Wait what? Are you saying ppl brag to AFK'ers with their dps? Did I get that right?
No. But people do brag about AFKing certain TFOs because "they suck" or "they're so boring" or "I'm going to protest by AFKing."
The EPeen crowd likes big numbers. And they want others to know how big their numbers are. Anything that "brings them down" is WRONG and must be punished. To what degree depends on the individual though.
darkblade... normally I don't argue with mods, but the hat isn't on right now. We're all equal right now.
You're taking what I'm saying a bit more on the practical side. I'm leaning a bit more towards the ego side of some who are obsessed with their epeen performance. We actually had an incident here on the forums where someone got directed to a build guide over their build... and it was acutally the guy who WROTE said guide who got pointed to it!
On top of that... people WILL assume your build is terrible and will attack over it if so inclined if your "numbers" don't line up with some self percieved level requirement. Therein lies a problem because it could be that its NOT the build, but the player. But that doesn't matter to some people, its "get gud or gtfo". Someone might even just see Tetryon beams and assume they suck because its not the uber damage dealing metabuild of the week.
I'm not calling out the practicality of it. I'm calling out the Human side of it.
Like I said, we do need SOMETHING to deal with AFKers and toxic players in TFO runs. But at the same time we need to find a way to keep said system from being abused by elitists who get so bent out of shape if someone "drags their numbers down" in Infected. Because I hate to say it, but there are people in game who do that to varying degrees. And they don't care about your build other than the fact it is "obviously garbage" because you're not performing to their perceived level. Doesn't matter if you're a veteran or a rookie, you get the lash for insulting your superior by not performing as well or not using a "proper", by their definition, build. Anything that reduces their numbers is an insult. That could be you not having an optimized build, or it could be you having a megawell build that pulls things away from them while they're trying to alpha strike.
Its not all gear. Its ego.
I'm not totally against having a vote kick. I'm just seeing how it can be abused in the current environment.
To be honest, at this point, I find staying away from ISA as much as possible (except when Random dumps me in there) benefical; because if there is anywhere you're going to find an Epeen waving Juggernaught pilot, its there.
Controversial opinion here, but given the choice of some OP epeen waving 'look at muh DPS' bore or an AFK'er, I'll take the AFK'er.
Wait what? Are you saying ppl brag to AFK'ers with their dps? Did I get that right?
Not exactly, although I'd assume the AFK'ers see the parse numbers from the 'look at muh DPS!' bores when they post said results in chat.
I did encounter many AFKers (mostly in Azura Nebula Rescue Advanced) where they wouldn't move a bit but always taunt other players, saying stuff like "Thanks for the free run suckers, God you all suck, etc etc" Never saw anyone with that dps talk... perhaps not yet.
... I'm leaning a bit more towards the ego side of some who are obsessed with their epeen performance.
On top of that... people WILL assume your build is terrible and will attack over it if so inclined if your "numbers" don't line up with some self percieved level requirement. Therein lies a problem because it could be that its NOT the build, but the player. But that doesn't matter to some people, its "get gud or gtfo". Someone might even just see Tetryon beams and assume they suck because its not the uber damage dealing metabuild of the week.
I'm not calling out the practicality of it. I'm calling out the Human side of it.
Like I said, we do need SOMETHING to deal with AFKers and toxic players in TFO runs. But at the same time we need to find a way to keep said system from being abused by elitists who get so bent out of shape if someone "drags their numbers down" in Infected. Because I hate to say it, but there are people in game who do that to varying degrees. And they don't care about your build other than the fact it is "obviously garbage" because you're not performing to their perceived level. Doesn't matter if you're a veteran or a rookie, you get the lash for insulting your superior by not performing as well or not using a "proper", by their definition, build. Anything that reduces their numbers is an insult.
Its not all gear. Its ego. ...
I thought I was having fun playing advanced RTFO's this season but now after reading this it's like it's fueled my deepest fears so I'm considering going back to solo content only.
Or, maybe it would be a better choice to not be overly concerned about what others think and just enjoy the game ?
Like I said, we do need SOMETHING to deal with AFKers and toxic players in TFO runs. But at the same time we need to find a way to keep said system from being abused by elitists who get so bent out of shape if someone "drags their numbers down" in Infected. Because I hate to say it, but there are people in game who do that to varying degrees. And they don't care about your build other than the fact it is "obviously garbage" because you're not performing to their perceived level. Doesn't matter if you're a veteran or a rookie, you get the lash for insulting your superior by not performing as well or not using a "proper", by their definition, build. Anything that reduces their numbers is an insult. That could be you not having an optimized build, or it could be you having a megawell build that pulls things away from them while they're trying to alpha strike.
Sorry, but this just seems like a work of fiction to me.
No one trying to break a DPS record on ISA is doing it in a public queue. Secondly, low parsing players do not 'drag numbers down' for the high DPS'er, they actually inflate your numbers. The big problem with ISA and the reason most have moved to ISE is because there are only so many HP to go around. It's easy to cannibalize DPS in ISA because there are only so many HP to be taken. Players trying to push their numbers in public ISA queues don't give a rats TRIBBLE what anyone else is running, they would prefer that you do nothing at all so that's more DPS for them. Any 'DPS'er' I have ever talked to accepts the fact that they will have to carry some people in public queues, it's part of the game.
Honestly, this entire paragraph sounds like a work of fiction that you pulled out of your imagination. Is there Eliteism in the game? Yes.. there absolutely is. But you are obviously taking the most extreme case you can think of and trying to blow it up to sound like a common every day occurrence. The real fact is.. people that run ISA in public queues often completely ignore what everyone else is doing unless you're so strong you're taking DPS from them.
This entire paragraph is an over exaggerated, melodramatic act of fiction, nothing more.
darkblade... normally I don't argue with mods, but the hat isn't on right now. We're all equal right now.
You're taking what I'm saying a bit more on the practical side. I'm leaning a bit more towards the ego side of some who are obsessed with their epeen performance. We actually had an incident here on the forums where someone got directed to a build guide over their build... and it was acutally the guy who WROTE said guide who got pointed to it!
On top of that... people WILL assume your build is terrible and will attack over it if so inclined if your "numbers" don't line up with some self percieved level requirement. Therein lies a problem because it could be that its NOT the build, but the player. But that doesn't matter to some people, its "get gud or gtfo". Someone might even just see Tetryon beams and assume they suck because its not the uber damage dealing metabuild of the week.
I'm not calling out the practicality of it. I'm calling out the Human side of it.
Yes I remember that thread as I had to moderate some of it and was discussing it with some of my cohorts. Folks should know by now I am a realist when it comes to this stuff, and most things in this game in general. I understand calling out the human side of things and calling attention to the ego element of it. I don't like elitists and elitism anymore than the rest of the folks in here. At the same time, what folks need to understand is that ego element isn't going to go away. There will always be some kind of ego present in game no matter what system we go with. There are always going to be people who think they're the hottest things since the Big Bang and even the Q Continuum is jealous of their numbers. Every game and community has them and will always have them in some form or fashion. To get rid of the ego element completely you would need to change human nature itself. That's not going to happen without humanity as a whole growing up alot, or intervention from a divine/higher power.
As just one example. During my WoW days, I mained a DK tank. I was one of "those guys" who ran around as a Blood spec tank before blood was made the dedicated tanking spec. Back in those days Frost was the "official" tank spec, yet I was able to survive far far longer in blood than I ever could Frost. I got put into one of the harder instances of the expansion at the time and the first thing out of a guy's mouth was "oh another blood dk, just don't suck." Something goes horribly wrong with one of the pulls and I end up having to finish the boss fight from 50% of his health. At the end guy who was giving me grief says "you've got to be the best blood death knight I've ever seen." Best way to deal with people like that is to either put them on ignore, and/or put on a show so good they're forced to recant their statement. You're always going to have guys like that around in some form or fashion.
Like I said, we do need SOMETHING to deal with AFKers and toxic players in TFO runs. But at the same time we need to find a way to keep said system from being abused by elitists who get so bent out of shape if someone "drags their numbers down" in Infected. Because I hate to say it, but there are people in game who do that to varying degrees. And they don't care about your build other than the fact it is "obviously garbage" because you're not performing to their perceived level. Doesn't matter if you're a veteran or a rookie, you get the lash for insulting your superior by not performing as well or not using a "proper", by their definition, build. Anything that reduces their numbers is an insult. That could be you not having an optimized build, or it could be you having a megawell build that pulls things away from them while they're trying to alpha strike.
Its not all gear. Its ego.
I'm not totally against having a vote kick. I'm just seeing how it can be abused in the current environment.
With that said above, what I'm trying to get through to some folks in here is that you will ALWAYS have potential for abuse and you will always have elitism/ego in some form or fashion. To get rid of ego you would need to change human nature itself and that's not going to happen. As much as you may fear a vote kick feature being abused by elitist trolls to enforce their vision of "order" on a queue system, it can also be turned right back against them and get them booted from a queue. In my WoW days I didn't care if someone was top damage in a run, I would vote the guy out if I had the chance. No one got time for that elitist junk. If dude managed to kick me before I got to him, was no skin off my back, I could insta-queue again as a tank. He's waiting 30+ minutes where as I'm not.
As is right now the only thing folks can do is put someone on ignore and otherwise they're able to still continue to mess up your run. This allows you to put them on ignore AND stop them from fouling up the run. Point being you're never going to get rid of it completely and it's foolish to hang adding a new feature on something that requires changing of human nature before you proceed. No matter what you do, there's always going to be "that one guy" in some form or fashion. The question is whether or not folks are going to do something about "that one guy" or simply sit back and complain about it. So far from my perspective it seems like folks want to just sit back and complain about it without actually doing anything about it.
I would have to say no to a kick feature due to how easily it would be abused.
With all due respect a player staying at a single place throughout the TFO and not doing anything but still getting the reward is more abusive and unfair...
Another player doing nothing at all, is in no way "abusive". It doesn't prevent you playing the game, or getting your reward.
100% untrue and false. If someone is doing this, they are deliberately leeching from a run and deliberately slowing the run down on purpose. Try that junk in a Battle of Korfez as just one example and it's an automatic fail. That's the definition of abuse and trolling.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
People need to realize, every single system can be abused. There is no such thing as an abuse proof system. Folks already abuse the ability to AFK right now and still collect rewards. That hampers the other 4 players with no means of remedy for them. That is an even greater abuse than someone being booted from a run.
Yeah all systems can be abused...but one which can be SO BLOODY OBVIOUSLY abused that it took me all of 2 seconds to come up with how to do it is not a good system. Sometimes nothing at all is better than a bad system. And no, I don't think a system where you can grief other players out of their reward is better than one where one person leeches. Not saying I am a fan of leechers mind you...my past posts should be pretty clear on my views of them...but vote kick is a terrible idea that needs to go away in ALL games.
Yeah, I agree with you on this.
The best counter in advanced queues.. get your DPS up to the point where you can do it all yourself, then ignore your team. If they want to work together and everyone is active.. then great.. lets do this. If they are going to AFK or be stupid, I just ignore them and steam roll the queue by myself.
You can't argue with that when you have people blindly throwing money at lockboxes as the main source of income for the business model they use. Although its more clear with ground combat with the briefing time seeing what you are dealing with because if you see a minigun, blast assault, and/or herald lobi weapon its a dead giveaway that you are not dealing with knowledgeable players or possibly brand new players who haven't learned anything about the game yet.
Although the other side to this is that when DR started they made it too hard where you had to have people with brains in every TFO at the least two brains for each side of the design of the maps. However being that usually there is only one brain with higher functions with pugging the random queues you have to go in knowing you are going to have to solo it. Although one aspect they didn't do so well on was clinging to the pressing F interacting method like you see in Gateway to Gre'thor because of how boring that is people will just afk it. However you can take a look at one's such as Starbase One and you hardly ever see anyone afk that because it is fun to play. So with this example they need to remove that aspect of the radiation gateways and more on the aspect of random gateways being generated where ships are coming after your convoys. They just need to get better at balancing things out. Another aspect of this is looking at Undine, Dyson, and Badlands BZ's and the Tzenkethi one. Those first three would be excellent if they worked like that but however because you have to be directly in front of your target with the Tzenkethi ones and really stupid people grav well them it just makes people get pissed off. So to end this wall of text they need to get to a happy medium that can still make this fun without people just getting pissed off at stupid people.
Although its more clear with ground combat with the briefing time seeing what you are dealing with because if you see a minigun, blast assault, and/or herald lobi weapon its a dead giveaway that you are not dealing with knowledgeable players or possibly brand new players who haven't learned anything about the game yet.
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The Herald Lobi Staff is still one of the best ground weapons. It’s no longer ‘the best,’ but it’s top tier.
Rattler is messing up WANNABE DPSers with actual DPSers. You know, the ones who parse 50k is ISA ONCE and think they are the best thing in this game ever. And every time they don't reach that, it's because somebody else messed up. (name and shame comment removed) - darkbladek
Fair enough, and yes.. I remember the person you were referring to and point definitely taken.
Still, I don’t believe that these people are a majority or that the scenario outlined is by any means common. Still, point taken.
Rattler is messing up WANNABE DPSers with actual DPSers. You know, the ones who parse 50k is ISA ONCE and think they are the best thing in this game ever. And every time they don't reach that, it's because somebody else messed up. (name and shame comment removed) - darkbladek
Fair enough, and yes.. I remember the person you were referring to and point definitely taken.
Still, I don’t believe that these people are a majority or that the scenario outlined is by any means common. Still, point taken.
Majority, common...that wasn't the claim...or at least I don't think it was. The problem is that these people exists...and while rare, are in enough quantity to make gaming for some people difficult. I fly hybrid ships alot so I get to see these special players more than most I suppose. And the funny part is that I will almost always parse higher than they do.
If people are giving you grief put them on ignore. If it gets to the point of harassment then report them. Otherwise the problem is with them, not you.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
People need to realize, every single system can be abused. There is no such thing as an abuse proof system. Folks already abuse the ability to AFK right now and still collect rewards. That hampers the other 4 players with no means of remedy for them. That is an even greater abuse than someone being booted from a run.
Yeah all systems can be abused...but one which can be SO BLOODY OBVIOUSLY abused that it took me all of 2 seconds to come up with how to do it is not a good system. Sometimes nothing at all is better than a bad system. And no, I don't think a system where you can grief other players out of their reward is better than one where one person leeches. Not saying I am a fan of leechers mind you...my past posts should be pretty clear on my views of them...but vote kick is a terrible idea that needs to go away in ALL games.
Yeah, I agree with you on this.
The best counter in advanced queues.. get your DPS up to the point where you can do it all yourself, then ignore your team. If they want to work together and everyone is active.. then great.. lets do this. If they are going to AFK or be stupid, I just ignore them and steam roll the queue by myself.
You can't argue with that when you have people blindly throwing money at lockboxes as the main source of income for the business model they use. Although its more clear with ground combat with the briefing time seeing what you are dealing with because if you see a minigun, blast assault, and/or herald lobi weapon its a dead giveaway that you are not dealing with knowledgeable players or possibly brand new players who haven't learned anything about the game yet.
hey now...i like miniguns. i use full auto, miniguns, and dual pistols. for me its playstyle based. i find it less than optional you would call them not knowledgeable just because you have a playstyle different than theirs. id rather a minigun or blast assult give a darn and play the tfo then an afk any day.
Yeah, honestly.. I am not a fan of judging a players ability by the equipment they are using. It's often an inaccurate method. I have some captains that use off meta stuff that still easily carry a group.. the 'meta' is just the most effective.. it's not intended to imply that it's the 'only affective.' One must be very cautious in those judgments.
I feel like if ignore feature worked properly such a thing wont even be necessary
No it's still necessary. The ignore function only makes sure you don't have to see them again. Kick function gives folks a remedy in the here and now.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Kick function gives folks a remedy in the here and now.
It also gives the organized trolls (I'm not naming certain fleets but if you don't know who I'm talking about I would be intensely surprised) a weapon to use against anyone they want, just because they can.
one fleet out of tens of thousands is not a valid reason on its own
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Kick function gives folks a remedy in the here and now.
It also gives the organized trolls (I'm not naming certain fleets but if you don't know who I'm talking about I would be intensely surprised) a weapon to use against anyone they want, just because they can.
one fleet out of tens of thousands is not a valid reason on its own
3 trolls will get together and join the queue. They will play through to the very end then kick their 2 marks just before completion. They will do this all day every day drooling and bating. How often will YOU be the victim? I guess that's down to chance. But anyone who thinks there won't be hundreds of these trolls hasn't been paying attention during their life.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Kick function gives folks a remedy in the here and now.
It also gives the organized trolls (I'm not naming certain fleets but if you don't know who I'm talking about I would be intensely surprised) a weapon to use against anyone they want, just because they can.
one fleet out of tens of thousands is not a valid reason on its own
More than one fleet, but whatever. the poster after you got it. We will have people getting voted out of TFOs simply because the other players want to victimize someone.
in order to kick you, they must get into a group with you. that's why there would be safeguards against fleet groups just kicking people because. Just as you fear it being used against you, it can also be used against them. If you're for letting one or two groups hold back a feature for the betterment of the community, then you give those trolls power without them ever having to do anything at all. You will never have a 100% abuse proof system, and the long people want to hold back for that 100% abuse proof system that will never come, the long the status quo is maintained and nothing gets done.
like I've asked a few folks at this point, do you really want something done or do you not? if there is going to be something done about the AFKers, trolls, elitists and otherwise, something has got to give. Otherwise it's just folks complaining and nothing getting done.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
No, I don't want anything done. AFK is not a problem. It just gives me a chance to do more. Elitist are not a problem. I've had chat off for 8 years. Trolls are a problem. Giving them control is the craziest suggestion I've ever seen on these forums.
Consider the undine infiltration mission. I remember when people played all these missions. During that time I played this let's say 200 times. Every time I would wince waiting for someone to mess up the questions. How often was this on purpose? Who knows. But it was more than a few. Then we have placing the cover shield to block access to the final cave. This was done so often I believe they had to change the mechanic of the cover shield.
Even if the trolling is only 1% of players it will happen every single day, which is way more than it happens now.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Allowing the public into the equation is a recipe for a even bigger disaster so best to leave it as it is and let PWE and Cryptic deal with it, and yes it is not perfect by any means but one can do a lot to dodge this stuff, use the ignore feature, get together on forums like this and get into teams to keep the AFKs and leechers out of your run, and don't do pugs unless your looking for anything more than some fun casual runs as they are not the place to be expecting 4 other players to be sitting with DPS spread sheets open ready to go ballistic when you are only pulling 49k. lol
Kick function gives folks a remedy in the here and now.
It also gives the organized trolls (I'm not naming certain fleets but if you don't know who I'm talking about I would be intensely surprised) a weapon to use against anyone they want, just because they can.
one fleet out of tens of thousands is not a valid reason on its own
More than one fleet, but whatever. the poster after you got it. We will have people getting voted out of TFOs simply because the other players want to victimize someone.
in order to kick you, they must get into a group with you. that's why there would be safeguards against fleet groups just kicking people because. Just as you fear it being used against you, it can also be used against them. If you're for letting one or two groups hold back a feature for the betterment of the community, then you give those trolls power without them ever having to do anything at all. You will never have a 100% abuse proof system, and the long people want to hold back for that 100% abuse proof system that will never come, the long the status quo is maintained and nothing gets done.
like I've asked a few folks at this point, do you really want something done or do you not? if there is going to be something done about the AFKers, trolls, elitists and otherwise, something has got to give. Otherwise it's just folks complaining and nothing getting done.
I'm not sure what safeguards you think are remotely realistic, nor how a 3:2 ratio ever allows you to kick them if they happen to be grouping together.
Again though, I find this much ado about nothing. AFKers are not a serious problem, certainly not worth the problems that will come with a vote kick system. Doing something just to do something is never the answer.
What is the worse problem: A group of trolls kicking people out of a STF to deny them their payout or AFKers you probably don't even notice most of the time?
And again, I've offered a different solution, a vote to abandon which would kick out everyone, thus less likely to be used to TRIBBLE with people. You could even have it work so that voting no also gives you the option to stay in the STF while it refills with people, on the chance that the rest just wanted to abandon it because they hate that STF. A non-vote from an AFK person could auto count as a yes vote to abandon, and if you want to get fancy, have it detect activity during the vote period so that it looks for legitimately AFK people instead of people who may not be paying attention to the vote popup.
Comments
No. But people do brag about AFKing certain TFOs because "they suck" or "they're so boring" or "I'm going to protest by AFKing."
The EPeen crowd likes big numbers. And they want others to know how big their numbers are. Anything that "brings them down" is WRONG and must be punished. To what degree depends on the individual though.
I did encounter many AFKers (mostly in Azura Nebula Rescue Advanced) where they wouldn't move a bit but always taunt other players, saying stuff like "Thanks for the free run suckers, God you all suck, etc etc" Never saw anyone with that dps talk... perhaps not yet.
Or, maybe it would be a better choice to not be overly concerned about what others think and just enjoy the game ?
Sorry, but this just seems like a work of fiction to me.
No one trying to break a DPS record on ISA is doing it in a public queue. Secondly, low parsing players do not 'drag numbers down' for the high DPS'er, they actually inflate your numbers. The big problem with ISA and the reason most have moved to ISE is because there are only so many HP to go around. It's easy to cannibalize DPS in ISA because there are only so many HP to be taken. Players trying to push their numbers in public ISA queues don't give a rats TRIBBLE what anyone else is running, they would prefer that you do nothing at all so that's more DPS for them. Any 'DPS'er' I have ever talked to accepts the fact that they will have to carry some people in public queues, it's part of the game.
Honestly, this entire paragraph sounds like a work of fiction that you pulled out of your imagination. Is there Eliteism in the game? Yes.. there absolutely is. But you are obviously taking the most extreme case you can think of and trying to blow it up to sound like a common every day occurrence. The real fact is.. people that run ISA in public queues often completely ignore what everyone else is doing unless you're so strong you're taking DPS from them.
This entire paragraph is an over exaggerated, melodramatic act of fiction, nothing more.
As just one example. During my WoW days, I mained a DK tank. I was one of "those guys" who ran around as a Blood spec tank before blood was made the dedicated tanking spec. Back in those days Frost was the "official" tank spec, yet I was able to survive far far longer in blood than I ever could Frost. I got put into one of the harder instances of the expansion at the time and the first thing out of a guy's mouth was "oh another blood dk, just don't suck." Something goes horribly wrong with one of the pulls and I end up having to finish the boss fight from 50% of his health. At the end guy who was giving me grief says "you've got to be the best blood death knight I've ever seen." Best way to deal with people like that is to either put them on ignore, and/or put on a show so good they're forced to recant their statement. You're always going to have guys like that around in some form or fashion.
With that said above, what I'm trying to get through to some folks in here is that you will ALWAYS have potential for abuse and you will always have elitism/ego in some form or fashion. To get rid of ego you would need to change human nature itself and that's not going to happen. As much as you may fear a vote kick feature being abused by elitist trolls to enforce their vision of "order" on a queue system, it can also be turned right back against them and get them booted from a queue. In my WoW days I didn't care if someone was top damage in a run, I would vote the guy out if I had the chance. No one got time for that elitist junk. If dude managed to kick me before I got to him, was no skin off my back, I could insta-queue again as a tank. He's waiting 30+ minutes where as I'm not.
As is right now the only thing folks can do is put someone on ignore and otherwise they're able to still continue to mess up your run. This allows you to put them on ignore AND stop them from fouling up the run. Point being you're never going to get rid of it completely and it's foolish to hang adding a new feature on something that requires changing of human nature before you proceed. No matter what you do, there's always going to be "that one guy" in some form or fashion. The question is whether or not folks are going to do something about "that one guy" or simply sit back and complain about it. So far from my perspective it seems like folks want to just sit back and complain about it without actually doing anything about it.
100% untrue and false. If someone is doing this, they are deliberately leeching from a run and deliberately slowing the run down on purpose. Try that junk in a Battle of Korfez as just one example and it's an automatic fail. That's the definition of abuse and trolling.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
You can't argue with that when you have people blindly throwing money at lockboxes as the main source of income for the business model they use. Although its more clear with ground combat with the briefing time seeing what you are dealing with because if you see a minigun, blast assault, and/or herald lobi weapon its a dead giveaway that you are not dealing with knowledgeable players or possibly brand new players who haven't learned anything about the game yet.
Although the other side to this is that when DR started they made it too hard where you had to have people with brains in every TFO at the least two brains for each side of the design of the maps. However being that usually there is only one brain with higher functions with pugging the random queues you have to go in knowing you are going to have to solo it. Although one aspect they didn't do so well on was clinging to the pressing F interacting method like you see in Gateway to Gre'thor because of how boring that is people will just afk it. However you can take a look at one's such as Starbase One and you hardly ever see anyone afk that because it is fun to play. So with this example they need to remove that aspect of the radiation gateways and more on the aspect of random gateways being generated where ships are coming after your convoys. They just need to get better at balancing things out. Another aspect of this is looking at Undine, Dyson, and Badlands BZ's and the Tzenkethi one. Those first three would be excellent if they worked like that but however because you have to be directly in front of your target with the Tzenkethi ones and really stupid people grav well them it just makes people get pissed off. So to end this wall of text they need to get to a happy medium that can still make this fun without people just getting pissed off at stupid people.
The Herald Lobi Staff is still one of the best ground weapons. It’s no longer ‘the best,’ but it’s top tier.
Fair enough, and yes.. I remember the person you were referring to and point definitely taken.
Still, I don’t believe that these people are a majority or that the scenario outlined is by any means common. Still, point taken.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Yeah, honestly.. I am not a fan of judging a players ability by the equipment they are using. It's often an inaccurate method. I have some captains that use off meta stuff that still easily carry a group.. the 'meta' is just the most effective.. it's not intended to imply that it's the 'only affective.' One must be very cautious in those judgments.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
one fleet out of tens of thousands is not a valid reason on its own
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
3 trolls will get together and join the queue. They will play through to the very end then kick their 2 marks just before completion. They will do this all day every day drooling and bating. How often will YOU be the victim? I guess that's down to chance. But anyone who thinks there won't be hundreds of these trolls hasn't been paying attention during their life.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
in order to kick you, they must get into a group with you. that's why there would be safeguards against fleet groups just kicking people because. Just as you fear it being used against you, it can also be used against them. If you're for letting one or two groups hold back a feature for the betterment of the community, then you give those trolls power without them ever having to do anything at all. You will never have a 100% abuse proof system, and the long people want to hold back for that 100% abuse proof system that will never come, the long the status quo is maintained and nothing gets done.
like I've asked a few folks at this point, do you really want something done or do you not? if there is going to be something done about the AFKers, trolls, elitists and otherwise, something has got to give. Otherwise it's just folks complaining and nothing getting done.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Consider the undine infiltration mission. I remember when people played all these missions. During that time I played this let's say 200 times. Every time I would wince waiting for someone to mess up the questions. How often was this on purpose? Who knows. But it was more than a few. Then we have placing the cover shield to block access to the final cave. This was done so often I believe they had to change the mechanic of the cover shield.
Even if the trolling is only 1% of players it will happen every single day, which is way more than it happens now.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I'm not sure what safeguards you think are remotely realistic, nor how a 3:2 ratio ever allows you to kick them if they happen to be grouping together.
Again though, I find this much ado about nothing. AFKers are not a serious problem, certainly not worth the problems that will come with a vote kick system. Doing something just to do something is never the answer.
What is the worse problem: A group of trolls kicking people out of a STF to deny them their payout or AFKers you probably don't even notice most of the time?
And again, I've offered a different solution, a vote to abandon which would kick out everyone, thus less likely to be used to TRIBBLE with people. You could even have it work so that voting no also gives you the option to stay in the STF while it refills with people, on the chance that the rest just wanted to abandon it because they hate that STF. A non-vote from an AFK person could auto count as a yes vote to abandon, and if you want to get fancy, have it detect activity during the vote period so that it looks for legitimately AFK people instead of people who may not be paying attention to the vote popup.