I'm just joining this debate so I can get this off of my chest:
I watched the first 2 episodes of Star Trek Dumpsterfire and was so turned off by it that I wanted nothing to do with the series from that moment on. I can only lament that CBS want to give the series some legitimacy by including it here. I will play the expansion ONLY because it will benefit me in some way in the game. CBS can kiss my Shiny White Male Heterosexual TRIBBLE$ if they think that this will improve my opinion of that train wreck they're trying to call Star Trek!
Skimming through all of this I see nearly the same reaction that you guys had when Kelvin Timeline content got added into the game. (Ships, mission, equipment, characters) and yet you willingly fly said ships, use said equipment and even have some of the boffs, doffs and what not. I'm gonna call it now. In a few months time I'll see a lot of Discovery uniforms, Discovery ships, Discovery weapons being used and for a singular reasons. The stats are probably gonna be pretty sweet. But hey time will tell I guess.
People would fly a ship that looks like the poo emoji if the stats were good enough.
I'll totally agree with that statement! ^_^ ^_^ (And thank you, that was my best laugh of the night. ^_^)
My main concern from what I'm reading now is whether it means they'll be adding on new Discovery content at the expense of not adding on any far future content past Victory is Life. Honestly, I have a lot of chars through ViL right now, and I would like them to have something more to do afterwards... I might consider making an alt for the Discovery stuff, but I have too many alts to upkeep as it is, right now, and it's a waste if they're all shelved because there's no new content for 65 level players
My main concern from what I'm reading now is whether it means they'll be adding on new Discovery content at the expense of not adding on any far future content past Victory is Life.
They already said they would since there is still so much of other Trek to cover as well.
I really don't understand this fear either. Did they add only Romulan content after LoR dropped? Did they only add Delta Quadrant stuff after Delta Rising dropped? Did they only add TOS stuff after AoY dropped? Did they only add Gamma Quadrant stuff after ViL?
There answer to all these questions is no, so why would it be different now?
Because those weren't listed as being "concurrent" with the currently in progress series, like this is. It makes me think that every time Discovery airs something new, all other STO might get dropped in favor of pushing more discovery into it to appease the network's shill demand. It makes it sound less like one expansion, and more like 'additional missions and things more often for Discovery side things when the show is releasing episodes'.
Also, the timing feels just a little bit suspect. This is suddenly happening right coinciding with the announcement of a 'new' executive producer. That's why I've already worried that they put in a 'yes' man to shill whatever CBS wants, and they'll want Discovery peddled and pushed like a designer drug on the player base, other shows be damned since they're not 'currently airing'.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I'm just joining this debate so I can get this off of my chest:
I watched the first 2 episodes of Star Trek Dumpsterfire and was so turned off by it that I wanted nothing to do with the series from that moment on. I can only lament that CBS want to give the series some legitimacy by including it here. I will play the expansion ONLY because it will benefit me in some way in the game. CBS can kiss my Shiny White Male Heterosexual TRIBBLE$ if they think that this will improve my opinion of that train wreck they're trying to call Star Trek!
That's all I have to say on this matter.
Oh my..........
I respect your opinion, but please refer to TRIBBLE as TRIBBLE to respect the people here that do like it.
Besides, Eve Online is now free to play if you get sick of STO because of TRIBBLE.
It's actually kinda fun. I've never played it before but the learning curve is.....WOW.....really steep. However, graphics are nice and the ships are really great looking.
There are other games as well like Homeworld and Elite Dangerous (to name a few of the better SF MMOs out there).
However, before you go rushing off to any of those, let Cryptic and CBS add this extension, see if they gave all of us who dislike TRIBBLE enough respect to not force us to have to play any adventures in it to advance our Toons, and then make a decision. If CBS/Cryptic have added content of TRIBBLE that is too intrusive for you (or me, or anybody else that dislikes TRIBBLE), then all of us can move on to other SF MMOs like Eve Online (which is actually a harsh, nasty, cut-throat PVP, but I for one like that sort of thing so......Eve is appealing).
I respect your opinion too, It doesn't bother me if you like it or dislike it as you have the right to do as you please. I also have the right to do as I please and it isn't showing disrespect to anyone but CBS to refer to that show as Star Trek Dumpsterfire. As my intention IS to show disrespect to CBS for Star Trek Dumpsterfire I shall continue to refer to it as such. I'll keep playing Star Trek Online as well as I only need to create perhaps 2 characters to accommodate the new expansion and I can tolerate a low exposure to Star Trek Dumpsterfire as I do enjoy this game. I simply wanted to express my displeasure at having to associate with such a low quality product in an otherwise good (my opinion) game. Having done so, and hopefully clarified my position, I now leave the conversation, again.
Oh come on. You can like the changes, you can dislike them, but you can't pretend they don't exist.
I even like some of the redesigns, the phasers for example look amazing and so does the redesigned Enterprise. But they're very clearly different, and no amount of denial can change that fact.
Additionally, the producers themselves are on the record stating that they were influenced by the Abrams reboot films. So while they say it's Prime, that clearly comes with quite a large amount of retconning.
Visuals don't matter and have nothing to do with canon. This is true of long running video game series, that constantly redesign even basic weapons and armor every game, and yet still treat them as the same weapon/armor as every past game, and this is true of every long running TV meta-series like Star Trek, which constantly redesigned things to better reflect the current day idea of what the future's tech would look like.
Any attempt to try to base canon on visual designs is not only wholly dishonest, but incredibly fallacious, and speaks volumes on the dishonesty of the person trying to push the idea.
But visual design cues are a hallmark of the franchise. The iconography of the most famous ships and equipment is rooted in its visuals. "That thing from Star Trek" will come to mind to people unfamiliar to the specifics based solely on how it looks. And the franchise maintained visual continuity to a remarkable degree for decades. So to dismiss the visuals is a little short-sighted, no pun intended, as it is what makes an era recognisable.
Oh come on. You can like the changes, you can dislike them, but you can't pretend they don't exist.
I even like some of the redesigns, the phasers for example look amazing and so does the redesigned Enterprise. But they're very clearly different, and no amount of denial can change that fact.
Additionally, the producers themselves are on the record stating that they were influenced by the Abrams reboot films. So while they say it's Prime, that clearly comes with quite a large amount of retconning.
Visuals don't matter and have nothing to do with canon. This is true of long running video game series, that constantly redesign even basic weapons and armor every game, and yet still treat them as the same weapon/armor as every past game, and this is true of every long running TV meta-series like Star Trek, which constantly redesigned things to better reflect the current day idea of what the future's tech would look like.
Any attempt to try to base canon on visual designs is not only wholly dishonest, but incredibly fallacious, and speaks volumes on the dishonesty of the person trying to push the idea.
But visual design cues are a hallmark of the franchise. The iconography of the most famous ships and equipment is rooted in its visuals. "That thing from Star Trek" will come to mind to people unfamiliar to the specifics based solely on how it looks. And the franchise maintained visual continuity to a remarkable degree for decades. So to dismiss the visuals is a little short-sighted, no pun intended, as it is what makes an era recognisable.
Design Cues however are still strongly shared.
But remember that even inside a single series, there are visual differences. The Enterprise D for example used two different models, with different sizes that had slight divergences. A close inspection will reveal them. But it's still supposed to be the same ship, not implying it was refitted or transformed somehow between two shots. The Defiant is famous for its inconsistent size, and some ships were later switched from model to CGI, and changed then (The Nebula is I believe the famous example here). Trills look different between their original appearance in TNG and DS9 (and in fact, I think they share basically no design cues, other than "humanoid") Sometimes there are differences in the prosthetics used for the same character. Heck, sometimes they reuse actors (Gul Macet and Gul Dukat are really similar...)
The key thing is that if you watch ENT, DSC or TNG and look at the different ships, you won't think: "Hey, this could be aStar Wars" or "I wonder how many Star Furies they have on that hangar bay" or "I love Red Dwarf" or "I hope they don't use the Sonic Screwdriver again in this episode", "Oh, I hope this is the one were Beka and Tyr finally do it". You see that it's Star Trek immediately.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
> @somtaawkhar said: > > >BUT KLINGONS LOOK TOTALLY DIFFERENT! > Actually, they are just bald. If you put hair on them they look like higher quality versions of the TNG/DS98/VOY era Klingons, and we have seen bald, or nearly bald, Klingons before, so we know some of them are.
I like to adress that bit here because it's not true. They very clearly look and sound different - and they are supposed to. The designers themselves stated they intentionally created new Klingons because they wanted to. The claim that they look like they always do has been falsified by the very people who created them. And no the still images with hair shopped on are no proof as it's still images with hair shopped on.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Hey! There's another 'argue about DSC and not listen to a word other people are saying' thread and nobody invited me? 19 pages. I don't think there's enough space in the text box to quote everything.
So I'll just go with... @angrytarg Add hair and they look identical. Or as identical as Worf and Chang look anyway.
Even you could of seen that.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
As I said, if TRIBBLE / DSC / Boogie in SPAAACE! / whatever is a small portion of the larger game going forwards, I'm cool with that.
I don't think its fair to dictate, on any terms, exactly what proportion of what show should be used in STO. It should be up to the writers. If they can get a good storyline, they should damn well go for any series or combination of series and use it to its full potential.
Take ENT for example. That's bee underutilized and a "everything should be used in idealized proportions to suit the preconceptions of the fanbase" attitude would have given that priority over ViL. DS9 already had a sizable presence in the game through Cardassian/Mirror Universe and Dominion arcs. But, an ENT expansion wouldn't have been able to play off AOY as adeptly because its so deeply routed in an earlier age and the temporal cold war that it would have amounted to a retread, just before another return to an earlier time in Trek history through Age of Discovery.
ViL worked better in context. So, in spite of not using everything in equal proportions (to the potential consternation of the fans) it was made. That attitude shouldn't be adopted by Cryptic moving forward. They should tell whatever stories they think, as writers and creators, will make for the most compelling game. If they want to use Discovery, they should do that and let population-level feedback be the judge of whether the implementation was right or wrong (and adjust plans for future content accordingly.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
> @badgerpants999 said: > I'm just joining this debate so I can get this off of my chest: > > I watched the first 2 episodes of Star Trek Dumpsterfire and was so turned off by it that I wanted nothing to do with the series from that moment on. I can only lament that CBS want to give the series some legitimacy by including it here. I will play the expansion ONLY because it will benefit me in some way in the game. CBS can kiss my Shiny White Male Heterosexual TRIBBLE$ if they think that this will improve my opinion of that train wreck they're trying to call Star Trek! > > That's all I have to say on this matter.
Comments
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 65, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 65, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 65, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 63, Rom Tac
Sukima, Lvl 65, Fed Vul Sci
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anointed Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
I watched the first 2 episodes of Star Trek Dumpsterfire and was so turned off by it that I wanted nothing to do with the series from that moment on. I can only lament that CBS want to give the series some legitimacy by including it here. I will play the expansion ONLY because it will benefit me in some way in the game. CBS can kiss my Shiny White Male Heterosexual TRIBBLE$ if they think that this will improve my opinion of that train wreck they're trying to call Star Trek!
That's all I have to say on this matter.
I'll totally agree with that statement! ^_^ ^_^ (And thank you, that was my best laugh of the night. ^_^)
My main concern from what I'm reading now is whether it means they'll be adding on new Discovery content at the expense of not adding on any far future content past Victory is Life. Honestly, I have a lot of chars through ViL right now, and I would like them to have something more to do afterwards... I might consider making an alt for the Discovery stuff, but I have too many alts to upkeep as it is, right now, and it's a waste if they're all shelved because there's no new content for 65 level players
Because those weren't listed as being "concurrent" with the currently in progress series, like this is. It makes me think that every time Discovery airs something new, all other STO might get dropped in favor of pushing more discovery into it to appease the network's shill demand. It makes it sound less like one expansion, and more like 'additional missions and things more often for Discovery side things when the show is releasing episodes'.
Also, the timing feels just a little bit suspect. This is suddenly happening right coinciding with the announcement of a 'new' executive producer. That's why I've already worried that they put in a 'yes' man to shill whatever CBS wants, and they'll want Discovery peddled and pushed like a designer drug on the player base, other shows be damned since they're not 'currently airing'.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I respect your opinion too, It doesn't bother me if you like it or dislike it as you have the right to do as you please. I also have the right to do as I please and it isn't showing disrespect to anyone but CBS to refer to that show as Star Trek Dumpsterfire. As my intention IS to show disrespect to CBS for Star Trek Dumpsterfire I shall continue to refer to it as such. I'll keep playing Star Trek Online as well as I only need to create perhaps 2 characters to accommodate the new expansion and I can tolerate a low exposure to Star Trek Dumpsterfire as I do enjoy this game. I simply wanted to express my displeasure at having to associate with such a low quality product in an otherwise good (my opinion) game. Having done so, and hopefully clarified my position, I now leave the conversation, again.
But visual design cues are a hallmark of the franchise. The iconography of the most famous ships and equipment is rooted in its visuals. "That thing from Star Trek" will come to mind to people unfamiliar to the specifics based solely on how it looks. And the franchise maintained visual continuity to a remarkable degree for decades. So to dismiss the visuals is a little short-sighted, no pun intended, as it is what makes an era recognisable.
But remember that even inside a single series, there are visual differences. The Enterprise D for example used two different models, with different sizes that had slight divergences. A close inspection will reveal them. But it's still supposed to be the same ship, not implying it was refitted or transformed somehow between two shots. The Defiant is famous for its inconsistent size, and some ships were later switched from model to CGI, and changed then (The Nebula is I believe the famous example here). Trills look different between their original appearance in TNG and DS9 (and in fact, I think they share basically no design cues, other than "humanoid") Sometimes there are differences in the prosthetics used for the same character. Heck, sometimes they reuse actors (Gul Macet and Gul Dukat are really similar...)
The key thing is that if you watch ENT, DSC or TNG and look at the different ships, you won't think: "Hey, this could be aStar Wars" or "I wonder how many Star Furies they have on that hangar bay" or "I love Red Dwarf" or "I hope they don't use the Sonic Screwdriver again in this episode", "Oh, I hope this is the one were Beka and Tyr finally do it". You see that it's Star Trek immediately.
>
> >BUT KLINGONS LOOK TOTALLY DIFFERENT!
> Actually, they are just bald. If you put hair on them they look like higher quality versions of the TNG/DS98/VOY era Klingons, and we have seen bald, or nearly bald, Klingons before, so we know some of them are.
I like to adress that bit here because it's not true. They very clearly look and sound different - and they are supposed to. The designers themselves stated they intentionally created new Klingons because they wanted to. The claim that they look like they always do has been falsified by the very people who created them. And no the still images with hair shopped on are no proof as it's still images with hair shopped on.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
So I'll just go with...
@angrytarg Add hair and they look identical. Or as identical as Worf and Chang look anyway.
Even you could of seen that.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
They don't slavishly replicate (that wouldn't have the effect of seeing the original design in its original context.)
I don't think its fair to dictate, on any terms, exactly what proportion of what show should be used in STO. It should be up to the writers. If they can get a good storyline, they should damn well go for any series or combination of series and use it to its full potential.
Take ENT for example. That's bee underutilized and a "everything should be used in idealized proportions to suit the preconceptions of the fanbase" attitude would have given that priority over ViL. DS9 already had a sizable presence in the game through Cardassian/Mirror Universe and Dominion arcs. But, an ENT expansion wouldn't have been able to play off AOY as adeptly because its so deeply routed in an earlier age and the temporal cold war that it would have amounted to a retread, just before another return to an earlier time in Trek history through Age of Discovery.
ViL worked better in context. So, in spite of not using everything in equal proportions (to the potential consternation of the fans) it was made. That attitude shouldn't be adopted by Cryptic moving forward. They should tell whatever stories they think, as writers and creators, will make for the most compelling game. If they want to use Discovery, they should do that and let population-level feedback be the judge of whether the implementation was right or wrong (and adjust plans for future content accordingly.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
> I'm just joining this debate so I can get this off of my chest:
>
> I watched the first 2 episodes of Star Trek Dumpsterfire and was so turned off by it that I wanted nothing to do with the series from that moment on. I can only lament that CBS want to give the series some legitimacy by including it here. I will play the expansion ONLY because it will benefit me in some way in the game. CBS can kiss my Shiny White Male Heterosexual TRIBBLE$ if they think that this will improve my opinion of that train wreck they're trying to call Star Trek!
>
> That's all I have to say on this matter.
Good because your post screamed attention
"look at me, aren't I clever and important"