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The Discovery Operations Pack!

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    shaneo3shaneo3 Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    The wait continues for more Romulan ships (particularly science warbirds), T6 re-designs of some of their existing awesome T5 Cryptic models, like the Dysons, Vo'quv, original birds of prey, and ridiculously (!) overdue canon ship: Nova/Rhode Island with proper updated model and T6 variant.

    Also hope Disco gets cancelled before Romulans show up: don't want to see them get the Klingon treatment and subsequent ugly models ported into STO when Cryptic artists are often exceptional at making in-house designs.

    Also that "once per account" thing is really not honoring the player base who spend real cash on playing multiple characters and factions.

    unlikly , romulans are always portrayed as having very elegant vessels even in tos , so if they do appear , it will be rather purty
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    shaneo3shaneo3 Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    iamynaught wrote: »
    Last night, I posted that the sale was generous. And it is, I mean 30% off is a large discount.

    However, I was in a rush and looking back on that comment, it may have seemed like I was fine with this pack at 8400 zen if they made the BOff's and combat pet account unlocks instead of once for a single character. That is not the case. The value of this pack is sorely lacking in my eyes.

    At best, 5 ships if you don't already own the Discovery Starter Pack, one of them not meant for endgame and only 2 for Fed and 2 for KDF, no cross faction ships. Sorry Roms and Jems. Though I guess Roms and Jems should be able to at least fly their Allies ships. But no confirmation on that so far. Let's say they relent and allow the BOff's and combat pet to be account wide. There are also 2 apparently full uniforms, 1 for Fed, 1 for KDF along with a Federation 'head' costume unlock. Lastly are some Upgrade kits, some XP boosts and 10 Master Keys. All for 12k Zen off sale. (There may be a discount for those who already own the Discovery Starter Pack, but none has been mentioned.)

    Looking at the other non-Starter packs at their normal price we have the Romulan (15k Zen), Delta (15k Zen), Temporal (13k Zen) and Gamma (13k Zen).

    Looking back now, it would seem that the Romulan pack, at least in this age of T6 ships, may be slightly overpriced. But then you see what you get and there are 9 ships (Romulan only), 5 meant for endgame and 4 others not. Also included is a BOff that is account wide (Romulans only), a playable small ship/fighter/shuttle (Romulan only), a species unlock, a pack of 3 Duty Officers that is account wide (Romulans only), 2 Romulan only uniforms and 30 master keys.

    Next up is the Delta pack with 9 total endgame ships. No crossfaction ships, so 5 Fed, 2 Romulan and 2 KDF. There are 2 account wide uniform unlocks with no restrictions. We also get 3 BOffs and 3 DOffs that are per character. Last but not least are 3 Ship Upgrade Tokens (takes certain T5 ships to T5-U, allowing them to be endgame worthy) and 3 Upgrade kits.

    Moving on to the Temporal pack and here we have 12 total ships, with at least 7 of them being meant for endgame*. There is an account wide EV suit (Fed only) and 6 uniforms (Fed only), plus an account wide BOff (Fed only). There are 6 Temporal Operative Specialization Qualifications and 3 Upgrade kits as well.

    Last but not least we have the Gamma pack with 10 cross faction, endgame ready ships along with 2 species unlocks that allow play on either Fed or KDF side. One account wide uniform and an account wide EV suit. Closing out the pack are 3 account wide BOff's, 2 large XP boosts and 3 upgrade kits.

    Older packs seem to have much more value to them than this new pack, So, let's only compare the things that will likely matter the most to players; ships, additional personnel, uniforms and additional lower value items. Then see where *I* rank them. Titles hold ZERO value to me, so I won't even acknowledge them.

    Ships -
    1. Gamma
    2. Temporal
    3. Delta
    4. Romulan
    5. Discovery

    This one is tough to judge. If we go by total, it would be Temporal wining. But, you have to look at all sides and KDF/Roms/Jems only get access to 3 of the ships. (Unless some of those ships are in the list that Roms and Jems can fly, then that would make it better for them, obviously. But KDF are left out here.) Despite the Romulan pack ships being Rom restricted, there are simply more of them. The 5 endgame ships will require upgrade tokens to make them truly endgame worthy, but even then they get the edge. They also get a small craft so that is always usable, though may not be as useful.

    Additional personnel - This will include BOff's, DOff's combat pets and unlocked species.

    1. Gamma
    2. Delta
    3. Romulan
    4. Temporal
    5. Discovery

    Tough to call on this one, but I put Gamma first due to the 2 species unlocks. Just barely though. I put Romulan ahead of Temporal in this instance because while both Romulan and Temporal Bundles have a restricted BOff, the Romulan pack also offers the pack of 3 DOff's.

    Uniforms - I will include the EV suits in this section as they can be worn as a visual.

    1. Delta
    2. Temporal
    3. Gamma
    4. Discovery
    5. Romulan

    Another difficult one to rank this, and this is just my opinion, but with the Delta uniforms being cross faction, they get the nod simply because they are open to everyone. Temporal obviously has more uniforms, but they are restricted to Fed only. It's the sheer number that kept it ahead of the Gamma pack this time, though the EV suit in the Gamma pack is account wide and not faction restricted like the Temporal EV suit. And I'll probably get some hate for it, but while the Discovery Uniforms only really contain 1 uni for Fed (plus a new head detail) and 1 uni for KDF, I think the fact it has broader reach than the 2 Romulan uniforms gives it a slight edge.

    Other items - This would be the XP boosts, the upgrade tokens and keys.

    1. Delta
    2. Temporal
    3. Gamma
    4. Discovery* & Romulan*

    With the #4 and #5 spots, this gets kind of confusing, so it's a tie. I'd like to put the Discovery pack at #4 if the player doesn't own the Discovery Starter pack already simply due to the items that would come with the starter pack. An additional XP boost and the extra Inventory slots, that are unfortunately locked to the character who purchases it, are not bad. And then the non-combat pet and scaling weapons are decent for alts who are still leveling. With only keys in the Romulan pack, even though it is 30 keys, there's just not enough 'extra' to give it an edge. But, that's also 20 extra chances at getting a big ticket item, and at the very least 80 Lobi. Hmm... yeah, tie.

    I'd have to say the best value pack we've gotten so far is the Gamma Pack. The number of items is just immense, especially compared to the upcoming Discovery pack. For 1k more Zen you get 6 additional ships that also happen to be CROSS FACTION. Just for that alone, it makes it more worth the money.

    I'm willing to bet more will be added to the new Discovery pack. Maybe 1 or more ships, hopefully for both factions and not just Fed. I can see them "allowing" the BOff's and combat pet to be unlocked account wide.

    Who knows what else they may add, if anything, but even if they add 2 more ships for BOTH Fed and KDF, it's still not worth 12k Zen to me. A price STARTING at 10k Zen with the above listed additions would seem fair, then that 30% sale would put it at 7k Zen, which would be a price I could see myself going for.

    With the pack as it stands now though, BUT with the BOff's and combat pet being account unlocks, (this is a deal breaker, no matter the cost) a starting price at 7500 zen would be about right. With 30% off of that at launch (5250 Zen), again, I think I would buy.

    I can see them allowing the BOff's/combat pet to be account wide, but not lowering the price. No sale for me.

    I can see them adding to the pack but keeping the BOff's/combat pet 1 per account and the price the same. No sale for me.

    I can see them adding to the pack, allowing the BOff's/combat pet to be account wide but keeping the price. Unless the added stuff is a huge amount, no sale for me.

    tl;dr

    Add additional items to the pack to give it a greater value. Allow the BOff's and combat pet to be unlocked account wide. Add at least 1 more ship to both Fed and KDF. Or, at the very least, lower the starting price of the pack.

    As it is now, not even with someone else's money would I buy this pack as it will just encourage this type of thing in the future.

    *An argument could be made that the Ranger could be meant for endgame, but with it lacking the ability to be upgraded to T5-U, *I* don't consider it as an endgame ship. But that is a different argument for another place and time.

    yes i would say it is a good idea if they delay this for when one the romies are included somehow or change the terms on the items .
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    duasynduasyn Member Posts: 492 Arc User
    Pack seems a bit light for the price? Now I know in the past they announced packs and then a week later (for extra 'press' I guess?) they add stuff to it to add value. I assume this will follow the same model?
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    gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    when Mega go on sale, do individual pieces go on sale at the same time?

    Yes, but i'm not quite sure about the boffs… the ships are ok, no complains there.. its the nonsense about the boffs and the pet that i find too restricted, for the price...
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    ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,571 Arc User
    12,000 not 120,000
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    captaincelestialcaptaincelestial Member Posts: 1,925 Arc User
    Will the Shran and Gagarin ships have discovery era skins/appearance options or just the 25th century look?
    Thank you.

    Also, can the Bridge Officer's be customised or are they static like the Hierarchy one?

    Sounded like the DiscoFed one will be somewhat customizable (maybe whether it wears the helmet and/or the vest).

    It would have both 'modern' look and disco era skins, like the Nimitz/Europa-class Heavy Battlecruiser ship.
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    ddesjardinsddesjardins Member Posts: 3,056 Media Corps
    For what is it, it should be

    6000 Zen
    +30% off
    All BOFFS Account Bound

    The temporal has 11 ships at 12000 zen, this is 4 at 120000

    This ^.

    Missteps in marketing and finance, and the long-term decisions to focus on rolling back support for the Klingon has had an effect. I'll buy the Fed ships individually for the first time, and actually save zen. Cryptic margin will be higher, but there will be far fewer transactions.

    When you've rolled back content support for Klingons, I stopped playing them. I "stopped so much", I lost my berth in the fleet I was very happy to call home. They even gave me a warning, and were nice enough to let me stay another month without playing. I just simply had more to do with Fed and to a lessor extent, Fed-aligned Romulans. I think the Discovery season 1 design on the Klingon ships left me with a bad taste in my mouth, even though I actually enjoy Discovery.

    The only reason why i play Romulans now is that they're aligned to my Fed fleet, which I control. They have a home, and access to fed ships.

    I am less likely to support my ship addiction when the batch is tainted with the occasional Klingon ship. Your original design work is exemplary - but why buy something I will never use, and you won't support? It's not a matter of cost, but interest. If I don't play KDF, why the heck should I buy KDF gear? The set was once something I thought was a great investment, but with the character only TRIBBLE, it's not very appealing.

    Based on past purchases - it's insulting.

    You reap what you sow. Nothing fertile with the KDF, and this whale no longer cares about adding more ships he'll only play once.

    ......Until you drop the charade of 'factions' and allow any faction to join any fleet. Now that would get my interest and $$ back.

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    evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    The only item I'm interested in is the Disco vest.
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    starshine#7408 starshine Member Posts: 127 Arc User
    To veterans, how long usually is it between announcement and release for this sort of pack/ships?
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    evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    To veterans, how long usually is it between announcement and release for this sort of pack/ships?

    This is the first time I know of where a pack like this is coming without being part of an expansion, so it's hard to say.
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    anubis0sarvouranubis0sarvour Member Posts: 168 Arc User
    wow this is garbage. for 12k zen you traditionally get 9+ ships? Plus a bunch of account goodies. This is for 4 ships, 2 account unlocks, and a bunch of single character unlocks? Maybe for 5000 zen? But this is more of a Starter Pack than anything else. Comparing to the Temporal Agent Starter pack for example. The full Temporal bundle was 10 or 11 ships plus a bunch of account unlocks, Delta was similar, even Dominion added 8 or 9 ships and new races and account unlocks. What the heck is up with this pricepoint?

    I'll definitely be getting those other packs. But this one? Not at that price point, even w/30% off. I can understand the Keys being once per account, but the BOffs & Combat Tardi? Deal BREAKER.
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    timberwolf#2067 timberwolf Member Posts: 49 Media Corps
    For what is it, it should be

    6000 Zen
    +30% off
    All BOFFS Account Bound

    The temporal has 11 ships at 12000 zen, this is 4 at 120000

    This ^.

    Missteps in marketing and finance, and the long-term decisions to focus on rolling back support for the Klingon has had an effect. I'll buy the Fed ships individually for the first time, and actually save zen. Cryptic margin will be higher, but there will be far fewer transactions.

    When you've rolled back content support for Klingons, I stopped playing them. I "stopped so much", I lost my berth in the fleet I was very happy to call home. They even gave me a warning, and were nice enough to let me stay another month without playing. I just simply had more to do with Fed and to a lessor extent, Fed-aligned Romulans. I think the Discovery season 1 design on the Klingon ships left me with a bad taste in my mouth, even though I actually enjoy Discovery.

    The only reason why i play Romulans now is that they're aligned to my Fed fleet, which I control. They have a home, and access to fed ships.

    I am less likely to support my ship addiction when the batch is tainted with the occasional Klingon ship. Your original design work is exemplary - but why buy something I will never use, and you won't support? It's not a matter of cost, but interest. If I don't play KDF, why the heck should I buy KDF gear? The set was once something I thought was a great investment, but with the character only TRIBBLE, it's not very appealing.

    Based on past purchases - it's insulting.

    You reap what you sow. Nothing fertile with the KDF, and this whale no longer cares about adding more ships he'll only play once.

    ......Until you drop the charade of 'factions' and allow any faction to join any fleet. Now that would get my interest and $$ back.

    I agree with LootCritter here, 100%
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    anubis0sarvouranubis0sarvour Member Posts: 168 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    ferroequus wrote: »
    Here is a Romulan ship I'd like to see come to STO:

    1593.jpg

    YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! I was just having a conversation about this and the V-11 Stormbird! (Rom D-7s) in chat (Player had his T6 warbird named "Winged Defender").
    Post edited by anubis0sarvour on
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    captaincelestialcaptaincelestial Member Posts: 1,925 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    One of the main differences between this pack and AoY is that it has ships for the Klingon characters, while the AoY was devoid of that.

    I hope that there will be AoY packs for Klingons and Romulan characters, that would include the TOS variants shown in AoY's tutorial mission, as well as 26th Century versions of the KDF and Romulan Republic ships).

    It would be worth it to have those ship packs for the KDF and Romulan Republic, even if there wasn't an expansion to the AoY expansion to show how Klingon and Romulan characters becoming (AoY style) Temporal Agents.

    I hate to break it to you, but everything that WAS created for the Klingon space critter groups from that era for the most part have been given away as either a promotional box ship or a lock box ship, except for a D5 raptor, so there's not much that they can really do there.

    On the Romulan side of things, the Romulans had barely anything more to do. There was the T'liss Frigate (which the skin existed already and given to the Temporal cruiser promotional pack), The Khenn Cruiser (the Romulan version of the Klingon D7) and the Thrai battleship (released as a Dreadnought Cruiser in the Undiscovered lockbox).

    I think the biggest issue of them doing Temporal Agents for Klingons and Romulans is that they have to justify a reason for them becoming Temporal Agents in the first place, especially after they are brought to the future.

    - Kliingons: When we are introduced to the Klingons, they establish that they are an Empire, which means that unlike the United Federation of Planets, Klingons prefer to conquer planets and subject them to imperial rule. While Temporal Agent Klingons could adjust to the 25th century as the Klingons and the Federation are still fighting, there would be a larger adjustment since even though there was a treaty signed, the Klingons still liked to challenge the Federation as an adversary. We see in a lore blog of Klingons awaking from stasis on K-13 that they have quite the adjustment to make since the Federation by that point are allies, something that they have never really known.

    - Romulans: Just like the Klingons, the Romulans are introduced as an antagonistic Empire, but seem to be rather isolationist, breaking the isolation in order to test a new ship design against one of their neighbors. Even though they were an Empire, they were less interested in expansion through war and more interested in taking what they could covertly. I think Temporal Agents would likely have a problem transitioning to how things are done for the 25th century, since they would be leaving an Empire and being funneled into a Republic, a situation that they would likely not be too please d about since they would have to battle the Star Empire, which is what they've known.

    There's a huge difference between Klingons on K-13 and Klingon player characters who wouldn't be frozen in time, but rather through the tutorial section that leads to the integration into 25th Century KDF. With the use of Speed Training and Reclamation technology, the character would be brought up to date with current affairs anyways. Either Daniels (using a personal holo-emitter to appear as a Klingon) or an actual Klingon Temporal Agent would help with the transition.

    The lead up to end of the TOS Klingon part of the story would be Kor accepting the aid of the Envoy. Perhaps the character sides with the TOS era Captain B'vat to try to stop Kor/Envoy alliance?

    When the Dominion faction was introduced, they bundled Jem'Hadar and Cardassian ships from the earlier lockboxes with updated versions of those ships. So there's already precedent. Plus, there's the D5 Raptor, and I assume the D3 Bird-of-Prey (considering Bad Robot created Disco era BoPs) that wasn't included in previous lockboxes. Besides, I'd like to see a D11 Carrier.

    There are enough Romulan ships to create TOS analogues of Romulan Republic ships for the TOS RSE faction/bundle.
    So this wouldn't be such a big deal for a bundle for the TOS KDF and TOS Romulan Star Empire.

    It wouldn't be hard to weave TOS KDF and TOS Romulans into 25th Century, like what was done with the TOS Starfleet faction.

    This is where the Tutorial/TOS missions came in handy for TOS Starfleet, to usher the player to the role of Temporal Agent.

    In the 'Balance of Terror' (where Mark Leonard portrayed the Romulan Commander; later he was cast as Spock's father, and the captain of the lead Klingon D-7 battlecruiser), the Romulans were shown as honourable (the cloaking technology was more akin to submarines 'Run silent, run deep', rather than something deceitful). The Romulan Commander had sacrificed his life to fool the crew of the Enterprise into thinking they destroyed the Bird-of-Prey while the Romulans made good their escape. The Klingons were the treacherous kind in TOS, which helped distinguish the people of the two empires beyond pointy ears(Romulans) and dark makeup (Klingons) beyond appearances.

    Fun fact: due to production costs, Norway Productions replaced the Romulans with Klingons because pointy ears prosthetics were expensive enough as it was for one person (Spock/Leonard Nimoy), let alone a crew (which is why only the Romulan Commander and Subcommander went without ear-covering helmets). When they decided to bring back the Romulans for one last time, with the Cloaking Device (which was still Romulan-specific technology) as the McGuffin for the story 'The Enterprise Incident', the original model for the Bird-of-Prey, unfortunately was destroyed by it's creator (you should read about it in the synopsis of the episode in Wikipedia). So they used the Klingon's D7, explained away as part of a technology exchange...

    It was in the TNG era where the Romulan/Klingon dynamic switched, where the Romulans became treacherous and conniving, the Klingons developed an honour system. Mind you, it was the father of Duras who betrayed Mog and the Klingon colonists on Khitomer, allowing the Romulans to conquer it by letting down the defences.

    The Romulans of the TOS era would have be shocked by the destruction of Romulus, and would want to learn more about exactly what had happened. As part of their story, players of the TOS RSE faction would learn about what happened to Romulus, the splintering of the Romulan Star Empire and it's different subfactions. The RSE that the TOS Romulan knew is long gone, merely a remnant of what once was, their homeworld destroyed by Hakeev, Taris (as a pawn) and the Iconians, let alone what to happened to the Galorndon Core colony world by Na'kuhl and the Envoy's Doomsday Machine, as the Romulan Republics rise are good reasons to switch to the new Romulan homeworld/government.

    It would be nice if the TOS RSE character would bridge the divide of the Romulan diaspora.


    When Daniels debriefs the Romulan character/uses the Speed Training and Reacclimation process, they are told they are going to be given a choice of which faction to help out (while keeping an eye out for Na'kuhl/temporal meddling) and then they are dropped off at the floatilla where the character gets to decide to aid they Klingons or the Federation. If anything else, maybe the character at first seeks to use this newfound position to spy on the factions they ally with, and eventually discover what really happened to Romulus.

    "Remember, do NOT tell ANYONE about your status as a temporal agent. Your goal is to observe and correct, not to interfere." The last part is tough one for Romulans, but the Buttterfly Effect episode is an excellent case study of what could happen if the TOS RSE character at least tried to use time travel to try to interfere with the timeline to restore Romulus.
    Post edited by captaincelestial on
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    fewzzfewzz Member Posts: 242 Arc User
    For what is it, it should be

    6000 Zen
    +30% off
    All BOFFS Account Bound

    The temporal has 11 ships at 12,000 zen, this is 4 at 12,000

    Plus 16 Fleet Ship Modules
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    atroxvincentiusatroxvincentius Member Posts: 31 Arc User
    The Discovery Operations Pack, with four new ships, new bridge officers, a combat tardigrade and more, is coming very soon to Star Trek Online on PC!

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11084823

    Boffs are once per account, I'm sure that's an error, I mean seriously guys, that's all everyone is talking about, and the talk is not good.
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    questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,408 Arc User
    Even if i had been a fan of the discovery content, i would not have been tempted by this pack.
    Content is simply far too limited for the cost, even with the 30% discount.
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    redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    I like that new Walker skin. I'm a fan of the TMP/WoK inspired ships.

    Not gonna drop $120/$84 for a skin though. I don't suppose you would be willing to sell the Walker appearance separately?
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    bridgernbridgern Member Posts: 709 Arc User
    What happened to "the account is the player," there is too much "Once per Account" in this pack.
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    drakan87fdrakan87f Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    even if i`m not happy with the no-romulan-ships-thing, i'm really glad that these new ships are really trek-looking….not like the flying toiletsets from the miracleworker-pack.
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    aelwulf1aelwulf1 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    We're announcing today that this bundle will be available at 30% off at launch, for a limited time. That's a reduced price of 8400 Zen. Enjoy, Captains!

    This is what it should've been to begin with. So a 'launch sale' should be closer to 6000 Zen. And there's still no mention of the 'per character' issues being fixed first.

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    aelwulf1aelwulf1 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    saber1973a wrote: »
    Actually Gamma EVA suit is once per toon - you just need to claim the whole Gamma pack on other toons, and it will drop the suit to your inventory.
    Except you can't, because apparently the transaction is always in progress and can't be cancelled or stopped.

    I just claimed the suit on all mine a day or two ago so was working then.
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    crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,115 Arc User
    There's nothing particularly new/special Fed side. Wow a special ship skin, a costume piece and a ONCE ONLY ON ONE CHARACTER BOFF at that price? Pass completely. There some Asian mcrotransaction models that won't work in the West - and this pack makes full use of them.
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    dirlettiadirlettia Member Posts: 1,632 Arc User
    I am wondering when we get the stats if these ships are all going to end up as scaling ships. May explain some things :shrug:

    Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
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    iamynaughtiamynaught Member Posts: 1,285 Arc User
    dirlettia wrote: »
    I am wondering when we get the stats if these ships are all going to end up as scaling ships. May explain some things :shrug:

    Why would them potentially being scaling ships affect the price? Scaling ships is just the next gimmick in a long line of gimmicks. Just like prior to this it was ships with the Wingman mechanic. So on and so forth. The player base has been conditioned that top of the line, endgame ships cost $30. If they are planning on raising that price due to these ships potentially being scaling, they'd better be prepared for some major fallout.

    First, a lot of players don't tend to be MAJOR altaholics. A couple, sure, but I think it's safe to say that a majority of players don't like to level. So making scaling ships, while very nice, means that some players will never use the scaling function as they may never make a new alt.

    Second, if they truly want to make them scaling ships, (and in a way, encourage alts), they shot themselves in the foot making so many of the items in this pack 1 per account instead of one per character.

    Third, I think we've reached the top of the mountain as far as price for ships go at $30. There were a LOT of complaints when T6's were introduced. Not just that players felt their previous investment in T5's was wasted, but at the increase in price. Expect more of that if they do indeed try to raise prices again.

    I get that Cryptic is a business and they need to make money. But there is a tipping point where if you start charging too much, you lose more money from customers leaving your product than the increased prices bring in.

    I fully expect Cryptic to add more to this pack. And I bet they KNOW exactly what items they will be adding. They have to be holding things back in case the masses aren't satisfied with the initial offering. That way, when they do add things, it makes it seem like they listened and can be reasonable, despite the additions already being planned for inclusion in the first place.

    Maybe they'll "allow" the BOff's and pet to be account wide. There could be another ship or two added to each side. But even then, it's simply too expensive a bundle for what it has, compared to prior packs. A lower starting price absolutely would have to happen with the bundle as it stands right now before I'd even consider getting it. And I'm talking about half what they are currently wanting for it.
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