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Captain Geko tweets about player response to J'Ula character

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    kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
    It is a shame that Star Trek is going in the direction of mass murderers, atrocities...and then getting you to either play them and or, support them.

    It makes me wish there was a choice of one faction on their side, say the Klingons and then the pure and heroic FED's.

    I remember being EXTREMELY uncomfortable with that episode where you can fly around, but having no choice of auto-firing on civilian ships and murdering them all. It's was disgusting that that was the only way to play the game.

    The Sela episode, where you resist but then have no choice but for the animals to be tortured and destroyed was awful and it makes me wonder...who's writing these?
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    foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    ...
    Seriously, if we're not buying it enough, then they are simply not selling it properly.

    This is really the sum of my thoughts. I know what they wanted to do with J'ula, that much is obvious. The problem is they did not do it well enough. That isn't my fault for not understanding their art, its theirs for not presenting it properly.

    I would say there are at least two episodes missing from this arc to really make it work. Even then, J'ula went over a few too many lines to really let her off like we do. I don't have sympathy for J'ula, I don't care about her goals, and I sure don't understand why I should after the things she has done.

    L'rel is still a problem too, lacking any legitimacy for the role. As someone else mentioned, why her over the many other Klingons we've actually worked with fighting Borg and H'urq and so on over the years? She is nobody the PC has reason to care about, except because some magic monks said so. And we are supposed to imagine none of the Great Houses are going to contest her rule, this clone from a long time ago who apparently was happy to hold the entire planet hostage with a bomb in its core, planted by the Federation.

    Totally unrelated question: What really happened at Praxis?
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    saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,401 Arc User

    Totally unrelated question: What really happened at Praxis?
    Chernobyl disaster in space. It's what started the events of the Undiscovered Country.

    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
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    therealblackkaostherealblackkaos Member Posts: 121 Arc User
    For me personally, I’m boycotting everything disco related from here on out. Only doing the events to get my Vengeance from this point further. May not amount to a hill of beans but, for me, I know I’m not missing out on anything great so I’ll count that as a win.
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    paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,800 Arc User
    kayajay wrote: »
    It is a shame that Star Trek is going in the direction of mass murderers, atrocities...and then getting you to either play them and or, support them.

    It makes me wish there was a choice of one faction on their side, say the Klingons and then the pure and heroic FED's.

    I remember being EXTREMELY uncomfortable with that episode where you can fly around, but having no choice of auto-firing on civilian ships and murdering them all. It's was disgusting that that was the only way to play the game.

    The Sela episode, where you resist but then have no choice but for the animals to be tortured and destroyed was awful and it makes me wonder...who's writing these?

    so I'm guessing you're against a playable Terran Empire faction then.
  • Options
    foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User

    Totally unrelated question: What really happened at Praxis?
    Chernobyl disaster in space. It's what started the events of the Undiscovered Country.

    Or is that what they want you to believe?
  • Options
    kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
    kayajay wrote: »
    It is a shame that Star Trek is going in the direction of mass murderers, atrocities...and then getting you to either play them and or, support them.

    It makes me wish there was a choice of one faction on their side, say the Klingons and then the pure and heroic FED's.

    I remember being EXTREMELY uncomfortable with that episode where you can fly around, but having no choice of auto-firing on civilian ships and murdering them all. It's was disgusting that that was the only way to play the game.

    The Sela episode, where you resist but then have no choice but for the animals to be tortured and destroyed was awful and it makes me wonder...who's writing these?

    so I'm guessing you're against a playable Terran Empire faction then.

    That's pretty broad. Are we talking Empress Sato, Disco, Kirk and the I.S.S., Spock and his reform, or Intendent Kira?

    I'd only want the TOS and DS9 versions, personally. If there was a whiff of Disco, then I would only want a Mad Leeta faction. There's so much to be explored with her and the Pah-Wraiths...
  • Options
    saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,401 Arc User

    Totally unrelated question: What really happened at Praxis?
    Chernobyl disaster in space. It's what started the events of the Undiscovered Country.

    Or is that what they want you to believe?

    Yes, in truth, they opened a portal to Gre'thor and their greatest secret warrior, the Fek'lhr Slayer blew it up with the Big Kahless Gun 10,000.
    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
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    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    We will get plenty of mad Leeta, because that's the only original storyline Cryptic has left - anything past that will be adapted from future Trek shows...of course, Killy will be involved with Leeta in some way, because we never properly dealt with her after Pahvo.

    And there's still the Terran Emperor, whose identity we still don't know, but given the mention of god-like powers he possesses...it's either that guy from TOS who got a massive psionic boost - and accompanying insanity - from contact with the galactic barrier...or a Traveler-empowered Wesley Crusher...I really hope it's not Wesley Crusher - he was insufferable enough without having to deal with delusions of godhood too.​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
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    kurtronkurtron Member Posts: 191 Arc User
    Or is that what they want you to believe?

    #Praxiswasaninsidejob
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    trekfangrrrl#6910 trekfangrrrl Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    And what other Klingons would take the role? Worf? The Federation puppet? Martok? The old man who never wanted the job and was already outed for being a Federation puppet? Kagran? A captain for the Alliance that has shown no real diplomatic skills?

    Hey man. You have some really good points, and appear to be a very logical person. But the above quote is a pretty good example of arguing in bad faith, using completely selective logic.

    Anyone can make a list that only shows the negative points about something and no positives. Using your type of logic you could just as easily add "Lrell, a relic from over 100 years ago that knows nothing about the modern era" to your quote. But such a statement would be totally ignoring her good qualities and only focusing on that one thing. Just like you did with all of those people you named.

    It's just sad to see someone who is clearly so intelligent and logical resorting that type of bad faith tactics. You can do better!
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    thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 6,108 Arc User
    I hope the Gorn rebel against the Klingon Empire! TRIBBLE J'ula!
    2gdi5w4mrudm.png
    Typhoon Class please!
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    trekfangrrrl#6910 trekfangrrrl Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    Hey man. You have some really good points, and appear to be a very logical person. But the above quote is a pretty good example of arguing in bad faith, using completely selective logic.

    Anyone can make a list that only shows the negative points about something and no positives. Using your type of logic you could just as easily add "Lrell, a relic from over 100 years ago that knows nothing about the modern era" to your quote. But such a statement would be totally ignoring her good qualities and only focusing on that one thing. Just like you did with all of those people you named.

    It's just sad to see someone who is clearly so intelligent and logical resorting that type of bad faith tactics. You can do better!
    That's isn't bad faith, thats just reality. None of them are suited for the rule, and even two of them have admitted as such.

    L'rell may not know much about the modern day, but thats easily solved in a few weeks of bringing her up to speed. Shes already proven herself a strong leader of the Empire, and that's the part you can't just train easily. Her's is a minor hindrance, not a systemic problem like the others.

    Trying to compare those two unlike things as the same, now that is arguing in bad faith.

    Come on may, you know what I'm saying is true. You intentionally only listed a bad quality about each of the people you were dismissing as a possible Chancellor and completely ignored any good things they've done or respect they've built up that would be in their favor. Why present a completely one sided argument like that?
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    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    edited June 2021
    Because there is no point listing any good qualities for someone that has no bearing on a specific role they could hypothetically be asked to take - Ghandi is widely considered to be a wonderful person, possessing of many admirable qualities and virtues - and he was also a staunch believer in nonviolent action...thus, he would not make a good military leader (Not counting the Civilization videogame series, where he is extremely nuke-happy for some idiotic reason), so none of those virtues need be mentioned when discussing his suitability for such a role.​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • Options
    paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,800 Arc User
    edited June 2021
    What about Chancellor Kahless? He's already the Emperor and hopefully the next clone won't die to a godlike race like the Iconians.
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    trekfangrrrl#6910 trekfangrrrl Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    Because there is no point listing any good qualities for someone that has no bearing on a specific role they could hypothetically be asked to take - Ghandi is widely considered to be a wonderful person, possessing of many admirable qualities and virtues - and he was also a staunch believer in nonviolent action...thus, he would not make a good military leader (Not counting the Civilization videogame series, where he is extremely nuke-happy for some idiotic reason), so none of those virtues need be mentioned when discussing his suitability for such a role.​​

    Really really weird and strange comparison there! Unlike Ghandi, all of the names being floated for possible Chancellor are actually warriors and leaders; all with the skills and experience for the role. That doesn't mean they are all equally suited, and that some wouldn't be better that others, but that still doesn't change the fact that any of the could do it if needed. It's just so weird to pretend like none of them are even legitimate possibilities when in truth they all are.

    The devs told the specific story they wanted to tell. And that's fine. But if they had wanted to make Worf or Martok or whoever else Chancellor, they would have done it in a way that made sense too. So let's not pretend that writers don't just come up with whatever reasoning they feel would justify any given story they want to tell.
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    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    edited June 2021
    Execpt they AREN'T legitimate choices for reasons already pointed out. Worf is still seen as a Starfleet puppet by enough Klingons that, if he took the chancellorship, it would immediately start a second civil war...and he also doesn't truly understand Klingon culture - he only understands what he THINKS Klingon culture is. Martok flat-out doesn't want the job again, and the only reason he took it the first time around is because Worf forced his hand - in the middle of the deadliest war the Alpha and Beta quadrants had ever seen, the Klingons could NOT afford to be left leaderless while they elected a chancellor the normal way.

    And Kagran has no diplomatic skills whatsoever.

    And as to players...never mind the fact that just flat-out won't work for multiple reasons, people play STO to be starship captains, not paper-pushers.​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • Options
    trekfangrrrl#6910 trekfangrrrl Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    Yeah Discovery is a part of Trek now, so it's obviously going to be part of current/future Trek games.

    But let's also be honest: if the devs had not secure Mary Chieffo for VO, her character wouldn't be Chancellor right now. So all this talk about how that character was the only one that could have done it is just wrong. If they hadn't got that actor they would have written the story differently and we would be having a completely different conversation right now.

    I guess my point is anybody trying to argue that the story could only have turned one one specific way is simply wrong. It could have turned out any way they wanted to take it. There wasn't only one option, they just decided they wanted to tell this specific story. And that's ok.

    Now here is a different point: it's true, you can't please everyone. So let's not even start with a strawman argument about it doesn't matter what they do because someone will still complain. While you can't please everyone, your goal should be to please the most people possible. The question is, did this ending accomplish that goal?

    It's a hypothetical question so we'll never know. We'll never know if more people would have been happier if Martok or Worf or whoever else ended up Chancellor. But it's still an interesting thought.
  • Options
    thetaninethetanine Member Posts: 1,367 Arc User
    sthe91 wrote: »
    thetanine wrote: »
    westx211 wrote: »
    westx211 wrote: »
    J'ula went from a warcrime spamming psychopath to a "hero" only because the devs made her, in a sloppily written story. It just feels a bit forced.

    I have a feeling that they simply didn't know what role they wanted her to play. So they changed it halfway through the story.

    At least that's the impression I get from the story.

    I agree. If it had been more gradual her becoming a "redeemed villain" I still would dislike her as a character but atleast she would make more sense.

    Honestly I think the whole story about Aakar and J'mpok and the empire would've worked better if J'ula wasn't really involved, or if J'ula stayed a bad guy(Then we'd have multiple bad Klingons that have to be stop, and without the inconsistency of J'ula)

    By the way, J'ula has a giant bomb floating around the inside of the homeworld, Kronos, afaik. Remember it was put there by the Mary-Sue of ST: Discovery. They gave J'ula the detonator so she could keep the entire planet hostage while she dribbled her lock-jawed rage onto the reforming Empire. Oh, and the K'tinga-class too. Too many non-Klingons were noticing that ship-of-the-line missing from the Klingon's shipyards, and the Romulans too--by extension of warp drives exchanged for cloaking devices.

    Try running an empire while you're forced to subsist on a diet of pureed Gagh, the Klingon delicacy made from serpent worms and Targ livers.

    That was L'Rell not J'ula. J'ula is not even present in Star Trek: Discovery, she comes from a comic. That was Mirror Georgiou (acting as Captain Georgiou) that put it there with the approval from Admiral Cornwell and the rest of Starfleet. All Michael Burnham did was use the detonator for the hydro bomb as a bargaining chip against Georgiou instead of detonating it and making Qo'Nos uninhabitable which was Mirror Georgiou's goal like she did in the Mirror Universe to those Klingons. This information is from Memory Alpha and the episode called Will You Take My Hand? from Season 1 of DSC.

    Ah, yeah...

    I must have had a few too many of those new style Klingon Tacos: Klingon Gagh'CoS . Who knew serpent worms and targ livers went so well together in a crunchy tako shelled delight?
    🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮
    🎶Gagh'CoS! 🎵gagh'cos!! 🎵🎶Gagh'CoS!!!
    🎼🌮🌮🌮🌌🪐🌍🌛🌠😦😧🤯🥵😵🤬🤢🤮🐍🖤!!
    STAR TREK
    lD8xc9e.png
  • Options
    saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,401 Arc User
    edited June 2021
    kayajay wrote: »
    The Sela episode, where you resist but then have no choice but for the animals to be tortured and destroyed was awful and it makes me wonder...who's writing these?
    People who like complex, morally gray, situations, rather then just childish, black/white morality, narratives.
    Forcing you to kill space puppies with banned WMD, shoot your unarmed teammates (holograms but still), implement Borg implants on scared, unwilling POW...

    Truly a morally gray situation that pictures Tal Shiar operatives as well-intentioned soldiers doing what they think is right for their government by their own will in order to bring peace and totally not cartoonishly brainwashed puppets controlled by equally cartoonishly evil, monstrous psychopaths doing this for fun.

    All that was missing was feeding Reman orphans to an Armus, demoting Harry Kim to freshman and sending cadets to Starbase 80.
    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
  • Options
    therealblackkaostherealblackkaos Member Posts: 121 Arc User
    What is meant as being a “Klingon”? We’ve seen, from everything Iteration of Star Trek, there’s different versions and meanings of Klingon. Why don’t they write better stories on that?
  • Options
    paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,800 Arc User
    What is meant as being a “Klingon”? We’ve seen, from everything Iteration of Star Trek, there’s different versions and meanings of Klingon. Why don’t they write better stories on that?

    Basically just be like Worf, he represents everything a Klingon should be despite the fact that he served aboard a Starfleet vessel and grew up outside the culture, let's see...

    1. He isn't a coward,
    2. He's fights with honor,
    3. He's least likely to pull any shady stuff like using a computer virus or teaming up with the Tal Shiar
    4. He isn't politically motivated,
    5. He's one of the few intelligent Klingons in existence,
    6. He knows when to pick his battles,

    Honestly J'Ula and the rest of the Klingon Empire should be taking notes from him.
  • Options
    therealblackkaostherealblackkaos Member Posts: 121 Arc User
    > @paradox#7391 said:
    > Basically just be like Worf, he represents everything a Klingon should be despite the fact that he served aboard a Starfleet vessel and grew up outside the culture, let's see...
    >
    > 1. He isn't a coward,
    > 2. He's fights with honor,
    > 3. He's least likely to pull any shady stuff like using a computer virus or teaming up with the Tal Shiar
    > 4. He isn't politically motivated,
    > 5. He's one of the few intelligent Klingons in existence,
    > 6. He knows when to pick his battles,
    >
    > Honestly J'Ula and the rest of the Klingon Empire should be taking notes from him.


    Truth. I’ve seen some of the arguments against other like Worf and Martok. I agree with some of them, but as a whole, if they really want to believe that two people in Julia and Loreiel are better for not only the Klingon Empire but for the Aliance as well is pure bull and the writers know it but want to push disco as “the future” is STO and Trek as well. They need to realize that just because you make it canon doesn’t mean it’s going to be accepted and that’s ok. But to think that there should’nt be any backlash from fans is a reason why I feel that this game will be unrecognizable in a year and probably unplayable to/for those extreme fans. Personally, once I get my Vengeance I’m done with the game. I don’t like the direction nor the fact that most of the best stuff is basically unattainable for most players without gambling on loot boxes and such.
  • Options
    phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,618 Arc User

    Totally unrelated question: What really happened at Praxis?
    Chernobyl disaster in space. It's what started the events of the Undiscovered Country.

    Or is that what they want you to believe?

    No, it is the same sort of accident that they were talking about on Voyager in one episode because they used dilithium crystals in their drive which the natives claimed were criminally dangerous and probably the source for a terrorist explosive used in an attack. It turns out that dilithium can turn into trilithium under the right conditions and trilithium is extremely explosive (again, under the right conditions). Unfortunately for Praxis both of those conditions apparently existed in the typically sloppy Klingon mining operation there.
  • Options
    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    edited June 2021
    Well, losing their primary energy production system at Tal'lhnor Gates to a treacherous supernova (Yes, I know that didn't actually happen since it was the subject of a game) probably didn't help.​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • Options
    livinlifejb90#4082 livinlifejb90 Member Posts: 218 Arc User
    edited June 2021
    So pressed. So many poorly constructed arguments.
    8BNUObc.gif
    gQytlm7.jpg
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    trekfangrrrl#6910 trekfangrrrl Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited June 2021
    and hopefully destroy the cesspool of stupidity that is these forums in the process!

    What's wrong man?
This discussion has been closed.