•Which existing TFOs would you consider yourself ‘unlucky’ to be placed in, and why?
1. Hive Onslaught. This queue breaks with virtually every update, and I'm quite done getting lanced from more than 10km away, or while practically glued to the queen's octohedron. If you can't figure out how to fix this thing permanently, get rid of it or rebuild it from scratch. The same goes for any queues others have mentioned with long-standing, recurring necrobugs. Fix them, or stop wasting everyone's time with this idea.
2. Every Borg ground queue. Between the cheap mechanics and the old-school 'penalty box' punishment for respawning, rather than forcing a team mate to get themselved killed trying to rez you, these are obsolete crud. Rework them in accordance with the other more modern queues' respawn mechanics.
3. Both Tholian ground queues. Same penalty box mentality, but the mechanics aren't as cheap. Also, they need to lock out anyone who doesn't have an environmental suit equipped, and the suits need to auto-engage upon entering a hostile environment. Having to turn it on, even after it's equipped, is a piece of pointless 'realism' that's not needed.
Works for SWTOR too, they've always had all flashpoints (TFOs) selected by default. If you want to do a specific flashpoint, you un-select the others. I remember the angst about the level cap increase to 65 but I think we all survived.
STO will survive this.
LOL, that's not even remotely comparable. SWTOR's space missions are single-player only and, as such, aren't even on the queueable content, so there's no problem there with people queueing for random and ending up in an Archenar Interception instead of an Hammer Station.
Even the PvP queues are different, as they should be, because the day they think about joining them together? All hell is gonna break loose.
And of course if you want to do a specific FP/Uprising you unselect the others, but that has got nothing to do with the topic of this thread, which is Random Task Force Operations. Key word: random. You unselect even one FP? No random for you, sir.
We already can queue for whatever STF we want to do and there's no problem there, except for the fact that some are pretty much impossible to do unless you go with a full group already.
If the goal of this all charade is to make people play content that never gets played, then they need to work on that content, not "invent" a "new" system - again, not new at all - just so they can say "see? see? we gave you a new toy but you don't use it!" when the data analysis will show exactly how much excited players are about it, then they'd better spend the time to make a worthwile new season.
I am reading by one of the statements from Borticus that they need actual players playing these missions if they want a shot at "fixing" them. I guess if people practically never play a particular task force, they for example can't figure out fair rewards for them, because they don't know how long people actually need for it. And if there are bugs that they don't encounter in internal playtests, they need players playing the missions to flush them out. But that can never happen if it's not getting played.
(Emphasis mine.)
Okay, but your reasoning here is fundamentally flawed as Bort's reply clearly showed that they haven't read the bug reports for pves we've made this far. Or he'd know that Azure Nebula is severely bugged and have been for a very, very long time. It's a bug that's been reported ad nauseam.
Same with Undine Infiltrator.
And another I was reminded of today, the Fire Team in Brotherhood of the Sword is bugged in about one out of three runs so you either cannot interact with them or they get stuck on their way out. Both bugs causes autofail on Elite. This is another one that's been around for ages, have been reported at length. Have never been fixed or even acknowledged and going by Bort's comment in this thread, no one ever bothered reading those bug reports.
And now they're trying to convince us they will?
Sure Jan. Read the damn reports that's been made in the last couple of years and fix those bugs, then we can talk. Until then I see no further reason to make bug reports that are clearly just ignored.
My guess the problem with the Cryptic bug report system is that it's too many bug reports and it becomes impossible to sort them through. The same bug might get reported 200 times, but the important report that has the useful information to replicate and eventually find it gets lost in the mass. And there is no way for the player to follow up on a bug report, or a dev or QA tester to request additional information. And of course, devs and QA will also file their own bug reports on a wide variety of things they observed, and sorting through that and prioritizing it will take time.
In my personal experience, crashes often tend to be the easiest report to track, especially if you have a way to collect a mini-dump from the system. That can basically tell you the exact line in your code where the crash happened, and then it is often relatively evident why a crash happened. Though sometimes just fixing that piece of code is not sufficient to really get rid the real source of the bug. (Typically, you might encounter a spot where someone forgot to check for a null-pointer, leading to a memory access violation. But sometimes the problem isn't just the fact that the null-pointer wasn't checked for, but that it occurs at all, and then you have to backtrack where it came from. And sometimes the problem isn't a null-pointer, but an object was deleted already, and then you have to figure out where and why it was deleted and why someone was still holding a pointer to it.)
But if you don't have a mini-dump and you don't have a crash, you need very good replication steps to figure out what exactly leads to the observed issue. And even professionals and people familiar with the software can fail to notice all the critical steps.
So my guess is that the bug report system can help, but not always, and sometimes it is really better to ask for targeted feedback.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Works for SWTOR too, they've always had all flashpoints (TFOs) selected by default. If you want to do a specific flashpoint, you un-select the others. I remember the angst about the level cap increase to 65 but I think we all survived.
STO will survive this.
LOL, that's not even remotely comparable. SWTOR's space missions are single-player only and, as such, aren't even on the queueable content, so there's no problem there with people queueing for random and ending up in an Archenar Interception instead of an Hammer Station.
Even the PvP queues are different, as they should be, because the day they think about joining them together? All hell is gonna break loose.
And of course if you want to do a specific FP/Uprising you unselect the others, but that has got nothing to do with the topic of this thread, which is Random Task Force Operations. Key word: random. You unselect even one FP? No random for you, sir.
We already can queue for whatever STF we want to do and there's no problem there, except for the fact that some are pretty much impossible to do unless you go with a full group already.
If the goal of this all charade is to make people play content that never gets played, then they need to work on that content, not "invent" a "new" system - again, not new at all - just so they can say "see? see? we gave you a new toy but you don't use it!" when the data analysis will show exactly how much excited players are about it, then they'd better spend the time to make a worthwile new season.
I am reading by one of the statements from Borticus that they need actual players playing these missions if they want a shot at "fixing" them. I guess if people practically never play a particular task force, they for example can't figure out fair rewards for them, because they don't know how long people actually need for it. And if there are bugs that they don't encounter in internal playtests, they need players playing the missions to flush them out. But that can never happen if it's not getting played.
(Emphasis mine.)
Okay, but your reasoning here is fundamentally flawed as Bort's reply clearly showed that they haven't read the bug reports for pves we've made this far. Or he'd know that Azure Nebula is severely bugged and have been for a very, very long time. It's a bug that's been reported ad nauseam.
Same with Undine Infiltrator.
And another I was reminded of today, the Fire Team in Brotherhood of the Sword is bugged in about one out of three runs so you either cannot interact with them or they get stuck on their way out. Both bugs causes autofail on Elite. This is another one that's been around for ages, have been reported at length. Have never been fixed or even acknowledged and going by Bort's comment in this thread, no one ever bothered reading those bug reports.
And now they're trying to convince us they will?
Sure Jan. Read the damn reports that's been made in the last couple of years and fix those bugs, then we can talk. Until then I see no further reason to make bug reports that are clearly just ignored.
My guess the problem with the Cryptic bug report system is that it's too many bug reports and it becomes impossible to sort them through. The same bug might get reported 200 times, but the important report that has the useful information to replicate and eventually find it gets lost in the mass. And there is no way for the player to follow up on a bug report, or a dev or QA tester to request additional information. And of course, devs and QA will also file their own bug reports on a wide variety of things they observed, and sorting through that and prioritizing it will take time.
In my personal experience, crashes often tend to be the easiest report to track, especially if you have a way to collect a mini-dump from the system. That can basically tell you the exact line in your code where the crash happened, and then it is often relatively evident why a crash happened. Though sometimes just fixing that piece of code is not sufficient to really get rid the real source of the bug. (Typically, you might encounter a spot where someone forgot to check for a null-pointer, leading to a memory access violation. But sometimes the problem isn't just the fact that the null-pointer wasn't checked for, but that it occurs at all, and then you have to backtrack where it came from. And sometimes the problem isn't a null-pointer, but an object was deleted already, and then you have to figure out where and why it was deleted and why someone was still holding a pointer to it.)
But if you don't have a mini-dump and you don't have a crash, you need very good replication steps to figure out what exactly leads to the observed issue. And even professionals and people familiar with the software can fail to notice all the critical steps.
So my guess is that the bug report system can help, but not always, and sometimes it is really better to ask for targeted feedback.
Its more that just what you wrote as the QA department is really terrible. I used to work in QA for another space MMO game and I am constantly shocked by the basic things STO QA miss. Many of the bugs that make it live in Star Trek should have been picked up on the most basic of testing or most basic of check lists. Sometimes its clear things haven't been tested at all and worse people have posted full detailed bug reports both in the correct feedback tread and via the bug reporting system. Yet even if the devs have plenty of warning from tribble often the bug will still be around 6+ months later on live.
Due to all the dev sarcastic comments I have given up given up with detailed bug reports. I have done precisely what the devs want and they just ignored it then gave similar sarcastic comments.
They just do not care or they have a massively flawed system. Take the Fleet Colony World as one example which is now 1 year old. 1 year later none of the mines which I want to use have a working proc or even list what the proc does. That is something the most basic of QA testing should have caught. Did no one think to look at the new items? Just a quick read down the list shows the proc is missing. Full detailed bug reports have been given so that's not an excuse.
Which existing TFOs do you hope see more play time under this system, and why?
Brotherhood of the Sword
Bug Hunt
Colony Invasion
Battle of Procyon V
Dranuur Gauntlet
Herald Sphere
Infected: Manus
Miner Instabilities
Storming the Spire
Undine Assault
Gravity Kills
All under the category of fun and infrequently played ATM.
Which existing TFOs would you consider yourself ‘unlucky’ to be placed in, and why?
Crystalline Catastrophe (what I'm trying to avoid in random queuing)
Federation Fleet Alert (ditto)
Infected: The Conduit
Khitomer Vortex
Red Alert: Borg
Red Alert: Tholian
Cure Applied (tedious)
when you encourage grinding/farming mindsets, your majority of players become grinder/farmers, and they WILL find the easiest route to rewards, and most of the time, that means the bulk of your work will go unplayed, and unappreciated if it is not the easiest route to the most rewards in the shortest time.
Games without resource systems can also have severe problems with multiplayer population distributions (with large amounts of content going unplayed) because population-average favorites set up an original pattern of domination which can introduce a feedback loop where players then aggregate to those imbalances. The behavioral concept is called autocorrelation, its very strong in human groups. Even curated playlist systems in AAA games with a fraction of the offerings STO has can still find itself with barely played or simply dead options. Now compare that to STO's system; with a relatively small population and individual queue listings for each TFO and difficulty option, and it should not be a surprise at all that there are severe imbalances. We're dealing with a common problem and its worst case scenario (a vast and expanding number of population sinks and a small source.)
Resource optimization in STO only contributes to the pattern of favoritism. It categorically doesn't explain why most of the queues are dead. Remove resource considerations and the next factor down the line (ex. gameplay preference) will unbalance the system. This is important because recognizing that there are multiple levels of favoritism that can each unbalance a multiplayer system gives some hope to the random queue. It's using resources and the prospect of "something different" to encourage players to not exercise their own preference but to volunteer for a needs-based assignment or random roll (with a decent chance of success given the use of additive effects rather than one motivating factor to contravene the primary motivation to grind.) Ie. the ideal behavior for population management (but is completely unnatural to human players.) That's not an option for games without RPG resource/XP elements (who can only deal with the problem at one level.)
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Just read Kael's OP and this is supposed to come out with AoD? So, basically the foundation of the system is already done given that that expansion will be coming in two to two and a half months at the very most. Maybe as little as one.
And you're only now, this late, asking for feedback? And it never once in development occurred to you that there's be a serious problem with people not being able to know if they should go ground spec or space spec?
Guys, given that they have less than two months I doubt we're going to see anything workable about being able to have two specs - one for ground and one for space - at the same time, at launch. Not if they want to do even basic testing of it first.
Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
Finally! This is a very good idea! And the people who want to play their usual queues can still do that, and I for one am looking forward to hopefully also play older and usually empty queues just by pure chance
Right now, it looks like the odds (based upon the rewards) should be around Common (Default) Uncommon (1:2) Rare (1:5) Very Rare (1:7) Ultra Rare (1:10) and Epic (1:20)
To address the RNG wonky ness, (I am sure that everyone has watched a video or a 500 phoenix box opening where the guy doesn’t get any epic and like two or three Ultra Rare) I think they need to introduce a mechanism there the player is guaranteed a win if the odds are exceeded they will win the prize
How this works
Each play though all the odds for all items are reduced by one, unless it wins, then the odds are reset, this will at the very least a guarantee a player wins once within the odds. Think of it like the Monty Hall problem, each time you don’t win the odds go up that the next door will have the grand prize.
On to the ground, vs space traits
Yeah either make this and either/or start unifying the, Starship Traits, Spaceship Reputation, Ground Reputation and Active Reputation into two major branches of ground and space. For space you can have 15 slots, and for ground you can have 10. Or break the Active Reputation into ground and space.
At the very least the option to exclude Ground PvE or Space PvE should be available. Otherwise, I'll probably avoid random queues.
Also, please Separate Ground and Space Active Reputation powers. It made some sense when there were very few options, but now I could fill 5 of each with more to spare.
After reading the ENTIRE blog, it basically just says that you are grouping some STFs that don't get played together and slapping a new name on it and giving out the same rewards as if you just played it normally and calling it a new system......
I thought the devs couldn't get lazier....but this is just laughable. Glad I'm going to pass on it. And I am glad it's not forced on us.
I like the idea. Not everyone is going to agree, but if we can get 50% of the players to agree, then the queues could really fill up nicely. I, for one, am not picky about whether it's space or ground. This way, I'll have to be ready for ANYTHING. Are we skilled enough to do that? Bring it on!
And you're only now, this late, asking for feedback? And it never once in development occurred to you that there's be a serious problem with people not being able to know if they should go ground spec or space spec?
They're asking for feedback on what TFO's to include in their multiplayer playlist, not permission to change the game.
And as mentioned before: if for normal and advanced ground queues you need to change your specialization in order to participate at a reasonably competitive level, you probably need to work your build so the difference in specs no longer decides whether you're above or below threshold. By definition, you're on the line so look at your build in other areas such as equipment and module choice (which would help in any case survive the trials of the dreaded featured episode which blindside players with a fairly consistent mix of ground/space combat.)
In looking even at my most specialized space builds, I don't see any problem with playing ground queues through the random queue. Elite: maybe more of an issue (it's more likely players will be on the line at the highest difficulty levels, remaining improvements more constrained) but that's not included with this system.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
When instanced content was released in this game, it already had a name: Special Task Forces. The go-to term for them was STF.
I never called them 'queues', though I do get how people would've jumped to that conclusion given how you'd plastered that name in your UI.
But TFOs? Task Force Operations? For shame, just go back to Special Task Force (it's practically a synonym, why change?) and stop bludgeoning us with inconsistent nomenclature.
Probably reserving that STF abbreviation for a tie in with a future Star Trek Series per CBS' directive.
You know like Star Trek: Frontiers or Star Trek: Federation or some such nonsense.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Problems with the queues and why they are not played in no particular order
1. Bugs
2. Artificial time gates
3. Poor reward to time ratio
4. Once a reputation is completed there's no further need for those marks
5. Dilithium is the most relevant currency in STO. We use it to purchase Zen, spend it on Fleet Holdings, use it to purchase reputation/fleet gear, use it for upgrades (without access to ultimate or phoenix tokens) . So what happens when this currency is required for all those things ? Players find the most profitable and time efficient way of earning the glowing pink rocks and those missions that are not time efficient are simply ignored.
So this rebranding doesn't actually address any of the above issues it just creates a new one with the inability to change spec's when thrown into a random mission.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
And as mentioned before: if for normal and advanced ground queues you need to change your specialization in order to participate at a reasonably competitive level, you probably need to work your build so the difference in specs no longer decides whether you're above or below threshold. By definition, you're on the line so look at your build in other areas such as equipment and module choice (which would help in any case survive the trials of the dreaded featured episode which blindside players with a fairly consistent mix of ground/space combat.)
Mate, if you had read ANYTHING I'd said you'd already know I'm not talking about myself. I've clearly stated, repeatedly, that I'm not touching this because I HATE most space queues. No amount of rewards is going to affect that. They're a lot of idiot pewpew with no tactic to them at all. Thanks but no, if I want to just blow things up I'll go run the Argala patrol.
But it seems you sense of superiority and general condescension is negatively influencing your reading comprehension. Or maybe you just need some basic reading classes, idk.
But it's nice to see that there are still players in this game who gives TRIBBLE all about new players and who loves to be condescending TRIBBLE when issues that will affects new players negatively is brought up. Stay classy mate, no wonder this game is near dead most of the time with this attitude from the player base.
Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
Mate, if you had read ANYTHING I'd said you'd already know I'm not talking about myself. I'm not touching this because I HATE most space queues. No amount of rewards is going to affect that. They're a lot of idiot pewpew with no tactic to them at all. Thanks but no, if I want to just blow things up I'll go run the Argala patrol.
…..
issues that will affects new players negatively is brought up.
How many new players do you imagine share your views of space combat?
I am bored doing older content over and over again, bored seeing each month new Pokemon ships getting released, bored of new gear, there is just too many already for crying out loud, am bored of grind events that take weeks to complete, am pretty bored with STO since Dilithium Rising,.. erhm I ment Delta Rising.
I just wish to see each half year more PLAYABLE content, a set of ground and space PvE maps(They don't need to be story line linked every freaking time!) not just 1 or 2, more episodes on a yearly basis and possibly something for fleets like 10 man fleet maps to raid in which rewards something other than the Colony Grind World where you get provisions as a reward and a small amount of fleet marks, really? I still have no clue why there are fleets in STO other than grind and farm resources to fill fleet holdings to the max tier just to unlock fleet stores which then you have to use resources again to obtain something and even then you don't need a fleet for it, just get map invited to some other fleet's holding and you can still buy items without the entire horrendous time consuming effort to get a fleet holding maxed out for your fleet.
But every year you sadly disappoint me and probably many others that don't play anymore.
Less new gear, less new ships, less grind features and more playable content in terms of episodes and PvE ground/space maps, don't have to be linked to a story line, just random occurrences to deal with!
PvP you can just ignore, it is a dead mess already for years.
I am not a fan of rng with this new "tfo" but maybe others will.
Have you longed for a greater sense of variety in your daily dose of star trek online group content?
Group content is means to an end - I do particular queues because they reward the marks that I need to complete a certain goal - usually getting a piece from the reputation equipment. Certain marks have a somewhat limited number of queues that award them. And this is where I could imagine longing for a greater sense of variety.
Whenever my focus shifted to getting fleet marks and dilithium, I never felt a lack of variety - there are many ways to get those.
Do you ever just want to log into the game and play, without feeling picky about what it is?
Not really, no - I want to log into the game and make some progress towards finalizing any of the dozen space/ground builds I have under construction. Buying ships and traits, obtaining and upgrading equipment... Making tiny steps towards checking off my bucket list of things I want to do in STO. I imagine some time in the future, when I have all the ships I want, all equip at gold mk XV, I will just go and fly them for fun, enjoying the various builds... But the number of things to get and try out is growing, so maybe that time will never even come.
Have you ever wanted to participate in a forgotten piece of older content, but found the prospect of forming a team cumbersome, if not downright impossible?
Wait... Yes! I have! I always wanted to play Big Dig or Breaking the Planet (I only participated in it once many years ago when NPC Dahar Masters with their Disruptor Pulswaves could wipe your entire team with one shot)! But... Random TFOs will only be for 5-man queues? Oh... Okay... Nevermind then... It's funny though, because I wouldn't describe any of those as "forgotten"... The reason some queues are dead is not that people "forgot" - on the contrary, it's because they remember. They remember that "oh that's the queue that's bugged", "oh, that's the queue where noobs don't know what to do", "oh, that's the queue that's too long and gives crappy rewards", "oh, that's the queue that's boring and repetitive"...
> @njodeath#7166 said:
> azrael605 wrote: »
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> > @njodeath#7166 said:
> > angrytarg wrote: »
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> > I'm sorry, but if the game is work to you that you don't enjoy it is really not Cryptic's fault. Nobody forces you to complete all these "chores" every day.
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> > It is WORK to do dailies to get all the stuff you need to help out your fleet and get all the stuff to make your toons better. I can't afford to buy zen for dil so I have to work for it. I would love to explore all the content but if I don't do these CHORES I won't be able to get all the things I need. Dil, Ec, Marks, Contraband, Event Vouchers, Colony Provisions etc. doesn't just grow on trees. You have to WORK for it. I guess I could try doing TFO's to get 8000 dil per toon per day but I wouldnt have all the other things I need and I think it would take longer than 8 hours. Everyone has their own playstyle. I like finishing all my Admirality campaigns. I like finishing all my Reputations. I like finishing all my R&D schools. I like finishing all my Doff ranks. I like maxing out my fleet. I like getting accolades. On and on. But it all requires WORK.
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> Rofl, man I make thousands of dollars worth of Dillzen per year, and I don't do jack for 'work" in STO, if making Dill for zen is work, your doing it wrong.
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> So I take it you haven't finished any Adnirality campaigns and your R&D ranks are at level 1 your playing with MK1 gear and so on. If you are maxed out which I assume you are then you had to do the work. I got 3 new delta recruits and 2 new Gamma recruits I need everything and I can't get it in a TFO. My fleet needs Dil. I need Dil and ALL the other things I listed. It's not about dil/zen. And as I pointed out before EVERYONE has different playstyles there is no right or wrong way. I'm a farmer/grinder thats what I do and I like it. I guess you didn't read the original post that angrytarg replied to in the first place you might have got the context.
I understood the context, and I have 20 characters, 4 Deltas, 1 Temporal, 1 Gamma, multiple characters have unfinished Rep & Admiralties, none have all R&D to level 15. I have a solo/storage fleet Fed side, which I have at the following, SB T3, RL T2, SP T2, DM T2, all other holdings except Colony at T1, all on my own, not even any temp invites for people to dump extra marks. Over on KDF side my characters are all in a fleet I do not own or have any power over, I donate millions of FC worth of resources to the fleet and Armada every month, and have temporarily fleet hopped to dump marks on many occassions. I have also purchased over 20 Lockbox/Lobi ships (avg spent, 175 million EC) without spending any real money, using crafting & Dillzen keys. This doesn't include the ones I got before I learned how to do that. The context you are missing is that whatever I do I am not "working", I am enjoying myself. If I'm not enjoying myself I don't do it. I've never enjoyed work, I don't now, I have no viable choice not to, so I do it without complaint. No way though am I going to work in my games.
Lets just substitute the word WORK for "Game Play Time" then you might start to get it. The point of this thread is what would it take to revive dead TFO's. It takes me 8 hours of "Game Play Time" to do my dailies. I assume you know what those are. My daily fleet mark is UAA, it takes roughly 10 min the rewards are worth it to me to play it. If you get a team that doesn't know the map you lose about 100 Fleet marks. Hence the reward wouldn't be worth it. Might as well do a CCA in 2 min. I just am asking for a filter for Random/Manual so they don't ruin a run. Obviously you know how much "Game Play Time" it takes to build a fleet with all those wonderful stats you posted above. So if the reward to "Game Play Time" ratio isn't worth it you can count me out. It just sucks that I'm gonna have to do my fleet mark daily as a CCA now cause the randoms will wreck my UAA run.
> @njodeath#7166 said:
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> Lets just substitute the word WORK for "Game Play Time" then you might start to get it. The point of this thread is what would it take to revive dead TFO's. It takes me 8 hours of "Game Play Time" to do my dailies. I assume you know what those are. My daily fleet mark is UAA, it takes roughly 10 min the rewards are worth it to me to play it. If you get a team that doesn't know the map you lose about 100 Fleet marks. Hence the reward wouldn't be worth it. Might as well do a CCA in 2 min. I just am asking for a filter for Random/Manual so they don't ruin a run. Obviously you know how much "Game Play Time" it takes to build a fleet with all those wonderful stats you posted above. So if the reward to "Game Play Time" ratio isn't worth it you can count me out. It just sucks that I'm gonna have to do my fleet mark daily as a CCA now cause the randoms will wreck my UAA run.
I don't do "dailies" I do what I feel like when I feel like it. This idea of regimenting the activities I undertake in game to a schedule is distasteful to me. I also don't care about the occassional failed queue, sometimes it happens. I don't do pre-made teams, I don't afk MIA, I am not worried about all "game play time reward ratio" nor do I want to. I do not work in STO, I do what I feel like. I achieve what I do without putting pressure on myself. The closest I get is prioritizing KDF & Ferengi admiralty.
To get to the actual subject of the thread. I am very much in support of the random TFO, I very much enjoy it in Neverwinter, and win or lose if I get to play some of my most favorite queues more I'm in, and I'm not afraid to drop into a queue I'm unfamiliar with. I pay attention to briefings and objectives and I'm not a leech or AFK.
That's awesome I'm glad you like playing your style. I love playing my style. Thats the best part of the game you can do what you want. Hopefully the change wont affect my style. Meaning my TFO gets filled with Randoms that "don't care about the occassional failed queue" If it does theres not alot I can do but adapt my style.
Some pretty good points everybody is making here. Lets not forget the old STF system. With a string of missions people drop out because it takes forever and the rest of you will feel it. (this system was tried already and failed)
They released so much content so you can make specific builds and be prepared for the mission. This may no longer be possible unless they make changes to how we activate traits, gear, and abilities.. etc
Some people don't like all of the content and will be forced to deal with it. At first the pay out will be nice but it will be reduced or made very difficult to get the higher level rewards. (similar to lock box dice)
Will the lock out timer still be in affect? People are going to drop out of missions a lot!
How much people resort to flat out lying in the pursuit of stirring angst against a new feature is staggering. And on page 7 people still post questions the announcement blog answers, just to call DOOM if 'x or y is no more!'
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
How much people resort to flat out lying in the pursuit of stirring angst against a new feature is staggering. And on page 7 people still post questions the announcement blog answers, just to call DOOM if 'x or y is no more!'
While I agree that some posts may be getting a bit off topic, this is one of many recent threads where many of the posts while not necessarily giving the exact feedback the OP is looking for do add some unique input and insight and are directly related in their own way.
I hope it continues, as there have been some very well worded and often very passionate and honest posts that often mirror my own thoughts, and they're directly going to the guy in charge in a respectful way.
> @protoneous said: > angrytarg wrote: » > > How much people resort to flat out lying in the pursuit of stirring angst against a new feature is staggering. And on page 7 people still post questions the announcement blog answers, just to call DOOM if 'x or y is no more!' > > > > While I agree that some posts may be getting a bit off topic, this is one of many recent threads where many of the posts while not necessarily giving the exact feedback the OP is looking for do add some unique input and insight and are directly related in their own way. > > I hope it continues, as there have been some very well worded and often very passionate and honest posts that often mirror my own thoughts, and they're directly going to the guy in charge in a respectful way.
And I am not referring to that, although much is based on speculation. I'm referring to.posts claiming the "normal" way of queuing will go away when the blog itself says you can still manually queue and the likes.
Essentially everything stays the same, a new feature is added on top not replacing anything.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Comments
2. Every Borg ground queue. Between the cheap mechanics and the old-school 'penalty box' punishment for respawning, rather than forcing a team mate to get themselved killed trying to rez you, these are obsolete crud. Rework them in accordance with the other more modern queues' respawn mechanics.
3. Both Tholian ground queues. Same penalty box mentality, but the mechanics aren't as cheap. Also, they need to lock out anyone who doesn't have an environmental suit equipped, and the suits need to auto-engage upon entering a hostile environment. Having to turn it on, even after it's equipped, is a piece of pointless 'realism' that's not needed.
Looking forward to it! ^^
My guess the problem with the Cryptic bug report system is that it's too many bug reports and it becomes impossible to sort them through. The same bug might get reported 200 times, but the important report that has the useful information to replicate and eventually find it gets lost in the mass. And there is no way for the player to follow up on a bug report, or a dev or QA tester to request additional information. And of course, devs and QA will also file their own bug reports on a wide variety of things they observed, and sorting through that and prioritizing it will take time.
In my personal experience, crashes often tend to be the easiest report to track, especially if you have a way to collect a mini-dump from the system. That can basically tell you the exact line in your code where the crash happened, and then it is often relatively evident why a crash happened. Though sometimes just fixing that piece of code is not sufficient to really get rid the real source of the bug. (Typically, you might encounter a spot where someone forgot to check for a null-pointer, leading to a memory access violation. But sometimes the problem isn't just the fact that the null-pointer wasn't checked for, but that it occurs at all, and then you have to backtrack where it came from. And sometimes the problem isn't a null-pointer, but an object was deleted already, and then you have to figure out where and why it was deleted and why someone was still holding a pointer to it.)
But if you don't have a mini-dump and you don't have a crash, you need very good replication steps to figure out what exactly leads to the observed issue. And even professionals and people familiar with the software can fail to notice all the critical steps.
So my guess is that the bug report system can help, but not always, and sometimes it is really better to ask for targeted feedback.
Due to all the dev sarcastic comments I have given up given up with detailed bug reports. I have done precisely what the devs want and they just ignored it then gave similar sarcastic comments.
They just do not care or they have a massively flawed system. Take the Fleet Colony World as one example which is now 1 year old. 1 year later none of the mines which I want to use have a working proc or even list what the proc does. That is something the most basic of QA testing should have caught. Did no one think to look at the new items? Just a quick read down the list shows the proc is missing. Full detailed bug reports have been given so that's not an excuse.
- Brotherhood of the Sword
- Bug Hunt
- Colony Invasion
- Battle of Procyon V
- Dranuur Gauntlet
- Herald Sphere
- Infected: Manus
- Miner Instabilities
- Storming the Spire
- Undine Assault
- Gravity Kills
All under the category of fun and infrequently played ATM.Games without resource systems can also have severe problems with multiplayer population distributions (with large amounts of content going unplayed) because population-average favorites set up an original pattern of domination which can introduce a feedback loop where players then aggregate to those imbalances. The behavioral concept is called autocorrelation, its very strong in human groups. Even curated playlist systems in AAA games with a fraction of the offerings STO has can still find itself with barely played or simply dead options. Now compare that to STO's system; with a relatively small population and individual queue listings for each TFO and difficulty option, and it should not be a surprise at all that there are severe imbalances. We're dealing with a common problem and its worst case scenario (a vast and expanding number of population sinks and a small source.)
Resource optimization in STO only contributes to the pattern of favoritism. It categorically doesn't explain why most of the queues are dead. Remove resource considerations and the next factor down the line (ex. gameplay preference) will unbalance the system. This is important because recognizing that there are multiple levels of favoritism that can each unbalance a multiplayer system gives some hope to the random queue. It's using resources and the prospect of "something different" to encourage players to not exercise their own preference but to volunteer for a needs-based assignment or random roll (with a decent chance of success given the use of additive effects rather than one motivating factor to contravene the primary motivation to grind.) Ie. the ideal behavior for population management (but is completely unnatural to human players.) That's not an option for games without RPG resource/XP elements (who can only deal with the problem at one level.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
And you're only now, this late, asking for feedback? And it never once in development occurred to you that there's be a serious problem with people not being able to know if they should go ground spec or space spec?
Guys, given that they have less than two months I doubt we're going to see anything workable about being able to have two specs - one for ground and one for space - at the same time, at launch. Not if they want to do even basic testing of it first.
Right now, it looks like the odds (based upon the rewards) should be around Common (Default) Uncommon (1:2) Rare (1:5) Very Rare (1:7) Ultra Rare (1:10) and Epic (1:20)
To address the RNG wonky ness, (I am sure that everyone has watched a video or a 500 phoenix box opening where the guy doesn’t get any epic and like two or three Ultra Rare) I think they need to introduce a mechanism there the player is guaranteed a win if the odds are exceeded they will win the prize
How this works
Each play though all the odds for all items are reduced by one, unless it wins, then the odds are reset, this will at the very least a guarantee a player wins once within the odds. Think of it like the Monty Hall problem, each time you don’t win the odds go up that the next door will have the grand prize.
On to the ground, vs space traits
Yeah either make this and either/or start unifying the, Starship Traits, Spaceship Reputation, Ground Reputation and Active Reputation into two major branches of ground and space. For space you can have 15 slots, and for ground you can have 10. Or break the Active Reputation into ground and space.
Quality of Life Improvements for the Mission Journal
Enhancement for the Duty Office Assignments
Enhancement for Admiralty Missions
Enhancement for Accolades and Reward
Enhancement Bridge Officers
Also, please Separate Ground and Space Active Reputation powers. It made some sense when there were very few options, but now I could fill 5 of each with more to spare.
I thought the devs couldn't get lazier....but this is just laughable. Glad I'm going to pass on it. And I am glad it's not forced on us.
They're asking for feedback on what TFO's to include in their multiplayer playlist, not permission to change the game.
And as mentioned before: if for normal and advanced ground queues you need to change your specialization in order to participate at a reasonably competitive level, you probably need to work your build so the difference in specs no longer decides whether you're above or below threshold. By definition, you're on the line so look at your build in other areas such as equipment and module choice (which would help in any case survive the trials of the dreaded featured episode which blindside players with a fairly consistent mix of ground/space combat.)
In looking even at my most specialized space builds, I don't see any problem with playing ground queues through the random queue. Elite: maybe more of an issue (it's more likely players will be on the line at the highest difficulty levels, remaining improvements more constrained) but that's not included with this system.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
When instanced content was released in this game, it already had a name: Special Task Forces. The go-to term for them was STF.
I never called them 'queues', though I do get how people would've jumped to that conclusion given how you'd plastered that name in your UI.
But TFOs? Task Force Operations? For shame, just go back to Special Task Force (it's practically a synonym, why change?) and stop bludgeoning us with inconsistent nomenclature.
You know like Star Trek: Frontiers or Star Trek: Federation or some such nonsense.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
1. Bugs
2. Artificial time gates
3. Poor reward to time ratio
4. Once a reputation is completed there's no further need for those marks
5. Dilithium is the most relevant currency in STO. We use it to purchase Zen, spend it on Fleet Holdings, use it to purchase reputation/fleet gear, use it for upgrades (without access to ultimate or phoenix tokens) . So what happens when this currency is required for all those things ? Players find the most profitable and time efficient way of earning the glowing pink rocks and those missions that are not time efficient are simply ignored.
So this rebranding doesn't actually address any of the above issues it just creates a new one with the inability to change spec's when thrown into a random mission.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
Mate, if you had read ANYTHING I'd said you'd already know I'm not talking about myself. I've clearly stated, repeatedly, that I'm not touching this because I HATE most space queues. No amount of rewards is going to affect that. They're a lot of idiot pewpew with no tactic to them at all. Thanks but no, if I want to just blow things up I'll go run the Argala patrol.
But it seems you sense of superiority and general condescension is negatively influencing your reading comprehension. Or maybe you just need some basic reading classes, idk.
But it's nice to see that there are still players in this game who gives TRIBBLE all about new players and who loves to be condescending TRIBBLE when issues that will affects new players negatively is brought up. Stay classy mate, no wonder this game is near dead most of the time with this attitude from the player base.
My character Tsin'xing
I just wish to see each half year more PLAYABLE content, a set of ground and space PvE maps(They don't need to be story line linked every freaking time!) not just 1 or 2, more episodes on a yearly basis and possibly something for fleets like 10 man fleet maps to raid in which rewards something other than the Colony Grind World where you get provisions as a reward and a small amount of fleet marks, really? I still have no clue why there are fleets in STO other than grind and farm resources to fill fleet holdings to the max tier just to unlock fleet stores which then you have to use resources again to obtain something and even then you don't need a fleet for it, just get map invited to some other fleet's holding and you can still buy items without the entire horrendous time consuming effort to get a fleet holding maxed out for your fleet.
But every year you sadly disappoint me and probably many others that don't play anymore.
Less new gear, less new ships, less grind features and more playable content in terms of episodes and PvE ground/space maps, don't have to be linked to a story line, just random occurrences to deal with!
PvP you can just ignore, it is a dead mess already for years.
I am not a fan of rng with this new "tfo" but maybe others will.
Just my thoughts.
Group content is means to an end - I do particular queues because they reward the marks that I need to complete a certain goal - usually getting a piece from the reputation equipment. Certain marks have a somewhat limited number of queues that award them. And this is where I could imagine longing for a greater sense of variety.
Whenever my focus shifted to getting fleet marks and dilithium, I never felt a lack of variety - there are many ways to get those.
Not really, no - I want to log into the game and make some progress towards finalizing any of the dozen space/ground builds I have under construction. Buying ships and traits, obtaining and upgrading equipment... Making tiny steps towards checking off my bucket list of things I want to do in STO. I imagine some time in the future, when I have all the ships I want, all equip at gold mk XV, I will just go and fly them for fun, enjoying the various builds... But the number of things to get and try out is growing, so maybe that time will never even come.
Wait... Yes! I have! I always wanted to play Big Dig or Breaking the Planet (I only participated in it once many years ago when NPC Dahar Masters with their Disruptor Pulswaves could wipe your entire team with one shot)! But... Random TFOs will only be for 5-man queues? Oh... Okay... Nevermind then... It's funny though, because I wouldn't describe any of those as "forgotten"... The reason some queues are dead is not that people "forgot" - on the contrary, it's because they remember. They remember that "oh that's the queue that's bugged", "oh, that's the queue where noobs don't know what to do", "oh, that's the queue that's too long and gives crappy rewards", "oh, that's the queue that's boring and repetitive"...
Lets just substitute the word WORK for "Game Play Time" then you might start to get it. The point of this thread is what would it take to revive dead TFO's. It takes me 8 hours of "Game Play Time" to do my dailies. I assume you know what those are. My daily fleet mark is UAA, it takes roughly 10 min the rewards are worth it to me to play it. If you get a team that doesn't know the map you lose about 100 Fleet marks. Hence the reward wouldn't be worth it. Might as well do a CCA in 2 min. I just am asking for a filter for Random/Manual so they don't ruin a run. Obviously you know how much "Game Play Time" it takes to build a fleet with all those wonderful stats you posted above. So if the reward to "Game Play Time" ratio isn't worth it you can count me out. It just sucks that I'm gonna have to do my fleet mark daily as a CCA now cause the randoms will wreck my UAA run.
That's awesome I'm glad you like playing your style. I love playing my style. Thats the best part of the game you can do what you want. Hopefully the change wont affect my style. Meaning my TFO gets filled with Randoms that "don't care about the occassional failed queue" If it does theres not alot I can do but adapt my style.
They released so much content so you can make specific builds and be prepared for the mission. This may no longer be possible unless they make changes to how we activate traits, gear, and abilities.. etc
Some people don't like all of the content and will be forced to deal with it. At first the pay out will be nice but it will be reduced or made very difficult to get the higher level rewards. (similar to lock box dice)
Will the lock out timer still be in affect? People are going to drop out of missions a lot!
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I hope it continues, as there have been some very well worded and often very passionate and honest posts that often mirror my own thoughts, and they're directly going to the guy in charge in a respectful way.
> angrytarg wrote: »
>
> How much people resort to flat out lying in the pursuit of stirring angst against a new feature is staggering. And on page 7 people still post questions the announcement blog answers, just to call DOOM if 'x or y is no more!'
>
>
>
> While I agree that some posts may be getting a bit off topic, this is one of many recent threads where many of the posts while not necessarily giving the exact feedback the OP is looking for do add some unique input and insight and are directly related in their own way.
>
> I hope it continues, as there have been some very well worded and often very passionate and honest posts that often mirror my own thoughts, and they're directly going to the guy in charge in a respectful way.
And I am not referring to that, although much is based on speculation. I'm referring to.posts claiming the "normal" way of queuing will go away when the blog itself says you can still manually queue and the likes.
Essentially everything stays the same, a new feature is added on top not replacing anything.
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