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Why are calls for more content not better received.

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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    Looking at the other side and pointing out "They got this", "They got that". They got it better, easier, and fancier. That is envy. Envy is not becoming of you. Nor of any warrior. It is pathetic.


    Zactly! Besides, the grass is always greener on the other side (well, on our Rom side things literally *are* greener, LOL). Seriously, though, it's rather amusing I myself, for instance, tend to think the Klink always get the better-looking stuff. :P The Ferasan Slithus Escort leaps to mind. The Klink get the awesome looking Lethean Oniros Pilot Escort; us Roms, we just get a flying toilet brush. The Klink get superior Lethean Disruptor weps; us Roms get lame Plasma beams I wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole. Etc.

    Not jelly at all, really; just mildly amused to hear Klingons hear 'the others' always get the good stuff. ;) Honestly, the grass on the Klink side is plenty green.
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  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 3,156 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    where2r1 wrote: »
    Looking at the other side and pointing out "They got this", "They got that". They got it better, easier, and fancier. That is envy. Envy is not becoming of you. Nor of any warrior. It is pathetic.

    Figure out what it is that is inside you that you can not let this stuff go. It is not a personal thing. It is not. This is a game. These are just toys. Toys someone is making money off of.

    Community is about having heart about things we have in common. It is about having interactions with other people who think like you or have your interest...or, in our case, want to be a Klingon.

    Do you want a bunch of passionless people over here making Alts? People pretending, only caring about Contraband and Dil or a fancy ship, just so we can say: "population"? I don't. That is how the Romulan faction got destroyed...Scimitar.

    thing is, it's not what I want, it's what cryptic engineered through management of the game. The KDF faction used to be one of the most 'alive' factions in the game. It was intentionally neglected into the state it is today. That soulless points-chaser you describe? that's their chosen market. That is their targeted demographic, whether they realize or recognize this or not, that is the 'whale' they're hunting. It's how they do business, it's the business model they've chosen for themselves, it's why Fed players don't get their exploration or diplomacy and why every mission's space content is rigged for Beam Fire At Will from a cruiser. (and why the only active queues are either offering the next OP item, or set up to be maximum predictable DPS races like Infected Space or Crystalline Catastrophe).

    Cryptic started (as in began) with a great foundation, a decent combat system, and a layout/outline they either could not, or would not, support. When you run through the OLDER Klingon Defense Force content, it doesn't play like the starting levels of a Fed. elements like Cloaking actually have application in that older content, the writing is better and more solid, the chain of logic more consistent. Most of it predates 2011. we didn't get the 1-20 missions until Legacy of Romulus. while there are neat bits to those missions, you're still weighted down by taking your orders, effectively, from Starfleet Intelligence. There are many variations they could have done, and if they had resources, might have done, or if they would 'elevate' some of the better Foundry work and offered choices or options beyond "Follow the railroad".

    But the push at Cryptic has been "Neglect, then Homogenize, then neglect some more".

    You could get exactly the same content with only one faction, (FEd) and as an offline single-player cartridge game, for a fraction of what it must cost to keep this game online.

    There's a lot of potential in the base build of the game, but they're doing nothing with it you couldn't do with a single-player action shooter game with a third person perspective.

    STO feels to me like it's half a game and stuck in development hell, or perpetual Beta, with a lot of abandoned game modes and content just cluttering it up and nowhere near the manpower or funding necessary to get off that stick, and it's been eight years in that condition.
    I always enjoy reading your no-nonsense posts. The points you make are spot on, even if sometimes they're not what people want to hear.
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  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,661 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    Calling for more mission content is rather pointless when making a new mission can take months, and there is really nothing Cryptic can do to eliminate the basic time barrier.

    Months? rofl. Thats hilarious. I thought you were joking at first. Anyways, it shouldnt take that long. Not even half of that. Not even a fraction of that. If they need months to make a mission, something is really wrong in the team. Probably they need more people?. Some foundry missions are done in less than a week and are far better than many many episodes...

    I've seen 6 weeks as the time, but I doubt there are foundry missions "done in less than a week and are far better" than modern episodes. Please list 4 or 5 of them to prove you're not just making that up.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    Calling for more mission content is rather pointless when making a new mission can take months, and there is really nothing Cryptic can do to eliminate the basic time barrier.

    Months? rofl. Thats hilarious. I thought you were joking at first. Anyways, it shouldnt take that long. Not even half of that. Not even a fraction of that. If they need months to make a mission, something is really wrong in the team. Probably they need more people?. Some foundry missions are done in less than a week and are far better than many many episodes...

    I've seen 6 weeks as the time, but I doubt there are foundry missions "done in less than a week and are far better" than modern episodes. Please list 4 or 5 of them to prove you're not just making that up.
    It's possible to make a foundry in a week and have it be decent. Better than a Cryptic made FE? good luck with that.
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  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,901 Community Moderator
    Foundry missions also use premade assets already available. New missions tend to use new maps and assets that need development and design time.
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    STO feels to me like it's half a game and stuck in development hell, or perpetual Beta, with a lot of abandoned game modes and content just cluttering it up and nowhere near the manpower or funding necessary to get off that stick, and it's been eight years in that condition.


    At eight years going, another person might say they're doing something right.
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  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
    Ships = money
    Content = no money
    Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 3,156 Arc User
    the only "abandoned" content is the Defera Battlezone.

    Abandoned perhaps by the folks who make the game go perhaps, but certainly not by the players. I was there 6 times today. It has 2 dedicated channels. Players of all levels and abilities go there to either earn marks or test/learn their ground skills vs one of Star Treks most iconic enemies. Always found it odd that one of the few areas of the game that could actually use an expansion and/or revamp gets abandoned, with part of it even walled off.

    Shame there isn't the resources/retained knowledge/man-hours/will/staff/budget to actually improve this popular area (and yes I've read the official response as to why they say they can't). It's content that's used regularly and 8 years later they still haven't got it right.

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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    protoneous wrote: »
    the only "abandoned" content is the Defera Battlezone.

    Abandoned perhaps by the folks who make the game go perhaps, but certainly not by the players. I was there 6 times today. It has 2 dedicated channels. Players of all levels and abilities go there to either earn marks or test/learn their ground skills vs one of Star Treks most iconic enemies. Always found it odd that one of the few areas of the game that could actually use an expansion and/or revamp gets abandoned, with part of it even walled off.

    Shame there isn't the resources/retained knowledge/man-hours/will/staff/budget to actually improve this popular area (and yes I've read the official response as to why they say they can't). It's content that's used regularly and 8 years later they still haven't got it right.
    Defera is no more or less "abandoned" than any other old content. It just appears to be Cryptic's policy to only ever "improve" existing areas if players are too successful in them. I.e. Nukara hards queuefied so people can't invite the whole instance population to help with the same boss fight, or "fixing" the dino tagging strategy of the voth BZ.
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  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 3,156 Arc User
    protoneous wrote: »
    Shame there isn't the resources/retained knowledge/man-hours/will/staff/budget to actually improve this popular area (and yes I've read the official response as to why they say they can't). It's content that's used regularly and 8 years later they still haven't got it right.
    I suspect that if Cryptic ever goes back to the Borg as a major enemy, probably for the last story arc in STO or something, they will scrap Defera and make a new battlezone, since they have talked about how broken defera is, and how the cost to fix it at this point would be greater then just making a new battlezone.
    I suspect by that time it'll be stated there's not enough player interest to merit a new borg battlezone but playable borg cubes will appear in lockboxes, necessitating another EC cap increase. The remaining players will still be re-engineering their gold weapons while working on the latest dilithium only fleet holding and completing the latest reputation and specialization while purchasing new outfits cuz space barbie. Queues will be reduced to red alerts only to improve overall game quality :smile:

  • reafisreafis Member Posts: 147 Arc User
    PVP never really worked from the start, I remember fondly levelling my Klingon main through pretty much just PVP. It was a lot of fun but it wasn't really fair as every battle was 8 feds vs 2-3 Klingons. (Space or Ground)
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    I mean, consider how many times you've fumed and furied over nerfs even when those 'nerfs' were just QC passes to bring something in line with what it was supposed to be doing, instead of what it was released doing?

    They advertise a PvP mode that's pretty much unplayable and certainly not fun for casuals or beginners. doesn't that tick in to your perception on some level-that if they're going to do something, it should be done well, and done well before it's handed off to the player public?


    Well, patrickngo, here's the thing: they're not doing PvP properly, because -- their good intentions despite, perhaps -- the very nature of this casual game makes PvP problematic, always. PvE-ers don't like when their shiny toys get nerfed because of that infamous 1%; and Cryptic -- while some Devs seem PvP-friendly -- can't really afford to put too much energy into PvP, for the same '1% Reason'. Same with Klingons: at times they make an FE, featuring Klingons in it, hyping it up with texts like "New Klingon content!" But we both know Fed is the thing that ppl want. And Cryptic knows it too.

    They simply keep colliding with the reality of things: people want to play Fed, and 'Kirk' around (yes, you can use 'Kirk' as a verb). They tried with the Competitive System. 'I mean, consider how many times you've fumed and furied' over Cryptic offering Comp rep Marks other than doing the Comp queues!? What I got from that is, that, yes, they were honest in their wish to get players to engage in PvP, but were simply confronted with the reality that the vast majority of the players simply doesn't want to. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

    This game is at heart a Fed-oriented, casual game. Yes, we got Roms, but we're still not a real faction; and, if iirc, simply because ppl still, for the most part, want to play Fed (despite Roms being slightly OP). PvP, in that regard, I think, will always remain at odds with the casual nature of this game. And while I respect your enthusiasm for it (and frustration about not seeing it done properly), I don't see how the strained relationship with the casual side of this game (the 99%) will ever prompt Cryptic to make PvP something that's even remotely on equal footing.
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  • orangenee#2931 orangenee Member Posts: 837 Arc User
    There's quite a lot of "that'll do" permeating throughout the game. Cryptic are a bit like British Leyland were sans the strikes.

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  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,661 Arc User

    I've seen 6 weeks as the time, but I doubt there are foundry missions "done in less than a week and are far better" than modern episodes. Please list 4 or 5 of them to prove you're not just making that up.

    No dude, again, 1 week. At most. I know that you want to believe everything cryptic says, it is your "job". But that doesnt mean its true. Not a chance a mission takes more than 1 week, 2 at most to get it done. Now, of course if you have only one guy doing the job.. well, it could take even a whole year. I dont need to prove anything. Its common sense in the moment you have little knowledge about 3d apps, coding, and all that stuff. Obviously you dont.

    Ah, "gut instinct" and "alternative facts" it is then.

    I suppose you're correct that if Cryptic could increase their budget sixfold to hire 6 separate teams of artists, writers, developers, and a few more managers then those teams working in parallel could deliver 6 loosely connected episodes in 6 weeks, each with slightly different styles for the writing and art, and possibly with limited overlap in the voice acting.

    Completely impractical of course, since STO would also need a billionaire to donate millions for the extra staff, but sure it could happen.

    Just like if your favorite TV show had a large rotating cast and an unlimited budget it could crank out 364 episodes a year. In theory.
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  • captainkoltarcaptainkoltar Member Posts: 939 Arc User
    [quote]
    Its common sense in the moment youhave little knowledge about 3d apps, coding, and all that stuff. Obviously you dont.
    [/quote]

    If you knew anything about working in a development environment, you'd know that every setup is different, and even if you know the languages used very well, there is absolutely no way to know from the outside how easy/quick it is to work and release stuff within that environment .
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,588 Community Moderator

    But anyways, none of the other bzttlezones really got improvements because they didn't really need them. Defera NEEDS it though, because its literally unfinished, and probably the most bugged out place in the whole game.

    Oh I can think of one that does. The currently pretty much unplayable Gon'cra. It may have been QUITE a while since I was in there, but last time I was it was literally impossible to cap all the zones because instead of how the other battlezones function, with players actually able to prevent a recap, the capture zones seem to be on a hard timer and flip on their own even if there's a player there. And you can forget about capping the center three because apparently you can only get a certain amount of the way before it resets on you.

    If anyone's been there recently and can either confirm or deny this is still true, please feel free. But until then I'm saying that Defera is not the only battlezone that needs help.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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