"queue azreal to tell us all how because he won all his ships everyone else can win all their ships too"
Actually lobes I get my ships with EC, and yes anyone can do it that way, many likely far easier than I can with my self & RL imposed "no real money spent" rule. I already have the Walker class (cheapest of the 3 DSC ships) and am presently working on the Sarcophagus, saving Crossfield for last.
I thought you'd posted previously that you'd won a load of ships from LockBoxes. I must've confused you with someone else, so that's my bad... My apologies...
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Some ideas I've had, and a refinement of my previously mentioned ideas:
I'd suggest a revamp of the currencies, making Latinum a Premium currency which can only be purchased direct from Cryptic with cash, and with a Latinum Store of goodies which are character bind on Purchase. By all means keep the current dil to zen exchange so that some stuff is grindable, but by having stuff (say stuff like the Lobi ships) which is literally a cash-only purchase, it would prevent any kind of flipping on the exchange, meaning that players can't grind it and would have to buy it outright, and by being character bind on purchase, it would mean that SpaceRich can't buy it and flip it on the exchange for EC, thus the items would always maintain their desirability/exclusivity as Prestige Cash Items.
Lock Boxes are to be re-branded as Lobi Boxes, with set Lobi Crystals every time, to be tiered at normal, rare, and very rare.
Normal requires a Master Key to open, and contains 3 Lobi Crystals, and a random selection of items, equalling 3 uncommon, 2 rare, and one very rare item.
Rare requires a Medium Master Key to open, and will contain 6 Lobi Crystals, and a random selection of items, equalling 3 rare, 2 very rare and one ultra rare item.
Very rare requires a Large Master Key to open, and will contain 9 Lobi Crystals, and a random selection of items equalling 3 very rare, two ultra rare, and one epic item.
Lobi Boxes will not contain ships. Lobi Boxes will contain themed items such as weapons, traits, boosts etc, and will be a from a pre-determined (and advertized on Cryptic's homepage) list, and all items can be exchange flippable as is currently the case.
Other assorted purchases should be available such as cross-faction boffs. Either as exchange officers, who will wear the host faction's uniforms, or, as per the current situation with Romulan Embassy boffs, who are limited to Romulan visuals. These will include all F2P playable and boff-selectable races.
Universal boffs, who can be trained with ground skills for any discipline (wouldn't work in space, as the ship wouldn't necessarily accept their combined skills, but on the ground... Rock 'n' Roll...)
Cross faction uniforms unlocks, for example, a Federation-aligned Romulan, will be able to wear a Starfleet uniform.
Worf's sash to be purchasable (cash only) at any time.
House T'Kuvma ridges as a selectable option for Klingons (but only Klingons, not aliengen 'klingons')
Universal Space-Frames at Tiers 1-6, in escort, cruiser and science capabilities, which will allow the player to use ship components from any of their faction's ships (automatic scaling of part sizes) For example: Sovereign saucer with Miranda rollbar and struts with Rhode Island nacelles. Hull strength would be determined by the Tier of the frame, not the native strength of the 'highest Tier component', ergo, the example ship, if at T1, would only have the hull strength of a Miranda, not a Sovereign. Space Frames would be a cash only purchase.
In addition to existing price packs, Zen to be buyable singly. I think the current price packs are good, but they're also too out of line with a ship's zen cost, meaning multiples of a pack must be purchased, which then leaves players with a Zen surplus. Allowing someone to buy Zen singles to 'make up the difference', would allow people to buy exactly what they need for each purchase. Frequent small cumulative sales, tend to add up to more than occasional large spends.
(Having seen a huge number of default boff away teams on Nimbus and Kobalistan, I know some of these customization options wouldn't appeal to some, but I think they would still have appeal for others... )
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
And another point to consider; unlike some games where lockbox-equivilents can only be opened by expenditure of real world currency, it's entirely possible for an STO player to open lockboxes without ever spending a cent/pence/phennig/yen/etc. simply by using the Dilithium Exchange to convert their Refined Dilithium to Zen to purchase a Key or buying a Key from the Exchange using Energy Credits.
^^^^^ this here
as long as they can show them that no real money is needed (and age verification can be done) I don't think STO has to worry
but there are lots of other games & phone games that do
Transformers Earth Wars sells bundles or boxes for $9.99 with random rewards NOW THAT there is gambling
I'm sure other games have a similar system with real currency where the rewards are random hence gambling in the legal sense.
And another point to consider; unlike some games where lockbox-equivilents can only be opened by expenditure of real world currency, it's entirely possible for an STO player to open lockboxes without ever spending a cent/pence/phennig/yen/etc. simply by using the Dilithium Exchange to convert their Refined Dilithium to Zen to purchase a Key or buying a Key from the Exchange using Energy Credits.
^^^^^ this here
as long as they can show them that no real money is needed (and age verification can be done) I don't think STO has to worry
but there are lots of other games & phone games that do
Transformers Earth Wars sells bundles or boxes for $9.99 with random rewards NOW THAT there is gambling
I'm sure other games have a similar system with real currency where the rewards are random hence gambling in the legal sense.
Wether or not real money is needed, is not the issue: The issue hinges on if the person actually Gets Something for their Money and Gets Exactly What They Paid For. That it is a 'reasonable opportunity' rather than an 'utterly random gamble'
Age verification won't work with this game, for reasons mentioned above and up-thread: People who have ground everything for free for the past eight years (either through choice or necessity) aren't going to pay to continue doing what they've been doing for free (because they either can't, or won't want to) Parents could create an account for a child, so age verification, at the moment, isn't a fool-proof system. And that's something which those who want to bring in these anti-gambling statutes, would latch onto and focus on as a point of leverage.
That's why I believe that Cryptic's best bet (and this would no doubt apply to their other games, not just STO) would be to pre-empt any such potential restriction, by revising and rebranding the LockBoxes into a format like I suggest above, where people would be guaranteed X Content at X Price Point.
I dread to think what impact losing the European market would have on STO's profitability. It was made F2P because P2P wasn't working, so going back to such a system, again, wouldn't be good for STO's profitability...
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
There is in my mind no excuse to not do this (and I do wonder if the folks who decided that we don't need to know the odds would happily make a wager with their own money with a similar lack of knowledge). By way of example, consider the cosmetics-only boxes found in Path of Exile (reference): the odds of getting a given rarity of item are clearly stated (I believe once that is 'decided', the actual item is equally likely to be any of X specified items of that rarity).
I'm fine with lootboxes as long as the odds are disclosed, but I wouldn't consider this to be adequate disclosure. Just because items are of equal rarity doesn't meant their of equal value. Here's a quote from an article that I've posted before:
China began enforcing similar rules for online game operators in May of this year. At that time, when popular game makers like Blizzard complied, they showed how vaguely written rules about loot-box odds can be taken advantage of to leave players in the dark. In Blizzard's case, the company simply announced that each of its loot boxes is guaranteed to contain one "rare"-class item, while players have a 1-in-5.5 chance to earn "epic"-class items or a 1-in-13.5 chance to earn "legendary"-class items.
It seems that what companies are doing is complying with the letter of the law, but not the spirit. They're exploiting the fact that the rules are not clearly defined.
P.S. Today, I learned that Sophlogimo and Mustrumridcully are German; I would have never guessed.
to allow my primary form of entertainment, to be shutdown thanks to some BigBrother-Knows-Best do-gooder in Hawaii, without at least trying to suggest ways Cryptic could modify the game to be in compliance with such potential changes.
If kael never passes on my suggestions, or if Cryptic choose not to use them, and go another way, then fine. But I'll at least be able to tell myself that I Did My Part to help. That I Tried to stop it from happening, rather than just passively sitting back, letting it happen, and then throwing some outraged tantrum afterwards, demanding to know why the game doesn't load anymore, and the lights have been turned off...
/RantOver #NotDirectedAtYouPersonally
I'm fair certain Cryptic/PWE are not in dire need for our advice on the matter. If not Cryptic directly, then PWE certainly has tons of high-priced lawyers working for them (you know, the kind that concocted the lock box system to begin with). I'm sure they'll figure something out.
As much as people want to hate on the person or persons who kicked this all off, they did have a valid point.
An overpriced price AAA title (£50+ for multiplayer focussed game is insane given how short a lifespan they can have) shouldn't have gamble boxes for cash built into it. If they have to be there then it should only be for ingame currency.
F2P games were using the gamble box model fairly well prior to that but its the big publishers that have to answer to shareholders seeing it as a way of making bank that took it too far.
UBI filtered cash shop stuff into the AC series although they seem to have got ahead of things and done the ingame option, not played origins. Shadow of war focusses more on cash boxes with only bottom tier for game muny, only recently picked that up on gmg for under £30.
The only surprising thing about the debacle is that EA have only just been slapped on the wrists for it. Probably because its star wars rather than one of their many mobile games. Whats happened to them is poetic justice after all the studios they bought, milked and killed.
I won't shed any tears if the lock boxes have to go.
Would you shed any tears if STO itself was to have to go, because Cryptic deemed it, and other games like Neverwinter (which I presume also uses LockBoxes) no longer profitable?
The fear which I have, is that without LockBoxes, without the European market, it wouldn't be
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
to allow my primary form of entertainment, to be shutdown thanks to some BigBrother-Knows-Best do-gooder in Hawaii, without at least trying to suggest ways Cryptic could modify the game to be in compliance with such potential changes.
If kael never passes on my suggestions, or if Cryptic choose not to use them, and go another way, then fine. But I'll at least be able to tell myself that I Did My Part to help. That I Tried to stop it from happening, rather than just passively sitting back, letting it happen, and then throwing some outraged tantrum afterwards, demanding to know why the game doesn't load anymore, and the lights have been turned off...
/RantOver #NotDirectedAtYouPersonally
I'm fair certain Cryptic/PWE are not in dire need for our advice on the matter.
Given that they think things like changing the Queue UI are good ideas, I think they need all the help they can get
If not Cryptic directly, then PWE certainly has tons of high-priced lawyers working for them (you know, the kind that concocted the lock box system to begin with). I'm sure they'll figure something out.
When there was a speculation thread soliciting thoughts on how people thought the Discovery ships would be introduced, I was the only person who called the spore drive mechanic, being linked to how the Crossfield uses the transwarp menu. It's not an idle boast, to say that my ideas have merit, and are worthy of consideration, even though I'm 'just a player'...
And yes, they may indeed figure something out, but as I said above, at least I'll be able to tell myself that I Did My Part to help, rather than just passively sitting back, letting it happen, and then throwing some outraged tantrum afterwards, demanding to know why the game doesn't load anymore, and the lights have been turned off
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
As much as people want to hate on the person or persons who kicked this all off, they did have a valid point.
An overpriced price AAA title (£50+ for multiplayer focussed game is insane given how short a lifespan they can have) shouldn't have gamble boxes for cash built into it. If they have to be there then it should only be for ingame currency.
F2P games were using the gamble box model fairly well prior to that but its the big publishers that have to answer to shareholders seeing it as a way of making bank that took it too far.
UBI filtered cash shop stuff into the AC series although they seem to have got ahead of things and done the ingame option, not played origins. Shadow of war focusses more on cash boxes with only bottom tier for game muny, only recently picked that up on gmg for under £30.
The only surprising thing about the debacle is that EA have only just been slapped on the wrists for it. Probably because its star wars rather than one of their many mobile games. Whats happened to them is poetic justice after all the studios they bought, milked and killed.
No, they didn't. It's just BigBrother nanny-state do-as-I-say-because-ism. It might be 'an accurately expressed concern' from an intellectual standpoint, but that doesn't make it, or their goal 'valid'. It does, however, make it Very capable of TRIBBLE up the game we all love. So for the third time; Do you want this game to close down?
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I find it a little humorous how some people think it would be a giant TRIBBLE slap to cryptic if they would have to publish the odds for their lockboxes. Let's be real...multiple tests have been done and the information is accessible too those that give a TRIBBLE. Everyone knows the odds are bad... less than 1%.
I find it a little humorous how some people think it would be a giant **** slap to cryptic if they would have to publish the odds for their lockboxes. Let's be real...multiple tests have been done and the information is accessible too those that give a ****. Everyone knows the odds are bad... less than 1%.
If publishing the odds of the LockBoxes would be enough to keep things as they are, I'd be all for it. Those who want to insist that it's gambling, I don't think they will be. Playing Devil's Advocate, I can see why they would say that just publishing the odds wouldn't be good enough, just as they would also say age verification wouldn't work, because it wouldn't be 100% fool-proof, so it wouldn't be good enough... Make no mistake, they want to get games like this shut down, because they think they know best, and think that their 'concern' means things need to be changed, rather than people just having responsibility for their actions. You enjoy playing this game, don't you? Do you think it's funny that it could potentially be shut down over this issue? Is that also 'a little humorous'?
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
My hope is that F2P games come out the other side relatively unscathed, perhaps with a better system applied to the gamble boxes even if that is a bit more transparency over how good or bad the odds are.
Mobile "games" and full price AAA publishers that use gamble boxes to generate income deserve all they have coming to them.
Your third paragraph, makes no such statement. You simply discussed the F2P games using boxes, and that some took it too far. that doesn't equate to you not wanting tthe game to get shut down. In fact, without you making a definitive statement, it reads like you would like the game to be shut down, because the game's format (F2P and boxes) would allign with those who you have said 'took things too far'.
I'm not trying to be argumentative here, just trying to figure out your actual opinion of the subject, with how it relates to the future of this game.
My hope is that F2P games come out the other side relatively unscathed, perhaps with a better system applied to the gamble boxes even if that is a bit more transparency over how good or bad the odds are.
Mobile "games" and full price AAA publishers that use gamble boxes to generate income deserve all they have coming to them.
Great. Please stop calling them 'gamble boxes', it's a dishonest title, and the more the title gets thrown around (by people as a whole) the easier it will be for those who would get the game (and games like it) shut down for using them, to point to evidence that players view them as such. I had to resort to French yesterday to make the nature of the boxes clear, I'd rather not have to repeat myself
I don't want this game to shut down, you don't want this game shut down, so let's not give those who would, any additional ammunition Do you have any thoughts on how the boxes could be rebranded to not fall under a definition of 'gambling'? Or any other potential ways of bringing money into the game which could get implemented? As I said above, these ideas may never get passed on, or considered, but we would at least then have the knowledge that we tried, rather than merely capitulating
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
The process of using money for a chance at something isn't gambling?
Maybe you prefer the term "idiot tax"
*sigh*
Do you think you're being clever? Is your tone not coming across as intended through writing, or are you just going out of your way to be a A hole?
I already highlighted the difference between 'gambling' and 'opportunities to win'over the page. Given that you're begging the question, I'm not repeating myself to address it.
Either add something constructive to the conversation, or stop trying to enable them geting this game shut down, and go away.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
It's the internet, not a **** kindergarten! I'm sorry that these kids are incapable of delaying gratification, and that their parents don't give them the attention they need, or that DaboMan892 can't stop himself clicking, but don't try and gaslight me, that there's any need to impugn on everyone else's entertainment! Which is exactly what legislation on this matter, is very likely going to do.
Just because Benefits Dave down the road is an alcoholic, is no reason why the whole town has to go dry, just so he can't fell off the wagon and drink something!
Why are you defending this?? I repeat my question: Do you want this game to close?
There are larger concerns than you or I or even STO. But do I want STO to shutdown? No. However, I do recognize that as an elected Democratic member of the House of Representatives, Christopher Lee is in fact doing his job which is to protect American citizens in general. Ideally that is what a public official is suppose to do (without being corrupted).
If EA did not make lootboxes so integrated into the progression system in Star Wars Battlefront 2 to the point where it is predatory in nature, then this would have been a non-issue. It became so much of a debacle that news outlets like CNBC, Forbes, CNN, and the BBC brought the issue to light to the general public.
You can blame whoever you like...
- EA for creating this issue to begin with.
- News outlets for bringing this issue to the attention of the mass public.
- Politicians and public officials (who are not elected by the general public depending on the country) that want to prevent similar occurrences from happening again in the future.
There is nothing you can really about it other than wait and see what the outcome will be. You can scream and rage all you want if it makes you feel better, but in the end that will have no affect on the outcome. If you live in one of the 4 or 5 US states looking into creating legislation to regulate lootboxes, then you can call / send an email to those politicians involved regarding your concern about how the potential legislation is going to affect STO. But I suspect your concerns will fall on deaf ears.
I know that that's what instigated it. It doesn't matter who/how/what/why the whole bruhaha came into being, I'm more concerned about how it's going to affect the game which we all love (and many other games, which countless other people love).
It's fine that you are concerned
Quote mixup. The above was not posted by me, but by @silverlobes.
Sorry about that, I guess I edited out the wrong user id.
Emotions appear to be running a bit high in here. Let's all take a step back and collect ourselves. Please keep things civil.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
It's the internet, not a **** kindergarten! I'm sorry that these kids are incapable of delaying gratification, and that their parents don't give them the attention they need, or that DaboMan892 can't stop himself clicking, but don't try and gaslight me, that there's any need to impugn on everyone else's entertainment! Which is exactly what legislation on this matter, is very likely going to do.
Just because Benefits Dave down the road is an alcoholic, is no reason why the whole town has to go dry, just so he can't fell off the wagon and drink something!
Why are you defending this?? I repeat my question: Do you want this game to close?
There are larger concerns than you or I or even STO. But do I want STO to shutdown? No. However, I do recognize that as an elected Democratic member of the House of Representatives, Christopher Lee is in fact doing his job which is to protect American citizens in general. Ideally that is what a public official is suppose to do (without being corrupted).
If EA did not make lootboxes so integrated into the progression system in Star Wars Battlefront 2 to the point where it is predatory in nature, then this would have been a non-issue. It became so much of a debacle that news outlets like CNBC, Forbes, CNN, and the BBC brought the issue to light to the general public.
You can blame whoever you like...
- EA for creating this issue to begin with.
- News outlets for bringing this issue to the attention of the mass public.
- Politicians and public officials (who are not elected by the general public depending on the country) that want to prevent similar occurrences from happening again in the future.
There is nothing you can really about it other than wait and see what the outcome will be. You can scream and rage all you want if it makes you feel better, but in the end that will have no affect on the outcome. If you live in one of the 4 or 5 US states looking into creating legislation to regulate lootboxes, then you can call / send an email to those politicians involved regarding your concern about how the potential legislation is going to affect STO. But I suspect your concerns will fall on deaf ears.
And the point which is being missed, is that Christopher Lee does not represent people living outside of America. He is not my democratically elected representative. Nor is he the democratically elected representative of players in Belgium, or Germany. Yet his actions, affect us as well.
Do American citizens actually need 'protecting'? Or should they be allowed the autonomy to make their own decisions and live by the consequences of such? Again, this is not kindergarten...
You're mistaking my attempts to be clear and emphatic (about the points I'm trying to convey) as 'screaming and raging'. The screaming and raging, will come if this nonsense succeeds, and LockBoxes get outlawed in Europe, and if Cryptic either doesn't react, or fails to react in a particular way, and thus has to shut down because it loses a significant section of its playerbase. There will be rage and screams from those unable to play the game any more, and at it's core, will be the frustration of knowing that they did nothing to try and prevent it.
But not me. Sure, I'll be hellishly disappointed, but I'll at least be able to tell myself that I at least made suggestions to my community to try and preserve it.
What have you suggested, which Cryptic may or may not consider?
Have you actually suggested anything constructive at all just been an armchair commentator?
And if what we post here makes no difference to what Cryptic is going to do, then I'm not going to waste my time arguing about it, because that it will make no difference either.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Why bother with how you see it? That's irrelevant, except for your personal spending. What is relevant, however, is what the authorities decide.
And how Cryptic/PWE can react to it.
Were you addressing that to me?
Yes. You make a big (and not invalid) points about some classifications of lockboxes may be unfair or incomplete. But your (or my, or any other player's) assessment is irrelevant. Your ideas about solutions for the very practical problem of "where does the money come from if lockboxes get ruled out", however, may be useful. So why not focus on that?
Because (and as I have literally only just posted, so apologies for the copy/paste response) if what we post here makes no difference to what Cryptic is going to do, then I'm not going to waste my time discussing it, because that it will make no difference either.
I've made my suggestions/recommendations for a way in which Lock Boxes could be revised to not be gambling. I'm not prepared to waste my time defending/discussing those suggestions/recommendations. I've said my piece, I'm satisfied that I've done what I can, so I'm recusing myself from the discussion.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Comments
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Some ideas I've had, and a refinement of my previously mentioned ideas:
I'd suggest a revamp of the currencies, making Latinum a Premium currency which can only be purchased direct from Cryptic with cash, and with a Latinum Store of goodies which are character bind on Purchase. By all means keep the current dil to zen exchange so that some stuff is grindable, but by having stuff (say stuff like the Lobi ships) which is literally a cash-only purchase, it would prevent any kind of flipping on the exchange, meaning that players can't grind it and would have to buy it outright, and by being character bind on purchase, it would mean that SpaceRich can't buy it and flip it on the exchange for EC, thus the items would always maintain their desirability/exclusivity as Prestige Cash Items.
Lock Boxes are to be re-branded as Lobi Boxes, with set Lobi Crystals every time, to be tiered at normal, rare, and very rare.
Normal requires a Master Key to open, and contains 3 Lobi Crystals, and a random selection of items, equalling 3 uncommon, 2 rare, and one very rare item.
Rare requires a Medium Master Key to open, and will contain 6 Lobi Crystals, and a random selection of items, equalling 3 rare, 2 very rare and one ultra rare item.
Very rare requires a Large Master Key to open, and will contain 9 Lobi Crystals, and a random selection of items equalling 3 very rare, two ultra rare, and one epic item.
Lobi Boxes will not contain ships. Lobi Boxes will contain themed items such as weapons, traits, boosts etc, and will be a from a pre-determined (and advertized on Cryptic's homepage) list, and all items can be exchange flippable as is currently the case.
Other assorted purchases should be available such as cross-faction boffs. Either as exchange officers, who will wear the host faction's uniforms, or, as per the current situation with Romulan Embassy boffs, who are limited to Romulan visuals. These will include all F2P playable and boff-selectable races.
Universal boffs, who can be trained with ground skills for any discipline (wouldn't work in space, as the ship wouldn't necessarily accept their combined skills, but on the ground... Rock 'n' Roll...)
Cross faction uniforms unlocks, for example, a Federation-aligned Romulan, will be able to wear a Starfleet uniform.
Worf's sash to be purchasable (cash only) at any time.
House T'Kuvma ridges as a selectable option for Klingons (but only Klingons, not aliengen 'klingons')
Universal Space-Frames at Tiers 1-6, in escort, cruiser and science capabilities, which will allow the player to use ship components from any of their faction's ships (automatic scaling of part sizes) For example: Sovereign saucer with Miranda rollbar and struts with Rhode Island nacelles. Hull strength would be determined by the Tier of the frame, not the native strength of the 'highest Tier component', ergo, the example ship, if at T1, would only have the hull strength of a Miranda, not a Sovereign. Space Frames would be a cash only purchase.
In addition to existing price packs, Zen to be buyable singly. I think the current price packs are good, but they're also too out of line with a ship's zen cost, meaning multiples of a pack must be purchased, which then leaves players with a Zen surplus. Allowing someone to buy Zen singles to 'make up the difference', would allow people to buy exactly what they need for each purchase. Frequent small cumulative sales, tend to add up to more than occasional large spends.
(Having seen a huge number of default boff away teams on Nimbus and Kobalistan, I know some of these customization options wouldn't appeal to some, but I think they would still have appeal for others...
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
as long as they can show them that no real money is needed (and age verification can be done) I don't think STO has to worry
but there are lots of other games & phone games that do
Transformers Earth Wars sells bundles or boxes for $9.99 with random rewards NOW THAT there is gambling
I'm sure other games have a similar system with real currency where the rewards are random hence gambling in the legal sense.
Age verification won't work with this game, for reasons mentioned above and up-thread: People who have ground everything for free for the past eight years (either through choice or necessity) aren't going to pay to continue doing what they've been doing for free (because they either can't, or won't want to) Parents could create an account for a child, so age verification, at the moment, isn't a fool-proof system. And that's something which those who want to bring in these anti-gambling statutes, would latch onto and focus on as a point of leverage.
That's why I believe that Cryptic's best bet (and this would no doubt apply to their other games, not just STO) would be to pre-empt any such potential restriction, by revising and rebranding the LockBoxes into a format like I suggest above, where people would be guaranteed X Content at X Price Point.
I dread to think what impact losing the European market would have on STO's profitability. It was made F2P because P2P wasn't working, so going back to such a system, again, wouldn't be good for STO's profitability...
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I'm fine with lootboxes as long as the odds are disclosed, but I wouldn't consider this to be adequate disclosure. Just because items are of equal rarity doesn't meant their of equal value. Here's a quote from an article that I've posted before:
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/12/apple-now-requires-app-store-games-with-loot-boxes-to-list-odds/
It seems that what companies are doing is complying with the letter of the law, but not the spirit. They're exploiting the fact that the rules are not clearly defined.
P.S. Today, I learned that Sophlogimo and Mustrumridcully are German; I would have never guessed.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
I'm fair certain Cryptic/PWE are not in dire need for our advice on the matter.
An overpriced price AAA title (£50+ for multiplayer focussed game is insane given how short a lifespan they can have) shouldn't have gamble boxes for cash built into it. If they have to be there then it should only be for ingame currency.
F2P games were using the gamble box model fairly well prior to that but its the big publishers that have to answer to shareholders seeing it as a way of making bank that took it too far.
UBI filtered cash shop stuff into the AC series although they seem to have got ahead of things and done the ingame option, not played origins. Shadow of war focusses more on cash boxes with only bottom tier for game muny, only recently picked that up on gmg for under £30.
The only surprising thing about the debacle is that EA have only just been slapped on the wrists for it. Probably because its star wars rather than one of their many mobile games. Whats happened to them is poetic justice after all the studios they bought, milked and killed.
The fear which I have, is that without LockBoxes, without the European market, it wouldn't be
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
When there was a speculation thread soliciting thoughts on how people thought the Discovery ships would be introduced, I was the only person who called the spore drive mechanic, being linked to how the Crossfield uses the transwarp menu. It's not an idle boast, to say that my ideas have merit, and are worthy of consideration, even though I'm 'just a player'...
And yes, they may indeed figure something out, but as I said above, at least I'll be able to tell myself that I Did My Part to help, rather than just passively sitting back, letting it happen, and then throwing some outraged tantrum afterwards, demanding to know why the game doesn't load anymore, and the lights have been turned off
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
My hope is that F2P games come out the other side relatively unscathed, perhaps with a better system applied to the gamble boxes even if that is a bit more transparency over how good or bad the odds are.
Mobile "games" and full price AAA publishers that use gamble boxes to generate income deserve all they have coming to them.
I'm not trying to be argumentative here, just trying to figure out your actual opinion of the subject, with how it relates to the future of this game.
Great. Please stop calling them 'gamble boxes', it's a dishonest title, and the more the title gets thrown around (by people as a whole) the easier it will be for those who would get the game (and games like it) shut down for using them, to point to evidence that players view them as such. I had to resort to French yesterday to make the nature of the boxes clear, I'd rather not have to repeat myself
I don't want this game to shut down, you don't want this game shut down, so let's not give those who would, any additional ammunition
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Maybe you prefer the term "idiot tax"
Do you think you're being clever? Is your tone not coming across as intended through writing, or are you just going out of your way to be a A hole?
I already highlighted the difference between 'gambling' and 'opportunities to win'over the page. Given that you're begging the question, I'm not repeating myself to address it.
Either add something constructive to the conversation, or stop trying to enable them geting this game shut down, and go away.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
There are larger concerns than you or I or even STO. But do I want STO to shutdown? No. However, I do recognize that as an elected Democratic member of the House of Representatives, Christopher Lee is in fact doing his job which is to protect American citizens in general. Ideally that is what a public official is suppose to do (without being corrupted).
If EA did not make lootboxes so integrated into the progression system in Star Wars Battlefront 2 to the point where it is predatory in nature, then this would have been a non-issue. It became so much of a debacle that news outlets like CNBC, Forbes, CNN, and the BBC brought the issue to light to the general public.
You can blame whoever you like...
- EA for creating this issue to begin with.
- News outlets for bringing this issue to the attention of the mass public.
- Politicians and public officials (who are not elected by the general public depending on the country) that want to prevent similar occurrences from happening again in the future.
There is nothing you can really about it other than wait and see what the outcome will be. You can scream and rage all you want if it makes you feel better, but in the end that will have no affect on the outcome. If you live in one of the 4 or 5 US states looking into creating legislation to regulate lootboxes, then you can call / send an email to those politicians involved regarding your concern about how the potential legislation is going to affect STO. But I suspect your concerns will fall on deaf ears.
Sorry about that, I guess I edited out the wrong user id.
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And the point which is being missed, is that Christopher Lee does not represent people living outside of America. He is not my democratically elected representative. Nor is he the democratically elected representative of players in Belgium, or Germany. Yet his actions, affect us as well.
Do American citizens actually need 'protecting'? Or should they be allowed the autonomy to make their own decisions and live by the consequences of such? Again, this is not kindergarten...
You're mistaking my attempts to be clear and emphatic (about the points I'm trying to convey) as 'screaming and raging'. The screaming and raging, will come if this nonsense succeeds, and LockBoxes get outlawed in Europe, and if Cryptic either doesn't react, or fails to react in a particular way, and thus has to shut down because it loses a significant section of its playerbase. There will be rage and screams from those unable to play the game any more, and at it's core, will be the frustration of knowing that they did nothing to try and prevent it.
But not me. Sure, I'll be hellishly disappointed, but I'll at least be able to tell myself that I at least made suggestions to my community to try and preserve it.
What have you suggested, which Cryptic may or may not consider?
Have you actually suggested anything constructive at all just been an armchair commentator?
And if what we post here makes no difference to what Cryptic is going to do, then I'm not going to waste my time arguing about it, because that it will make no difference either.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I've made my suggestions/recommendations for a way in which Lock Boxes could be revised to not be gambling. I'm not prepared to waste my time defending/discussing those suggestions/recommendations. I've said my piece, I'm satisfied that I've done what I can, so I'm recusing myself from the discussion.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth