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  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    I dont ussually critisize others, but your posts in this tread OP seems like you dont value the work of the people behind the design of the ships, you seem to act like the guy that goes to a designer and tell them to just put a letter in the logo, or that you know more than the pros.. and the ship staff in this game are pros, really pros, i do would like a nova, i dont know why, if or when, they will release it, but thinking that is just press of a button... well... it's not..
    The forces of darkness are upon us!
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    Just as the lack of proofreading of any Announcement Blog, the lack of a T6 Nova/Rhode Island is a deliberate troll of the playerbase.

    The addition of new powers that overwhelm the screen, the persistence of KITT Drones, the dancing Elachi. They are all indicative of the mindset vis-a-vis the Players.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
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  • edited December 2020
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  • bcstarbcstar Member Posts: 335 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    reyan01 wrote: »
    We are talking about a specific thing that has been asked for for an extended period of time. I never claim to speak FOR other people, sir. In this case, I have chosen to add my voice to theirs. You on the other hand seem to often take a contrary position to what people have to say. And your typical position is most often one of excuse-making for Cryptic, who, based on observation are without excuse.

    You speak as if you know what's always going on in their offices, but as far as I know, you are just a member of this community with no more real knowledge of what is going on than I or anyone else have. The difference, sir, is what you see and what I see.

    Let's face it. Cryptic relies on the people in this community to throw money at this game. I submit that those who do so would do so for a top-tier nova just as they would for anything else that gets released. So there is just as much potential for profit from the top-tier nova (I keep saying top-tier, because by the time they actually get around to delivering it, we'll probably have T7, T8 or T9 ships. So if there is just as much potential for profit from it, as there is from things that nobody even asks for, then logic dictates that it makes sense to go ahead and produce it. But no... that makes too much sense, and this is Cryptic, so we cannot have that, now can we?
    Many things have been asked about for an extended period of time. How long did it takes for us to get a fill all button for rep projects? How long did it take for us to get a Hur'q storyline? Hell, item stacking increase took AGES.

    I have also repeatedly stated that the Nova, Olympic, Oberth, and the Dyson Science Destroyers, are the ships I want to see made T6 the most, and would prefer them over most anything else. Only the other lower tier ships lacking a T6 version currently would come close. The difference is, unlike you, I don't take developers not catering to me specifically, in the time frame that I desire, as some sort of personal attack that I then use to make some sort of ridiculous argument that them not doing so much be part of some giant, Illuminati-like, conspiracy, or sheer incompetence, or some lack of funding by PWE. Its just basic work priorities you can see in any job. I see the same thing at my job every day.

    I also have never spoken as if I know what is going on in their offices. So that entire line of attack is hollow. Much like the rest of your other attempted attacks.

    And I submit that just because you don't like it doesn't mean no one asked for it. I don't care about targs, but I know people who have asked to be able to play like a Targ Handler, so I'm not upset Cryptic made it with this most recent event reward. And logic dictates Cryptic goes after whatever they think will get them the most bang for their buck. At the current time, that is content related to the newest Trek shows, since that is more likely to get more people interested in the game, and likely to buy something. Something like the Nova is decisively less profitable in comparison. Cryptic has access to metrics we can't even begin to know the beginning of, and if their metrics suggest the general playerbase isn't that interested, that would override what a small handful of people on the forums say.

    The point is conceded.

    Because it does not matter what we want. Whatever we say we want is just going to be ignored in favor of what THEY say we want. It doesn't matter how capable they are of delivering it. That being the case, it makes no sense to argue further.

    Which is exactly why I've avoiding saying too much in this thread. It has gone exactly the way these threads always do; expressions of displeasure at Cryptic's lack of interest in player/customer feedback regarding the subject, replies that agree with the OP and Som explaining, at great length, why those opinions are wrong and Cryptic is right.

    The primary reason I asked for my Nova class thread (the one that was over two years old) to be closed was that it was clear, to me at least, that it was a complete lost cause and the only thing it really acheieved was to show that Cryptic are not interested in player feedback.

    It is clear there are two valid arguments to be said, whether cryptic is wrong or right kind puts the situation at that argument rather than we simply would like to see a nova class, as whether the post of two years should of been closed is debatable simply because people are still going to always most certainly keep asking for it, and ill let that be the thorn in cryptics side of not producing said ship. It isn't our fault we would like to see the ship more involved simply because we are fans and like the ship. Regardless how many hours it takes to design and produce the ship. being that we still have not received one in a very long time, is like i said on cryptics end not the player base and not on the fan base either.

    Edit: Let me propose a solution to all of this, @reyan01 Revise your thread as not an argument but rather a proposal to cryptic as an official thread of a show of hands who would like to see the nova. nothing more just a simple yes we would like to see the ship, because people will always ask for the ship. secondly then leave it solely up to cryptic to decide, even if its a flat out no. the head dev may change his mind, there is nothing wrong with that. Plus he could maybe decide to embrace it and become the hero in all of this. But in the end I think a solid show of hands that their is people who would really like to see the ship would be encouraging.
    Post edited by bcstar on
    klingon%2Bbird%2Bof%2Bprey.jpg

    "bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"

    Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,608 Arc User
    szerontzur wrote: »
    /or had a trait strong enough to put Tyken's Rift back into serious meta consideration(competing with Gravity Well is an extremely tall order).

    IN order to make Tyken's Rift viable again, they'd have to reverse the massive nerfing of Drain overall. I love the idea of them doing that, more Science options are always better, but that nerf is complex. It happened when they made Drain ability and Drain resistance the same skill. And they nerfed the Plasmonic Leech into irrelevance.

    Equating the ability to use a skill with the ability to resist that skill was a very bad design decision in the first place, (it smacks of the kind of idiocy some manager came up with), but I don't see them ever undoing it.

    Again, I love the idea of TR specifically, and Drain overall, returning to viability, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

  • bcstarbcstar Member Posts: 335 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    > @bcstar said:
    > It is clear there are two valid arguments to be said, whether cryptic is wrong or right kind puts the situation at that argument rather than we simply would like to see a nova class, as whether the post of two years should of been closed is debatable simply because people are still going to always most certainly keep asking for it, and ill let that be the thorn in cryptics side of not producing said ship. It isn't our fault we would like to see the ship more involved simply because we are fans and like the ship. Regardless how many hours it takes to design and produce the ship. being that we still have not received one in a very long time, is like i said on cryptics end not the player base and not on the fan base either.
    >
    > Edit: Let me propose a solution to all of this, @reyan01 Revise your thread as not an argument but rather a proposal to cryptic as an official thread of a show of hands who would like to see the nova. nothing more just a simple yes we would like to see the ship, because people will always ask for the ship. secondly then leave it solely up to cryptic to decide, even if its a flat out no. the head dev may change his mind, there is nothing wrong with that. Plus he could maybe decide to embrace it and become the hero in all of this. But in the end I think a solid show of hands that their is people who would really like to see the ship would be encouraging.






    That's exactly how that thread started. Again, Cryptic don't care about player feedback.

    that is all fair, but at the same time it gives people a place to at least put it all in one thread, because like I said I am sure there will be more of these threads as time progresses...
    klingon%2Bbird%2Bof%2Bprey.jpg

    "bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"

    Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
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  • bcstarbcstar Member Posts: 335 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Okay, not going to directly quote something Som said, because I'm not really interested in defending my opinion against the usual contrarian, condescending, comments.

    I am however going to address this heap of nonsense that was said:
    And I submit that just because you don't like it doesn't mean no one asked for it. I don't care about targs, but I know people who have asked to be able to play like a Targ Handler, so I'm not upset Cryptic made it with this most recent event reward. And logic dictates Cryptic goes after whatever they think will get them the most bang for their buck. At the current time, that is content related to the newest Trek shows, since that is more likely to get more people interested in the game, and likely to buy something. Something like the Nova is decisively less profitable in comparison. Cryptic has access to metrics we can't even begin to know the beginning of, and if their metrics suggest the general playerbase isn't that interested, that would override what a small handful of people on the forums say.

    Yeah - whatever they think will give them the most bang for their buck. Problem is, what if they're wrong?

    I mean it would be more than fair to assume that, since they are inconspicous by their absence, the 'Picard' series ships (you know, one of the new series) have not gotten them 'the most bang for their buck'. Whether this is because of the method of obtaining them or lack of interest in the ships themselves I don't know, but the La Sirena has almost no visible presence in the game, I've only seen one of the new Synth escorts so far, and whilst I've seen a few Inquiry class ships (and own one myself) they're not exactly a frequent sight either. Not going to count the Romulan BoP as that ship is riding on the coat-tails of nostalgia and wasn't native to that series.

    So in this case their vaunted Metrics should be "suggesting that the general playerbase isn't that interested". Which just proves the point that metrics are only part of the story here.

    And none of this changes the fact that they have a frankly offensive attitude toward player feedback. It doesn't matter if its only "a small handful of people"- implying that our opinions/feedback is irrelevent because we're "only a small handful of people" is an offensive attitude.

    Quite interesting regarding the attitude of a MMO company when MMO's are few and far between for top notch AAA ones. HOWEVER things might change to Light Sabers soon that EA plans to put all there games on all platforms or so I heard. To which yeah I have spent a bit of real $$ in this game but it doesn't hold a candle to the amount of time and money I have invested in SWTOR.... So yeah those " Small Handful of People" they neglect could essentially Swim in a different river one day...
    klingon%2Bbird%2Bof%2Bprey.jpg

    "bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"

    Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
  • westx211westx211 Member Posts: 42,337 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Okay, not going to directly quote something Som said, because I'm not really interested in defending my opinion against the usual contrarian, condescending, comments.

    I am however going to address this heap of nonsense that was said:
    And I submit that just because you don't like it doesn't mean no one asked for it. I don't care about targs, but I know people who have asked to be able to play like a Targ Handler, so I'm not upset Cryptic made it with this most recent event reward. And logic dictates Cryptic goes after whatever they think will get them the most bang for their buck. At the current time, that is content related to the newest Trek shows, since that is more likely to get more people interested in the game, and likely to buy something. Something like the Nova is decisively less profitable in comparison. Cryptic has access to metrics we can't even begin to know the beginning of, and if their metrics suggest the general playerbase isn't that interested, that would override what a small handful of people on the forums say.

    Yeah - whatever they think will give them the most bang for their buck. Problem is, what if they're wrong?

    I mean it would be more than fair to assume that, since they are inconspicous by their absence, the 'Picard' series ships (you know, one of the new series) have not gotten them 'the most bang for their buck'. Whether this is because of the method of obtaining them or lack of interest in the ships themselves I don't know, but the La Sirena has almost no visible presence in the game, I've only seen one of the new Synth escorts so far, and whilst I've seen a few Inquiry class ships (and own one myself) they're not exactly a frequent sight either. Not going to count the Romulan BoP as that ship is riding on the coat-tails of nostalgia and wasn't native to that series.

    So in this case their vaunted Metrics should be "suggesting that the general playerbase isn't that interested". Which just proves the point that metrics are only part of the story here.

    And none of this changes the fact that they have a frankly offensive attitude toward player feedback. It doesn't matter if its only "a small handful of people"- implying that our opinions/feedback is irrelevent because we're "only a small handful of people" is an offensive attitude.

    Something I've noticed a lot from people defending cryptic is that they're say "Obviously the company knows what they're doing and have the data to guarantee they make the most money"

    When that's simply not at all how economics work. Data is only part of the equation. And it depends on how they interpret that data. Say for example "Cryptic releases really terrible klingon only ship. Klingon only ship sells poorly. Cryptic thinks this means its a waste to make klingon ships because their ship did poorly, without looking into WHY it did poorly."

    A good example of something you can see in game is that Cryptic refuses to make more bridges because they feel its a waste of money because not enough people buy them. BUT, that's ignoring several critical points.
    First, most of the bridges are as old as STO itself is, and many of them are pretty ugly and choppy, due to them cutting corners back then. So of course players aren't going to want to buy a bad product.
    THen Most of the good bridges are either in very expensive bundles, like 2k for a show accurate bridge, or tied to lockbox, lobi, promo ships. Meaning that they will have a harder time determining how bridges factor into those sales of those ships(From what I've seen in game it has affected a few ship releases), and their data will show more people refusing to buy an overpriced product, but to them all they see is "Players no want bridges, bridges no good" when they haven't put forth the effort necessary to figure out how to properly monetize bridges.
    Third, there isn't much utility to bridges anymore, doff projects are severely outdated and many of the ones on bridges aren't worth the trip. Which leads to many just using bridges for account bank access.

    I agree with what you've said, I've yet to see a single La Sirena, and the T'liss is all over the place because its a legendary ship, and a good legendary ship. It had nostalgia backing it. But While the Inquiry seemed to do better than the La Sirena, it definitely didn't do as well as other promo ships have.

    Lastly, Metrics can be wrong too. There can be errors in data.
    Men are not punished for their sins, but by them.
  • trekkiejedigirl#9564 trekkiejedigirl Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    As someone who holds a masters degree in both coding and gaming graphics i usually avoid commenting in threads like this one for the very reasons of the directions this one has gone in here on it's second page. The Dev bashing and total lack of understanding in how much work is involved in the creation of reskinning a ship and making that ship available for us to use being shown here is laughable which is why I will not comment on whatever is said regarding what I point out here. Consider it my saying my peace and my going back to being someone who just wishes to have fun both here on the forums and in game. Back to my point: It seemed like on page one OP and those others of you who commented you seemed to understand at least in most of the comments I read some of the work and creativity involved and that it indeed takes time! And to the OP: I don't know whether or not you were joking with your ten minute comment but in reality,it would be more like I saw in someone else's comment, ten days and that is not including whether or not the new design would need studio approval. Tack on about a month for that with all the back and forth just for starters. I've worked with ppl in Hollywood before when I was recovering from my accident and I can personally tell you they are never satisfied and hard to please. So in short, I think we'll see a T6 Nova eventually. But it is just not a priority at the moment with all the other new ships and things coming out this year. There, I'm done. Now y'all can tell me I'm a stupid girl and how little I know, lol. :) Y'all have a lovely day!! <3
  • edited December 2020
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  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,100 Arc User
    well, if people did it once, they'll do it again when the next single store release 'accidentally' ends up being purchasable by the other side​​

    Great use of the '', there!
    What's laughable here is people still believing it was a bug... rofl.
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
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  • bcstarbcstar Member Posts: 335 Arc User
    As someone who holds a masters degree in both coding and gaming graphics i usually avoid commenting in threads like this one for the very reasons of the directions this one has gone in here on it's second page. The Dev bashing and total lack of understanding in how much work is involved in the creation of reskinning a ship and making that ship available for us to use being shown here is laughable which is why I will not comment on whatever is said regarding what I point out here. Consider it my saying my peace and my going back to being someone who just wishes to have fun both here on the forums and in game. Back to my point: It seemed like on page one OP and those others of you who commented you seemed to understand at least in most of the comments I read some of the work and creativity involved and that it indeed takes time! And to the OP: I don't know whether or not you were joking with your ten minute comment but in reality,it would be more like I saw in someone else's comment, ten days and that is not including whether or not the new design would need studio approval. Tack on about a month for that with all the back and forth just for starters. I've worked with ppl in Hollywood before when I was recovering from my accident and I can personally tell you they are never satisfied and hard to please. So in short, I think we'll see a T6 Nova eventually. But it is just not a priority at the moment with all the other new ships and things coming out this year. There, I'm done. Now y'all can tell me I'm a stupid girl and how little I know, lol. :) Y'all have a lovely day!! <3

    I was joking and even used spore to demonstrate my overall ability to build a ships so... Can only do so much with the tools we have. But here is the thing EVEN SWTOR has been able to fix game glitches on their starting worlds after 7 years of complaining about them. Playing on the mission Taris on console, cannot be completed totally bugged. So it says a lot where game Dev's focus their priority's and what exactly the do with the income they receive from people like us the consumers of their products. Regardless how old the content is its unplayable content and should have been addressed a very long TRIBBLE time ago. That is the difference I am trying to explain to people. there should be no bias from the dev department on something they cater to its not in there job description. The content should work seamlessly after all that is what we initially pay for. As for the Nova I find it kind of disgusting one person holds a bias to the ship in a GAME THEY CREATED for ANOTHER IP and CONSUMERS...
    klingon%2Bbird%2Bof%2Bprey.jpg

    "bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"

    Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
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  • garaffegaraffe Member Posts: 1,353 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    This is the same argument people tried to pull on the Legendary Romulan Bundle, and the Legendary Discovery Bundle. "No one bought the Rom bundle! I never see anyone flying the ship around! The Disco bundle must be another attempt to make the bundle work because no one got the last one!" And yet, the stated reason they did the Disco bundle was because the Rom bundle did very well.

    I would be very surprised if the Rom bundle was successful because players were like "Oh wow, a bundle! I am so glad they released a bundle! Let me go buy that bundle!"

    As a player who plays solely Romulan Republic, I suspect it is more along the lines "Oh wow, a Romulan designed ship! They have finally released a new Romulan ship! I can't believe we finally have a new Romulan ship! I need to show the Devs that I will support them if they release Romulan ships."
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    I was very surprised that your entire post was responded to enmasse, rather than each sentence being parsed individually with the geometric logic that Captain Queeg and his strawberries would be proud.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • [quote="

    I was joking and even used spore to demonstrate my overall ability to build a ships so... Can only do so much with the tools we have. But here is the thing EVEN SWTOR has been able to fix game glitches on their starting worlds after 7 years of complaining about them. Playing on the mission Taris on console, cannot be completed totally bugged. So it says a lot where game Dev's focus their priority's and what exactly the do with the income they receive from people like us the consumers of their products. Regardless how old the content is its unplayable content and should have been addressed a very long TRIBBLE time ago. That is the difference I am trying to explain to people. there should be no bias from the dev department on something they cater to its not in there job description. The content should work seamlessly after all that is what we initially pay for. As for the Nova I find it kind of disgusting one person holds a bias to the ship in a GAME THEY CREATED for ANOTHER IP and CONSUMERS...[/quote]

    Figured ya was joking about the ten minutes, lol. Hey, I play SWTOR too, lol. Been there since the beginning too. same username just w/o the numbers. I play STO more often tho. Where else can I blow stuff up from my Jem'Hadar T6 Carriers, lol. :)
  • reyan01 wrote: »
    garaffe wrote: »
    I can't believe we finally have a new Romulan ship! I need to show the Devs that I will support them if they release Romulan ships."

    I'm not convinced that logic works either in this case.
    Romulans are my peeps! New Romulan ship!. Guess I haven't looked around enough yet. I mostly play Romulans but I haven't had my internet back that long. I own every other Romulan vessel. Thanks for telling me! :)
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