as well as end game stuff.

^
This

chaelk · November 2015

replace the mission rewards gear on the levelling missions. The stats look like someone grabbed the first couple of the old gear and used them, there are a lot of really weird stat combos on that gear.
Tell people when they get to the right level, "you can now go to Canada/Desert/ Monster Island/ Juryrig or VB apocalypse

being able to ask questions when you first start, you know when you're in the 20hr chat ban. so a new players channel, which they are automatically on

being told where the info is- the ? button on the minimap.

having a link to the wiki clearly marked on the minimap

Having a getting and handing in missions tutorial, explaining how the map and remote hand in works and that not all mission givers are on it.

returning the explore Ren center mission, so new people learn where the mail box and AH are.

roughbearmattach · November 2015

chaelk said:
replace the mission rewards gear on the levelling missions. The stats look like someone grabbed the first couple of the old gear and used them, there are a lot of really weird stat combos on that gear.

Tell people when they get to the right level, "you can now go to Canada/Desert/ Monster Island/ Juryrig or VB apocalypse

being able to ask questions when you first start, you know when you're in the 20hr chat ban. so a new players channel, which they are automatically on

being told where the info is- the ? button on the minimap.

having a link to the wiki clearly marked on the minimap

Having a getting and handing in missions tutorial, explaining how the map and remote hand in works and that not all mission givers are on it.

returning the explore Ren center mission, so new people learn where the mail box and AH are.

All great suggestions here.

I would also vote for simply making all ATs either free or unlockable at some point with in-game currency.

eiledon · November 2015

roughbearmattach wrote: »

All great suggestions here.

I would also vote for simply making all ATs either free or unlockable at some point with in-game currency.

Technically they are all already unlockable via in-game currency - that is what Questionite is for. It is just unfortunate that players have to deal with a Q > Z exchange rate which is almost at maximum for the system so buying zstore items via Questionite can be slow going.

guyhumual · November 2015

I think CO has been on the right path as of late, giving players a chance to unlock something by playing the game is always a good way to keep silver players. I'd also say a free form character should be more accessible, lower the price in the zen store, maybe create some way for players to earn a free form in the game in some other way besides Q farming? If you can wrap that into a community event, like say adding it to the nemesis vendor, bought with champion tokens, I'd say that would be a plus. Being a rampaging super villain would be a lot more fun if you had lots of silver players to squash.

reiwulf · November 2015

there's been many really good ideas so far, keep them coming!

spinnytop · November 2015

championshewolf said:
We need more quests, more end game content, more dungeons for leveling and realistic loot to go after. The mods are there but aren't offered up as loot other than excessive grindables, and quite frankly, the alert system killed adventuring in Champions.

And quite frankly, no new permanent zones for questing or alternative questing zones hurt the game as well. On a scale level, Champions is smaller than our contemporaries, just because of the distance our travel powers let us cover in such a time. We need more zones, specifically city zones and perhaps new starter experiences and mid level stuff as well as end game stuff.

We can say that until we're blue in the face, but it always comes back to the catch 22. They don't have the money to hire people to make new zones. The current tiny team, which is apparently still floating between projects, can't do it. So why don't they just put more money into CO? Because nothing indicates that a new zone would make the game generate more money to cover those costs... after all, what would you need to spend money on if there was a new zone? what would a new zone make you want to spend money on? Do MMOs get a lot of new players when they announce a new zone, or do they just get old players to come back? Are our old players going to come back and spend a bunch of money, or are they just going to come back, tear through the zone, and then complain that it wasn't enough and say the "tiny new zone" is a slap in the face and unleash a tidal wave of negativity on the forums and zone chat while solidifying their decision to "never spend money on this game until the devs do what I demand]"?

I mean yeah, getting new zones seems like it would be neat... but the number they would have needed to add just seems like it was never feasible with the continuing staffing issues.

On the other hand, more quests, more end game content, more dungeons, new starter experiences and mid level stuff all without relying on new zones seems like it would help the game a lot, and it's the kind of stuff that can be made with small development leaps, rather than the development plane ride that a full zone would take.

reiwulf · November 2015

exactly, I think changes that require little effort and at the same time big results are the way to go for now,

xrazamax · November 2015

-If access to freeform isn't made more easily accessible to Silver players, then at the very least current ATs need to be reviewed and given more options in power selection. There is just not as much build choice when it comes to many of the older ATs (aka the free ones)

-I almost hate to bring this up because people on the forums snub their nose down at pvp, but to retain NEW players, Hero games needs a tad bit attention. New players will often want to know how the pvp in a game is. One easy addition to make pvp more attractive is a seasonal rank board that displays the top 10 players for each PVP game. The other is to put PVP gear in the Acclaim store. The gear would make it so players who want to participate in pvp do not have to grind out Justice Gear and Onslaught Gear to be competitive. It would make an easier pathway to being able to participate in pvp, and allow players gear up with acclaim points. The gear would ideally have pvp centric stats that would make it attractive purely for pvp purposes and would be inferior to other gear in terms of PVE.

^That is my big two ideas. Give players the real CO experience by giving them freeform or more build customization, and then spruce up pvp which has been shown to really help with retention of players in MMOs*. All the cool kids are doing it these days.

*I heard this from Extra Credits

spinnytop · November 2015

xrazamax said:

-I almost hate to bring this up because people on the forums snub their nose down at pvp, but to retain NEW players, Hero games needs a tad bit attention. New players will often want to know how the pvp in a game is. One easy addition to make pvp more attractive is a seasonal rank board that displays the top 10 players for each PVP game. The other is to put PVP gear in the Acclaim store. The gear would make it so players who want to participate in pvp do not have to grind out Justice Gear and Onslaught Gear to be competitive. It would make an easier pathway to being able to participate in pvp, and allow players gear up with acclaim points. The gear would ideally have pvp centric stats that would make it attractive purely for pvp purposes and would be inferior to other gear in terms of PVE.

A good start would be making it possible for people to reliably que for non-BASH pvp without randomly getting kicked out of the game after joining. That would certainly make an easier pathway to being able to participate in pvp

Then some of the stuff you said. I'm not to keen on that scoreboard tho.

draogn · November 2015

I'm not sure, you really only get one first impression, imo the changes to the Onslaught stuff is moving it in the wrong direction. They should be trying to make it less grind and fun/engaging for both sides.

Something like the foundry wouldn't hurt. Opening up the ATs a little might also be a good idea, let players mix and match powers from ATs they own, nothing else needs to change stats and colors are still locked to the initial choices.

There are parts of the tailor that have become an eye sore, the purposed overhaul is a nice start but there are many broken or incomplete pieces, some of the options still clip through the basic model, (if you have a female character use the basic tight piece then start running and jumping, watch the shoulders and sides of your character).

The variable robot collection is another example of a poorly designed set, it doesn't come close to matching what was submitted, and it still clips around the stomach area on the female model. Adding more layers and depth would also be nice. More skin decorations (tattoos, tiger stripes, ect) and options to go with those decorations would be nice.

crypticbuxom · November 2015

What would be nice is a freeform character slot granted when you get one character to max level no matter what the account. This incentive makes players play the game to max level, maybe play a great deal of the content, and then play the game some more beyond that to play with freeform. It might surprise them enough to want to put money into the game for more of that.

And this free freeform slot for Black Friday is a brilliant first step!

kinster2 · November 2015

user generated content would finally be nice

reiwulf · November 2015

keeping with the small changes that would help, they could make more alert variety. we have several maps that could be used, even different parts of MC or other maps that could be used for new alerts. For example, the exterior of the hospital could be used for an alert where we have to defend it from . the same for some already existing building interiors, like the champions HQ.same with Vibora Bay, we could have an undead invasion nearby the graveyard.

missmaeheym · November 2015

reiwulf said:
We all know by now that not many people are playing this game, there's no need to bring up the charts or anything, this is not a topic about low population, but to suggest some ideas that could be useful.
I would love to hear your opinions on what changes (try to keep it reasonable) could help to bring in more people to CO? Either new players or returning players?
very probably the devs won't change anything based on this, but still it would be interesting to hear your opinions on what changes could help with population.

To me, some changes that could really help with population would be to find a fair way to give a taste of freeform to silver players, the specifics would have to be discussed, but many ideas have been given in the topic about it.
Other idea would be to have daily quests in areas other than MC, maybe each day have 1 quest in each different area. this has been also discussed in other topic.
And a final idea would be to find a way to have more comic adventures, maybe not creating new maps but editing them (like the exterior of whiteout).

what are your ideas?

NEW CONTENT Nothing turns off MMO game players more consistently than a lack of regularly introduced new content to keep the adventure fresh. The lack of it ultimately drove me away....

-- Miss Mayhem (aka Sanction aka W.A.R.H.E.A.D. aka Mynx aka Blackstone)

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jonsills · November 2015

I don't think the Armada system can translate (what, you're going to send your old costumes out to fight crime on your behalf?), but I've outlined a few times how I think something analogous to the DOff system could work here. Personally, I'd like that, because I think it would make the game world feel more "alive" to have your Contacts doing things while you're not there.

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jonsills · November 2015

Oh, that thing. Only use I have for it is a way to get rid of extra useable items (shield generators, large power supplies, etc) when my own fleet's projects are finished. I don't really think it'd be a useful addition to this game.

spinnytop · December 2015

a1fighter said:

CO is a money grab, but they are short-sighted. What keeps subs in DCUO is gear progression. CO relies too much on the Z store imo.

Gear progression would be a terrible idea currently due to the massive power gap between players. Even once the gap is narrowed ( and DR caps raised to allow higher tier gear to even relevantly gate players ), it'd be such a jarring change to suddenly go from a "you can do whatever you like" to "you have to gear up before you can do this" dynamic... I can already hear the people with 100+ characters groaning at the idea of having to climb that gear ladder 100+ times. Then throw in the fact that a new tier of gear that allows you to do a small amount of new content would then trivialize previous content even more...

Also, CO is not a money grab. I don't think you've played a game that is a money grab if you think CO is one ( or you're just throwing around the "money grab" buzz word just to do it, like some people are prone to do ). CO has plenty of stuff for you to buy, sure, but it hardly gives you much motivation to buy it. Their super aggressive sales pitch is something along the lines of, "You wanna buy this? I mean you don't need it, it's really up to you... no? Okay." Real money grab games turn you into a second class citizen if you don't spend anything. As someone who played only Archetypes for years and didn't buy anything due to poverty, I can assure you that this game welcomes free players like nearly no other game does.

jonsills · December 2015

Spinny, a1 has made it clear that he's only playing CO until one of the CoH clones comes to fruition, assuming they ever do - he's already claimed that Valiance Online will "destroy" CO. Of course he's going to grab any buzzword he can find to badmouth this game.

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chaelk · December 2015

DCUO has a large budget to do updates,a well known brand name and a lot of advertising.
CO has stuff all budget due to neglect for the last 3-4 years, a little known name and zero advertising.

any changes need to be something a very small team of Devs can do

End game we have zero off. Each time we have been told that they have big plans, nothing happens , usually because there is an emergency in one of the other games.

Gear progression requires a lot of endgame, though on DCUO's case, it starts off with repeating lairs each day, at increasing difficulty level. A small group of them, every day to get the tokens to get the gear to do the next set of dailies.

Here that would be doing the instanced Boss missions on higher difficulty. How many of those do people already run on Elite from the start?

What changes do you think could bring over more people to play CO?

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