I think that because apart from Q, who did have "morals" such as they are; all the others appeared in one-time episodes. Whenever a race, creature or being appeared in an episode of Star Trek, it never had to be used again and could safely be ignored. That's the difference between serial and episodic...you can honestly pick and choose what you want to ever use again in an episode, where as your hand is forced to run with a bad idea used in a serial.
It's like Threshold. I'd give anything for that episode not to exist, because it ruins speeds over Warp 10 and was obviously written by someone who didn't know that Warp 13 was no problem. They were never forced to reference it again though, so that's fine. If a Warp 10 barrier had appeared in Disco, then they wouldn't have been able to ignore it.
So, you've had many, many races who could obliterate the quadrant, galaxy, universe and space-time continuum...but the giant space hand hasn't forced the makers of the earlier shows to.
I'll say it again...if Disco was episodic, I honestly don't like the series' premise or its characters, but I might have been able to enjoy the odd episode. If one writer could be charged with an episode, do the best job they could with what they have to work with, instead of having to compensate for a dodgy plot development or something that they really don't want to work with and it shows, maybe Disco could have been redeemed.
What you describe is, IMO, a point in Discovery's favor.
Any series constantly introducing these sort of galaxy level threats, and then only using them for one episode, never to be seen or mentioned again, is very poorly written, and not treating its own concepts with the respect/importance they deserve. This is a problem with episodic storytelling in general, nothing can really matter, or go anywhere, because its never going to be talked about/mentioned again after that episode.
One of the things I like most about Discovery and Picard is that its been taking these tropes from older Star Treks, and giving them season long storylines that actually teat them with the level of seriousness they should've had in the older shows. Only DS9's Dominion War, and Enterprise's Xindi conflict(two of the best parts of old Trek IMO), can match it. Its refreshing to see a show that cares, instead of treating everything it makes up as disposable like most of the older shows did.
Also, IIRC, Warp 13 back in TOS is only like warp 8 in TNG/later warp scale. So they never actually went "warp 13".
They also went warp 13 in AGT, but given that was a Q-test, who knows how much he TRIBBLE up the basic immutable laws of the universe in the process.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
They also went warp 13 in AGT, but given that was a Q-test, who knows how much he TRIBBLE up the basic immutable laws of the universe in the process.
I think I read somewhere they explained that as them having changed the warp scale again by that time in the future, and the "warp 13" of AGT was actually warp 9.9 or something.
Like Warp 9.9 is 4 billion miles per second...it's just a way of rounded up the speed though, right? I have no idea what Warp 13 would be, it's just a way of saying how many miles. It never made sense that it was a wall...just a measure.
(The forum ate my original post so here I try again but it probably won't be as good as the original.)
What I really dislike about Disc is all the arbitrary large scale threats which utterly ruin my suspension of disbelief. You could have used the Omega molecule for the Burn, but instead you decided to have some random kid form a symbiosis with the Dilithium and render it inert galaxy wide. That's BAD writing, and similar events could happen again.
What if some kid does this in the Delta Quadrant and the Dilithium goes inert again? Burn 2.0? So imagine a normal episode suddenly the burn happens because some kid elsewhere in the galaxy had a tantrum.
This is even worse with the Mycelial network. Remember in season 1 when the Mirror Universe ran the Charon project? According to Stamets that project would kill the Mycelial network, causing EVERY universe to DIE!
They stopped it of course, but what prevents another mirror universe from repeating the process? The mycelial network and how it links all universes and can be killed by someone is bad. Also what about the species living there like the Elachi or those flying fungi creatures? Are they also linked to all universes?
The Kelvin stuff was much easier to stomach as it was generally outside of prime canon with the exception of the destruction of Romulus...which I didn't mind too much because it led to the Iconian and new Romulus storylines here.
But Picard and Disc have severely damaged the universe for me as they're meant to be prime. The Disc stuff in STO have admittedly been written much better than what was on the show, but in the end it still validates the concept from it like the Mycelial network (I'm also not a fan of the Elachi coming from there tbh, I preferred when they were an Iconian servitor race from deep space)
I really hope Star trek can heal one day.
Every threat having to be bigger than the previous one is not limited to Disco though. In fact, we have a lot of that in STO and people have complained about it too on here (I have voiced that criticism in the past as well).
There is a novel where Andoria leaves the Federation due to suffering from some fertility crisis that threatens the existence of the entire species - and the Federation basically sitting on and not sharing the cure. Eventually things are solved thanks to, amongst others, Dr. Bashir and Andoria rejoins.
I didn't read the whole book, I only came across synopsis on Memory Beta. So I don't know about the entire story, but to me it seems this would have been a better thing to do for Disco: start with some crisis that threatens one planet, an improper official response from Federation officials that, in the eyes of other planets, violates Federation ideals, more planets leaving and so on.
Then you could have a big disruption, but as a result of gradual developments, with multiple factors and actions from different agents playing a role (a natural disaster, a political response, a political debate as a result of different opinions, an exploration of different paths following disenchantment and so on).
In fact, they could have given it real life meaning if they had slightly twisted this idea and, instead of going with a fertility crisis, make it about a virus threatening a key member of the Federation. Draconic measures from its government are needed, but how far can that government go and still adhere to the Federation's ideals of freedom, without bringing contacts between world to a total stand-still and will this society recover anyway, or be forced into isolation out of fear of the virus spreading to other worlds...?
Maybe it'd have been too obvious, but at least suspension of disbelief would not be required anymore.
In my opinion, the problem many (including me) are turned off by the dystopian take on the Star Trek universe. TOS and TNG were all about the possibilities for a brilliant future. DS9 went dark with war, mainly because B5 was kicking TNG's butt in syndication rankings. Voyager too was a pretty bleak series, if you take the long view. Enterprise tried to bring back some of the bright future, and if it had gone another two-three seasons I think people would not malign it so much.
but Discovery... Lord. everything is dismal and destroyed and anarchy.
DISCO is wholly the optimism and hope for the future, half the hate it's gotten is for resolving problems through Star Trek hope and diplomacy not star wars pew pew. Disco is doing the bright future through, here's how Star Trek brightness can bring back the light to dark places, it's not erasing it it's committing to that hope and brightness harder than anything since TOS
I didn't read the whole book, I only came across synopsis on Memory Beta. So I don't know about the entire story, but to me it seems this would have been a better thing to do for Disco: start with some crisis that threatens one planet, an improper official response from Federation officials that, in the eyes of other planets, violates Federation ideals, more planets leaving and so on.
Picard already did that, The Federation violated it's Ideals when they abandoned the Romulans to their fate, I would have left the Federation right then and there, TRIBBLE Starfleet, I'm with my man Picard, personally I would put my career on the line if it meant evacuating the romulan people, then they can fire my TRIBBLE for all I care, .Sure the Zhat Vash stabotaged their rescue, but Starfleet should have stuck to their Ideals rather than throwing it all away.
And unless those 18 members threatening to leave were important members for cohesiveness, like the Vulcans or Andorians...I would've just said 'Go ahead...the only one you're hurting is yourself.'
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
The main issue with Discovery is that the alien characters are better written than the human ones, I think Saru should get a spinoff, I like his character the most out of the main cast, plus aside from the Klingons and Ferengi, the make up department did pretty well with Disco Andorians, Disco Tellarites, Disco Aenar, Kelpians, I also liked that they recycled PIC Romulans, while also keeping the same old Vulcans and I'm glad that at least the Trill and Orions still resemble their old selves.
Saru should just be Discovery's permanent Captain, period. He's easily the best main character.
But every time he got to land on the Captain's chair, some circumstance forces him to give it to someone else a while later.
That's one of the various things I hate with DSC: every time something promising happens, it gets replaced or removed.
-Lorca is revealed to be an imposter and oppose the evil emperor? A good-ish Terran, what's that? Well, nvm, he's actually even worse and let's just kill him off in the next episode.
-The Klingons have won the war and are so close to Earth! Next episode: Na, it's OK, they just took some territory, we can manage and we just happen to have something to make them back off. -Anson Mount's Pike well-deservedly steals the spotlight? Well, let's go to the future without him. -Airiam gets some interesting backstory and interactions? BOOM, demo... err, Control possession, dead in the same episode.
-Mirror version of the crew? ISS Discovery is destroyed off-screen. But wait, they show up in S3, so that means we can get to learn a lot more! Just kidding, they almost all die by the next episode, anyway and we don't get to know much about them outside of who is loyal to Georgiou and who isn't.
-Saru as Captain! Yes! Except no. Except yes! Except no.
-Georgiou as the token brutal crewmember who has to adapt in an era where the Terran Empire is long gone or maybe convince the crew to get a bit more pragmatic in a new era. Well, let's do that... for a little while only, because we just remembered she was to be featured in a S31 spin-off, so bye, Georgiou!
-Burnham's mother is still alive due to her last time travel! Such a great opportunity to have some meaningful mother-daughter moments a la Mariner and Freeman........... Yeah, cool, but na, next!
About your point in bold there, I take it you haven't heard that Anson Mount's Pike is going to be in Strange New Worlds, which is going to be in the 23rd century. This should be one good thing that you might want to look forward to.
In my opinion, the problem many (including me) are turned off by the dystopian take on the Star Trek universe. TOS and TNG were all about the possibilities for a brilliant future. DS9 went dark with war, mainly because B5 was kicking TNG's butt in syndication rankings. Voyager too was a pretty bleak series, if you take the long view. Enterprise tried to bring back some of the bright future, and if it had gone another two-three seasons I think people would not malign it so much.
but Discovery... Lord. everything is dismal and destroyed and anarchy.
I'm honestly not sure where you see any of that in Discovery.
Discovery S1 and S2 are still set in the same future where replicators, and free education, healthcare, housing, and food, have eliminated most needs and wants in the future, and an alliance of dozens of worlds have brought peace to a large portion of space, that all the other Trek shows are.
And even when they go into the future in S3 the Federation still exists, and worlds not part of the Federation anymore like Earth, Ni'var, Trill, are still perfectly fine. Even worlds out in the boonies like Hima are portrayed as far future utopian cities. The only real difference is that the lack of dilthium means people can't travel as far, so everyone is looking more inward. There is no chaos, no Mad Max style anarchy.
There is really nothing dystopian about anything in Discovery, or Picard.
In my opinion, the problem many (including me) are turned off by the dystopian take on the Star Trek universe. TOS and TNG were all about the possibilities for a brilliant future. DS9 went dark with war, mainly because B5 was kicking TNG's butt in syndication rankings. Voyager too was a pretty bleak series, if you take the long view. Enterprise tried to bring back some of the bright future, and if it had gone another two-three seasons I think people would not malign it so much.
but Discovery... Lord. everything is dismal and destroyed and anarchy.
I'm honestly not sure where you see any of that in Discovery.
Discovery S1 and S2 are still set in the same future where replicators, and free education, healthcare, housing, and food, have eliminated most needs and wants in the future, and an alliance of dozens of worlds have brought peace to a large portion of space, that all the other Trek shows are.
And even when they go into the future in S3 the Federation still exists, and worlds not part of the Federation anymore like Earth, Ni'var, Trill, are still perfectly fine. Even worlds out in the boonies like Hima are portrayed as far future utopian cities. The only real difference is that the lack of dilthium means people can't travel as far, so everyone is looking more inward. There is no chaos, no Mad Max style anarchy.
There is really nothing dystopian about anything in Discovery, or Picard.
Why are my post getting eaten? Who is needing to approve these things?
And unless those 18 members threatening to leave were important members for cohesiveness, like the Vulcans or Andorians...I would've just said 'Go ahead...the only one you're hurting is yourself.'
It wouldn't make sense if the Vulcans were one of the members threating to leave, since they kind of put the whole romulan reunification thing in motion, it would be Illogical to push Reunification and then change their minds at the last minute, Vulcan should have threated to leave the UFP if the Federation didn't help the Romulans.
That's the site's TRIBBLE spam filter - no one's actually approving anything.
And Vulcans as a whole weren't the ones pushing for reunification - SPOCK was...the Vulcans were probably anywhere from ambivalent to outright hostile to the idea - we've seen what they think of any species who doesn't follow their ideology.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
DISCO's reunification, is alot different (and to me alot better) than Spock's. His movement was shown as assimilation/missionary, bringing vulcan believes and behaviour to romulans, making romulans vulcans, this is the road STO has taken with the republic too but more making Romulan's human.
DISCO has Vulcan and Romulan cultures being unified while retaining their own diversity, cultures and ideologies. Which is more Star Trek and just, is unification not just conquest.
Which puts the UFP membership in different light, as while theoretically this is pure starfleet and UFP, infinite diversity, the federation has been known to put dislike of romulan culture ahead of principal in TOS and TNG, and the Romulan culture of self-sovereignty would have chafed under the federation.
DISCO is wholly the optimism and hope for the future, half the hate it's gotten is for resolving problems through Star Trek hope and diplomacy not star wars pew pew. Disco is doing the bright future through, here's how Star Trek brightness can bring back the light to dark places, it's not erasing it it's committing to that hope and brightness harder than anything since TOS
Disco though...optimistic? There's just no joy to be had. Torturing Tarigrades, Klingon rapists, killing interesting characters, a war that near obliterates the Federation, orphaning, dead husbands (yeah, they brought him back, but still), hellbent on destruction artificial intelligences, then moving onto "The Burn".
I don't know of any joyous thing that happens in the Discoverse. No one's happy, their lives are miserable and meaningless pew pew pew describes it totally, especially in STO.
In my opinion, the problem many (including me) are turned off by the dystopian take on the Star Trek universe. TOS and TNG were all about the possibilities for a brilliant future. DS9 went dark with war, mainly because B5 was kicking TNG's butt in syndication rankings. Voyager too was a pretty bleak series, if you take the long view. Enterprise tried to bring back some of the bright future, and if it had gone another two-three seasons I think people would not malign it so much.
but Discovery... Lord. everything is dismal and destroyed and anarchy.
I wouldn't call Voyager bleak. It was very human...they wanted to go home. It's relatable, but then they stuck to their ideals, helping people along the way and exploring space.
Roddenbery always wanted a war in TOS, but he didn't have the subject to get it. I always wonder what Next Phase would have given up, but then TNG really went on it's continuing mission. DS9 was so dark that it could have gone in any direction and a war fitted...and of course, the probably with B5 was that the Shadow War was so anticlimactic. Vorlons as the bad guys, going off hand-on-hand together, the "Not-So-Great-Machine on Epsilon 5". I knew JMS thought he wasn't going to get a fifth season, so he packed it all into one and of course, had to change so much because of leaving actors...I just know though that somewhere, he has all five seasons and their structure written down. It was a five-season plan.
In my opinion, the problem many (including me) are turned off by the dystopian take on the Star Trek universe. TOS and TNG were all about the possibilities for a brilliant future. DS9 went dark with war, mainly because B5 was kicking TNG's butt in syndication rankings. Voyager too was a pretty bleak series, if you take the long view. Enterprise tried to bring back some of the bright future, and if it had gone another two-three seasons I think people would not malign it so much.
but Discovery... Lord. everything is dismal and destroyed and anarchy.
I'm honestly not sure where you see any of that in Discovery.
Discovery S1 and S2 are still set in the same future where replicators, and free education, healthcare, housing, and food, have eliminated most needs and wants in the future, and an alliance of dozens of worlds have brought peace to a large portion of space, that all the other Trek shows are.
And even when they go into the future in S3 the Federation still exists, and worlds not part of the Federation anymore like Earth, Ni'var, Trill, are still perfectly fine. Even worlds out in the boonies like Hima are portrayed as far future utopian cities. The only real difference is that the lack of dilthium means people can't travel as far, so everyone is looking more inward. There is no chaos, no Mad Max style anarchy.
There is really nothing dystopian about anything in Discovery, or Picard.
Why are my post getting eaten? Who is needing to approve these things?
And yet, the TOS Enterprise didn't have replicators. They were food dispensers, but when Janeway and Harry were talking about the past in "Flashbacks", they mentioned that they had to store their own food back then.
That's one thing Enterprise brought in too late...the Chef turned Counsellor in the very last episode.
Uh, well, lessee...the war ended with NO near-genocide on Starfleet's part, so there's one example of joy...what'shername from the Hiawatha didn't get crushed to death, Pike, Terralysium didn't get wiped out, Pike, the kelpiens and Ba'ul made nice with each other, did I mention Pike?, the universe lived, The Burn got solved and a child got rescued and delivered to his people - those are all joyous instances to me.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
If The Burn had been something that went wrong, like Manheim or the Kriger Wave or a weapon, wholly intended to cripple the galaxy...but then there would have been a missed opportunity if a race immune to it had seized power.
If the Remans had returned on a mission of destruction for being abandoned, or Romulans had enslaved Vulcans instead, etc.
The way it was "resolved" just really makes you want Annorax to swoop in, in his time ship, erase that kid from history and save trillions of civilisations.
There are just so many instances in Disco where I wish time travel would be used to undo everything that happened in the seasons.
I do wonder whatever happened to Annorax's timeship...the end of YoH implies he actually chose to spend time with his wife instead of building it in the reset timeline, but...the plans were still there, and Annorax technically lived back in the...22nd century? Even if he never actually finished the ship, the amount of work he's already done should've ended up in someone else's hands in the Krenim Imperium during the interim between then and the 24th century - or later.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I do wonder whatever happened to Annorax's timeship...the end of YoH implies he actually chose to spend time with his wife instead of building it in the reset timeline, but...the plans were still there, and Annorax technically lived back in the...22nd century? Even if he never actually finished the ship, the amount of work he's already done should've ended up in someone else's hands in the Krenim Imperium during the interim between then and the 24th century - or later.
With the temporal incursion happening within the ship...it was erased from history, but of course Janeway wasn't and neither was Annorax. He's still alive, with the ability of building another. The Krenim's greatest enemy would be back and it's possible that history could repeat itself...but of course, one small difference is all that's needed for it not to. The Kremin were an Imperium who rose to power because of their temporal science (and I still wish we could have explored in STO WHY they were such a threat to the Iconians and had to be destroyed at any cost).
Sela gave the reason for that in Uneasy Allies - the Iconians are so attuned to their gateways that chroniton radiation is exceedingly dangerous to them - they can't time travel at all, because doing so would basically blank their minds.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I didn't read the whole book, I only came across synopsis on Memory Beta. So I don't know about the entire story, but to me it seems this would have been a better thing to do for Disco: start with some crisis that threatens one planet, an improper official response from Federation officials that, in the eyes of other planets, violates Federation ideals, more planets leaving and so on.
Picard already did that, The Federation violated it's Ideals when they abandoned the Romulans to their fate, I would have left the Federation right then and there, TRIBBLE Starfleet, I'm with my man Picard, personally I would put my career on the line if it meant evacuating the romulan people, then they can fire my TRIBBLE for all I care, .Sure the Zhat Vash stabotaged their rescue, but Starfleet should have stuck to their Ideals rather than throwing it all away.
Picard made a start with that, indeed. But then nothing really happened.
Most of the Federation is still intact, the only serious damage it took was Utopia Planitia being destroyed and that didn't have much to do with refusing to assist the Romulans.
Ok, and they seemed to have lost all possibilities of creating a diverse fleet consisting of more than one class. Besides that, whatever opportunities there were to come up with a storyline that really showed in detail all the consequences of those decisions, they weren't taken.
I didn't read the whole book, I only came across synopsis on Memory Beta. So I don't know about the entire story, but to me it seems this would have been a better thing to do for Disco: start with some crisis that threatens one planet, an improper official response from Federation officials that, in the eyes of other planets, violates Federation ideals, more planets leaving and so on.
Picard already did that, The Federation violated it's Ideals when they abandoned the Romulans to their fate, I would have left the Federation right then and there, TRIBBLE Starfleet, I'm with my man Picard, personally I would put my career on the line if it meant evacuating the romulan people, then they can fire my TRIBBLE for all I care, .Sure the Zhat Vash stabotaged their rescue, but Starfleet should have stuck to their Ideals rather than throwing it all away.
Picard made a start with that, indeed. But then nothing really happened.
Most of the Federation is still intact, the only serious damage it took was Utopia Planitia being destroyed and that didn't have much to do with refusing to assist the Romulans.
Ok, and they seemed to have lost all possibilities of creating a diverse fleet consisting of more than one class. Besides that, whatever opportunities there were to come up with a storyline that really showed in detail all the consequences of those decisions, they weren't taken.
They really did cheap-out on all those same ships, only seen from a distance and all fuzzy. If it had been a fleet of Defiants or Mercury class, like an actual Federation battlefleet, then that would have terrific. Those might have been the most advanced ships currently in the fleet, but they looked pretty dull.
Picard already did that, The Federation violated it's Ideals when they abandoned the Romulans to their fate, I would have left the Federation right then and there, TRIBBLE Starfleet, I'm with my man Picard, personally I would put my career on the line if it meant evacuating the romulan people, then they can fire my TRIBBLE for all I care, .Sure the Zhat Vash stabotaged their rescue, but Starfleet should have stuck to their Ideals rather than throwing it all away.
Letting the Romulans die isn't violating the Federation's ideals. The Federation frequently lets entire civilians die, citing the Prime Directive as the reason. I mean, how many episodes of TOS and TNG were literally "this entire planet is going to die if we don't do anything" with someone going "but the Prime directive says we can't help them!"
The only thing really unusual about what happened in Picard is that they tried to build a fleet at all, when they have never do so in the past.
Picard already did that, The Federation violated it's Ideals when they abandoned the Romulans to their fate, I would have left the Federation right then and there, TRIBBLE Starfleet, I'm with my man Picard, personally I would put my career on the line if it meant evacuating the romulan people, then they can fire my TRIBBLE for all I care, .Sure the Zhat Vash stabotaged their rescue, but Starfleet should have stuck to their Ideals rather than throwing it all away.
Letting the Romulans die isn't violating the Federation's ideals. The Federation frequently lets entire civilians die, citing the Prime Directive as the reason. I mean, how many episodes of TOS and TNG were literally "this entire planet is going to die if we don't do anything" with someone going "but the Prime directive says we can't help them!"
The only thing really unusual about what happened in Picard is that they tried to build a fleet at all, when they have never do so in the past.
Letting them die actually went against the Prime Directive, the Prime Directive prohibits "Helping a society escape a natural disaster known to the society, even if inaction would result in a society's extinction, unless the society had warp technology and had formally requested aid" well the Romulans were Warp Capable and Formally Requested Starfleet's aid, Starfleet violated the Prime Directive when they didn't hold up their end of the bargain.
Comments
Any series constantly introducing these sort of galaxy level threats, and then only using them for one episode, never to be seen or mentioned again, is very poorly written, and not treating its own concepts with the respect/importance they deserve. This is a problem with episodic storytelling in general, nothing can really matter, or go anywhere, because its never going to be talked about/mentioned again after that episode.
One of the things I like most about Discovery and Picard is that its been taking these tropes from older Star Treks, and giving them season long storylines that actually teat them with the level of seriousness they should've had in the older shows. Only DS9's Dominion War, and Enterprise's Xindi conflict(two of the best parts of old Trek IMO), can match it. Its refreshing to see a show that cares, instead of treating everything it makes up as disposable like most of the older shows did.
Also, IIRC, Warp 13 back in TOS is only like warp 8 in TNG/later warp scale. So they never actually went "warp 13".
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Every threat having to be bigger than the previous one is not limited to Disco though. In fact, we have a lot of that in STO and people have complained about it too on here (I have voiced that criticism in the past as well).
There is a novel where Andoria leaves the Federation due to suffering from some fertility crisis that threatens the existence of the entire species - and the Federation basically sitting on and not sharing the cure. Eventually things are solved thanks to, amongst others, Dr. Bashir and Andoria rejoins.
I didn't read the whole book, I only came across synopsis on Memory Beta. So I don't know about the entire story, but to me it seems this would have been a better thing to do for Disco: start with some crisis that threatens one planet, an improper official response from Federation officials that, in the eyes of other planets, violates Federation ideals, more planets leaving and so on.
Then you could have a big disruption, but as a result of gradual developments, with multiple factors and actions from different agents playing a role (a natural disaster, a political response, a political debate as a result of different opinions, an exploration of different paths following disenchantment and so on).
In fact, they could have given it real life meaning if they had slightly twisted this idea and, instead of going with a fertility crisis, make it about a virus threatening a key member of the Federation. Draconic measures from its government are needed, but how far can that government go and still adhere to the Federation's ideals of freedom, without bringing contacts between world to a total stand-still and will this society recover anyway, or be forced into isolation out of fear of the virus spreading to other worlds...?
Maybe it'd have been too obvious, but at least suspension of disbelief would not be required anymore.
but Discovery... Lord. everything is dismal and destroyed and anarchy.
Bring the Enterprise XCV-330 to STO
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
About your point in bold there, I take it you haven't heard that Anson Mount's Pike is going to be in Strange New Worlds, which is going to be in the 23rd century. This should be one good thing that you might want to look forward to.
Discovery S1 and S2 are still set in the same future where replicators, and free education, healthcare, housing, and food, have eliminated most needs and wants in the future, and an alliance of dozens of worlds have brought peace to a large portion of space, that all the other Trek shows are.
And even when they go into the future in S3 the Federation still exists, and worlds not part of the Federation anymore like Earth, Ni'var, Trill, are still perfectly fine. Even worlds out in the boonies like Hima are portrayed as far future utopian cities. The only real difference is that the lack of dilthium means people can't travel as far, so everyone is looking more inward. There is no chaos, no Mad Max style anarchy.
There is really nothing dystopian about anything in Discovery, or Picard.
Discovery S1 and S2 are still set in the same future where replicators, and free education, healthcare, housing, and food, have eliminated most needs and wants in the future, and an alliance of dozens of worlds have brought peace to a large portion of space, that all the other Trek shows are.
And even when they go into the future in S3 the Federation still exists, and worlds not part of the Federation anymore like Earth, Ni'var, Trill, are still perfectly fine. Even worlds out in the boonies like Hima are portrayed as far future utopian cities. The only real difference is that the lack of dilthium means people can't travel as far, so everyone is looking more inward. There is no chaos, no Mad Max style anarchy.
There is really nothing dystopian about anything in Discovery, or Picard.
Why are my post getting eaten? Who is needing to approve these things?
It wouldn't make sense if the Vulcans were one of the members threating to leave, since they kind of put the whole romulan reunification thing in motion, it would be Illogical to push Reunification and then change their minds at the last minute, Vulcan should have threated to leave the UFP if the Federation didn't help the Romulans.
And Vulcans as a whole weren't the ones pushing for reunification - SPOCK was...the Vulcans were probably anywhere from ambivalent to outright hostile to the idea - we've seen what they think of any species who doesn't follow their ideology.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
DISCO has Vulcan and Romulan cultures being unified while retaining their own diversity, cultures and ideologies. Which is more Star Trek and just, is unification not just conquest.
Which puts the UFP membership in different light, as while theoretically this is pure starfleet and UFP, infinite diversity, the federation has been known to put dislike of romulan culture ahead of principal in TOS and TNG, and the Romulan culture of self-sovereignty would have chafed under the federation.
Bring the Enterprise XCV-330 to STO
Disco though...optimistic? There's just no joy to be had. Torturing Tarigrades, Klingon rapists, killing interesting characters, a war that near obliterates the Federation, orphaning, dead husbands (yeah, they brought him back, but still), hellbent on destruction artificial intelligences, then moving onto "The Burn".
I don't know of any joyous thing that happens in the Discoverse. No one's happy, their lives are miserable and meaningless pew pew pew describes it totally, especially in STO.
I wouldn't call Voyager bleak. It was very human...they wanted to go home. It's relatable, but then they stuck to their ideals, helping people along the way and exploring space.
Roddenbery always wanted a war in TOS, but he didn't have the subject to get it. I always wonder what Next Phase would have given up, but then TNG really went on it's continuing mission. DS9 was so dark that it could have gone in any direction and a war fitted...and of course, the probably with B5 was that the Shadow War was so anticlimactic. Vorlons as the bad guys, going off hand-on-hand together, the "Not-So-Great-Machine on Epsilon 5". I knew JMS thought he wasn't going to get a fifth season, so he packed it all into one and of course, had to change so much because of leaving actors...I just know though that somewhere, he has all five seasons and their structure written down. It was a five-season plan.
And yet, the TOS Enterprise didn't have replicators. They were food dispensers, but when Janeway and Harry were talking about the past in "Flashbacks", they mentioned that they had to store their own food back then.
That's one thing Enterprise brought in too late...the Chef turned Counsellor in the very last episode.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
If the Remans had returned on a mission of destruction for being abandoned, or Romulans had enslaved Vulcans instead, etc.
The way it was "resolved" just really makes you want Annorax to swoop in, in his time ship, erase that kid from history and save trillions of civilisations.
There are just so many instances in Disco where I wish time travel would be used to undo everything that happened in the seasons.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
With the temporal incursion happening within the ship...it was erased from history, but of course Janeway wasn't and neither was Annorax. He's still alive, with the ability of building another. The Krenim's greatest enemy would be back and it's possible that history could repeat itself...but of course, one small difference is all that's needed for it not to. The Kremin were an Imperium who rose to power because of their temporal science (and I still wish we could have explored in STO WHY they were such a threat to the Iconians and had to be destroyed at any cost).
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Picard made a start with that, indeed. But then nothing really happened.
Most of the Federation is still intact, the only serious damage it took was Utopia Planitia being destroyed and that didn't have much to do with refusing to assist the Romulans.
Ok, and they seemed to have lost all possibilities of creating a diverse fleet consisting of more than one class. Besides that, whatever opportunities there were to come up with a storyline that really showed in detail all the consequences of those decisions, they weren't taken.
They really did cheap-out on all those same ships, only seen from a distance and all fuzzy. If it had been a fleet of Defiants or Mercury class, like an actual Federation battlefleet, then that would have terrific. Those might have been the most advanced ships currently in the fleet, but they looked pretty dull.
The only thing really unusual about what happened in Picard is that they tried to build a fleet at all, when they have never do so in the past.
Letting them die actually went against the Prime Directive, the Prime Directive prohibits "Helping a society escape a natural disaster known to the society, even if inaction would result in a society's extinction, unless the society had warp technology and had formally requested aid" well the Romulans were Warp Capable and Formally Requested Starfleet's aid, Starfleet violated the Prime Directive when they didn't hold up their end of the bargain.