There has to be a higher power at work?

bcstar · December 2020

I don't understand this so can someone quote text or something rational to help me comprehend...

1. people are willing to throw dollar bills at cryptic for a T6 Nova.
2. It could take a whopping "Ten Minutes" if that to make one look decent, Heck I am pretty sure I could doodle a good one in less than that.
3. people are willing to throw dollar bills at cryptic for a T6 Nova....

So I am quite confused, Heck even Fortnite didn't hold out as long to bring back the Recon Expert. Their must be a higher power at work from CBS.

I am not looking to troll if that what people are thinking, I just want people to voice up a bit and post what they would do or could do to change the minds at cryptic, In a meaningful manner that would at least put the passion to paper to maybe sway there decision on why wait. OH and yeah all ships are getting a T6 version. perhaps we will see this happen a little sooner? just some thoughts.

rattler2 · December 2020

bcstar wrote: »

2. It could take a whopping "Ten Minutes" if that to make one look decent, Heck I am pretty sure I could doodle

Concept art is one thing. Making a 3d Model that is compatible with existing parts for kitbashing is another, including textures for ALL hull materials and even existing shield visuals. On top of that there's stats, BOff layout, special console, starship trait...

For the record I too feel the Nova is due for a T6, but its going to take longer than 10 minutes. Ship design probably takes months from concept art to finished product.

Unknown · December 2020

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bcstar · December 2020

corinthalas wrote: »

Without knowing all the constraints and technical details of what STO's engine uses and requires of its ship models, I can't tell you how much technical work would go into getting a ship model game-ready. But I can tell you that *making* the model would take far longer than 10 minutes. Then you have to unwrap the model -- and it has to be unwrapped in a manner that its texture layout is compatible with other textures for all versions of the ship. And then you have to actually create the new textures for the model. And *THEN* you have to actually deal with all the technical details of making it game-ready -- things like assigning hardpoints for where beams, torpedoes, and cannon shots spawn, where impulse trails spawn, warp trails, etc, etc.

So 10 minutes? Hardly. Even 10 hours stretches credulity. But 10 business days? That should be pretty doable, assuming you have an artist dedicating all his or her time to this *one* project. It's also assuming the ship design and model doesn't have to leave Cryptic's offices to get approval by the IP owners, ie Viacomm-CBS. That can take another week or more of back and forth between different people and focus groups, etc. And only after that, assuming no changes are requested, is it ready to be added to the game.

None of this, of course, explains why it has taken *years* for the Nova to get an update....

Heh, So copy and paste plus adding a few console slots isn't going to cut it eh? j/k But yeah it may be intricate "BUT" they have been at it a long time, plus even tech modeling has come a LONG ways in the past 10 years. So aside from the budget on the programing for sophisticated design and pew pew Tech. Oh and a good manual with someone to learn said Programing and Pew Pew Tech knowledge. Surely they must have a cookie cutter set up for the production of ships, after all we see new ones what every 4 weeks??

Unknown · December 2020

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bcstar · December 2020

captiannemo117 wrote: »

bcstar wrote: »

It could take a whopping "Ten Minutes" if that to make one look decent

Okay then, fire up blender, you have 10 minutes to make a game ready model. Be sure to post the result here so we can critique it.

bcstar wrote: »

tech modeling has come a LONG ways in the past 10 years.

Aside from PBR, very little has changed in CAD in 10 years.

I really hate having to defend cryptic, but the levels of ignorance and entitlement in your post was just too much to go uncorrected.

How can it be ignorance when I am Seeking information... Also you forgot to add the Pew Pew Tech! I mean we have 3D modeling now how about whip one up in one of those? I was looking into one however, they are expensive!

EDIT: Ok all Joking aside if this is a CBS sanctioned game then why cant they borrow some or a lot of the CG modeling from TNG and other Star Trek shows? its all made already for 3D inceptions... and I Stress the word " Borrow "

Unknown · December 2020

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bcstar · December 2020

coldnapalm wrote: »

I'm sorry...but the 10 min claim is laughable at best. It's a lot of work for them to reskin a ship...however ridiculous it is that the T6 Nova has not happened yet. As for the higher power...yes...it's called personal bias. The T6 nova has not happened yet because the head dev has a personal bias against that ship...along with any faction that isn't one of the many shades of blue. The only thing that man does not like more than the KDF or Romulans or Dominion fans is the fans of the Nova.

Woah! That sounds uncomfortable working environment, But still what about converting CG Modeling to Gaming Ship Modeling? Could it be done? in a way to let the man chill a bit? Not to seem sarcastic but I bet if someone managed to convert the CG models to Gaming models, would be an awfully Rich individual... Has to be someone smart enough to come up with it?

Unknown · December 2020

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bcstar · December 2020

coldnapalm wrote: »

bcstar wrote: »

coldnapalm wrote: »

I'm sorry...but the 10 min claim is laughable at best. It's a lot of work for them to reskin a ship...however ridiculous it is that the T6 Nova has not happened yet. As for the higher power...yes...it's called personal bias. The T6 nova has not happened yet because the head dev has a personal bias against that ship...along with any faction that isn't one of the many shades of blue. The only thing that man does not like more than the KDF or Romulans or Dominion fans is the fans of the Nova.

Woah! That sounds uncomfortable working environment, But still what about converting CG Modeling to Gaming Ship Modeling? Could it be done? in a way to let the man chill a bit? Not to seem sarcastic but I bet if someone managed to convert the CG models to Gaming models, would be an awfully Rich individual... Has to be someone smart enough to come up with it?

That depends on what format the CG modeling was done in along with what format the game uses. Assuming that their custom engine even uses a standardized format....

Ah, and regarding making a star trek ship in ten minutes ill do it in 3 minutes just currently downloading the program ill post a pic in the flickr link one sec!

it took me longer to figure out how to upload the dang thing, also it does shoot phasers and torpedo's....

https://flic.kr/p/2kdxZSb

EDIT: Just wanted to add, I could probably design the CG To Gaming Crossover for them if I had 3 things 1. The Tech to work on. 2. Time, well maybe two things. but I would do it for free for them as well just as long as I get to keep the Tech.

shrimphead2015 · December 2020

bcstar wrote: »

https://flic.kr/p/2kdxZSb

EDIT: Just wanted to add, I could probably design the CG To Gaming Crossover for them if I had 3 things 1. The Tech to work on. 2. Time, well maybe two things. but I would do it for free for them as well just as long as I get to keep the Tech.

I want that ship.

bcstar · December 2020

shrimphead2015 wrote: »

bcstar wrote: »

https://flic.kr/p/2kdxZSb

EDIT: Just wanted to add, I could probably design the CG To Gaming Crossover for them if I had 3 things 1. The Tech to work on. 2. Time, well maybe two things. but I would do it for free for them as well just as long as I get to keep the Tech.

I want that ship.

Haha want it as is? or should I add some CG to it?

could I also interest you in a 2003 Trek Nova??

https://flic.kr/p/2kdA7BQ

legendarylycan · December 2020

that isn't a nova, it's a Y-Wing with upturned nacelles

szerontzur · December 2020

I would say that your.. confusion.. is undoubtably based on a lot of poor assumptions.

While having an IKEA-like assembly system for making new ships is a novel idea; I highly doubt the end results would go over well.

Beyond just the model sculpting, there's also a lot of texture work/mapping(there are still a lot of edge cases that slip between the cracks in the game where some windows are missing on certain parts of ships with certain textures, etc.); then there's assigning weapon hardpoints and probably a half dozen other things just to make the model/parts functional as a playable ship.

Then, you've got the actual data/stats of the ship(s), the slots, movement/animation. You've got the design and 'balancing' of the unique toys that come with the ship and the art/effects time to go with them.

You've also got all the levels of testing each of those phases to make sure things are working as intended.. and the numerous revisions/iterations along the way as the unexpected happens.

That's a lot more work than just a single person can do in "Ten minutes".

(As a side note, I'm still a bit sad that Spore effectively killed the Evolution genre of games..)

shrimphead2015 · December 2020

I'm just wondering if there was any preliminary groundwork started for a t6 Nova at Cryptic and that it was just "shelved" for the time being. If that was the case then I could see the development time cut down a bit.

On a side note I would really love to see the development process for making a ship in STO. I don't know the legalities of such a thing but it would be interesting for a developer to show us some of the things they do not only making the ships but the characters and maps as well.

jonsills · December 2020

shrimphead2015 wrote: »

On a side note I would really love to see the development process for making a ship in STO. I don't know the legalities of such a thing but it would be interesting for a developer to show us some of the things they do not only making the ships but the characters and maps as well.

They did a series of videos showing the work while designing the Risian weather-control ship. Should still be on YouTube.

rattler2 · December 2020

Those screenshots are from Spore.

bcstar · December 2020

shrimphead2015 wrote: »

I'm just wondering if there was any preliminary groundwork started for a t6 Nova at Cryptic and that it was just "shelved" for the time being. If that was the case then I could see the development time cut down a bit.

On a side note I would really love to see the development process for making a ship in STO. I don't know the legalities of such a thing but it would be interesting for a developer to show us some of the things they do not only making the ships but the characters and maps as well.

I would have to agree with seeing how the process is done. as the T6 does spark an interest in people across a spectrum of demography, I think that is essentially the essence what trek is about. Acceptance of ideas, thoughts in all cultures. Which is why I wish that yes, some specifics of the game is CBS and Cryptic, But without the needs and desires of us the fans and gamers. They would not be here in a sense where we are today, and to omit those aspects because of either shortsightedness or bias or what ever kind of robs people from how they see themselves in the Star Trek Culture. IMO that is probably the one thing I cannot grasp as a gaming consumer is why take away the things were are looking for? why not instead provide the "Whole Enchilada" for us to consume however we desire to?

Perhaps I am bitter in a sense when I was a kid the original star wars excitement came and went and didn't Re-emerge for 30 years?? Where as trek was a decade ahead in development. The 80's to most of the 90's growing up was devoid of it, that is until TNG began to air. I guess My point is this: Subjugation leads to a lot of nasty things, and it feels like lately we are being lead down that path. to me at least... Meh it is what it is I Suppose

Unknown · December 2020

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legendarylycan · December 2020

and unless you're specifically going for a cartoony look, even character creations don't end up coming out great - i think there are mods to make parts a little more realistic, but there's only so much you can do when the whole game was built around a specific kind of style

phoenixc · December 2020

bcstar wrote: »

corinthalas wrote: »

Without knowing all the constraints and technical details of what STO's engine uses and requires of its ship models, I can't tell you how much technical work would go into getting a ship model game-ready. But I can tell you that *making* the model would take far longer than 10 minutes. Then you have to unwrap the model -- and it has to be unwrapped in a manner that its texture layout is compatible with other textures for all versions of the ship. And then you have to actually create the new textures for the model. And *THEN* you have to actually deal with all the technical details of making it game-ready -- things like assigning hardpoints for where beams, torpedoes, and cannon shots spawn, where impulse trails spawn, warp trails, etc, etc.

So 10 minutes? Hardly. Even 10 hours stretches credulity. But 10 business days? That should be pretty doable, assuming you have an artist dedicating all his or her time to this *one* project. It's also assuming the ship design and model doesn't have to leave Cryptic's offices to get approval by the IP owners, ie Viacomm-CBS. That can take another week or more of back and forth between different people and focus groups, etc. And only after that, assuming no changes are requested, is it ready to be added to the game.

None of this, of course, explains why it has taken *years* for the Nova to get an update....

Heh, So copy and paste plus adding a few console slots isn't going to cut it eh? j/k But yeah it may be intricate "BUT" they have been at it a long time, plus even tech modeling has come a LONG ways in the past 10 years. So aside from the budget on the programing for sophisticated design and pew pew Tech. Oh and a good manual with someone to learn said Programing and Pew Pew Tech knowledge. Surely they must have a cookie cutter set up for the production of ships, after all we see new ones what every 4 weeks??

"Console slots" are not part of the model, they are part of the programming and database that make a ship function. They have mentioned that there are boilerplates for various ship roles to make it quicker and easier to do the programmed parts but that would not help the model itself any. And the model is very crude by today's STO ship standards.

STO does not have a huge developer staff so they have a limited amount of things they can do, and the ship schedule only has so many slots available, and one of them mentioned recently in a stream that half of next years slots are already full with finishing up what they wanted to do this year.

That means that when some new ship gets pushed to the front of the line it kicks everything else back, and the Nova seems to have the lowest priority of them all so anything at all kicks it back and it undoubtedly gets forced off the "current" years list to "next" years list, then the next year gets pushed back into the one after that, etc.

kemaiku · December 2020

reyan01 wrote: »

shrimphead2015 wrote: »

I'm just wondering if there was any preliminary groundwork started for a t6 Nova at Cryptic and that it was just "shelved" for the time being. If that was the case then I could see the development time cut down a bit.

On a side note I would really love to see the development process for making a ship in STO. I don't know the legalities of such a thing but it would be interesting for a developer to show us some of the things they do not only making the ships but the characters and maps as well.

I strongly suspect not. As @coldnapalm said, it seems a lot like someone who makes the decisions regarding ships hates the Nova class.

Given we see the Nova class used at the Battle of Procyon V we know the design is being used until at least 2556. Picard season 2 showing some familar designs, it included, might bump it up the list a little.

bcstar · December 2020

reyan01 wrote: »

shrimphead2015 wrote: »

I'm just wondering if there was any preliminary groundwork started for a t6 Nova at Cryptic and that it was just "shelved" for the time being. If that was the case then I could see the development time cut down a bit.

On a side note I would really love to see the development process for making a ship in STO. I don't know the legalities of such a thing but it would be interesting for a developer to show us some of the things they do not only making the ships but the characters and maps as well.

I strongly suspect not. As @coldnapalm said, it seems a lot like someone who makes the decisions regarding ships hates the Nova class.

This is kind of what's eating at me... meh

spiritborn · December 2020

To be honest I wouldn't put too much hope on the ships appearing in the Battle of Procyon V in ENT as those ships were never meant to be seen in detail so they used just what ever models they had available rather then having specific plans for what ships would show up.

As for making a game ready model in 10 mins, yeah that's not gonna happen, a rough profile that kind of looks like a Nova if squint really hard maybe, but a model that would work in the game no, not really.

bcstar · December 2020

spiritborn wrote: »

To be honest I wouldn't put too much hope on the ships appearing in the Battle of Procyon V in ENT as those ships were never meant to be seen in detail so they used just what ever models they had available rather then having specific plans for what ships would show up.

As for making a game ready model in 10 mins, yeah that's not gonna happen, a rough profile that kind of looks like a Nova if squint really hard maybe, but a model that would work in the game no, not really.

Heh i was strongly exaggerating the 10 min folks, I meant i could Sketch one out in ten... yeah i know its not easy, yet i wish i could just borrow a dash of ideas from one good game add it to another game take some sparkles from another mix it on a bowel and go Ah HA!!!! seeeeeee!!!!!

kemaiku · December 2020

reyan01 wrote: »

kemaiku#5456 wrote: »

reyan01 wrote: »

shrimphead2015 wrote: »

I'm just wondering if there was any preliminary groundwork started for a t6 Nova at Cryptic and that it was just "shelved" for the time being. If that was the case then I could see the development time cut down a bit.

On a side note I would really love to see the development process for making a ship in STO. I don't know the legalities of such a thing but it would be interesting for a developer to show us some of the things they do not only making the ships but the characters and maps as well.

I strongly suspect not. As @coldnapalm said, it seems a lot like someone who makes the decisions regarding ships hates the Nova class.

Given we see the Nova class used at the Battle of Procyon V we know the design is being used until at least 2556. Picard season 2 showing some familar designs, it included, might bump it up the list a little.

I'm not so sure - none of the new series have really featured ships from previous series, the obvious exception being the Constitution class, but they redesigned that ship.

I mean, I guess 'Picard' did give us a TOS era Romulan BoP and a Borg cube, but otherwise? Nothing really.

I know, but we're seeing a little more attention to science ships right now, hopefully the sales of the Titan will convince them there's a good enough market for it if nothing else.

evilmark444 · December 2020

bcstar wrote: »

2. It could take a whopping "Ten Minutes" if that to make one look decent, Heck I am pretty sure I could doodle a good one in less than that.

I could be wrong, but I believe Thomas has said that it takes something like three or four weeks to build a new ship model, plus all the new ships have been rigged for the new Canon hull materials (might add time, might not, I'm not a dev so idk but they've made a point to mention it every time). So the notion that it would only take ten minutes is laughable.

With all that said, they've finished all the Disco era ships and have almost every other Canon ship at T6 now, so I'd expect it to come soon-ish, probably after the Lower Decks ships (only because they are newer Canon designs and likely more familiar to the overall fanbase). If there's no T6 Nova by the end of 2021 I will be shocked.

evilmark444 · December 2020

kemaiku#5456 wrote: »

hopefully the sales of the Titan will convince them there's a good enough market for it if nothing else.

Can't really use the Titan to estimate interest due to the bug that made it available to Klingons, a lot of people probably only purchased it for the lulz when they found out (I certainly did ).

legendarylycan · December 2020

well, if people did it once, they'll do it again when the next single store release 'accidentally' ends up being purchasable by the other side

szerontzur · December 2020

I'll be honest, I absolutely adore the Nova as a ship(I loved cruising around in it while leveling my first character and always had a fondness for it before STO), but I confess I probably wouldn't get a T6 version if it came out.. especially with how nice and flexible the Titan is as an aggressive Science Vessel.

The only way I might give it consideration is if it were a full pilot ship with flanking.. and/or had a trait strong enough to put Tyken's Rift back into serious meta consideration(competing with Gravity Well is an extremely tall order).

Unknown · December 2020

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There has to be a higher power at work?

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