But anyways, none of the other bzttlezones really got improvements because they didn't really need them. Defera NEEDS it though, because its literally unfinished, and probably the most bugged out place in the whole game.
Oh I can think of one that does. The currently pretty much unplayable Gon'cra. It may have been QUITE a while since I was in there, but last time I was it was literally impossible to cap all the zones because instead of how the other battlezones function, with players actually able to prevent a recap, the capture zones seem to be on a hard timer and flip on their own even if there's a player there. And you can forget about capping the center three because apparently you can only get a certain amount of the way before it resets on you.
If anyone's been there recently and can either confirm or deny this is still true, please feel free. But until then I'm saying that Defera is not the only battlezone that needs help.
Surprisingly, I successfully completed 2x Gon'cra BZ in the last two days (queues have been remarkably filled anyway, as of late). But the BZ is an unmitigated mess, no doubt. I just go there for the salvage. And even if you *do* win the zone, half the time they don't even pay you the 3 promomatter containers (not that I need those any more, but still).
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,597Community Moderator
One thing I DO like about Gon'cra is that the objectives are different from other zones. A bit more emphesis on teamwork over just "shoot all the things".
I've seen 6 weeks as the time, but I doubt there are foundry missions "done in less than a week and are far better" than modern episodes. Please list 4 or 5 of them to prove you're not just making that up.
No dude, again, 1 week. At most. I know that you want to believe everything cryptic says, it is your "job". But that doesnt mean its true. Not a chance a mission takes more than 1 week, 2 at most to get it done. Now, of course if you have only one guy doing the job.. well, it could take even a whole year. I dont need to prove anything. Its common sense in the moment you have little knowledge about 3d apps, coding, and all that stuff. Obviously you dont.
all right.... Do it. Show me proof that what you say is true!
all right.... Do it. Show me proof that what you say is true!
I dont need to.
Yes you do. Otherwise everything you say is naught but hot air. See, I've written several Foundry missions, good luck writing a decent story in a week.
ou just dont understand how things are done. And this applies to bridge interiors and everything else. Is that simple. And im not talking about STO specifically but about videogames generally speaking.
Oh? And are you a professional Environmental Artist?
There's a dfifference between what people can do in the Foundry and what Cryptic (Or any other game maker) can do. Foundry authors are only able to use existing assets. Cryptic's been making brand new assets on a regular basis. They're not just using the frickin' StarCraft Map Editor you know. It takes time to not only make everything, but to make sure it actually FUNCTIONS as it should. And lets not forget the cutscenes too. One bit of code out of place and it goes boom. Foundry Authors have it easy as they don't have to mess with code.
The ultimate question really is... Do you want it done fast or do you want it done right? Frankly I'd prefer they take their time to make sure its high quality rather than settle for what could amount to a fetch quest or a glorified Patrol. If they wanted quick and easy, they could just bring back the old Exploration System and let us recover artifacts from the Third Borg Dynasty.
all right.... Do it. Show me proof that what you say is true!
I dont need to. I know what im talking about, im just surprised that people believes everything cryptic says without blinking after all these years (because thats the only way you would "believe" that it takes months to make an episode hahaha), but again, im not surprised. You can think what you want, but again, dont ask for new content or anything at all if you dont have a clue the REAL time it takes to make 3d models, texturing, aplying lightning, do the story writting, etc. All the assets are already there. And its only little work cryptic needs to do for a new episode most of the times, in fact, besides new voice overs and probably a couple of new 3d models (for the exterior , and not even new characters since they can reuse anyone they want) they have everything right there. You just dont understand how things are done. And this applies to bridge interiors and everything else. Is that simple. And im not talking about STO specifically but about videogames generally speaking.
No...you REALLY need to. Because as somebody who actually had worked on development of applications for a living, what you claimed is just full on BS. I mean it takes more than a week just to plan who is gonna do what for the project. So unless you can prove otherwise, EVERYTHING you spew is just BS. People who make some of the best foundry missions is calling what you claim BS. Basically people who have shown they have one IOTA of knoweldge in the matter either in this thread or in the past has said what you claimed as pure BS. I mean you had a nice try of backtracking there with the tossed in caveat of enough people...but yeah...no. Either prove it by posting a GOOD foundry mission one week from now, or just admit that you are wrong and move on.
I probably wouldn't put it in those harsh terms, but yeah, you're right. I don't make Foundry missions, but I *do* make maps for GTA V, for example. You know how long it took me to finish my last mansion? Over 2 months! And why? Because it's hard. It's like the Foundry, with predefined assets. You can't just slap a few things together, though: it needs to look good as well. You need to create 'paths' (for peds to walk in), and assorted scripted events. And lighting ('atmosphere' settings), define time-cycles, etc.
Cryptic can't do the same for a mission: they have to actually create new surroundings, each time. Sure, they can re-use some assets (like the odd console, here or there), but essentially it needs to be new. It's like ppl who are always talking about 'modular' bridges Cryptic should introduce; yeah, no, doesn't work that way: it would look either rather forced and/or not be seamless. Ground missions need countless interaction points, and a proper progression flow. Even space missons need programmed waves of NPC's, scripted events on fail/success, one or two mini games, etc. And, oh yeah, it all needs to amount to an entertaining story. With voice-overs.
Cryptic has an entire team, of course. So, it likely doesn't take them months. But coordination takes time too: each person involved already needs to know what the other is doing, and when what needs to be finished when. Everything pretty much needs to be meticulously planned, beforehand. And Cryptic is no doubt far less blonde than I am, LOL; but people really shouldn't make the mistake of thinking creating STO missions is easy, merely because it *looks* simple.
there's also the matter of different standards for Foundry missions and professionally made missions, you expect better quality from professionally made mission then from Foundry missions when it comes to things like map builds. Sure you can probably do Foundry mission in few hours but it won't be that good, but a good Foundry mission needs a lot of testing and editing. I once spent a better part of an hour simply placing 2 forcefield assets just right.
there's also the matter of different standards for Foundry missions and professionally made missions, you expect better quality from professionally made mission then from Foundry missions when it comes to things like map builds. Sure you can probably do Foundry mission in few hours but it won't be that good, but a good Foundry mission needs a lot of testing and editing. I once spent a better part of an hour simply placing 2 forcefield assets just right.
Visually, the professional missions are better, but where Foundry has both better and worse than pros, is in the writing and story/mission design. some of the Foundry missions are flat better written and 'constructed' in terms of plot, than what Cryptic turns out, but a whole lot of them are outright worse, and it's hard to sort the 'wheat from the chaff'.
Yeah I meant the mechanical stuff like map building, as those are easier to judge objectively. Story is something that there's a lot of subjectivity involved and a story that works for one person might not work for another.
> @baddmoonrizin said: > Foundry missions also use premade assets already available. New missions tend to use new maps and assets that need development and design time.
Plus, generally, the new missions integrate voice work, which takes more time
You can as many explanation as you can, but it all comes down to:
"THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR"
The game in and of itself is DEAD - Meaning they are going to spend little as possible on new FREE content, as they did away with that years ago. It all comes down now to profit via lockboxes & key sales.
CStore ships are as pricey as ever and they are few & far between, but they will not invest in things for this game that is going to take production cost, they are keeping that to the minimum as possible.
When was the last time have you seen a KDF only expansion, with new missions and maps - or for that matter what was the reason behind the Romulan Mini-faction being multi-factional and not their own entity. Simple, it comes down to money - That is why there isn't a Romulan only Starbase, because it takes time and money to produce new content.
> @azrael605 said: > > @markhawkman said: > > stark2k wrote: » > > > > You can as many explanation as you can, but it all comes down to: > > > > "THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR" > > > > > > > > To be fair this is the entire reason the videogames industry exists. > > Also the TV industry, the Movie industry, the automobile industry, the fashion industry, and basically every industry that has or does exist on this Earth.
> @azrael605 said:
> > @markhawkman said:
> > stark2k wrote: »
> >
> > You can as many explanation as you can, but it all comes down to:
> >
> > "THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR"
> >
> >
> >
> > To be fair this is the entire reason the videogames industry exists.
>
> Also the TV industry, the Movie industry, the automobile industry, the fashion industry, and basically every industry that has or does exist on this Earth.
Except the charity industry.
You forgot your sarcasm tag
- 99% of phone calls from "charities" are scams where 80% or more of your donations go to "administrative expenses" instead of helping people
- Many of the larger charities pay their CEO and other management way too much.
Always look at the admin expenses for a charity, and if possible at more than one charity ratings site for them.
I give a fair amount to charity, but only after doing my homework.
As I said before "that'll do" is the general approach to the game.
I think this comment cuts right to the core. Cryptic has gotten really good at what it does, which is knowing what people will pay for. So their new content model has been streamlined for just that, why write quality missions and develop a new arc when they can generate cash with a single FE, a que or two, a rep system and a let people gamble for a ship in a lockbox? I don't have a problem with a company doing that. What I can't understand, and the point of my OP, is why are so many players OK with that and get so vocal when people ask for more content? It's like the Sky is falling... OMG THEY CAN'T DO MISSIONS, ARE YOU CRAZY? DO YOU WANT TO BANKRUPT THIS COMPANY!!! When really the perspective of people asking these questions is really no I don't want to bankrupt the company, but I want this to be the game possible, not the most profitable possible.
I think this comment cuts right to the core. Cryptic has gotten really good at what it does, which is knowing what people will pay for. So their new content model has been streamlined for just that, why write quality missions and develop a new arc when they can generate cash with a single FE, a que or two, a rep system and a let people gamble for a ship in a lockbox? I don't have a problem with a company doing that. What I can't understand, and the point of my OP, is why are so many players OK with that and get so vocal when people ask for more content? It's like the Sky is falling... OMG THEY CAN'T DO MISSIONS, ARE YOU CRAZY? DO YOU WANT TO BANKRUPT THIS COMPANY!!! When really the perspective of people asking these questions is really no I don't want to bankrupt the company, but I want this to be the game possible, not the most profitable possible.
Maybe it's just my faulty nostalgic memory, but Cryptic seemed to care more about the game-play before it went F2P and they had to crank out lock-boxes constantly to keep the game running. You have to admit that if they had a stable monthly subscriber base they would probably put more emphasis on the game-play. Now they only feel the need to make enough content for players to justify buying a new starship to drive through it.
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
As I said before "that'll do" is the general approach to the game.
I think this comment cuts right to the core. Cryptic has gotten really good at what it does, which is knowing what people will pay for. So their new content model has been streamlined for just that, why write quality missions and develop a new arc when they can generate cash with a single FE, a que or two, a rep system and a let people gamble for a ship in a lockbox? I don't have a problem with a company doing that. What I can't understand, and the point of my OP, is why are so many players OK with that and get so vocal when people ask for more content? It's like the Sky is falling... OMG THEY CAN'T DO MISSIONS, ARE YOU CRAZY? DO YOU WANT TO BANKRUPT THIS COMPANY!!! When really the perspective of people asking these questions is really no I don't want to bankrupt the company, but I want this to be the game possible, not the most profitable possible.
Because a significant part of the forum population here sees gameplay as something they want to "get over with" as fast and easy as possible. They are getting exactly what they want.
I think this comment cuts right to the core. Cryptic has gotten really good at what it does, which is knowing what people will pay for. So their new content model has been streamlined for just that, why write quality missions and develop a new arc when they can generate cash with a single FE, a que or two, a rep system and a let people gamble for a ship in a lockbox? I don't have a problem with a company doing that. What I can't understand, and the point of my OP, is why are so many players OK with that and get so vocal when people ask for more content? It's like the Sky is falling... OMG THEY CAN'T DO MISSIONS, ARE YOU CRAZY? DO YOU WANT TO BANKRUPT THIS COMPANY!!! When really the perspective of people asking these questions is really no I don't want to bankrupt the company, but I want this to be the game possible, not the most profitable possible.
Maybe it's just my faulty nostalgic memory, but Cryptic seemed to care more about the game-play before it went F2P and they had to crank out lock-boxes constantly to keep the game running. You have to admit that if they had a stable monthly subscriber base they would probably put more emphasis on the game-play. Now they only feel the need to make enough content for players to justify buying a new starship to drive through it.
Unless your game's initials spell "WOW," a "stable monthly subscriber base" won't even keep the lights on at the office. And yes, it's just nostalgia to pretend otherwise.
On the other hand, in many games the item store/summon stuff and the gameplay interact in significant ways that support each other, even to the point where content and items designed to go with it are released together. But since Cryptic caters to the "get it over with" contingent, STO content is mostly something to just "drive through" as you say and it doesn't matter much what you're driving. The anniversary ship coming with the 4th console for the C-Store ship set is about the only place I can think of where the content interacts with store purchases at all.
Id still like to see a series spanning the eras from enterprise to the first six movies to ds9 and maybe end on a mission series featuring Patric stewart as admiral picard.
This "legacy series" could give us an excuse to get some t6 tng ships and equipt. It lets us get the late 23rd century ship interiors from the movies and some closure before we go max warp in to discovery.
I could see no real issue with adding to the c-store a set of side-mission packs, though what kind of rewards would be available thru such missions would be something to take into account. More ways of supporting the game is always nice, though things like main-story missions should be free.
Honestly I could go for a sub fee just not the typical static 15 dollar per month sub fee you see in wow, but something more like a sliding scale sub that you get different rewards based on what amount you sub at. Maybe with a starting sub of 5 dollars a month to start with, and then in five dollar increments you get a different set of rewards.
Because a significant part of the forum population here sees gameplay as something they want to "get over with" as fast and easy as possible. They are getting exactly what they want.
I really agree with this, but usually in game with a "get it over with" attitude there is a viable endgame or PVP to get too. STO has never really gotten PVP right, and the main reason is they could never balance the powers of the classes. So now in PVP you have powers that work way differently than they do in PVE, the PVP community used to be very large and were very vocal about they state of PVP. If STO was on it's current path and had a good PVP system, I'd be OK with that.
Comments
As I said before "that'll do" is the general approach to the game.
Surprisingly, I successfully completed 2x Gon'cra BZ in the last two days (queues have been remarkably filled anyway, as of late). But the BZ is an unmitigated mess, no doubt. I just go there for the salvage. And even if you *do* win the zone, half the time they don't even pay you the 3 promomatter containers (not that I need those any more, but still).
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
Oh? And are you a professional Environmental Artist?
There's a dfifference between what people can do in the Foundry and what Cryptic (Or any other game maker) can do. Foundry authors are only able to use existing assets. Cryptic's been making brand new assets on a regular basis. They're not just using the frickin' StarCraft Map Editor you know. It takes time to not only make everything, but to make sure it actually FUNCTIONS as it should. And lets not forget the cutscenes too. One bit of code out of place and it goes boom. Foundry Authors have it easy as they don't have to mess with code.
The ultimate question really is... Do you want it done fast or do you want it done right? Frankly I'd prefer they take their time to make sure its high quality rather than settle for what could amount to a fetch quest or a glorified Patrol. If they wanted quick and easy, they could just bring back the old Exploration System and let us recover artifacts from the Third Borg Dynasty.
I probably wouldn't put it in those harsh terms, but yeah, you're right. I don't make Foundry missions, but I *do* make maps for GTA V, for example. You know how long it took me to finish my last mansion? Over 2 months! And why? Because it's hard. It's like the Foundry, with predefined assets. You can't just slap a few things together, though: it needs to look good as well. You need to create 'paths' (for peds to walk in), and assorted scripted events. And lighting ('atmosphere' settings), define time-cycles, etc.
Cryptic can't do the same for a mission: they have to actually create new surroundings, each time. Sure, they can re-use some assets (like the odd console, here or there), but essentially it needs to be new. It's like ppl who are always talking about 'modular' bridges Cryptic should introduce; yeah, no, doesn't work that way: it would look either rather forced and/or not be seamless. Ground missions need countless interaction points, and a proper progression flow. Even space missons need programmed waves of NPC's, scripted events on fail/success, one or two mini games, etc. And, oh yeah, it all needs to amount to an entertaining story. With voice-overs.
Cryptic has an entire team, of course. So, it likely doesn't take them months. But coordination takes time too: each person involved already needs to know what the other is doing, and when what needs to be finished when. Everything pretty much needs to be meticulously planned, beforehand. And Cryptic is no doubt far less blonde than I am, LOL; but people really shouldn't make the mistake of thinking creating STO missions is easy, merely because it *looks* simple.
Yeah I meant the mechanical stuff like map building, as those are easier to judge objectively. Story is something that there's a lot of subjectivity involved and a story that works for one person might not work for another.
> Foundry missions also use premade assets already available. New missions tend to use new maps and assets that need development and design time.
Plus, generally, the new missions integrate voice work, which takes more time
"THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR"
The game in and of itself is DEAD - Meaning they are going to spend little as possible on new FREE content, as they did away with that years ago. It all comes down now to profit via lockboxes & key sales.
CStore ships are as pricey as ever and they are few & far between, but they will not invest in things for this game that is going to take production cost, they are keeping that to the minimum as possible.
When was the last time have you seen a KDF only expansion, with new missions and maps - or for that matter what was the reason behind the Romulan Mini-faction being multi-factional and not their own entity. Simple, it comes down to money - That is why there isn't a Romulan only Starbase, because it takes time and money to produce new content.
My character Tsin'xing
> > @markhawkman said:
> > stark2k wrote: »
> >
> > You can as many explanation as you can, but it all comes down to:
> >
> > "THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR"
> >
> >
> >
> > To be fair this is the entire reason the videogames industry exists.
>
> Also the TV industry, the Movie industry, the automobile industry, the fashion industry, and basically every industry that has or does exist on this Earth.
Except the charity industry.
You forgot your sarcasm tag
- 99% of phone calls from "charities" are scams where 80% or more of your donations go to "administrative expenses" instead of helping people
- Many of the larger charities pay their CEO and other management way too much.
Always look at the admin expenses for a charity, and if possible at more than one charity ratings site for them.
I give a fair amount to charity, but only after doing my homework.
I think this comment cuts right to the core. Cryptic has gotten really good at what it does, which is knowing what people will pay for. So their new content model has been streamlined for just that, why write quality missions and develop a new arc when they can generate cash with a single FE, a que or two, a rep system and a let people gamble for a ship in a lockbox? I don't have a problem with a company doing that. What I can't understand, and the point of my OP, is why are so many players OK with that and get so vocal when people ask for more content? It's like the Sky is falling... OMG THEY CAN'T DO MISSIONS, ARE YOU CRAZY? DO YOU WANT TO BANKRUPT THIS COMPANY!!! When really the perspective of people asking these questions is really no I don't want to bankrupt the company, but I want this to be the game possible, not the most profitable possible.
Maybe it's just my faulty nostalgic memory, but Cryptic seemed to care more about the game-play before it went F2P and they had to crank out lock-boxes constantly to keep the game running. You have to admit that if they had a stable monthly subscriber base they would probably put more emphasis on the game-play. Now they only feel the need to make enough content for players to justify buying a new starship to drive through it.
Unless your game's initials spell "WOW," a "stable monthly subscriber base" won't even keep the lights on at the office. And yes, it's just nostalgia to pretend otherwise.
On the other hand, in many games the item store/summon stuff and the gameplay interact in significant ways that support each other, even to the point where content and items designed to go with it are released together. But since Cryptic caters to the "get it over with" contingent, STO content is mostly something to just "drive through" as you say and it doesn't matter much what you're driving. The anniversary ship coming with the 4th console for the C-Store ship set is about the only place I can think of where the content interacts with store purchases at all.
This "legacy series" could give us an excuse to get some t6 tng ships and equipt. It lets us get the late 23rd century ship interiors from the movies and some closure before we go max warp in to discovery.
Honestly I could go for a sub fee just not the typical static 15 dollar per month sub fee you see in wow, but something more like a sliding scale sub that you get different rewards based on what amount you sub at. Maybe with a starting sub of 5 dollars a month to start with, and then in five dollar increments you get a different set of rewards.
Because a significant part of the forum population here sees gameplay as something they want to "get over with" as fast and easy as possible. They are getting exactly what they want.
I really agree with this, but usually in game with a "get it over with" attitude there is a viable endgame or PVP to get too. STO has never really gotten PVP right, and the main reason is they could never balance the powers of the classes. So now in PVP you have powers that work way differently than they do in PVE, the PVP community used to be very large and were very vocal about they state of PVP. If STO was on it's current path and had a good PVP system, I'd be OK with that.