This poll screams of some serious butthurt. Yes we all had to grind our way to 60 back when it wasn't easy. Hating on noobs because they can bypass the grind is just immature though. Bringing in a bunch of new players is exactly what this game needs. And with these Jem'Hadar characters, they can enjoy the game from the start and grind up FEDs and KDFs later if they stick around.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
My vote is no but hear me out
Already, there is a lack of players even playing the end game content. Sure, Cryptic/PWE does have a steady influx of people dropping a few $$$ here and there on zen, but if you look at everything they keep trickling into the game with the addition of new episodes here and there, it makes sense to add in a faction that you can start pre-leveled already.
I have been in a few arguements with people over this. Even mid-seasons, they are still constantly adding VO/VA to missions, hiring voice actors and so forth. All of that costs money. Even to get an unknown voice actor to come in will still cost something. In the overall scheme of things, they need to keep attempting to add things to entice new and old players alike to give STO a try. And it's not just the actors, they need to pay their employees and teams as they update the game.
Sure, there have been some additions that flopped in the past, but with anything, you have successes and failures. In my honest opinion, there is a lack of Star Trek related games in the gaming market that are worth playing. There a few old games that are good, but the majority of released games are sub-par compared to other similar games and most don't even make attempts to capture the feel of "Star Trek".
Star Trek Online isn't perfect by any means. But, in my opinion for what its worth, it does attempt to capture the feel of Star Trek.
As for the end game content in STO, it really doesn't matter if you have a pug team that that blasts through and meets every objective while finishing the mission in 3.5 minutes, or get a pug team where no can even get through a ships shields. If you want the first option, you can always create your own teams with friends/acquaintenances you have developed over your time in STO. When you finish a successful mission with all bonus objectives or finish a mission just skirting by with all bonus objectives failed, you still get rewarded/compensated for your efforts. There are no weekly limits like other games I'm not going to mention or anything like that. You just wait 30 short minutes and try again! That's what happens with taking chances with a pug.
With all that being said, I do believe that possibly creating a time game for end game content (based on elite status of the mission) could be implemented. IE - you can't access the ELITE missions until you have been in a game for however long. Some things like that. But in the end, it would be good to see an influx of new players keeping this game alive into the future.
Happy hunting and pixel explosions my gaming friends! Long live Dental!
The most FABULOUS of Gorn signing off.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
I think its mostly the Time Investment vs Reward in regards to the queues. That's why Borg Alert and Infected are so popular. They're short, and have good payout.
While I admit some of the other, longer ones are fun... the payout for a couple of them can't compete with Faceroll Infected.
And I would like to point out before anyone tries to suggest making marks universal or allowing all queues to award all marks... that is the WORST idea in the long, sad history of Bad Ideas because of the same thing. Faceroll Infected = Profit.
Yes, provided there isn't a Claptrap-in-Borderlands style "are you REALLY sure?" warning pop-up. If that's coming too then let players find their way around as they will (it's just important that folks know what they're getting into.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
As a seasoned player, I was dismayed at the announcement that the Jem'Hadar will be available to brand new players without playing any of the other factions and learning the game. Considering the JH will have all the Reps completed, as well as specs and R&D, this would throw a daunting task to a new player of learning all this, whilst throwing them into (and disrupting to some degree) Endgame content and PvE's. So my question to the community is, should the Jem'Hadar be locked out to new players till they have completed at least one faction's storyline to completion upto the introduction of ViL?
all this comes down to is entitlement, and i don't accept entitlement claims as an arguement in any form anyway. My answer is No.
How is this entitlement, I gotta know this one.
Oh? and i suppose you are going to just play the "i win card" because i can't prove this point or that point? Nice try.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
According to the queues themselves. You would know this if you tried to queue for 95% of the queues.
Not a valid data point to infer population statistics from (professional judgement there) and wide of the point of the thread. You lack an effective means of quantification, a direct connection to the phenomena at hand (ex. relating 1:1 queue population dispersion and total game population), and even within that context make an untenable implicit assumption that most queues in STO should be well populated under ideal conditions (answer to that: very likely not given n-levels of subdivision and strong preferences for rewards/gameplay).
You're not going to be able to argue the point (well, you can but not productively) so let it drop as "something said on the internet." It's not necessary to make your point about the Jem'Hadar faction anyway (can simplify to "get players in-game more quickly, make happy!" No matter the health of the game there's a functional argument to be made there.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
This implies that there is a learning process, which isn't always the case.
I know I'm not the only one who has seen level 60 players with absolutely no idea what they're doing.
^ this in a nutshell.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
According to the queues themselves. You would know this if you tried to queue for 95% of the queues.
Not a valid data point to infer population statistics from (professional judgement there) and wide of the point of the thread. You lack an effective means of quantification, a direct connection to the phenomena at hand (ex. relating 1:1 queue population dispersion and total game population), and even within that context make an untenable implicit assumption that most queues in STO should be well populated under ideal conditions (answer to that: very likely not given n-levels of subdivision and strong preferences for rewards/gameplay).
You're not going to be able to argue the point (well, you can but not productively) so let it drop as "something said on the internet." It's not necessary to make your point about the Jem'Hadar faction anyway (can simplify to "get players in-game more quickly, make happy!" No matter the health of the game there's a functional argument to be made there.)
There seems to be a major issue here with over analyzing my statements made in this post. At the end of the day, instead of arguing statistical analysis on total population counts of the general STO queues, my main argument was indicative of a general statement of "It would be nice to see an influx of new players into this game" TL:DR statement, though long winded. I have noticed that sometimes people like to pick a general statement and focus on that one statement while ignoring the rest of the post .
This implies that there is a learning process, which isn't always the case.
I know I'm not the only one who has seen level 60 players with absolutely no idea what they're doing.
This is an STO Tradition. It's a basic tenet of this game. I remember having to help fleet mates on some of those Legacy of Romulus missions because they were having problems surviving. Like one couldn't survive in a D'Deridex. The D'D has problems but survival is not one of them. She didn't know she had hull and shield repair abilities like Emergency Power to Shields, Hazard Emitters, Science / Engineering Team, etc. The scary part was at the time of LOR's release, she had been with the game since Launch...
This poll screams of some serious butthurt. Yes we all had to grind our way to 60 back when it wasn't easy. Hating on noobs because they can bypass the grind is just immature though. Bringing in a bunch of new players is exactly what this game needs. And with these Jem'Hadar characters, they can enjoy the game from the start and grind up FEDs and KDFs later if they stick around.
There's no butthurt implied at all. I'm a Martial Arts instructor, and I love my job teaching people, but giving someone a Black Belt on day one is just a bit too much! This is about enabling the new players to learn the game before throwing them in the deep end, with the BIG RED, YELLOW AND BLUE BUTTONS all flashing away, and the first thing they ask is 'how do I turn it on?'
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
There seems to be a major issue here with over analyzing my statements made in this post. At the end of the day, instead of arguing statistical analysis on total population counts of the general STO queues, my main argument was indicative of a general statement of "It would be nice to see an influx of new players into this game" TL:DR statement, though long winded. I have noticed that sometimes people like to pick a general statement and focus on that one statement while ignoring the rest of the post .
By design, won't fix.
(I did tell you what your point was and what you could have done instead to avoid a statistical discussion in the first place. Bear in mind too that I responded to your energetic and entirely tangential defense of non-data rather than the original comment.)
This implies that there is a learning process, which isn't always the case.
I know I'm not the only one who has seen level 60 players with absolutely no idea what they're doing.
This is an STO Tradition. It's a basic tenet of this game.
One thing I would like to add here is that it does go both ways. Just as some people are slow on the uptake other are quick on it too. The former are serviced by the longer tutorials for the other factions. To the latter, the amount of content to get through before you reach the end-game story probably counts as excessive. A fast track could be very useful to bringing them into STO (so long as they can easily recognize what the Jem'Hadar faction means when making a character.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
There seems to be a major issue here with over analyzing my statements made in this post. At the end of the day, instead of arguing statistical analysis on total population counts of the general STO queues, my main argument was indicative of a general statement of "It would be nice to see an influx of new players into this game" TL:DR statement, though long winded. I have noticed that sometimes people like to pick a general statement and focus on that one statement while ignoring the rest of the post .
By design, won't fix.
(I did tell you what your point was and what you could have done instead to avoid a statistical discussion in the first place. Bear in mind too that I responded to your energetic and entirely tangential defense of non-data rather than the original comment.)
This implies that there is a learning process, which isn't always the case.
I know I'm not the only one who has seen level 60 players with absolutely no idea what they're doing.
This is an STO Tradition. It's a basic tenet of this game.
One thing I would like to add here is that it does go both ways. Just as some people are slow on the uptake other are quick on it too. The former are serviced by the longer tutorials for the other factions. To the latter, the amount of content to get through before you reach the end-game story probably counts as excessive. A fast track could be very useful to bringing them into STO (so long as they can easily recognize what the Jem'Hadar faction means when making a character.)
Precisely. I know from personal experience people learn at their own pace.
And Cryptic put in the latest blog:
"Turn the TIde is a Jem’Hadar only episode, required for all new Jem’Hadar characters to complete before joining a faction. It is designed for experienced players as you will start at level 60. Note: it is not a tutorial - it is not repeatable or skippable. However, you will get to conquer various enemies of the Dominion for the glory of the Founders. Remember: Victory is life!"
I know this is just the Episode, but, out the 'mouths' of Cryptic themselves, this goes to emphasize my point that players completely new to STO, should play through another faction's storyline and level to 60 before this becomes available to play.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
On the one hand, it wouldn't do any good. It's possible to take a character from level 11 to 60 just by Doffing. On the other hand, I don't like this trend of just giving out level 60 characters. More than playing as a Jem'Hadar or a Cardassian, I was looking forward to playing whatever campaign they offered to go with said races, only to find out there won't be one. Ditto on sub races that could've gone with said faction/races. I know some players wanted instant level 60 characters, but I think VIL would be better if they offered a campaign where you level up as usual, and then once you've done that, given players the option to skip the campaign. On leveling up without learning the needed skills, I think that every rank should have a tutorial that teaches you what you really need to know for each rank. It's no secret that tactics at T1 don't work at T6.
This poll screams of some serious butthurt. Yes we all had to grind our way to 60 back when it wasn't easy. Hating on noobs because they can bypass the grind is just immature though. Bringing in a bunch of new players is exactly what this game needs. And with these Jem'Hadar characters, they can enjoy the game from the start and grind up FEDs and KDFs later if they stick around.
There's no butthurt implied at all. I'm a Martial Arts instructor, and I love my job teaching people, but giving someone a Black Belt on day one is just a bit too much! This is about enabling the new players to learn the game before throwing them in the deep end, with the BIG RED, YELLOW AND BLUE BUTTONS all flashing away, and the first thing they ask is 'how do I turn it on?'
The big problem with your black belt comparison is that people have to prove that they are proficient to earn their black belt. Nothing is earned or proven by slogging through the story to get to level 60. Being level 60 doesn't mean that you know what you're doing. There are plenty of people that are level 60 that haven't got a single clue as to how the game works.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
It doesn't matter. If someone wants to be extremely limited in what their level 60 character can do, then go for it. However, the majority of players will choose another 'faction' to create the player they want.
I seriously doubt that there will be a lot of new players making their main character as Jem'Hadar and miss out on the vast majority of the content. Then there is the issue that Jem'Hadar seem to be very lacking in character customization. Therefore, the vast majority of Jem'Hadar characters will be just for playing the unique content and unlocking the Dominion ships for a player's main characters.
As far as the Temporal and Delta Recruits bonuses applying to Jem'Hadar, I suspect that Dilithium, Fleet Marks, and R&D materials won't be granted while the other bonuses like the Ultra Rare Mk XIII Reputation equipment will be granted.
I would lock them until peeps made 1 Fed 1 Kdf and 1 Rom to lvl 60.
I am also not sure yet if I like the idea of the prefilled rep stuff. I think start at 60 is a great Idea especially for those veterans with multiple alts already but the rest?!
As it stands now I have a new fully geared PvE toon in a matter of days. Just transfer the 3 dozen mark boxes from endeavor and some dil to get the gear I want. Done and back to Admirality!
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I would lock them until peeps made 1 Fed 1 Kdf and 1 Rom to lvl 60.
I am also not sure yet if I like the idea of the prefilled rep stuff. I think start at 60 is a great Idea especially for those veterans with multiple alts already but the rest?!
As it stands now I have a new fully geared PvE toon in a matter of days. Just transfer the 3 dozen mark boxes from endeavor and some dil to get the gear I want. Done and back to Admirality!
Agreed.
While I like the pre-filled reps thing because it's less that I have to do (I have no interest in leveling a new alt) it does seem like it's just 'hey, here is a free maxed out character."
As far as from a content perspective, it really provides almost nothing in it's current form. You don't have to build up anything except your specializations, and unlocking your ship traits and boom.. you're there.
That option should not be available to someone who has never played STO. You have players flying around maxed out with no idea what they're doing.
No, I don't think it should. You want to hear some scary statistics? On one of those consoletard cheevo tracking sites, it says that less than 5% of players will actually make it to level 60. More than 1 in 20 players that shows up is driven away before reaching 60. Saying "players shouldn't be able to play Jem'hadar and thus join the same game everyone else is" is basically saying that 95% of players should go and pound sand.
There is always a middle ground though.
This is comparing starting with nothing to starting with everything. Surely there is a point in between the two?
I'm not familiar with the site you're refering too, but does that site just track users of that site that have achieved level 60? or does it track it across XBox Live/PS Network as a whole?
Either way, I don't think the solution to players losing interest before level 60 is to give it to them outright, the solution has to be making the climb to 60 more fun and more rewarding, not just handing it to them on a plate. The problem with the proposed scenario is that now instead of quitting outright, these players that never learned to play the game are now your team mates in mission queues.
I could go either way, but I don't think it really matters. Getting to Level 50 or 60 the standard way is not guaranteed to give yu useful insights into how to play the game well, and in the end, every player can decide for himself how he wants to play the game.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Comments
Already, there is a lack of players even playing the end game content. Sure, Cryptic/PWE does have a steady influx of people dropping a few $$$ here and there on zen, but if you look at everything they keep trickling into the game with the addition of new episodes here and there, it makes sense to add in a faction that you can start pre-leveled already.
I have been in a few arguements with people over this. Even mid-seasons, they are still constantly adding VO/VA to missions, hiring voice actors and so forth. All of that costs money. Even to get an unknown voice actor to come in will still cost something. In the overall scheme of things, they need to keep attempting to add things to entice new and old players alike to give STO a try. And it's not just the actors, they need to pay their employees and teams as they update the game.
Sure, there have been some additions that flopped in the past, but with anything, you have successes and failures. In my honest opinion, there is a lack of Star Trek related games in the gaming market that are worth playing. There a few old games that are good, but the majority of released games are sub-par compared to other similar games and most don't even make attempts to capture the feel of "Star Trek".
Star Trek Online isn't perfect by any means. But, in my opinion for what its worth, it does attempt to capture the feel of Star Trek.
As for the end game content in STO, it really doesn't matter if you have a pug team that that blasts through and meets every objective while finishing the mission in 3.5 minutes, or get a pug team where no can even get through a ships shields. If you want the first option, you can always create your own teams with friends/acquaintenances you have developed over your time in STO. When you finish a successful mission with all bonus objectives or finish a mission just skirting by with all bonus objectives failed, you still get rewarded/compensated for your efforts. There are no weekly limits like other games I'm not going to mention or anything like that. You just wait 30 short minutes and try again! That's what happens with taking chances with a pug.
With all that being said, I do believe that possibly creating a time game for end game content (based on elite status of the mission) could be implemented. IE - you can't access the ELITE missions until you have been in a game for however long. Some things like that. But in the end, it would be good to see an influx of new players keeping this game alive into the future.
Happy hunting and pixel explosions my gaming friends! Long live Dental!
The most FABULOUS of Gorn signing off.
While I admit some of the other, longer ones are fun... the payout for a couple of them can't compete with Faceroll Infected.
And I would like to point out before anyone tries to suggest making marks universal or allowing all queues to award all marks... that is the WORST idea in the long, sad history of Bad Ideas because of the same thing. Faceroll Infected = Profit.
Anyways... back on topic...
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Oh? and i suppose you are going to just play the "i win card" because i can't prove this point or that point? Nice try.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
According to the queues themselves. You would know this if you tried to queue for 95% of the queues.
Not a valid data point to infer population statistics from (professional judgement there) and wide of the point of the thread. You lack an effective means of quantification, a direct connection to the phenomena at hand (ex. relating 1:1 queue population dispersion and total game population), and even within that context make an untenable implicit assumption that most queues in STO should be well populated under ideal conditions (answer to that: very likely not given n-levels of subdivision and strong preferences for rewards/gameplay).
You're not going to be able to argue the point (well, you can but not productively) so let it drop as "something said on the internet." It's not necessary to make your point about the Jem'Hadar faction anyway (can simplify to "get players in-game more quickly, make happy!" No matter the health of the game there's a functional argument to be made there.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
^ this in a nutshell.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
Stop pretending that anything you or anyone else post on this forum is going to change something in the game.
Just ask Tacofangs how that will go for you..
There seems to be a major issue here with over analyzing my statements made in this post. At the end of the day, instead of arguing statistical analysis on total population counts of the general STO queues, my main argument was indicative of a general statement of "It would be nice to see an influx of new players into this game" TL:DR statement, though long winded. I have noticed that sometimes people like to pick a general statement and focus on that one statement while ignoring the rest of the post
This is an STO Tradition. It's a basic tenet of this game. I remember having to help fleet mates on some of those Legacy of Romulus missions because they were having problems surviving. Like one couldn't survive in a D'Deridex. The D'D has problems but survival is not one of them. She didn't know she had hull and shield repair abilities like Emergency Power to Shields, Hazard Emitters, Science / Engineering Team, etc. The scary part was at the time of LOR's release, she had been with the game since Launch...
There's no butthurt implied at all. I'm a Martial Arts instructor, and I love my job teaching people, but giving someone a Black Belt on day one is just a bit too much!
By design, won't fix.
(I did tell you what your point was and what you could have done instead to avoid a statistical discussion in the first place. Bear in mind too that I responded to your energetic and entirely tangential defense of non-data rather than the original comment.)
One thing I would like to add here is that it does go both ways. Just as some people are slow on the uptake other are quick on it too. The former are serviced by the longer tutorials for the other factions. To the latter, the amount of content to get through before you reach the end-game story probably counts as excessive. A fast track could be very useful to bringing them into STO (so long as they can easily recognize what the Jem'Hadar faction means when making a character.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
Precisely. I know from personal experience people learn at their own pace.
And Cryptic put in the latest blog:
"Turn the TIde is a Jem’Hadar only episode, required for all new Jem’Hadar characters to complete before joining a faction. It is designed for experienced players as you will start at level 60. Note: it is not a tutorial - it is not repeatable or skippable. However, you will get to conquer various enemies of the Dominion for the glory of the Founders. Remember: Victory is life!"
I know this is just the Episode, but, out the 'mouths' of Cryptic themselves, this goes to emphasize my point that players completely new to STO, should play through another faction's storyline and level to 60 before this becomes available to play.
I seriously doubt that there will be a lot of new players making their main character as Jem'Hadar and miss out on the vast majority of the content. Then there is the issue that Jem'Hadar seem to be very lacking in character customization. Therefore, the vast majority of Jem'Hadar characters will be just for playing the unique content and unlocking the Dominion ships for a player's main characters.
As far as the Temporal and Delta Recruits bonuses applying to Jem'Hadar, I suspect that Dilithium, Fleet Marks, and R&D materials won't be granted while the other bonuses like the Ultra Rare Mk XIII Reputation equipment will be granted.
Yes, I know. But, I wanted the Cards to have their own faction, complete with it's own campaign and sub races.
I am also not sure yet if I like the idea of the prefilled rep stuff. I think start at 60 is a great Idea especially for those veterans with multiple alts already but the rest?!
As it stands now I have a new fully geared PvE toon in a matter of days. Just transfer the 3 dozen mark boxes from endeavor and some dil to get the gear I want. Done and back to Admirality!
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Agreed.
While I like the pre-filled reps thing because it's less that I have to do (I have no interest in leveling a new alt) it does seem like it's just 'hey, here is a free maxed out character."
As far as from a content perspective, it really provides almost nothing in it's current form. You don't have to build up anything except your specializations, and unlocking your ship traits and boom.. you're there.
That option should not be available to someone who has never played STO. You have players flying around maxed out with no idea what they're doing.
There is always a middle ground though.
This is comparing starting with nothing to starting with everything. Surely there is a point in between the two?
I'm not familiar with the site you're refering too, but does that site just track users of that site that have achieved level 60? or does it track it across XBox Live/PS Network as a whole?
Either way, I don't think the solution to players losing interest before level 60 is to give it to them outright, the solution has to be making the climb to 60 more fun and more rewarding, not just handing it to them on a plate. The problem with the proposed scenario is that now instead of quitting outright, these players that never learned to play the game are now your team mates in mission queues.