There are sooo many afk players simply standing still throughout the TFO just to get the reward. Please add a kick feature where players can vote to kick afk or grieving players
I stand still through a few TFO's because I don't need to move to kill the enemy. Let's say Swarm, i play the first 2 parts and on the 3rd I just stand protecting my lane. Starbase One i just stand kill Klingons no need to fly around until the end. I often been talked to that I leech and that i m afk, yet I probably killed more then the person complaining. I think also that some people go afk because somebody is on the door, the phone is ringing by the end of the day its just a game and its not like you can't play the TFO's singlehanded. The whole system is a you get a reward for participation there is no difficulty no TFO you can't finish unless its bugged. I don't understand the point here. Are AFK people who are really afk and not even autofire / rotate ect... annoying ? Yeah maybe but why would I waste a single thought on if they get a reward or not? In this game there is no competition unless PVP which well is pretty dead. So I care less if somebody gets a reward box, if somebody opens a promobox and gets a ship. Maybe you need start asking yourself why that is such a big deal for you in a game where you can do almost everything single handed.
I do not have issues handling myself. My issue is people reaping rewards of someone else. If 3 people do all the work and 1 just stands there (no firing and anything) that person should not get any rewards. But either way I stand my ground. If there won't be a kick feature, at least ignoring a player should ensure you don't end up in the same team with that person again
darkblade... normally I don't argue with mods, but the hat isn't on right now. We're all equal right now.
You're taking what I'm saying a bit more on the practical side. I'm leaning a bit more towards the ego side of some who are obsessed with their epeen performance. We actually had an incident here on the forums where someone got directed to a build guide over their build... and it was acutally the guy who WROTE said guide who got pointed to it!
On top of that... people WILL assume your build is terrible and will attack over it if so inclined if your "numbers" don't line up with some self percieved level requirement. Therein lies a problem because it could be that its NOT the build, but the player. But that doesn't matter to some people, its "get gud or gtfo". Someone might even just see Tetryon beams and assume they suck because its not the uber damage dealing metabuild of the week.
I'm not calling out the practicality of it. I'm calling out the Human side of it.
Like I said, we do need SOMETHING to deal with AFKers and toxic players in TFO runs. But at the same time we need to find a way to keep said system from being abused by elitists who get so bent out of shape if someone "drags their numbers down" in Infected. Because I hate to say it, but there are people in game who do that to varying degrees. And they don't care about your build other than the fact it is "obviously garbage" because you're not performing to their perceived level. Doesn't matter if you're a veteran or a rookie, you get the lash for insulting your superior by not performing as well or not using a "proper", by their definition, build. Anything that reduces their numbers is an insult. That could be you not having an optimized build, or it could be you having a megawell build that pulls things away from them while they're trying to alpha strike.
Its not all gear. Its ego.
I'm not totally against having a vote kick. I'm just seeing how it can be abused in the current environment.
To be honest, at this point, I find staying away from ISA as much as possible (except when Random dumps me in there) benefical; because if there is anywhere you're going to find an Epeen waving Juggernaught pilot, its there.
Controversial opinion here, but given the choice of some OP epeen waving 'look at muh DPS' bore or an AFK'er, I'll take the AFK'er.
Wait what? Are you saying ppl brag to AFK'ers with their dps? Did I get that right?
Not exactly, although I'd assume the AFK'ers see the parse numbers from the 'look at muh DPS!' bores when they post said results in chat.
I did encounter many AFKers (mostly in Azura Nebula Rescue Advanced) where they wouldn't move a bit but always taunt other players, saying stuff like "Thanks for the free run suckers, God you all suck, etc etc" Never saw anyone with that dps talk... perhaps not yet.
Do you know how easy it is to dump several groups of Tholians on them?
Two birds in one strike: Afk-ers get hammered and tholians are far enough from rescue ships not to be a bother.
While a brilliant tactic, the afkers in most Azura Nebula use cloak and stay faaaar away from the ships. I feel like if there won't be a kick feature, the devs shud ensure at least the ignore feature should work correctly
The Tholian NPC's ignore cloak once aggro with their web so that's not a problem.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
darkblade... normally I don't argue with mods, but the hat isn't on right now. We're all equal right now.
You're taking what I'm saying a bit more on the practical side. I'm leaning a bit more towards the ego side of some who are obsessed with their epeen performance. We actually had an incident here on the forums where someone got directed to a build guide over their build... and it was acutally the guy who WROTE said guide who got pointed to it!
On top of that... people WILL assume your build is terrible and will attack over it if so inclined if your "numbers" don't line up with some self percieved level requirement. Therein lies a problem because it could be that its NOT the build, but the player. But that doesn't matter to some people, its "get gud or gtfo". Someone might even just see Tetryon beams and assume they suck because its not the uber damage dealing metabuild of the week.
I'm not calling out the practicality of it. I'm calling out the Human side of it.
Like I said, we do need SOMETHING to deal with AFKers and toxic players in TFO runs. But at the same time we need to find a way to keep said system from being abused by elitists who get so bent out of shape if someone "drags their numbers down" in Infected. Because I hate to say it, but there are people in game who do that to varying degrees. And they don't care about your build other than the fact it is "obviously garbage" because you're not performing to their perceived level. Doesn't matter if you're a veteran or a rookie, you get the lash for insulting your superior by not performing as well or not using a "proper", by their definition, build. Anything that reduces their numbers is an insult. That could be you not having an optimized build, or it could be you having a megawell build that pulls things away from them while they're trying to alpha strike.
Its not all gear. Its ego.
I'm not totally against having a vote kick. I'm just seeing how it can be abused in the current environment.
To be honest, at this point, I find staying away from ISA as much as possible (except when Random dumps me in there) benefical; because if there is anywhere you're going to find an Epeen waving Juggernaught pilot, its there.
Controversial opinion here, but given the choice of some OP epeen waving 'look at muh DPS' bore or an AFK'er, I'll take the AFK'er.
Wait what? Are you saying ppl brag to AFK'ers with their dps? Did I get that right?
Not exactly, although I'd assume the AFK'ers see the parse numbers from the 'look at muh DPS!' bores when they post said results in chat.
I did encounter many AFKers (mostly in Azura Nebula Rescue Advanced) where they wouldn't move a bit but always taunt other players, saying stuff like "Thanks for the free run suckers, God you all suck, etc etc" Never saw anyone with that dps talk... perhaps not yet.
Do you know how easy it is to dump several groups of Tholians on them?
Two birds in one strike: Afk-ers get hammered and tholians are far enough from rescue ships not to be a bother.
While a brilliant tactic, the afkers in most Azura Nebula use cloak and stay faaaar away from the ships. I feel like if there won't be a kick feature, the devs shud ensure at least the ignore feature should work correctly
The Tholian NPC's ignore cloak once aggro with their web so that's not a problem.
How would I pull them to afkers tho? The only way I see that happen is that multi tractor beam ability
There are sooo many afk players simply standing still throughout the TFO just to get the reward. Please add a kick feature where players can vote to kick afk or grieving players
I stand still through a few TFO's because I don't need to move to kill the enemy. Let's say Swarm, i play the first 2 parts and on the 3rd I just stand protecting my lane. Starbase One i just stand kill Klingons no need to fly around until the end. I often been talked to that I leech and that i m afk, yet I probably killed more then the person complaining. I think also that some people go afk because somebody is on the door, the phone is ringing by the end of the day its just a game and its not like you can't play the TFO's singlehanded. The whole system is a you get a reward for participation there is no difficulty no TFO you can't finish unless its bugged. I don't understand the point here. Are AFK people who are really afk and not even autofire / rotate ect... annoying ? Yeah maybe but why would I waste a single thought on if they get a reward or not? In this game there is no competition unless PVP which well is pretty dead. So I care less if somebody gets a reward box, if somebody opens a promobox and gets a ship. Maybe you need start asking yourself why that is such a big deal for you in a game where you can do almost everything single handed.
I do not have issues handling myself. My issue is people reaping rewards of someone else. If 3 people do all the work and 1 just stands there (no firing and anything) that person should not get any rewards. But either way I stand my ground. If there won't be a kick feature, at least ignoring a player should ensure you don't end up in the same team with that person again
So...going by that logic, if 3 people do 90+% of the damage on the map and the other 2 players basically do nothing...why should they get the reward? Hell if ONE person does 90+% of the damage on the map, why should do the other 4 players get any rewards than. Yeah I have done maps where I ALONE have done 90+% of the damage on the map with the other 4 being in the 2-3% range to JUST avoid the AFK penalty in advanced maps. Going by your logic, vote kicking people who don't perform up to the elitists level means vote kicking them out is fine...it is not. You seriously don't see a problem with a play with my way or else?!? The devs have set a threshold for what they consider you are AFK, if the player is meeting that, than they met the requirements and that is that.
Oh no no you misunderstand. I am not saying anything like that. Performing bad in a TFO is no reason to be kicked! Hell the person can be a beginner, low on EC, could be having a bad day, etc. I am in no way saying we should kick bad performing players. I am talking about pure afkers. Those that do NOTHING, not even engage the enemy just stay at the same spot the whole TFO not even engaging. Just moving slightly to ensure they dont get dced. Hope that was a bit more clear.
There are sooo many afk players simply standing still throughout the TFO just to get the reward. Please add a kick feature where players can vote to kick afk or grieving players
I stand still through a few TFO's because I don't need to move to kill the enemy. Let's say Swarm, i play the first 2 parts and on the 3rd I just stand protecting my lane. Starbase One i just stand kill Klingons no need to fly around until the end. I often been talked to that I leech and that i m afk, yet I probably killed more then the person complaining. I think also that some people go afk because somebody is on the door, the phone is ringing by the end of the day its just a game and its not like you can't play the TFO's singlehanded. The whole system is a you get a reward for participation there is no difficulty no TFO you can't finish unless its bugged. I don't understand the point here. Are AFK people who are really afk and not even autofire / rotate ect... annoying ? Yeah maybe but why would I waste a single thought on if they get a reward or not? In this game there is no competition unless PVP which well is pretty dead. So I care less if somebody gets a reward box, if somebody opens a promobox and gets a ship. Maybe you need start asking yourself why that is such a big deal for you in a game where you can do almost everything single handed.
I do not have issues handling myself. My issue is people reaping rewards of someone else. If 3 people do all the work and 1 just stands there (no firing and anything) that person should not get any rewards. But either way I stand my ground. If there won't be a kick feature, at least ignoring a player should ensure you don't end up in the same team with that person again
So...going by that logic, if 3 people do 90+% of the damage on the map and the other 2 players basically do nothing...why should they get the reward? Hell if ONE person does 90+% of the damage on the map, why should do the other 4 players get any rewards than. Yeah I have done maps where I ALONE have done 90+% of the damage on the map with the other 4 being in the 2-3% range to JUST avoid the AFK penalty in advanced maps. Going by your logic, vote kicking people who don't perform up to the elitists level means vote kicking them out is fine...it is not. You seriously don't see a problem with a play with my way or else?!? The devs have set a threshold for what they consider you are AFK, if the player is meeting that, than they met the requirements and that is that.
Oh no no you misunderstand. I am not saying anything like that. Performing bad in a TFO is no reason to be kicked! Hell the person can be a beginner, low on EC, could be having a bad day, etc. I am in no way saying we should kick bad performing players. I am talking about pure afkers. Those that do NOTHING, not even engage the enemy just stay at the same spot the whole TFO not even engaging. Just moving slightly to ensure they dont get dced. Hope that was a bit more clear.
So what do you consider pure AFK?
C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
There are sooo many afk players simply standing still throughout the TFO just to get the reward. Please add a kick feature where players can vote to kick afk or grieving players
I stand still through a few TFO's because I don't need to move to kill the enemy. Let's say Swarm, i play the first 2 parts and on the 3rd I just stand protecting my lane. Starbase One i just stand kill Klingons no need to fly around until the end. I often been talked to that I leech and that i m afk, yet I probably killed more then the person complaining. I think also that some people go afk because somebody is on the door, the phone is ringing by the end of the day its just a game and its not like you can't play the TFO's singlehanded. The whole system is a you get a reward for participation there is no difficulty no TFO you can't finish unless its bugged. I don't understand the point here. Are AFK people who are really afk and not even autofire / rotate ect... annoying ? Yeah maybe but why would I waste a single thought on if they get a reward or not? In this game there is no competition unless PVP which well is pretty dead. So I care less if somebody gets a reward box, if somebody opens a promobox and gets a ship. Maybe you need start asking yourself why that is such a big deal for you in a game where you can do almost everything single handed.
I do not have issues handling myself. My issue is people reaping rewards of someone else. If 3 people do all the work and 1 just stands there (no firing and anything) that person should not get any rewards. But either way I stand my ground. If there won't be a kick feature, at least ignoring a player should ensure you don't end up in the same team with that person again
So...going by that logic, if 3 people do 90+% of the damage on the map and the other 2 players basically do nothing...why should they get the reward? Hell if ONE person does 90+% of the damage on the map, why should do the other 4 players get any rewards than. Yeah I have done maps where I ALONE have done 90+% of the damage on the map with the other 4 being in the 2-3% range to JUST avoid the AFK penalty in advanced maps. Going by your logic, vote kicking people who don't perform up to the elitists level means vote kicking them out is fine...it is not. You seriously don't see a problem with a play with my way or else?!? The devs have set a threshold for what they consider you are AFK, if the player is meeting that, than they met the requirements and that is that.
Oh no no you misunderstand. I am not saying anything like that. Performing bad in a TFO is no reason to be kicked! Hell the person can be a beginner, low on EC, could be having a bad day, etc. I am in no way saying we should kick bad performing players. I am talking about pure afkers. Those that do NOTHING, not even engage the enemy just stay at the same spot the whole TFO not even engaging. Just moving slightly to ensure they dont get dced. Hope that was a bit more clear.
So what do you consider pure AFK?
Staying away from combat, possibly cloaking , not doing the missions and going on very low impulse to avoid being idle
Oh no no you misunderstand. I am not saying anything like that. Performing bad in a TFO is no reason to be kicked! Hell the person can be a beginner, low on EC, could be having a bad day, etc. I am in no way saying we should kick bad performing players. I am talking about pure afkers. Those that do NOTHING, not even engage the enemy just stay at the same spot the whole TFO not even engaging. Just moving slightly to ensure they dont get dced. Hope that was a bit more clear.
Battle of Korfez and anything with a mandatory minimum would like to have a word with you on that one.
Folks shouldn't have to do 2092309482304918242398420398401928301275081428 DPS or whatever the current record is. But if a TFO requires everyone on the team to put forth 20k DPS at the minimum, and the person isn't meeting that 20k minimum, then they are not ready for that content and have no business being in that random queue until they up their game. If you have 4 people at the 20k minimum, and the 5th person is at only 10k DPS, then that 5th person not carrying their weight has guaranteed that run to fail because 10k DPS is missing from the team. That's not fair to the other 4 people in the run to be expected to carry the 5th guy. In that example the 5th guy is not ready yet, BUT will be given some proper time and learning. The group as a whole must be taken into account, and not just one guy. That's why I have also advocated for a Proving Grounds type of thing in addition to better tutorial type items.
Give people enough information to make a basic cohesive build and let them go from there. Not forcing a build, but give folks the info they need to make some basic builds and then decide from there what they want to do, and potentially get into more difficult content. As to how far up that ladder they want to go will be up to them. I'm willing to bet quite a few would agree that there's not enough critical information for folks to at least understand what each thing does. "Here's why it's a good idea to match weapon types" and some basic tips.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
There are sooo many afk players simply standing still throughout the TFO just to get the reward. Please add a kick feature where players can vote to kick afk or grieving players
I stand still through a few TFO's because I don't need to move to kill the enemy. Let's say Swarm, i play the first 2 parts and on the 3rd I just stand protecting my lane. Starbase One i just stand kill Klingons no need to fly around until the end. I often been talked to that I leech and that i m afk, yet I probably killed more then the person complaining. I think also that some people go afk because somebody is on the door, the phone is ringing by the end of the day its just a game and its not like you can't play the TFO's singlehanded. The whole system is a you get a reward for participation there is no difficulty no TFO you can't finish unless its bugged. I don't understand the point here. Are AFK people who are really afk and not even autofire / rotate ect... annoying ? Yeah maybe but why would I waste a single thought on if they get a reward or not? In this game there is no competition unless PVP which well is pretty dead. So I care less if somebody gets a reward box, if somebody opens a promobox and gets a ship. Maybe you need start asking yourself why that is such a big deal for you in a game where you can do almost everything single handed.
I do not have issues handling myself. My issue is people reaping rewards of someone else. If 3 people do all the work and 1 just stands there (no firing and anything) that person should not get any rewards. But either way I stand my ground. If there won't be a kick feature, at least ignoring a player should ensure you don't end up in the same team with that person again
So...going by that logic, if 3 people do 90+% of the damage on the map and the other 2 players basically do nothing...why should they get the reward? Hell if ONE person does 90+% of the damage on the map, why should do the other 4 players get any rewards than. Yeah I have done maps where I ALONE have done 90+% of the damage on the map with the other 4 being in the 2-3% range to JUST avoid the AFK penalty in advanced maps. Going by your logic, vote kicking people who don't perform up to the elitists level means vote kicking them out is fine...it is not. You seriously don't see a problem with a play with my way or else?!? The devs have set a threshold for what they consider you are AFK, if the player is meeting that, than they met the requirements and that is that.
Oh no no you misunderstand. I am not saying anything like that. Performing bad in a TFO is no reason to be kicked! Hell the person can be a beginner, low on EC, could be having a bad day, etc. I am in no way saying we should kick bad performing players. I am talking about pure afkers. Those that do NOTHING, not even engage the enemy just stay at the same spot the whole TFO not even engaging. Just moving slightly to ensure they dont get dced. Hope that was a bit more clear.
So what do you consider pure AFK?
Staying away from combat, possibly cloaking , not doing the missions and going on very low impulse to avoid being idle
Those people don't get rewarded though.
C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
There are sooo many afk players simply standing still throughout the TFO just to get the reward. Please add a kick feature where players can vote to kick afk or grieving players
I stand still through a few TFO's because I don't need to move to kill the enemy. Let's say Swarm, i play the first 2 parts and on the 3rd I just stand protecting my lane. Starbase One i just stand kill Klingons no need to fly around until the end. I often been talked to that I leech and that i m afk, yet I probably killed more then the person complaining. I think also that some people go afk because somebody is on the door, the phone is ringing by the end of the day its just a game and its not like you can't play the TFO's singlehanded. The whole system is a you get a reward for participation there is no difficulty no TFO you can't finish unless its bugged. I don't understand the point here. Are AFK people who are really afk and not even autofire / rotate ect... annoying ? Yeah maybe but why would I waste a single thought on if they get a reward or not? In this game there is no competition unless PVP which well is pretty dead. So I care less if somebody gets a reward box, if somebody opens a promobox and gets a ship. Maybe you need start asking yourself why that is such a big deal for you in a game where you can do almost everything single handed.
I do not have issues handling myself. My issue is people reaping rewards of someone else. If 3 people do all the work and 1 just stands there (no firing and anything) that person should not get any rewards. But either way I stand my ground. If there won't be a kick feature, at least ignoring a player should ensure you don't end up in the same team with that person again
So...going by that logic, if 3 people do 90+% of the damage on the map and the other 2 players basically do nothing...why should they get the reward? Hell if ONE person does 90+% of the damage on the map, why should do the other 4 players get any rewards than. Yeah I have done maps where I ALONE have done 90+% of the damage on the map with the other 4 being in the 2-3% range to JUST avoid the AFK penalty in advanced maps. Going by your logic, vote kicking people who don't perform up to the elitists level means vote kicking them out is fine...it is not. You seriously don't see a problem with a play with my way or else?!? The devs have set a threshold for what they consider you are AFK, if the player is meeting that, than they met the requirements and that is that.
Oh no no you misunderstand. I am not saying anything like that. Performing bad in a TFO is no reason to be kicked! Hell the person can be a beginner, low on EC, could be having a bad day, etc. I am in no way saying we should kick bad performing players. I am talking about pure afkers. Those that do NOTHING, not even engage the enemy just stay at the same spot the whole TFO not even engaging. Just moving slightly to ensure they dont get dced. Hope that was a bit more clear.
So what do you consider pure AFK?
Staying away from combat, possibly cloaking , not doing the missions and going on very low impulse to avoid being idle
Those people don't get rewarded though.
They still get the reward even if they only engage once.
This does not work. Following your example, you have now and will continue to have situations where people are built and capable of 20K+ DPS on teams with people doing 200K+ DPS who clear the map so fast, that one person (or more) were not able to hit your arbitrary DPS number. They will get penalized with an AFK here.
I am all for better tutorial information, however I will disagree that DPS should be the only metric to base activity on.
Show me anywhere that I mentioned an AFK penalty, as I never mentioned an AFK penalty in the positive or the negative in that post. What I did however say is that not pulling one's weight is valid reason to kick someone from the group. The DPS example is just the low hanging fruit that was used as a well known example. If the hypothetical TFO demands that everyone in there pull a minimum of 20k DPS, and 4 of the members are doing the 20k minimum, but the 5th guy is only at 10k, then the other 4 people would have every right to kick that person from the group under a vote kick system. Reason being is that 5th person isn't ready for the queue yet. Now I will grant you that DPS isn't the only valid measuring stick that can be utilized in a run, nor should it be. The Gravity Kills example brought up by Coldnapalm earlier (at least I think it was him) is a prime example. If you have 3 guys keeping ships under control, and 2 guys running particles, then those 2 people are still contributing to the run even though they're not doing any damage. They are still contributing by carrying out the objectives.
In my post above, I was not speaking about an AFK penalty that's applied automatically. I was answering the objection of "insufficient DPS isn't a valid reason to kick someone" and stating that yes, in fact it's a very valid reason to kick someone.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
This does not work. Following your example, you have now and will continue to have situations where people are built and capable of 20K+ DPS on teams with people doing 200K+ DPS who clear the map so fast, that one person (or more) were not able to hit your arbitrary DPS number. They will get penalized with an AFK here.
I am all for better tutorial information, however I will disagree that DPS should be the only metric to base activity on.
Show me anywhere that I mentioned an AFK penalty, as I never mentioned an AFK penalty in the positive or the negative in that post. What I did however say is that not pulling one's weight is valid reason to kick someone from the group. The DPS example is just the low hanging fruit that was used as a well known example. If the hypothetical TFO demands that everyone in there pull a minimum of 20k DPS, and 4 of the members are doing the 20k minimum, but the 5th guy is only at 10k, then the other 4 people would have every right to kick that person from the group under a vote kick system. Reason being is that 5th person isn't ready for the queue yet. Now I will grant you that DPS isn't the only valid measuring stick that can be utilized in a run, nor should it be. The Gravity Kills example brought up by Coldnapalm earlier (at least I think it was him) is a prime example. If you have 3 guys keeping ships under control, and 2 guys running particles, then those 2 people are still contributing to the run even though they're not doing any damage. They are still contributing by carrying out the objectives.
In my post above, I was not speaking about an AFK penalty that's applied automatically. I was answering the objection of "insufficient DPS isn't a valid reason to kick someone" and stating that yes, in fact it's a very valid reason to kick someone.
I agree with your post in principal.
However, these "DPS Bars" are currently only placed in Elite Queues. Take the beginning of Infected Elite for example, Cryptic has put this fight on a timer to serve as a 'DPS Check.' If you can't beat this opening fight in this time, then your team cannot handle the rest of the queue and you fail. You will only see this in Elite Queues, they do not do it in Beginner or Advanced (nor should they.) So your example only pertains to Elite Queues, and honestly, Elite Queues are not intended to be played with public match making. Can they be? Sure.. but by pugging Elites you're taking the risk of the exact scenario you described above where someone is simply undergeared or inexperienced and can't hold up their end of the deal causing a team fail.
Now, is it possible that someone has a low enough DPS to hurt the team chances in Advanced? I guess possibly.. but lets be honest.. Advanced is so easy and requires so little that it's highly unlikely. Is that small scenario really worth putting a system in place to avoid? Especially a system that could have adverse effect elsewhere in the game?
The question is one of benefit vs. reward. Does a kick system have merit? It does..yes, but it also opens the door to potential exploits for people looking to troll other people. The question has to be, is the scenario that this system would avoid, severe enough that dealing with it is worth the risk of the drawbacks.
Most of us feel that the answer to that question is no. We are not denying there is a problem, we are saying that this system is not the answer.
> @seaofsorrows said:
> Knock it off.
>
> If the discussion violates forum rules it will be closed, otherwise people are having a dialogue that you are more then welcome to ignore.
LMAO. You went south real fast. Guess sarcasm is not something you can recognize due to your reply.
Carry on...
Not the first time you have made a post like this in this thread with nothing at all to indicate you were joking. I'll admit when I'm wrong man, but this isn't one of those times. No way for me to know your intent from text without any emoji or anything to indicate a joke.
Oh no no you misunderstand. I am not saying anything like that. Performing bad in a TFO is no reason to be kicked! Hell the person can be a beginner, low on EC, could be having a bad day, etc. I am in no way saying we should kick bad performing players. I am talking about pure afkers. Those that do NOTHING, not even engage the enemy just stay at the same spot the whole TFO not even engaging. Just moving slightly to ensure they dont get dced. Hope that was a bit more clear.
Battle of Korfez and anything with a mandatory minimum would like to have a word with you on that one.
Folks shouldn't have to do 2092309482304918242398420398401928301275081428 DPS or whatever the current record is. But if a TFO requires everyone on the team to put forth 20k DPS at the minimum, and the person isn't meeting that 20k minimum, then they are not ready for that content and have no business being in that random queue until they up their game. If you have 4 people at the 20k minimum, and the 5th person is at only 10k DPS, then that 5th person not carrying their weight has guaranteed that run to fail because 10k DPS is missing from the team. That's not fair to the other 4 people in the run to be expected to carry the 5th guy. In that example the 5th guy is not ready yet, BUT will be given some proper time and learning. The group as a whole must be taken into account, and not just one guy. That's why I have also advocated for a Proving Grounds type of thing in addition to better tutorial type items.
Give people enough information to make a basic cohesive build and let them go from there. Not forcing a build, but give folks the info they need to make some basic builds and then decide from there what they want to do, and potentially get into more difficult content. As to how far up that ladder they want to go will be up to them. I'm willing to bet quite a few would agree that there's not enough critical information for folks to at least understand what each thing does. "Here's why it's a good idea to match weapon types" and some basic tips.
I know you're trying to put forth a simple straightforward example, but the problem is that 10k DPS person could very well be set up in a way that significantly increases the DPS of the other 4. This game is fairly complex when it comes to the possibilities of buffing and debuffing and such interactions. An arbitrary, if well intentioned, bar of 'you must have this much DPS to get on the ride' can entirely exclude people whose contribution dramatically raises everyone else's DPS.
I'm sure you're aware that a number of DPS parse chasers do this, they have 1 or 2 main DPS people supported by the rest with debuffs and buffs to push big numbers. We form teams and it is a team effort, and isolating one part of the team to see how they work on their own doesn't work.
AFK penalty aside, your example still does not work. People who may be capable of hitting an arbitrary required DPS number may get kicked because they were simply outperformed by someone far superior to them. It also ignores people initiating vote kicks just for the fun of it or because someone is using a ship they do not like.
Trolls are always going to find a way to abuse a system as there is no such thing as an abuse proof system unless the designer is omniscient and can account for all possibilities. There are always going to be elitists, and there are always going to be trolls, that's not going to go away just because we add a vote kick system, nor will it go away by not adding a vote kick system. If folks think that an abuse proof system can be created by anyone short of Q or other omniscient being/deity, it's not going to happen. Given that certain undesireables in the community would abuse a kick system, that's exactly why safeguards would be put in place to reduce the risk of it being abused. No it won't fix everything, and no it won't prevent all possible abuse, but it reduces it dramatically.
As much as you fear the vote kick being abused to kick people for using ships you don't like, it can also be used against the elitists as well. If someone is deliberately being a tool, you can kick them. If someone initiates a vote kick for using a ship they don't like, you vote it down and then kick them for being an elitist. So I have to ask, what do you people really want? Do you want something done about the AFKers, griefers, and elitists or do you not? Because more automated systems aren't going to do squat as that's what we have now. Automated systems can be abused by simply figuring out what their limits are and cheesing them. Folks do this enough right now to avoid AFK penalties by intentionally doing enough to avoid it. At some point somewhere, someone is going to have to get their hands dirty, that's unavoidable. As much as I may think the devs are good people, they're not close enough to the community to do it. The best they can do is give us the tools to do it ourselves and let us take care of it. It has to be the community ultimately that polices itself. Right now the AFKers and similar keep doing what they do because they know they can get away with it. There are no potential consequences for them. Oh noes not an AFK penalty they can dodge by moving around and engaging in combat for all of 10 seconds.
So straight up I have to ask, what do you folks really want them to do? What do you folks propose to do about the AFKers, griefers, elitists and so on? What we're doing right now clearly isn't working. More of the same isn't going to work, so something has to change or give. Right now I still maintain that folks seem like they want to just complain and not really do anything about it.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
@darkbladejk the problem with what you are saying is, how will someone KNOW they are not up to spec unless they TRY advanced? and if they TRY they should not be shamed because they failed, and yet, in my experience that is exactly what happens.
I'd much prefer having a system in place that would allow us to replace a player that leave a queue prematurely - whether with another player (through re-queueing, like in SWTOR) or with a semi-competent bot (even though the AI of this game is laughable, at best) - than a system to punish people that just sit AFK in a public queue.
A kick vote would be useful if people could stop being TRIBBLE for a single seconds, but since they cannot... then yeah, best to do nothing.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
There is already player controlled tools to prevent AFKs - friends lists and teaming with people you know who will not go AFK. Problem solved with zero development time. Again, if you want to roll the dice and PUG a TFO, then accept the consequences of your decision in that you may get teamed with people who do stuff you do not like.
Hate to say it.. but yep.. this is pretty much it. I only PUG maps that I know I can solo by myself.. if my team actually helps me, that's just a bonus. If I want to do a map where I want to work with a team, I ask for people in fleet or the DPS Channels. You just can't trust PUGS, no amount of development time is going to make people not suck.
After completing well over 300 random advanced TFO's this December I'm not seeing the need for a vote to kick feature.
With PUGS you find yourself in teams ranging from outstanding to good to could be better. Such is life. To be honest my #1 focus is having fun and mission completion and I didn't really notice any outstanding issues.
Maybe it's just a state of mind to be simply appreciative of being able to queue quickly and have fun in a game that's been around as long as STO and still doing well?
Instead of asking how can we vote kick (punish) afk and grieving players who's conduct by still getting a reward is abusive and unfair perhaps it's possible to reframe this into something more positive?
For me the focus is how can I equip my characters to be best prepared for whatever pug life throws at them and how can I work with the players that are participating to achieve the greatest possible success in whatever RTFO I get put into.
So far it's been good times and a welcome relief to play the wider game during a break from the featured TFO's with the extra payout for randoms more than compensating me for my time.
As odd as this may sound the randomness of the randoms actually makes things more interesting never knowing what you'll be thrown into.
Transdimensionsl Tactics. You get killed, you spawn in the cave and you are out of action for the duration. Consider that scenario with automatic kicks and AFK Damage Penalties.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Despite reading several of the comments, honestly I do Random Advanced on a regular basis, and only once in a blue moon can I recall someone who was AFK for the first minute or so. That was 3 weeks ago one time, and before that it was months before I remembered a similar experience.
I'm FINE with no kick feature as it is, and most games including this one, there is a lot more abuse by those who kick! I realize some said to put limits, so if (accounts) not (characters) use it too much, their ability to kick is greatly reduced, then eventually disabled for a period of time.
Still I'd rather see time on new features, missions, TFO's, ship skin/material enhancements, or bug fixes...
> @coldnapalm said:
> You have not bothered to read anything I posted still as all the questions you have asked has been answered...multiple times. If there is anyone who does not comprehend anything, you may want to look in the mirror there. But you know what, why I would I want to give more power or give credence to somebody like you again? Somebody who's reply back to actually read and understand something is to act like a 5 year old and go nah nah again? You are once again proving why they should do NOTHING.
Thought you were done. You really don't comprehended much. Your childish use of capital letters shows as such. You have been on a tirade for a time now, and not just in this thread.
Do I desire to piece together your comments and formulate it for you? No.
All I saw from you was complaints about abuse and more.
Again, if you want a dialogue, present your ideas and such in one (1) post and we can go from there.
Get some fresh air mate.
Wow...so clever to dismiss somebody because they used caps AFTER EXPLAINING THING MULTIPLE TIMES. If all you saw was complaints about abuse, your reading comprehension is so low, there is no point in having a discussion with you. AS LONG AS YOU ARE IN THIS GAME, I VOTE THAT THE DEVS DO LITERALLY NOTHING ON THIS MATTER. Yes YOU single handedly have convinced me that Sea and Val has the right idea and nothing should be done. You wanna have your power play have no AFK people...go make a private queue and have at it...but the devs should waste not even one iota of time on this issue. YOU are the reason why what they says has merit...congrats on being the person that proved that the people who complain about the AFKers are WAY more toxic than the AFKers and having me side with the leechers and AFKers. So...yeah congrats. I'm voting with Sea and Val...they should do NOTHING.
To be clear, the main reason I advocate ‘doing nothing’ is just because I simply don’t see AFK’ing as that big of a problem. Have I seen AFK players before? I certainly have.. but it’s rather rare. I actually haven’t seen an AFK player in some time and in my personal opinion, the issue of AFK players while valid, is simply not severe. To try and address a perceived problem by implementing a fix that has more potential downside then the issue you’re attempting to address does not make sense to me. I sit in the ‘do nothing’ camp because the proposed solution is worse then the problem we’re trying to fix.
I am not taking a side in your argument, just clarifying my stance.
There is already player controlled tools to prevent AFKs - friends lists and teaming with people you know who will not go AFK. Problem solved with zero development time. Again, if you want to roll the dice and PUG a TFO, then accept the consequences of your decision in that you may get teamed with people who do stuff you do not like.
This 100%, the perfect solution to never again seeing another AFK or toxic player ever again, not that i see that many myself to be honest, and i play almost always pugs if i am not doing missions looking for stuff i have missed.
The easiest solution would be to have the ignore feature actually NOT allowing for people on your ignore list to be grouped with you.
STO wouldn't even be the first game to have something like this. But of course, that's assuming that a) the system actually support this, b) they have any idea how to implement it.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
The easiest solution would be to have the ignore feature actually NOT allowing for people on your ignore list to be grouped with you.
STO wouldn't even be the first game to have something like this. But of course, that's assuming that a) the system actually support this, b) they have any idea how to implement it.
The devs have already indicated that they are not interested in this system. Mind you that you are correct in that this is the easiest solution that will have an effect while minimizing damage...and you MUST have this before you look at more drastic actions...but these people who don't actually want a solution and want to punish other players for their "bad play" don't care. They don't care SO HARD that can't even seem to read the words that spells this out. The devs don't care...so the solution is DO NOTHING because without this crucial step, all you do is make things worse. As for what about reasonable automated systems? Well...some of those were pushed out...but a certain person thought that a 5 second automated idle warning pop up followed by a kick and 1 hour ban was reasonable...so...reasonable automation is out of the question too since the window between that idea and using the idle system we have now and shorten it to 3 min for queues is wider than the Grand Canyon.
I'm not disagreeing with you on any of this, Cold.
Unfortunately, there will always be those that feels you're not playing as they WANT you to play and for that they're ready to kick you and punish you as hard as they can.
That's why having a proper ignore function would be the easiest - and safer - way to go about this. As you said, the devs are not interested in this and so I'm just gonna quote you entirely: "The devs don't care...so the solution is DO NOTHING because without this crucial step, all you do is make things worse."
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Or they could introduce a checkpoint, meaning the system asks for manual permission to continue: you click the button, you go on with the mission. If 3 click ok - out of a team of 5, so the majority of the players involved - then the mission go on.
Granted, it's not perfect because while rare yes, you could get 3 griefers in the same instance, but it would be better than having someone boothed because they needed to use the bathroom or, as it is now, an entire team eating a leaver penalty because someone decided to be a TRIBBLE.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Or they could introduce a checkpoint, meaning the system asks for manual permission to continue: you click the button, you go on with the mission. If 3 click ok - out of a team of 5, so the majority of the players involved - then the mission go on.
Granted, it's not perfect because while rare yes, you could get 3 griefers in the same instance, but it would be better than having someone boothed because they needed to use the bathroom or, as it is now, an entire team eating a leaver penalty because someone decided to be a TRIBBLE.
You could further reduce issue by having a none click in say 1 min count as a yes as well.
Or they could introduce a checkpoint, meaning the system asks for manual permission to continue: you click the button, you go on with the mission. If 3 click ok - out of a team of 5, so the majority of the players involved - then the mission go on.
Granted, it's not perfect because while rare yes, you could get 3 griefers in the same instance, but it would be better than having someone boothed because they needed to use the bathroom or, as it is now, an entire team eating a leaver penalty because someone decided to be a TRIBBLE.
You could further reduce issue by having a none click in say 1 min count as a yes as well.
Agreed, that could work perfectly too.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Comments
I do not have issues handling myself. My issue is people reaping rewards of someone else. If 3 people do all the work and 1 just stands there (no firing and anything) that person should not get any rewards. But either way I stand my ground. If there won't be a kick feature, at least ignoring a player should ensure you don't end up in the same team with that person again
The Tholian NPC's ignore cloak once aggro with their web so that's not a problem.
How would I pull them to afkers tho? The only way I see that happen is that multi tractor beam ability
Oh no no you misunderstand. I am not saying anything like that. Performing bad in a TFO is no reason to be kicked! Hell the person can be a beginner, low on EC, could be having a bad day, etc. I am in no way saying we should kick bad performing players. I am talking about pure afkers. Those that do NOTHING, not even engage the enemy just stay at the same spot the whole TFO not even engaging. Just moving slightly to ensure they dont get dced. Hope that was a bit more clear.
So what do you consider pure AFK?
Staying away from combat, possibly cloaking , not doing the missions and going on very low impulse to avoid being idle
Folks shouldn't have to do 2092309482304918242398420398401928301275081428 DPS or whatever the current record is. But if a TFO requires everyone on the team to put forth 20k DPS at the minimum, and the person isn't meeting that 20k minimum, then they are not ready for that content and have no business being in that random queue until they up their game. If you have 4 people at the 20k minimum, and the 5th person is at only 10k DPS, then that 5th person not carrying their weight has guaranteed that run to fail because 10k DPS is missing from the team. That's not fair to the other 4 people in the run to be expected to carry the 5th guy. In that example the 5th guy is not ready yet, BUT will be given some proper time and learning. The group as a whole must be taken into account, and not just one guy. That's why I have also advocated for a Proving Grounds type of thing in addition to better tutorial type items.
Give people enough information to make a basic cohesive build and let them go from there. Not forcing a build, but give folks the info they need to make some basic builds and then decide from there what they want to do, and potentially get into more difficult content. As to how far up that ladder they want to go will be up to them. I'm willing to bet quite a few would agree that there's not enough critical information for folks to at least understand what each thing does. "Here's why it's a good idea to match weapon types" and some basic tips.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
They still get the reward even if they only engage once.
In my post above, I was not speaking about an AFK penalty that's applied automatically. I was answering the objection of "insufficient DPS isn't a valid reason to kick someone" and stating that yes, in fact it's a very valid reason to kick someone.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
I agree with your post in principal.
However, these "DPS Bars" are currently only placed in Elite Queues. Take the beginning of Infected Elite for example, Cryptic has put this fight on a timer to serve as a 'DPS Check.' If you can't beat this opening fight in this time, then your team cannot handle the rest of the queue and you fail. You will only see this in Elite Queues, they do not do it in Beginner or Advanced (nor should they.) So your example only pertains to Elite Queues, and honestly, Elite Queues are not intended to be played with public match making. Can they be? Sure.. but by pugging Elites you're taking the risk of the exact scenario you described above where someone is simply undergeared or inexperienced and can't hold up their end of the deal causing a team fail.
Now, is it possible that someone has a low enough DPS to hurt the team chances in Advanced? I guess possibly.. but lets be honest.. Advanced is so easy and requires so little that it's highly unlikely. Is that small scenario really worth putting a system in place to avoid? Especially a system that could have adverse effect elsewhere in the game?
The question is one of benefit vs. reward. Does a kick system have merit? It does..yes, but it also opens the door to potential exploits for people looking to troll other people. The question has to be, is the scenario that this system would avoid, severe enough that dealing with it is worth the risk of the drawbacks.
Most of us feel that the answer to that question is no. We are not denying there is a problem, we are saying that this system is not the answer.
Knock it off.
If the discussion violates forum rules it will be closed, otherwise people are having a dialogue that you are more then welcome to ignore.
Not the first time you have made a post like this in this thread with nothing at all to indicate you were joking. I'll admit when I'm wrong man, but this isn't one of those times. No way for me to know your intent from text without any emoji or anything to indicate a joke.
I know you're trying to put forth a simple straightforward example, but the problem is that 10k DPS person could very well be set up in a way that significantly increases the DPS of the other 4. This game is fairly complex when it comes to the possibilities of buffing and debuffing and such interactions. An arbitrary, if well intentioned, bar of 'you must have this much DPS to get on the ride' can entirely exclude people whose contribution dramatically raises everyone else's DPS.
I'm sure you're aware that a number of DPS parse chasers do this, they have 1 or 2 main DPS people supported by the rest with debuffs and buffs to push big numbers. We form teams and it is a team effort, and isolating one part of the team to see how they work on their own doesn't work.
As much as you fear the vote kick being abused to kick people for using ships you don't like, it can also be used against the elitists as well. If someone is deliberately being a tool, you can kick them. If someone initiates a vote kick for using a ship they don't like, you vote it down and then kick them for being an elitist. So I have to ask, what do you people really want? Do you want something done about the AFKers, griefers, and elitists or do you not? Because more automated systems aren't going to do squat as that's what we have now. Automated systems can be abused by simply figuring out what their limits are and cheesing them. Folks do this enough right now to avoid AFK penalties by intentionally doing enough to avoid it. At some point somewhere, someone is going to have to get their hands dirty, that's unavoidable. As much as I may think the devs are good people, they're not close enough to the community to do it. The best they can do is give us the tools to do it ourselves and let us take care of it. It has to be the community ultimately that polices itself. Right now the AFKers and similar keep doing what they do because they know they can get away with it. There are no potential consequences for them. Oh noes not an AFK penalty they can dodge by moving around and engaging in combat for all of 10 seconds.
So straight up I have to ask, what do you folks really want them to do? What do you folks propose to do about the AFKers, griefers, elitists and so on? What we're doing right now clearly isn't working. More of the same isn't going to work, so something has to change or give. Right now I still maintain that folks seem like they want to just complain and not really do anything about it.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
A kick vote would be useful if people could stop being TRIBBLE for a single seconds, but since they cannot... then yeah, best to do nothing.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Hate to say it.. but yep.. this is pretty much it. I only PUG maps that I know I can solo by myself.. if my team actually helps me, that's just a bonus. If I want to do a map where I want to work with a team, I ask for people in fleet or the DPS Channels. You just can't trust PUGS, no amount of development time is going to make people not suck.
With PUGS you find yourself in teams ranging from outstanding to good to could be better. Such is life. To be honest my #1 focus is having fun and mission completion and I didn't really notice any outstanding issues.
Maybe it's just a state of mind to be simply appreciative of being able to queue quickly and have fun in a game that's been around as long as STO and still doing well?
Instead of asking how can we vote kick (punish) afk and grieving players who's conduct by still getting a reward is abusive and unfair perhaps it's possible to reframe this into something more positive?
For me the focus is how can I equip my characters to be best prepared for whatever pug life throws at them and how can I work with the players that are participating to achieve the greatest possible success in whatever RTFO I get put into.
So far it's been good times and a welcome relief to play the wider game during a break from the featured TFO's with the extra payout for randoms more than compensating me for my time.
As odd as this may sound the randomness of the randoms actually makes things more interesting never knowing what you'll be thrown into.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I'm FINE with no kick feature as it is, and most games including this one, there is a lot more abuse by those who kick! I realize some said to put limits, so if (accounts) not (characters) use it too much, their ability to kick is greatly reduced, then eventually disabled for a period of time.
Still I'd rather see time on new features, missions, TFO's, ship skin/material enhancements, or bug fixes...
To be clear, the main reason I advocate ‘doing nothing’ is just because I simply don’t see AFK’ing as that big of a problem. Have I seen AFK players before? I certainly have.. but it’s rather rare. I actually haven’t seen an AFK player in some time and in my personal opinion, the issue of AFK players while valid, is simply not severe. To try and address a perceived problem by implementing a fix that has more potential downside then the issue you’re attempting to address does not make sense to me. I sit in the ‘do nothing’ camp because the proposed solution is worse then the problem we’re trying to fix.
I am not taking a side in your argument, just clarifying my stance.
This 100%, the perfect solution to never again seeing another AFK or toxic player ever again, not that i see that many myself to be honest, and i play almost always pugs if i am not doing missions looking for stuff i have missed.
STO wouldn't even be the first game to have something like this. But of course, that's assuming that a) the system actually support this, b) they have any idea how to implement it.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
I'm not disagreeing with you on any of this, Cold.
Unfortunately, there will always be those that feels you're not playing as they WANT you to play and for that they're ready to kick you and punish you as hard as they can.
That's why having a proper ignore function would be the easiest - and safer - way to go about this. As you said, the devs are not interested in this and so I'm just gonna quote you entirely: "The devs don't care...so the solution is DO NOTHING because without this crucial step, all you do is make things worse."
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Granted, it's not perfect because while rare yes, you could get 3 griefers in the same instance, but it would be better than having someone boothed because they needed to use the bathroom or, as it is now, an entire team eating a leaver penalty because someone decided to be a TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
That is actually a good idea
Agreed, that could work perfectly too.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.