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Expansion - Victory is Life! Jem'Hadar, Level 65, Etc.

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  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,345 Community Moderator
    Tier 7 ships are not a planned feature for Victory is Life.

    Unless you hear them say specifically they're introducing t7s or even t6u assume it's nothing but rumor
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  • kyle223catkyle223cat Member Posts: 584 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    tigeraries wrote: »
    I wouldnt worry about T7 till they raise the level cap to 70. L50=T5, xpan bumped level to 60=T6.


    Ergo, level 65=T7U :smiley:

    They said yesterday that they​ currently do not plan to have T6U or T7 in any future update our expansion.


    Good. :) Thx. I will take a Jem Escort with a 12th console, though. :P

    Can't say I blame you for wanting that. :p
    da84303d8bc4080b9860968f634f98682215bbe5.gifv
  • crusty8maccrusty8mac Member Posts: 1,370 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    (unnecessary flame/troll attack on another member removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
    __________________________________
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  • newromulan#1567 newromulan Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    look - what is wrong with coming out with a newer version of a ship that is slightly more powerful every year or two? I mean Apple and Samsung do it regularly with a $1000 phone - and there are line-ups of people throwing money at them for 2% better performance in app loading time!
  • kyle223catkyle223cat Member Posts: 584 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    look - what is wrong with coming out with a newer version of a ship that is slightly more powerful every year or two? I mean Apple and Samsung do it regularly with a $1000 phone - and there are line-ups of people throwing money at them for 2% better performance in app loading time!

    Problem is people invested a lot in T6 ships, including ones that were just T6 versions of T5 ships we already had. Coming out with a new tier would just make everyone feel like they have to upgrade to the next tier, especially if they released T7 versions of the T6 ships that we already had T5 versions of. I think most people are fond of the idea that T6 stays the highest tier and we just keep building on the list of that tier of ships rather than going up another tier again.

    With companies like Apple, they make real world, high-end products that are super important and useful in every day life. You can do so many different things with them. Same with other companies like Microsoft and Samsung. People are obviously willing to pay $600-$1000 for an iPhone or iPad and upwards of $2,500 for a Mac, which is shown by Apple's enormous sales figures and the fact that they're the most valuable company in the world. However, I won't disagree with you on the app loading times statement. While in theory the speed of iPhones has been increasing drastically each year, the average person doesn't really notice a difference unless they're upgrading from an iPhone 5 to a X. I have an iPhone 6s and it runs fine still. Most people will pay a lot for a smartphone but I don't think most people would want to pay $35-$40 for C-Store ships. I know $30 is my limit.
    da84303d8bc4080b9860968f634f98682215bbe5.gifv
  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    look - what is wrong with coming out with a newer version of a ship that is slightly more powerful every year or two? I mean Apple and Samsung do it regularly with a $1000 phone - and there are line-ups of people throwing money at them for 2% better performance in app loading time!

    you're right, we already have T6U/T7 in that sense. I doubt they'll ever call it like that though, because much like modern politics, they're refraining from that label in order to sustain the illusion of making players believe their T6 ships from couple of years ago are just as good as current ships (which is bogus), so they don't rage-quit the game like it happened last time.

    What sucks about this however is that if you have a certain attachment to a certain type of ship, then you're gimping yourself if ship happens to be out of date in terms of overal performance.

    My suggestion is rebalancing older ships (unnecessary flame/troll point removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
  • crusty8maccrusty8mac Member Posts: 1,370 Arc User
    look - what is wrong with coming out with a newer version of a ship that is slightly more powerful every year or two? I mean Apple and Samsung do it regularly with a $1000 phone - and there are line-ups of people throwing money at them for 2% better performance in app loading time!

    And those people are idiots: sheeple. I'm still quite happy with my Galaxy Note II.

    That being said, with the power creep that goes with level cap increases, I've stopped playing all of my alts. Just don't have time to keep each one up-to-date, and at the competitive level I desire. With this expansion, I'll play a Jem'Hadar captain just far enough to get whatever the prize is, then he will be assigned to my dilithium farming team, just like I did my TOS toon and my Reman. I won't be wasting time, effort, or $$$$$ on new ships and other stuff for that faction.

    It is sad, I really miss playing some of my alts, and I miss PvP. It is also angering that I will have to upgrade all of my gear, and ships. Unless you have some combination of unlimited cash and unlimited time, level cap increases are a disincentive to play.
    __________________________________
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  • docbrown#0652 docbrown Member Posts: 124 Arc User
    look - what is wrong with coming out with a newer version of a ship that is slightly more powerful every year or two? I mean Apple and Samsung do it regularly with a $1000 phone - and there are line-ups of people throwing money at them for 2% better performance in app loading time!

    What wrong with Cryptic adding a T7 ship you ask? Pretty much everything coming out with a T7 ship is a disaster waiting to happen for Cryptic. You either have to pay more money for a t7 ship or grind longer for it. Not everybody has the time to grind for a endgame ship.
  • newromulan#1567 newromulan Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    kyle223cat wrote: »
    look - what is wrong with coming out with a newer version of a ship that is slightly more powerful every year or two? I mean Apple and Samsung do it regularly with a $1000 phone - and there are line-ups of people throwing money at them for 2% better performance in app loading time!

    Problem is people invested a lot in T6 ships, including ones that were just T6 versions of T5 ships we already had. Coming out with a new tier would just make everyone feel like they have to upgrade to the next tier, especially if they released T7 versions of the T6 ships that we already had T5 versions of. I think most people are fond of the idea that T6 stays the highest tier and we just keep building on the list of that tier of ships rather than going up another tier again.

    With companies like Apple, they make real world, high-end products that are super important and useful in every day life. You can do so many different things with them. Same with other companies like Microsoft and Samsung. People are obviously willing to pay $600-$1000 for an iPhone or iPad and upwards of $2,500 for a Mac, which is shown by Apple's enormous sales figures and the fact that they're the most valuable company in the world. However, I won't disagree with you on the app loading times statement. While in theory the speed of iPhones has been increasing drastically each year, the average person doesn't really notice a difference unless they're upgrading from an iPhone 5 to a X. I have an iPhone 6s and it runs fine still. Most people will pay a lot for a smartphone but I don't think most people would want to pay $35-$40 for C-Store ships. I know $30 is my limit.

    But my analogy is still kind of correct - even if they came out with a T7 or a T6u -( lets face it the MW with a extra universal slot and more hull is kind of a t6u in an ugly disguise), it's the same as the phone - you can do virtually everything just fine with a iPhone 7 vs an iphone 8. Same with the ships - there is no content in the game that can't be done on a T5u.
  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    there is no content in the game that can't be done on a T5u.

    But done in a somewhat c'rappier manner than the rest of the top dogs, and people generally don't like that. ;)
  • kyle223catkyle223cat Member Posts: 584 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    kyle223cat wrote: »
    look - what is wrong with coming out with a newer version of a ship that is slightly more powerful every year or two? I mean Apple and Samsung do it regularly with a $1000 phone - and there are line-ups of people throwing money at them for 2% better performance in app loading time!

    Problem is people invested a lot in T6 ships, including ones that were just T6 versions of T5 ships we already had. Coming out with a new tier would just make everyone feel like they have to upgrade to the next tier, especially if they released T7 versions of the T6 ships that we already had T5 versions of. I think most people are fond of the idea that T6 stays the highest tier and we just keep building on the list of that tier of ships rather than going up another tier again.

    With companies like Apple, they make real world, high-end products that are super important and useful in every day life. You can do so many different things with them. Same with other companies like Microsoft and Samsung. People are obviously willing to pay $600-$1000 for an iPhone or iPad and upwards of $2,500 for a Mac, which is shown by Apple's enormous sales figures and the fact that they're the most valuable company in the world. However, I won't disagree with you on the app loading times statement. While in theory the speed of iPhones has been increasing drastically each year, the average person doesn't really notice a difference unless they're upgrading from an iPhone 5 to a X. I have an iPhone 6s and it runs fine still. Most people will pay a lot for a smartphone but I don't think most people would want to pay $35-$40 for C-Store ships. I know $30 is my limit.

    But my analogy is still kind of correct - even if they came out with a T7 or a T6u -( lets face it the MW with a extra universal slot and more hull is kind of a t6u in an ugly disguise), it's the same as the phone - you can do virtually everything just fine with a iPhone 7 vs an iphone 8. Same with the ships - there is no content in the game that can't be done on a T5u.

    Your analogy makes sense. Going from a T6 ship to a T7 ship could be compared to going from an iPhone 6 to and iPhone 7. I think the point I was going for is it's more about people's willingness to pay for the upgrade. People seem to be fine with upgrading their iPhone, whether it's after 1 year or after 3 years. Would people be OK with upgrading to another tier of ships for more money? When Delta Rising came out, it drove off a lot of people and the game has never fully recovered from that loss. I think another tier being introduced would drive even more people away than Delta Rising did, and the game wouldn't be able to recover from that.
    da84303d8bc4080b9860968f634f98682215bbe5.gifv
  • newromulan#1567 newromulan Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    tremere12 wrote: »
    there is no content in the game that can't be done on a T5u.

    But done in a somewhat c'rappier manner than the rest of the top dogs, and people generally don't like that. ;)

    But isn't this what all for profit companies do? Release new things that are better than the item before? Put less stuff in the package and raise the price? come out with a slightly faster processor? etc etc etc - you think Nvidia's new 20xx cards coming in a few weeks are not going to be 30% or more faster than what they are selling for $1000us right now? They don't say - "oh sorry we won't release a better, faster card because X number of people have the old card and they would be pissed"
  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    tremere12 wrote: »
    there is no content in the game that can't be done on a T5u.

    But done in a somewhat c'rappier manner than the rest of the top dogs, and people generally don't like that. ;)

    But isn't this what all for profit companies do? Release new things that are better than the item before? Put less stuff in the package and raise the price? come out with a slightly faster processor? etc etc etc - you think Nvidia's new 20xx cards coming in a few weeks are not going to be 30% or more faster than what they are selling for $1000us right now? They don't say - "oh sorry we won't release a better, faster card because X number of people have the old card and they would be pissed"

    Except in a video-game, rules are different - more geared towards fun (or at least they should be).
  • newromulan#1567 newromulan Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    tremere12 wrote: »
    tremere12 wrote: »
    there is no content in the game that can't be done on a T5u.

    But done in a somewhat c'rappier manner than the rest of the top dogs, and people generally don't like that. ;)

    But isn't this what all for profit companies do? Release new things that are better than the item before? Put less stuff in the package and raise the price? come out with a slightly faster processor? etc etc etc - you think Nvidia's new 20xx cards coming in a few weeks are not going to be 30% or more faster than what they are selling for $1000us right now? They don't say - "oh sorry we won't release a better, faster card because X number of people have the old card and they would be pissed"

    Except in a video-game, rules are different - more geared towards fun (or at least they should be).

    Well this is a business. It's not really a free game - someone has to buy stuff or the serves go down. That is why every company making money comes out with something just a bit better then before - to make people want to buy it. It's just a delicate balance - make it not so good as to totally TRIBBLE every prior customer off, but enough of an improvement to make people want one.
  • crusty8maccrusty8mac Member Posts: 1,370 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    (2nd unnecessary troll/flame post removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
    __________________________________
    STO Forum member since before February 2010.
    STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
    I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User

    tremere12 wrote: »
    tremere12 wrote: »
    there is no content in the game that can't be done on a T5u.

    But done in a somewhat c'rappier manner than the rest of the top dogs, and people generally don't like that. ;)

    But isn't this what all for profit companies do? Release new things that are better than the item before? Put less stuff in the package and raise the price? come out with a slightly faster processor? etc etc etc - you think Nvidia's new 20xx cards coming in a few weeks are not going to be 30% or more faster than what they are selling for $1000us right now? They don't say - "oh sorry we won't release a better, faster card because X number of people have the old card and they would be pissed"

    Except in a video-game, rules are different - more geared towards fun (or at least they should be).

    Well this is a business. It's not really a free game - someone has to buy stuff or the serves go down. That is why every company making money comes out with something just a bit better then before - to make people want to buy it. It's just a delicate balance - make it not so good as to totally **** every prior customer off, but enough of an improvement to make people want one.

    It's a TRIBBLE business model, and I've seen better (i.e in ESO my gear from 2015 still rocks in 2018). But it is what it is.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,623 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    crusty8mac wrote: »

    They may not come with the expansion, but they are coming.

    Cryptic has no plans to introduce T7 on any timeframe (source: Ten Forward). They haven't written a design document banning future developers from considering it years down the road. But, for all intents and purposes, stretching into the foreseeable future, it's not happening. That's a definitive a "no" as we get with this kind of update.

    Feel free to disagree, but that's 1. on you (facts are what they are) and 2. a major tangent in a Victory is Life thread.
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,345 Community Moderator
    Guy's lets keep things civil in here and related to the discussion of the upcoming expac. You can disagree and debate while still being civil about it. Otherwise I will have to break out the mod pen again.
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  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,326 Arc User
    I am kinda hoping that since the Cardasian's are in a state that they do not really have a presence in the quadants like they had compared to the other main factions. That the recruit event might be based around some the alpha Jem'hadars, and Cardassians seek to join the main two/three factions after finding their skills in less demand in other areas, and the return of the Hur's an dominion via a recruit event like the temporal/delta events. Maybe with the ability to make a Cardassian character is made available to the three factions factions (rom, fed, kdf), with that character able to unlock rewards like previous event characters, but after the event the ability to make a Cardassian character remain even after the event ends.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    kyle223cat wrote: »
    kyle223cat wrote: »
    look - what is wrong with coming out with a newer version of a ship that is slightly more powerful every year or two? I mean Apple and Samsung do it regularly with a $1000 phone - and there are line-ups of people throwing money at them for 2% better performance in app loading time!

    Problem is people invested a lot in T6 ships, including ones that were just T6 versions of T5 ships we already had. Coming out with a new tier would just make everyone feel like they have to upgrade to the next tier, especially if they released T7 versions of the T6 ships that we already had T5 versions of. I think most people are fond of the idea that T6 stays the highest tier and we just keep building on the list of that tier of ships rather than going up another tier again.

    With companies like Apple, they make real world, high-end products that are super important and useful in every day life. You can do so many different things with them. Same with other companies like Microsoft and Samsung. People are obviously willing to pay $600-$1000 for an iPhone or iPad and upwards of $2,500 for a Mac, which is shown by Apple's enormous sales figures and the fact that they're the most valuable company in the world. However, I won't disagree with you on the app loading times statement. While in theory the speed of iPhones has been increasing drastically each year, the average person doesn't really notice a difference unless they're upgrading from an iPhone 5 to a X. I have an iPhone 6s and it runs fine still. Most people will pay a lot for a smartphone but I don't think most people would want to pay $35-$40 for C-Store ships. I know $30 is my limit.

    But my analogy is still kind of correct - even if they came out with a T7 or a T6u -( lets face it the MW with a extra universal slot and more hull is kind of a t6u in an ugly disguise), it's the same as the phone - you can do virtually everything just fine with a iPhone 7 vs an iphone 8. Same with the ships - there is no content in the game that can't be done on a T5u.

    Your analogy makes sense. Going from a T6 ship to a T7 ship could be compared to going from an iPhone 6 to and iPhone 7. I think the point I was going for is it's more about people's willingness to pay for the upgrade. People seem to be fine with upgrading their iPhone, whether it's after 1 year or after 3 years. Would people be OK with upgrading to another tier of ships for more money? When Delta Rising came out, it drove off a lot of people and the game has never fully recovered from that loss. I think another tier being introduced would drive even more people away than Delta Rising did, and the game wouldn't be able to recover from that.
    None of that makes any sense. People don't abandon their products because a new model is released, they either upgrade to the new one or keep using the one they have. And getting people to buy new stuff instead of riding on the old is good. F2P doesn't run on people who are happy with their 3-year old stuff. In runs on people who want to buy new stuff.

    Nevermind in STO it doesn't really matter if you're flying the free leveling ships for all the challenge the game gives. In most games I play, 3-year old things even if they were totally must-have back then would rarely be above average now. Latest high-level content would almost certainly require up-to-date builds and the hardest levels and best scores/rewards could even require things that were just released with the content itself. One game has an ongoing policy of literally forbidding premium items older than 2 years in the currently featured content.

    And Delta Rising driving off "a lot of people" is an unsubstantiated myth.
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,252 Arc User
    I swear, STO goes tier 7 I will flip my desk. Only tier 7 ships I'll get at that point are my life time sub ships and call it a day.
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  • abcd0#4990 abcd0 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »

    And Delta Rising driving off "a lot of people" is an unsubstantiated myth.

    Hahahahahahaha
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,780 Community Moderator
    Ok, folks, it's been explicitly stated that T7 ships are not happening for this Expansion, so let's keep the conversation focused on what's actually in the Expansion.

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  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,506 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    And Delta Rising driving off "a lot of people" is an unsubstantiated myth.
    "It was the best expansion ever and the players loved it". Given the quotes author it must be true.





  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,623 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    So how about that upcoming Jem'Hadar faction? I've already got my character lined up and he could serve as the impetus for a new Foundry series.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • djf021djf021 Member Posts: 1,361 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @protoneous said:
    > jonsills wrote: »
    >
    > somtaawkhar wrote: »
    >
    > evilmark444 wrote: »
    >
    > So no new content for existing characters ... can't say I'm surprised after AoY's underwhelming amount of content.
    >
    >
    >
    > Literally what? Where are you pulling this **** from?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > The same Well of Whining that claimed people hated LoR, and that provides the constant claim that our sister game Champions Online is "dying".
    >
    >
    >
    > LoR? Wasn't it Delta Rising that cost the game so many players? LoR was a good time for the game whereas DR had huge XP gaps, a massive enemy difficulty increase amongst other things. According to one dev though it was the best expansion ever and the players loved it.

    Most of the complaints about DR were made up overblown whining dramatics that had zero actual basis.

    I've been wondering about this and can't help but think you are correct. I keep seeing people making all these claims about how "a lot of the player base left last time", etc but I have to wonder: how can a player actually know that? Maybe I just don't know; perhaps that kind of info on player numbers can be datamined...but I think it's more likely folks are just blowing their own displeasure way out of proportion.
    C4117709-1498929112732780large.jpg

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  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,326 Arc User
    I pertsonally always thought it was less of the devs making content more challenging, which drove any players that had left away. Over it being more that it was the method used to add that challenge, difficulty to the game that might have driven off any players that left. Since overall visually they merely buffed the hull/shield points an even stats of existing mobs, which artificially made the game harder (well more frustrating actually), compared to adding more mechanics that the players could interact with an create that difficulty increase without the buff (at least a much less lower buff).

    Even the idea of making it that failing option objectives in advanced an higher difficulty was not a bad idea, so much as a badly implemented idea, since part of the idea was to get players to take notice of the optional objectives in advanced. Yet with how the idea was implemented it merely road blocked players, and wasted player's time, where as a change to make it that completing optional objectives was the method of getting elite marks might have gone over better, as well as actually get players to notice the optional objectives in less of a bad light.
  • storulesstorules Member Posts: 3,221 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    protoneous wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    And Delta Rising driving off "a lot of people" is an unsubstantiated myth.
    "It was the best expansion ever and the players loved it". Given the quotes author it must be true.


    Hahaha...Old DR...players Loved it so much they Stopped playing. I'm sure ViL will not be like that since the expectations are the LOWEST Ever. Only 6 episodes and a watershed faction. At least the information is honest and upfront instead of hyping claims as it was with DR.​​
    tumblr_ncbngkt24X1ry46hlo1_400.gif
  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,482 Arc User
    nothing is absolute... the level cap is only 65 now. If they ever raise the cap to 70... then I would start to wonder about T7. Till then T6 is the cap and it'll be a "happily ever after". You know an end game Ent was never gonna be as well... till it came.
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