There is no learning... You are either in the 25% who have no clue what you are doing regardless of how long you've been playing, 50% who plays average, or 25% who kills everything (not nessacarily because you know what you are doing).
No point in locking anything.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
Having played around for a bit on the tribble server with a new Jemmy, I can say the starting setup is adequate for a new player to jump in and be able to play. Sure, there will undoubtedly be players that throw fits over those same new players jumping into STF queues, but that's where some coaching would be better than grown men/women screaming and cursing at people over a video game. Given that the STF's still reward you, it's not that big of a deal. Last I checked, games were for entertainment, not a second job.
As a seasoned player, I was dismayed at the announcement that the Jem'Hadar will be available to brand new players without playing any of the other factions and learning the game. Considering the JH will have all the Reps completed, as well as specs and R&D, this would throw a daunting task to a new player of learning all this, whilst throwing them into (and disrupting to some degree) Endgame content and PvE's. So my question to the community is, should the Jem'Hadar be locked out to new players till they have completed at least one faction's storyline to completion upto the introduction of ViL?
all this comes down to is entitlement, and i don't accept entitlement claims as an arguement in any form anyway. My answer is No.
That works the other way around too: new players feeling entitled to have everything just handed to them, without the grind.
Thing just is, the grind for a new player is simply too much; it was doable with the reps alone, but with all the spec trees included, it's becoming an uphill battle I suspect few newbies are willing to put up with. Giving Pay'Hadars a leg-up is basically just way of 'nerfing' the grind. And a needed nerf at that. And yes, as a veteran player, I grinded (I refuse to say 'ground', as that sounds just awkward) everything from scratch, of course. Still, I understand the need to let new players step in at a slightly higher level than just 0.
Considering the JH will have all the Reps completed, as well as specs and R&D
That's not what I heard, actually. I thought they would get only 4 completed reps, and no spec trees. Does someone have the definitive info on this, please?
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Oh, I think there'll still be a grind. A new player, never having played before, will have no dill, no cash, no real gear of any sort. No way to get rep gear, no marks, have to buy a freighter load of zen to buy any t-6 ships, and without a doubt, pure cannon fodder in the pvp fields.
There'll still be a grind for the new lvl 60 insta-toonzs.
As a seasoned player, I was dismayed at the announcement that the Jem'Hadar will be available to brand new players without playing any of the other factions and learning the game. Considering the JH will have all the Reps completed, as well as specs and R&D, this would throw a daunting task to a new player of learning all this, whilst throwing them into (and disrupting to some degree) Endgame content and PvE's. So my question to the community is, should the Jem'Hadar be locked out to new players till they have completed at least one faction's storyline to completion upto the introduction of ViL?
Ignoring some of the information as it may have been correct at the time of posting (it isn't now), there's one big thing I think that speaks for how bad your idea of locking the new faction behind a Play-Wall is.
The KDF.
Before Legacy of Romulus you couldn't create a KDF character until you'd leveled a Federation character to some arbitrary level (I think it was somewhere in the 20s, like 23 or 24), and consequently the faction suffered for it. There were a lot of drawbacks but the biggest one was that people playing through as a Fed were far less likely to enjoy playing KDF...if they were even willing to roll a KDF character.
If we put a play-wall in front of the Jem'Hadar faction then there's a very good chance that the faction - and thus the expansion will fall flat on its face and be a net negative for the game.
As a seasoned player, I was dismayed at the announcement that the Jem'Hadar will be available to brand new players without playing any of the other factions and learning the game. Considering the JH will have all the Reps completed, as well as specs and R&D, this would throw a daunting task to a new player of learning all this, whilst throwing them into (and disrupting to some degree) Endgame content and PvE's. So my question to the community is, should the Jem'Hadar be locked out to new players till they have completed at least one faction's storyline to completion upto the introduction of ViL?
Ignoring some of the information as it may have been correct at the time of posting (it isn't now), there's one big thing I think that speaks for how bad your idea of locking the new faction behind a Play-Wall is.
The KDF.
Before Legacy of Romulus you couldn't create a KDF character until you'd leveled a Federation character to some arbitrary level (I think it was somewhere in the 20s, like 23 or 24), and consequently the faction suffered for it. There were a lot of drawbacks but the biggest one was that people playing through as a Fed were far less likely to enjoy playing KDF...if they were even willing to roll a KDF character.
If we put a play-wall in front of the Jem'Hadar faction then there's a very good chance that the faction - and thus the expansion will fall flat on its face and be a net negative for the game.
Wrong just wrong. The KDF back then suffered bc all they had was pvp to level up by not locking them behide a level. 97% of the people back then who rolled a KDF had no clue how pvp even worked and the left bc they got crushed. Now the ones who did learn to pvp well feds got crushed all day.
There is nothing wrong with putting up a level wall.
There is nothing wrong with putting up a level wall.
There's nothing "wrong" with it sure. But it's the wrong decision if you want this to be a successful expansion financially. Which ultimately is good for all of us.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
> @salazarraze said:
> cross821 wrote: »
>
> There is nothing wrong with putting up a level wall.
>
>
>
>
> There's nothing "wrong" with it sure. But it's the wrong decision if you want this to be a successful expansion financially. Which ultimately is good for all of us.
Lots of other very successful MMOs disagree with you.
Which has nothing to do with STO and ViL and what is clearly aimed at bringing back players that left and bringing in new players. Also the lack of a level wall has zero effect on existing players despite what some of the butthurt posters in this thread would have you think.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
> @salazarraze said:
> cross821 wrote: »
>
> There is nothing wrong with putting up a level wall.
>
>
>
>
> There's nothing "wrong" with it sure. But it's the wrong decision if you want this to be a successful expansion financially. Which ultimately is good for all of us.
Lots of other very successful MMOs disagree with you.
Which has nothing to do with STO and ViL and what is clearly aimed at bringing back players that left and bringing in new players. Also the lack of a level wall has zero effect on existing players despite what some of the butthurt posters in this thread would have you think.
and it will fail on both. Yes there is going to be a spike in players for ViL but thats true with any new exp they put out. Older players come back play the storys and leave again. New players who role a JH are going to be dealing with TRIBBLE load outs and skills that devs are going to give them along with have no clue what to do so they will leave. It should have been level lock end of story.
I will just point to WoW who has two level locked classes and one you have to even pay for and that game crush's sto in terms of number of players and thats a pay to play game.
It didn't hurt WoW to introduce DethKnights with a level wall, it didn't hurt Neverwinter to put Dragonborn behind a level wall, in fact placing a playable class/race behind a level wall hasn't hurt any MMO I have ever heard of. It won't hurt STO or Victory is Life either, despite what some doomsayers would have you believe.
You're right. It won't hurt STO because it won't be in the game. STO isn't Wow. Never was never will be. Each situation is different. Using a pay to play game like WoW as a comparison is laughable.
STO is a F2P game. Marketing a new expansion to try and bring in new players and SELL a $130 pack that they can't even use right away if there was a level wall is a horribly stupid idea.
The end of the story here is that there is not a level wall. It's a sound strategy too since it enables them to try and sell the $130 pack to new players as well as existing players.
I will just point to WoW who has two level locked classes and one you have to even pay for and that game crush's sto in terms of number of players and thats a pay to play game.
Shocker here but WoW is fantasy MMO which has a much larger appeal than a niche sci-fi IP like Star Trek. STO will never be WoW. It never could have been WoW. Comparing it to WoW is asinine.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I simply disagree azrael. Cryptic also apparently believes that one solution for Neverwinter doesn't necessarily apply to STO which is exactly what I'm saying. I don't play Neverwinter so I can't comment on it at all. All I can say is what I've already said so I think that wraps it up as we have both said what we're gonna say.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
It didn't hurt WoW to introduce DethKnights with a level wall, it didn't hurt Neverwinter to put Dragonborn behind a level wall, in fact placing a playable class/race behind a level wall hasn't hurt any MMO I have ever heard of. It won't hurt STO or Victory is Life either, despite what some doomsayers would have you believe.
You're right. It won't hurt STO because it won't be in the game. STO isn't Wow. Never was never will be. Each situation is different. Using a pay to play game like WoW as a comparison is laughable.
STO is a F2P game. Marketing a new expansion to try and bring in new players and SELL a $130 pack that they can't even use right away if there was a level wall is a horribly stupid idea.
The end of the story here is that there is not a level wall. It's a sound strategy too since it enables them to try and sell the $130 pack to new players as well as existing players.
I will just point to WoW who has two level locked classes and one you have to even pay for and that game crush's sto in terms of number of players and thats a pay to play game.
Shocker here but WoW is fantasy MMO which has a much larger appeal than a niche sci-fi IP like Star Trek. STO will never be WoW. It never could have been WoW. Comparing it to WoW is asinine.
if you or the devs really think a brand new player who roles a JH with no clue how anything in the game works and is going to be lost is going to drop 130 bucks on this new pack then.....all I can say is whatever your on I want some of it.
Fantasy Vs Sci fi is not that big of a gap as you think. WoW has more players bc its a better game NW has more players bc its a better game. EVE online, a Sci fi MMO thats free to play, has more players bc its a better game. The fact STO and NW are on same game engine is mind blowing.
well, i didn't see anything on its wiki page or the blogs introducing it in tyranny of dragons that making one is locked to having an existing level 60 character
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Here's my two cents: this is a video game, not reality. It shouldn't be work, yet people take it as seriously as work, if not more so. In the end everyone will have access to endgame content, so why should it matter WHEN they have it? This isn't a sub game anymore and even when it was we had elitists saying n00bs are horrible. Most instances don't have a long cooldown, so it isn't like a tragedy if you fail an elite. Just recue and do it again. Not that hard and not limited to once a day. Chill out and stop being so elitist. IT'S A VIDEO GAME.
My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
I definitely think the Jem'Hadar should be locked, simply because of the complexity that tutorial presents. Even as a long time player I'm finding them to be information overload. You have a bunch of bridge officers, many of whom appear not to be the standard engineer\science\tactical, and as such their powers don't work in the various bridge slots. Those powers that are available are either new, or at least a bit out of mainstream. And whilst I think 2 rows of magic powers is more than plenty JH toons start with 3 rows unlocked! Sadly that also means STO is veering ever further away from the Trek concept.
Does anyone really believe this expansion is going to attract any new players ?
If someone pays $100+ dollars for a game I think they should expect to not be handicapped by design. Having said that in LOTRO when they released the Warden class a few years into the game they actually put a warning on the selection page that stated the class was intended for advanced players. I could support Cryptic putting an information pop up on the Jem Creation that says... this class is intended for advanced players. Turbine didn't want new players rolling a warden first but they didn't restrict it... they just gently suggested it was a bad idea.
Comments
There is no learning... You are either in the 25% who have no clue what you are doing regardless of how long you've been playing, 50% who plays average, or 25% who kills everything (not nessacarily because you know what you are doing).
No point in locking anything.
Live Long and Stay FABULOUS!
That works the other way around too: new players feeling entitled to have everything just handed to them, without the grind.
Thing just is, the grind for a new player is simply too much; it was doable with the reps alone, but with all the spec trees included, it's becoming an uphill battle I suspect few newbies are willing to put up with. Giving Pay'Hadars a leg-up is basically just way of 'nerfing' the grind. And a needed nerf at that. And yes, as a veteran player, I grinded (I refuse to say 'ground', as that sounds just awkward) everything from scratch, of course. Still, I understand the need to let new players step in at a slightly higher level than just 0.
That's not what I heard, actually. I thought they would get only 4 completed reps, and no spec trees. Does someone have the definitive info on this, please?
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
There'll still be a grind for the new lvl 60 insta-toonzs.
Thank you kindly!
The KDF.
Before Legacy of Romulus you couldn't create a KDF character until you'd leveled a Federation character to some arbitrary level (I think it was somewhere in the 20s, like 23 or 24), and consequently the faction suffered for it. There were a lot of drawbacks but the biggest one was that people playing through as a Fed were far less likely to enjoy playing KDF...if they were even willing to roll a KDF character.
If we put a play-wall in front of the Jem'Hadar faction then there's a very good chance that the faction - and thus the expansion will fall flat on its face and be a net negative for the game.
Wrong just wrong. The KDF back then suffered bc all they had was pvp to level up by not locking them behide a level. 97% of the people back then who rolled a KDF had no clue how pvp even worked and the left bc they got crushed. Now the ones who did learn to pvp well feds got crushed all day.
There is nothing wrong with putting up a level wall.
There's nothing "wrong" with it sure. But it's the wrong decision if you want this to be a successful expansion financially. Which ultimately is good for all of us.
Which has nothing to do with STO and ViL and what is clearly aimed at bringing back players that left and bringing in new players. Also the lack of a level wall has zero effect on existing players despite what some of the butthurt posters in this thread would have you think.
and it will fail on both. Yes there is going to be a spike in players for ViL but thats true with any new exp they put out. Older players come back play the storys and leave again. New players who role a JH are going to be dealing with TRIBBLE load outs and skills that devs are going to give them along with have no clue what to do so they will leave. It should have been level lock end of story.
I will just point to WoW who has two level locked classes and one you have to even pay for and that game crush's sto in terms of number of players and thats a pay to play game.
STO is a F2P game. Marketing a new expansion to try and bring in new players and SELL a $130 pack that they can't even use right away if there was a level wall is a horribly stupid idea.
The end of the story here is that there is not a level wall. It's a sound strategy too since it enables them to try and sell the $130 pack to new players as well as existing players.
Shocker here but WoW is fantasy MMO which has a much larger appeal than a niche sci-fi IP like Star Trek. STO will never be WoW. It never could have been WoW. Comparing it to WoW is asinine.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
if you or the devs really think a brand new player who roles a JH with no clue how anything in the game works and is going to be lost is going to drop 130 bucks on this new pack then.....all I can say is whatever your on I want some of it.
Fantasy Vs Sci fi is not that big of a gap as you think. WoW has more players bc its a better game NW has more players bc its a better game. EVE online, a Sci fi MMO thats free to play, has more players bc its a better game. The fact STO and NW are on same game engine is mind blowing.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
If someone pays $100+ dollars for a game I think they should expect to not be handicapped by design. Having said that in LOTRO when they released the Warden class a few years into the game they actually put a warning on the selection page that stated the class was intended for advanced players. I could support Cryptic putting an information pop up on the Jem Creation that says... this class is intended for advanced players. Turbine didn't want new players rolling a warden first but they didn't restrict it... they just gently suggested it was a bad idea.